Should Lewis-Skelly’s red card have been overturned? | Is time running out for Rashford move?
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Welcome to Back Pages, bringing you everything you need to know about the biggest sports stories making the headlines in the morning's newspapers. I'm Teddy Draper and joining me are David Ornstein and Miguel Delaney. Welcome to you both.

Well, let's start with the Express and the news that Myles Lewis-Skelly has had his red card overturned. Miguel, the headline in the Express just to stop the hatred. Mikel Arteta has called on football fans to end their campaigns of hate after referee Michael Oliver received death threats. Miguel, was it an open and shut case? I know there's a few footballers suggesting lately that maybe there was a level of cynicism in the challenge from Lewis-Skelly that perhaps, in one way...

My immediate response was, it's a yellow card at worst. I thought it was the wrong decision at the time. I thought that on the replay, which made it all the more surprising, it didn't go to VAR. And I suppose there's bigger questions about that. And I suppose that's where I have actually a lot of conflicting feelings about this entire story. I mean, because I must say, I've written in the past about

as goes without saying and as I said tonight referees just shouldn't be subjected to anything even close to abuse let alone what is generally put out there when it comes to wrong decision I think it's a reflection of a lot of the way football is going a way kind of almost social media discussion is filtering into the real world as well that shouldn't be happening at the same time though that shouldn't preclude a

a space for a fair critique of decisions and even, say, refereeing. And it's funny, actually, just when that news came out today, someone in football, someone senior in football, who isn't necessarily that aligned to Arsenal, said it's a bit of a blow to the PGMOL that this has been overturned. And yeah, so I do think there's multiple strands to this story. But ultimately, there was the correct decision with the fact it was overturned.

It's an interesting one in terms of the analysis of it, David, as well, isn't it? People rushing to abuse online with vile death threats and everyone is very upset about that. But it's also a delicate situation in terms of the refereeing process. VAR, Darren England, not intervening at the weekend to aid Michael Oliver. We want that in this instance, but presumably we don't want it all the time. How difficult a call is that for the PGML to advise going forward?

It is really difficult. These are subjective calls, unless it's the offside mechanism. And we've been debating the decisions ever since VAR came in. We were debating decisions long before VAR came in, and we'll be doing it long into the future as well. There seems to be an awful lot of controversies more than ever before, but perhaps that's a reflection on the fact that we can see more than ever before with the camera angles. The stakes are higher, and emotions seem to be

off the charts these days, especially on social media.

The reaction is really quite something else in this day and age. And so, yeah, there's the basics with the Lewis Skelly decision, which most people think was incorrect to send him off, and it's now been overturned. But then it's almost become a completely different story in its own right in terms of the reaction. So, yeah, it was a bad challenge. The yellow card seemed suitable, and now he'll be free to play again. And it just seems incredibly sad to me that...

Immediately, a lot of people, sections of the public and wider seem to jump to conspiracy theories and suggestions of corruption. Every single team that has a decision go against them seems to allege corruption these days, which if the referees and the PGMOL are corrupt against every team, I don't see who they're favoring and who they're against. Maybe that shows it's a pretty even playing field.

And we need to kind of calm this down and try and do our little part to bring a bit of responsibility to it. And the fact that we're talking about death threats, and it's worth pointing out that most people are right-minded thinking and sane, and this is hopefully a tiny minority, but that doesn't make it okay. And it feels like it's got a little bit out of control and trust has diminished in the PGMOL, which shouldn't be the case. And

a lot's going to have to happen to rebuild that. But yeah, in terms of this, it seems we've got to the right outcome, but

we all need to take a long hard look at ourselves about the discourse around it because it just can't go on. Very difficult time for Michael Oliver, isn't it? We understand he will referee at Ipswich at the weekend, Ipswich against Southampton. But Mikel Arteta speaking well on the subject after the red card for Lewis Skelly overturned. Back page of the Sun, Mikel, let's kick abuse out. Mick's new law call as MLS red card overturned. Mikel Arteta has slammed the sick abuse aim that ref Michael Oliver and urged governing bodies to kick out.

HATRED OUT OF FOOTBALL. IS IT ABOUT THE POLICE INTERVENING IN THESE INSTANCES WITH DEATH THREATS, THREATS OF REVEALING MICHAEL OLIVER'S HOME ADDRESS? I KNOW THE POLICE FOOTBALLING UNIT SAY SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES ARE ACTUALLY MAKING THIS MORE ABLE NOW WITHIN A TIME FRAME TO PROSECUTE.

But it does feel like, I mean, that is essentially an extension we've had of other discussions about social media abuse in other areas of football or related to other subjects. It kind of comes back to the same core theme. And that almost feels like,

a separate subject than the idea of kind of discussion around referees. It's just something that shouldn't be happening and something where there's an onus, I suppose, on both social media and maybe at this point, football itself to address the level of Scotland. I mean, I realise there's a considerable irony in what I'm about to say now when we're having this discussion. But a lot of modern discourse of football, it reminds me, say, I think there's been a real shift

I'm half Spanish and I used to go to Spain every year where you consume Spanish media. And I remember 20 years ago, you'd see the front page of something like Marca and it seemed like it was obsessed with refereeing decisions or drawing lines for offside. This is pre-VAR. To the extent that it felt just unhelpful to the game and unhealthy.

Often that was being discussed at the expense of the quality of the football. And this is at a point when they had the best players in the world. And it feels like that's just true, almost creep, and over a long time, that's something that's happened in England as well now. How often does referee discussion...

dominate talk of the sport. Now, I know people will say that's because they have influence on results, but it's almost like David's reference there. It's almost like where even marginal decisions, well, okay, fair enough, even if they can be 70-30, they're blown up into something as if there's some kind of existential crisis about the decision being made itself.

Yeah, we have to accept mistakes, don't we, in all walks of life. I certainly make my own doing this show. Let's talk about Marcus Rashford, who's got a few problems, it seems, at the moment. David, back page of The Guardian, on the front page of the Sports Supplement, United Rift deepens. Jamie Jackson writing...

that Rashford and Amarim no longer on speaking terms. Jamie Wright's Ruben Amarim's relationship with Marcus Rashford has broken down to the extent that Manchester United's head coach speaks to the player only when addressing the squad generally. David, this is a bit sad, isn't it?

I think it's the sorry situation, Teddy. I guess that sort of treatment is relatively normal when a club wants a player out and they're determined to try and find a solution and the player is now on board with going, it would seem, if the right opportunity arises. We saw...

comparable situation with jayden sancho at manchester united you think back to abamiyang and erzel at arsenal and various others over the years um and it's really dissatisfactory for all parties rashford was the manchester united academy graduate born and bred he's done very well there he's got huge talent we saw his 30 goal season a couple of years ago that earned him a big contract um

that now appears to be a problem for Manchester United. It kind of dates back before now because those of us working in the industry know that United have been open to his departure for quite some time, but the right offers didn't arrive. And now they've put him on a deal until 2028 in excess of £325,000 a week.

And having decided that they want him out, there are very few suitors who are able to sort of pay that money. There is interest in him from around Europe and in the Premier League, and that's genuine interest. But it doesn't mean that they can put the right package together this January and before the deadline.

Work is going on to try and find a solution. His favourite option, I think, would be Barcelona, but that doesn't mean it's simple because they've got their own complications. And there's no guarantee this is going to happen. The door has never been publicly shut at Manchester United, but they can't really do that. So there is a world in which he stays. Will he be reintegrated under Ruben Amorim?

Will he just have to sit out the rest of the season, as Miguel sort of indicates in his article today? So, yeah, it's real shame for all parties and something that is dominating the narrative around Manchester United at the moment. It's very dominant, Miguel. I'll get your thoughts on it. It's interesting, isn't it, as Jamie Jackson writes here, off the back of saying that he prefers 63-year-old goalkeeping coach Georges Vidal on the bench to Marcus Rashford.

What do you make of the way Ruben Amarim is handling this situation? We talk about modern coaches being empathetic and having emotional intelligence. Doesn't seem like this is a great route either to advertise the player to other clubs or indeed perhaps to have to reconcile with him post-February the 3rd.

So I was at Craven Cottage on Sunday. I was about five feet away from Ruben Amram as he said it. And what was so striking about it, I mean, he'd been in such relaxed form. He was joking, obviously pleased that he'd got a win the night before his birthday and all this. And then like when he's suddenly at the end of the press conference, a question is thrown to him about Marcus Rashford. And Ruben Amram himself chose to go...

Quite a fairness, if you talk to the guys who regularly cover United, who are based up there and go to the press conference every week, even they were stunned that he'd never gone so strong in this. And the fact, like, there were three separate answers. It's almost like they escalated with each one, culminating in this remarkable statement about, you know, how he'd have Vital on the bench. Some of us had to, of course, look him up. And, you know, we were, I'd say, a bit shocked by it. The one thing I suppose...

And people talk about how it might affect his value as you referenced there, Teddy.

The one thing I would say is that really true when everyone basically knows, look, you can just look at the United lineup over the past month and a half. He hasn't been used. Everyone knows the situation. It's more about the clarity which Amram has been speaking. But interesting in that, because I was talking to a few Portuguese journalists over the last 48 hours about that, about Amram's kind of history with these sort of issues. And they can never remember doing anything like this. They would say he was actually, he was almost the opposite with players who,

He had disagreements with her issues. He would almost seek to be inclusive. But, of course, it has been a short career for Amarim so far, and this is one of the biggest challenges, and one, to be fair, as David said, precedes him. Must be very difficult for Rashford in the office at the moment, whatever his application is in training as well. He's a Mancunian Manchester United fan. Barcelona will bust the back page of the mail, says Chris Wheeler reporting that. David, what's your take on the most likely destination, location of Marcus Rashford post to window?

That's impossible to say at the moment because nothing, to my knowledge, is imminent or even particularly close. However, a lot can change in the days ahead and there are people working to make something materialise.

So, you know, you look at all the options that have been presented from AC Milan, Juventus, Borussia Dortmund, Barcelona, some teams in the Premier League quite early on, Manchester United and the Rashford camp were clear that it shouldn't be the Premier League and they will look abroad. And then it emerged that Barcelona was his preference, but they've got to get players out if they're going to be able to do it. And so, you know, I actually don't know if this is going to happen. My gut instinct is that because the players

Rift appears so deep on whoever's side you want to look at it. Something has to give. An outcome has to be found to enable Marcus Rashford to be playing football somewhere in the second half of the season. It's looking increasingly unlikely that'll be Manchester United, even though you hear suggestions that he's fit and available and ready to play and available sort of for selection.

So I wonder if something with Barcelona can somehow be found. Some of the people working on it have good links to Barcelona, but I don't say that with any certainty.

Let's hope he's back playing football soon. Either way, whether it's United or beyond. Let's go to the Express, David. Come to you. Talk Manchester City. Pet Pitcher there looking a little bit worried with the headline, Don't Let Your Guard Down. They say they'll up beat Guardiola confident City will beat club Bruges and seal a two-leg playoff. Simon Mullock reporting. Is this the biggest game of the season potentially for City? Is it keeping the City at the season alive in some ways, David?

Yeah, I think so, to an extent. There's a long way to go with...

Manchester City competing on different fronts, but certainly Pep Guardiola has described it as being like a final. And Miguel's written a really good piece today in The Independent about the new format. We'll come on to speak about that. But it's games like this that many of us wanted with proper jeopardy and consequences on the line. And I was out at the Parc des Princes last week when City lost from...

that 2-0 advantage to PSG. And, you know, however cool and calm that Pep Guardiola wants his side to be, they're not really displaying that on the pitch this season. It's been extraordinary to see how badly they've struggled. But at the same time, we know the quality is there. They've recovered from a deficit against Chelsea at the weekend. They've got their new signings through the door.

And they've been here many times before. They play tough opposition on a 20-game unbeaten run. And there'll be anxiety. Remember the night at the Etihad with Feyenoord? And I don't think it's going to be easy in the slightest, but I would expect City to come through. And if they don't, it's a huge story. I think it would be their worst performance in the Champions League since 2012-13. And...

would have an impact on finances and prestige, and it's absolutely the opposite of what they or any of us would expect of City. Yeah, not to finish in the top 24 would be remarkable, Miguel, wouldn't it? Headline in the I paper, Guardiola counts cost of failure in the Champions League. Andy Hampson with that story. I think...

That's an element to it, isn't it, Miguel? But do you think it's even more remarkable they've still got a chance of qualifying? Does that reflect how lenient this league phase is?

Yeah, like I think someone put to me earlier, the point like what is it seven points in seven games in a league in a proper league system that will be relegation for small as the sample is. But I think it's why this game and David spoke there about how potentially it's the most important to their season. It's maybe about what it would represent because City have been more impressive in the last few weeks. They've had some really good performances.

equally there's been games like against Brentford and particularly like against Paris Saint-Germain where you can see there are still major issues hardwired into the team that haven't been solved and always look like a vulnerability there it did feel a little bit on Saturday as if Chelsea didn't kind of weren't ruthless enough when they could have been

And that's why it feels like this night could be one that brings a lot of this all together. If they go out, issues have been exposed, they've gone out around where they shouldn't have, and also against a team, Brugge, who as kind of as impressive as they are with their resources, is still the sort of team that City should really be beating relatively easily.

Whereas if they go through, it can suddenly be a bit of a reset on top of better form. And even the Paris Saint-Germain game, you can say you could write it off because it doesn't materially affect maybe their next round. And I suppose they can start to talk about maybe a season like potentially Chelsea winning the Champions League in 2021 or 2012 or Liverpool in 2005, you know, overcoming league form to do it.

But, yeah, that's why there's a lot wrapped up in this one night. And as David said as well, it's why kind of the anxiety that could potentially afflict the stadium could be so big. It's going to be a very emotionally charged game, unless maybe City score early and run away with it. And one of the positive subplots for City, David, is the former Phil Foden returned to freshness. The Times carry this headline. Poor start due to fatigue, says Foden, says he was struggling after the Euros. I suppose that's the point, isn't it, David? How...

Would you rate their chances of winning it with the likes of Foden coming back to form if they can get through tomorrow night?

Well, they've got the pedigree with Erling Haaland, with Phil Foden, with Kevin De Bruyne returning to fitness and players to come back if they can keep John Stones fit and available. But the fact of the matter is they don't look the best team by any means in Europe this season. There's quite a few ahead of them and maybe not as extreme as the Champions League table suggests, but it doesn't look like it's going to be their year. And that's not a huge criticism given how well they've done.

recent history but Phil Foden back on form is really important six goals in six appearances you know it took its toll the Euros on him and he speaks about that in the papers and you know he wasn't played that much at the start he and Rodri were largely rested for a period then he couldn't work his way into the team when he was in the team he couldn't hit form but he appears to be now and City tend to hit their stride in the second half of the season so let's not write them off but they've got a massive uphill battle ahead

Thomas Tuchel, England head coach, of course, will be watching with interest as well. Miguel, I know you will be your piece in the independent. Get ready for chaos on Champions League final. Now, we've had some dissenters about the new league format, Miguel, but reading this, you're certainly not one of them. You're a big fan. Well,

Well, I wouldn't go that far actually, because to really go into the piece, there's a lot more qualifications. And I have to admit, I was very critical of it at the start. I think UEFA, and UEFA actually sent out a long email today extolling the virtues of the competition. I think the fact that you've got a night on Wednesday where there's games with a lot on the line, or sorry, with something on the line, they will point to that. That is definitely an improvement already.

from previous seasons where the old group stage had gone stale. Although I would argue the group stage had gone stale because basically of financial disparity between clubs, where it was always the kind of 15 to the 16 wealthiest that went through. But that's also where I think there's a little bit of a kind of a,

a false and self-fulfilling element about the stakes here. I mean, why is tomorrow, why are the games so big? Well, they're so big because A, two or three major clubs, basically City, Paris Saint-Germain, Real Madrid, have a bigger crisis than expected.

And B, because teams are desperate to avoid the two extra games of the playoff. Now, why have those two issues happened? They've basically happened because of the expansion of the Champions League itself. Two extra games have been forced into the calendar. That's caused, really, it's caused havoc with the calendar. Even European football in January, it's removed a winter break for a lot of teams. That's on top of a five-year adjustment from COVID-19.

and the 2022 Qatar World Cup. And as we see with the way Foden has been talking, squads are exhausted. Hence these big teams suffering these issues and hence suddenly this utter desperation to avoid this playoff. So if it was in a proper functioning football calendar that made sense,

This might not be as big as it seems, but that said, it is going to be a night where goals are going to fly in. There's going to be interest at almost every single stadium and UEFA will certainly point to that rather than maybe necessarily addressing some of the

longer-term issues that I think, or the longer-term discussion you could have about this modern Champions League. And let's not forget, it only exists because it would compromise when a lot of the big clubs are trying to get a Super League. It's a longer conversation to have a complicated context, but it will be dramatic come Wednesday, thanks to maybe Real and City and PSG misfiring. David, just time to ask you as the deadline approaches about any deals bubbling in the Premier League. We've discussed Marcus Rashford's future. Anything you're looking at intently?

I think it's going to be all about the strikers and we need to keep a very close eye on John Duran at Aston Villa because if they get a suitable offer for him, then it's not impossible that he leaves, especially because you can't really carry two top number nines at the moment. So something might have to give there at Aston Villa. And then another Evan Ferguson at Brighton. He's available for loan or even permanent transfer. And there's a lot of interest in him from across the Premier League and in Germany, too. So

Although it's been a relatively quiet window so far, I think it's going to be a really busy final few days heading into the cut-off. That's good to hear, David, as well. We'll keep across your work looking into that. David and Miguel, thank you for your company tonight. Enjoy Wednesday's Champions League football.