CZM Rewind: Part One: The Last Days of L. Ron Hubbard
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Hey, everyone. Robert Evans here. It has been quite a summer. We've had two political conventions and I am just drained. So again, we are taking a week off and running a rerun this week. We do that occasionally because everyone deserves time off, including every now and then me.

I did want to note this is an old episode on the latter days of L. Ron Hubbard, one of our our beloved podcast subjects with Michael Swaim and Abe Epperson, two of my old friends from Cracked.com. They they both have a podcast network called Small Beans, which you can back on Patreon and you can find wherever podcasts are.

And I also wanted to note and plug my friend Michael's novel, The Climb. It's an epic fantasy memoir with some magic realism elements to it. You can Google The Climb, Michael Swaim Patreon. You can also look up The Climb wherever books are sold. I'm seeing it right now on the Barnes & Noble website. There's a bunch of other places that you can find The Climb.

The Climb. So check out The Climb, Michael Swaim. Just type that into Google. And here's the end of L. Ron Hubbard.

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What's L-Running, my Hubbards? I'm Robert Evans. This is Behind the Bastards, the podcast where we talk about the very worst people in all of history. And today is our super special conclusion episode of the life of L. Ron Hubbard. And with me today to talk about the last 10 years of the craziest man in history's life is Michael Swaim and Abe Epperson. Hi. Hi. Thank you for having us. I was making...

like cheering and crowd sounds with my mouth. Oh, it sounded mechanical to me. I didn't do a good job. I thought you just did that for every 10 minutes to like seep out all the saliva from your mouth. No, no. You know what I do when I fuck something up like that though? As I toss my throwing bagels at the wall. you toss them up.

Oh, I was aware of the throwing bagel trope. I thought they were individually thrown. No, no, no. This was a three-pack, people. This is a three-pack, yeah. He's angry. And they bounced right off the wall and back to me, so I'm re-armed with my throwing bagels. We're also in a room with dozens of panels you could have targeted. You targeted one right by someone's head, I guess that's how I... Well, that's because the nature of the bounce means it won't hit Sophie if I hit the board to her left. It'll bounce right back to me. Yeah.

I'm an expert at throwing those bagels. I love that you keep them contained in the bag, though, so your vigilantism is at least kind. I didn't want to get crumbs everywhere. Exactly. You get ants and rats and stuff that way. Yeah, that's how you get rats. Yeah, and I don't want rats inside the house. I only want rats in the houses of my enemies. There's only the government acceptable level of rat in this studio, and I appreciate that. Yeah, which is five. Yeah, that's the max. Same as peanut butter. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Which is why there's so many rats. It's all the open peanut butter jars from back when I had thrown peanut butter. They're trying to rescue their rat friends who are in the peanut butter jars. See, I have five rats at home, too, and I'm in like a ratatouille situation.

I haven't seen that movie, but I think a guy cooks rats into food and then serves them to the people of France? Abe's eating rats. That's what that is. That's what he's trying to tell you. Your version of Ratatouille is the correct one. Well, I mean, the rent is too damn high in this town. We all have to eat the odd rat.

Now, did y'all both listen to the three-parter I did on the life of L. Ron Hubbard, or L.R.H.? I did. I did. Now, I gotta ask before we get in, were you surprised to learn that he, in fact, could fuck?

Oh, I was ready to immediately answer no to everything you said because I've done... Like, he's not the most obscure bastard you've covered. No, not at all. I've done my own research, but yeah, that was the one detail. You found the one detail that was surprising. I also... I was very pleased because I'm like... It's not like he needed a win. No. He definitely didn't need a win. He kind of nailed it. But it's just kind of one of those...

Just one of those things that like life just serves up to you. Like reality just says, and circumstance. Yeah. And you go, ah, yes, back to nihilism. That's when like you find out Milton Berle had a foot long dick. And you're like, why? But okay. Okay. I don't know. If there's one thing that came across in that book of a thousand Milton Berle jokes. Yeah.

I had that as a kid. Man, you just flashed me back to it. I haven't thought of it in 20 years. And I remember thinking as a seven-year-old reading that, I bet this guy had a fucking salami that could have knocked a dog's head off. Yeah, yeah. Just as a little child imagining that. It was dedicated to his testicles for all the weight they bear. As a kid, I just didn't think anything of that, you know. It just seemed like a normal old comedian talking about his balls. Exactly.

Speaking of old comedians talking about their balls, or not speaking of that at all. When we last left L. Ron Hubbard, he'd just come ashore in Florida after multiple years of shirking all the laws of land and most of the laws of sea. Old, ill, and as crazy as a cat with an inner ear infection, Hubbard launched Operation Gold Mine. This was his plan to create the Mecca of Scientology, an entire city dedicated to the religion where Scientologists could rule one another and other people based on the enlightened principles of their glorious religion. Now,

Now, you guys are going to build a mecca to your own personal religions. Where do you pick? Oh, boy. That's a great question. See, this is an improv rule. You're on the spot, first answer, no censorship. What came to mind was Portland, Oregon. No, that's a great place to have a cold. That's where I plan to have a cold. I think because I'm seeing you, but also because I've often, that's been at the top of my list of other places to live when and if I leave LA. But I also heard your episode about...

In part, the history of Portland. So I feel bad saying that. I would put mine on top of Mount Rushmore. Way better. You have more time to think. Yeah, I have more time to think, yeah. In general, on Mount Rushmore. Question is, would it be your face? Is your mecca in the shape of your face? It could be whatever the fuck I want. Okay. Just you frowning down on four presidents. Yeah, on my ongoing battle to beat the presidents. Yeah.

That is what we know about Abe. Well, L. Ron Hubbard was, as I think we've established, the craziest man who ever lived. He's a contender in that. And as the craziest man who ever lived, he picked the craziest state. And I say this as a Texan. Nobody beats Florida in the crazy state lottery. It's got to be Florida. And, of course, L. Ron Hubbard picked the city of Clearwater, Florida.

Now, there was a downside to this, which is that the site that L. Ron Hubbard and his minions selected for their faith's new capital was already occupied by tens of thousands of people who were not Scientologists. So, this was a problem, but not an insurmountable one, because L. Ron Hubbard has had, as he had, you know, in most of our last three episode episodes. Conspiracy theory just spawned. Oh, it's not a theory. Yeah.

No, has, has. He's bopping around. Oh, he's still alive? I hope his head's frozen in a jar. I'd like to see him get one more act. I'd like to see him and Ted Williams' head fight each other someday. Sure. Just rolling around. Yeah.

It's one of those things where after everything we went through in the first three episodes, it's shocking to me how much gas this guy had left in the tank. This is only the last decade, right? This is the last like 10 years of his life. Hammer that home again. This is the Game of Thrones finale episode. This is not the whole run. Most dictators get a two-part, maybe a three-part. Like L. Ron Hubbard, this is a five-parter. But wait, there's more. Yeah.

So Clearwater, Florida is located west of Tampa and north of St. Petersburg. Clear. On the far edge of Florida's Midwest coast. Yep. It has a fine harbor, which was good because L. Ron Hubbard still fancied himself a Commodore. And as you pointed out there, Michael, the city's name Clearwater made it a perfect fit with L. Ron Hubbard's religious canon. Because, of course, clear is the state of being like...

Going clear. Yeah, it's the whole goal in the Scientology canon. In 1975, when a disguised L. Ron Hubbard arrived with his retinue, Clearwater was a sleepy retirement community. It went by the nickname Sparkling Clearwater, and a third of its 100,000 citizens were over 65. It was not a place that prided itself on hustle and bustle. The town's most prominent building was the old Fort Harrison Hotel, an increasingly decrepit monument to Clearwater's glory days. The hotel was empty and for sale.

Good.

Good little gold dice. I smell a grift coming. It's almost impressive they didn't run afoul of Disney operatives buying land out from Florida residents for them to expand. If there's any group, like,

crazier and wealthier than the Disney Corporation. In this period of time, it's the Church of Scientology. Now it's Disney. I mean, we all have a long, like humans have a long history of just like, if you get enough people and put them in a spot, you can declare that yours. Yeah. Which is exactly what I plan to do someday in Oregon. Get a bunch of people. You guys saw that documentary, Wild Wild Country. Yes. Like that literally is my goal. Minus poisoning that town probably.

I saw the first four episodes. Even the important. And I was like, it's kind of boring. They're not culty enough for the part of me that wants to watch it. And everyone said something happened. So now I know they poisoned a town. Yeah, they poisoned the shit out of a town. Yeah, we're past spoiler range. I think they were kind of on the right, though. Anyway, let's move on past that. Depends on the town. Yeah. Less than a week later, the Southern Land Development Corporation bought another of the city's landmarks, the Bank of Clearwater Building. They paid $550,000, again, in cash.

Now residents started talking after this, and they talked even more when a strange old man in a green jumpsuit showed up in town and publicly announced that the Southern Land Company would be leasing the buildings to a group called the United Churches of Florida. He claimed that the United Churches would host religious meetings and seminars there.

Now, this perplexed local journalists. They could find no records anywhere of the United Churches of Florida ever existing. This was because there was no United Churches of Florida or Southern Land Development Company, for that matter. Both organizations were, of course, fronts for the Church of Scientology. Hmm.

On December 5th, L. Ron Hubbard officially announced Project Power 3, a.k.a. Operation Normandy. I shave with that. It gets really close to the grain. It's got those three blades. It's smooth. Yeah, yeah. You say that with a full beard. Look. No one at this table shaves regularly. The literature they handed me made me understand that I am clean shaven. The Scientology razor works. This is just my sin coming out of my face. Yeah, he's clear shaven. I'm going to get it audited away.

Yeah, you're shaved on the inside, which is where it counts. Little hairs, little thetans, it's all the same stuff. Now, the purpose of Operation Normandy was, quote, to fully investigate the Clearwater City and county area so we can distinguish our friends from our enemies and handle as needed.

Hubbard's overall plan to accomplish this was, quote, to locate opinion leaders, then their enemies, the dirt, scandal, vested interest, crime of the enemies with overt data as much as possible. Then turn this over to United Churches who will approach the opinion leader and get his agreement to look into a specific subject, which will lead to the enemy's crimes. United Churches then discovers the scandal, etc., and turns it over to the opinion leader for his use. Ops can be done as a follow-up to remove or restrain the enemy.

Wow. Just gets right into it with how do we deal with our enemies that we're gonna make. His tool is to blackmail so quick. Like he doesn't, like someone introduces you by pointing...

him across the room at a party like oh yeah that's my friend Elrond he's got dirt on you damn that was fast yeah I mean he's like in his 60s at this point he's experienced he knows he doesn't pussyfoot around like it's time to we're gonna make enemies so we need a plan to destroy them our mob boat has reached land begin discovering everyone's sins

You know in video games where you're supposed to have offense and defense and you have to power them both up? He's done this enough to know he's like, well, it's good to be ahead of the curve on the defense. He's been playing for a long time. Yeah, exactly.

Now, one of these enemies was a reporter for the Clearwater Sun named Mark Sabelman. Mark had been sniffing around the church's operations in Clearwater and had revealed some evidence that suggested the United Churches were really the Church of Scientology. And so, on January 26th, 1976, a church official named Joe Liza wrote up a scheme to get Mark fired. Quote, "...have a woman, elderly, go into the office and in grief and mis-emotion start screaming that she wants to see Sabelman's boss."

She goes in and sees this man and screams and cries about Sabelman sexually assaulting her son or grandson. The woman takes a magazine, which is lurid and perverted, and throws it into the face of the man-woman and screams, Look what he gave my son, not to mention what the pervert did. Sob, sob to my Johnny. I'm going to the police. If you can't do something about that pervert Sabelman, I will see that they do something to you. So, journalist...

reveals the very basic detail that they're secretly buying up land. And that at one point in time, sob sob to my Johnny was a phrase people used. Yeah, that's literally how it's written. Sob sob to my Johnny. That's like a song you would hear at the sock hop. Or like, it could be kind of like a greeting too, like sob sob to my Johnny! That should be your top for next episode. Sob sob to my Johnny's. What's sobbing my Johnny's? There we go. Yeah.

Throughout later 1975 and early 1976, Clearwater flooded with young, uniformed Scientologists. They began renovating the church's new acquisitions downtown. Their presence was strange and discomforting for locals, since the newcomers refused to answer questions on who they worked for and what they were doing.

Hubbard himself supervised the construction efforts from five miles away in a condominium complex in the nearby town of Dunedin. During his few visits into Clearwater, he posed as a photographer. His initial plan was to sneak into a respected position in local society by posing as a photographer taking pictures to encourage local tourism. In a letter to one member of the Guardian office, which was the trunk of the Church of Scientology aimed at protecting L. Ron Hubbard, he wrote, quote, Taking pictures of beautiful Clearwater is the local button. My portrait of the mayor will hang in the city hall. Never fear.

So pretentious. First of all, it's clear that he was like, well, I'm not going to live there. Find me the nerdiest sounding town. I got to live in a J.R.R. Tolkien named town. I am Elrond after all. He is. Elrond and Dunedin. Yeah, he's an elf who collided with a space telescope, Elrond Hubble, right? Which actually just turns out to be an orc. Sure.

But secondly, is he allowed back on land? I thought he was going to get arrested at any time. Oh, yeah. No, he's not allowed. That's why he's always in disguise and hiding. So he's like on the – I mean, because I thought the boat was his sort of final solve for evading the law. But even in this late stage, he's like, I'm risking it. He's risking it now. He's being hidden at this point.

He has a whole team of people. The guardian office is just there to keep people off his back. Which would sound silly if you hadn't just dropped the KKK episode where they're like the exalted Cyclops. Oh, yeah, and the King Kliegel. Oh, the clavies. Yeah. Clavies, my clavies.

Unfortunately for L. Ron Hubbard, the mayor of Clearwater had no interest in being photographed by a strange old man. He was deeply concerned with this army of anonymous invaders. At one point, he reached out to the United Churches and said, quote, I am discomfited by the increasing visibility of security personnel armed with billy clubs and mace employed by the United Churches of Florida. I am unable to understand why this degree of security is required by a religious organization. UCF more like UFC, am I right? Yeah.

It's like a reasonable question. Yeah, it seems like you brought an army to our sleepy retirement town. And also why? A Catholic priest walking down a cobblestone street like, oh, how you doing, lads? Just smacking a nightstick into his hand. That is discomforting. Yeah. I think that's the perfect word. That is the perfect word. It became clear that the Scientologists would need to stage a reveal of their organization to the people of Clearwater.

We couldn't get him! Why didn't they?

Again, one of the, like, kind of through lines of any time you read about criminals in the 70s, like, the FBI really wasn't very good at its job. I mean, you could debate whether or not they still are, but everyone was kind of asleep at the wheel until September 11th.

Which, you know, is part of why September 11th happened. Right. It's almost as if in the human narrative there's incompetence has always been with us. Yes. Especially of those of power. Yeah. Shouldn't have been super hard to find L. Ron Hubbard. Now, 500 local citizens attended the meeting where they were shown the renovations done to the Fort Harrison Hotel. Scientology representatives tried to reassure them that the church was a fundamentally friendly force with no nefarious aims towards their town. A spokesman for the church told them,

Scientologists are people who don't drink or violate laws. They are friendly and want to contribute. The very next day, the Church of Scientology filed a $1 million lawsuit against the mayor of Clearwater, Gabriel Cazares, suing him for libel, slander, and a bevy of civil rights violations.

A few days after announcing his presence in Florida and instantly suing the mayor of the town, L. Ron Hubbard went out to get a suit tailored near Dunedin. It turned out that the tailor was a science fiction fan, and since Ron was a proud narcissist, he immediately revealed his identity to the fan and told him he was staying nearby. The news percolated through the local rumor mill, and before long, it was common knowledge that the prophet of Scientology was hanging out in Dunedin rather than Clearwater.

Now at the time, there were numerous pending lawsuits and investigations against the church. The fact that Hubbard's location had been revealed by himself made him incredibly paranoid. Within days of revealing himself to Clearwater, he and his entourage fled 1,200 miles north to Georgetown. Hubbard grew a beard and bought a new wardrobe from a local Salvation Army store. One of his aides, who'd been with him during his long boat journey, noted that it was strange because on the ship he had all these phobias about dust and smells and how his clothes had to be washed, but all that vanished when we were living together in Washington.

He goes boho. Kind of an Assange arc for him. He had like a second religion family. A secret. A secret, yeah. Oh, man. They're just pests, though, right? Anytime anyone might be a threat, they just throw everything at them. I'm going to sue you then. Oh, didn't you hear? They throw everything at everyone in any area they're in before they get to know anyone. Right.

It's how you react to threats when you have infinite money and are just a lunatic. And I think it's a sign of your own – like I feel like from your previous episodes too, he walked around with a lot of darkness inside him. Like there are some people who I think have done horrendous things and it really goes off them like water off a duck's back.

His just sheer obsession with, well, everyone's got dirt. Everyone's got skeletons. The trick in life is just to find the skeletons first. That's the act of someone who's like, yeah, I have the most skeletons. I have so many skeletons. This is preemptively throwing skeletons at you. I kidnapped my own baby. And if you say anything about these skeletons, I'm going to create new skeletons. It's also incredible that he –

I wish I could have been there in his head in the moment he's leaving the Taylor's office when it turned from like, it was nice meeting a fan. I shouldn't have done that. Oh, L that was real bad. All the crimes you've been committed. Wait a minute.

Lil Ron. Lil Ron. So he grows to Georgetown and grows a beard, like we all do at some point. Now, while Hubbard hid out in Georgetown, he continued to direct a variety of clandestine operations down in Clearwater. His main goal was to unseat Gabriel Cazares, who had grown into a figure of almost Luciferian importance to the Scientologists. And get that portrait. He still wants that portrait. He still wants that portrait. Yeah, they were really worried about his moderate concern about them taking over his town with a paramilitary security force.

According to the book, Barefaced Messiah, quote, Scientologists had gone back to his hometown of Alpine, Texas, trawled through public records, nosed around the courthouse, and even checked the headstones in the local graveyard without success. But then it was disclosed that Cazares would be attending the National Mayor's Conference in Washington from 11th or 13th to 17th March.

and the Guardian's office made hasty plans to give him a welcome. A Scientologist posing as a Washington reporter sought an interview with Cazares and introduced him to a friend, Sharon Thomas, who offered to show the mayor the sights of Washington. Ms. Thomas was, of course, working for the Guardian's office. Driving with the mayor through scenic Rock Creek Park, she temporarily lost control of her car and ran into a pedestrian who crumpled dramatically. To the mayor's horror, Ms. Thomas accelerated away without stopping, leaving the injured man lying on the road.

Is the injured man also a plant? Yeah, he's a scientist. Everyone involved is a Scientologist, but the mayor? This is like a play for no one. It's like in The Simpsons when they put on a play to convince Mr. Burns to fund the school or some shit. Yeah.

I wonder if they rehearsed. Oh, they must have. They must have. And it's all for him to feel more important. He had a team always practicing to fake a hit and run just because he knew at some point, I'm going to need this. I'm going to do this. I want to be in those morning production meetings. Yeah.

We're just sitting right, right, right, right. He was talking last night about not feeling like so great when he's like, he's not tall. So can we just like, let's build his platform, make him taller for everything. Who are our shortest people? Yeah. They were doing this shit. I want to see the scenes that they rehearsed that were cut.

Like, okay, in case the mayor gets carried off by a giant bird of prey, we have this great scene worked out. It never happened. It just like stayed on the cutting room floor. Yeah. With the Thetans. With the Thetans. That's why I get the acting connection now. Oh, that makes sense. They had to do a lot of improv. We'll be getting a little more into that too. And that pedestrian, Thomas Cruise. Yeah.

That was his first role. Now, the plan was to use this hit and run to discredit the mayor. A Guardian's office memo noted, I should think the mayor's political days are at an end. Of course, a faked hit and run committed by someone else did not have the derailing effect on the mayor's career that the Guardian's office had hoped. He was a passenger! Yeah. But Hubbard was ready the same day with another plan to try and convince Miami's Cuban population that the mayor of Clearwater was pro-Castro. Oh, God.

Like most of L. Ron Hubbard's harebrained schemes, this one did not bear fruit. The Commodore cooked up ideas like IHOP cooks pancakes, poorly and constantly. But all of his schemes were not half-assed. And while all this was going on, the Church of Scientology was deep in the middle of the most ambitious scheme of its history to date, Operation Snow White. Ooh.

On November 9th, 1975, an agent of the church codenamed Silver walked into the Internal Revenue Service headquarters in Washington, D.C. He entered the office of attorney Charles Zuvrayan, although he had no legal right to be there, and began taking documents. He made copies of hundreds of confidential tax documents and then walked out the door with them. Like the purchase of the Fort Harrison Hotel, this was done under the express orders of L. Ron Hubbard. The genesis of Snow White had come in 1973, whilst Hubbard and his Sea Org were still trawling international waters.

Multiple nations refused to let the Scientologists dock at their ports, and L. Ron Hubbard decided this was due to a worldwide conspiracy to discredit his church, rather than its numerous, numerous crimes. Everyone thinks I'm an asshole. It must be a conspiracy. I'm going to dress up like Spider-Man and ruin his good name. Hubbard tasked Scientology's investigative arm, the Guardian Office, with countering this false information. The name Snow White was picked because Hubbard claimed the government's case against him was, in essence, a fable.

Don't call it Operation Fable. That's way cooler. Well, he went with Snow White. All right.

Under the direction of his wife, Mary Hubbard, Operation Snow White would grow into a sprawling infiltration of the U.S. federal government at every level. Agent Silver's theft of IRS documents was just one part of the scheme. Agent Silver was really IRS clerk Gerald Wolfe, and in that capacity, he was able to steal more than 30,000 pages worth of documents. By the beginning of 1975, the church had actually succeeded in placing agents inside the IRS, the U.S. Coast Guard, and the DEA.

Now, this scheme was executed entirely by agents of the Guardian office. They were trained to lie, or in Scientology terms, outflow false data in order to worm their way into these federal organizations.

That's a good synonym for lie. Flow. I'm wrapping my head around that euphemism. Outflow false data. Synergize the dishonesty. Also, your name's already Wolf. Agent Wolf was better than Agent Silver. I was going to say. The names are bugging me, Robert. Or Silver Wolf. Or I don't know. Silver Wolf. Agent Silver Wolf. Red Fox. No, wait. That was an addition. Agent Red Fox. Snow Wolf. Oh.

White Fox. He's got a filthy sense of humor, but he gets shit done. Speaking of fables, you know what's not a fable? What? Products? Oh, they're real. Your heart's still in this, man. You know what? I don't need the guff. See, I throw the bagels, they come right back to me. Hey, those are some products. The services are real, but we are not. The services are real, and the throwing bagels are real.

My current throwing bagels are everything bagels, kettle-boiled and health-baked sliced, the bagel that won the West. And they're bruising badly, which I didn't think bagels were supposed to do. The bagel that won the West. I didn't know that. Yeah. Did these...

Wipe out the Cherokee? Yeah. Are these genocide bagels that I'm throwing on the wall? I mean, they're everything, so they're definitely genocide, plus, I guess, everything else. That's not cool. Thousands of American bison died with those bagels embedded in their skulls. Sophie, I want bagels that didn't commit genocide. Yeah, fair. Also, these expired February 25th.

I want fresh throwing bagels. Actually, the expired ones work a little bit better. So, check out these ads.

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I shouldn't have come back when I was eating. Yeah, right when you popped it in your mouth. Well, you fully control when you come back, so that was your choice, and you should have lived with it. That's number three for those keeping track. I hit some equipment with that one, but Daniel says it's fine. We've returned from examining the ads, the antiquated woodworking tool, and I, for one, will purchase one. Yeah, delicious products or services. Now...

What's not delicious is the throwing bagels that apparently are genocide bagels. Yeah, I think they're genocide bagels. I would like to apologize to genocide victims for throwing genocide bagels. I've heard a lot of words in my time on this earth. I've never heard the combination tasty genocide. I don't know. I don't eat bagels. I just throw them, so I don't know if they're tasty. I can say these are the bounciest of the bagels. Oh, you're not even vouching for these bagels as edible?

That's why they're throwing bagels, Michael. Okay, all right. I assume a throwing bagel could sort of retire and end its life in my little mouth. Is that not a possibility? I'm not going to say you can't, but that's not their purpose. Okay. They're everything bagels, so you can do anything with them. This bagel is my everything now. Including genocide. Yes, unfortunately. I guess, yeah, they really are everything bagels. Well, if a bagel's everything, it's all good and all evil. It's all good and all evil. It's all on there. Yeah. That bagel...

both invented the seatbelt.

And killed JonBenet Ramsey. Everything. And is the spirit of Christmas. And is the spirit of Christmas as well as the spirit of St. Louis. And is that right-wing college kid who led the campaign against wearing seatbelts and died in an accident that he would have lived through if he had worn his seatbelt. It's all in the bagel, people. We've gotten too invested in the philosophy of what an everything bagel is. The cream cheese is Hitler. I don't ask why. It's always been that way. I think we can all agree on that. Yeah.

All right, let's get back to Ron Hubbard's life. It's a little bit of bagel. It's a little bit of bagel. So, the Guardian office agents were infiltrating, you know, all these federal agencies, the IRS, the DEA, the Coast Guard. Much of the data gathered, like the IRS files copied by Agent Silver, was collected in order to help the church deal with its mountain of pending audits. At this point, it was not a religious institution in the legal sense of the word, but it was still refusing to pay taxes, so the IRS was...

Not super happy. So it still had not secured the religious exemption? No, that wasn't until much later. Now, the Guardian's office also used their connections to the U.S. government to dig up dirt on their political enemies, particularly journalists who dared to write about them. According to the L.A. Times, quote,

The Guardian office saved the worst for author Paulette Cooper of New York City, whose scathing 1972 book, The Scandal of Scientology, pushed her to the top of the church's roster of enemies. Among other things, Cooper was framed on criminal charges by the Guardian office members, who obtained stationery she had touched and then used it to forge bomb threats to the church in her name.

You're like the Nazis or the Arabs. I'll bomb you. I'll kill you, warned one of the rambling letters. The church reported these threats to the FBI and sent the fury of the Bureau crashing down on poor Paulette Cooper. She was indicted by a grand jury for making bomb threats and for lying under oath about having made the bomb threats. The truth did eventually come out, but it took two years and cost Paulette $20,000 in legal fees and $6,000 in psychiatric treatment.

Now, Hubbard actually hated Paulette enough that he had the Guardian's office dedicated an entire operation to destroying her, codenamed Freak Out. I found an article where she recites a small list of the things they did before reporting those fake bomb threats to the FBI. What are you doing at work today, honey? We're destroying this one woman's life. We're destroying this lady. She wrote a book. Yeah, we're in Q2. I'm hoping by Q4 she'll be contemplating suicide, you know.

That's the goal. We all get a bonus if it happens before Q4. Also, did the agents who infiltrated the IRS like 99% of the time have to just keep up their cover by doing tax returns? I think so. I want to know if a Scientologist operative ever just processed my taxes by chance. Well, if you were filing taxes in the late 70s, yeah, maybe. Yeah. I have a very bad tax cheat, which is I've been filing taxes since before I was born. I'm hoping it'll pay off.

I'm going to stop paying taxes early. You ought to just stay in the plus column. Here's Paulette Cooper. Quote,

Next, my cousin, who was also short and slim like me, was in my apartment alone when a man arrived with a flower delivery for me. When she opened the door, the intruder pulled a gun out of the flowers and put it to her temple. Fortunately, the gun jammed, misfired, or was empty. The man then began to choke her, and then when she pulled away and screamed, he ran off.

The police said afterward that they were mystified because there appeared to be no motive for the attack. I quickly moved to a safer doorman building, but soon afterwards, 300 of my new neighbors received an anonymous smear letter about me, outrageously describing me as a part-time prostitute with venereal disease. They really showed control with the part-time, though. They're like, don't drag her through the park. Not a full-time. Wow. Yeah, that's a...

That's a hit. You know the reason why they chose part-time, too, is that they're like, she can't even be a full prostitute. That's a different way to take it. But you know it's the one they took. She hasn't made varsity sex work yet. Yeah, she can't entirely subsist off of that. So she's got to do the writing books about Scientology thing as an off-game. There's just worse lies and worse lies. Yeah.

Now, much as I do love talking about the wacky schemes of L. Ron Hubbard, it's important to remember that for every botched fake hit and run, which is just genuinely whimsical and funny, someone like Paulette Cooper was subjected to insane, almost unimaginable torment for the crime of writing a book that angered L. Ron Hubbard. A tempted murder. Yeah. Poor woman. Well, it seems like it might have been actually just a torture technique, like where they were never planning to shoot her. But like that's a thing that you'll do. Like I talked to someone who was in an Iranian prison and tortured for a while.

And fake executions were a common thing. The CIA did it too with people who were captured in Iraq where you put a gun to their head and pull the trigger, but it's not loaded because that just really fucks with people. I guess because he went on to choke her, it makes you imagine he really was sent to kill her. But a jam is also pretty unlikely. Yeah. Like as a torture rehearsal? Just to fuck her up.

Yeah, like, yeah, they'll execute a prisoner of war with a gun that has no bullets. Right, just to be psychologically. Now you're fucked up inside. Enjoy your next 40 years. Now, meanwhile, back in Operation Snow White, over the months and years, Scientology spies had made their way into the Department of Justice, placing an operative as the secretary to an assistant U.S. attorney who handled the Mount Nafoya requests filed by the church, Freedom of Information Act requests.

This was the surface legitimate goal of Operation Snow White. Hubbard framed it as a perfectly legal blizzard of freedom of information requests aimed at trying to figure out just why so many people thought the Church of Scientology was a nefarious entity. Now, because... Yeah, I'm usually pro-FOIA. FOIA has been a force for good, mostly. Yep, not in this case. So, because many of these FOIA requests pertain to records that were critical in ongoing investigations into the Church's rampant criminal activity, the Church would be denied the right to see them, which is, you know, part of how FOIA works.

The church's man in the Justice Department would be able to know when they were like, okay, with the request of this document, it's being denied. And so he would get a copy of the document they were getting denied and then smuggle them out to church authorities. So this is why they replaced him as the DOJ. So they knew what everyone was on. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Now, the IRS was L. Ron Hubbard's greatest nemesis outside of the concept of psychiatry, and they were where his guardian office focused most of its efforts. At one point, an office operative managed to bug an IRS conference room by wiring a recorder into a wall socket that allowed him to listen in on agency meetings via his car's FM radio. At another point, two Scientologists used their faked IRS credentials to get inside government archives and photocopy documents related to the church.

Now, the head of Operation Snow White was again Mary Sue Hubbard. And when it all came crashing down, spoiler, she is the one who would take legal blame.

But basically everyone who has studied the church, or Hubbard, agrees that he was the center of the whole conspiracy. Yeah, it's almost like people who are scared that everything is a conspiracy make conspiracies. Yeah, do nothing but create conspiracies. Yeah, because of the worldview. And it seems like everything is the mafia. Like everything works like the mafia. They're out to get you. Right, it's the same. You just shift the blame to a lower down person and keep the...

Concept of lieutenants are made men kind of stuff. Avon's in the clink for a year, but we got Stringer on the outside, and he can run messages to Wee Bay, whatever you need. Yeah, and in L. Ron Hubbard's case, he's Avon Barksdale. I guess. Except for he never spends time in a cell. Yeah, because he's a mythical... He's more of a mythic figure.

Yeah. I do think this is also the first time I've heard of spy work that is too boring to contemplate doing. Oh, my God. So it's like, do you want to be a spy? Yeah, dude. Okay. Go into this IRS office and install a bug. That's kind of cool. Now sit in a van and listen to what IRS people say all day every day. Yeah, drive around listening to the IRS radio. Are we cops? Kind of the opposite of cops. Yep. New cops. Yeah.

Spock? Yeah. Is cops backwards? I don't know. Is Spock cops? That's not how that works. It's the cops. Spock? It is. It is. Cops backward are Spock. Because they're theological. I've always said that Commander Spock is the opposite of a cop. Yeah. You know why?

The Blue Uniform. No, that doesn't work. Living long in... Eight years. Living long in Prosper. I'm looking for the pun. I really didn't have anything there. Okay, you're just hoping someone... I was hoping somebody was gonna pass that ball back. The point of somebody comedy now. Yeah. And we failed. That is highly illogical. You did fail. Hand over your badge and gun. Uh-oh. Throw these bagels! No!

Right back at my feet. Number four. I hate the genocide they were complicit in, but they're damn good throwing bagels. Really good throwing bagels. Freudian slip. Shoving bagels. Those are different bagels. You need a littler bagel. Most orifices are small. Bagel bites. Yeah, good for shoving. I put bagel bites...

Throw-in bagels can be big. Shove-in bagels need to be small enough to fit most holes. To just kind of ease in there. Call me old-fashioned, but I like just a good old-fashioned walk-in bagel. A little walk around town. You can grab on it. It's not got too much on the outside. That's a good walk-in bagel. Back to evil. I was ready to talk about shove-in bagels more. Because, you know, if it's bagel bites, they make their own lube.

Do they now? Back to Scientology. Bagel Bites. Michael Meisner. Yeah, real good. Michael Meisner, who was the fake victim of the fake hit and run aimed at destroying the mayor of Clearwater, was also a major part of Operation Snow White. He personally broke into the Department of Justice several times and organized the copying of tens of thousands of secret files. Under Meisner's direction, decoding equipment was installed to provide direct, secure communication between church headquarters in Clearwater and the Guardian's office in Los Angeles.

After Virginia, O'Ron Hubbard himself wound up hiding next on Overland Avenue in Culver City, California. I lived there. Yeah, that was about a block away from my first home in Los Angeles. Yeah, me too. Yeah, that's where Hubbard hid after he decided he'd spent too much time in Georgetown and he had to get out of the East Coast. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So in mid-1976, with Operation Snow White at its height and Hubbard living in his third undisclosed location since returning to dry land a year ago, Mary Sue Hubbard finally joined back up with her husband to warn him about some major problems not related to the fact they were conducting the largest infiltration of the federal government in U.S. history.

See, it turns out that living on a series of boats and searching for gold for like a decade, committing a vast and dizzying crate of financial crimes, spying on the government, living in a series of safe houses is kind of bad for someone's family life. He blew up those imaginary submarines. Yeah, he did. He did blow up those imaginary submarines. Yeah, yeah. Claiming it.

And didn't the racist guy do it too? Yes, yes. George Lincoln Rockwell. They made the same lie. So it's almost like there's a continuity of liars and wanting to be awesome and making your own myth. You know that song, Everybody Wants to Rule the World? It's like that, but with blowing up a Japanese submarine. Yeah, it's like cred in those circles. Yeah.

So yeah, things were not great with the Hubbard family at this point in time. His daughter Diana's marriage was falling apart. His son Quentin was ostensibly in the Sea Org, but was constantly out of pocket and battling crippling depression. And worst of all, L. Ron Hubbard's daughter Suzette was dating non-Scientologists. Now, Mary Sue suggested that all of these problems could be solved by providing the family with a little bit more stability. So, using some of the church's literally infinite funds, they bought a gigantic compound in Southern California named La Quinta.

The family moved in that October. For a while, all was well. The Commodore's messengers noted that he seemed to be much more relaxed and happier after moving into his new ranch. This did not last long. On Wednesday, November 17th, 1976, Hubbard received dire news. His son Quentin had been found dead in his car in Las Vegas, the victim of a successful suicide. Mary Sue wept. L. Ron Hubbard screamed. That stupid fucking kid! That stupid fucking kid! Look at what he's done to me!

What happened to blaming the Thetans, dude? Like he should fall to his knees and go, Thetans! Thetans! You stole my boy! You stole my boy, Thetans! Man.

Man, that's tragic. Yeah. According to Barefaced Messiah, quote,

Things like that. I worked on anything that Org considered to be a threat to the Hubbards. Who's he saying this to? This is what he said to the author of Barefaced Messiah. Okay, so he presumably got deprogrammed at some point. Yeah, he left the church at some point. Okay. He was just a classic casino pit boss slash spy for the Church of Scientology. There's your mob connection right there. So what info is he getting, though? Like stuff like this. They want dirt on a psychiatrist, so he gets this guy drunk and bugs him talking about committing lobotomies. Yeah, I guess...

Yeah, I guess lobotomies are pretty cool. We should do more. And he's like, got you. Got you, motherfucker. Cha-ching. Another good-ass day for Ed Walters. Yeah.

So anyway, this is Walters again. Quote,

Quentin was cremated the next day. Those who knew him suggest that he probably just wanted out of Scientology, but couldn't think of a way to do so without ending his own life. According to Ed Walters, you don't just leave something like Scientology. You quit and then instantly become an enemy. He knew his father violently attacked anyone who betrayed him, and he knew that the Guardian's office would be after him as a traitor. He had grown up in Scientology and would have been tremendously afraid of the world out there, full of wogs and evil people. I guess he just couldn't handle it.

Now, L. Ron Hubbard probably would have yelled the same thing if he had left Scientology instead of killing him. What has he done to me? Yeah, what has he done to me? Right. It's one of those things. It's crazy because, like, of course they have some people in Vegas. Like, it's like they have this pit boss in Vegas and they have, like, a lady working at a hospital. But, like, I feel like at this point you get the feeling that at this point in the church's history they have people like that in pretty much every city.

Every major city in the United States. Yeah, they've got Scientologists scattered around who they can trust to like, yeah, we need you to pull some medical records for us. We need you to bug this conversation. We need you to get this guy wasted or whatever. That's almost the more baffling part because I can wrap my head around the concept of crazy people doing crazy stuff because they want to be awesome. Yeah. But...

the fact that they convince in mass all these people of different walks of life that are applicable in the way of like, oh, I can get information from them. Like that's just, what is that demographic consistency? You got to keep in mind, one of the things he's saying at this point in time, this is, you know, the Cold War is pretty ornery in like the late 70s. This is not that long before Red Dawn comes out. Right, so fear is high. Fear is high. L. Ron Hubbard, one of the ways he's billing Scientology is like,

this is the tech, which is like his term for their religious stuff. This is what's going to save the world. This is what's going to make a nuclear war possible. So all of you are like the guardians of this sacred knowledge that I've brought from space. All of you are integral in saving the world. So these people view themselves as secret agents of

you know, in the cause of the salvation of humanity. Which, if you're just like a pit boss or a lady working in a mid-level position at a hospital and you want some excitement in your life... It's desirable. It's cool, right? Like, you get to be a secret spy, bug these evil psychiatrists or whatever. Also ironic that the only...

place he didn't befoul with horrendous crimes is space. I think that's the only place he's innocent. He totally got the underground. Oh, he did try to. He wrote letters to NASA saying that, like, you're not going to get into space without our help. That's why I mentioned it, is I bet you're

bottom, but that this is a guy who genuinely wanted to go to space. You can, I mean, I used to read his sci-fi books cause I read all sci-fi books and you, it was genuine. He loves space. He loves him. And we're all grateful that he didn't make it there. No, it didn't need L Ron Hubbard. God, you know what else doesn't need L Ron Hubbard? Well,

The wonderful products and services that support the show with their advertising dollars. Why would they? They're fully actualized. They're fully actualized. I've heard about these. These services? Yes. And the products? Uh-huh. All right. Well, let's all hear about them some more.

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Now, I want to be clear here. When I quoted Mr. Walters earlier, he said that L. Ron Hubbard's son was scared of a world filled with wogs and evil people. Now, my Australian listeners will note that the word wog is a racial slur in that country, but it also has a totally separate meaning in Scientology. So Walters was not being racist against anyone there. L. Ron Hubbard used the term wogs to refer to normal people who were not members of his sweet-ass space cult. He defined a wog as, quote, Like muggles. It means muggles. It's muggles. And it sounds like muggle.

Yeah, it is. And it's, yeah, Hubbard said a wog is, quote, a common everyday garden variety humanoid. He is a body. He doesn't know he's here, et cetera. He isn't there as a spirit at all. He is not operating as a thetan. He's such a special boy. He's not a special boy. Operating as a thetan.

I still don't even because I thought you were trying to get rid of the thetans well but you are a thetan too right I think so like you're not operating you don't realize you're a space ghost and try to inside a meat sock yeah there's good thetans and there's cheating thetans so and you're saying they have locations all across the US at this time oh yeah they're fucking everywhere man it sounds like they're space ghosts coast to coast alright well the episode's over that joke's all we needed see you guys next week

I'm sorry. We pre-wrote that. We're all Scientologists. We talk about jokes all the time. We're really selling everyone on the cult. Someone's joking me. Hey, that wasn't an actor, though. That's true. That one was real. Might have been Tom Cruise. Probably not. Definitely not. Shouldn't be slandering a rich millionaire. He also runs too fast to ever believably be hit by a car as a pedestrian, I think. Yes.

Just wouldn't buy it. I also think if he came after you wanting to kill you, he'd probably do the job. Oh, yeah. I feel like Tom Cruise could have very easily been a special forces guy or a murderer for hire. I mean, this is the kind of guy with his fuck-off money. He just has a compound where he learns martial arts and stuff. Yeah, where he learns how to destroy things. So you were worried about the legal ramifications of slandering him by saying he might have been that guy. Yeah.

but you immediately also want to say he's probably good at murdering. I mean, I think, I think he would be the first to admit that. Sure. Sure. Sure. He would be hypothetically a great murderer. I,

When you talk to guys who train Hollywood actors for gun stuff, the two people they note as being like, these guys don't really need any help is Tom Cruise and Keanu Reeves. I know Dick Keanu. Yeah, because all the movies he's been in, he's had to shoot guns. And if you see him behind the scenes, he just tries hard. Yeah, he works really hard. Keanu Reeves cares about trying hard. Yeah, he's a great guy.

Now, you remember those two Scientology agents who orchestrated the Department of Justice break-in back in 76? Well, after 11 months on the lam in early 1977, one of them broke and became an informant to the FBI. The Bureau had been on his case for the break-in, but the full story of the church's infiltration of the U.S. government was complete news to them. They opened a massive investigation into Scientology's sweeping infiltration of the United States government.

The investigation would culminate in a June 1977 raid that is still one of the largest raids in the history of the FBI. 134 agents with crowbars and sledgehammers tore through Scientology HQ in D.C., as well as their offices in Los Angeles. They carted away tens of thousands of documents, including the plans for Project Normandy, revealing the church's secret goal to establish area control in the city of Clearwater.

The resulting court case led to 11 Scientologists, including L. Ron Hubbard's wife, Mary Sue, being convicted and sentenced to up to five years in federal prison. L. Ron Hubbard was named by the grand jury as an unindicted co-conspirator, a term we all know very well now, but the seized file did not link him directly to any crimes. He maintained his innocence up until the very end. According to the Justice Department, quote,

The crime committed by these defendants is of a breadth and scope previously unheard of. No business, office, desk, or file was safe from their snooping and prying. No individual or organization was free from their despicable conspiratorial minds. The tools of their trade were miniature transmitters, lockpicks, secret codes, forged credentials, and any other device they found necessary to carry out their conspiratorial schemes.

By the way, it's worth noting that while this is happening at the height of the Cold War, the Soviet government never managed to infiltrate the United States in nearly as comprehensive or extensive a fashion as the Church of Scientology did.

It seems like they should have been trying to infiltrate the Church of Scientology. It's like talk to the people who really are making progress. Yeah, they fucking nailed it. Now, those are the facts of the case as they exist in reality, but they are not the facts of the cases admitted by the Church of Scientology. In the immediate aftermath of the raid, they accused the FBI of Gestapo-like brutality, which would be true if the Gestapo handed out five-year sentences for massive and sweeping infiltrations of the Third Reich rather than just shooting people. They had clout.

They had crowbars, Robert. It's frightening. The STAND League builds itself as an advocacy group of Scientologists fighting bigotry against their religion. The name is an acronym for Scientologists Taking Action Against Discrimination. You have to use the in and against for the acronym, which isn't really a great acronym procedure, but we all cut corners now and again. I use expired throwing bagels like nobody's perfect. I found an article published on the STAND League's website about the Snow White program. Here's how they describe it.

The Snow White program refers to the program written by Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard in 1973 for the purpose of legally correcting and expunging the plethora of false government reports about the Church of Scientology, its leaders, and members through strictly legal means.

It's a big tip off for legal. Legal twice. P.S. Legal. P.S. Legal. P.S. Legal. Just think about the word legal and think of me. Yeah. The Stan League asserts that L. Ron Hubbard did not remotely contemplate anything illegal. Of course not. Famous law follower L. Ron Hubbard. Who's got two thumbs and is legal? This guy. This guy. Yeah. I gotta get back

on my boat now i'm gonna kidnap my baby again no collusion oh my wife though damn it sucks how she sucks yeah yeah that's rough now it is impossible to disprove that to a point of certainty which is why elrond hubbard himself was never convicted of anything but i want to emphasize this come the fuck on we all know all of this is known information it's true

Now, we're not done with the story of L. Ron Hubbard yet. And in our next episode, which I'm very excited for, we're going to talk about the last phase of his life where he became an auteur filmmaker and a singer. Hell yes. Hell yes. Hell yes. Can you believe LRH has this much gas left in the tank? And does it even involve Battlefield Earth? Oh, yeah. Oh, buddy. Does it involve Battlefield Earth? Fuck.

Yeah. What a juicy treat at the end. So many people come on the show and at some point in the hour go, yeah, this has been really depressing. Thanks for having me. I feel like you got all the sad stuff out of the way. I mean, there's been sad shit, but man, the next one's going to be a treat. It is going to be a treat. I can't wait. But before we close this episode out, I'd like to talk a little bit more about the town of Clearwater, Florida.

Now, the Fort Harrison Hotel was renamed by the Church of Scientology to Flag Land Base after renovations were finished. It became, and is today, the chief training center for Scientologists studying the highest levels of whatever the hell Scientology is. Since 1980, three Scientologists have died at Flag Base. One of those dead was a young woman named Lisa McPherson, who died of a blood clot caused by dehydration and bed rest after 17 days locked in room 174 of the former hotel. Jesus.

Josephus Havaneth was found dead in a bathtub in his room. The water was hot enough to have burned his skin off. The official cause of death was drowning, but the coroner noted that he was found with his head above the waterline. Herbert Pfaff died of a seizure in the hotel after he ceased taking his seizure medication in favor of a Scientology-approved vitamin program. And this is the hotel from The Shining you're describing, right? This is the Overlook Hotel? That's essentially what they turned this building into. Don't go in room 174. Don't.

In 1997 alone, the Clearwater Police received 160 emergency calls from Flag Base. At no point were they allowed to enter.

For most of Scientology history, the church was in constant arrears for failure to pay state and local property taxes. Scientology was brought to court numerous times by the city and the IRS for this. Luckily for the church, they eventually succeeded in having Scientology declare a religion, which granted them tax-exempt status. The way they did this was pretty fascinating. They basically bombarded the IRS as an organization and individual IRS executives with lawsuits until they got their way. We'll probably talk about that in detail in a later episode.

According to a recent report in the Tampa Bay Times, the Church of Scientology currently owns more than $260 million in property in downtown Clearwater. Most of these buildings are empty and undeveloped, and many in Clearwater blame the church for the fact that downtown Clearwater has remained incredibly underdeveloped compared to downtown St. Petersburg and Tampa. The church is able to exercise a huge amount of control over the city of Clearwater due to their ownership of much of its downtown area and the economic power of their religion. According to FSU News, quote,

Scientology leader David Miscavige introduced a retail strategy to Clearwater's Community Redevelopment Agency. The plan requires use of not just property owned by the church, but also every property in a three-block by four-block area that encompasses all of downtown. The plan involves attracting a few major retail brands and then filling open spaces with hand-picked businesses, similar to an outdoor mall. The proposal will give the church total control over the downtown area in regards to development and management of properties. The church's redevelopment plan has not yet been made public, nor will it be subject to a vote.

Cool. Why do you need that? Like, why? I don't understand what the area... He's like, this church is important to me. I made trillions of dollars, but I need area control. What's area control? Well, I want to decide if there's a Sparrows or, you know, an old spaghetti factory there. I want it to be what I want it to be. Who gives a shit, dude? This is the decision of his predecessor. Because...

For L. Ron Hubbard taking over this town, which the church controls like 40 years later today, this was like a two-week project for him. Right. Like, he was there for like a month or so. L. Ron Hubbard himself never spent more than a couple of days actually inside the city limits of Clearwater. Like, they still control this, and it was just sort of a vague plan of his for a couple of weeks before he moved up to Georgetown and grew weird. I like it. Take it for me. With these mythic figures, yeah. Like, uh...

The entire Sea Org is just like, whatever he said, what beautiful drippings came out of this horrible maw. We need to make that our religion because there's only so much...

That he said. I mean, he said a lot, but... It's like there's still people in Clearwater who have to deal with the consequences of L. Ron Hubbard's passing fancy. Right. Every day. Well, I guess we have to justify this shit. I also kind of want to go there now, because I didn't know there existed, like, a company town for Scientology. Yeah. There sure does. Where I got to imagine, because they're freaking annoying to be around...

They must have pushed out anyone who had an easy opportunity to leave or felt like... So by now, 40 years later, I just want to go to a town where you're like 90% certain everyone around you is a Scientologist at all times. Or another person gawking at all the Scientologists. I wonder if there was ever at the time like he would listen to music or like was really into stand-up comedian and would like watch it and stuff. And then everyone was like, I guess that's...

God amongst us. You get the feeling from L. Ron Hubbard that he did not consume a lot of other people's media. Right. That's probably true. Yeah. We will be talking about Star Wars a little bit in the next episode. I can't wait. This is going to be... It is going to be great. But first, you know what else is going to be great? What? Is y'all plugging your plugables. Oh,

yeah. Yeah, we're in the P-Zone. The P-Zone. Welcome to the P-Zone. I thought that's the pizza zone. What's the cookie with ice? That's a pizookie. The BJ's. The P-Zone. And we'll blast you with a pizooka full of pizookies. All right, guys. We have things we do. Throwing bagels around the table. Oh, no. Oh, shit. Oh, man. Oh, God. You're under the bagels now. Uh, uh,

my associate Abe here and I have a little outfit called small beans. It's a podcasting network and is about to branch into web video. Yeah. And, uh, I think it's very important that you find out more about that at patrion.com slash small beans or on the small beans YouTube channel. Cause we are right now in the process of producing, uh,

a little show where four friends sit around analyzing pop culture accompanied by illustrations and clip packages. Yeah. And there's a good chance that a lot of your audience likes that show because it feels familiar to them and exciting. This sounds familiar to another show that I know you were on in the past. It's unlike any other show. Well, this is the launch of a Legally Distinct show from all other shows. I love Legally Distinct. Called Af...

Off Hours. Off Hours. Off Hours. Off Hours. What you do in your Off Hours? You analyze pop culture. You analyze pop culture. Hey, this is Robert Evans cutting in from the future. When we recorded this episode, Off Hours was not yet done. It was just a dream in Michael and Abe's beautiful, beautiful eyes. But now it is, in fact, a reality. And you can watch it right now on the internet if you go to YouTube.com.

and look up off hours, if your life got rebooted, what kind would it be on the Small Beans channel?

Please check it out, Off Hours. If your life got rebooted, what kind would it be? It's a fun show. It's important to me because all of my friends are involved and because internet comedy, if you don't know, is having some hard times these days. And Michael and Abe and a good group of many of my former coworkers, who are all great people, are trying to keep it alive, keep it user-supported, inclusive.

You know, avoid having to do ads, avoid a lot of that mess, and try to make beautiful content that makes people laugh and makes the world more bearable. So please, go to the Small Beans channel on YouTube, check out the first episode of Off Hours, share it with your friends, donate to Small Beans, and keep the world laughing.

That's all I do at the moment. Or you research horror. The reason we chose that name is because the acronym is O, like, oh, I might want to watch this. And then F. Fun. Fun. F.

Friends. Fun with friends. Oh, fun with friends. Oh, fun with friends. And it's, you know, after your work hours. Yeah. It's like after hours would have worked too. Yeah. You can watch it after hours if you want. It's the kind of thing I would watch when I put down my throwing bagels for the day and I pick up my relaxing bagels. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Just unwind with a soothing dulcet tone. I am pitching a Frasier episode that I think will convince you to throw a bagel or two at the screen. Okay. Yeah. He might be bad.

Yeah, Frasier might be bad, guys. So many surprises like that and more at patreon.com slash small beans. Small beans. All right. I'm Robert Evans. You can buy a shirt. Tee Public, behind the bastards. You can buy a shirt. You can buy shirts now. You can also just buy shirts in other places if you want a shirt. It's legally required in many outdoor areas in the United States because of the fucking president. Yeah.

Or you can listen to my other podcast. It could happen here. If you want to be sad, it will make your day worse with knowledge. Listen to it. And I have a Twitter and an Instagram, at BastardsPod. Well, Sophie runs both of those. I don't understand Instagram. It frightens and confuses me.

But you can look at those things. They exist. They're in the world. We have a website, BehindTheBastards.com, where you can find all the sources for this, including Barefaced Messiah, which you can find free online. I think it's...

out of copyright. I don't know. I did buy a copy of it, but you can also find it for free online without torrenting it. Just wanted to increase the chance the church got a little of your money. Well, no, they didn't publish that book. They do not like that book. They hate the book. It's a hell of a read, though. Speaking of cutting room floors, as we were earlier, the number of LRH stories that I didn't include in this podcast just because I couldn't make a 14-hour podcast about L. Ron Hubbard? Fucking wild. Anyway, I'm

I'm going to throw some bagels. Y'all continue your commute or your poop. Number five. The episode's over. Behind the Bastards is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com. Or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I think...

A lot of people think that you're supposed to be going to therapy once you're like having panic attacks every day. But before you get to that point, I think once you start even noticing that you feel a little bit off and you can't maintain this harmony that you once had in relationships, that could be a sign that maybe you want to go talk to somebody.

There's always a benefit in talking to someone because we can all benefit from improved insight about ourselves and who we are and how we behave with other people. So if you're human, that's like a good indicator that you could benefit from talking to somebody. Find out if therapy is right for you. Visit BetterHelp.com today.

That's betterhelp.com. Did you know Tide has been upgraded to provide an even better clean in cold water? Tide is specifically designed to fight any stain you throw at it, even in cold. Butter? Yep. Chocolate ice cream? Sure thing. Barbecue sauce? Tide's got you covered. You don't need to use warm water. Additionally, Tide Pods let you confidently fight tough stains with new coldzyme technology. Just remember...

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And hide a secret from everyone around her.

The next great CBS mystery, Matlock, continues with a new episode Thursday, 9, 8 central on CBS and streaming on Paramount+.