Silicon Valley Fashion With The Menswear Guy
39:03 Share

People are driven by the search for Better, but when IT comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search at all, don't search, match with, indeed, but hiring process can be slow and overwhelmed. Simplify hiring with with indeed, indeed this your matching and hiring platform with over three hundred and fifty million global monthly visitors according to indeed da and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates fast dits the busy work use indeed for schedule and screening and messaging so you can connect with candidate's faster join more than three point five million businesses worldwide that use indeed to hire great talent fast listeners of the show will get a seventy five dollar sponsor job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed dot com flash P O D K A T Z twelve that's indeed dot com slash P O D K A T Z twelve terms and conditions, supply.

Welcome to decisions, decisions. The podcast where boundaries are push and conversations gig handed. Join your favorite house, me, V Z W T and me as we dive deep into the world of non traditional relationships and exploit the often aboo topics surrounding dating sex.

every monday and wednesday will invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriotic norms, turn in enjoying .

the conversation, listen to decisions, decisions on the black effect podcast network. I have radio APP apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast .

looking for the perfect Christmas playlist will check out ninety three point nine light FM chicago s Christmas music station playing your favorite ite holiday artists, including bin crosbie, morici, Frank sinatra, michabo bay and Moore, turn on the holiday light to get in a festive mood, whether at work, in traffic or at home putting up the decorations. We can't wait to celebrate the season with you. Listen to ninety three point nine light F M in chicago or anywhere in the world on the I heart radio at.

Causer media, hello one, welcome to Better off line heart radio premium take podcasts that very serious one two.

And after earnings failed to reassure investors about their concerns around generate a is return on investment in video stocks has suffered recall two hundred and seventy nine billion dollar s in one days trading. It's truly, truly crazy. And today we're talking about the most important story and video, which is, of course, chief executive jenson wong and his wonderful sweater.

He, this man knows how to dress, which can be rare in the tech industry. But i've brought in mensa expert direct guide to discuss IT. Derek, thank you so much for joining me.

Thanks so much for having me.

So jenson looks good, but how would you describe his general aesthetic?

You know it's funny for a guy who is essentially ushering in um what could be to transformative change in the economy, possibly having effects in politics. Um you know many fear that this is going to Spark off a wave of unemployment and kind of um a shift of of growing inequality um in the united states. He kind of dresses like an eve character. I think he's very stylish, but he kind of dresses a bit like an evil character because he does these kind of all black outfits with these, uh, most of them look like to be cow hide or look like code de possibly go hide. Uh, leather jackets, sometimes exotic leather jackets, but always this kind of very sleep, all black luck um that you know you you generally kind of associate with um kind of ominous evidence yeah and IT I always .

thought I was kind of more of a bick look but what is he do you think even going for here is you think he's going for ever as he's just trying to be a certain kind of cool?

No, I think he he's probably aiming to be a certain kind of coal, a biker kind of um education ter and I think he pulls IT off all I think he's actually one of the few. I think there's a low bar for tech guys um but he actually, I think cleared the bar to be A A pretty stylish figure .

so tell me about these jackets. Have you looked into what kinds that I know you've talked about materials, but what is IT about these cuts exactly? And these I do you know the brands at all.

I don't know the brands. Um I do think I suspect that they are customer made for him. Um they fall very well on him. So everything about a jacket, whether it's a Taylor jacket or a Parker or leather jacket, everything hangs from the shoulders.

And if the shoulders are not cut right, then it's just the the jack it's not onna fit well and his jet is foot very well in that essentially he gets a very nice kind of um upside down v shape for the zippers which demonstrates that the the shoulders foot well and the cut is done intentionally to create that kind of um look at more angular look. Some of his jackets, I believe for memory have what's called uh um a long front baLance. So when you're looking at a jacket from the side, it's always fine for the front ham, the front of the ham to be lower or even with the back.

But you never want the, uh, front of the jacket to be higher than the back. Generally speaking, I I actually can't think of many exceptions to this rule. But his jackets are cut such that he gets very, very on some of the jackets, not all of them on some of the jackets. He gets very low front baLance um and IT looks very stylish that way. Um it's just a look at more of stylized look. It's clearly, I think he hired somebody to style him his his suit generally also fit very well um and my guess is that he just doesn't want to deal with different combination of outfit all the time um and this allows him to stick with a singular look and look pretty good um in public life.

Yeah it's kind of feels like an upgrade from ZARA berg's whole whole hoody situation. And I think a lot of people, by the way, none of this podcast is an ethical evaluation of these people. This is esthetic. But what about, for example, was doing IT very clearly because IT was easy. And I think people and people think people underplay how much of that goes into the fashion of these test entrepreneurs.

Yeah, I think it's interesting to couch this in the history of kind of the impact the tech industry has had on fashion. So or men's fashion specifically, I mean if you think of basically postwar era in the united states, the suit has been kind of declining since um the one thousand hundred and sixty and several this who became too tired with the establishment and after kind of student war protest freedom movements in the water gate scandal, people really did not want um to be associated with the establishment so after the second world war, slowly people started to shed the suit and start to take on different types of casual, often casual, that represented the working class.

But I think there was a major shift starting in the nineties after the tech boom in the rise of silicon valley kind of, uh, billionaire. Essentially the IT wasn't just that the suit was no longer desirable, is that another form of fashion became very desirable. That fashion was the kind of like woody genes uniform that mark zocor berg specifically usher in. And IT was desirable in the sense that is signalled, a certain kind of numerical racy to say that we don't cue to the kind of traditionalism of industry. Y's back east were in california shaking up the economy and the only thing that matters is your skills and know, S B F basically adopted this kind of thought.

He looked pretty, you know he he did not just very well um and I think part of that was this act to say I am so in the world of intellectual thought and coding and I only care about photographs y that I can spare a single thought to how I dress but in reality, this uniform, this hoodie jeans uniform, especially in the technology, became its own kind of norm such that IT wasn't just that people didn't care about fashion it's that dressing a certain way signal that you are part of the group, part of the crowd um and now we see that the regional people who usher in the ethos are actually taking, I don't want say, you know there's not mark sucker is not transforming his look but at least s the fall last year. He certainly has taken of slightly larger interest in his look and he's transformers look a little bit is looking little bit more style lish. Um and I think that that signals a natural ally, significant change in uh, how the tech industry thinks about fashion and then also how that is impacting the larger cultural space.

Yeah, I didn't really think about that.

but it's ockham. He he is kind of he's dressing .

like a man dressed up as the nineties rapper at times, but he seems to be paying more attention to the quality of clothes, at least like IT. Look, what he is wearing looks nice, so hangs on him Better versus feeling like and I admit before this goal, I didn't really think about how performative the i'm not really trying look is, but IT seems like he's trying now and I wonder if that is trying to secure a shift in the industry.

at least with him. You know i'm not really quite sure what is his deal. Um there have been multiple articles written about style for a while. I was rumored that all of his t shirts were, his great t shirts were from, and they bought them from mick's bashford and sympathy.

I can remember the Price of the t shirts, but he was rumor that he was spending something like thousand or two thousand dollars on hoodies and like seven hundred dollars on t shirts that was published again somewhere and I want to say was maybe the cut but afterwards, um mark, uh, I am sorry marky mark zaki g team reached out to the writer to clarify to say that he does not, in fact, by all of his hood from book's bashford and that he did by one once but then just never did again um but he listed the names of where he gets his clothing and and they were pretty kind of, I would say, in the no brands not superfetation onal but relatively in the nose so he he named tod snyder, bookmate and john elliot which is very in the know um I think some some other brands that escape escape me at the moment. But these these brands essentially are very rarely sold in just one store so I thought he was working with the stylist. His team denies that he works with the stylist, but the difference of his clothes is that they are a little bit more in conversation with what's trending at the moment.

So if you actually go to his instagram page, think is in scream handles suck um you'll see that starting in see like october or november of last year, his wardrobe dramatically changed so before he wore pretty kind of standard t shirt jeans um sometimes a switcher and the cut was pretty basic the shoulder same SAT on her shoulder bone um you know like slim strate genes, a very, very basic kind of luck. But then starting october in november, you start to see the cuts change. He wore a drop shoulder scene um when he wore long sleeves, the sleeves with stack a little bit around his rest um what else what was he wearing? He was obviously he adopted a cold chain which was recently written about, I think in the wall street journal and even slate um and I think IT just demonstrates a little bit more attention paid to the idea of a siller. 嗯 and yeah I think he looks Better .

for IT so for for all allisters and also may to find exactly what asylum is when you think of one as a person buying clothes。

So there are two aspects. When you're buying um close the fit and they're silly. A fit is I think of very you you should think of IT in very narrow terms. So to give an example, when you are, let's say, buying a butter up shirt, if you can't button up the shirt, IT doesn't fit. If you're buying suit jacket and the color list from your neck even when you're not moving, IT doesn't fit.

If you are um buying pants and you can't button the pants, they don't fit silla ET is slightly different silwood is the idea that if you take away all of the details in the outfit and you are just to think of the outfit in terms of shapes, think of IT as an outline um that is basically the siller of the government so in that same sometimes um you know when people see like pants are very crop, they say, oh, those don't fit. Not necessarily. Sometimes hands are designed to be very crop and that part of silver um sometimes sleeves are meant to stack around the on on the rest is just part of the luck. When you say.

say what do you mean? sorry.

So if you're wearing a very long sleep shirt, for example. If if you are, go to A A spoke Taylor to give an example, and you are just to get a basic shirt made, they would design the shirt in such a way that the cuff stay stationary on your rex, even when you move your arms. So that means that there the sleeping length is a little bit longer than your actual ARM. Otherwise when you move arms, the costs would write up on you. However, some designers um such as john elliot um try and think of the mother burin is another designer that does this uh probably rick o and as soon because he does this very long J P sluts, the sleeve is so long that essentially you get a love stacking but the material ends up stacking around your your risk and it's just part of the look IT doesn't have to be that close fit only in one singular way. So what allows you to think of an outfit terms of shapes and take a bit more creativity?

This is an antoni, a secret you hear because of our job. We need to be connected, tony, over connects by more than us.

But it's important .

like connection with your your family, every connections, or have enriched es your life. And that gives you something to provide. High speed internet, just in the context of this show is so important, we will be talking about something here.

And it's easy to forget when you have a big parts of the country still don't have high speed internet.

So A T N T knows this. They're ware of IT at A T T, and they're making a huge effort to change that. What they're doing is on track to cover thirty million plus locations currently who don't have IT to get IT with fiber by the end of twenty twenty five.

Millions of people obviously will benefit families, businesses, schools, hospitals. There is a place called autumn counting in kentucky, where they're now providing high speed internet to more than twenty thousand customers. A T N T join a lot of great things.

Connecting changes everything. A T N T.

even if you think it's a bit overhype, A I is suddenly everywhere, from sell driving cars to molecular medicine to business, if it's not in your industry yet. IT is coming fast, but AI needs a lot of speed and computing power. So how do you compete without cost spiralling out of control? Time to upgrade to the next generation of the cloud oracle cloud infrastructure, or O C I.

O C I is a blazing fast and secure platform for infrastructure, database and application development, plus all your A I and machine learning workloads. O C I costs fifty percent less for compute and eighty percent less for networking. So you're saving a pile of money.

Thousands of businesses have already upgraded to O, C, I, including M, G, M resorts, specialized bikes and firework ai. Right now, oracle is offering to cut your current cloud bill in half if you move to O, C, I for new U. S, customers with minimum financial commitment offence.

December thirty first, twenty twenty four. See if your company qualifies for this special offer at oracle dot com slash strategic. That's oracle dot com slash strategic.

People are driven by the search for Better. But when IT comes to hiring, the best way to search for cannot isn't to search at all, don't search, match with indeed, the hiring process can be slow and overwhelming.

Simplify hiring with indeed, indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over three hundred and fifty million global monthly visitors according to indeed data and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates fast dits the busy work, use indeed for scheduling, screening and messaging so you can connect with candidates faster, join more than three point five million businesses worldwide that use indeed to hire great talent. Fast listeners of the show will get a seventy five dollar sponsor job credit to get your jobs. More visibility at indeed dot com flash P O D K A T Z twelve that's indeed dot com slash P O D K A T Z twelve terms and conditions, supply.

Welcome to decisions decisions. The podcast for boundary are push and conversations get handed. Join your favorite host, me V Z W T F and meet md b as we dive deep into the world of non traditional relationships and exploit the tw topics surrounding dating.

Hello, that's right. Every monday and wednesday, we built invite to unlearn the outdated narratives, dict by traditional patriotic norms with a blend of humor, vulnerability and authenticity. We share our personal journeys, navigating authorities, tackling the complexities of modern relationships and engage the provoking discussions that chAllenge societal expectations from ground .

breaking interviews with diverse guests to relax able stories that are resonate with your experiences, decisions, decisions. Is gonna york goat to source for the open dialog about what is truly means to loving, connect in today's world?

Get ready to reshape your understanding of relationships and embrace the freedom of authentic connection. Tune.

enjoy the conversation, listen to decisions, decisions on the black effect podcast network, I heart radio APP apple podcast, or wherever you get your .

podcast looking for the fike Christmas playlist will check out ninety three point nine light F M chicago s Christmas music station playing your favorite holiday artists, including being crosbey mori, Carry for sanatoria, michabo bay and Moore. Turn on the holiday light to get in a festive mood, whether at work, in traffic or at home, putting up the decorations, we can wait to celebrate the season with you. Listen to ninety three point nine light F M in chicago or anywhere in the world on the I heart radio.

When you think about getting creative without fits, I feel like you don't think of silicon valley. He feels that while there is some of the performative, i'm just a regular guy thing. I'm focused on my merit.

I also feel like especially in such a male dominated culture and IT, especially now in the valley, there's a lot of this masculine and kind of you want to be a big tough guy with. And fashion is not for tough guys. And I feel like IT deprives them with something.

IT deprives them with something they could really like. They, there are so many parts of the value that enjoy, I don't know, building composer software, putting together different pieces to make the architecture work. Yeah, the a of doing so aesthetically is somehow feminine. IT just feels like a loss for them.

Yeah, I am a strong believer that you don't have to pay attention closed or do I think people are generally aware of close to something I think more than they like to him, but I don't think anyone has to take a great interest in their and i'm very strong believe that you should never judge a person's deeper, more important inequality based on the dress but I do think that if you um I think of dressed a sort of like eating, like I have to eat to survive and I have to dress to go outside and if I have to do these things um you know I think it's nice to to eat a tasty me overseas boil potatoes and I think it's nicer to wear something that makes me feel good first is something that makes me feel bad um something that makes me feel happy.

There is something that adds nothing to my life and buying those items. Um you know if if you're like really deep into IT, like it's you know like basically a core part of my life, then certain they can take a lot of time but doesn't have to take a lot of your time. And if you just buy things that um you like and make you happy, I think that just adds something to the beginning every day.

No, and it's something to enjoy about your personal. And a lot of these people are quite focused on their identity as well. And but what the reason I had you on here is i've got into clothes recently, and crazy way to word IT.

But the idea of being able to dress yourself in the way that makes you feel good about yourself is fun. And I think that society is very definitely with men. There is this push away from IT.

But IT also, i'm glad you mention what you did there. IT isn't about necessarily putting a ton of attention in. It's feeling good about what you're wearing. And the only time i've really thought of this happening in the valley at scale are familiar american giant hoodies.

Yeah, so there was this weird long period, like a year or two when everyone wanted one they would like actually quite hard to get there with these very heavy hoods. And that was the only time I think there's been like a known esthetic discussion in the valley. And it's it's something I think everyone .

could enjoy. Yeah, I mean, what he is a perfect example. I like canned, canned american generals makes cut ties, not, uh, knocking them. Canberra is the other one that makes these very stop hodes. Uh, I like her is and I think when you put I just like really thin hotties that kind of clan to your body and I like a thicker kind of rumor hoodie and that's just personal preference.

If someone likes the therapy is try to I I don't think when you are paying attention to these things um you know I I don't know when you walk around, you feel a bit Better when you see yourself in the marry, you like how you look, you feel bit more confident. Um I think of it's just like it's just like cooking. You know you could eat boil potatoes, but you know you could also throw some season in in and you will taste Better.

So yeah so actually that this is a good question. How can you dress like a hoody, for example, and look fashionable? Probably probably wrong word. What's a good fun way to dress with a hood, I guess, is what i'm asking.

So I I sort of feel that when we talk about aesthetics in the sense um there is one aesthetic that most people agree looks good and that tends to be aesthetic that are part of the hedgehog I culture.

For example, most people, when they see men and suit, if the suit is assuming it's cut well and you know fits well in all of these things, they usually say all that person looks good, right? And it's sort of like how receive pronunciation even if you dislike the hedgie onic kind of role that IT plays, everyone recognizes that like, oh yeah, that's like the hegemonic you know, way of speaking in. That sounds good.

Once you break out of whatever is hegemonic, then you get into all these niche territories. And there are gonna be a lot of people that don't like how something and as something looks. And that's the same with you know pronunciations of regional kind of dialogues. So when I think of hot is I personally like um the when a hoody leans into a very classic work where a look um so that's like rod and genes, all of fatigues if you're wearing, he knows. And I think it's Better if it's if it's the kind of like tougher, more rugged o styled after the middle th century army chinos that were issued to us vets uh versus the very kind of light business casual look um and then you know like service boots, blond stones um for a jacket, if it's um if the weather lows, you to wear both a hoodie in a jacket, then trucker jackets, bombers, chocolate like anything that seems rug um double the car heart pants also go really well with fifties but again, recognizing that once you leave the world of hegemonic aesthetics and culture and all of this representation, there are a lot of people who say, oh, well, you know that there's a lot of judgments about someone s class and respectability based on whether not they are confirmed these notions, which I don't adhere to, but I think esthetically that kind of like rugged working class look with a hoody looks really good and .

there's nothing about a look like that that has to be sloppy. And I think that's what people associate with .

sometimes true, although I don't have a problem with looking to lobby I, I think you can be sloppy and also be stylish.

There are ways to the west web pants, cool that i've get to work them out. And as far as Jason's look goes, he is mostly just looks like genes genes leave the jacket and black shirt, right?

Yeah there are a couple of um people who have adopters look and you can kind of do easy comparison to see why has works Better. So when you take IT, when you look at jenson hong, if you photos of him and you can also compare his look to square partner sean maguire, shaan myr wears actually pretty similar outfits.

He wears black other jackets, black teeth and black jeans but as jackets just don't fit as nicely um the little bit back year they don't have like you know it's fine for uh another jacket to be begging but he does not look bagging an intentional thoughtful way it's just kind of like a lip lye mp jacket that hangs on him。 And then when you look at jon wrong, there are very strong angular lines that just make him look Better for lack of a Better word. Um and yeah I I think Jenny just happens as soon because of his immense wealth.

Um I seem he just you know uh hired the styles to help with this part of his life when you look at early photos of him, he dressed as a typical kind of tech erd like polo shirts, chaos genes. He just didn't look very stylish but in this way um he looks great. I will say that there was a moment um I maybe like ten years ago and still somewhat today, where you saw women um in professional spaces teaching Taylor jackets, mining sports codes to jackets, blazers and the like and substituting them for black double rider and this was right around the time that black double riders start to come a fashion trend.

And what is a black double rider?

A black double writer is so there are two main types of motorcyle jackets. There is a style called the cafe racer that's a single, I don't know, called a single prostate. But you can think of IT in terms of a single pressure as it's the zip enclosure goes up and down. The center of the body usually has a band color um meant to fit very tight on the body.

And then the double rider is what you think of when you think of marlon brando in the wild one think of shot perfectos and as an s metrical zp and usually A D pocket on one side um has lapels and in I went say like in two thousand and fourteen two thousand and fifteen when Edison min was appointed creative tractor uh single on um he he. And can you actually populists the black tupper writer as a fashion piece? And they made IT from being strictly a utility arian motorcycle garment and turn to fashion piece by kind of making them out of software of lab skin leathers.

So that was kind of clear that the personal wearing IT for style and not for, just like you told, terran purposes. And IT was popular among fashion consciousness en, but IT was especially popular among women who are seeking alternative to a Taylor jacket. And one of the interesting things is that for the period of, I would say like maybe two thousand fourteen, two thousand and fifteen to maybe about two thousand nine, nine, twenty, twenty figures like A O C uh, cdm multiple of ceos that are women, the C E O of, if I remember, quickly hit packet ard.

I think maybe one of the american car companies, all of them started to wear double writers in someone like professional settings, like when they are doing television interviews. I think lc may have even warned a double writer into congress, and that was considered a form of professional dress. And I think it's interesting when I see Johnson wearing a other jacket in this manner that communicates, not he IT, doesn't communicate dangerous rebel communicates professionalism, put together ness. I think it's interesting that comes after that kind of moment where women made IT somewhat Normal in professional spaces.

I wonder if pov IT is IT is also the silla wet is the fact that fits. But in the same way, maybe IT you're the expert here, but in the same way you say that kind of suits give you a there of respectable ability in part because they usually the fit is quite good as in the word's good, maybe something like that because he looks well put together, he doesn't look. Like he just got off a bike.

right? right? yeah. No, I think he looks like is I of all of the tech people, high profile tech people that have tried to improve the look, I think he's most successful.

The other one that comes to mind is um I probably going to butch his name and I apologized if he happens to be listening but adam mosi, I believe he's the president of instagram. Yes he has um he has an instagram account under his last name of si. Um and you can see many was looks there.

His looks are a lot more the less egg, a little bit more kind of I don't want to call them basic, but they are I think they're more approach able for many guys. So instead of like a basic button up shirt who will wear a camp color, instead of like the polls that you see are the cost, he wears polls with a skip color, which is, I think, a little more veste collar. He often lares with jacket. He also, like mark za bert wears a gold chain. And all of these kind of touches, I think, make him look a little bit Better than most tech figures.

People are driven by the search for Better, but when IT comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search IT all, don't search match with. Indeed, the hiring process can be slow and overwhelmed.

Simplify hiring with with indeed, indeed is your matching and hiring platform with over three hundred and fifty million global monthly visitors according to indeed da, and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates fast dits the busy work use indeed for scheduling, screening and messaging so you can connect with candidates faster. Join more than three point five million businesses worldwide that use indeed to hire great talent. Fast listeners of the show will get a seventy five dollar sponsor job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed dot com flash P O D K A T Z twelve that's indeed dot com slash P O D K A T Z twelve terms and conditions supply.

Welcome to decision's decisions. The podcast where boundaries are push and conversations get handed. Join your favorite hosts, me, we Z W T F and me mad b, as we dive deep into the world of non traditional relationships and explode the autou topics surrounding dating. C.

that's right. Every monday and wednesday, we built invite to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriotic norms with a blend of humor, vulnerability and authenticity. We share our personal journeys, navigating authorities, tackling the complexities of modern relationships and engage and thought provoking discussions that chAllenge societal expectations.

from ground breaking interviews with diverse guests to related stories that are resonate with experiences, decisions, decisions. Is gonna be york boat to source for the open dialog about what is truly means to loving connect in today's world.

get ready to reshape your understanding of relationships and embrace the freedom of authentic connection. Tunin enjoying .

the conversation, listen to decisions, decisions on the black effect podcast network, I heart radio APP apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast .

looking for the perfect Christmas playlist will check out ninety three point nine light FM chicago O S Christmas music station playing your favorite ite holiday artists, including bin crosbie, morici, Frank sinatra, michabo bay and Moore. Turn on the holiday light to get in a festive mood, whether at work, in traffic or at home, putting up the decorations. We can't wait to celebrate the season with you. Listen to ninety three point nine light F M. In chicago or anywhere in the world on the, I had radio at.

Something you've said on twitter maybe a month ago, maybe maybe i'm buttering the timeline here is that men kind of get trapped in these troops and they don't do more fun things like jury. What's some other fun things that men can actually do and bring into their wardrobe?

Well, I always so guys to start first with thinking of fashion as social language. So um don't think of IT as just random creative expression. So jen wong, for example, we've been talking about him during this cast in these black bike style, uh, leather jackets, black t shirt and black jeans, often black boots.

So IT would be IT would ruin the look if also he tied like a colorful, I don't know, a colourful neck tie around his his belt loops. You know, like that would just be right. But I would ruin the look I would say for many guys start thinking about fashion, social language and that sense. Think of the different kind of forms of forms that that language can take. So um you know you have to find an esthetic that speaks to that could be like punk, skate um work, wear prop, whatever event guard, whatever IT may be and then stress with that type of intentionally dressed with that aesthetic in mind um don't be afraid of I think when guys are shopping for a jacket day, they go wrong when they shot for the blindest form of a jacket and what they should do is just think of the look they want to create and find the jacket that communicates that look um so it's it's more about thinking of an outfit the way that you would think about how to write a sentence and less about like throwing paint on canvas, for example. Think of the sentence that you want to write and then find a ways to bite clothes and create outfits that essentially communicate something .

as a sentence would yeah I I guess express meeting that you want to just visually like almost like a costume but not not exactly like you're pretending to be something .

yeah I think it's fine to wear things that you know um allow you to explore different faces of your daddy um I think as a general as a general matter, most guys can benefit from wearing a learning peace that usually improves a look.

I would know, just real basic. What do you mean by a leering peace?

So if you think of a guy and chaos and A T shirt or button up shirt and sneakers, you know, even if IT fits well, it's kind of a basic look is not kind of a lot of going on. So he would look a lot Better usually if he has a finishing layer that could be like when you look at animal series um instagram that can be anything from like a chunky textured cardigan to a cool jacket um sometimes when it's too hot to wear a leering peace, you can do IT with a very light light layer.

So in the summer time, or if you happen to live in a in a climate is very warm, you can do a learning piece just by wearing t shirts and then learning a short slave open kind of shirt or that could be a chAmber shirt like a worker um you could even do a kind of like reverse later um so for example, if you imagine a western dinner, but not sure, and a pair of genes that looks fine, but then if you want to create a more layer, luck on button, a few buttons on the western button up sure layer in a rib tank, and then possible even a gold chain, and that will look Better. Um I think when you create these layers, create a little bit more visual interest that helps instead of wearing um you know plane smooth marino v next crew next sweers that you find at the mall get a textured sweater so like a rib sweater or a shuttle sweater or um anything with a bit of text on IT when you again going back to adam mossy, when you go to scream and you look as so where they're often they often have a bit of texture. Um anything to add those elements, a bit of text turing, a bit of learning I think will .

help out and and I think a little bit of IT is kind of relaxing also, just accepting the like people get the people can do whatever they want, it's their own thing and that there is no, there is only you.

And but the one question that I was come back to with shopping in generalist, how like what is the thing? How do you even start finding clothes that actually fit? Like are there stores you recommend that have people that will help? Like nord store, I know has some. It's just that I know most people, myself included, listening to this probably come afford like a custom like .

the jacket for example right again IT IT really comes back to look that you want to create if you decide if you um I would start collecting photos of esthetics that you like um and over time things will emerge and let's say if for example, you prefer a very kind of like preppy look then maybe you go to take crew um if you have a little IT more money to spend maybe you to tod sina though they're not really enjoy the proof just I suppose I guess amErica the veg is turn I can give IT but let's say you want a little bit more of a rugged bike lock. Then if you go to a full edge um if you want a very minimal look maybe you look at the mir um and and you know there are gonna kind of more affordably options that some some listeners going to look up the area and be like, this guy really recommended shop this cells you know like six hundred dollar pants.

But if you can't afford the area, then you can go to a store name cost C O S and they have closed their like lamar or you could look at lamar collaboration with uh unico and they have a line called you just simply you and um that will have many of the merge shapes but in more not only affordable Prices but more affordable materials so that you're not painting for like a silk shirt for example um and yeah I think you start with the aesthetic that you want to create and then fine stores that specialize in that look um in one way is if you find a store or a brand that you really like, go to their instagram account, click the tag section and then you'll see a bunch of people who are posting photos of outfits with those garments. Then you can not only follow the people that are stylish that you would like to kind of emulate um but you can also look at the other brands that they are wearing. So let's say you find that you really like prep and you discover A A story called sid math brain, which is really good for that luck.

And you go to syd Masons instagram, you click the tax section, you see all these people wearing sigma installation ways, and you quick their photos, and you find out, oh, I can also check out, I don't know, mercer for button down shirt and racial clothing for, you know, h he knows and other types of bottom ups. That's a way that you can essentially discover new brands and then go deeper in the rap on those pages. Um you can clack the tax session, you start falling certain accounts, you learn about certain brands and you start saving photos.

You can either bookmark them in instagram or um you can you save them on your phone or your computer, whatever. And I think over time, you just start refining your taste e and figuring out what works for you IT obviously helps if you can. If you're lucky enough, this doesn't not always work but if you can find people online that are built similar to you so if you're a heavy guy is certainly helps to find um if you can find guys that are bit like you on instagram because then you can see what brands they're buying um yeah so I I would start there I would start taking fashioned the social language, look up brands, look up those accounts, find stylish people, follow them, save photos. And then over time, you'll figure out which stores to to check out .

and now the final question, how do you go and buy at the jacket? Where would you start if you want to be like jenson.

is this, can I get can I get deep in the, in the.

in the put absolutely OK .

if you are like, I am very excited that you ask this question. So yeah, I would say, first and foremost, you have to understand that leather is just a material. It's like wool, like cotton.

So it's sort of like when someone asks, how do I buy a leather jacket? That's as vagus asking, how do I buy a wall jacket or cotton jacket? The first question is always rain.

What kind of style, what of the themes do you want to do? And let's say the person is, you know, they fancy themselves as a real rugged, tough guy, you know, working with their hands, loves, but no fixing motorcycle or whatever. Well then probably for you I would recommend uh a tougher leather jacket, maybe in a motorcycle style.

So that would tend to be materials like boot skin, cow hide um those types of jackets will look heavier and more like armor, for example. If someone was searching for that, i'd recommend them to self age um standard and strange probably Carry some leather jackets. I would read them to recommend the check out shot, which is a classic of the jacket maker luis leathers.

Snake oil provisions. All of those shops have those styles and then additionally, they have the types of clothes that you can wear with that leather jacket. So they will have the right flying or shirt and the right genes and the right boots.

You don't have to buy the entire a look from one store. But you know, when you go in that store and you figure like, oh, this is the way I put together that look then but you know the final shirts don't fit me. You can look some wealth for shirts have those qualities.

But let's say you're not that type of guy and you think of yourself as kind of like, I don't know like like the type that I visited to wine bars, right and you um you love listening to like but I don't know classical music or whatever. And and you and you you look at brands like lauro's and you think that your lifestyle, well then you probably want another jacket that's made of software materials, not that kind of like tough, rugged armor like material. So you're going to be looking at, for example, like lambskin.

And for that I would check out val star, which is an italian brand. They do A A A A A one bomber um that's very quite city fied out of softer materials that type of jacket goes really well with tailor trousers um like dressing irs shtand sweaters um checker boots, things like that um who else does love a jackets like that? I assume mr.

P mr. Porter, in house line, mr. P is kind of um they do this kind of like a for I won't call them affordable, but they're more affordable versions of the designer lines that they sell.

And mister people probably have designs like that. Lets say you are um you don't think of yourself as either wine bark guy and you don't think of yourself as like the rocket motors ycl guy. You think of yourself is just kind of like a Normal dad no, you're just like a Normal dude.

Don't have these strong associations. Well then I would maybe check out you know instead of like a double rider which I like um but you know a double writer has loaded up with little bit more meaning so in self a double writer then maybe you can look at bomber jackets. So either a one bomb or in a two bomber and those are um you know those are a little bit more neutral, I think in terms of styling.

Um I would look at buz ricin does some repo repo bombers that people could check out. dr. O probably has some reprint bombers. You can also just go vintage go to a vintage shop, check out like A G one bomber for example. And a one and a two was a little bit like very, very dad. But A G one has um uh a furry collar essentially um that I think looks a little bit more charming um and you know you could wear that with like sweatshirts, jeans um and it's not as if you're a guy that does not identify as wine bar or torcy cle jacket or a motorcycle dude, then obama jacket might might be your thing.

Derek, thank you so much for joining me today. This has been so wonderful. welcome.

People find you. They can find me on twitter at the handle direction are and then also right on my own blog, which is die worker to calm and also uh do a lot of writing for a website I called put this on, but you can go to put this on dot com. That's where most of my service writing is. And if they go there, they click the start here button and take and look at like whole bunch of articles that can get them started to dressing Better.

Thank you so much and everyone. Thank you for listening. And then you're gna complain. You are going to hear me say thank you for listening. That's your problem.

Thanks for everything.

Thank you for listening to Better offline. The editor um composer of the battle offline theme song is matter so sky you can check out more of his music and audio projects a meta salty dot com M A T T O S O W S K I dot com, you can email me are easy at Better or off line dot com or visit Better off line docotor find more podcast links and of course my newsletter. I also really recommend you go to chat that where is your ad or ant to visit the discord and go to ask, lash Better roof lies to check out all red IT. Thank you so much for listening.

Better off line is a production of cool zone media. For more from coal zone media, visit our website, calls on we get dot com or check us out on the I heart radio up apple podcast or whatever you get your podcast.

People are driven by the search for Better, but when IT comes to hiring, the best way to search for a candidate isn't to search IT all, don't search match with. Indeed, the hiring process can be slow and overwhelmed. Simplify hiring with indeed, indeed, is your matching and hiring platform with over three hundred and fifty million global monthly visitors according to indeed data and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates, fast touch the busy work, use indeed for schedule and screening and messaging, so you can connect with candidates faster, join more than three point five million businesses worldwide that use indeed to hire great talent fast listeners of the show will get a seventy five dollar sponsor job credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed that comes slash P O D K A T Z twelve that's indeed dot com slash P O D K A T Z twelve terms and conditions, supply.

Welcome to decisions decisions. The pod test for boundary are pushed and conversations get handed. Join your favorite deep into non traditional relationships and exploit the autou topics surrounding dating sex.

Every monday and wednesday, we both invite you to unlearn the outdated narratives dictated by traditional patriotic norms, tune and enjoying .

the conversation. Listen to decisions, decisions on the black effect podcast network, I heart radio, APP apple pocket, or wherever you get .

your podcast looking for .

the perfect Christmas playlist will check out ninety three point nine light FM chicago Christmas music station playing your favorite holiday artists, including being crosby, mari, Carry for insana ra, michabo bay and Moore. Turn on the holiday light to get in a festive mood, whether at work, in traffic or at home, putting up the decorations, we can wait to celebrate the season with you. Listen to ninety three point nine light F M in chicago or anywhere in the world on the I heart radio.