298. NEW Supplement Ingredients You Need To Know About!
01:00:59 Share

Applebee's has a brand new Big Easy menu. It features all your Bourbon Street favorites in one new menu. Plus a new Bourbon Street chicken and chicken and andouille sausage penny starting at just $11.99. Limited time, price, participation, and selection may vary. Jewelry isn't a gift you give just once. It's a way to remind your loved one of a beautiful moment every time they see it.

Blue Nile can help you find the gift that says how you feel and says it beautifully with expert guidance and a wide assortment of jewelry of the highest quality at the best price. Go to BlueNile.com and experience the convenience of shopping Blue Nile, the original online jeweler since 1999. That's BlueNile.com to find the perfect jewelry gift for any occasion. BlueNile.com.

If you're a maintenance supervisor for a commercial property, you've had to deal with everything from leaky faucets to flickering light bulbs. But nothing's worse than that ancient boiler that's lived in the building since the day it was built 50 years ago. It's enough to make anyone lose their cool. That's where Grainger comes in. With industrial-grade products and dependable, fast delivery, Grainger can help with any challenge, from worn-out components to everyday necessities. Call Grainger.

The information provided in this podcast episode is for entertainment purposes and is not medical advice. If you have any questions about your health, contact a medical professional. This content is strictly the opinions of Lucas Owen and is for informational and entertainment purposes only.

The references, claims and scientific information linked to any products are only applicable to those listeners who are based in the US. If you are outside the US, this information does not apply to you. It is not intended to provide medical advice or to take the place of medical advice or treatment from a personal physician. All viewers of this content are advised to consult with their doctors or qualified health professionals regarding specific health questions.

Thank you for listening to the Boost Your Biology podcast. My name is Lucas Owen. I uncover the most cutting edge health information on the planet, ranging from hormones, nutrition, supplementation, fat loss, biohacking, longevity, wellness, and a whole lot more. Welcome to the Boost Your Biology podcast.

Alright, welcome everyone to another episode of the Boost Your Biology podcast. Today I'm super excited. We have the chief brand officer from N&B Nutrition, Dustin Elliott. Dustin, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Nice to meet you all. Nice to be talking with you again. It's been a great week so far in Australia, so excited to catch up. Yeah, awesome. So maybe for my listeners, Dustin, I mean...

You're pretty well versed in terms of they love learning about new ingredients. They love understanding the science behind how they work. They love understanding mechanisms and things like that. Maybe do you want to let my audience know a little bit about your journey? How you got so fascinated into like sports nutrition and supplementation?

Yeah, so my background was in strength and conditioning, you know, exercise science sort of similar to you, or at least how you started. And really what ended up happening was is while I was doing internships and going to school for exercise science, I was also working in a supplement store right across the street from my university.

So while I'm working at that supplement store, you know, I had this competitive edge that was lost since I stopped playing football. CrossFit didn't exist yet. You know, a lot of these like modern competitions like high rocks and stuff didn't exist yet. So the only way I could feel that appetite was through natural bodybuilding. Right. So I did like the drug tested natural bodybuilding shows, ended up getting deeper into the supplements and the supplement world.

So when the opportunity arose to enter the supplement industry versus going into strength and conditioning, of course I took it.

There was a manufacturer who had just bought like a local brand to Miami and they were essentially looking for a cheap way of finding a future formulator for that brand. And in exercise science, although, you know, it's not chemistry, but you do get a feel for how to break down research studies and research protocols. And I was already obsessed with ingredients.

They decided to hire me and train me for that role, you know, versus going out and finding a formulator that would have cost four or five times as much. So I end up working for them. I'm working for this brand. Then I end up working for the contract manufacturer. I end up consulting for more brands as the brand I was working for grew to be from a $750,000 brand. When they hired me, they bought like a startup. It grew to be a $10 million brand from the products that I formulated.

ended up working for a CrossFit brand as well as an assistant brand manager and formulator to the head brand manager and That company was bought by the second largest retailer in the United States company called vitamin shop for those of you who live in the US and So when they bought this manufacturer that I worked for Vitamin shop had started an initiative where they essentially wanted their private label brands that they owned to look

feel and be formulated like brands that could stand on their own. Right. Private label in the industry is historically just copy that product and see how it goes. Charge less to the consumer.

They wanted a bit more than that. Yes, there were commodity single ingredient items they wanted to duplicate that they could do at a lower cost, but they wanted their own formulas. They wanted to use their pricing advantage of not having a middleman, which is the pricing advantage that private label has. Private label is not necessarily lower quality. It's just that there's no middleman in the process. That's why the pricing is better.

And so they wanted to use that as an opportunity to just create better formulas, create better products for customers. And so when they bought this contract manufacturer I worked for, they saw me there. I had formulated for multiple brands. I had been consulting for brands that were running products through that contract manufacturer.

even had some really cool opportunities where the contract manufacturer I worked for being based out of South Florida had international business. So I did some consulting in South Africa, did some consulting in Portugal as well for companies out there, really cool experiences, right? Go out there for a week, learn the market, tell them, you know, what's what, uh, ingredients would be best for this market, what formulations would work best. So long story short, end up working for vitamin shop, uh,

managing their private label brands, but also doing the formulas for their private label brands. And they had three different brands. It was over 100 SKUs between the three brands. And that was before I came to work with NNB and met you. That was the big opportunity that sort of put me on the map and put me in line for this opportunity with working with NNB. Yeah, it's incredible. I mean, just hearing about your journey

seeing the full scope of the supplement industry evolve over time.

And now that you're at NNB Nutrition, maybe talk to my audience because they may not have heard of NNB Nutrition. So maybe sort of explain to them, you know, what the company stands for, some of the unique ingredients. Yeah. Well, one thing I think your audience will really like when it comes to talking about NNB is some background on the ingredients that they take every single day. Right.

So for those of you who don't know, yes, manufacturing for products can happen all over the world. But 80% of your ingredients come from India and China. And when 80% of your ingredients come from India and China, what ends up happening is that there can sort of be a bottleneck when it comes to innovation.

A bottleneck meaning you have major distribution companies of raw materials who sell these raw materials to brands, but it is up to independent scientists who are pitching these distribution companies their ideas or the distribution companies themselves to come up with ideas to present to these manufacturers in China and India to create these products and create these ingredients.

And then the question is, is how close are these people to the customers? Because I can tell you working in my industry, there are a lot of scientists that I've met that have great ideas that are disconnected from the needs of your consumers. They're disconnected from the needs of your audience. And so there are a lot of ingredients out there that are like dead on arrival when I look at them and look at what they promise.

And you have a lot of distribution companies that distribute ingredients that are so worried about margin and pricing that...

They're not always all in when it comes to meeting the needs of your consumers when it comes to an ingredient or supplement science. Part of them is sort of strangled by the desire for a manufacturing efficiency and cost and things like that. So where does N&B come into the mix, right? What makes our company different? Your original question.

Well, NNB is a manufacturer of ingredients, which typically in this industry is a company who's behind the scenes. Maybe he doesn't speak a whole lot of English, is just centered in China, is waiting on a customer to come to them with an idea so they can manufacture for that customer. And what differentiates NNB, I would say, is the president of the company, Kai Lin, who...

is very, compared to other vendors and manufacturers that I've met, very open, is very into big ideas, is very open to taking risks. He really wants to put his best foot forward in terms of ingenuity, research, results, and absorb the risk and manage the risk and the pricing and the cost after the fact.

So he's sort of putting the cart before the horse. Most of his competitors are like, how much are we going to make from this? How efficient is this going to be? Whereas Kylan is like, all right,

How great is this? How great, how effective is this going to be? How much is this going to work? You know, how much of the market can we capture? And then, okay, we'll figure out how to make the costs and all these things work on the backend. And so his partnership with Sean is unique because a lot of these Chinese, uh, and companies from India, uh,

don't have an American innovator, especially not of the caliber of Sean Wells, that they're working with directly who's coming up with ideas. A lot of other distributors are getting approached or getting in touch with a scientist who has an idea to convert that idea into reality for them, or they're simply trying to become a distributor or they're trying to trademark their own version of an existing ingredient. Hmm.

Where NMB sets itself apart is making Sean's ideas come to life. And that has resulted in very innovative ingredients. And so we are what I call vertically integrated. We are one of the few...

manufacturers of ingredients in this industry that is manufacturing and distributing the ingredients directly to brands and as a result of being vertically integrated and as a result of having someone who has been involved with over 50 patented ingredients in his lifetime who's been involved with a lot of innovations and

NNB is producing ingredients the market hasn't seen before and NNB is producing new ingredients at a pace the market hasn't seen before. Maybe it'd be worthwhile, Dustin, I mean, NNB's clearly set themselves apart from many other manufacturers with some stunning ingredients and also the openness to exploring some of these unique compounds.

One of them I know a lot of my audience will be interested in and I've sort of spoken about a fair bit is dihydroberberine. Yeah. Now, let's just put this out there and, you know, truly do believe that if anyone is currently using berberine,

they need to switch over to dihydroberberine. I would say so. So maybe, Dustin, do you want to elaborate the evolution of this particular ingredient? Yeah. So berberine, I mean, your audience is pretty well-versed, so I don't have to rehash too much with berberine. But what I can say is that if your audience wants to dive into some of the recent research on the bioavailability of berberine, it's fairly low.

which I still, you know, kudos to berberine as an ingredient, you know, because dihydroberberine is from berberine. So berberine, I mean, how effective it is despite its bioavailability issues, despite the gastric distress it can cause in high dosages, it's still very effective and has given people great results. And to your statement earlier, you know, anybody using berberine should be ready to make the switch, right?

I mean, the process for berberine, it must convert, and you've mentioned this in some of your content, it must first convert to dihydroberberine in the intestines before increasing berberine levels in the blood. And so with dihydroberberine skipping that step, us making pure dihydroberberine and skipping that step, we're finding that the 100 milligram dosage of dihydroberberine can increase berberine in the blood five times more than regular berberine.

but the 200 milligram dose that we typically recommend for brands, we're talking about a 20 times increase of berberine in the blood. So for those of you who are trying to use 1500 milligrams of berberine a day to get the max effect,

and your stomach is going crazy after two to three weeks. I mean, 200 milligrams twice a day, no gastric upset in our research. I mean, that was sort of like the impetus behind, okay, we need to go head first into doing more research into dehydroberberine, finding out how dehydroberberine works, getting it into more products.

And that's essentially what we did. So our journey with the hydroberberine from our first research study was the absorption study, which I alluded to, where we found how much it increased berberine in the blood with the 100 milligram dose and at the 200 milligram dose with no gastric upset. But the further exploration we've done has also inferred on how berberine may work.

So clinical research on berberine, a lot of people are looking at berberine compared to metformin. You know, they think it's like a duplicate. They think because of the research that showed berberine's effectiveness compared to metformin, that berberine works like metformin. And it's, you know, me being around all these scientists, you know, it's interesting how some people can forget, you know, berberine wasn't...

created in response to metformin, berberine is naturally occurring in nature. There should automatically be an assumption that the pathway in which berberine works is different than a drug. And because people don't think that way, I don't think people fully understand the way in which berberine and how dihydroberberine works. We've done research, human clinical research, where we've shown that berberine

or and the hydro berberine it does not drop blood sugar in somebody with healthy blood sugar levels right and if it was metformin there would be some sort of decline because metformin is decreasing all blood sugar in a bubble right and that's why metformin is big for the anti-aging crowd because of that level of metabolic control

But, uh, dehydroberberine and we were talking the other day, I've sort of, uh, coined this for dehydroberberine, but by no means is it, uh, an exact term, take it as a layman's term, but I think of it more as an adaptogen for blood sugar control.

I have taken the hydroberberine when my blood sugar levels are low. I've taken it during fasting, and it'll bring my blood sugar back to homeostasis. And then for people who have high blood sugar, they've taken the hydroberberine, and obviously it'll help to bring your blood sugar back to homeostasis. So I perceive, I look at berberine from a natural aspect, which I think more people should, and I think that it'll actually widen the application for it beyond metformin.

obviously with less side effects. And dihydroberberine in particular, because we're finding that it's not dropping blood sugar in healthy individuals, it's not causing hypoglycemia, you can use up to 300 milligrams and it's not causing any major side effects with blood lipid profiles. I think there's a new way to look at this. Everyone from people who are trying to

have adequate carbohydrate supply and storage in the muscle. People are looking for nutrient partitioning. The Hydroberberine works. People who are fasting and want to control appetite and blood sugar levels, the Hydroberberine works. People who are just simply having a high carbohydrate meal and want to save themselves from the blood sugar crash and from the after effects, the Hydroberberine works. But then also through its blood sugar control and management, it's a great appetite control agent.

You know, we were talking earlier about how Ben from the Price Plow podcast, you know, he was an early user of a dihydroberberine because we shared samples with him early. And he was using ridiculous amounts of the stuff today. I mean, he's using doses of like 300 milligrams multiple times a day. And he had a hard time gaining weight.

And we're seeing in our mice studies that there are anti-obesity effects to dihydroberberine. And I think it's in large part to that appetite control, you know, just not being able to eat enough to gain the weight. Which could be linked to the new GLP-1 research?

Yeah, I think it's largely linked to the new GLP-1 research. So we're soon going to be starting a study for human clinicals on GLP-1, rid of hydroberberine. And these human clinicals are going to play off of our preclinicals, our rodent model studies that we've done where –

Look, we know GLP-1 increases when you have like a high fat, high calorie diet, right? It's your body's... GLP-1 is produced in your body, you know. Just because we have GLP-1 drugs, you know, don't forget your body produces it. You know, I've...

I've been trying to teach this to friends. It's the same issue that I had with creatine. Everybody's scared and talking about creatine. I'm like, your body produces it, so don't be scared of it. So with the GLP-1, yes, GLP-1 raises in response to high-calorie meals, higher blood sugar, but we're finding...

the effect is compounded by dehydroberberine. Exponential increases, and we found in rodent models up to 95% increase in GLP-1 with the use of dehydroberberine in mice that were fed a high-calorie diet. So what's happening is that when you do increase caloric consumption or if your blood sugar is higher when you're using dehydroberberine, the hydroberberine and its adaptogen-like properties...

it will increase the GLP-1 exponentially to counteract what's going on. And this is interesting because there's a competitor on the market, Aramine, which already has GLP-1 research, but their research was in high blood sugar individuals versus high blood sugar individuals. And they found just a 13% increase in GLP-1 in the high blood sugar group with Aramine versus the high blood sugar group without Aramine.

And so to me, if your blood sugar is high, well, let's take a step back. There's two different things here. When your blood sugar is high, we actually see depression of GLP-1 in that instance. Whereas when you're having like a high calorie diet, you see an increase in GLP-1. So I just wanted to take that step back to sort of clarify that when Aramine was just looking at blood sugar levels, like consistent blood sugar levels,

They were only able to find a 13% gap.

What we found was a 95% gap in GLP-1 with a group that had a high blood sugar and rodent mice versus a group that had high blood sugar and rodent mice with the GLP-1. So we're thinking that our human clinicals are also going to find a very large gap in GLP-1 in high blood sugar individuals. And then also going back to GLP-1 increasing with a high calorie diet,

I think we're definitely going to find that there's going to be an exponential increase with GLP-1. So, I mean, I would say like a big area of focus that I've noticed over the past like two to three years in a particular trend is most people are complaining about a lack of energy. Yeah. And so we're sort of starting this discussion looking at dihydroberberine as a unique ingredient to dihydroberberine.

blood sugar levels and basically have that adaptogenic effect, minimizing crashes and also preventing super high peaks in blood sugar. So maybe you wanna talk about, I mean, everyone's looking for more energy. Could dihydroberberine be an ingredient to actually help with maintaining great levels of energy throughout the day?

100% because everyone's looking for energy, but oftentimes people are looking for energy in like all the wrong places. And when I say all the wrong places, I'm saying 99% of people, it's just caffeine. Absolutely. That's their go-to for energy. They have a big meal, they crash after the meal, caffeine.

They don't get enough sleep, caffeine. They're dehydrated and tired, caffeine. And so to sort of answer your question, right now the number one need state for Americans is energy. Yep.

The statistic I think is one out of three Americans have a high blood sugar levels. You know, they're almost pre-diabetic. So their blood sugar levels are above normal. And of those, a vast majority of them don't even know that they're close to pre-diabetic or currently pre-diabetic. And so, you know, I don't want to say correlation equals causation because there's no directly linked study on this, but, uh,

A country where blood sugar inefficiency is running rampant is also the same country that is constantly complaining about needs for energy.

And then just looking at the science of it, yes, lack of blood sugar control does affect not only your energy levels, but your appetite. And Americans have an issue with controlling appetite. So let's take a look at this further in terms of blood sugar levels. So when your blood sugar drops, you know, you get an increase in appetite, but then there's also the fatigue that's associated with it. And

The blood sugar drop that most Americans feel is typically in response to a high-carbohydrate meal, in particular refined carbohydrates, this absence of fiber, this absence of requiring your body to break down carbohydrates, just flooding your system with glucose. And it results in crashes and energy fluctuations that make it difficult for Americans to maintain energy levels during the day.

And so one of the things I find with the hydroberberine, whether it be a fast or whether it just be taking it before meals, is that when you're able to control those blood sugar levels, you can have a maintenance of energy, wakefulness. We're even going to be looking at mood in our next research study because you can even have sort of this baseline control of mood when you're able to adequately control blood sugar. So it's like...

if energy is the problem looking at some of the roots of the problem because caffeine isn't the answer to the energy problem caffeine masks the energy problem and it's not that caffeine is a bad per se it has its great uses during the day i just think consumption levels for average people of caffeine have gotten way too high i think it's gone beyond functional use

And more people should start looking at caffeine as like a pain medication. You know, pain medication has its uses, but you really want to address the issue before you just mask it. Definitely. Let's sort of switch gears, Dustin. And I guess I would love to focus on another ingredient that's like really, I would say,

Going to hit the mainstream pretty soon. Okay. Which is, we're talking about it on the way here, this dilucine peptide. Yes. Now, we were sort of discussing how the BCAA market and the essential amino acid market has evolved over the years. And we're now uncovering the beneficial effects of how different pathways are able to stimulate muscle protein synthesis, mTOR,

And we're realizing that one of the key mediators of driving up that muscle protein synthesis is actually leucine. But what not many people are familiar with is this new form, I would say this advanced version of leucine, which has already been so well studied, called dilucine. So maybe you want to expand upon that unique ingredient. Yeah, dilucine is an interesting one. So it is two leucine molecules that are bonded.

And we found the existence of dilucine in nature as well. And so, you know, if you look at some of the charts that we've plotted out, everything from pea protein to rice protein to whey protein, anything that contains leucine from an amino acid perspective also contains, you know, micro amounts of dilucine.

And so I've come up with all kinds of crazy theories on why that is. One of my crazy theories is, okay, we know that peptides are occurring in all amino acids, all kinds of peptide chains. A lot of them are dormant on their own. But if you pick the right chain or the right molecule, it'll have some activity for the human body. And we're finding this dilucine molecule occurring in nature.

And when we do direct comparisons, we're finding that in the human body, there's something called a PEPT-1 transporter for peptides. It's one of the reasons why peptides are bioavailable, because our body has a transport system that favors peptides. So they have an absorption rate, an absorption level that's unmatched by any other amino acid that you can consume.

And our dilucine molecule interacts with this PEPT1 transporter, confirming its activity as a peptide. So it gets absorbed faster. You get 86% more leucine in the muscle in just 30 minutes. But also, there's a higher rate of protein synthesis versus regular leucine, 60% higher.

And so it's not a matter of just taking more leucine to try to get the effects of dilucine. This PEPT1 transporter, this speed of getting leucine into the muscle, the response that it causes, it's not something where you could just dose leucine higher to replicate this. You can't replicate this speed. You can't replicate this transport system.

And we know that you can't because we're doing direct leucine to dilucine research and finding greater gains and strength and recovery. And the reason why this is important for me, I've been in this industry for a long time. I've seen a lot of anabolic herbal combinations and amino acids and ectosterones come about.

And it's always wrapped up in in vitro research, you know, like mechanism of action for ectosterones. Maybe this is why it works. But then does it prove out in humans? Rarely ever. Then you see all kinds of human research for these herbal blends that are anabolic and promote recovery. But it's always versus what? Placebo. Right.

Right. And so something is always going to work better than nothing in my book. Right. And so all these studies are tailored to make all these ingredients work. What we did was is we went head to head with the gold standard. We believe that leucine is what makes a protein tick. Right. The bioavailability of whey protein and its leucine content make it the best protein.

So we went head to head, dilucine versus leucine in research and dilucine one in every respect. So we know we don't just have an anabolic amino acid compared to nothing.

we have an anabolic amino acid compared to the most anabolic amino acid. I mean, HMB has a research study where they compared 3.5 grams of HMB versus 3.5 grams of leucine. And while, yes, there's a lot of great research for HMB in fighting sacropania and muscle wasting and promoting recovery and muscle management, it's...

it didn't beat leucine when it comes to sheer protein synthesis at 3.5 grams, right? In a head-to-head study. And we're beating leucine and protein synthesis in head-to-head research, which makes it extremely interesting, even compared to any other anabolic amino acids that you may find in the market.

So that's what I find really interesting about dilucine. And, you know, just for the market in general, the fact that they can say they have a genuine peptide on their hands that's over the counter, that's legal, I think it's huge. And also oral. And that's also oral. And all the research is proven for its oral activity, right? Like you have a lot of peptides on the market. People are trying to make a capsule version because people are scared of needles and stuff like that. But where's the research on the capsule version, right? When all the research is intravenous, right?

All the research here is oral. Dosage? Dosage is just two grams is all you need. And it's interesting when we look at it. My hidden theory is that if leucine is what makes a protein tick, what if dilucine is what makes leucine tick? That'll be interesting to find out.

- So definitely dilution is definitely gonna be a hot one that I know my audience will be interested in and learning more about. Obviously they can check that out, leave that in the podcast show notes if they wanna understand that molecule further. Another sort of area that I would say is

in quite high demand is the nootropic space. - Oh, 100%. - And I was just talking to Dustin this morning about one of my clients getting a remarkable effect from the Alpha GPC. - Yes, yes. - The genius pure version. So just to put it into perspective for those who've sort of touched on nootropics, if you go into a supplement store and you have a look at the ingredient labels,

there's a very, very high chance that you'll come across alpha GPC listed on the back of a supplement label and looking at the ingredient panel. It's either that, cognizant or CDP choline, or they'll use some acetyl L-carnitine. But alpha GPC has always been considered to be like one of the most bioavailable versions of as a choline donor. Now,

Choline is an incredible nutrient that's needed for muscle performance, contractions, brain performance, and things like that. But your version, specifically N&B's version of alpha-GPC, is superior to all the other forms on the market. Do you want to sort of explain why? Yeah. So, you know, the purpose of using a choline donor is to increase acetylcholine in the brain.

And so all these different choline donors that you'll see, the CDP choline, the alpha GPC, they have the promise of increasing acetylcholine in the brain through different pathways. And right now on the market, when you look at these choline donors and you look at the research, the research is typically over time, continuous use, anywhere from four to six weeks.

And the research, unfortunately, is also typically with older individuals, oftentimes in a disease state. Alzheimer's, cognitive decline, something along those lines. And I think all of these choline donors are great in general still for fighting that cognitive decline and the research pointing to that. My issue being in the sports nutrition world is choline donors are getting hot for pre-workouts, energy drinks, nootropics, all things energy-related.

And so although the research, I think, is amazing and it shows how well choline donors work, I take issue with the fact that in this industry, you typically shouldn't be making a claim based off of someone in a disease state.

And the issue is that for a healthy person, you know, the mechanisms of action may be more effective for somebody in a depressed or diseased state or in a state of decline than with a healthy person. You shouldn't be able to promise the same effects. And that's generally a rule in this industry that is followed from a regulatory standpoint. But for these choline donors, they're still using research techniques.

over the course of four to six weeks of continuous use daily with someone who's older and in cognitive decline to infer on a pre-workout that a 30-something year old or a 20-something year old is taking. And they're expecting it to work from one use and all the research is from four to six weeks of use.

And don't get me wrong, there are some acute studies out there. There's some acute performance studies out there with like a really high dose of alpha GPC. There's a study out there with alpha GPC combined with caffeine that shows some effect for acute use. But in that same study, when they looked at alpha GPC on its own in a separate group, there was nothing. And so, you know, it's not just, you know, then the question is, okay, what's the difference between our alpha GPC and others?

Well, I know we've done a lot of looking at other alpha GPCs on the market. First of all, there are other high concentration alpha GPCs out there that are non-branded. The issue with the non-branded, and you know companies will that are branded will say this all the time, the excipients that are used, how clean is it, does it match you know the label on the specifications, is it the real deal? A lot of those things are up in question, which is why branded ingredients versus generic, even though it looks like the same ingredient,

tend to perform better with customers because of how reputable they are, right? We already know that there's a disaster with testing sometimes with ingredients and to buy non-branded versions of ingredients. I can't say that all non-branded versions are bad, but yeah, you do run into some quality and consistency issues with non-branded ingredients. So hence the reason for branded alternatives.

But speaking on that front, when it comes to branded ingredients, most of the research for the branded choline donors, AlphaGPC in particular, is 50% concentration. We're using a 90% concentration. So not only are we using more of a pure form of the ingredient, we've taken soy and a lot of excipients out of this ingredient as well. And so that may play into why it's so effective with just one dose. Also, because it's 90%,

The exact same dose of our ingredient versus the exact same dose of the 50%, you're obviously going to get more actual alpha-GPC out of dosing our ingredient. And so what we're finding is we took a completely different turn from the market. Young, healthy, trained individuals, one dose. We even used a super high dose of 700 milligrams with no side effects, but we recommend a 350 milligram dose, which is where all the claims come from.

is there's something called the Stroop test it's considered to be the gold standard for cognitive function flexibility memory and all these different parameters that the Stroop test tests for we sort of equate this to focus because when you use focus as a general term it's like well what does focus mean so in this context focus is according to the Stroop test that tests for all the things that somebody would associate with focus

And there was a 108% increase in performance on this cognitive Stroop test versus placebo, which means that if you agree with us and you equate the Stroop test to focus,

Doubling your focus with one dose, a 108% increase in focus. First of all, you can't find an acute study or a study that shows a response to one dose of any choline donor out there that increases cognitive performance.

And even if you did, for argument's sake, there's nothing out there that says it's going to double your focus. Right. And so that's huge for Alpha GPC. And even like your client was talking about the results, the results they got when they combine it with the black ginger. I think we have without a shadow of a doubt, you know, the best Alpha GPC product on the market for that nootropic pre-workout and energy drink audience. Yeah.

Originally when I first came across AlphaGPC, it was in the context of just, it was from a company called Powder City back in the day. Okay. You may be familiar with them.

And I remember the very first time that I subjectively tried alpha-GPC and this was without me eating many eggs in my diet because obviously choline is rich in eggs. The first time I tried alpha-GPC, there was a pretty pronounced effect on alertness. It actually found a very stimulating, like an energy effect in that regard. But what you're basically saying here is that this NNB's vasodilator

version of Alpha GPC, this Genius Pure,

you're basically taking an ingredient that's already got a pretty well established track record and you're literally just leveling it up. Like you're making it superior. And that's what I've, what I've noticed with N and B's ingredients is that they're taking already very well studied and well backed ingredients. And they're just finding ways to make them more effective, either more bioavailable, uh, minimizing the side effects, looking for metabolites, um,

It's just definitely something that I really respect about NNB. - Yeah, what I love about it is, you know, going back to the hydroberberine, we'll find out what an ingredient converts to in the body and we'll make that. We'll find out what the active is or what the active constituents are in an herb, you know, like rhodiola, we found out that the active constituent was salidricides and we'll just make pure salidricides.

You know, we'll increase the concentration of something. We'll find out what something converts to in the body. And essentially what we're doing at NMB is we're lowering the dosage of popular ingredients and increasing the potency and maximizing the human effect of ingredients. That's something that we've specialized in that we do really, really well. Switching gears, Dustin, I mean, let's sort of explore the electrolytes market. I mean, that's...

It's a huge industry. I mean, I know you're saying energy drinks are like they're even more they dominate the market more so than like supplements. I think you said. Yeah, energy drinks. So energy is the number one need state. But in terms of revenue, many people are surprised that hydration is right up there with energy because they forget that. OK, yeah, there's element and tea energy.

And then there's, you know, liquid IV, but Gatorade and Powerade, right, and Body Armor are part of the hydration market. So hydration is getting to be as big as energy these days. What do you have to say about the Electro Prime that NNB offers? I mean...

First of all, to put forward an electrolyte, is it a combination of different electrolytes? It's a combination of electrolytes. So it's a two to one ratio of electrolytes, a standard set by the World Health Organization. So we tell customers you can use as much or as little of it as you want. You know, like, for example, a 12 gram dose of it begins...

because it also has some carbohydrates and some glycerol in there. 12 gram dose usually delivers somewhere around like five, 600 milligrams of sodium, 300 milligrams of potassium. Then there's a magnesium and calcium in there as well. - I think a lot of the market is also hyper-focused on, like they overlook the benefits of sodium and they're hyper-focused on potassium. Have you noticed that to be? - Yeah, and I don't even think it's so much

You know, customers, when it comes to hydration, sort of do what they're told. I don't think they're as aware of what ratios they should be looking for and what they should be doing. And yes, you know, our daily requirement for potassium is twice that of sodium. So that sort of makes sense. The only problem I have is, is that it's a cheat code.

in that it's easier to flavor a hydration product when it's low in sodium and high in potassium. So people have to be careful. Like if you look at some of your favorite and you look at some of the most popular hydration drinks out there that are high in potassium, that's great, don't get me wrong. The high potassium thing, I think coconut water helped make that popular because coconut water is naturally high in potassium, but also it is much, much easier to flavor. And the importance of sodium in maintaining fluid balance is being forgotten.

and sodium has, and rightfully so, caught a bad rap when it came to processed food and canned goods. So you had a lot of people moving away from sodium.

But then for those of us who eat super clean and super healthy, one thing that I learned from the CrossFit brand I worked for, Kelly Starrett was sort of like the guru of CrossFit when it came to recovery, mobilization, nutrition. We worked with him on a couple of products in the CrossFit brand that I was working for, and I actually formulated a hydration product with Kelly Starrett for this brand. And one of his big things was –

the lack of sodium in the diets of high performance athletes. And, you know, you've seen that sort of change. You know, you've got some of these like power lifters and strongman competitors who are like licking salt blocks and stuff like that. You see pink Himalayan salt coming back, not just for the grocery store section to put on your steak, but people just, you know, power lifters and high intensity athletes just adding it to their diet.

And so, yes, sodium shouldn't be forgotten. But even more so, you know, you bring up our ElectroPrime. I think it's more of just the concept of our ElectroPrime because it's not even that we're selling ElectroPrime standalone to a lot of people just as is. A lot of people are using some form of ElectroPrime in our products.

And what do I mean by that? So what's happening is we know that we need the presence of carbohydrates for adequate fluid retention and to drawing fluid to our cells. Liquid IV brought that back to the market where they brought cane sugar, bracken to electrolyte products.

It presented a new gold standard for hydration for people. You have brands competing against liquid IV saying, oh, liquid IV isn't healthy because it has sugar in there. And they're trying to go sugar free, but they're not telling their customers that the sugar is a big reason for improving the hydration status quickly of the user.

And so what we've done is that we've lowered the idea of using sugar with this ElectroPrime product, but in place of using glycerol. Glycerol can cause hyperhydration. It can cause greater fluid retention. It can cause greater fluid retention over time.

And, you know, Derek, the owner of Gorilla Mind, you know, who's a very popular figure in this space, he has sort of brought back the popularity of glycerol and glycerol monostearate for the purposes of properly hydrating the cell, fluid retention, maintaining performance, reducing fluid loss, adequate hydration.

And his brand actually uses our hydration, our glycerol, because our glycerol powder, which is a form that he sells it in as a standalone in his pre-workout,

and it's called a Hydro Prime. And the reason he uses it is because it draws water to the cell, which is great, but it also draws water in any situation. So glycerol stopped being used in a lot of pre-workouts because even though it caused a great pump, it was turning powdered products into a complete rock, a solid rock within months of being produced because it would draw water to the powder and it would cause it to clump.

So with us, we have a polymer technology. We use this polymer technology on our AlphaGPC, our Genius Pure, to make it non-hygroscopic. We also use it on our HydroPrime to make a non-hygroscopic 65% concentration glycerol. And because we're able to make it non-hygroscopic, it can be used in powder formulas. Why is that important? Well, hydration has become really popular in stick packs.

you can't use glycerol in a stick pack because it'll turn to glue in the machine tooling when companies try to fill the packets. So ElectroPrime, or even just the concept of using our glycerol, the HydroPrime that goes inside the ElectroPrime, just the concept of using that with electrolytes is huge because we have in-house preclinical research that shows that

us reducing our sugars back to just like five or six grams per serving and using ElectroPrime in comparison to liquid IV and other popular hydration products, a substantial increase in osmotic pressure. Osmotic pressure meaning the pressure required to drive fluid to the cells, substantial increase in osmotic pressure over liquid IV over other competitors when it comes to properly hydrating the cell. So

So you can beat liquid IV using less sugar with the use of this glycerol that really you can't use another form of glycerol because it'll turn your stick pack to glue. And so, you know, Gorilla recognized the importance of this in their products, which is why you'll find it in their products. You'll find it in their standalone glycerol. And I think it's going to provide a resurgence to adequate hydration,

but without the presence of sugar, which is what some of these brands are trying to preach to their customers by saying, don't use liquid IV. But they're doing it in the wrong way because they're not providing an alternative. They're just going sugar free. And when people ask me, I'm like, no, that's not a good alternative. Liquid IV is still better. And now with the use of using glycerol with hydration, now you can have a real gold standard without the presence of sugar.

You raised a great point about the glycerol, the hydro prime being a unique way for consumers to actually experience what it's like to get that hyperhydration effect where oftentimes they're looking for pre-workouts that contain nitric oxide donors, like they're hyper-focused on agmatine, arginine, citrulline, betaine, all these things that increase blood flow.

For the purposes of literally just trying to chase an amazing pump in the gym. And now we're seeing that this hydro prime, this type of glycerol could be a unique way to actually experience glycerol

you'll probably get a pump a lot quicker during your workout. - Yeah, and that's what actually what I like about the Gorilla Mind pre-workout is in my personal opinion, the fullness that is reached by hyper-hydrating the cell, the pump that is reached is superior to just using a nitric oxide ingredient alone. So the fact that they combine the nitric oxide ingredients with the glycerol to me is like the ultimate standard when it comes to pumps and performance

Because you can only improve the blood flow to an area so much, right? It's like, okay, you've improved the blood flow to the area, you got the pump. But now we're talking about actually improving the muscle volume beyond just the blood flow. So 100%, the pumps that you get with glycerol are far superior to nitric oxide ingredient alone for sure.

And then it's also like, I mean, in order for people to achieve an amazing pump in the gym, they need the carbohydrates, but they don't need the carbohydrates converted into glucose in the blood. They need it in the muscle. And that's where ingredients like dihydroberberine and these other GDAs can help to facilitate, like I would say faster replenishment of glycogen stores.

Yeah, I love, you know, despite all that we talk about with the hydroberberine, with GLP-1 and blood sugar management, one of the real realities is, yeah, it's storage, you know, getting, it's the nutrient partitioning effect. Yeah. Properly storing the carbohydrates through the management of blood sugar and absorption. Yeah.

And another interesting one, you know, we have a mitoburn ingredient, which is BEBA, historically used for, you know, replicating the signal sent by exercise so it can amplify the calorie burning effects of exercise. We actually recently did a preclinical rat model study where we found that continuous use of mitoburn over time was also helping to manage weight by increasing the amount of glycogen that could be stored. Right.

And that's crazy to me because I'm like, I need to dig into that one myself because I'm like, isn't the space finite? But, you know, in these rat model studies, because it could increase, you know, we were just talking about hyperhydration earlier, right? The idea that you could increase fluid in the cell and retain it. Now with mitoburn, we're talking about

this super glycogen storage where you could maximize the storage of glycogen. And then from a performance standpoint, more glycogen available from a weight management standpoint. Well, if we're able to store more glycogen, that's less carbohydrates stored as fat from a calorie standpoint. So that also has some interesting implications in my book.

Speaking of a different like product category area, which is like the weight management, I mean, you have seen all the different fat loss ingredients evolve over time. We've looked at things like Garcinia Cambogia, Raspberry Ketones. I mean, your Himbean, you've got caffeine, you've got Senefrin. There's so many different like fat loss ingredients out there. But what would you say are like, I would say...

What would you say are like the common ingredients now that you think actually deserve some merit in terms of their efficacy? Efficacy in terms of weight management? Yeah.

anything that helps you control calories or anything that can help you amplify caloric expenditure. So my big issue with weight management ingredients historically, I mean me just coming into this industry, you know, as a baby in this industry, everything I heard was CLA this, CLA that, you know, for anybody who's been around long enough, who's been in the industry for 15 plus years, you remember the tunnel and CLA days. And my issue was, is coming from a strength and conditioning background, looking into the research,

I'm like, you know, how is it that everybody's buying this one month supply of CLA for the purposes of weight management? But then you look at all the research, it's people who are obese over the course of 12 to 16 weeks. How can you promise results to people in a one month supply of a bottle if everything is 12 to 16 weeks of research?

So I took issue with that. And then, you know, you mentioned all these other weight management ingredients that are out there that are relying on mechanism of action. And then you have some other good ones out there that have come out. You know, um, I've seen like the Rose fit and the, the slim Vance, um, you know, these, uh, herbal blends Rose fit is not an herbal blend. It's just the, the Rosa multiflora. And then like the slim Vance is like an herbal blend and GNC used it in their product. Uh,

They also have it under another brand name of Slendacore. And the research for these is great, don't get me wrong. But even though the research is great, it's still 12 plus weeks overweight to obese individuals. And for those who are not obese at that level, or for those who are looking for results within a couple of bottles versus three to four months,

I don't think that it's apples to apples, right? So don't want to detract from those ingredients. I think that they're great ingredients. I just think that the brand marketers who leverage those ingredients to sort of put that into perspective for the customers and find the right customers for those ingredients. For those who are fairly more fit and who are looking for an edge, my two cents is focus on the laws of thermodynamics, calories in, calories out, you know?

And when it comes to that, I think the ingredients that support that, and we've spoken about some of those ingredients, something to control appetite,

I think any appetite control supplements that are out there would work really well. Dihydroberberine included as an appetite control supplement. And then, of course, something to support thermogenesis and calorie burning. One of my personal favorites for a long time, loved the group over at Omni Active with their calorie burn, with their pepper extract there, proven to increase caloric expenditure,

you know, up to 100 calories. But then also we have research on our calorie burn, which is a grains of paradise ingredient because it contains all the different paradols and all the different constituents within that extract. We're also finding it's burning calories up to 100 calories at a time.

And then, you know, Mito burn I mentioned earlier, having a thermogenic effect, mimicking some of the signaling when it comes to exercise. You know, in my opinion, you should always never when it comes to the weight management, never start with the supplement first and foremost. Yeah. Start with how many more calories can I burn? Hmm.

How many less calories can I take in? And then how sustainable is this? And how healthy does this look? No, does the diet look healthy? Is the level of activity sustainable? How does that look?

And then once you get there and you get something that's manageable and you get to a place that's healthy, then you maximize the effects by supporting the appetite control and then supporting the caloric expenditure. And that's where the mito burns and the calorie burns come into play. That's where the dehydro berberine for the appetite control comes into play. And I think that is more effective for weight management because weight management, you've got to really play the long game, in my opinion. Um,

And I know America is a convenience, quick fix country. I know that doesn't sound good. I know that people are looking for the faster alternative. But the reality is that if you at least have the mindset of playing the long game, your expectations when it comes to supplements will be a lot better.

you know, and as long as you don't see them as a quick fix and as long as you're properly incorporating them into a regimen that is already leading to a caloric deficit, I think you'll be in a good spot. And the supplements will help to manage the caloric deficit and the supplements will help to make the caloric deficit tolerable, right? We've even seen in our human clinicals with mitoburn that it increases appetite control as well. So it'll make the whole situation much more tolerable.

And also as part of that is like, yeah, taking these compounds to modulate appetite, to reduce intake, but then it's also like potentiating the calorie burn during exercise. You're like amplifying. So it's like,

Take one subject who exercises on a treadmill, does like 20 minute run versus who has no supplements, no ingredients prior. Then you take someone who has like caffeine with albaba, like all these other ingredients that amplify calorie burn. Then the net result is that those two individuals, one guy got a better nutrition

like we'll see better results from from that training yeah because they're actually you know burning more during that particular workout with the help of these ingredients but i do respect the fact that you know you're you're basically going back to the laws of thermodynamics which no one can really argue against and it's very it's just very like scientific it's not being like oh we have this shortcut tricky secret way to drop body fat like you're not being like that which i i

i do respect and i hope my audience you know they can understand that as well um yeah yeah i mean don't get me wrong the hydro berberine is a very potent and very effective ingredient especially when using 200 milligrams a day and your ability to drop calories with that type of appetite control and blood sugar control is substantial because i've seen some people use the hydro berberine and blood sugar lack of blood sugar control is unfortunate

your hunger will cause you to think that you are matching your calories to your body's needs. But the reality is, is that lack of blood sugar control can lead to levels of hunger that cause you to regularly overconsume. And so even though I don't want to put in people's minds that supplements are a quick fix,

Of all the supplements out there, the dramatic shift in metabolic health that dihydroberberine has caused on occasion has caused rapid results for people because their metabolic function was so messed up. And so take an example of somebody who wants to lose weight and they're unknowingly over consuming calories by like 300, 400 calories a day.

that metabolic shift to controlling blood sugar can bring them closer to normal. And then if they want to have a caloric deficit, it can help them to create a caloric deficit. Because the other issue is that with a lack of metabolic control, you're finding people do have a harder time with fasting, right? Because their blood sugar is out of whack. If you have healthy blood sugar levels, fasting after a couple of days isn't that bad. Yeah.

If your blood sugar levels are unhealthy, sure, fasting can help to correct those blood sugar levels, but it is an extremely painful experience for people who have lack of blood sugar control. And then if you go back to what I mentioned earlier about how many people have a lack of blood sugar control,

Not eating is an extremely painful experience for a lot of people. So if caloric deficit is the goal and you're using something like the hydroberberine that goes beyond just appetite control, we're talking about improving metabolic health. Sure, I don't want it to be a quick fix, but the effects for some people are very, very dramatic. So Dustin, I guess now that we sort of wrap up towards the end of the podcast, I'd love to sort of hear about what's on the horizon for

for yourself in terms of where would you like to see the company, I guess, like move in what sort of direction in the next like three to five years? - Yeah, I think the direction that I see the company moving in is sort of further, is blurring the lines, maybe not even blurring the lines because I don't wanna say anything that'll get me in trouble with the FTC as in regards to supplements. So I'll just say this, I see NNB stretching

the possibilities of what supplements can do for people. Supplements today are herbal extracts, you know, that can support and help a healthy diet and it'll never leave that realm. But NNB is producing concentrations and potencies of your tried and true supplements to levels that the industry has not seen before. And so the future of NNB to me is changing

the face and changing the level of what supplements can do for people. You know, what's what you felt like supplements could do for you yesterday. Well, when N and B is causing a 20 times increase in berberine in the blood and causing drastic increases in GOP one, well, guess what? What supplements from N and B will be able to do for you tomorrow will, uh,

blow your mind compared to where supplements are today with what we're doing with bioavailability and potency. Incredible.

Well, that wraps up today's podcast, Dustin. It was an absolute pleasure having you on. Thank you for having me. And that will be for those listening in. If you do want to check out some of the amazing ingredients that Dustin has mentioned, be sure to leave those linked in the podcast show notes. And as always, guys, if you did enjoy the episode, please do leave a five-star review. That really does help to push it up there. So thanks everyone for tuning in. I look forward to seeing you in the next episode.

From mindless tasks to industrial-grade AI to ease of mind. Supercharge your transformation with industrial AI. Transform the everyday with Siemens.

If you're a facilities manager at a university, you know students rely on the cafeteria for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and the occasional late night snack. So when a dishwasher breaks down and dirty plates pile up, the mess hall can turn messy in the blink of an eye. Enter Grainger. With over a million industrial grade products and fast delivery, the product you need now is never far away. So you can turn that dishwasher back into a lean, clean washing machine. Call.

Click ranger.com or just stop by. Ranger, for the ones who get it done. My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend.

My friend's still laughing at me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com slash results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn, the place to be, to be.