AAA 773: Are Kingdom, Re:Zero and Rainbow actually good?
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Hello everyone and welcome to episode 773 of the Anime Addicts Anonymous podcast. My name is Mason. Mason's my name and talking anime and making your addiction worse is all of our game.

are being my two co-hosts, Caroline and Emery, both coming in looking sharp, looking ready to go, looking like they cleaned up their room since last episode. Wow. Way to air my not dirty laundry that you would see in the background, Mason. Crazy how nature do that. You know, you're partially right. I did clean up. I did hide another basket of laundry this episode. She did it, but she didn't do it for us, Baka. She's better at that. Baka. Yeah.

And Emery, who's always on point, I think, maybe. There's no dog in the background yet.

Yeah. No, she's going to come, I think, at some point. And there's a cat around here somewhere. But yeah, so far doing so good. But see, I like expertly like tuck everything back in these closets so you can't see the chaos. Out of sight, out of mind. That's what I always say. Twitch chat is yelling at me that it might have stopped. Hopefully it's working. Worst case, we try to stream every Sunday live at 5 p.m. Eastern. Sometimes...

Sometimes our computers say otherwise, but hopefully we're doing all right, and hopefully you're doing all right wherever you're listening to us. This is the podcast. It's usually a little bit better than this, but hey, sometimes the weeks be like that. But I think we have a fun one this week. We are going to talk about all the shows that we have been watching in

As well as a review of one show that we all definitely all watched, I hope. Maybe. Maybe not. Which is Orb on the Movements of the Earth. We'll get a nice, juicy, big ol' steakburger review of that one. So if you like what we do around here, you know, support us on Patreon, on our website, aaaapodcast.com. Hang out with us on Discord. We always got events going on. And it's just a really good place to be and get indoctrinated into the cult. I mean, really.

Yeah, no, no, that's what I meant. So any thoughts, any things to shout out before we get this big bad boy rolling? Yeah, as you mentioned, we are available on many social media platforms. But just to optimize our presence on those social media platforms, we would really appreciate it if you take part in a little poll we have right now on our Discord. Just click on the social feed channel at the very top and you'll see a very simple poll. Just subscribe.

select the platforms that you use the most and it'll be very helpful for our amazing social media manager kaiden so uh please check that out on our discord yeah and with that let's get to the big news of the week it's time for big news of the week

So, Mitsugi put on hair, and, you know, to me it's not the biggest thing yet, but I think a lot of people are interested in it, and that is the nominees for the 2025 Crunchyroll Anime Awards. So you can go on to Crunchyroll and vote for the best of the best of last year, and more kind of sort of, you never know with their new rules. Have you guys looked at the nominees? Have you guys voted? Do you guys have any...

Hot ideas or gossip about this stuff. I don't typically take part in polls or, sorry, anime award shows that don't matter compared to us. So there you have that. But I am always interested to see what exactly they deem to be the most great anime in every year. But the rules are so confusing, I just stopped pretending to understand them.

Yeah, I've run into the same thing. I have not voted yet, but I think they're back to normal anime of the year, like calendar year, January to end of December. But it's really hard for me to keep track because there was that little blip of time where they didn't want to include fall. And then when they included it, which I think was last year, it was this big conglomerate of people that said, okay,

I hope that Freerun continues to just get the nomination or get the votes, I guess, in this case. I think it's worthy of being considered anime at the end. One thing I do think is interesting with the Crunchyroll Awards is that they have a list of the presenters for the ceremony. And the two top mentioned people in this ceremony are Finn Wolfhard and Gatton Matarazzo from Stranger Things. Like, really? Yeah.

Love them, but very random. Yeah, I mean, I guess good for the awards. I mean, this is as much as I like Begredge, Crunchyroll and everything they represent sometimes. You know, this is kind of the biggest foot in the door of having a big industry event, getting somewhat big name people, whether they be

actors, actresses, different producers, directors even to get a little more involved, I think helps visibility wise with just making this little niche medium of ours less niche-y. And, you know, anime is growing, it's getting bigger every year, and Crunchyroll is kind of the best avenue of getting that into the biggest of spotlights, even if it is

still has some room for improvement. Like these nominees are very like every category has pretty much the same six copy pasted into them. So we'd like to see a little variety. You never know how the masses are going to vote, but if you care enough, you can go vote on Crunchyroll and we'll see who wins and we'll probably make a big old fuss about it in the future. But yeah,

At the end of the day, it's a fun award show, so I can't get that salty about it. What else you guys got for big news? I couldn't really find anything I really found interesting. So take it away, Emery.

I was going to say, I do have something. It's a little bit small. So for those who don't know, we have these six month bets going on, not just in the Discord, but then we'll have episodes about it. And so one of the bets was about the band Creepy Nuts. And because of that, every week I look for Creepy Nuts in the news. And I'm

Lo and behold, they have released a new album called Legion. And if you are, you know, a Patreon and you know, want to get those show notes, I do have the link to that article in the show notes. But I'm really excited for Creepy Notes. I love to see that they're putting together the album. I know it feels like a lot of Japanese bands nowadays, like they just have to have an

anime opening that not only takes off, but is part of a really good anime in order to get recognition. And so this just made me happy that they were able to put something together. Obviously, they have their two really big hits, the bling, bang, bang, boom, and then the Dandedon theme as well.

A tanoke, I think is how you say that. What I thought was very interesting in reading this article is they are tapping into a variety of musical engineers that are outside of Japan to develop unique sound designs, which is great because Creepy Nuts is, I would say, known for their very unique sound designs that kind of come out of nowhere or misplaced or sound like they are part of a Nintendo game. And so...

I just continue to hope that they gain popularity, that maybe they'll eventually come to America. I'd like to see them if they tour here. So, yeah. What are your thoughts? Would you guys see them in concert? Yeah. I think they came for Anime NYC last year, and I didn't get a chance to see them, but I'm really jealous. I probably wouldn't see them because I'm...

I care about instrumentation from a physical sense that I can see people playing more than the DJ electronic side of things. Like, I definitely get the appeal of that, and I would love for Creepy Nuts to, like, work with the guys in clipping to make some absurd, crazy backdrop for their songs. Like, I appreciate the sonic diversity, but I just don't usually go to those kinds of concerts. So I'm just not a rapper is what I'm trying to say. That'd be cool, but...

I think the crowd would just pop off. You know, it would just be a fun environment. Oh, the crowd would be nuts. That would be such a fun show to go to, no doubt. But it's just not my thing. I'm not cool enough. Yeah. So that's... I know it's not a whole lot of big news, but...

relatively it seemed like more of a quiet week for us yeah did they talk at all about like the process of making a song like for a piece of media as a like making a song is already difficult enough as it is let alone making lyrics or whatever for a piece of work you know what i'm saying

Yeah, they didn't go into those details because this is an album that's supposed to be reaching out past the anime genre. They talked about how the songs reflected very autobiographical material. So things that have happened in their lives, lyrics that are really in tune with what they've experienced.

So I didn't touch on that in the beginning because I was obviously more interested to hear that they are getting musical engineers for, say, like Kendrick Lamar and things like that, names that are very, very recognizable to our generation. But I am hoping that, again, with this recognition, maybe we will get more articles like that because I would really like to know how they –

came up like for the dawn to dawn theme how did you come up with the the weird pikmin noise is what i think we've been calling it on the discord how did you decide when you wanted to put in a more ballad section and like coming up with the various i don't know timbres and and tempos and things so

Fingers crossed. I think this is a start. The article was in Billboard, which is, again, very mainstream. So I just am very, very happy that they continue to get recognition. And I'm hoping maybe fans of theirs who are not into anime will be a bigger thing so that I can talk about Creepy Nuts, even though it sounds really ridiculous to say their band name out loud. Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

Such is life. Well, anyway, thank you for the big news. We'll have more for that in the news break. But for now, I think we can jump on over to our main topic, which is the always fun, always diverse pseudo recommendation section of what have we been watching where we just go through all the shows and

That we've been watching for some reason or another. Sometimes it's enjoyment. Sometimes it's a good old-fashioned hate watch. Sometimes it's just morbid curiosity. And I think there's a couple that you guys have been excited to talk about. So who wants to go first? Who is very passionate about getting something out there? Because we always run out of time on this segment. For some reason, I can't complete the shows that I really want to talk about. Because I could have completed...

A show that Emery also has on her list, but I technically don't have it completed right now, but we can still talk about it. And that would be Toilet Bound Hanako-kun season two. And not exactly the show that you would expect us to get excited about, but pretty good, I'd say.

I really wanted it to pass when we were doing impressions and I was the sole person who voted for it to pass. I love this show. I love the art. It is so beautiful. And the story just sits very well with me. I love the rumors idea that are coming to life in this school, the deeper and more dark secrets that are

are developing and both uh caroline and i talked about this and how it's we're gonna try to do our very best to step around some of this because we don't want to give spoilers i also have not finished this i think i'm on episode eight or yeah i'm on 10 um or i just finished 10.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm it's just the main difference being like season one, very episodic into getting like all of the, you know, different spirits of the school and all their stories and all that. But this season, it's surrounding a a little plot discovery. I don't I don't think it got brought up in the first season, did it? I think this is all new this season, right? This discovery. Yeah.

Yeah, the Discovery is brand new from my knowledge. I was surprised by it. Now it has been however many years. Yes, I was a little bit frustrated getting into the second season initially because there were some people that I'm like, wait a minute, what happened with them again? I can't remember. But, you know, once I did a little Wikipedia-ing and, you know, watched a little bit more, I was like, okay, now I kind of remember. Yeah.

But yeah, season two is much more following this plot thread, which is welcomed. And because of this revelation that happened towards the beginning of the season, we see a lot... Because Hanako-kun is like... We kind of see him as the mischievous kind of character in the first season, but now he's getting a little bit more into the...

Not necessarily dark, but it's a little bit more immoral. Or arguably immoral for the second season, which adds a bit of interest, I think. Agreed. Agreed. I think that it's good when you don't have a character who is just the good guy, but mischievous. You have some darkness to his character, which is making it...

I think making him a more unreliable narrator of sorts, even though he's not our truly main character. Yeah. So almost done with the season. Still looking pretty good. Hoping that we'll get a sequel season because obviously whatever is going to get resolved, it's not going to resolve the interest that we have in the second season. So hopefully we'll get more after that. I think they already announced the sequel. Oh, yeah? All right. Cool. Yeah.

I could be wrong. It was in the deluge of sequels that came out last week. So don't fact check me, but please actually fact check me and let me know if I'm right. But I think more Toilet Bound is on the way. Awesome. I'm happy for you guys. Should we have actually explained what this show is at the start? Because we just didn't.

It's so hard when it's a season two. But yeah, let's see if we can find a brief summary even. I don't know. I mean, I think we can just generally say that it takes place in a school where there are a lot of rumors about the school wonders and the spirits. And because of those rumors, these spirits actually do exist, including the titular Hanako-kun, who is usually seen as a woman spirit, is actually a...

little boy that was killed like 50 years or died 50 years ago or something like that bound to a toilet uh and makes friends with our main character nene and they solve spiritual mysteries together basically that's a great way of putting it and she is very concerned about her large ankles that look like daikons like running jokes like that can get pretty old so far this one has not gotten old is how pissed off she gets about her ankles

They sprinkle it in instead of having it be every single episode hitting you over the head. It like pops up every so often. You're like, oh, OK, that's a delight. Or they retell it in a new way. The episode I'm on has a certain wonder admiring her ankles and questioning how it does make me think like if these characters existed in real life, what would that look like? Because it would probably be kind of frightening. Ankles of that size.

And who would you recommend this show to? Like if someone's like, oh, like this sounds interesting. That's a fun little show. It's nothing like, you know, it's not a must watch show, but I would say it has a lot of style, visual style. And yeah, if you're interested in kind of like some comedic mysteries shows that this is a good choice.

Yeah, I was going to say the same thing is it is a very visually appealing show. But as I know, we've talked about previously based on it's just not your cup of tea. So it's not something I'd obviously recommend to somebody who appreciates your genre. It's more in that mystery realm of what do you like to watch?

Do you like a Nancy Drew book? Do you like to solve a good, somewhat cozy mystery? And then if it goes down a darker path, I would equate this to Shadowhouse, which is another one that I believe both Caroline and I both really enjoyed. I'd even say maybe a little bit of the Mirko Chan style. There's this genre of sort of horror, mostly mystery elements to it that still has these comedic elements and has...

very chibi it's a light horror comedy mystery as opposed to something that's more like a pure mystery even though it's also spiritual like an inspector or something which is much more like multi-episode arcs trying to like detective your way down instead of school hijinks with a little bit of spookiness yeah do you like Knives Out you might like this but it's so gorgeous that it's worth watching just for the art style at least a couple episodes yeah yeah just give it a shot

Because the name itself does not really do it justice. It's a funny name, but I can see a lot of people being like, I'm not going to watch Toilet Bound Hanako-kun, you know? Yeah, that sounds like an Adult Swim gag thing more than anything else. Well, Emery, you have a lot on your list. Do you want to go next? Yeah, I will touch on mine real quick, or one of mine, because I want to hit on it. Devil May Cry, the honorary anime, not anime mention.

And I reference it because we've talked about what is anime, what isn't. And I believe that this is from the Castlevania producers. So technically not falling under the traditional anime standards.

Definition, is it anime to me? Absolutely, because you guys know I'm about the vibes. This is passing the anime vibe check. And this has been big dumb fun to watch. Is it the best? No. But do you want to, like if you are a shonen head and if you have played the games at all, which my husband has, so he is pointing out every single Easter egg and there is a lot of them. And it's not something in the Marvel universe where they hit you over the head. It's just

quietly put in there. Like there's a character from Devil May Cry 2, Louisa, I think or something, who's randomly thrown in there as one of the

demon devil hunters. But it's just been a lot of fun. I think the Devil May Cry games are fun. I am actually more of a Bayonetta fan. So I've been looking for any Bayonetta references for those who don't know. The Devil May Cry games and the Bayonetta games are made by, I think, the same creator or the same company. And so there's always been these loose ties that say that they

share a universe. There's never been anything super concrete, but you'll notice certain items from the Bayonetta universe making their way into the Devil May Cry universe and vice versa. I thought, I think that they approached this the right way. They just approached this big dumb fun. Let's get Johnny to voice Dante. Let's just go for the

2000s punk silliness. And that's what's going to get fans on board. And instead of going, maybe the first Devil May Cry anime, I think was trying to lean too much into the seriousness. And that's just not what these games are about. Is DMC platinum? I didn't think so. Because I would strongly agree. I much prefer Bayonetta to Devil May Cry. And not just because mommy issues. Like,

No, Bayonetta is just... I just love its style and sass, but both of them are very similar with absurd combos, that kind of tongue-in-cheek humor, and stuff like that. But they definitely feel like they're in the same universe, so I could see that crossover being a thing. I just...

I didn't think Platinum did both. But yeah, I watched one episode of this and I'm like, I'm good. I got it. Like, I think I, as someone who's not a huge Devil May Cry fan, I appreciated what they're doing. But you know me, you know, if I can't mark it on my Annie list, why bother watching it? If a man watches an animated cartoon in the forest and no one's around to mark it as completed, does it even count? Yeah.

To answer your question, it's the same creator. You are right. It is in Platinum Games. Devil May Cry is a different developer. Capcom and Ninja Theory, it looks like out here. But the creator did Devil May Cry, Resident Evil 2, and Bayonetta. And in episode three, which you wouldn't know, unfortunately, Mason, for only watching one episode, they do make a Resident Evil joke. And it is just a very brief throw line of like, this is...

This is one of the worst jobs you've given me. Is it worse than Raccoon City? Yeah, exactly. That's like a perfect little Easter egg. There's always been that overlap between them and Capcom, but glad to see it's not just they're having fun with it. And that's what's important, especially in a show like this.

Exactly. So thank you for letting me reference my anime. It's just been big, big dumb fun. And I'm glad that one of the few things we can agree on is Bayonetta. It's just so good. It's just so much fun. If only we had Limp Bizkit in Bayonetta, that would be peak. But unfortunately, it's relegated to this.

Let's see. I want to talk about a big old series that I am doing some due diligence on. I'm putting my hours of life on the line, listener, so you don't have to. And I am trying to figure out if Kingdom is actually good. Have either of you seen slash heard about Kingdom? Heard about Kingdom. Never seen it. Couldn't tell you what it's really about.

I have not seen it either. Yeah. So Kingdom is the word epic gets thrown around way too willy nilly these days. But Kingdom is a truly epic manga. It tells a fictionalized story of the warring states period of ancient China. And there's like hundreds and hundreds of chapters, like 75 volumes. It's a juggernaut of the manga world. And the anime adaptation, which currently spans...

I think like five seasons and has multiple entries in like the top 50 on my anime list is widely regarded to be phenomenal. You just need to make it through the parts that aren't so good, namely the first couple seasons of Kingdom. So you see all this acclaim and love for the series, especially in these later seasons. But how much of that, I wonder, is it actually quality content or has...

the first two seasons just filtered out everyone who isn't already in love with it. And all that's left to rank them are people who are diehard fanboys and are thus inflating the score. So I'm doing a big kingdom watch where I am going through and I will at the end of this long journey, tell you if this series is good. And as of right now,

I'm pretty much done with season one, which takes up 38 episodes. So I've already committed many months of my life watching the show. Currently, as of season one, which obviously is not the part that is rated well, Kingdom is awful. It is terrible. It is dog caca. Really? Yeah.

I think people who like later seasons of Kingdom will agree with me. I think it's widely considered to be not good and the manga, the much superior avenue. And you just you put your head down and you either skip this part or read the manga or experience it in some other way because it's not good. And I agree. It's it's it's so it's laughably bad from the writing to the pacing, the

to the voice acting, especially in the dub. I watched a couple episodes in the dub and it would make Raggedy turn tail and flee. It is atrocious is. Oh, that sounds like it sounds like a challenge for Raggedy. It is not hate watch bad, but it is really tough. And it's, it's one of those shows where like a new character will get introduced and it's like, ah,

Ah, it is me, Pylon, the God of War. And then it's a minute of everyone saying, oh, did he say Pylon? Yes, Pylon. I heard it's him in the corridor. Is he the God of War? Yes, indeed. The God of War? You don't say. And it just it's bad. It's really bad. So as of right now, as of season one, Kingdom is not worth it. Kingdom is bad anime. Don't watch Kingdom. There you go. I just saved you a bunch of time.

Now, of course, no one cares at this point because everyone knew it was bad. So...

I will get back to you in a future installment with clear, objective, mason-crystalline eyes to let you know without any fanboyism or nostalgia or anything that would influence me if Kingdom is actually eventually worth the while. So stay tuned. More is coming, and I don't have high hopes. I think Mitsuki tried to watch Kingdom and had very similar opinions.

I think so, too. But I think a lot of it is just, oh, it looks bad. And it does look bad. It's awful CG. It's terrible framing. The directing is laughable. It is bad across multiple fronts. But I think a lot of people just say, oh, it looks bad. And they really don't give it the credit for how terribly written it is. And it just...

It's not recommendable in any way at any point right now. So I'm going to stick to it because someone needs to fully do this thing. It's like when people say, oh, One Piece is good. And it's like, yeah, but you've watched 800 episodes. Yeah. Like clearly you like it. Mason.

Mason, One Piece is good. I've tried multiple times and it's not bad. It's not Kingdom, that's for sure. Conclusively, One Piece is better than Kingdom for now, though, because there's studio shifts, director shifts. There's potential here, but we haven't got there yet. So...

I did just quickly message Raggedy and say, you know, can you watch Kingdom Dubbed? And he says he refuses because he's not going to watch half a dubbed show because the first half is dubbed. That's fair. Well, it's not like he would make it that far anyway. Sounds like a likely excuse.

Yeah. Like so often I've toyed around with the idea with like the people on this podcast, like we should dub a show. Like we should just pick something that's fun. It would be very fun. And it would be a blast for like us. But we know what show it is. It would be the golf thing. It has to be Birdie Wing. We're going to. It has to be Birdie Wing. I know. But like we would do it and we would have fun with it. And our.

And our dub, as us people being very unprofessional in so many ways, would clear beyond doubt the Kingdom dub. Like, that's how awful it is. Like, if this dub came out today, you would think it's AI. So we don't need to riff on it anymore. We're kicking something while it's down. But there you go. Kingdom season one, the certified bad. What's next? All right. I will follow that up with something else that is certified bad.

So bad. Okay, I see what we're doing. I see the train. Yeah, it's a two-core show. I only saw the first core, and it's so bad that I could not bring myself to finish it

But I did score it on Mal, which should tell you that it's bad. Because I typically don't score things on Mal if I don't finish them. Because I think that is only fair. But I could not help myself with this one. Probably because it is such an egregiously high score on Mal, I had to throw in my two cents, even if I could not say I saw all of it. So let's talk about Rainbow. Rainbow...

We watched it for Anime Club. What's Rainbow about? I don't actually think I know what Rainbow is about. I've never heard of this show before. But it has like... Boys that are in jail that are sad. Yeah, basically. We wanted to do a delinquent themed anime club and Rainbow got chosen. It has an 8.46 on MAL. That's pretty high.

That is most people think it's a nine or a 10. I would say like 50% of people think it's a nine or a 10 and the rest of it think it's not. That's a pretty high show.

This show is about seven boys who get sent to a reformatory... I think they would call it a reformatory school, but it's basically juvenile detention center. Back in the years following World War II. And it's so...

So the reason being, it is so on the nose with everything. All of the villains are like mustache twirling, ha ha ha, I'm a crazy man type of villain. There's nobody who is not like that that isn't a protagonist.

And it's so, and you could say like, okay, but that might be fun, right? No, because they are, while also doing like the mustache twirling thing, they're also sexually assaulting these boys and trying to murder them. So it's, it's just so much. So all these guys come into this reformatory school, juvenile delinquent detention center,

And they all get thrown into one cell together. There are like seven guys in this one cell, which is already kind of strange. And they meet like their senpai of the prison. And he beats them up like within minutes of meeting them, like calls them all losers, beats them all up. One guy against six. Yeah. And then immediately after that, he offers them a cigarette and he is now dead.

delinquent jesus they will fall on the sword for them like it and he's a completely different character for the rest of the show he is like the nice guy tries not to fight violence with violence he's like trying his best to get out of this prison and make a life for himself and the problem being the guard their their main security guard has a major beef with him um

Like his former cellmate commits suicide because the doctor of the prison is sexually assaulting him with help from the guard to make all this happen. So he commits suicide. He leaves a suicide note. Now our cell block Jesus has the note and they're afraid of it getting out. So they're like doing everything possible to kill him.

Yeah, so it's so much high-dose. Sorry, I'm just losing it over here. Just like self-advocate Jesus, delinquent Jesus and all. Caroline is just so angry with the show. Yeah.

And I'm just losing it. Anyone else remember prison school? Because that's all that's coming to mind. Is this the more serious prison school? Yes, that's what it is! Because people were saying that during Anime Club and I'm like, oh my god, you are correct. But even more sexual assault. Yeah. So it's dark, but it's also some of the goofiest things I've ever seen because the guard and the doctor are just that bad. They are just that...

incredibly evil characters. And so many things happen in this show, and I'm just like, how is it that you are overextending yourself trying to kill this one guy when they murder somebody else in the prison in cold blood, and they don't care, but they're trying their best to subtly murder cellblock Jesus so nobody finds out. But there also seems to be no oversight in this prison, so I'm wondering why. Um...

Yeah, so...

Eventually, like, actually, maybe I shouldn't be spoiling all this, but I think that's enough to just say that this show is terrible. It also has like this narrator that is like the boy's hearts pounded with respect for their senpai. And they go off into the night to search for a way out of this prison and blah, blah, blah. And like, I don't need to know that. I got that. Their hearts are pounding with love.

It's just, the narration is unnecessary. The characters are terrible. The situations are really strange. And beyond all that, it's serious subject matter. So why do I feel the need to laugh? It's not good. So I gave it a two. Wow. But the fact that this show has an 8.46 on Mal is a, it's a tragedy.

Yeah. I'll leave it at that. Wow. Well, there we go. I guess there were some hate watches along the way. I'll follow it up with my hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. Hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate. hate

I finished Honey Lemon Soda. If you remember, we, I think, had it on the list for impressions. It just didn't jive with anyone who I talked to. I do know that there is some love for this on the Discord, so I'm going to be

as gentle with my hate as possible. But I hate watched this with my best friend who recently moved to Japan. I'll just call her Sari Berry for the sake of this. And so we were both watching this. And it's just one of those hate watches where like, you just can't turn away because you're like, well, maybe it'll get better. It doesn't.

So this is about a girl who is considered a stone. I think her name is like Ishi... Ishimura? Her name literally means stone. And she, of course, falls in love with this guy with blonde hair who just...

I'm trying, I'm trying to gather my thoughts on this. He becomes her protector and by protector, he calls himself her guardian, I think it is. Essentially, he's a daddy figure. He's like, oh, I'll take her under my wing and I will help her to develop her own strength and her own wings. And I just really, really struggle with it because she does everything like making friends and everything else herself.

for the sake of him in the sense that, oh, he'll be proud of me and like, look at me take these baby steps and all of the characters around her exist solely to move the plot along. There is a section later on that I'm going to again, just for people really want to go check out the show. There is a moment where these bullies come in and need to explain a situation to another character.

from the street. Where were they? How did they get pulled in? How did they find these bullies in the middle of Tokyo? I don't know. But it just was a very frustrating show. And I personally think that if you are looking for a cute rom-com, if you're looking for something that makes your heart go doki doki, I have two very different examples. Skip and Loafer, which some people think is more slice of life than romance, I would say yes, but go watch it. It's amazing.

Or my dress up darling, which I think is a much, much better way of showing a woman or a girl who has agency, not just in her relationship or with her love interest, but like actually wants to do something unique with her talent, with her life. I just couldn't stand the main character of Honey Lemon Soda. Just not my thing. I think they're a better...

There are just so many better shows that you should go and watch. It sounds like a problematic relationship, which is not the best foundation to start off a romance. Exactly. Exactly. Just when you have somebody who essentially is like, yeah, I'm like her overseer. I'm like her daddy. I'm just watching her. Nope. Thank you. Especially like when you have that, which is fine to have, but without any commentary saying like,

hey beware this is not ideal if it's presented as like idealized and all the other characters just help funnel that to happen i could see that i i think i watched one episode of this and i am like i'm good but i would agree with your recommendations as being phenomenal must watches if you haven't seen like my love story yet which is like the goat of all romances yeah

Another great one. So there you go. That was my hate watch for probably this last season. Okay. Do we keep the player hater club going? Moderately. Moderate hate watch. Actually, not that bad of a show. But one that's much beloved. You've probably heard of it. ReZero. Season three. Oh, no. Is it bad? Have you guys watched it yet? Are you up to date on season two?

I'm up to date on season two, but it's been so long that I've pushed off watching season three because I can't remember a lot that happens.

Well, I don't disagree with you. So here's my thoughts on ReZero season three. I am not a book reader. I would assume if you have read the light novels, this is a phenomenal adaptation. And overall, I would say this is probably the best that ReZero has looked in a while. Obviously, ReZero came out season two, like around COVID time. So White Fox was probably struggling more, but the

animation, the production of this season is really good. I just feel like the biggest strength and weakness of ReZero simultaneously is that

If this was like a custom character creator and someone's like, what stats do you want to put into ReZero? They maxed everything out to 100. So it looks good. The music is good. The voice actors and actresses always sound like they're just giving it 100% and it's over the top and crazy. And it just sounds like they're having so much fun making this product. And it's awesome.

a blast just from that alone, especially second half of this uniquely paced 16 episode season, which I think was a great choice to kind of give people a breather, give the production more time to cook, had some phenomenal animation cuts and fight scenes. So obviously looks good, sounds good. It's a really great product. The problem is those sliders going up to 100 meant let's include every character ever

and just have so many people in scenes at once. It was like if you took the entire sophisticated, like highly pinprick detailed arc of like the Chimera Ant from Hunter x Hunter, where it's like a thousand characters and their like movements are like set to the second and you get a play by play smashed into like a couple episodes and you get just side character after side character after side character after

coming in and saying there are two lines and then they have to get out of the way to make room for the next character come in and it's almost so overburdened as they try to do this marvel like we're gonna have eight fights between eight good guys and eight bad guys in different sections of the city all with different storylines and intertwining things like it's just too much it's like

You go to the biggest, best buffet you've ever been to. And someone's like, okay, good. You got five minutes to eat. And you're just trying to get everything down. And it's just too much. No one has time to actually make any impact. I forgot so many of these characters from previous seasons. And I get it. That's a skill issue on my part because it's been a while. I'm not as intimately familiar with this series because I'm watching other anime. So some of that was probably lost on me. But it just felt like...

An indulgence, which is funny because a lot of the people they're fighting are like greed or gluttony or stuff like that. But it's just a lot. It's the most anime anime to come out in a while because it's constant screaming. It's constantly the most ludicrously absurd villains ever.

That are cartoonish. Not quite like Rainbow. But just they're so goofy. While simultaneously just being grotesque. In like the ReZero body horror way. Of like rats like becoming someone's eyeball. And just like burrowing into someone's flesh. And you're like oh that's so disgusting. How did that come from like this hyper cute kawaii. Screaming character that's seen before. It's just it's a lot. So ReZero I still think it's a.

decent show. I think if you are really just ride or die for it and know your stuff about it, I'm sure it's a blast to see it all animated. Just as someone who is not all in on the world, it was a little tiring and dragged a bit for me, but it's still not bad. I would still recommend it if you've gotten that far into the series and it's going to keep on coming out and keep on being a thing. So if it continues to at least look and sound and be this well-produced,

expect it to keep on being a fan favorite. So that's my thoughts. Well, following up on that. What's next? Something good? I think so. Oh, finally. And you can comment on it because you also have it on your list. Link Click, Briden Arc. So this is the follow-up to season two of Link Click. I don't know if I can call it a season three because it's also only six episodes and it's not called season three on Mal. Yeah.

It's also not like following up on the events of the end of the second season because it's kind of a prequel, but also not. It's kind of confusing because it's... I'm going to do my best to not spoil what exactly is going on here because there is a bit of a thing that happens in the first episode that sets off these events. But basically...

In this arc of Linklick, Lu Guang goes back in time himself to when he first meets Cheng Xiaoshu. So two characters, two main characters, they open up a photo shop. I forgot. We have to describe what the show's about. They have the ability to kind of jump into photographs to solve mysteries. It's kind of a time travel mystery show. And this is a prequel to it. Yeah. Yeah.

Right? That's the vaguest of synopsis is it's technically not an anime because it's Chinese, but it's still pretty dope. So it's a great show. Highly recommend. It passes the vibe check. It passes the vibe check. So as you said, like they can go back in time through photographs. One of the characters is doing this now. Not both of them in this current arc, but.

And it goes back to when they first meet. Now, we don't really know the typical story of how they first meet until this point. They kind of drop you in midway through that of the first season.

um so it's interesting to see this but it's also i'm not sure how much of it is getting changed in the process this is a problem like we have so little context of what is supposed to happen that the changes that luguang makes it's kind of hard to keep track of what is significantly changed here um

And it's basically Lu Guang helping Cheng Xiaoshu investigate his father's disappearance, which I'm glad for because I really was craving the backstory. We weren't getting that in the first season. I thought we were going to get that in the second season. We didn't. The only thing here is that it's an alternate backstory. It's not what actually happened in the beginning because things get changed later.

Um, and another thing is that it's only six episodes and I was really wanting a full 12. Um, but we do get some new villains here that are going to make impact in, uh, the sequel if we do get one.

Um, and there were, there were, there were, there was something that happened at the end of the second season. And I was just so hyped. I was so hyped to see how that gets developed further and it doesn't get developed because this is a prequel. So that was kind of disappointing. Uh, what were your thoughts, Mason?

It's not bad, but just coming off of what season two was, it wasn't scratching the same itch, which was so interesting to me because Linklick season one was really solid.

And Link Click season two took it in a very different style. It was almost genre wise, more of a action thriller as opposed to an episodic mystery. And on paper, that sounded terrible. That's not what the show was and not what it did so well. But it did it phenomenally, arguably even better than season one. So for it to like morph into a different version and succeed so much really solidified like how good the writing was and how skillful the people making the show did.

And to kind of go to this transition prequel thing really felt like a step back, not just in like the timetable of things, but just it wasn't hitting the same highs as season two just proved it could be. Like if this had come out after season one, I'd be like, oh, it's more link click. It's a prequel. Awesome. But knowing where season two went with the stakes and where it ended, I

I was just like, "But what about that stuff?" Like it just wasn't the storyline I was interested in. And they brought up all these villains and stuff in this new transition arc and then fully didn't address them probably because they're going to merge with the end of season two into like this grand narrative of this big bad organization that they're fighting against. But we don't have that yet. So I'm left even more like, "But why didn't we spend the time doing that?" So

I would say disappointed is the word while still acknowledging like it's well put together, well looking, well acted show. And I just want season three, please, is where I'm kind of at the end of the day. Like, it's just not what I wanted. And yeah,

That's no one's fault. And yeah, it is tricky when once again, it's been years since previous entries. There's a lot of through lines and interplay. And oh, do you remember this character from this one off episode? And I'm like, yeah, I did four years ago when I watched it the first time, but I haven't like revisited it. And once again,

It's a skill issue on my part, but I just... That's where I'm at. I will say one more thing about it. About Lu Guang. And actually, there's two parts to this. One, Lu Guang, throughout the season one, season two, he's not been like the main... We have not been following him as the main... If there's one main character here, it's Cheng Xiaoshu. But it's about both of them. But we follow him and his...

experiences the most. But this is different because he's the person who jumped back in time and we are seeing things through his eyes, basically. But also, the interesting thing here is, even though he is the main person of this arc...

He is still like we do not know what he's thinking ever. Like even in season one, season two, that was already I already mentioned that. But in season three in this arc, still, I am very much wondering what he's thinking and what he's going to do in his plan of things. So I find that to be an interesting way that they're going about this.

It's just tough because a show like this with these kind of powers, they can always kind of make this ass pull last second when the stakes are like it just you needed to all come together and it's it's not there yet. So I think this will be a great show in a decade when all the seasons have come out. It has finished telling this hopefully grand story it's working towards and

And you can watch it sequentially in a way that keeps you in the know of all these intricate things going on. It's kind of similar to the issue I had with ReZero. There's just too much and I forget. And that's not... I feel like I can't judge a show for me forgetting it. That's not its fault. But it is why I did not enjoy it perhaps as much. So I don't know. But then a part two of the whole Lu Guang thing because he is...

arguably kind of a neutral type character. He's very practical and logical and therefore does not really act on emotion very much this season or this or I keep on getting those things mixed up. It's kind of a change for that. Like he's making decisions very often based on emotional reactions in the moment because like there's a lot at stake so we can't just so so so he is kind of distracted by the

emotional aspects of the arc, which I find interesting. So if you haven't seen Linklick, I highly recommend. Indeed, it's different. It's cool. It's unique. Emery, what's next? Probably have time for one more. We're going to talk about... Oh, all right. Well, perfect, because we're going to talk about a show that was...

Passed by Caroline back on episode 727. And what is this? A little skull emoji next to it? It dead. Go Go Loser Ranger is an underrated show. I finally watched season one. We have it on our list to prepare to watch season two for impressions. So I thought, OK, I'll give season one a chance to

I really love this show. I love the opening, the ending. I have to shout those out because the meticulous nature that they put into animating both the opening and the ending and the songs are just certified bangers. So well done.

And so for those who don't know what the show is, I would say in trying to give it a little synopsis, what if the Power Rangers weren't all that good to begin with and weren't necessarily the good guys you thought they were? And so instead of following the Rangers, you're going to follow Foot Soldier D. That's just his name as he...

Plots and plans to take down the Rangers from the inside. I was so enraptured by the twists and turns that this took. The Rangers in this case are called the Divine Dragon Rangers. They have

Very mysterious and unique weapons. And there are a lot of characters in this that are not as they appear. And I love that. I think sometimes it's hard in Shonen when you do get too many characters in the room and go and delve into all their backstories. So I think this is doing a very good job of keeping it a little more succinct.

with those backstories currently. Will it likely get out of hand? Probably. It'll probably go down the Bleach and One Piece rabbit hole. And I'll still love that. I am one where I love getting those backstories, even if it sometimes diverts me from the action for a little bit just to have the background. But I am so looking forward to season two. I've already picked up

Where the anime left off, I picked up the next manga edition at my local Barnes & Noble. And so I'm ready to go for this. Did either of you two finish season one of Go Go Loser Ranger? Despite the fact that I was the one who passed it, I did not finish it. And I was not planning on finishing it. Because, okay, well, it was...

Starting to feel all over the place, you know, it unfocused. I did not really see like the pacing was getting crazy. And I don't know, it was just feeling like it was unraveling. And I just did not really see it sticking the landing. I might get back to it considering you really liked it. But I'm still kind of unsure. I didn't watch any of the show.

Any of it. Any of it. I didn't give it a chance, which means I didn't drop it like Caroline. So, you know, that makes me still near good graces, right? At least watch the opening and ending. The ending is just very fun CGI, very fun music. I love the opening. I have it on my playlist. I do. So there's that. It's such a banger of an opening. I love that, Danny. And I thought it was very cool. Yeah, that was a no-brainer for me to add that. Yeah.

I thought it was very cleverly animated. I am one where I like that merging where it's well animated as well as having a banger song. I usually like the song more than the animation and this one I very very rarely fast forward to get to the episode. I see what you're saying about some of the pacing. I do think that it comes off as unfocused because it's going into a new twist in the storyline personally.

But that said, if you don't like it, that's okay. We all have our preferences. I just, I was starting this thinking, this is going to be so boring. I'm not going to like it. And I ended up loving every second of it. That's the power of just low to no expectations. Like if someone, everyone said, oh, this show's amazing. You know, you come in with that. Oh, how's it going to sell me? But when you're just like, ah, this doesn't look like it's got potential. And then it delivers. Chef's kiss.

Yes, yes. And I think overall, the animation is good. I think my biggest critique is their outfits are a choice. When you don't have a color, you wear this

White which why would you wear white when you're gonna go battle like demons and monsters and things and they're wearing white and the villains are wearing black which is bad so it's the symbolism. They should be wearing black because black is like the absence of color not white being all the colors.

It's very strappy. And when I think about like putting that sort of suit on, I'm like, oh my God, that's like the straps are going to go up my butt. I'm not going to like it. This is going to be uncomfortable. How am I going to fight in this? Like, just go look up the like colorless ranger outfit and you would be like, all right, that's a choice. Well, thank you for that surprising recommendation.

I guess, what did we learn today? Watch Link Click, check out Toilet Bound Hanako-kun despite the name, check out Go Go Loser Ranger even though Caroline casted aside, watch Skip and Loafer or My Dress Up Darling, and keep on watching ReZero if you like it. Rainbows and kingdoms are for losers. Something like that. Do we got a trivia question for the good people? We do. We do have a trivia question. Alright.

So with a name that means eyes in Polish, which character in Orb on the movements of the Earth initially fears looking at the night sky despite his excellent vision? We will tell you the answer when we return. ♪

♪

Anime addicts, Mitsuki is here. Have no fear. It's time for the anime news. Getting us started off. Hayao Miyazaki. Well, we all know the man is a total legend, but he's also been in the industry for seemingly forever. He got his start seven years before Studio Ghibli's founding, directing the series Future Boy Conan, which came out in 1978. It's a post-apocalyptic story based on Alexander Key's novel, The Incredible Tide. Now, I have seen this, and it is quite amazing, so you should go see it.

♪♪

Next up, we have some manga being made into a TV anime in 2026. The Osanana Jimi Toa Love Comedy Minaranai, or No More Love with the Girls. This manga getting made into an anime by Tezuka Productions. It's going to come out in 2026, so you do have quite a ways to wait. The manga was serialized in Magazine Pocket by Misu back in March of 2022, and it's very popular apparently.

Stars a high schooler named A.U. who has a dilemma, two childhood friends that are just too cute to be believed. It's a slow-burning love triangle where all of the heroines are childhood friends.

So we'll have to see how this one pans out. For those of you that love romantic comedies, this is probably right in your wheelhouse. Next up in some strange news, a Kanagawa man in Japan is arrested for pouring instant noodles into a train ticket machine, which I just thought was so funny. So the train ticket machines in Japan can be really confusing and frustrating to use sometimes, especially the bullet train machines.

However, it might just be enough to make someone like this guy lose his shit and pour his cup noodles into the machine. So there's actually a video online from the Japanese news demonstrating what happened with what he did using 3D models. The man merely went up to the machine and poured all of the hot liquid from the soup right down into the coin receptor, destroying the machine. The police arrested the man, and he is being fined $10,000 for damage or property, which is what the machine was valued at, which...

I frankly kind of find a little hard to believe, but nonetheless, do not pour your cup noodles down the train ticket machines in Japan. And it just goes to show that it's not just foreigners causing mischief in Japan. Sometimes the Japanese people have just had enough too, and they just can't handle it. Lastly, probably the biggest news of possibly the year in gaming, Nintendo has delayed the Switch 2 pre-orders in the USA forever.

to assess they say tariff impacts but i have to imagine it's probably also due to the unbelievable backlash to the prices of the system nintendo has announced that the 499 dollar price which let's be honest is 500 after tax and the 80 to 90 dollar price tag for the games has not had very good reception by the gaming industry and is being dragged by practically everybody on youtube

Nintendo told GameStop and other retailers on Friday that it has postponed pre-orders for the Switch system in the United States to, quote, assess the impacts of tariffs and the evolving market conditions, which is the most polite way to say gamers losing their shit.

The company will announce the new pre-order date later. They insist that they're not going to move their launch date, which is June 5th. So for those of you that do want to spend $1,000 on a Switch, a couple of peripherals and a couple of games, it is still coming out on June 5th. This was Mitsuki and this was your anime news break. Now it's time to get back to the podcast. Anime Addicts Mitsuki is back yet again and

And I'm here to tell you that the podcast really does need your financial support. I'm not, I know we say this every week, but I would say that the podcast financially is getting less support now than it has in quite a while. I know that the economic conditions in just life are very difficult right now for everybody. And a lot of people are impacted. A lot of businesses are impacted. And hey, the podcast is impacted as well. But I cannot understate the fact that the podcast does need financial support. And I'm not just saying this because we say it every week.

So if you can support the podcast, we would really appreciate it. We work extra hard every week to bring you a lot of extra content. We record eight extra episodes a month just for you that we release that are exclusive. You get the hentai episodes, the hobby addicts, the after parties, you know, the offering. We hope you enjoy it. If you want to help out the podcast, patreon.com or the website aapodcast.com slash joint is the way to do it.

And, of course, we do offer lots of other stuff for free as well, like our Discord. So just remember Patreon and the website. Support the podcast. I am not just saying this because we say it every week. It has, I would say, entered alarming territory. So if you can support the podcast, please help out. And if not, I hope you continue to enjoy the show.

Welcome back to the podcast where I watched the Go Go Loser Ranger opening because it was recommended. It was pretty good. It was pretty cool.

Yeah. No context definitely hurts some of the parts, but neat art style. Pretty, pretty fun song. Good times.

Anyway, when we last left you, we also had a weekly trivia question. With a name that means eyes in Polish, which character in Orb on the Movements of the Earth initially fears looking at the night sky despite his excellent vision? The answer is Oxy. Oxy. I'm going to struggle big time with this review because I do not speak Polish or sound like I'm able to. So you know who I'm talking about, though. Yeah.

Before we get to mailbags, we have a quick shout out to new Anime Addict supporters from the past week. We have S2K on Patreon. A big thank you for joining the crew. As well as in our Discord, we have a little betting channel where folks make a bunch of ludicrous things and it's a bunch of fun. Emery helps moderate that and keep people in line. It's a good old

time, but we currently got some love and donations from The Ghost, The One and Only, as well as New Day 79. So thank you both for the contributions and it goes a long way. We really do appreciate it. Mailbags, is that right? Yes, mailbag time. Here we go. It's time for an almighty anime mailbag. Anime, anime, anime. M-m-m-mailbag bag.

If you'd like to submit a mailbag, you can do so at aapodcast.com and click on the mailbag button. We have one here from Neighborhood Bub. They say, hey, fellow addicts. Was on the drive home from work the other day, and I'm not sure why this popped in my head, but for some reason, I don't seem to notice much facial hair in anime. Maybe it's the shows that I watch. And I was wondering who you all thought had the best facial hair in anime. Thank you.

Thanks. Love the show. Keep up the good work. Thank you very much. Okay. Immediately. Immediately I thought of one person in particular, partially because we talked about him last week on the show, but also because his facial hair is just immaculate. Immaculate! Noguchi from March Comes in Like a Lion. It even twinkles. It sparkles whenever he shows up on screen. So you know it's a good mustache.

And similarly, I think Schmidt's stash in Orb is also pretty nice. And we're about to talk about that stash and much more in the next few minutes. Mason, shout out some stashes. Thank you.

I'm definitely more particular to the mustache game. So as you said, both great suggestions, as well as Alex Louise Armstrong from Full Metal Alchemist, which also has a ton of mustaches in it. Strong mustache game in FMA. So Neighborhood Bub, I literally do not know how you haven't seen

facial hair like even the most common way I feel like is the just couple like stray pokers through to show like someone like hasn't shaved today kind of thing or it's just generally disheveled but Fullmetal Alchemist has a ton um Oaken as well similar to Schmidt from Ranking of Kings has a phenomenal mustache and as far as like Ghibli has a ton of great mustaches between themselves Yupa Kamijiri have a bunch of mustaches that you can see their character design like

equated in their mustache game. And also I'm a big fan of just the oops all hair, which you kind of get with like Senshi from Delicious in Dungeon or Aisen from Shurin. Kind of funny that these two fantasy-esque shows that came out at the same time have just the Baird game strong. So what shows are you watching where you haven't seen facial hair is what I'm... And I get it. You know, it's not that common, but also it's not that uncommon, at least in anime. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, to like bounce off of that, I'm going to go with even some very common ones. And I was thinking of good facial hair because I think there's quite a bit of facial hair that maybe you're just not recognizing because maybe it's not good. But like, let's go Cowboy Bebop, Jet Black, great facial hair, iconic. King Vegeta, Dragon Ball Z. I know that maybe...

People think of Vegeta in his GT phase with his little stache. No, no, no. You got to go King Vegeta. Good old goatee. Um, with one piece, I said Mihawk to which of course, when I told Raggedy, that's who I was picking. He said, quote, the only correct answer is white beard. Newgate calls his mustache a beard and no one was man enough to correct him. So there you go. A little quick shout out for you on that. Uh,

And I was thinking of you, Caroline, for Zeke. I think the attack on Titan in the map version. Zeke has a nice beard there. He has some well-trimmed facial hair for a man who is constantly fighting and killing. But also Pyxis. Pyxis has a decent stache. Yeah. Yep. Right. Right. These are great staches, beards, what have you. Yeah.

I think just look for it and you will see it. It's like when you think, I've never seen a red car in my neighborhood. Suddenly you're just going to pick out all of the red cars.

So that could also be part of the reason. Yeah, I mean, maybe you're just over here just watching K-On! And like, yeah, I get it. You're going to find less of them in a cute girls doing cute show. But that said, thank you for the question, Neighborhood Bub. We appreciate you. And report back if you ever find one. I'm curious.

Alright, I think it's time. I think we need a bit of time actually because I think we all have a lot to say. It's time for our review of Orb on the Movements of the Earth. This is a fall 2024 show. Ran for two quarters. You can watch it over on Netflix and it is done by Madhouse. It is set in 15th century Europe kind of sort of and

And it was set in a time where heretical ideas such as heliocentrism, the belief that maybe, you know, we revolve around the sun instead of the universe revolving around the earth, is a mindset and a proposal and a theory that would probably get you yelled at and or decapitated and or burned at the stake. And the show is about the folks who are living through that time and harboring such ideas and concepts and theories.

It's based on a manga. And what was everyone's expectations going in? We'll start with Emery. Yeah, I was a little worried going into this one for a handful of reasons. BDH on the Discord, Big Damn Hero. He really loved this title, actually kept praising it and was asking, why aren't more people talking about Orb? And we, in a similar fashion to me and Mason, have very different

narrow Venn diagram of shows that we actually are inclined to like. And so I was pretty worried about that one. That said, the only other thing that really I was worried about is the length. 25 episodes is a lot. It is two cores. So I actually had a lot of reservations going into this one. And Caroline?

Yeah, I heard a lot of people talking about it when it first began with some praise. And I had planned to eventually watch it even before I signed up for the review. So I was glad I could kill two birds with one stone there. Though I was kind of rushing to finish the show in the last week. I got a little behind.

But I was really looking forward to the European historical fiction type of show that was going to be because automatically it's something different than most anime. And we've had a pretty decent track record with those kind of shows. So I was interested to get into it.

Yeah, it felt like a different vibe sort of show. I had obviously watched this back when we were doing Impressions. I thought it had a really promising start. It kind of scratches my itch and desire to know about the sciences and history of ideas and concepts and how the truth is important in the past, currently, all sorts of things. So I had a lot of high hopes, had heard a lot of good things about it. It seemed like up my alley.

Watching 25 episodes of a very dialogue-heavy show in a week was a bit of an ask, but we got here. We're here today. And with that in mind, spoiler free, would you people recommend Orb to the good folks at home? Emery, we'll start with you again.

Okay, well, absolutely. I think this is a cultural piece that is very valuable, especially to the time we're living in. I think that everyone should give it a chance. Does it mean you're going to love it? You might not. You might not. And we'll get into some of the storytelling choices that were made and why. But I think this is a provocative show. I think it is a show that

has you thinking philosophically about a lot of big human ideas that I do believe people should be thinking about. I think go watch the show. That's pretty strong, yeah. I do recommend the show.

But I can't say I so strongly love it as much as I did at the beginning. I feel like it started off really well and the rest of the show just doesn't live up to the peak it set at the beginning. And that's not just because of, you know, the choice of what they do with the characters. And actually, I've heard different opinions on it.

you know, the high points of the show. So take that as you will. I feel like the story is very interesting and the characters are diverse and three-dimensional. Like there's no just good and evil here. A lot of the characters have their highs and lows and like the way it melts together between like the church and science and evil and good. And it's not all black and white. The animation, not so great at times. And yeah,

I don't really feel like that's, like, that's not, like, a major deterrent. It's not that kind of show where it needs to have, like, the glamorous animation. What it needs to have is scenes that you can see. And unfortunately, that is a little too high of a bar for this show. There's quite a few scenes that are lit a little too darkly. It does bring to mind some of the scenes of Game of Thrones where it's like, well, it's accurate. They don't have lights in these dark houses, you know? So, yeah, yeah.

But I need to see what's happening here, people. This is where it's good to have an OLED TV like we have. That is meant for that. But yeah, you don't want people spending...

Just hundreds of dollars on a TV to see it. It's very rare that's a problem with anime. And I feel like it was because they were shooting for realism in the show. I will say that even, like, maybe even partially because of the very dark scenes, when they get to the night sky visuals, it's pretty spectacular. Like, that's what lights up the show. And I...

I really appreciate that. And then the music is really great too. Uh, Kinsuke Ushio always bounces off with these shows. Um, I feel a little bit unsatisfied by the ending, unfortunately. Um,

But I do think that this is a great show for fans of shows like Vinland Saga, especially if you really, really like the second season of Vinland Saga, where it still has some of that really serious, violent tones of that era of the world, but also a lot of

you know, talks about philosophy and theories and all that. So, and even if you are not sure if you haven't even seen Vinland Saga, for those looking for something a bit different from the usual anime selection, I think this is a very decent choice and it's easy to watch because it's on Netflix. Yeah, I don't disagree at all. It's very far from a perfect show and we're going to get into why.

Damn God, it is so good. And allow me a tangent to explain why. Tangent away. So I use the CeraVe family of products to clean my skin at night. It's up there with Cetaphil. CeraVe just has like that hospital neutral aesthetic that just makes me feel like it's a quality product. And I just... We are sponsored by CeraVe. It's always been good. If you're having trouble, use CeraVe. It's great stuff. We are not sponsored by them, by the way.

I order them online, sometimes from Target, sometimes from Amazon, all over the place. And occasionally, I get a fake version of CeraVe sent to my house. And you can tell, sometimes the lid has an off color to it, the injection molding is different between the authentic brand and the knockoff, the font that they type and print on the back is sometimes fuzzier, the product sometimes feels more oily.

And, yeah, go ahead. I have a question. I just had my hand raised. Why don't you just go to your local pharmacy or grocery store to buy your serum? And sometimes I have. And they have fakes there on the shelf. No, they don't. They do. Trust me. No. I'd highly doubt. This is fascinating. My face can tell the difference. All right. Talk more about lotion, please. Okay. In this day and era, 2025, my face lotion is lying to me. My face lotion is deceitful and not telling the truth.

And I would argue that our current era is more steep in falsehoods than ever, from Instagram stories, discreditation of sciences, and yes, home good products. Even politicians, a set of folks I've long considered to play in the realm of truthiness, are reaching record levels of disinformation.

And Thucydides, this Greek professor, once said, Which is, to put more plainly, people believe things simply because they want it to be true.

And we, the masses in our desperation or hopefulness or lack of critical thinking skills, just eat up these non-truths. And we just happily believe what we want. We don't question the world. And as long as something fits our desired narrative, we don't critically think about things.

as much as I think we should have. And yes, there are subjective discussions about a way of doing things where there's not a correct answer, quote unquote, but there are so many things today that we just fail to seek the truth in. And I think Emery kind of touched on this to some degree, but this show is not only wondrously written and it follows this epic arc of an idea rather than a set character and the quest and pursuit of truth,

Feels like something that's very...

It just feels so necessary to our current age. Like we need a show like this to showcase like what the truth means and matters and why the pursuit of it has so much value. And yes, the show has amazing characters and whelming animation because it doesn't look that great and long sections of dialogue that will be a bit boring to folks. But I still found the show, especially in the first half, so intense and compelling that I,

That even though they were just talking, like I was holding my breath and it wasn't until like the jaunty ending kicks in where I'm like, oh, geez, I can breathe again because it was just that intense. And I feel like this show is not for everyone. If you're more open to learning about the nature of the world, the vast galaxies of human viewpoints, like this is a show that's not so much like a takedown of religion or something like that, more of a breakdown of religion.

thought and the processes behind it. It's not this big drama about characters, but a show with characters in it to convey and act as the wheels of the mechanism. So I strongly recommend the show. I think it is phenomenal despite all its faults. Yes, if you are extremely sensitive to

Intruquent but somewhat recurring scenes of torture, or just really want to watch a sick anime with Sakuga where the Chad calls out his awesome new fantasy power move and grows his harem, like yeah, you're probably not gonna have a great time with Orb. But I encourage people to check out the show. It starts off strong, and if you're not vibing with it after a little bit,

Sure, that's fine. It's not for you. But I will speak highly of the show, despite all the complaints, and I think we can get to spoilers. So, I've already spoken too long. Here's your warning. Oh my god! So what are you going to do about your lotion issue? I'd just get another one. Just get another one. Usually I just order a bunch and send the ones that aren't good back. So, uh...

I had no idea that you were being plagued by such torment. It happens. People are... And I get it. Like, that's such a non-issue in the world, but it's tough out there. It's your issue. Don't sell your... It's Mason's sheeple wake-up sheeple moment. It's on face lotion. Question the world. Wake up, sheeple. Anyway, so...

We're definitely going to spoil the absolute poop out of this show. I really strongly recommend it. Spoiler! If you have not checked it out... The Earth does revolve around the sun. That's the spoiler. Oh my goodness, got him. And going in as blind as possible really is the best way to go about this because while the twists aren't massive, they are there and important to everything. And...

Okay, we're spoiling it now. This show is divided up into four parts, each with a different lead protagonist, if you will. And you're not really sure when or why they're going to shift, but it's going to happen. It's going to hurt you. But I feel like we just kind of have to run through the show in order because I think that's the best way to keep everything in bits. But essentially, part one begins in a world of danger. It opens up on a torture scene, which...

you know spoilers like it's interesting because we follow our main character rafael who just is the goodest boy ever and he's just so smart and pragmatic and practical and just level-headed in a way that we normally don't get in anime like he sees these pitfalls and knows how to avoid them by talking correctly or changing his viewpoint or pretending to follow instructions because he just

knows to not fall for those things. And you just see him definitely avoiding all these things that would spell his doom. And you're like, okay, he's good. We got him. He'll stick around for a while. He doesn't. It's so upsetting. But I love part one. It's so good. It's such a great opening in so many ways. How'd you feel about it? Like, yeah. It set the tone. Because, you know, we're starting off with one of the most innocent moments

main characters you know he's 12 years old and he's just you know setting off on his like life of major um potential of being a you know very smart and respected scholar and all that stuff and yet he gets caught up in this um but i just realized something like as you said like he is so pragmatic he knows what to do what to say to get ahead in life and

But why is it that he is so quickly caught is crazy to me.

I don't think it's about his quick being caught that's the issue. Actually, I mean, I don't have any notes. Like, there's nothing about part one that I would change. I think it was beautifully done, and the whole sequence of this boy who we've been following, who we've seen, gets given the choice of, like, you know, renounce your ways, give up heliocentrism, fall in line. And a character who has done nothing but fall in line the entire show, like, to ensure his survival...

He knowingly goes off to his death and

It's so powerful. Like it haunts the character who is interrogating him in a sense for years to come. And it just sets the stage of the temporary nature of humanity and like the bolstering of what makes timeless ideas that much more powerful. And essentially this idea is the handing off of concepts and philosophy and all that from era to era, person to person, age to age and like respect. And we'll meet Raphael later.

But already, if you haven't seen the show and you've gotten this far into spoilers, it's only going to get more spoilery from here. Watch the show. Okay. Yes. And to speak as well about the children in the show, because I think that's one of the aspects that the author and then Madhouse did extremely well of showing. And I put it in our show notes, but there's an interview with the author that

regarding affirming curiosity and ambition, he said, it's very important that I didn't end the story with both sides of the argument. And I feel like that is so well shown in each part is that there is this handing off. And why I'm thinking about the children in the show specifically because you have this 12 year old boy that is now going to be sentenced to death for

essentially saying, I'm going to stick to this. I believe in this idea. I believe in the science and the curiosity. I think that there's these woven moments and Yolanta I think explains it the best later on that children are curious and there's this curiosity that comes from human nature that cannot be quelled. And it's really beautiful to see when convictions really start to like

take a hold of somebody and lead them down whatever path. You're right. He's willing to fall in line. He's willing to do all of this. But then there comes a sticking point where he finds his thing he believes in,

And I think that is really just well portrayed in the children in this story, because it's not just Raphael. We will get to other characters as well that are very, very young going in that just want the ability to look at the world and ask questions and maybe contradict themselves and be okay with it. And the adults of the world that are saying, no, you can't do that. They're trying to box them in. They're not wanting them to expand, to evolve, to just

explore belief and the thinking mind. And I, I really enjoyed this first part and that tone it set. And specifically, I enjoyed that we saw all of this torture. And then Raphael takes that aspect away with his death because he owns his own death. He says, okay, I'm more than willing to just kill, you know, kill myself and let this idea continue to foster. I think that's

That was such a creative thing that I didn't see coming at all. And I also thought it was kind of like as I was thinking about the first part, I'm like, it's even more tragic when I can think about it even more so, because in a way, I always I was thinking like.

Okay, so all of his life, he's been, he's like, like, his motto in life is to keep your head down and walk the straight path. And I was thinking to myself, what if he always knew, like, subconsciously that he has the curiosity and the brilliance to do things and his...

Belief in this mis-motto of keeping my head down, think rationally, think logically, and don't move from this spot is kind of his survivalistic instinct against his potentials that he already has a feeling for. And the ending is him just letting all that go and just...

you know, forgetting this instinct to survive and just staying true to his nature. It's so good. It's so beautiful. It's so well written. Yeah. And, um, yeah. So when he does die and he does, um,

kill himself for it. I'm like, shit, man. We're in this. There's stakes. This is not some anime main character plot armor. This is choices and the responses for him. And it just really sets the tone for everything to come. Yeah. And also I really appreciate Potocki Potocki.

What's his name? Potaki? Potaki? Potaki. Potaki. Whatever his name is. Potaki. His adoptive father. And it's not... And he's interesting, too, because he turns in Raffle, but thinking for its own good, and this would be the thing that would set him straight, because he's thinking, okay, he will of course recant, and he will of course come back, and because of this, he will follow the path that he should be. But he doesn't realize just how deep...

And convinced a Raphael is to to follow through. So I would have really liked to, you know, see his reaction to the to Raffles actions. But I guess that anybody gets, you know, dies off screen. So, yeah. Yeah.

I think that's some of the nature, too, of Orb, though, that I ended up appreciating is I wanted some of those moments where it's like, oh, I want to see the comeuppance of these certain characters and they just die off screen or you don't get to see them. And that's just the nature of humanity, too. You don't always get to see a happy ending or a good resolve. You just...

Something happens and you might get the answer. Or never. So we'll talk about this later. But there's definitely some big drama moments, intention between characters or tragedies that play out. And you expect there to be this big emotional climactic moment where a truth is revealed or someone's world is shattered from a revelation. And it sometimes happens. But even when it does, it's very reserved. It's very...

You expect this big meat steak burger to bite into and be like, ah, here's all my drama goodness that the show's been building. And it kind of just doesn't always give that to you because life just doesn't always work that way. There's a fundamental nature of how the show is telling you to not be concerned with it. It's not about the characters. It's about the story and there's just characters in it and you don't always get that satisfying payoff. But I think in this first part, you do kind of get that overall more than others. Yeah.

Any other thoughts on part one before we move on to the much heftier part two? Yeah, let's go. Nope. Other than just noticing how all of the characters who die tend to be looking at the sky. That's why I never look at the sun. Yeah. Well, speaking of not looking at the sun, part two takes place 10 years later and it's

I will admit, you know, I was really attached to our best boy, Raffle. I feel a little sad leaving him. You get these new characters and Oxy and Gross, and you're like, I don't know if I like this as much. I don't know if I... But by the end...

They're just as awesome and you're just as ride or die with them as you were at the beginning. And I would say part two from the more dynamic trio between the two as well as newcomer Jolenta, as well as just the length that it went on for. This was probably my favorite part of the show. It was rife with issues and we'll get to it. But this was probably just like to me where the show peaked.

Yes, I think this had the greatest evolution of characters because I adore a story that makes a character that I do not like. And it just irks me. And Oxy annoyed the absolute bejesus out of me, especially going from Raffle to him. But by the end, you're just in your feelings with him. And so...

I was blown away by what this part two could do. Yeah, I feel like it's almost like it was driving a car and it just needed to shift gears. When you shift gears, you need to slow down. You need to not keep up the same speed, if only for a second, so that you can then go even further. And that's where the show is, where you start off with Oxy, who is still in the world rife with danger. He's like in sword fights in the street as part of his job, duels to the death. So you know...

you know, his death is going to happen for the next jump. Cause you kind of are starting to lean forward. You're like, okay, this is how the show is going to work.

But it doesn't come right away. It's like nine episodes. It's the longest section by far, but it's the most complex where you have Oxy, this guy who kind of just looks away. He shies away in the way that Raffle didn't. You have Badeni, this priest figure who is just very self-centered and kind of rejecting of goodness, but you're still kind of cheer for him because he's like the motor that keeps the scientific project going. You have Jolenta, a very sympathetic lady who...

your heart just breaks for like what she's going through and how she's treated by her peers, her supervisors. And she's just not in a good place. She's a woman learning the sciences in an era where that's frowned upon. And you just, you sympathize and you cheer for all these characters simultaneously. And they're just situation was phenomenal. Yeah. I liked this. I did like this arc. Yeah.

I just, I was, again, I think I'll just say it outright. I just liked the first part too much than the other parts. Oxy, as Emery said, really created on me. Maybe it's just because he's way too, too depressed a lot of the time. That anything that, it was like almost everything that just came out of his mouth, you knew it was just going to be something depressing. Yeah.

He was your Eeyore. He was an absolute Eeyore in the beginning. And I appreciate his development during this arc, but as I find quite a few times in this show, I feel like the development's

kind of are on a, you know, a flip of a coin. Like, you wonder when it's going to happen. Like, you know somebody's going to change. It feels like a lot of change happens very quickly despite the length of this arc for me. I don't have an issue...

With the kind of sudden reversal of some characters. Like the old man, Piasu. They go to him and they're like, hey, we have this theory. Can we use your stuff? And he's like, no. And then he has like one flashback. He's like, okay, never mind. You can have it. Like, that didn't bother me as such as...

The biggest issue with part two is convenience. For as grounded as the show is in so many ways, there's so many writing elements that really did razzle my berries. For example, we have this character, Oxy, who says multiple times he cannot look at the sky and he cannot read. He's unable to read. And upon producing this book to Badeni, Badeni's like, here, go do the observations. The book tells you how.

How did he go out and do the observations if he couldn't read the instructions in the book that told him how to do the observations? Yes, you can argue that Oxy's lack of reading was averted by, like, being around Gras, and maybe he, like, saw his co-panion do it. Well, you'll want to talk to him, too. But that was after. They mentioned that in the show. This is the very first time. Oh, you're right. Very early on, when Badani's like, prove to me you can, like, look at the stars. Look at the, like, read the book for instructions. How did he do that? Oh, there's plenty of things that don't make sense in the show, and I have a list that I can think of.

That I will rattle off later. We're going to talk about episode five, this bridge scene. Oh my god. Where Oxy and Grass are crossing a bridge. And yes, we have seen bridges collapse before in nature. Like, I believe it. We've seen it happen. But the bridge cracks perfectly so that Grass can fall. But Oxy catches him. And they have this long conversation while they hold on. And then he falls again. And...

oxy like catches him by hooking his foot in the the most feeblest of cord on this necklace and proceeds to continue to hold him for a further long conversation that even though the weight sudden load of a grown man plus weaponry didn't break it they can do a just dramatic i'm just gonna finger flick it and it's gonna break but you're also still not gonna drop the necklace like

Like, I get that they just wanted to have this dramatic thing to happen to force Oxy to take on this burden that he doesn't want. I get that. I understand it. But it just undercuts the message and the drama with just this really ham-fisted way of making this transition occur. And...

I get it. If you look at it from a literalist perspective, a lot of moments of this show feel bad. Oh, the people are coming for us. They're two feet away. They're going to invade us. Let's have this long five minute discussion about like how we're going to evade. Like it's on the list.

Oh, I don't have a backup plan letter written for how we're going to get saved. But I did make a backup plan where I tattooed the skulls of all these beggars in the street across 68 heads. And there's all legible and readable. And no one ran away. I forgot about that. I like that scene. I forgot about the tattooing. Because of how it's aversive and symbolism and distributing knowledge through the minds of the masses. I get it. I love that. But it just could have been done differently.

better so as ambitious as part two is and awesome and the character growth is phenomenal and the struggles are going through there's a lot of moments that you're just like it just could have just been better

Caroline, did you have some more you wanted to add? Oh, I mean, I think I should wait to rattle off all of my. Oh, you want you on a big mic drop moment later? Yeah, I mean, that's what I tend to do whenever I have lists like this and you already spoiled it. I'm sorry. Don't you know, Mason, that I'm the only one has to complain about stupid things? I mean, yeah, but at least I can then fight you back on them and say why they're actually good. But I can't always do it here. I can't.

make a good justification why like the old man is like you know what i'll believe it if the venus is full also it's gonna be full in like two hours so let's go do like it was it felt convenient in a lot of ways and i did like the science behind it i kind of wish they went further in i want them to say like but told me you piece of shit this is why your venus model proves that the thing is wrong here's why retrograde like i think they did a pretty good job but as a science boy myself i wanted

I wanted that full breakdown and takedown of how we've learned and developed our understanding of the world. Yeah. I think that's because this comes across as it should be a science show, but it's really a show on philosophy. It is. It absolutely is. And belief and things. And about that, the philosophy, I don't really mind how wordy the show is in general, if only it made sense to be wordy like this. The thing is that there's so many...

very deep and long-winded philosophical discussions that are coming from people that would not be having these deep, long philosophical discussions or at a time and circumstance that they would be having these deep, long philosophical discussions. Like, Oxy is not the type of person. He's a commoner, low birth, does not know how to read. He is going to speak simply.

And at a certain point, I'm like, okay, I've had enough of people pondering about very long-winded things that, honestly, I kind of forget what they're talking about sometimes. They've been talking for so long. And it just happens way too often. So I thought Oxy spoke plainly enough, and I think he served his role as...

being this plain spoken commoner who wasn't educated, wasn't privy to the inner workings. And Badeni, this highly educated, judgmental person, elitist, who was like, poo-pooing this, learned from Oxy's like, simple mindset and kind of changed his mind. And I think this is, there's, I'm trying to remember the other priest who was like, part of that organization, the guy that

but then he like writes the note too and is it grabowski or something something like that like earlier he's asking about like hey do you have any epicurean like poems or stuff like that that can you share some of that knowledge with me and he's like no the masses don't deserve knowledge the masses it's not about that information should be like held and pocketed to the intellectuals to the people who will use it responsibly and not spread misinformation and

The show is interesting because a lot of characters viewpoints are like argue not only in that arc but also across multiple sections. People in part three will argue against people from part one across time and it's like only us the viewer get that back and forth. But this whole Benigni's viewpoint is

was proven wrong between oxy's ability to convey messages from a simple point of view. The beggars, the lowest people of that era, those people literally being inscribed with the knowledge of passing it on and the epicurean things that his co priest wanted to know about, like that guy's school, like he invited women and he invited slaves and people of low birth. It was all about the propagation of knowledge and how that universally makes society more

Yeah, you get some misinformation and some noise in the channel, but it's always worth it for the betterment of society. So like there's it's good. It's good. The show is good. You got to believe me. Yeah. I also think to speak to your question about he's low birth. He shouldn't speak that way. I think.

While I see your point historically, I think what the author was trying to get at is even if you are not well spoken for, you have these big sweeping ideas of what is death. Death is terrifying. What is heaven? What is hell? And so I think there was just a lot of well done stuff.

writing in this that I guess I came off on the other side of it. I actually really loved those big sweeping dialogue moments. Are they realistic? Probably not. Is it too much?

but I thought it showed how the human brain works and it also didn't limit it. And like what we were talking about with specifically Bandy and some of the others where they were just trying to hold on to the knowledge, trying to keep it to themselves. I mean, you had such egos coming out, even from the count being like, I want to come up with a theory and I don't want to share it with anyone else. And so to prove that,

people whether it was a young girl or it was somebody of lower birth who is Fighting to the death every night because he doesn't really care if he dies because at least Heaven might be better because earth is supposed to be this terrible and horrible place So I I actually came on the opposite side I liked that he gave these big sweeping dialogue pieces and that he was pondering such was pondering the orb profound things and

Yeah, because I think it's easy to be like, oh, that person is of low birth. Oh, that person shouldn't know anything. I mean, even Yolanda, oh, that's a girl. Why should she know anything? Why should she write anything? You know, people could argue even like, oh, of the era, like women didn't read and write. Well, yeah, some of them did or they had to hide it. And so I just...

I really liked that aspect of the show is the unexpected lines coming out of people who were simpler or not expected to do anything with their lives. I thought the main thing I really enjoyed about the second part is the relationship between Oxy and Bedeni and how they changed each other up until their, you know, duo death. Yeah. Demise. Mm-hmm. Um...

But yeah, and I thought Bedeni was really interesting because of where he started and where he ended up by going out of his way to carry on a desire of what Akshi was hoping for in the end of their story.

yeah and like he was such a strict character like he was all set on the way we knew how badeni was similar to how we knew raphael was you know always a good boy never would do anything to put himself in danger puts himself in danger but then he goes on about how it's his work only no one's getting the profits this is my legacy this is my you know gift to the world and if it dies it dies with me and i'm not leaving anything behind at the end he

has the backup plan. He allows it to persist. It's about the last second changing of characters that has been building for the last nine episodes that make it so rewarding. It was just so satisfying. And yeah, a two episode long torture scene is tough to watch, but it was so revealing. And just a little nod to

the title of this whole series, Orb on the Movements of the Earth, reference to Copernicus's On the Revolutions of the Heavenly Spheres. But Chi, which is like the big title, the katakana that makes the logo for the show, if you will, doesn't inherently itself have a meaning. Chi is just a sound used in other words and Chi is used throughout the show as part of other words. So for Raphael, Chi is part of the Chi for Chiuki in Earth.

In episode 10, the title of the episode is Chi for truth and knowledge, which is what Badeni and his crew are looking for. It's about truth. It's about that quest. Episode 11, where Nowak is torturing them, the title of the episode is Chi for blood, which is translated to horror in the Netflix show, but blood.

It's about the different ways that chi is used in all these people's lives. And it's just such a nice touch that just, oh, it's so good. There's so many little things like that. I noticed that and I'm like, God, that's smart. It's so good. I think one of my favorite lines is in part two where Piazza is like,

supervisor is like talking to him and he's saying like, you know, no one really believed in you to be, you know, you're born into this rich family. No one believes that you going into astronomy is a good idea. And he says, show those nearsighted fools who doubted you, your interest in astronomy and that double meaning of nearsighted, both nearsighted and not being able to see the future and what is to come, but nearsighted, literally you are unable to see up into the stars and like see the

the planets that you're observing. There's just...

It's great. And props to the translator for doing their best to probably catch that. My enjoyment of the show would not be the same without having translators be able to digest and put it through the machine that makes it good, but it was well done. So thank you everyone. I think we do need to talk about Yolanta. We mentioned her a few times before, but her perspective brings in a whole new set of issues for the, the show to touch on. You know, like the, the,

The lives of a woman, the lives of a woman in a scholarly position, all in this time period. A girl whose father is just the exact opposite of their goals, you know?

And she was a great addition to this cast, especially since going into this, you probably would assume that there would be mostly male characters in this show, which there are, but you were not expecting her addition to it.

Yeah, especially because, you know, Raphael died. So that's how we got Oxy. So you're expecting Oxy to die to get the next person. But Jolenta kind of jumps in mid-story. And you're like, oh, she's kind of a main character. She's kind of a protagonist. We follow her story. And we'll touch more on her and Noak later. Because it's kind of like the culmination of a lot of arcs in one. But there's so much symbolism there from her gloves given to her by her Inquisitor father,

that she doesn't wear when she slides down the rope to sneak in to these, you know, educational meetings that she's not allowed to go to. So she like has to put on the gloves to hide the scars, like to hide the shame of what she's doing. And that's gloves that were given to her by people who are similarly trying to hide the truth. It's just poetry. And I really like her. I sympathize with her. There's so many moments where,

Similar to Raphael, she gets questioned by the person who could help her to say like, did you write this? Did you publish this academic paper? And you want her to say yes. You want her to take the credit and be the person, be the wings of change and do all that stuff.

But we know that's dangerous and we are shown why. And you just have to crestfallenly watch or be like, no, I didn't do the work. I didn't, I don't deserve credit. It's not me. And you just are crushed by it. It's so tragic. Yeah. And I think oftentimes, like we'll get frustrated with that kind of development because you're like, why don't you just, because you, because as a viewer, you kind of get a feeling for different characters. You kind of get a feeling that like, oh, they'll be okay. Like,

This is the type of character that would support the main character in their endeavors, even if the main character doesn't think so. But in this case, we have already seen several examples of people getting tortured and killed. And as she mentions, it's an added-on feature that a woman in particular would be a major target of this situation.

a siege on, on people. So she has a real and, you know, demonstrated reason why she has to be extremely careful with who she talks to. Yeah. I think that was the best of the torture scenes. It sounds weird to say that because witch hunts were very, very real thing, very much part of the Euro Western history, unfortunately. And, um,

you could say, and it's one of those things where you could say anything and it didn't matter. It was exactly as they showed it. And I had recently read a book about the witch hunts, both that took place in Salem. There were some that took place in Sweden, all over Scotland. And just France was another very, very big place. So unsurprising when she is trying to just deny this and get through this and not get tortured. And they're,

Wanting to believe her because why would she lie about this? And you see in the back room that it's all a ploy for Antony to like move up the ranks in bishophood. Very, very realistic. A lot of the witch hunts were, I want that guy's farm, so I'll accuse his wife of being a witch or accuse him of being a witch just because I've got sway within the community. And so I thought that was...

a very excellent demonstration of that level of frustration and that there was no winning. And we had already seen that portrayed in the previous witch hunt with a different woman and how it just, that was the time. And that was what inquisitors just did. They thought they were doing the right thing by their religious standpoint, but they also were. Yeah. And then we get a character added in who like,

we see has this revelation that this is not right. Like, even if I tried to justify this, I cannot go through with this and lets her go and dies for it, which I thought was a great addition. Because, like, one of the best things about the show is that it would be so easy to say, everybody in religion, bad, evil, this is wrong. And then you'll see that most of the characters in this show still believe in their religion, which is so...

It's so accurate. Like people are not 100 percent evil most of the time, you know, and it's not religion. That's the evil thing. It's it's the thing that it's the it's the what's the what's the word? What's the word I'm looking for? People interpretation, interpretation and ambition through religion.

And then, you know, in addition to that, we got Noak, who like this is his main character moment, too, where because leading up to this, except for maybe like one or two scenes with Raffle in the beginning, this is where we see him as a normal person, too, with who loves his daughter and will do anything for her. And it destroys him in the end.

So, and then the whole drama of him going after the girl who turns out is his daughter and it's just, ah, we'll get to that later. Well, I think we should get to that now. I think, well, part two is good. I think we should probably dive into part three so we can get to some of the meat of those developments. Yeah, so like, Nohaka is just a stand, along with Raffle, definitely a favorite in this series. Just...

so complicated because he really is a good dad and he loves his daughter uh except i'm a little bit surprised by the fact that he um he let he encourages his daughter in the pursuit of astronomy because he knows he should know just how what a what a thin tightrope that is in this world

But she wouldn't sin. She's his precious daughter. She knows better than to question the Lord and the writings that he's been defending for the past 35 years. I know. It's just like even with that belief that there's no way she could possibly because she's also a girl and you will do anything to protect your children. So I'm surprised that he didn't say like, oh, you're a great scholar. Maybe get into, I don't know, math, not astronomy. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, so part three takes place 25 years after part two. Oxy and Bedeni are no more, but Jolenta is still kicking around. What do we think about that big reveal?

I loved that. I loved that she ended up being the leader. It's what I wanted. I loved her, her sweeping dialogue of showing how she has evolved to do some dark things. She's killed people. Like I thought it was beautiful how she revisits her friends and reading the book and the writing all over again. I liked her sacrifice, how she went out. Um, she is probably my favorite character. Um,

Even more so than Draka. And Draka was interesting. I'm not saying they were a bad character. I think she's complicated. She's our only atheist character, which I thought was really unique.

But I loved Yolanta and I thought that she had some of the best lines about just what is it? What is freedom? Freedom is the like ability to think something along those lines. It was just so empowering to see. And even in the darkness and even in her death,

She gets to continue to move forward in this world in passing off the torch. Unfortunately, all the best parts of part three were carryovers from parts one and two. I was not a huge fan of Draka. The whole motif of part three was convictions. It wasn't truth. It wasn't that search. It was more about, you know, what do you believe in to the point that you will die for? What will you stick to?

And Schmidt's and Draka's back and forth was just a bit lackluster compared to what we had been getting before, especially with how heavy handed the show was with making sure, you know, oh, Schmidt will contrast his love of the morning sun versus how Draka is so sad by it. And it was just a little too on the nose. And just because Draka says, oh my gosh, Schmidt, you're so long winded doesn't make sense.

the long dialogue scenes any less burdensome. I get that this is not the best show to binge, but this was the first part where I felt like it was just a little too dragged out and slowed down and I wasn't getting enough intellectual or emotional payoff to make it worth it. Yeah, this is also the point where I was feeling like, okay, we got a lot of characters here, a lot of different characters, and that's, you know, that's fine. It's just they are getting so frequently introduced and disappearing that

And I just feel like I couldn't connect with them very well because I'm like on its surface, I like Draka, but I was feeling like, okay, just how long is she going to be sticking around for? And same thing with Schmidt and same thing with, you know, the other characters in this arc, um,

And as you said, Mason, I did think that the symbolism was a little on the nose here with her being sad about the sun and him loving the sun. Though I do feel like him worshiping the sunrise was a very nice moment because even if he takes this praise of the sunrise very literally, I do think that is something that people could connect to, like feeling the warmth of the sun rising and just like that's when you feel alive kind of moment. Yeah.

No, there's plenty of good moments in the show, but unfortunately, Orb was just operating at such a high level that when it resorted to just general good anime writing...

It felt like a step down and like it was still had great moments. I love the arc. A lot just happened. It just was the most action in a sense. So if you were finally like, oh, they're done talking about the planets are actually trying to do printing presses and trying to do this. And there's sabotage and subterfuge and the bad guys actually taking our side. And it just it culminated in a lot of ways. It just wasn't.

as engaging and it's hard to really point to a specific thing why and i think now is a good time generally just the most main character of all of them is no walk this inquisitor who has been

doggedly pursuing heliocentrism maybe off and on in some cases but for the entire 35 years of this show he's always been a force he's always been there and we finally get his conclusion to his Hans Landa and glorious bastards-esque arc of being just this playfully terrifying man who is pursuing at every step our main characters and always a force of nature that is frightening and

I generally like his arc. It's not quite as big and juicy and dramatic as you might want. It's a little weird how low-key he's just lugging a hand around, but overall, it's pretty fine. Yeah, I really enjoyed Nowak, even though, as you said, I feel like I could have used a little bit more there, but... Oh, what was I going to say? Damn it. Okay, I'll come back to that. I will say the voice actor for Nowak was phenomenal. I mean, of course.

voice acting to be able to just yeah and just to be able to like display the age range too did you remember what you were going to say okay perfect so I remember in the Oxy Badeni arc he literally says I can spot the face of a liar and then a couple of one or two episodes later the priest or whoever it was

told him that his daughter was found to be a heretic, she was burned at the stake, and we don't have her body. And maybe you could take the opinion that, oh, he's just so overwhelmed by this information he didn't notice. But I feel like if you say that you can spot a liar, you know the face of a liar, I feel like he should have spot that. And just for things to make sense.

So I was like, all throughout his initial grief scene, I was thinking to myself, oh, he's trying to keep, he knows that she's alive. He knows that this is not right. But he doesn't, and he survives the next couple decades as a drunkard.

Yeah, on one hand, I could argue, you know, he did kind of always have some intuition. He's always had that internal doubt and lack of verification. But I could also argue just generally, as you mentioned earlier, like he wasn't very aware. She was hanging out with known heretics and he didn't really associate heretics.

her with him because you could argue like when family members that are that close to him, he doesn't engage with them in the same like work manner. He's the father in that point. He's not the bloodthirsty inquisitor and he doesn't have that critical thinking skills for his own daughter in a sense because he's, I don't know. It's a stretch. You're not wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, part three, the only other thing I'll mention is, uh,

The philosophy that they talked about between, you know, the convictions and stuff that I enjoyed was contradictions. That humans are just a range of contradictions and that's okay. It's okay to feel both things. It's okay to love and hate the same character. And I think that's important. I think it's so easy to make humans black and white. And while part three was a bit more of a slog...

That was the one thing I thought was explained well and showcased well. And then we get to the conclusion of this arc where Draka manages to convince the bishop to look at this as a monetary endeavor to publish the book. Yes, yes. Okay.

I get, you know, money talks. This was a major flip-flop. Like, I know that it was his father that was the most, you know, gung-ho about getting the heretics of astronomy under control. But this was still a major thing in the church. Like, heliocentrism was a big no.

And the fact that all she had to say was, but think of the money. And he's like, you know what? I can't recall heliocentrism being a major problem in the church after all. Like, what? But it really wasn't like in real life. Yeah. Like Galileo, as we all know, like one of the big progenitors of like proposing this idea, the sun is the center of the universe. You know what happened to him? House arrest.

Like, he was still able to hang out with his daughters and do all that stuff. Like, he wasn't burned at the stake. He wasn't tortured. Like, none of this happened in real life. Like, to the degree. Like, it could have. I do want to, like, yeah, I think I want to touch on that with part four. Yeah, we'll get there. I do want to correct really quick. I think I called Badeni, like, a bishop. He's just a monk. He's not, like, that high up. Yeah.

And then, you know, following that up with him, with Anthony telling Nowak that he was the only one that was really pursuing the heretics. And I'm like, that's not true. There were other people cracking down on the heretics, not just Nowak. I mean, he still hates Nowak, though. No, but that doesn't make any sense. Why would he say that? It just doesn't.

Yeah, so I did not really like that conclusion to that arc. I think that was my least favorite because it just felt like a major shift occurred with very little pushing. That's fair. Up until this point, it has been centimeter by centimeter moving forward and even moving backward, moving forward ever so. And then all she has to say, but think of the money and that's floodgates open.

But that's honestly how a lot of things move in this world. You struggle and struggle for equality or such and such for decades. And all of a sudden the tide breaks. And I agree. It does feel dramatically sudden and like, wait, it's over a problem solved. And it's just an excuse to like rug pull and actually know it's not going to work out. Ha ha. She's bad. Like I get that. It's feels a bit undercutting literally, but yeah,

I can argue it away. I can. The ambition of the show blinds me perhaps a little bit to accept these faults in some ways. And then we got Noak's death, which I feel like will end our talk of this arc with that, unless you guys think. Yeah, I was I was I was kind of pleased with, you know, Raffle coming back as his vision of death. And I thought that was very appropriate.

I agree. I thought that was a good way to display it. And it keeps it open minded for your audience, whether you want to believe that it is a divine intervention or just something that's been hanging around his brain, that that's what his brain decided to show him in his last moments. Yeah, I think it was good. I think it proves that he internally, because Raphael constantly remarks like, I'm an illusion. I'm not real. This is

Within you like he kind of knew that yes his daughter might have still been alive Yes, I might have even seen her blow herself up like you because you're questioning it the whole time. You're like oh is Draka gonna say oh the leader was named Jalenta and he like reveals it then like you're constantly waiting for the big reveal to happen of his recognition And it just turns out it was always internal. He always had that inkling and the reveal was sweet sympathetic once again the whole he's not black and white even though he's pretty crummy and

it was fine it was fine i didn't hate it could it have been done better possibly but it serviced what the show was about so i didn't i'm not up in arms about it and i know that we're getting a little long here so if you're cool we'll just quickly because luckily part four is just like i know three episodes two episodes 24 and 25. two episodes that one yeah two episodes

Yeah. Yeah. So that's where we actually, and that's why I'm saying actually, you get real historical references. We're no longer in the city of Pete. We are in, or maybe it's the country of Pete. You are actually in Poland. You are actually meeting a real astronomer that existed. It still is a historical fiction take. And because of the direction that these last two episodes took, a lot of people have questioned the,

Is the first parts a fiction made up? Are the first parts part of the imagination? Or is it an alternative universe? There are a lot of fan theories out there about what these first three parts are. And the reason I bring that up is because you have the reintroduction of Rafferty. I hated this. It made no sense. Why? Why? I...

I thought it was a good way to question it. Raffle looks a little different. His personality is a little different, but he's wearing the same clothes and it makes you question Raffle.

What was real and is it really coming from like a mythology of Poland in a way? But why do we need to question if it was real? I was under the impression that this show was about the nameless people along the way of the acceptance of heliocentrism. I don't need to say, oh, it was all a dream. Oh, it was a fiction. Like, why did I spend freaking 24 episodes watching something that didn't exist? Right.

And not that to say that I wanted it to be, you know, complete, like a completely accurate rendition of history. But I'm under the impression this is historical fiction. It's about the people who might have existed, the type of people who might have existed. But if in the shows...

Canon, you are telling me that Roffle did not actually die at the age of 12 by a suicide, and instead he grew up to be a completely zealous adult who murders people? That is really frustrating, and I completely... I do not think that this part exists. It ended with Yolenta.

Do you feel betrayed by Raffle because you were so attached to him in part one and his innocence and that's seeing like what he truly could have been? It's possible, but it just doesn't – He's frustrated? It just doesn't make sense. Like this was not what the show was. Like this is not – it was all a dream. It doesn't need to be that. So I'm not sure why they – like I have a lot of issues with this last couple episodes that are not just about Raffle suddenly becoming a psychopath. Yeah.

But yeah, it's just it does not feel necessary.

Sorry for being very passionate. No, no. Well done. I respect your decision. Okay, Nathan, what were you thinking? That is what you believe and that is important. It is important for us to come together and talk about these ideas. I did not like it at first, but at the end of the day, it challenges you in the way that the themes of the show, I think, are trying to... Yes, it hurts to see our boy butchered in character this way, but I think it's...

It's not good in the moment, but I like it overall. I like what it's trying to tell us. I think it's about the dangers of science. It's about so much more than just hand wavy fictional history. It makes it feel more grounded in that the truth isn't always known and you kind of want to look stuff up yourself. I think it worked. I feel like Emery has a much more cognizant way of putting that.

Oh, man, I don't know if I do. I think that when I first got a flavor for it, maybe that's it is. It's kind of like a vaccine. When I first got the shot, I felt really grouchy afterwards, but I feel great now. So I definitely see your point of the frustration. I think my frustration was as I realized in the moment that Rafa Raffel was one of our only characters that was not familiar.

bitter, um, in the sense that like he was too perfect in the story. He was, he was, he was our true good boy, which is great. And I'm not saying that those people don't exist. I'm just saying that those people don't exist, I guess. Like they, it's not that they can't exist. Just all of us have a little, little bit of complexity, a contradiction within us that

And I think this was a good way of exploring this idea of you won't really know the truth of the matter if this was an alternative universe and you're seeing Raphael or if this is a reincarnation later in life because they don't tell you 25 years later, 35 years later. They just give you a date. They give you the location. And you're allowed to draw your conclusions as you see fit. And that's okay. It's okay that...

This is something that's left up in the air and you can have fun with it. You can go and make your own timelines. You can run all of these fan theories around it. And is it satisfying? No, but like the truth isn't always satisfying. I disagree. It's romantic. It's fictionalized to think of this perfect boy who sacrifices life for his ideals of sciences. But like.

We don't know. We don't know what it was or how it got spread. And it makes you think, like, about both sides of the story. Okay, Albert. Albert hears the letter being read by this guy. It says, give 10% to Petoskey about the orb on the movements of the Earth. So this is a book that got written. It got written by somebody. And by somebody, I mean Oxy, who got the idea for Raffle. So Raffle exists. It happened. It did.

You don't know that he exists. It was just a story that was told. It's in the same way that Beowulf is maybe a story, maybe mythology. It's the same way that like, I'm going all Norse on this, but like, I think it's Ragnar. He was a historical figure, but was he really a historical figure or an amalgamation of a lot? King Arthur is another example of like these historical records that are sort of mythologically told and

And you don't really know the realism, like what part is the real part? Is there a different person involved? And what's romanticized? And so, yeah, he might have been a real person. There's no judgment there that he could be real, but he could have also just been...

made up for the sake of moving heliocentrism forward. But then why are they the same person? Why is the person, the fictionalized person, the same person that taught Albert? It doesn't make sense and there's no reason for this to be this way. If you put them side by side, they don't actually look identical. If you actually put the drawing side by side. They have the same name. They have the same hairstyle. Nobody else in Poland has this hairstyle except Rofl. He has the same outfit. He's the same.

same person and I just if they give me a reason but Raffle was originally from the country of P what is P is P Prussia is it Poland who knows I just don't understand why they felt the need to do this it doesn't really it doesn't call back to anything in the story it doesn't make sense and like I just want to let's finish this part of the conversation because obviously we will not agree and I still don't understand but

That's okay. That's okay that we don't agree. That's the whole point of war. I feel like half the people are going to be agreeing with both of you. So you're not wrong. Any closing comments on this before we briefly touch on art? I feel like we need to talk about Albert still because we haven't actually talked about him. Because I feel like with him...

He's only two episodes long. He's a real figure. Go to Wikipedia. He's the recruiter of the story. I just feel like his inclusion to the story is very quick. And his significance is relegated to epilogue text. And I feel like they should have...

They should have made him the big, like, they should have given him two more episodes. Because if he's, like, the only real-life character here, I feel like in order to get the conclusion of what this was all for, we needed to see how he gets to that conclusion and how it affects the world.

Especially since it feels like a lot of what happened in this show was kind of for nothing. The only thing that gets passed on through time and space is the title of the book that Oxy wrote, which is Orb on the Movements of the Earth. And if that is the thing that kicks off Albert's teaching of Copernicus and how that ends up being the finale of this long story,

epic of this theory, I feel like it should have been a little bit more than just this random title of a book. It could have happened, like, if that's the thing that inspires him, heliocentrism is a known theory. Why is this random book title inspiring him and not just the knowledge that this theory exists?

Right? It just seems really strange and kind of silly that everything that led up to this point, it's just the book title that gets it done. You guys disagree. Inspiration has to come from somewhere.

I do disagree, but that's okay. I think your criticism is valid. It's a contradiction. That's the whole point. We get to be contradictory people. But no, I agree with you. That is a frustration, and I think it's absolutely a valid point. I didn't mind it, and I didn't want this to go on for too long, and I thought that the way they ended it so I didn't have to focus on a truly historical figure worked for me. Okay, let's finish this.

Oh, wait, I forgot my gripes. Okay. My simple gripes. Do your list of grievances. Yeah, as you had mentioned before, so many instances of characters talking and taking their sweet time when there are literal countdown clocks

to them getting killed or captured. So we got Oxy and Bedeni doing that. We have Yolenta and the Impressus Inquisitor doing that. We have Draka and Schmidt doing that. It's just so frequent. And then some other things that just don't make sense. As he said, the bridge collapsing and Oxy catching Grasp by the necklace is absolutely insane.

I was always wondering how the necklace fell into that heretic's hands after Raffle to give to Oxy and Gras. How did that work? Because it seemed to me that it didn't pass on, but somehow it did. And the knowledge of the box, for some reason. Um...

How did Bedeni transcribe Oxy's book when he burned it immediately after just skimming it? So he can't, he doesn't know the contents of the book. He did barely looked at it and he. He had been reading it every night. Oh really? Like during the process of it being made? Yeah. Like I think every night, like he would read the latest entry or something. I'll give it that because I actually, that does kind of, I might remember something like that, but yeah.

Or he probably, like, read it and, like, wrote some of it on the beggar. Yeah, anyway. Also, when did he burn that book? It's still a far-fetched thing at best. When does he burn, like, when does he burn that book? Was it before or after he did the major book burning? I don't get it. As I said, Antony's opinion on heliocentrism flip-flops way too simply. And then to finalize it with another thing we've already talked about, Raffle being there for some reason and alive and murdering Albert's dad.

So there we have it. Those are my grievances. You're missing the most egregious grievance of all, and it'll be quick. So I think we all agree the art and animation, pretty plain at the best of times, pretty puppet janky at others. It doesn't really interfere with the story or ideas, but it's really not going to wow you outside of some really nice skyscapes. I would say the biggest sin, though, in this entire thing, besides some weird writing grapes,

is Lewandowski's hair. That's the guy who's like Underschmidt with like the four spiky Sonic-esque things. I agree. I agree. I get that Raphael's haircut is a bit unique. Sure, fine, whatever. Like, you're not going to tell me the tonsures of the monks aren't silly to begin with, but how much hair gel he must have had in that time frame. Like, why then did they finally be like, you know what? Forget it. Anime hair for everyone. Yeah.

So that was pretty bad. And different colored. And Draka's, you know, gravity defying hair ponytail. Straight up ponytail, yeah. Yeah, totally agree on that. Because I was, another thing I was going to mention was how I thought it was great that they kept to the whole partially shaven heads of the monks and the priests and stuff. Because, I mean, it's not a look, but it's kind of accurate that they would do that. So I appreciated that.

No, that was fine. I didn't have a problem. And I liked how they were all still slightly different from each other. I didn't like the constant speed lines that they would put. That kind of cheapened it in a couple moments of gag when someone was throwing up and they put weird katakana on. Whatever. The foley effects were a bit underwhelming. Music was fine. Last thing, though, before we score this thing. The opening changes...

were phenomenal totally great from the aging of characters the similar settings of like dropping the orb versus dropping the cross into the fire the uh badeni's noose that shows up in part three like there's so many little things the opening besides just being a phenomenal song some great

Just passing the torch along. Like just where you would have to like question yourself. You're like, I don't think, I think that slide is new. I think that one's new. Yeah. And then you find yourself like going and watching like the four all overlaid on one YouTube video. So you can see like how thematically and phenomenal. Great, great opening. Are we ready to score this thing? I am. I know it's been a long one listener. If you liked us talking about it, you probably like the show because there's a lot of talking in it.

Amber, you want to lead off? Yeah. One of the things that I didn't touch on was music and sound design, but we just touched on the opening. So you get it. I very much enjoyed it. This was absolutely my kind of show. I liked the writing, the philosophy. Where this fell apart was the animation, the cinematography. There are bad choices in the rules of thirds. I don't mind if you break the rules if you know how to use the rules to begin with. So for me, this is getting...

Four and a half tonsures out of five. That's right. One of the monks just slipped and we didn't quite get all of the little circle. Nice.

I know I have a lot of gripes. I was probably the most gripey of the three of us here. But I oftentimes have more gripes for shows that I really liked than I did for the ones I really didn't. Because this one had a lot to talk about. It had a lot of highs, a lot of lows in some places. But I feel like the high is overwhelming. And the characters, you can't really get

You can't really get these characters in a lot of shows. And the setting, the story, and the music, the OP, it's just a really good show despite its flaws. So with that, I'm going to give this four people falling off a bridge to be saved by a thin thread out of five.

And just to quickly wrap this up, the show's not perfect, obviously, but the ambition, the maturity, just the potential showcase across the board, I can forgive a lot of its sins. And it's just really impressive. It's a show about standing on the shoulders of giants, of those who came before you, and expresses that both within and outside of the show, extending bidirectionally into the past and the future. It makes you think, it made me think, and I really enjoyed it.

I want to give it a five out of five, but unfortunately we've got to take a 10% tax going to that awful bridge scene and 10% of the score has to go to Potaki. So it's going to end with a four out of five. And I think, I think that's pretty good for this show. And I hope that if you watch it, you enjoyed it because I think despite all the gripes, as you said, we were only complaining because it was so good and there was so much to talk about clearly. So thank you, Caroline. Thank you, Emery. Thank you listeners for sticking with the super long episode.

next week we're going to be reviewing medalist hopefully a bit uh a bit easier to get through uh follow us on twitter facebook discord tiktok all the places subscribe for the bonus content but pretty much just gotten that whole bonus content in this episode we appreciate you so much we'll see you next week bye