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cover of episode Bonus Episode: What Is DeepSeek and Why Is It Sinking Stocks?

Bonus Episode: What Is DeepSeek and Why Is It Sinking Stocks?

2025/1/27
logo of podcast Bloomberg Daybreak: Asia Edition

Bloomberg Daybreak: Asia Edition

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Mark Cudmore: 我认为这是一个改变游戏规则的时刻,因为美国科技股在过去14到15年的优越地位可能因此受到冲击。DeepSeek的出现同时利好全球其他地区的生产力增长和企业发展,并对美国科技现象构成冲击。我认为这会对两方面都造成影响。实际上,我认为上周四我们可能看到了美国在全球市值中长期峰值的出现。 Kyle Rada: DeepSeek的出现引发了人们对美国人工智能投资过度、美国竞争优势、以及英伟达等公司估值过高的担忧。它引发了人们对人工智能过度投资的担忧;它引发了人们对美国是否仍然拥有其在世界其他地区拥有的竞争优势的担忧;它还引发了人们对未来芯片需求是否会减少以及英伟达等公司估值过高的担忧。中国似乎已经成为一个非常有竞争力的竞争者,这使得技术和人工智能投资方面的那种谚语式的军备竞赛发生了非常有趣的转变。 Kriti Gupta: DeepSeek使用与OpenAI类似的技术,但成本却低得多。这让人们质疑之前对人工智能的巨额投资是否必要,并引发了科技股的暴跌。许多资金都投入到了人工智能的未来发展中,这当然也造成了大规模的股市上涨。但现在人们担心,也许所有这些资金并不一定需要投入到股市中。例如,一块英伟达Blackwell芯片的市场价格预计在3万到4万美元之间。记住,我们说的是仅仅是一块芯片,当然,对于单个AI数据中心来说,需要大量的这样的单元,而许多这样的公司正试图在世界各地建设数百个数据中心。你可以很快地看到,仅仅一块芯片的价值如何迅速飙升到几乎无法估量的正数。至少,正是这种情绪一直在推动股市上涨。但是,DeepSeek这家使用与OpenAI非常相似的技术的中国人工智能初创公司,现在表示他们可以用更低的成本做到这一点。如果你把人工智能所需的东西想象成一个食谱,你需要芯片、工程师、软件人才、数据中心、电网,甚至还需要天然气或石油来为数据中心供电,甚至是太阳能,对于那些正在研究太阳能的人来说。如果这个食谱中的一个元素现在能够变得便宜得多,那该怎么办呢?这就是DeepSeek在周末和上周所展示的,他们能够做到这一点。他们能够以更低的价格提供相同类型的技术。因此,市场反映出的原因是,等等,如果你能以比之前想象的更低的价格做到这一点,那么为什么这些股票会涨到这种程度呢?这就是今天推动全球科技股暴跌的情绪,也是推动股市上涨的情绪,正如你提到的,直到现在。这确实让即将到来的科技公司财报更加引人注目,许多大型超大型科技公司将在周三公布财报。DeepSeek的出现可能意味着科技巨头们在人工智能领域的巨额投资并非必要,因为DeepSeek证明了以更低成本实现类似的技术是可能的。这些超大型科技公司仍然拥有数万亿美元的现金储备,这些现金储备在疫情后还没有用于收购。科技行业的惯用做法是,你可以通过收购来补充一些交易,购买新技术。例如,想想Facebook当年收购Instagram。这是一个类似的策略。他们实际上并没有这样做,也没有使用这些现金。相反,他们将大量现金用于投资、研究,当然还有人工智能。现在,这里的关键是,也许你不需要这样做。但是,我要提醒你所有这些,因为这仍然是一种实验性技术。这只是一个例子。我们也没有关于他们使用哪种芯片的完整数据,以及成本是多少,以及是否还有其他类似的芯片,或者这只是一个昙花一现。这些问题仍然存在于市场中。

Deep Dive

Chapters
The emergence of DeepSeek, a Chinese AI startup, is causing ripples in the global tech industry. Its cost-effective AI model, capable of running on less advanced chips, is challenging the dominance of US tech giants and their high valuations. This has led to significant drops in the share prices of major tech companies.
  • DeepSeek's AI model is competitive with offerings from OpenAI and Meta.
  • The model runs cost-effectively on less advanced chips.
  • This challenges the high valuations of US tech companies like Nvidia and Intel.
  • Major tech stocks experienced significant drops following the DeepSeek news.

Shownotes Transcript

Translations:
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Capital Ideas, conversations with Mike Gitlin from Capital Group, features our top investment professionals sharing what drives them in today's market. Get stories and actionable insights. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Capital Client Group, Inc. Bloomberg Audio Studios. Podcasts. Radio. News.

Good morning, I'm Nathan Hager. And I'm Karen Moscow. Here are the stories we're following today. And Karen, we begin with concerns over the impact that a Chinese artificial intelligence startup could have on big U.S. tech stocks. It is called DeepSeek. Buzz grew over the weekend about DeepSeek's latest AI model being cost-effective while running on less advanced chips. That's casting doubt on the validity of the sky-high valuations for companies like Intel,

NVIDIA. We get more from Bloomberg Markets reporter Mark Cudmore. I think this is probably a game-changing moment because I think suddenly the whole U.S. stock exceptionalism of the last 14, 15 years is probably undermined by this because it simultaneously is good for productivity and growth in the rest of the world, good for companies all over the rest of the world, and undermines the whole U.S. tech phenomenon. So I think it hits both sides. So I think actually last Thursday we probably saw the long-term peak in U.S. share of global market cap.

Bloomberg's Mark Cudmore says the AI model from DeepSeek is widely seen as competitive with OpenAI and Meta's latest offerings. Nathan, Chinese startup DeepSeek is now top of the iPhone download charts despite being hobbled by sanctions. Capital.com senior market analyst Kyle Rada says it raises questions about the market narrative around U.S. tech dominance.

If anyone's on a sort of group chat with equity investors or any kind of equity strategist, phones are running hot effectively talking about, well, what is this product? How have they achieved these outcomes? And what does this mean for the AI investment boom in the United States? You know, it raises concerns about overinvestment in artificial intelligence. It raises concerns that perhaps the United States might have the competitive advantage that it has over the rest of the world. It raises concerns that chip demand won't be as great going forward either, and companies like NVIDIA are overvalued.

Capital.com Senior Market Analyst Kyle Rotta. Several of the big tech stocks falling on the news. Nvidia shares down 10 percent. ASML is off by about 11 percent. Meta and Microsoft are lower by well more than 4 percent. Palantir down 6 percent. Supermicro and SoundHound are off by at least 9 percent. And Karen, this deep-seek news comes just as investors brace for a slew of earnings from the Magnificent Seven. Bloomberg's John Tucker is following this end of the story. And John, an

Feels like the news couldn't get any more dicey. Well, it could. The company's sharers have been near record highs. Their valuations are stretched, Nathan. And to this, the fact that the group's profit growth, it's projected to come in at the slowest pace in almost two years. Profits for the seven giants are projected to increase by...

22% in the fourth quarter from a year earlier. That actually would be the smallest jump since the first quarter of 2023. The seven companies' announcements, they start Wednesday. That's when Microsoft, Meta, and Tesla are scheduled to report. Apple follows Thursday while we get...

Alphabet and Amazon next week, and then chipmaker NVIDIA. That comes late February. CapEx also going to be a big theme. Microsoft, Alphabet, Amazon admit it. They're all projected to have spent more than $200 billion combined on capital expenditures in their last fiscal year. And they've all pledged to spend more in the current year. In New York, I'm John Tucker, Bloomberg Radio.

Coast to coast on Bloomberg Radio. Nationwide on Sirius XM. And around the world on Bloomberg.com and the Bloomberg Business App. This is Bloomberg Daybreak. Good morning. I'm Nathan Hager. We are seeing a rout in tech stocks this morning. Chinese startup DeepSeek is driving a lot of buzz around the idea of a low-cost artificial intelligence model running on less advanced chips.

Capital.com senior market analyst Kyle Rada says it could mark a narrative shift for the U.S.-led AI boom. That kind of proverbial arms race in technology investment and AI investment has taken a very, very interesting turn when now China looks like a very viable competitor, uh,

and a competitor that perhaps might catch the ire of the Trump administration. It's Kyle Radha of Capital.com. And for more, we're joined by Bloomberg Radio and Television News anchor Kriti Gupta. Kriti, good morning. What is it about DeepSeek's model that we're hearing about right now that's got tech investors clearly so spooked this morning?

Well, good morning, Nathan. This is kind of the worst nightmare for a tech bull in that we know that so much money has been pumped specifically from the hyperscalers like Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, etc., who are sitting on trillions of dollars of cash just getting pumped into the future of artificial intelligence.

And that's, of course, what's created this massive stock market rally. The concern here now is that maybe all of that money didn't necessarily need to be put in to the extent that it has in the stock market. Let me walk you through some of my math here. And Nathan, for example, one NVIDIA Blackwell chip is expected to go on the market for somewhere like $30,000 to $40,000 per unit. Remember, we're talking about a chip alone and, of course, a ton, basically, of units per

used for one individual AI data centers, as so many of these companies are trying to build out, of course, hundreds of data centers around the world. So you can see very quickly how the argument of just how much one chip is valued can kind of skyrocket into almost an unknown positive figure. And that's the sentiment, at least, that's been fueling the stock market rally. But

But then lo and behold, DeepSeek, this Chinese startup around AI that's using technology very similar to that of OpenAI, which is already kind of on the front of the latest in AI.

They are now saying that they can do it on a much cheaper cost. So if you're talking about the things you need to get to artificial intelligence, think of it as a recipe. You need chips. You need engineers. You need software kind of talent who are thinking about this. You need a data center. You need an electricity grid. You need things like natural gas or oil to power that data center, even solar, for example, for the folks that are looking into that. Imagine if that

one element of that recipe is now able to be significantly cheaper. That's what DeepSeek has basically shown over the weekend and in going into last week as well, that they can do that. They can provide the same sort of technology for a much cheaper price. So the reason you're seeing the market reflected is saying, well, hold on a second. If you can do this for not as expensive

expensive of a price as previously thought, then why have these stocks been rallying to such an extent? And that's kind of the sentiment that's driving this global tech route today. And it's a sentiment that had driven so much of the rally, as you mentioned, up to now. That puts a focus, a pretty bright spotlight now, doesn't it, on the tech earnings that are coming up as soon as Wednesday for a lot of these big hyperscalers?

It absolutely does. And I think context is everything here, Nathan, because remember these hyperscalers, I mean, we talk about just a handful of companies that are powering NVIDIA. Remember NVIDIA over about 50% of their kind of gains and their customer base is really just from a handful of the mag seven names, your Amazons, your Microsofts, et cetera. And they're able to invest that much because they are still sitting on trillions of dollars of cash post pandemic and

And things that haven't really been able to be deployed in acquisitions. And this is something that the tech playbook is known very well for that, you know, you kind of bolt on some of these deals. You buy new technology. Think of Facebook, for example, buying Instagram back in the day. It's a similar playbook. They haven't really been able to do that and use that cash.

Instead, they're spending a lot of that cash in investment, in research, and of course, in AI. Now, basically, the element here is that maybe you don't need to do that. But I'm going to caveat all of this, Nathan, by simply saying this is still experimental technology. This is still just one example. And we also don't have the full figures on what kind of chips they use, just how much it's costing, and whether or not there are others like it, or if this is just kind of a one-hit wonder. Those are still the questions that remain in this market.

This is Bloomberg Daybreak, your morning podcast on the stories making news from Wall Street to Washington and beyond. Look for us on your podcast feed by 6 a.m. Eastern each morning on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere else you listen. You can also listen live each morning starting at 5 a.m. Wall Street time on Bloomberg 1130 in New York, Bloomberg 99.1 in Washington, Bloomberg 92.9 in Boston, and nationwide on Sirius XM Channel 121.

Plus, listen coast to coast on the Bloomberg Business app now with Apple CarPlay and Android Auto interfaces. And don't forget to subscribe to Bloomberg News Now. It's the latest news whenever you want it, in five minutes or less. Search Bloomberg News Now on your favorite podcast platform to stay informed all day long. I'm Karen Moscow. And I'm Nathan Hager. Join us again tomorrow morning for all the news you need to start your day right here on Bloomberg Daybreak.

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