57. Regulating Stress & Boosting Metabolism Via The Ray Peat Philosophy. An Expert Chat WIth Danny Roddy
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Hey everyone and welcome to the Boost Your Biology podcast. My name is Lucas and I am the founder of Ergogenic Health. Together in this podcast series, we will go underground to explore cutting edge health and human performance insights that you simply cannot search on Google to help you upgrade your existence. So without any further ado, let's jump into today's episode.

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Boost Your Biology podcast. Today's special guest is regarded as a thought leader, independent researcher, a metabolic expert, hair loss and anti-aging expert as well. And has actually, you know, has an outstanding perspective on stress and its deleterious effects on the body.

He authored the bestselling book, Hair Like a Fox, a bioenergetic view of patent hair loss in 2013. And joining me on the show today is the one and only Danny Roddy. I will never, ever live up to that intro, but I appreciate it. Thank you so much, Lucas. Good to be here. Yeah, we've been, I mean, like I was just chatting to Danny before the show, like we have

A bit of a long history. I mean, I actually first saw Danny's content probably, I don't know, maybe four or five years ago as I stumbled across, you know, the Ray Peet forum and just fell in love with like a lot of the principles and then just, yeah. And then I saw your work, man. So...

I really appreciate it. I mean, a lot of it was motivated. Like I used to be in like a paleosphere and I remember kind of coming upon Ray's work and, and bouncing it off people like Dr. Kurt Harris was very popular at the time, Rob Wolf, Chris Kresser, and then kind of all uniformly saying that he was not only a quack, but he was just completely wrong about everything. You know, they wouldn't even entertain his ideas and,

and there's something about Ray that is just like a this powerful logical force you know and and he's so attractive as this humble dedicated like scientist type and so I don't know I found that extremely compelling after a long period of time and then of course we can get into it but of course like my own relationship with stress I was like clearly that's been a problem my entire life you know and and this guy is talking about it as the

as one of the main drivers of disease. And so that just... That was extremely compelling to me. So maybe for my listeners now, we're talking about this mysterious Ray Peet. So like, I'm going to let them know who is Dr. Ray Peet. Yeah, I don't even know if I'm the one to summarize that. I don't know. He's, I think, 85 this year. Biologist, philosopher. Just really incredible person, you know? And I think...

I think when you interact with his work, it will change you or make you see things that you didn't necessarily see before. And so...

I don't know. I, sometimes I joke, I say I'm like the apprentice that he never wanted, you know? But like, I don't know. I, it makes me sound dogmatic or something, but like, and how can you have anything but tons of respect for somebody that's like changed your life in such a, such a positive way, you know? And so I'm just endlessly fascinated with him as an individual and then his work. I don't think people understand like how grand his like scope of his work is. Like he has,

newsletters going back to the 70s, you know, and he's been incredibly consistent with writing new material. And I'm sure you're subscribed to his newsletter, but he'll be releasing these bi-monthly newsletters on topics that I really have never even seen explored in the health sphere. So he's like putting together new things at age 85, you know, like I'm struggling to keep up with my workload at 35 and he's 50 years older than me and he's just really has it together. And so, yeah.

So again, I, and I'm not alone, you know, I think people, I think people, the immediate knee jerk reaction is he's crazy and his work is it's nuts, you know, but I, I've seen it so many times that people say that and then they like trickle into the kind of bioenergetic perspective or whatever you want to call it. And they get consumed by it. I think. Yeah, it's, it's, it's crazy. Just like now we're seeing more and more people take on board a lot of the, you know, approaches that Ray Pete has around health and,

So Danny, maybe you want to give my listeners a bit of a background about your story and how you got into all this. Yeah, I'll give you the condensed version. So I used to be in a band and we had kind of a motto of like fake it till you make it. And all the guys in the band were extremely dedicated. We used to flyer and add people on MySpace and things like that. And our goal was always to sign to a major label.

And I didn't really have the words to articulate it at the time, but like when we would go play shows, my arms would stiffen up and I played the bass and I literally could not play my instrument. And so I just, I had a really terrible response to kind of like above average stress. You know, I was terrible talking to girls too. So that was like another sign. I always be real shy and nervous.

But I mean, even going before that, like in school, even if I knew the material, I'd go and like fail the test. And like my stress response was just so terrible to that kind of thing. So anyways, so I think I have a bunch of symptoms too, like low libido during this band time, hair loss, feeling bad, very negative, like always wanting to argue with people. And so...

Let me try to tell this story correctly. So my problems really hit ahead on like a second European tour. So we self-fund a tour to go to Europe to start playing shows.

And so I'm feeling worse at that time. And miraculously, our plan of faking it till you make it actually works. And an Island Def Jam executive hears our song that was played on the radio by Bruce Dickinson, who is like in Iron Maiden. I don't know what status is. Anyways, Island signs us and then the stress gets even worse, you know.

And so, okay, so I identified this problem with stress and I'm trying to think of how to solve it. And I start going from diet to diet to diet because I had watched that movie, Supersize Me. I forgot when it came out, like maybe 2003 or 2004 or something. But in that movie, the guy ate fast food for a long time and he just felt terrible and had a bunch of problems.

So anyways, I go from vegetarianism to veganism to veganism for like two years, then to low carb and maybe like 2006, 2007. And then when I hear about zero carb, the meat and water style diet that Sean Baker is a big proponent of now, I get on that and somewhere around 2007, 2008, and then do that for like two years, totally hit a wall. I feel worse than I've ever felt in my entire life in like 2008.

uh probably between 2010 2011 you know and i and i start including starches in my diet uh and then i find ray pete probably beginning of 2012 like late 2011 and then that's the story of it and just trying to figure out what he's saying and what his ideas are and uh it still learning every day uh

Until now, you know? Yeah. Yeah, it's phenomenal just to hear the back. I've never heard the full story, Danny. That's not even the full story. That's like a majorly condensed version. Yeah, it's crazy just to think...

I'm glad that you've sort of touched on the range of diets that you experimented with. I'd love to start there around the diet aspects because I know Dr. Raypeat has some key principles in terms of dietary patterns and modalities, things like that. So yeah, do you want to talk about more how that escalated?

Oh, sure. So yeah, so I was always looking for like a paradigm that kind of made sense. And I think the vegetarian, vegetarianism is one of the easiest because it's like a very mainstream dominant point of view to get healthy, you know, so that was just the immediate thing that I did. And then I heard about veganism. Okay, it's even better than vegetarianism.

and I sound like like 165 right now I'm like 511 I shrunk down to like 120 pounds on veganism like I was so so small and my family wanted to have like an intervention for me because I was so sickly and just uh you you could have like punched me and I would have like broken a bone or something I was I was so ridiculously weak and so anyways um

So that whole modality is like don't eat animals. And the health part is like this ad hoc edition after that like pseudo philosophical view of not eating animals. As I didn't, I'm not saying I thought this at the time, but in retrospect, like that's not a very compelling hypothesis, you know?

And then you get into things like low carb, which is getting more into the physiology. Oh, you don't want to raise insulin. Sugar is the worst thing to burn. You want to be a fat burning beast. And to me at the time, at least, that was a very compelling narrative story.

And then zero carb is even better. You're getting rid of all these toxic plants and things like that. You know, I'm using air clothes for the toxic. And that's even better than the low carb. And you know, a lot of people don't actually find success with low carb. And so of course, zero carb must be better. And you know, I can stick to literally any, at least at the time, I could literally stick to any diet for years. It was just the idea of like finding the holy grail of diets and then sticking to it. And

And then Paul Jaminet came out with like the perfect health diet and he was a big proponent of starches. And so after my zero carb failure, I started including starches. Anyways, I think through that whole process and then landing on the Ray stuff, it was

it was like, okay, it's like, is diet really the most essential aspect to be modifying to improve health? And I started to just like grow more and more weary of that over time, you know, and especially since like we haven't really gotten into it, but like hypothyroidism, I think I was hypothyroid since I was a little kid. And like, I look back at photos of myself and I'm like, just obviously hypothyroid. And yeah,

And so I think when you're faced with kind of this terrible environment that all of us inhabit, I don't know, you're in Australia, I know, I don't know, you might be living on some farm somewhere in a great situation, but I think most people are in kind of a dire situation of the environment being at odds with their health. And that's not even to take into account the things that happened to them when they were born and the medications and things like that. They were, like, I took albuterol for asthma, like, for like a decade when I was a younger kid. Yeah.

And so what I'm trying to say is I think a lot of health problems require more inventive thinking than eat meat or don't eat animals. You know, I just think those are like paltry and not adequate for addressing health problems. And so that's where Ray comes in. And that's why I appreciate him so much because I think the work he's put together is this expansive big toolbox. And then based on vital signs like your pulse and temperature in various lab work like high cholesterol or

Prolactin or vitamin D or et cetera, et cetera. A person could take that info and then try to actually get somewhere by taking that data and hopefully, we haven't talked about it yet, but increasing the metabolic rate and hopefully feeling better a la Broda Barnes. It's phenomenal. I remember when I looked at

Ray Pete's work early on and how he was really emphasizing optimal thyroid function. And like, I got so obsessed with optimizing my thyroid that I got like three blood tests in like one month just to assess my thyroid. And at the end, I'm like,

Yes, I've like optimized my thyroid. T3 was super high. My T4 was moderate. TSH was like 0.8 or whatever. But let's talk about that. Let's talk about, you know, your experience with hypothyroidism.

yeah yeah so so so the thing i kind of neglected and left out is through all of those dietary adventures that i went on some were well basically all of them especially veganism and then the second year of carnivore my body temperature just decreased so noticeably you know and so i've said this a bunch of times but like i used to work at apple retail and the store was because it's a bunch of electronics it's kept pretty cold

And the girls in the store would be working wearing like a t-shirt and I'd be wearing like three sweatshirts, you know, I'd be so cold. And it wasn't just my hands and feet. It was like my genitals and my nose and my ears were cold. So it was like, I remember telling somebody that a close friend that worked there, I was like, my genitals are cold. And he's like, what in the hell are you talking about? He was like, so weirded out that that was something I noticed about my body, you know.

And so, so what I'm trying to say is that, but that low core temperature and what I would later find out also extremely low pulse rate, those were like, in addition to other things like the hair loss and mood and libido and things, those were all always like my primary symptoms that I was always monitoring and digestion.

I think all those things were related. And so I think when the metabolism or your thyroid function is suppressed, it kind of like sets a person into a state of pseudo-hibernation, a la that serotonin video made about the carnivore stuff. And that just feels bad.

that's like at odds with a joyous life. You know what I mean? To be in this pseudo hibernation state dominated by stress hormones that rise when your thyroid is low. And so anyways, so when I started listening to Ray and he was talking about the body temperature as this like very important thing, I was like, oh my God, maybe this guy gets it, you know, because I had talked to so many health people that never ever mentioned it or thought that low was better. Right.

And I just knew inherently that I can confidently say that a low body temperature is not a good thing, an enjoyable thing. And all my symptoms were the absolute worst when I felt the coldest.

That's, it's crazy. I mean, like, and it's often the symptom that's kind of neglected by a lot of people when they do like, you know, a range of blood tests, things like that. They forget, you know, that morning, that morning temperature, how crucial that is. And I think I heard you talk with Georgie about first thing in the morning, not drinking too much water or something. Water,

Talk more about that. So that goes for personal experience. And so that sounds kind of nutty. So when I was like zero carb and my, so I think I was severely hypothyroid during this time. And I started to look really different. Like my, like I would just fill out. I was just puffy, you know, all over my body.

And when I would get labs during that time, my prolactin level would be very high. So that's like a pituitary hormone that is sensitive to, you can probably explain this better than I can, but like the amount of sodium and calcium outside the cell and the magnesium and potassium are supposed to be inside the cell. And I think when sodium and calcium like too much enter the cell and the blood becomes more like hypotonic or lacking sodium that can turn on prolactin. And then prolactin is like an emergency hormone

that can interfere with androgen production, but it can also just suppress the thyroid function. Anyways, I think drinking too much water is kind of a trigger for this prolactin hormone to be released. And so what I'm trying to say is when I was zero carb, I would have like one meal a day in the evening and I'd eat my meat and then I'd drink water and I'd feel even colder after I drank the water than before.

them before you know and so so against doing this every day for two years there was a pattern that was emerged you know the the coldness of the body temperature and then maybe tmi but the girl i was dating at the time i knew from experience that if i just drank less water her and i would be like be able to be intimate and if i didn't if i drank too much water i can't kind of have like ed you

And so again, don't ask me how I figured these things out, but that was just like kind of obvious to me. So my hypothesis is just that I was so low thyroid. I probably had high prolactin. I mean, that's confirmed by lab tests I had at the time. It was like hovered around 13 or 12.

And then I think just drinking water wasn't doing me any favor. So a normal metabolic person, if those people exist these days, like they might be able to get away with water totally fine. I'm just trying to say like my metabolic rate was so low and my prolactin was probably so high that I think in that situation, drinking water might be kind of a liability. Yeah. I heard, I also heard Georgie talk about, yeah,

insufficient amount of sodium will impair that cert enzyme so you're going to get excess serotonin from not enough salt i do you could probably explain that better than i could but there is a reference i have saying like sodium restriction increases uh serotonergic system in man so maybe it's like the car the sodium stimulates the production of carbon dioxide and then carbon dioxide is helping the platelets and the muscles retain their carbon dioxide but um

Yeah, like I think Ray has a whole article, salt, salt, like energy and aging or something, just talking about how critical that is. And then the thing we didn't really talk about, but like, I think thyroid is like regulating that balance of minerals inside and ions inside and outside the cell. And so if a person has a low temperature impulse, they're probably just always, you

they're probably always going to have problems balancing those minerals like the potassium, calcium, sodium, and magnesium. Yeah. Let's take a broader perspective now. Like I know we've spoken about thyroid function and sort of how that seems to be a key regulator of all the other downstream hormones. So maybe do you want to talk about, yeah, maybe like discuss, you know, how thyroid is linked and is considered like a protective hormone.

Yeah. So the way I understand it is it's like a cofact. It's like a, a stimulates cellular respiration. So the production of taking carbs, fats and proteins and reducing them down to electrons and passing them through the cell and making water, uh,

carbon dioxide and ATP. But I think it's the other part is that it's stimulating steroidogenesis and the turnover of cholesterol, I think specifically LDL, into pregnenolone, progesterone, and DHEA. So this is like... And so it has two of these like pivotal functions. And then...

And then I think when either of those things get interfered with, that's when a person starts accumulating stress over a lifetime and that leading to kind of imperfect repair and kind of these diseases of civilization we're always talking about. And so...

So again, we haven't talked about you, but I think there's lots of different things in the environment that are impairing the thyroid function. So I think it's very probable that by the time a person's 20 or 30 or even older, they probably accumulated so much stress and they're having so many signals sent to their body to turn down the rate of metabolism. Kind of like...

Like if you, to go longer on less, like it's a, your body is sensing a bad situation. So let's lower the metabolic rate to get through the bad situation. And they never get signals to turn back on their thyroid function. So they're conserving their tissue, but at a great expense. And so besides, go ahead.

Yeah, I was going to say some of those environmental... We can touch on some of those environmental factors that may be hindering thyroid function. Do you want to explore some of those? Yeah. So they're probably extremely vast. You know, like even a person's familial environment, what their parents ate, their grandparents ate, etc., etc. The one Ray is kind of famous for is the polyunsaturated fats, you know, and so...

Those being the precursor to prostaglandins, which are these hormone-like modulators of respiration and hormone production and things like that. So this is controversial because Ray is saying these are like executors of inflammation. They're exclusively bad, but a lot of people think that some of them are good. So I realize how complicated all this is.

Then their substrate for like lipid proxidation, which again, you could speak more intelligently about than I could, but like really harming the mitochondria. Like nobody thinks lipid proxidation is good stuff, but these like double bonded fatty acids are very susceptible to what is it getting their hydrogens taken from like a free radical attack and causing lots of stealing the oxygen in the process and

Basically causing like your cells to become hypoxic, you know, so PUFA. And then the other thing Ray says, and I've yet to see these papers, but he says he talks about these French papers that showed that the production activation, I'm sorry, the production transport and activation of thyroid is inhibited in proportion to the double bond. And so I have some papers that say similar things, but they're a little over my head.

But I think that's the basic argument that we were talking about cellular respiration and the production of steroids. And PUFA is kind of like the antithesis of that. Like it interferes with multiple points of producing the protective steroids that oppose cortisol and estrogen and aldosterone. And also in interfering with the cellular respiration process, which is how we make energy and reinforce our structure and things like that.

Yeah, yeah. So to put it simply for my audience, I'll try and break it down because we could have fun. It's funny because you're like, oh, you probably know more than me, but I'm looking at you thinking, you know more than me, man. But with these poofers that Ray P talks about,

We're referring to like canola oil, sunflower oil, safflower oil. These are having a negative effect on thyroid hormone function, right? Yeah. So there's a paper, it says from 1909, I think to 1999, soybean oil has increased a thousand percent. And so again, this is becoming way less controversial these days with

A lot of people adopting the seed oils are the biggest problem, you know. But I think what Ray brings to the table is this kind of energy perspective and the pulse and temperature and the thyroid. I think a lot of people have concluded that the seeds are bad.

but it's because they're like ancestrally inconsistent or something. And so that's kind of the most interesting part of the whole diet space to me is these different paradigms and how they interact with each other. And I'm just most convinced of the bioenergetic paradigm or Ray's thesis, energy and structure are interdependent at every level. And I think another way of saying that is...

that run a raise influences is Albert chain, Georgie. And he said the cell needs energy for all of its functions day to day, but it also needs enough to maintain its structure. And so the way I simply think about that is like the cell produces energy to reforce. It's like cytoskeleton and then cells make tissues and tissues make organs and organs make us. So, so when you want to like approach a health problem, I think you gotta, you really gotta start trying to understand what, what the cell is doing. And then if you don't understand that you,

probably are going to go adrift into all these weirdo ideas. Yeah. Let's sort of, Danny, let's sort of transition and discuss a little bit on hair loss because I know you were well known in the early days for like your...

analyzing, you know, different causes. What are the main drivers? Estrogen, parathyroid hormone, prolactin, cortisol. Do you want to expand upon that? How has your view changed? Yeah, no, it's funny because everything we've talked about is completely relevant to the person experiencing hair loss. And so,

There's a paper I have, I think it's in 1996, and they say baldness is such a prevalent disease, they call it, that maybe normal people are in early phases of experiencing baldness. So the person with a perfect head of hair is in like an early phase of experiencing baldness because I think it's so prevalent. Like if a man or a woman lives long enough, they're going to experience some degree of so-called male pattern baldness.

And so I don't know if you want to get into the whole thing. I guess I was always just suspicious of the idea that baldness was just like genes and DHT, like a person, like the typical, I mean, even though there's no specific look to baldness, like when I'd walk down the street in San Francisco or something,

Like it doesn't stand out as some amazing health feature when combined with kind of the whole picture, like the person might be overweight or something, or they look like they're in advanced stages of aging in general. And so I was like, why would you just invoke genetics and DHT for this one specific problem? And also DHT is this masculinizing hormone. So men are supposed to be getting more like masculine as they age. Like this, none of this makes any sense, you know?

And then also I neglected to say that I had gone on finasteride and I experienced side effects pretty quickly. You know, like my ejaculate was like super watery. I think my disposition and mood was even worse than it normally was. And so I was like, clearly that's not the way forward. And then,

Again, this is a super long story, but there was a gentleman on a regrowth.com forum, so that used to be a huge hair loss forum. And he was saying, hey, this story about DHT and genetics is wrong. There are other hormones involved in like estrogen and prolactin and things. And I was like, just inherently, for some reason, I have no idea why, it kind of made sense. And

And so long story short, I was thinking about those hormones for a long time and then enter Ray P. And I think he was the first person to kind of paint this picture of why those hormones increase, why they decrease and why they just generally, I think, increase during the aging process. And I think if you want to get really granular with it, and again, you probably could speak more intelligently about this than I could, but I think it's like a precursor to heart disease.

It's like a marker for heart disease. And I think that's probably at this very moment, June 7th, 2021, that's like the easiest way for me to think about it. The arteries hardening over time, like starting with edema, then fibrosis and then calcification and that being like a general process that a lot of tissues are experiencing.

And there's like a few good studies about the reduction of blood flow to the scalp. That's probably happening in the brain too. And so...

And again, those hormones that we've been talking about, the cortisol, the estrogen, the prolactin, the aldosterone, the serotonin, those are probably all facilitating the hardening of the arteries, heart disease in general. And yeah, and getting the energy up would probably be a basic strategy to try to stop and possibly reverse those effects. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, there's definitely, there seems to be a lot of hallmarks that contribute to, you know, hair loss and things like that. Have you ever thought about designing like a crazy mind map that links all of these things together? Many times I'll have ideas like that and then I'll start like putting them together and I'll be like, oh, I have two calls in 15 minutes. And then I'll just stop doing it. Like,

I was just talking to somebody and they're like, do you think your creative process is kind of like dimmed during like this whole thing that we're all going through right now? And I, you know, I'd have to say yes. Like it's really kind of put me in survival mode of thinking about the future rather than thinking things are going to be taken care of. You know, I'm thinking, oh man, what if this happens or what if that happens and you can't eat in three months or something? Like that's where my mind is at right now. And so I was actually...

Not long ago, I was working on... Because I've been saying for a long time I was going to write a sequel to that 2012-13 book and really put all of it together. And man, I lost a lot of energy for putting that together. And so I think I put more time into just doing live streams and things at the moment because those are very fun and enjoyable to do. And to be honest, like putting together... That graphic sounds fun that you're talking about, but putting together a book or something sounds...

really difficult because I'm a terrible writer. Yeah. I mean, one thing that came to my mind with the whole hair loss thing is like if it's not necessary for survival, like what's the function of hair? Yeah.

That's a great question. So this is not my idea. Ray first said it, he thought it might be insulation for the brain. And that idea, if you first hear it, maybe it sounds crazy or something. But when he said that, my inclination is always to

go through like the vast literature collection I have, you know, I haven't read every single paper. I have like 8,000 notes or something. I haven't read all those papers, but I'll go in my Evernote and I'll search for like insulation or warmth or hair or whatever. And I did uncover a few articles. One was like a really long time ago saying that basic thing that like everybody knew. I forgot what year it was. It was like in the 20s or something. Everybody knew that hair was insulation for the brain or whatever.

And so that's a very compelling idea to me, you know, because the brain is such a metabolically vigorous, it's the most metabolically vigorous organ. And so is it crazy to think that hair is like an extension of this metabolically vigorous organ that can be greatly harmed when the temperature decreases? Like, I think that's completely reasonable. And there was one paper, I forget the name of it, but it was by PAUS, P-A-U-S,

And he said as much like that the hair was insulation and that it had... It gets really like...

that uh deviations in the temperature of of the hair follicles could change their structure and the the morphogenesis of the actual structure of the hair follicle to change to in order to retain heat and stuff and so it so that that area to me is like completely unexplored just like the general phenomena of baldness and so what we're talking about here is um

really just, I think a lot of people think this stuff is nuts because they'll go try to find all the things we're talking about in the literature. And those papers do exist about prolactin, estrogen, aldosterone, hypertension, arterial stiffness, heart disease. But I think it's really just been touched. Like I think-

So much more research needs to happen in this territory. Yeah, for sure. So I'd love to talk about calcium because you've written some good articles talking about debunking calcification. And specifically, let's look at why increasing calcium intake does not equal more calcification. Yeah, in one of Ray's articles, I think it's called Calcium Hypertension and some other things.

He quotes Adele Davis and she's like an old school nutrition person. And she says something like, it's extremely important to remember that when you have a diet deficient in calcium, that makes soft tissue calcification even worse. And so I guess that's really the basic way to look at it. And,

Ray quotes another guy named David McCarran who did a lot of research along these lines as well. But anyways, long story short, I think when you stop eating calcium, you have a system in your body that's dictated by the parathyroid glands that are like four glands on the back of your thyroid, I think.

And those hormones, those glands, which is like the only gland we have quadruple redundancy of, produce parathyroid hormone. And parathyroid hormone shocks the bones to release calcium. And so if you just don't... You know how sometimes vegans will say, there's never been a documented case of calcium deficiency or something? That's because it's so essential to your well-being that your body will break down your bones in order to liberate it. And so...

The parathyroid hormone, and I think in conjunction with prolactin, they have like a tight relationship. They both modify calcium metabolism. Those break down your bones to liberate calcium into the blood. And I think that pushes too much calcium into the cell. And that can cause this kind of like hyper excitotoxicity in the cell, which is not, it's like the opposite of its relaxed ready state.

And anyways, so eating dietary calcium suppresses parathyroid hormone and prolactin and other hormones. And that is just one way, I think, to improve a health situation. And I wasn't surprised as anybody because I thought calcium was like the most worthless nutrient ever during that whole dietary phase that I told you about. Like I never thought calcium... In fact, in carnivore, I ate like a phosphorus heavy diet for two years without...

I mean, very little calcium during that whole time. There was a period of time when, you know, everyone was talking about magnesium and like smashing some magnesium supplements. My dad's a pharmacist. So like I'd ask for any sort of magnesium supplement I wanted. And then I also went off dairy at the same time and like, hang on a sec.

where am I getting my calcium? Because like a little bit of broccoli here and there, but I wasn't having eggshells or anything. And so I was like, hmm, what would happen if I reintroduced calcium? It was like an algae. Have you seen the sea-based calcium powder? No. It's like a specific coral calcium. And I just reintroduced that and I immediately noticed this like

You'd think excitatory effects, but I got a calming effect. And I'm like, what the hell? That's funny that you say that. That's what they're always saying. It's like excitotoxic. But I think they're confused because it's the parathyroid hormone liberating the calcium from the bone that causes the excitotoxic. So again, this is kind of basic, but it's confused like all the time. In fact, it's...

It's probably really Ray is like one of the only proponents of even talking about this idea, you know, that we have a similar experience. Like I kind of skipped over it, but long story short, I was, I was, even when I got into Ray's stuff, I was still having lots of random health problems and I did have high prolactin and which really interfered with the libido and

And I remember meeting a new girl. This was a long time ago. So like dating apps and stuff didn't exist. And so I met a new girl and I was like, oh man, you can't screw this up. And anyways, I was like, my libido is going to be like a really big problem. I'm positive for the relationship. Anyways, long story short, I supplemented eggshell calcium and...

Like three of my major life problems went away within like a few days because of calcium supplementation. And that was shocking to me because again, I thought it was worthless. I wasn't really sure if Ray was right. He was compelling, of course, but I had never really experienced like kind of the beneficial effects of anything he was talking about. And supplementing calcium was,

Really one of those first like aha moments. And then of course, transitioning to milk and cheese, which I ate a ton of when I was a kid and then just completely stopped when I got all this super intelligent diet information in my brain, which was really setting my health down the tubes. Same here, man. There was a period of time when I was like,

when I was younger playing soccer, I'd always come back after training and I'd have like this full cream milk after training. And I always used to feel so good like that night or the next morning. And then I went through a period of like, I think it was like a three to four year period as I was studying my naturopathy degree, I cut out all dairy and I'm like,

why am I cutting this out? And then I use like BPC-157 to like heal the cut and all these, I fully healed my own gut and I was like, I brought them back in. I was able to tolerate dairy again. I'm like, oh my God, I remember how good milk tastes, you know?

I mean, that was the, I remember being at the ancestral health symposium in 2011 and there was a guy, I think his name was Pedro Bastos and his whole presentation was just how milk was one of the worst foods you could possibly eat. And so it was milk, gluten and sugar like those. And I think they specified maybe seed oils or whatever, but those were like the worst foods you could possibly eat. And so since I found Ray to be so compelling and he was talking in kind of this like

milk is such a safe food type of way. I was just like extremely compelled by that. And you're right. Like what you just said, I really liked drinking milk, but I had just not done it for so long. And so, yeah, man, it would be hard to believe life without cheese and milk at the moment would be very difficult. Yeah. What about like, because people might see some of Ray Pete's work and see that he encourages the use of

you know, he's encouraging carbohydrate intake and sometimes even very large amounts. So do you want to talk about, I guess...

you know what is what's the premise there like is it all about spitting out metabolism or my kind of simple understanding of it is i think when the blood sugar gets too low that's like the kickoff to the stress response in a an adrenaline of being a short-term stress hormone and then cortisol being the long term and of course a bunch of things happen in between then i think the intestine becomes very permeable starts like absorbing endotoxin into the blood uh

And so when I first heard that, I was like, ah, okay, that's why he's talking about carbohydrate because you don't want your blood sugar to get too low. You want your liver glycogen, which is like storing sugar in between meals to be topped up. And you don't want to be susceptible to that adrenaline and cortisol. And again, that made sense to me because...

Like when I worked at Apple retail, people used to like yell in my face when their computer is broken and you'd get like an adrenaline response when they'd be yelling at you. And I, I would probably experience that way more often than a normal person would just because I was probably hypothyroid for a very long time. And so when he was talking about those things, I was like, this, this definitely is starting to make a little bit more sense. I think there's way more extravagant arguments for carbohydrate, but that keeping the blood sugar up, um,

Being this like optimal fuel for carbon dioxide, which we haven't really talked about, but that being this reciprocal process of allowing cells to consume oxygen and sugar and make more carbon dioxide. Like people say it's the waste product of cellular respiration. And I think in this whole bioenergetic or stress or thyroid or repeat approach, it's like the prize of respiration. Like that's the thing that you want. And so...

So anyways, and so the carbohydrate dampening those systems, the hypothalamus pituitary adrenalism to another extent, the intestine that are chronically being activated throughout a person's lifetime and carbohydrate being this like simple answer to dampening the stress response that worsen the quality of life. Yeah. And what I like about what Ray talks about is subconsciously,

supporting the body with the vitamins and minerals and nutrients as well. Because there was a period of time when I saw people talking about high dose vitamin B1. And I personally started playing around. I started experimenting with between 400 to 800 milligrams of just thymine HCL. And I was like, holy moly, my mental clarity is improved so much. Like,

I felt like I was able to focus. My verbal fluency was improved. It was phenomenal. And so that's what I like about Ray P. He encourages things that's going to improve the body's ability to tolerate the carbohydrates as well. A hundred percent. Yeah, no, that's...

That like energy focus, you know, like I think the B1 is part of that pyruvate dehydrogenase complex or whatever that's a critical for energy production. And it probably does a bunch of other stuff that I don't. But like, it's like that grounding in something that's real. You know what I mean? And rather than like, oh, let's do what our ancestors did. It's like, what? Like how...

how non-specific does that, how fast does that become completely unuseful? You know what I mean? And similarly, like how fast is just not eating, say you have a serious disease or something and you're going vegan because you don't want to eat animals or something. It's just like totally bizarre.

And so, I mean, I've said this before, but I think Ray is like 100 years ahead of everybody. And I just think his paradigm, his bioenergetic view is so helpful in developing a toolbox of foods and supplements or whatever to make life better and to mitigate symptoms of a person experiencing bad ones. Yeah. A quick little hack for those listening in. One particular dietary intervention that I've

Kept with me till this day is the raw carrot salad. These can't go wrong. Apple cider vinegar, coconut oil. They're good. That thing has really taken Twitter by storm. It's very popular on Twitter for all these different groups of people. The one thing they have in common is that they're using this carrot salad as...

And so, I mean, it's not surprising, right? It's like digestive stuff is so common, leaning towards constipation or diarrhea or a mixture of those or having bloating after meals, et cetera. And so, again, this is all kind of goes into what you said about B1. It's like...

Try these little things that aren't massively confusing or anything. Try to do baby steps to feeling better. And I think the carrot salad is about the most brainless thing a person could engage in every day to have paid big dividends. Like that could majorly improve. I mean, I know for a fact, like I get email about the carrot salad, that it cures diverticulitis, like serious inflammatory bowel problems. And so...

I think I posted about it today, like using olive oil instead of coconut oil. And the olive oil, I think it has an even better effect than the coconut oil. And so I used to think it was not that important, but now I'm pretty religious about it. I'll do it every single day. Yeah. And there's one other principle that Ray stresses. The whole endotoxin side of things is –

And I see Georgie talking about how LPS is linked to so many different diseases. So what's, you know, what's Ray's stance there? And like, you know, what's your stance on like the whole endotoxin side of things?

Yeah, so gram-negative bacteria that are natural produce endotoxin in the large intestine. And I think when the – there's a paper I have. It's called like hypothyroidism and association with small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. And so it's kind of known that if a person has been hypothyroid for a long time, they'll tend to develop this very common type of bacterial overgrowth in their small intestine. So apparently the small intestine is supposed to be completely sterile. It's not supposed to have any bacteria in it.

and so I think at that point, like if a person has been experiencing chronic stress for a long time, they have a low pulse and temperature they're noticing maybe, uh, maybe intending towards diarrhea more or having really bad gas, uh,

That would be probably an endotoxin problem. You know, their intestine is likely leaky and it's absorbed, endotoxins being absorbed in the blood. And then it's putting, I think, tremendous pressure on your liver to get rid of it. And then, and the liver is like the chemist of the body. And so I think you're really in a bad situation when that starts happening. And,

I'm fairly certain I have a paper, but they're like predicting who's going to die in the hospital based on their level of endotoxin. So I guess it's like one of these primary factors in stress. And I haven't really talked about it yet, but I think it's one of those things that can activate that HPA or the hypothalamus pituitary and adrenals. And like Georgie was saying, there's really nothing

uh bad that it doesn't do like i think it's this like huge complication in the aging process and stress and inflammation that it would probably serve the person to try to take care of you can't get rid of it it's always going to be there but things like the carrot salad

getting the thyroid function up or the mushrooms or whatever. There's like a bunch of different strategies and also eating an easy type digest diet that doesn't feed the bacteria in the gut. Those are probably all strategies to, again, doing all those things we're talking about, improving the quality of life, just improving sleep. You know, I think a lot of sleep problems are caused from bad digestion. And so I think that's a huge one. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

So I'm curious to know, Danny, with some of the, you know, some of the experiments that you've run on yourself, like any, like what would you say has been like the most potent anti-stress, either hormone or anti-stress molecule? Yeah, you know what it is? It's keeping things as simple as possible. That's my substance that I use regularly.

I'm kind of joking, but I'm kind of serious. It's like keeping... So, for example, in practice, for me, that actually means not eating lots of supplements. And so, on a day-to-day basis, I'll usually take aspirin. I'll take thyroid. And I'll usually supplement with vitamins D and K. And so, I can't lift my leg up because it will bump my microphone. But I actually have that applied to my leg right now on my skin. And so...

I had pretty sensitive digestion most of my life. And so not eating lots of supplements actually, I think, greatly increases my digestive prowess and just alleviates potential complications. And I take that basic view with my food too. Of course, I'm eating to satisfaction and appetite, but I'm not trying to make things mega complex. Because if you do run into a problem, and that's likely because our environment is always...

changing, you know, from day to day. I think it just makes it super simple to navigate that problem without being like, okay, was it the PF Chang's that I ate two days ago? That's like going through my digestive system right now. And, and maybe the other thing that again is not answering your question is cooking your own food. And I, and I think this

especially for a person maybe with a long-term chronic health problem, this is like a non-really negotiable thing. I think if you want to make progress, you really got to cook your own food and eating out every day is probably just a recipe for disaster because the food in most restaurants is such low quality. But to actually answer your question, I think vitamin D I see as like this very powerful ingredient

Anti-stress substance, of course, thyroid. Are you taking that topically or orally? Yeah, just on my skin. So I did an old podcast with Ray in 2016. And the piece of wisdom he provided was like, when you use it topically, you got to use about 10 times the amount. And so if I want 4,000 UI, I'll put on 40,000 on my skin.

Wow. Okay. And you also mentioned aspirin as well. Do you want to share your rationale there? Yeah, yeah. So that one's a hard pill to, no pun intended, to swallow for a lot of people. And it was actually one of the absolute last things I integrated that Ray talked about very favorably. I was like, you got to be wrong about this. Yeah.

Something we didn't really get into, but like a hallmark of stress is the liberation of fatty acids into the blood. And that will be debated by low-carb and carnivore people. But I think it's fairly well-established, you know, that that is true. There's a person named Fran and then a paper by a guy named Wolf. But they're both saying – and again, there's more papers on that – but they're saying –

the liberation of fatty acids, like this fundamental response to stress. And it's probably to slow down the system to get to, again, go long, uh, less, uh, longer unless, you know, to, to make sure you don't burn up your tissues. It's not like advantageous to have extremely high thyroid function under stress because you just waste your tissues, you know? Um, so anyways, aspirin among many other things opposes that process. And so I think it helps, uh,

Your cells use oxygen and glucose and opposes the accumulation of the polyunsaturated fats, that lipid proxidation process that harms mitochondria. It lowers the prostaglandins. In a particular prostaglandin, prostaglandin E2 activates aromatase, converting testosterone into estrogen. I mean, it's like a Swiss army knife. It just does...

It increases barrier function, so it opposes endotoxin like we were talking about earlier. It's just a very useful substance that can... Then again, when I went to Thailand last year, I brought a huge bottle of aspirin just because I was like, I have no idea what I'm going to run into here. And

And I was just, I felt good having that huge, and actually aspirin wasn't even available where I was. And so it was very good that I had it. But anyways, it's like the, it's like an antidote to some of the very toxic aspects of what we've been growing up eating and the culture and the stress and things like in anti-stress substances. So, but it also has like an indirect pro thyroid property. Is that right? I think, I think by like opposing that aromatase, lowering the, or the,

Acting on that cyclooxygenase too, which is like making the prostaglandins. It does a bunch of other things we didn't talk about. Like the part of the bad thing about the calcium going into cell, I think is it turns on nitric oxide and it opposes that. Like it just does so many, again, there's so many things that are happening in the stress response and aspirin is like, oh, boom, boom, boom. And like just decreasing a lot of those.

And so the only caveat, and maybe I'm jumping the gun here, but I think it's good to dissolve the aspirin. So taking the tablet, putting it in hot water, and putting a little baking soda in it. And a lot of those pills have a lot of toxic things in them, like titanium dioxide and stuff. And so I think if a person hears this and they're interested, you probably just want to find an aspirin that's pure or only with starch or something. Yeah, because you mentioned nitric oxide, and I sort of just completely forgot about that. Yeah.

A lot of my listeners will, you know, talk about, well, we've spoken about the benefits of raising nitric oxide in the athletic performance perspective, but let's talk about, you know, some of the damaging effects of nitric oxide. So that, there's a paper, it's called by a guy named McCann, and it's called the Nitric Oxide Theory of Aging. And,

And in that paper, he goes through just a litany of things that really fit into the topics that we're talking about right now. And so I think even in that paper, he says the age of any tissue really correlates well with the amount of nitric oxide it's producing. So again, this is a little over my head, but I think carbon dioxide is the healthy natural vasodilator. And I think when...

for example, estrogen is one of the things that I think powerfully increases nitric oxide. So I think it's like this emergency vasodilator that again, as we accumulate polyunsaturated fat, as we accumulate stress over a lifetime, these things that were adaptive previously become pathological. And in fact, I think there's one paper that says...

the accumulation of linoleic acid, which is formed into arachidonic acid by the liver and the body. Like it wasn't, I can't remember the exact fact. Anyways, a polyunsaturated fat turned nitric oxide from this helpful supportive thing during moments of stress into a pathological agent during aging. And so the only other thing I didn't say, I think it deactivates the mitochondria. And so, yeah,

We've talked a lot about mitochondrial respiration, that being very essential for the integrity of any tissue. And I think that this vasodilation dilative effect that nitric oxide has comes at a great expense by turning off mitochondria. So I realize that's another thing that it's like very at odds with like a lot of people in the health world. But again, that paper McCann's nitric oxide theory of aging. I think that's a excellent paper on the subject. Of course, Ray's work.

Yeah, we'll make sure to link those in the show notes for those listening in. You know, as you're talking, Danny, all I can see now is like, if we have different headings, like, you know, endotoxin, then we've got prostaglandins, cortisol, estrogen, prolactin, like, we haven't even spoken about progesterone. We haven't even been going all day because, you know, progesterone is considered a protective hormone from, you know, in Ray's opinion, right? Yeah.

Yeah, thanks for mentioning that. I totally glazed through them. So all the bad things we've been talking about, the hormones, I think there are... So thyroid is... Part of the reason thyroid is good is it turns over cholesterol into pregnenolone, progesterone, DHEA. And in short, these are opposing all of the negative effects of the cortisol, aldosterone, prolactin, estrogen, etc. And so...

So yeah, that's when things get really bad. Your thyroid function lowers, you decrease the formation of these protective steroids. They call them like the youth associated steroids. And then all you have is these high stress hormones that are just tearing you down. And so for example, DHEA, I think when people like healthy people go parachute, their cortisol goes really high, but so does their DHEA. It's kind of like buffer the effects of cortisol. And so if you,

if you have low thyroid, you're also going to produce less DHEA. So all you're going to have, if that parachuting person did that, they just have high cortisol, which is devastating to your structure and your brain and your heart and everything else. And like, nobody thinks it's good.

Maybe zero carb people think it's good to have high cortisol, but like really nobody does. Well, some people can, I mean, I've seen there's some pretty interesting articles on like how using hydrocortisone and like prednisolone and things like that, people can get almost manic, right?

Yeah, that's the crazy part. And so I skipped over this part of my story, but like I was convinced I had adrenal fatigue. I didn't really understand the thyroid at all. I still don't understand it, but I didn't understand it at all during that time. And there was a book or do you remember that website Stop the Thyroid Madness? Did you ever go on there? Oh, I think I've ever. It doesn't matter. It's like a very popular thyroid website, but they were always talking about like if you didn't respond to thyroid, you needed to increase your cortisol levels. Like it was a popular thing to think that you didn't produce cortisol.

And anyways, long story short, I actually like forced a doctor's hand into prescribing me Cortef, which is like synthetic hydrocortisone.

And I felt pretty bad. So yeah, that is, I don't hear a lot about it these days, but it's a very risky thing to do. But on the flip end, it could make a person feel temporarily better. Because I think part of the reason taking cortisol is that you're turning your tissues into sugar. And so the person experiencing low blood sugar or hypoglycemia

or if they have a high blood sugar and the free fatty acids are blocking the use of sugar, like they might feel significantly better using the cortisol. But again, it's like at a great expense of tearing down your tissue. Danny, do you want to sort of talk about, um, so like this morning temperature you would say is extremely, um,

indicative of somebody's metabolic health. Can you give my audience an understanding around how they should be taking or assessing their temperature?

Yeah, so don't trust me. Get Broda Barnes' book, Hypothyroidism, the Unsuspected Illness. Like, if any of this resonates at all, grab that book. It's only like $12, $13. And peruse it. And in that book, he says anything under 97.8 Fahrenheit, which is I think 36.6 Celsius, is not – that's indicative of hypothyroidism, he thought. Wow.

So Ray adds in almost, I mean, I have a sample size that already resonates with a lot of the things we're talking about, but you see 95s, 96s, like super low temperatures. It's like, seems like the norm. Yeah.

And, and then the thing, the spice that Ray adds to that is that he thinks, not he thinks, there are papers that talk about circadian rhythm of thyroid function being the highest in the afternoon, a little bit lower in the morning and a little bit lower in the evening. And so he, he suggests that the 98.6 is the most critical in the afternoon when the circadian rhythm of the thyroid is the highest.

And so if you measure your pulse, I didn't get to it yet, but pulse and temperature in the morning and then in the afternoon, and then you just on a one minute timer count the pulse. I think doing that for a few days and then getting the average is really an accurate way to assess the thyroid function. Like if you tell that to a medical doctor, they might laugh in your face. But I think it's almost more accurate than a lot of blood tests because as you know,

interpreting blood tests you could give blood tests to 10 different doctors and they'd all tell you probably different things about them it's like uh there's an art to interpreting blood tests with the symptoms of person experiencing and i have extremely low confidence in the ability of many physicians to like interpret blood tests because not only in my own experience of doctors like egregiously kind of not synthesizing what was on the paper but um i've seen it just

Many, many times. And it's disheartening to say the least. Yeah. Interesting. So, and I've heard Ray P talk about, you know, he's very pro caffeine or coffee. I mean, maybe that statement's incorrect. You correct me if I'm wrong. But my stance personally, I mean, I'm someone who,

I respond well to coffee. I feel really good, energetic. But unfortunately, if I don't have the next day, then I feel like my baseline, I'm way below baseline. Are you similar in that regard?

I actually, so again, I don't want to tell you a 25 minute story, but the coffee thing was like a no-go for me. So one, I never really enjoyed coffee my entire life. And then when I tried using it, I drank like half a cup of coffee in the morning and then it would keep me up till like 3 or 4 a.m. So it had this like super prolonged effect that like ruined my sleep.

And so this was actually something Georgie clarified for me. So when we were doing those, Georgie is my co-host partner in these live streams. But anyways, we used to do an old podcast in 2015 and he mentioned in like Bulgaria or something or Europe somewhere that they had a test for caffeine clearance for liver health. And then the people were with like mild or severe liver disease, the caffeine cleared very slowly through the liver. And I was like, aha, that actually kind of makes sense because

I'm so ridiculously sensitive to caffeine. And also I know people that are in good health that can drink coffee before bed and nothing bad happens to them. So I was like, clearly there's something super wrong with me. And anyways, long story short, when I started supplementing thyroid hormone,

which Broda Barnes has another book called, that's all about liver function, saying that the thyroid and liver have this intimate connection. Anyways, long story short, I was able to tolerate caffeine for like the first time in my life when I started taking thyroid. And so, like I have coffee right here. It's nine o'clock. I'm sure I'll be fine when I go to bed tonight. Wow.

Yeah. And what about like using coffee or caffeine in a glycogen depleted state? What's the... Yeah. So that's the thing you got to be careful with. I think the risk of the caffeine could always be mitigated by consuming coffee with a food or adding like heavy cream to it and sugar or whatever. I think...

I think the worst thing to do is like the blood sugar, I think because of that dawn phenomena, like the high cortisol in the morning is the most sensitive in the morning. Like that's, I think that's peak stress for a lot of people. And so drinking a black cup of coffee in the morning is probably like one of the worst things a person could probably do because it's going to lower the blood sugar. Even like, you know, low carb people are like, Oh, it increases ketone bodies. Like that's, that's actually like the opposite of like the bioenergetic kind of

I don't know if we're – that's like the opposite, I think, of what – that's like promoting stress. And so slowing the absorption down with cream and sugar or – and like a pretty large degree of like milk and cream to sugar – to coffee or a meal and taking it afterwards or getting your thyroid checked and maybe you have a pseudo liver problem from hypothyroidism. Interesting. Interesting.

Yeah. So Danny, maybe do you want to, what, what I'm curious to know, like what's next for you? Like what areas of research are you excited to see more of?

And what's next for me is farming. So that's the next thing. I'm in frequent contact with a couple here that wants to move south and start a farm. And so it's still a little up in the air, but I think that's next is learning about something I really have no idea about and getting deep into that. But on the health front,

To be honest with you, I'm not like super, all this stuff is endlessly fascinating, but I'm sure yourself, you go through phases of being like hyper interested in different subjects. And I think that has kind of been funneled into live streams. And so I'm talking to Georgian Friday and all of that will come out and all my interest will come out into that. Then we'll do it the next week.

And so besides like talking to people, doing an odd interview here and there, there's nothing, I'll get on little kicks like,

how does prolactin really work? Like, what don't I know about it or something? Or somebody will send me something that will start a, like a rabbit trail into somewhere that I've never been before. But it's, it's a little bit rarer these days just because I'm, I think I'm doing so much more than I used to do. Yeah. Yeah. And you're doing a, like for those listening in, Danny, where can they find your live streams and all of your, all of your content?

At the moment, the Telegram is probably the best place. It's t.me slash Danny Roddy. Or you could go on YouTube for as long as it's around at youtube.com slash Danny Roddy. And you can find the live streams there. But the Telegram would probably be the best to keep up to date about all the things. Amazing. Well, yeah, we'll be sure to link them in the show notes for those listening in. But Danny, I'm sure we could probably talk for many more hours. Very long time.

And like even some of those topics, I'm like, oh geez, I would love to go down a rabbit hole here. But

just say, you know, I'm cautious of my audience as well. Like what do they want to learn? But yeah, man, like thanks so much for coming on the show. It's just been a pleasure chatting with you for the first time. It's total, total pleasure. If you ever want to do it again, let me know anytime. But thank you for doing the work. You know, I said off air that I have massive respect for anybody that's kind of putting themselves out there, creating content. I think that's a very hard thing to do. And so I think you're doing

God's work. And so kudos to you as well for just being an advocate of taking your health in your own hands and figuring things out. That's it. Awesome. Well, yeah, Danny, thanks for coming on the show, man. Pleasure. Thank you, Lucas. Thank you everyone for joining in to today's episode. For in-depth show notes and lessons learned, visit nofilter.media forward slash boostyourbiology.com

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