Live at the Weitzman: How To Strengthen Our Democracy, With Governor Shapiro
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Rise and shine, fever dreamers. I'm Sammy Sage, and this is the American Fever Dream podcast presented by Betches News, where we explore the absurdities and oddities of our uniquely American experience. Today, V is away on some official business at the NATO summit, and I am visiting the birthplace of American democracy, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, with my co-author, Emily Amick, to launch our new book, Democracy in Retrograde, How to Make Changes Big and Small in Our Country and Our Lives, out July 9th, wherever you buy your books.

So if you've been asking the question, what do we do about this election? Democracy, our repro rights. Democracy in retrograde is full of answers, as well as explanations as to how we got into the situation in the first place and how we can get ourselves out of it.

On today's episode, I'm excited to be joined by an elected official who has been on the front lines of fighting for our democracy, and especially to keep the 2024 election free, fair, and peaceful. Can we add that as a condition? So coming to you from the Weizmann Museum on Historic Independence Mall in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, I am proud to welcome Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro.

Good to be with you, Sammy. Thank you. Thank you so much. It is such a refreshing moment to be speaking with you. You are really a very hopeful official. I think that people are really inspired by you. I know your constituents are really moved by your governing and enjoy having you as their representative. So wanted to start there. But I'm wondering, how did you celebrate your July 4th weekend? Oh, man. Well, it was a little different than, you know, I think most people's July 4th.

We're still finalizing our state budget. So I was running back and forth in negotiating sessions, but managed to sneak away from Harrisburg to go to my hometown parade,

to walk in the Glenside 4th of July parade for the 21st year. It was an amazing time to be out there. I started as an aspiring state representative, and to be able to go there now as governor is pretty cool. So did that, grilled some burgers and stuff with my family, and then head right back to Harrisburg. So are you like the star of the parade now? Have you been promoted now that you're the governor? We get some cheers now. Yeah, it's...

It's pretty good. Okay, that's good. That's good. Do you spend any time thinking about the election or you just block that out all weekend? No, man, you can't block it out. It's on people's minds. And look, I mean, I understand that there's some trauma folks are going through right now and a whole lot of worry that they're dealing with.

But I'm also happy people are paying attention to our democracy. They're paying attention to the election. They're thinking about their role in this process. And so I appreciate that. I enjoy hearing from people about it. And, you know, this is a moment where they're worried. And I'm absorbing a lot of that and listening, trying to reassure them. But I'm just happy they're engaged. Absolutely. I mean, so what do you tell people when they tell you they're worried? What's your response to that? Well,

Look, I think you can't argue with someone's emotions. If someone's worried, they can be worried. I think what my job is to do is address the worry through concrete acts, whether it's a policy, whether it's a decision I make, whether it's a position of advocacy, political or governmental. And for them to be able to hear that, learn about that, and maybe that reduces some of their worry.

Like the idea of looking at someone who expresses their worry and saying, no, no, don't be worried. I don't think that's fair to them. And I don't think it's a responsible approach. And so I'm just trying to confront people, meet them where they are, not confront them like angrily, but like meet them where they are, talk to them, absorb how they're feeling, and then address it with some concrete things we're doing to try and make their lives a little bit better and address the work.

Definitely. I mean, I think that validating people is sort of a lost art from many of our elected officials. And there's this sort of tendency to sort of rebuff people and make them feel like their worries aren't valid.

A lot of people ask me, who do you think is going to win the election? Do you know? It would be amazing if you could tell us. I would make a lot of money betting in Vegas if I did. Let me just say that. No, I don't know. But what I tell people is it doesn't really matter what I think. What really matters is what you and everyone else does. Correct.

And I think that that is a big reframe for people. But, you know, then we'll get the response, you know, like, OK, so like I'm one vote or I live in a state that doesn't matter, which is a fallacy. I think we can we've all sort of started to realize.

But, you know, you're obviously in a rare position of influence and ability to actually affect policy when it comes to election safety. So can you tell us about what have you actually been doing proactively in order to prepare for the election? And should some other states take your lead? Well, look, we are in the sort of swingiest of all swing states.

Pennsylvania is known as the Keystone State. I think this might be a rare point of agreement between the Republican and Democratic candidates that as Pennsylvania goes, probably so goes the nation when it comes to this presidential race. I have, you know, really a serious responsibility as governor to

to make sure that, again, we have a free and fair, safe and secure election. So those people you're talking to, when they decide to vote, whether they vote by mail or they vote at the election booth on Election Day, that their vote is counted, that the will of the people is respected, and that they have a safe experience when they go vote.

That is my primary responsibility. Now, listen, I have views on the election. I have choices that I would make. And I'm sure I'm very happy to share my views on it. But I will tell you that my responsibility, though, as governor is to make sure that whatever your views are, whoever you're going to vote for, you have access to the ballot and that your vote is counted.

Do you have any, I guess, insight into what voters or poll workers can expect, whether in real life or online, when it comes to what they should look out for in the election? You know, it's not...

beyond the it's not beyond comprehension that there will be some interference or bad actors looking to influence it so what are you on the defensive about specifically or telling voters to or poll workers to be on the defensive about we really kind of experienced something new in 2020 serious attacks on our poll workers republican and democrat alike people from rural urban and suburban counties and those attacks came squarely from donald trump and his enablers

The idea that the local person in your community who gives of their time on Election Day would be attacked by someone who wants to be president of the United States, it's crazy. But this is the reality that we're in. So rather than kind of wringing my hands over it, what I did as attorney general,

what I'm continuing to do as governor now is formalize a process where we can protect those poll workers and protect the will of the people. I created a task force that is overseen by my secretary of the Commonwealth, the person who runs our elections. His name is Al Schmidt, by the way, a Republican. I'm a Democrat because I think when you're protecting democracy, that should really be a

bipartisan, if not nonpartisan activity. I mean, we saw in 2020 some of the individuals who ultimately stood up for certifying the actual election results were Republicans. Many of those got voted out or kind of smeared or kicked out of the party, so to speak. But

The fact is they stood up. And one of my bigger concerns is that there won't be those people this time or those people won't be trusted. So it is actually good to hear that you have a trusted Republican who is not an election denier in that position. And by the way, Al was one of the people who was attacked by the former president. His family was attacked. They had death threats and they needed police protections.

Now, I didn't lose any elections. I asked him to come work with me in my administration, and he agreed. And he's an extraordinary public servant. He leads a task force that is made up of election workers like him.

law enforcement lawyers, including my general counsel, Jen Selber, who went through this experience with me as attorney general. So she's got a ton of experience in this area of ensuring we've got a free and fair, safe and secure election. And then we're tied in with local, state, and federal leaders and law enforcement officials to make sure that everybody's on the same page.

And our goal is not to advocate for one candidate or the other. Our goal is to simply make sure we've got a free and fair, safe and secure election. And whether you choose to vote by mail or you choose to vote in person on election day, your ballot's going to be counted. So you instituted, I think, probably one of the most helpful means of increasing voter turnout, which is automatic voter registration. Right, right. Seems like that should be something that...

Everyone should want common sense. But how did you get that passed with a split legislature? And how would you advise, I guess, other governors or state officials to get that passed in their states? Well, you mentioned split legislature. I'm actually...

literally the only governor in the nation with a divided legislature. And so that means you got to get Republican votes and Democratic votes to get anything done. And we've gotten a lot of stuff done. Actually, our three letters that we live by are GSD, get stuff done. Yeah. It's a family podcast. So it's a PG podcast. But

In the case of automatic voter registration, we actually didn't need to pass a law. I had the authority as governor to do it, and we did it. Now, when you go and you get your driver's license, you update your driver's license, you do anything at the DMV, you are automatically registered to vote. Pick your own party, any of that stuff, or you can be nonpartisan if you want, but you are registered to vote. And the idea there is that we want to break down the barriers to entry. If you're a legal eligible person,

you know, to vote, we want to make it easier for you. And for too long, politicians erected barriers, making it too hard for people to participate. I think, by the way... They're still trying. Yeah, because it protected the status quo. I want the people to participate because my fundamental view is that your democracy is strengthened when more people participate. You know, we're here in...

Philadelphia, the birthplace of our democracy at Independence Hall, right here in the cradle of liberty, near the Liberty Bell. We should have done this at the Liberty Bell. We should have. Right underneath. This is literally where it all started. And if we're going to perfect our union, if we're going to strengthen our democracy, we need people to participate. And that's why we wanted automatic voter registration to make it easier for people to do that.

What do you make of the fundamental contradiction that, yes, that is what we all sort of were taught, that democracy is about everyone participating. And I think now we're realizing that some of that was a little bit whitewashed and that it really wasn't about everyone participating and that there are a lot of people still to this day who are fighting even harder to make sure that not everyone is participating. So, you know, you look into a

a state that has a Republican governor and state legislature. How would you say that people can get better access in those states? Because they're really, you know, there's obviously an effort to stop that. I mean, look, take a look at the progress that we've made in this nation when it comes to voter participation.

For a long time, Black Americans couldn't vote, right? We made progress there. For a long time, women couldn't vote. I mean, we're only celebrating about 100 years since women earned the right to vote in this nation. That's crazy. That's part of why it's so scary. Right. And so we made progress by people rising up, demanding more, seeking justice, and seeking opportunity. And the way you get justice and opportunity is at the ballot box.

by electing your mayor, your governor, your congresspeople, your senator, ultimately your president. And so what I would say to anybody living in one of these states like Georgia, as an example, where they passed voter suppression laws or any of these other states where you've seen it, Florida is incredibly restrictive, is vote them out. I mean, vote Ron DeSantis out. Vote Greg Abbott out. These are people who literally spend their time

figuring out how to take away people's freedoms, whether it's the freedom for you to vote or the freedom for you to be able to govern your own body.

And that, to me, is an anathema to what we tried to build here 248 years ago when we declared independence here in Philadelphia. The idea behind that declaration is we wanted more freedom. And now you've got governors across this country who are trying to restrict your freedom, your bodily freedom, your right to vote, your right to marry who you love, your right to be able to start a family.

That's what's happening across this country. And the best way to address that is by showing up at the polls and voting those people out. Absolutely. Well, I think ultimately some of them do it because they can't win because if they're honest about their platform and then let everyone weigh in-

They will be voted out and they're aware of that. I mean, like you said, there's a lot of time spent giving thought to how they will suppress the vote. And for Greg Abbott, just in Texas, basically is using the ADA to shut down polling places because he's saying that they're not ADA compliant or federally compliant. So he's actually using something that...

is a pretty progressive legislation in order to create the opposite effect. It's just very sinister. It is. And think about it. These are elected leaders.

who are afraid of the electorate. They're afraid that people are going to express their views because if they do, they know they're going to be out on their asses and they're not going to have jobs anymore. And so they erect these barriers to entry, protecting their own butts and keeping people from participating in our democracy. And that is what we got to rise up against. And we're going to have another test of that here in 2024 because those governors are

They're largely doing it at the behest of Donald Trump. They're doing it because Donald Trump doesn't want you to control your own body. Donald Trump doesn't want you to be able to have the right to vote. Interestingly enough,

Dude was real tough on felons voting and then all of a sudden he's a convicted felon. Now he's trying to convince DeSantis to give felons the right to vote again in Florida. The ironies. They are completely and utterly full of shit when it comes to patriotism in our democracy. And it is on all of us to rise up against that. And the best way we can do that is by channeling all our energy into voting. Absolutely. See, they want all the power, but they don't want the responsibility.

is ultimately what it comes down to. They want to be able to not have to be accountable to their voters.

Just going back to, you know, you were talking about having a split legislature and bipartisanship is pretty rare these days. But you've been successful in working with a divided legislature. And I think that, you know, you've been passing substantive legislation and a budget that is going to get passed, we think. Can you kind of explain the nuts and bolts of how you are able to engineer that to happen so that maybe some people can model that? Because I think what gets lost in all this is that this is

you're governing so that you can actually affect people's lives, not just to sit around in a suit. Yeah. So look, for those who aren't familiar with how Pennsylvania is working, but you follow politics in general, there are two split legislatures in the entire country, the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, our legislature and the Congress of the United States. They don't get a whole lot done in the Congress of the United States. We have figured out how to do it in Pennsylvania. And I think it largely goes to, to a few things.

One, my general view that no matter where you go in Pennsylvania, rural, urban, suburban, Republican, Democrat community, folks basically want the same four things, right? They want a really good quality school for their kid. They want a safe community to live in. They want economic opportunity and they want their freedoms protected, right? Now that kind of looks a little different every community you go to, but those are the four basic things, right?

And so what I try and do with Republicans and Democrats alike is just focus on those things, is let them know that the extremes are never going to pass.

And so let's focus on those core things for our families all across Pennsylvania and for people all across Pennsylvania. And we're able to bring lawmakers together to fund more law enforcement than at any other time in our Commonwealth's history, but coupling that with money for community nonviolence organizations, violence prevention organizations.

We put more resources into public schools than at any other time in our Commonwealth's history and fully funded universal free breakfast. So kids, no matter what school they go to, start their day with a full belly. We're creating jobs and economic opportunities in communities that have oftentimes been forgotten, especially some of our rural areas. And so focusing on those common sense things,

And then when it comes time to negotiating, listening to both sides, understanding, okay, this Republican lawmaker, we may not agree on our politics, but he needs a win.

And you know what? The Democratic lawmaker, he needs a win too, or she needs a win too. And so how do we find a way for her to get a win and him to get a win and help Pennsylvania move forward? As opposed to what we typically do in our politics today, which is just figure out how to screw the other guy and fight with them. And then say, well, I disagree with you on this one issue, so I'm not going to talk to you about anything else. And that's really dangerous. Do you have any thoughts on why

this is able to work in the Pennsylvania legislature, but not in Congress? Is it the national stage that people are on? Is it the fact that there are cameras in every... I mean, look, we got cameras, we got politics. I think I'm really dedicated to trying to figure out how to bring people together and get stuff done. And importantly, we've got Republican and Democratic partners who are willing to do the same. And I give them a lot of credit and we don't agree on everything. But

The fact is people deal with one another respectfully and agree that we've got to figure out ways to make progress together. Is it like a cultural thing, like an organizational culture? You know, so some companies have like a positive culture, some have like a really cutthroat culture. And I think Congress has a pretty bad culture. You could argue that in the legislature, there's just as much partisanship, but there's

What I try and do is when we ultimately get the leaders together around the table in my office or on the phone or whatever, is create an environment where people feel that they can trust the conversation. Nothing's going to leak. Nobody's going to go run out and say that you said something.

And create an environment where people can kind of speak freely and honestly. Even if it's not something I want to hear, it's still better to have that open, honest dialogue. And so that's the culture I've tried to create. And again, I have to stress, I've got partners who are willing to engage that way also. And that helps us make progress.

That really is the spirit of democracy. That's what it's always been, is people hashing it out. It's impossible for two people to have totally, or two people, let alone hundreds of thousands of people, to have total agreement on all of these issues. By the way, we shouldn't have total agreement. We're all different people. We're registered in different parties. We have different philosophical views. The key is making sure that your different view...

doesn't ultimately make you not listen to the other person on things where you might be able to find some common ground, or doesn't make you attack the other person politically. So that's what I think we're figuring out how to do and do pretty well in Pennsylvania. So just to get cheesy for a sec before we close out. The fun part of the program. Not that this hasn't been fun. No, I've been very fun. It's okay. I know you're a politician. That's what you got to stop. So what inspires you about democracy?

It's obviously, I think it's hard to get people to understand this abstraction of like what would disappear if it were to go. And part of what I think has been helpful to get people more engaged is helping them understand what those contours are in our lives that might be invisible. So can you talk a little bit about that? You know, I'm inspired by the history and what our founders set forth here in Pennsylvania.

I'm inspired by the progress that we have made over 248 years. And what inspires me most is not elected leaders, with some exceptions. Abraham Lincoln is a great example of that. Any others? William Penn, our founder. Ben Franklin, right? But what I'll say is, if you carefully look at the chapters of our American story, where we have made progress...

It hasn't necessarily been people with titles next to their name. It's been ordinary people, you know, rising up, demanding more, seeking justice, looking for a brighter future for them, for their kids, for their people. That's the progress that we've made thanks to people being willing to mobilize and organize and help make advancements. That inspires me.

And so as governor, I recognize I've got a responsibility to lead, but I also have a responsibility to understand where folks are and help them lead themselves too and bring them along in this process and have them be engaged. You know, Dr. King was an extraordinary leader, but when Dr. King showed up at Girard College right down the street here, down Broad Street, Philadelphia,

He made progress on educational equity, not just because he was here, but because thousands of people showed up to hear him and be inspired by him to go and make change. I love that about our democracy. Ordinary people doing extraordinary things. I agree with that.

Thank you so much for your time, Governor. This has been such an inspiring and wonderful conversation. And I know that we will all be on the front lines with you fighting for our democracy. Sounds great. Thanks for having me. I enjoyed it very much. Thank you. Thank you. Until next time, I'm Sammy Sage, and this is the American Fever Dream podcast. American Fever Dream is produced and edited by Samantha Gatzik. Social media by Candace Meniga and Bridget Schwartz.

Be sure to follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Betches News and follow me, Sammy Sage at Sammy and V at Under the Desk News. And of course, send us your emails to AmericanFeverDream at Betches.com.