I imagine many of you are familiar with my internet addiction. Why? Well, because I talk about it all the time. And I imagine some of you are sick of hearing me talk about it. I understand that as well. However, the journey to finding healthy balance with the internet and technology at large is an ongoing journey that humanity as a whole is going through all at once. Don't pretend like you don't have an issue.

with internet addiction, listen, it's different for all of us. Some of us are better at managing internet addiction than others, but I would argue we're all in one way or another addicted to the internet and addicted to technology in a way that is not good for our wellbeing overall. And it looks different for everyone. It's on different levels for everyone, but I think it's a universal problem.

There's something so cringe about being like, come on, you guys, we have to stop going on the internet so much when it's literally the backbone of our society at this point. And it's something that we would struggle to live without. And it's something that brings a lot of joy and positivity in a lot of ways as well. But at the same time,

It's so easy to get to a place where we're overdoing it. We're overusing it. I'm very aware of my unhealthy tendencies with the internet and with technology. And I am determined to getting to a good place, to getting to a balanced place that's sustainable.

Because I've tried things that have worked temporarily, but I've never really been able to crack it fully. Like I tried a dopamine detox a while ago. Basically, the idea of that is that you remove all things that release dopamine in your brain in a big way, like going on the phone, watching TV, eating junk food.

And you're forced to exist in a very simple way, ideally to help you build motivation to do simpler tasks that are necessary, like get your work done or cook a meal for yourself or read a book. Like it's basically hypothetically a way to retrain your brain to enjoy mundane, crucial tasks more.

And I think that there is something valuable about that. Like I definitely benefited from that experience, giving myself sort of a stimulation detox. It's definitely a controversial way of handling things, but I actually found value in it. However, it didn't really stick long term. Like I couldn't live in the state of dopamine detox all the time because I do need to go on

Sorry, I don't need to. But I do want to go on social media sometimes. And I do want to online shop sometimes. And I do want to order food delivery sometimes. And I do want to eat junk food sometimes. You know, I...

I don't want to live in a way where there's no indulgence at all because I don't think that's healthy either. But after ending the detox, I eventually went back to my old habits, which was unfortunate. A lot of the things I've tried have not stuck. And so I'm on the journey to finding new tactics that will work better. And I think I have found one. This episode is brought to you by Walmart.

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Plus, you can accept payments any way you like, and their SEO tools help people find you online. Head to squarespace.com slash Emma for a free trial and use code Emma to save 10% on your first purchase. Let me discuss my internet addiction and why it's such a problem. My internet addiction, I would say, exists mainly on the phone.

I would say on my computer and iPad, I have a healthy balance of, you know, doing some indulgent things like online shopping, going on Pinterest, you know, doing things that are somewhat indulgent. But for the most part, I'm good at accomplishing my tasks on the computer, on the iPad.

I don't get as distracted on those devices. I don't tend to go on social media on those devices. I don't watch as much content or consume as much content on my computer and iPad. I tend to do most of that on my phone. So I'm happy with my relationship with my computer and my iPad. Those are really just for work for the most part.

It's the phone that really fucks up my balance. Number one, because on the phone, social media is in your pocket at all times. I spend way too much time on social media. I don't think it makes sense for everyone to delete social media and just completely be off of it. Like I enjoy social media. There's a lot to be gained from social media for me in a lot of ways. I've realized like

I get a lot of inspiration from social media, from people creating art and doing cool stuff or traveling to cool places. Like I don't hate,

social media in all ways. I connect with people on it. Someone follows me and I'm like, oh, I actually am a fan of them. That's cool. Actually, I don't really follow anyone on Instagram, but I'm going to message them and maybe we'll hang out. I've met so many people through Instagram. There's a lot of good there. However, when it's in your pocket all the time, you end up going on it way too much. I'm in line at the grocery store. I'm on Instagram. I'm laying in bed

And instead of, you know, reading a book before I go to bed, I'm scrolling through reels. When it's in your pocket, when it's on your phone, the thing that is on your body at all times, almost, it's very hard not to go on it all the time. So I spend way too much time on social media. And what does that do for me? Number one, it makes me anxious. Just for some reason, the overstimulation makes me anxious. I end up doing toxic things on social media. Like

I'll be like, Ooh, you know, what's that person doing? I'm going to check up on what they're doing. And then I start stalking people that maybe make me feel insecure about myself or I'm stalking people that are ultimately not in my life anymore. And I shouldn't really be checking in on what they're doing because I kind of need them to be out of my life. There's a reason why they're out of my life. I don't really need to see what they're up to. You know what I'm saying? And I,

end up getting anxious from that. And overall, it just puts me in a negative headspace. I've also found that being on social media too much also makes me feel unmotivated. I think it's because going on social media releases so much dopamine that it makes it hard to then go and do a somewhat tedious task like do your dishes or get your work done because you've released all this dopamine. Now you don't have any left to release when you want to do these more mundane tasks. And

That will be satisfying when you complete them, but it's harder to motivate because they're not as, as I've heard online, dopaminergic, I think, which means like they're not as satisfying in a way. They're still satisfying, but they're not as satisfying.

And then last but not least, going on social media too much causes me to feel disconnected from reality. Like I feel weirdly dissociated when I'm on social media too much. And like my brain is not existing in the real world. It's existing in that world. Like all of the values and priorities and things that are happening on social media become what is happening in my real life instead of what's actually tangibly happening in front of me. Does that make sense?

And it's overwhelming. Like when you're living in the real world, there's much less going on. You're just experiencing what you and your close loved ones are experiencing and what's happening at the grocery store and what's happening at your favorite coffee shop. And that's kind of it. And that's a much more relaxing and calm existence. When you're going on social media constantly, it's always in your pocket. You're always on it.

you end up believing that social media is real subconsciously and then you live in that universe. Whereas when you just tap in every once in a while to check in on, you know, what your loved ones are posting and what your favorite artists or creative people are doing and drop a few likes and then you get off, that doesn't really get in the way of your reality. Another thing I've noticed is that I'm constantly overstimulated.

whether it's from, you know, Instagram or platforms like that, or it's from YouTube. I also am very addicted to YouTube.

I don't really consider YouTube a social media, but it is an entertainment platform. I am so addicted to watching YouTube. Like I go through these phases where not a moment goes by throughout the day where I don't have a YouTube video playing. It's so bizarre and it's so weird and it's so bad unless I'm working and I really can't have that noise playing when I'm eating breakfast, when I'm eating lunch, when I'm eating dinner, when I'm working out.

If I'm working out at home, at least if I'm at workout class, I'm not playing a YouTube video. That would be very weird. But I don't have any time to just sit in silence when I'm constantly bombarding my brain with content, you know? And listen, I learn a lot of amazing things on YouTube. In fact, I actually consume a lot of really positive content. Like I watch a lot of business analysis stuff for some reason. I really...

I mean, I guess it makes sense because of Chamberlain Coffee. And I think that's why I'm so curious about what's happening in the world of business. But I've learned a lot and I've genuinely found so much value in the past few years by consuming a fuck ton of YouTube. And there's also stuff that's funny and just like genuinely enjoyable to experience. And so it's not all bad, right? But being overstimulated

is bad and not ever giving your brain a moment to just wander without any other variable. So that's not good because, you know, a lot of my job is in some ways creative, coming up with different ideas in order to come up with ideas and to get into that state where I'm coming up with ideas. I need to be bored at times. I need to sit in silence sometimes and

That needs to happen frequently throughout every day. Like I need to have moments of silence and almost boredom every day while I'm say doing chores or on a run or eating my lunch or doing whatever. I need moments where things are quiet or else I can't be creative. And on top of that, I end up feeling disconnected from myself when I'm overstimulated. Like

When all of my thoughts are not my own and instead they're things that I saw online, I end up losing the impossible to explain connection that I can feel to myself when I'm the most grounded. When I'm spending, you know, multiple hours a day in dialogue with myself, that is when I feel the most connected to myself. And that can only happen in moments of silence, in moments of boredom.

There's a lot of things that I rely on the internet to do that I should be doing in person, like online shopping, ordering food, grocery shopping. You really miss out on the experience of people when you do all of these things online. But it's so easy to just be like, oh, I'm just going to get my groceries delivered. Oh, I'm just going to get dinner delivered tonight. Oh, I'm just going to order all this stuff online.

On top of that, you tend to overdo it. Like I feel like when I'm shopping online or consuming things online, my eyes are bigger than my stomach. Like when I'm ordering clothes online, there's something about ordering online where I end up ordering more than what I need. When I'm ordering dinner, I'll be like, oh, all of these things look good. I'm just going to add them all to the cart. And then I postmate something and I have way too much food. And obviously I eat it for leftovers and it's like not a big deal, but it's just sort of wasteful and weird in a way. It's like, why am I doing that?

Or when I'm ordering groceries, the opposite will happen. And like, I'll end up not discovering, you know, new things because I'm not walking through the aisles or miss out on the opportunity to be inspired to cook something because there's, you know, a piece of produce that's in season and they have an abundance of them in the store. You know what I'm saying? Like it fucks up the whole process on both extremes. And then with food specifically, like ordering food delivery,

you miss out on cooking. And cooking is so delightful. Eating home-cooked food is very important, I think, at least in my life. And, you know, when it comes to breakfast, brunch, or lunch, or whatever, you know, my first half of the day looks like, I'm usually pretty good about making that food at home. But when it comes to dinner, I'm always like,

oh, I already did enough. I'll come up with some sort of excuse to order in. And I miss out on so many experiences when I order food in. I miss out on eating at a restaurant, which I actually very much enjoy. I miss out on cooking and I miss out on the grocery shopping that was needed for that. That could have invited a delightful human experience.

We really undervalue the mundane day-to-day sort of interactions that we have with people. And those moments can be really reassuring that humanity is not so bad after all. For the most part, people tend to help each other out and be really kind and polite. And it's really nice to be reminded of that, especially when...

social media tends to feel the opposite of that. Like nobody's really helping each other. There's a lot of like really horrible, you know, conversations happening at all times, whether it's horrible because it's mean or bullying or it's horrible because it's drama or it's horrible because it's,

you know, horrible events happening in the world, whatever it is, it can make you believe that there's no good in the world, which is not true. Now, believing that there's good in the world doesn't take away from the bad in the world because that absolutely exists as well. And we should not turn a blind eye to it. But we also need to remember that there is good in the world because if we don't, I don't know how we'll survive. Another piece of my internet addiction is

the time wasted, whether it's endlessly scrolling on online websites, looking at different things to buy, or it's scrolling on social media, or it's watching too many YouTube videos, or it's whatever. I waste so much time doing stuff on the internet that's pointless when I could be

reading books, discovering new hobbies or pursuing existing hobbies or consuming things that are more artistic, such as, you know, a really cool movie or documentary or TV series. Like there's so many things that I could be doing that could help me learn more about the world that could help me learn new skills. Like there's so many more things I could be doing with my time that would

improve me as a person, but also improve my quality of life. And I'm not giving myself enough time to do them because I'm on the internet all the time. So this internet addiction that I've been struggling with for years and years, as I think most of us have, has led me to some dark places, you know, like really, really bad phases of severe anxiety, really dark phases of, you

And just overall having a sour brain, like being on the internet too much just rots the brain. Like that's the best way to put it. It really does rot your brain in all ways, mental health and just perspective and lens wise. Like it's just all bad when you're overdoing it.

But at the same time, I don't want to get rid of it completely. I enjoy ordering things online sometimes because it's really easy because you can just find exactly what you want. Like a lot of times when you go into the store, they won't have your size or something. It's easier to order things online. Yes, absolutely. It's fun to get inspiration from social media or Pinterest or whatever.

It's fun to watch YouTube videos sometimes. It can even be educational. There's a lot of great in the internet. And I spent a long time feeling like it was all evil, that there was no saving grace. But I don't think that that's necessarily true. And I do think that there's something about it that's magical. But what I've been trying to figure out is how do I take what is good with the internet and then leave behind what is bad? How do I find balance?

And again, I've been searching for this for so fucking long, but I recently have tried something new. Okay. Now this might be controversial. I don't know. I don't know what, what you will think of this, but I've recently decided to have two phones. Okay. I know this seems extreme, but hear me out. I just want to try it as an experiment and see how it goes.

I noticed that having social media and shopping apps and food delivery apps and all these other things on my phone in my pocket at all times was the root of my internet addiction, truly. And so I decided to get two phones. Now, I wouldn't have done this if being on the internet, on Instagram, on YouTube, on all these things wasn't my job.

A big part of my job is being on the internet, right? If I was not in a career where being on the internet made sense, I would not have done that. I took a slightly different approach than I would maybe recommend to somebody who is not in my position. However, I'm gonna explain what I did first and then explain what I would recommend second. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp.

One skill everyone can benefit from is learning how to take time for themselves. I have been implementing a lot of self-care rituals recently because I was not taking nearly enough time for myself and it was negatively impacting my brain.

One thing that I've done is not allowed myself to doom scroll on social media in my time spent alone. I find that that just ruins the recharging benefits of being alone. I've been making more time to read books, do art and exercise because I find that all of those things make my alone time even more effective in terms of recharging.

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So let's start with what I did. So I decided to get two phones so that one phone could be my day-to-day phone. And then one phone could be basically my social media bad phone. Basically, I've named both devices. One phone is named good phone and one phone is named bad phone. You know how you can name your phone or whatever? I've named them that.

The goal of the two separate phones was having one phone that just has all the things I need for day to day, like apps that I use for work, whether it's like email apps or document apps or Dropbox or WeTransfer, all these different, you know, work related apps. And then I have obviously all of the great things that come with the iPhone, such as the maps and obviously iMessage and FaceTime and all of these different things that

And then I have some travel apps like Uber and things like Venmo and stuff like that are on there. And then I have one entertainment page on my phone where I have Spotify for music and podcasts and audiobooks and stuff like that. And then I have the book app that comes with the iPhone. And then I have a dictionary app. And then I have Goodreads so that I can track the books that I read.

that's pretty much it for my entertainment page. All I can really do is listen to music, listen to podcasts, listen to audio books. That's pretty much, or I guess look up words in the dictionary if I'm bored. And then last but not least, I have a health page, which is like, you know, all the apps for all the workout classes that I go to. Also the apps that I use to book reservations at restaurants. And then I have Yelp that helps me find restaurants in my area.

So it's kind of like food and health page. So notice I don't have any food delivery apps.

I don't have any shopping apps like Amazon or whatever. I don't have any of that. I don't even have Pinterest on this phone. It's all stuff that's healthy and inspires me to get out into the world and do things. There's nothing on there that makes me want to sit and scroll. And then on the other phone, I basically have all the things I need for social media stuff, like all my different editing apps and

Like stuff that I use to make, I don't know, like even like YouTube thumbnails, like all those different apps that I use to edit things. I have all the social media apps on there. And then I also do have food delivery apps on there as well. Just because like if I'm ever home and like maybe I'm having a bunch of friends over, I'll go and grab that phone and order dinner. Like it's not like I'm never going to order food delivery or Postmates ever again, like whatever. But it's not on my main phone now.

I know what you're thinking, Emma, why did you need two phones for this? Like, this is ridiculous. Like you can just go and use that phone whenever you want to order something on Postmates or go on social media. How the fuck is this going to work? I asked myself the same thing. And honestly, that was a risk when I went into this, you know, buying two phones and how am I going to ensure that I don't abuse the second phone?

But what I've found so far is that it's actually very easy not to go use that phone and abuse it because, number one, I put it in an inconvenient location, charging in a corner of my office. Like, it's not in my eyeline, okay? So I don't really think about this phone very often.

Unless I have a like a photo to post on Instagram or something. I'm not really thinking about this phone. The phone that's in my pocket is the phone that's like on the forefront of my mind. Like it's the one that I'm using. And when you don't see the Instagram app, when you don't see the TikTok app, when you don't see the YouTube app, you almost forget about it. And you're working with what you have on the phone that you have.

And so I've actually had no issues with going and abusing that phone, but it has been very helpful for those moments when I'm like, oh, I'm going to post something on Instagram now. I'm going to go and get my phone and do that. Or, oh, I'm going to go

I don't know, like make a YouTube video public using the app instead of like using my computer. Like it's nice that it's there and it's just quick and easy to do it. So it's been very helpful, but I haven't abused it yet. The other reason why I'm confident that I'm not going to abuse it is that I made this phone very challenging to use for anything other than posting on social media or I guess ordering food delivery. Like

I have removed all of the apps that you need for a phone. Like for example, calling, texting, email, maps, weather. I've removed all of those from the home screen so that I'm not going to end up taking this phone and like carrying it around. And then last but not least, I now have two phone numbers. One, which I can give out, you know, more liberally, I guess, is

to people who are, you know, maybe just acquaintances, somebody I'm not close to, or like when I'm at a store and they're like, Hey, can you give me your phone number? I can give them that phone number. And then I obviously have now a new phone number that's very private that only my friends and family have. So on a day-to-day basis, only my friends and family can reach out to me on this new phone that has only healthy apps on it. And it's

I'm not being bombarded by messages from people who I'm not really close to. That was also something that used to stress me out was, you know, constantly feeling like I needed to be available to everyone at all times. That's sort of been relieved by the fact that majority of people who have my number are

have my old number and now my new number is reserved for people who I'm really close to. Everyone else gets shot to that other phone, the bad phone as we call it, and I can respond to it leisurely when I'm checking that phone once every few days.

I've so far really loved this experience. Like I literally have not gone on social media, like scrolled around in quite a while now. Like the only time I've gone on social media was because somebody was like, Hey, you should check this out. And it's just, I, my brain feels so much calmer.

And I do feel more creative. I do feel more inspired. I do feel more productive. And this doesn't feel unsustainable to me. Like this is the first thing that I've done where I've been like, yeah, I actually think I can sustain this. Like all of the challenges that I was experiencing with overstimulation, lack of creativity, lack of productivity, disconnect between myself and, you know, my spirit and my brain. And I've felt relief from all of that. And I've also,

felt a lot more positive in general. Like my outlook on life has just felt so much more positive and people that maybe I used to stalk on social media who I don't really know anymore or I'm not really close to anymore, like not seeing what they're up to has been such a relief, like such a cleansing experience. There's just so many great things to it. And then not having food delivery on my phone, I've

not ordered food delivery in weeks now. I don't even remember the last time I ordered food delivery. I've been going out to restaurants a little bit more, you know, eating at places like Air One that have like a hot bar and, you know, you can sit outside and have your hot bar meal. I've been cooking a lot more. Yeah, this has just been a great experience. And listen, again, I went an extreme route by getting two phones.

I don't necessarily think that that will work for everyone. I think that's excessive for some people and I completely get it. And I think there's so many other ways to do it. I just recently did an interview with a delightful woman and I was talking to her about social media addiction. And she was saying that she deletes social media apps every time. Like, okay, so she'll post something on social media and then directly after delete the app.

And then she'll basically redownload it every single time that she wants to use it. I don't know if that would work for me because I would fear that I just wouldn't delete it. And psychologically for me, I just don't think that would work, but that works for her. So that could work for you possibly. Like another option is to use another device that you have, whether that's an old iPhone or an iPad or a computer, even a laptop using only those devices for scrolling through social media and stuff like that.

and not having the app on your phone. The only problem is you can't upload onto Instagram using your computer. Like you can only scroll. And then for some of you, it might make sense to just delete them all together. Like, you know what? Fuck it. Like I want to go cold Turkey and I just want to not even have these things in my life anymore. And I think that that's

a great solution as well. But either way, I think removing the addicting pieces from your pocket is an unbelievably effective method. And I think it's been the most effective method that I've tried so far. I don't know. I just think that my life has really become more beautiful since.

I'm like playing board games and doing puzzles and all these things. And I'm listening to a lot of music. Like I'm discovering a lot of new music to keep it fresh. I'm discovering new podcasts and stuff, or at least trying to. And I just think overall, it's been a really great experience. And I really, really recommend it. It's been life changing. And I feel for the first time ever, I feel free. Like I really do feel free from the addiction. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. Squarespace sites just feel nicer.

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Did I have a moment of withdrawal? Yes. Less than I expected though. Like I found that, you know, a lot of the moments when I would normally go and scroll on social media, I end up just sort of sitting in silence in a way that's not really even noticeable. Like for example, at the grocery store or at the dentist office when I'm like waiting in line or waiting for it to be my turn. A lot of times I used to go on social media in those moments and

I either just people watch or zone out and think about something. Or if I'm really like for some reason in the mood for entertainment, I'll open up my book app and I love reading books on my phone. It's actually very pleasant. So I'd recommend that. I haven't really had any withdrawals there.

When I'm eating, I think I've had a few moments where I've been like, dang, it'd be nice to watch something. But I'll either just eat in silence or eat while listening to music or eat while reading, which is something I've loved doing recently, like just eat and read a book. I mentioned that in my last episode, how much I love that. So that hasn't been too bad. I've definitely been getting bored when I've been working out. I've been working out on my own recently. I've stopped going to workout classes as often and I do a lot of solo workouts. And

And I kind of miss watching YouTube videos while I'm doing cardio. But I force myself to just listen to music and use that time to brainstorm various things. And that's actually been very, very helpful. I think the thing I miss the most is actually watching YouTube all the time, like constantly consuming YouTube. I almost miss that more than scrolling through social media. I don't really miss that as much.

I think that I sort of have a little fear of missing out. Like, oh my God, what's everyone posting? Like, I want to know. But then very quickly, I'm like, I don't need to look right now. And then I get over it and forget. So the withdrawal symptoms have like not been that bad. I did have a few days, especially in the beginning, where I did feel like this eerie silence almost in my life. Like it was almost like things were too calm, too quiet, too, the pace was almost so slow. It was like,

jarring for me. And that kind of caused me a bit of anxiety, but that passed very quickly. Overall, it's been phenomenal. So listen, take my experience, analyze it and do what you will with it. You know, we're all different and what makes sense for us is all different and figure out what works for you. But I definitely think that everyone could benefit from finding their method of balance when it comes to the internet. And I think it's not a waste of time

It's not just like, you know, like a silly overreaction about the impact that the internet has. It is absolutely not that. I can tell you there is a sharp increase in my quality of life since I've taken the internet and removed it from my pocket. I wish you luck on your journey. And that's all I have for today. I hope that you enjoyed this.

And, you know, maybe this will be one of the last conversations I have about internet addiction because maybe this is the time that I actually get it under control. What a delight that would be. But we will see. And I will keep you updated along the journey to stay updated with anything goes. Tune in Thursdays and Sundays anywhere that you stream podcasts, although video is exclusively on Spotify for interview episodes.

Check out Anything Goes on social media, which is ironic because I just talked about how much social media can be bad for the brain. At Anything Goes, you can find me on social media at Emma Chamberlain and you can find my coffee company at Chamberlain Coffee. You can also find Chamberlain Coffee possibly in stores near you. Go to the store locator online and see where we're at. We're in Walmart and Target and Whole Foods and hopefully some other of your favorite grocery stores.

If we're not near you, order us online and we'll show up straight to your door. That's all I have for today. Thank you all for listening. Thank you all for hanging out. I love and appreciate your time. And I will talk to you very soon. Okay, love you, bye. This episode is brought to you by Hydro Flask.

Hydration is so important. But you know, I'm somebody who loves fashion because when I'm showing up to my favorite Los Angeles workout class, I want my water bottle to be as cute as my workout set.

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