6/26/25: McConnell Says Get Over Medicaid Cuts, Bernie And Rogan Rip AIPAC, Liver King Arrested
39:22 Share

This is an iHeart Podcast. This July 4th, celebrate freedom from spills, stains, and overpriced furniture with Anabay, the only machine washable sofa inside and out where designer quality meets budget-friendly pricing. Sofas start at just $699, making it the perfect time to upgrade your space. Anabay's

pet friendly stain resistant and interchangeable slip covers are made with high performance fabric that's built for real life you'll love the cloud like comfort of hypoallergenic high resilience foam that never needs fluffing and a durable steel frame that stands the test of time with modular pieces you can rearrange anytime it's a so

Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Wells Fargo seeks broad impact in their communities, focused on supporting customers and communities through housing affordability, small business growth, financial health, and more. Donated over $2 billion to strengthen local communities over the last five years. Wells Fargo, the bank of doing. Learn more at wellsfargo.com slash say do. Support includes contributions from Wells Fargo & Company, Wells Fargo Bank N.A., and the Wells Fargo Foundation.

T-shirts that get it.

Hey guys, Sagar and Crystal here. Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show. This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else. So if that is something that's important to you, please go to BreakingPoints.com, become a member today, and you'll get access to our

Full shows, unedited, ad-free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. - We need your help to build the future of independent news media, and we hope to see you at breakingpoints.com. Let's turn now to the one big, beautiful bill that's the major tax legislation being pushed by Republicans through the House and the Senate. There's been some pretty big developments there, but really it's the political development of the future of Medicaid, which is the one that is just hanging like a noose around the Republican's neck.

You've got two sides, really. You've got President Trump and you've got Josh Hawley and a few other Republicans who are saying, we're not going to cut Medicaid. We're not going to touch it. And then you've got others like Senator Mitch McConnell who are like, yeah, people will get over it. And if you think I'm making it up, let's put this up there on the screen. This is leaked from a direct meeting of the Senate Republicans. Senator Tom Tillis warned GOP senators during a closed door meeting that Senate reconciliation bill would prompt major electoral losses similar to Obamacare.

Tillis aired concerns with Senate's Medicaid provider tax framework. The majority leader, John Thune, defended it, saying it's a key component for their spending cuts. Separately, Mitch McConnell said, quote, failure isn't an option. I know a lot of us are hearing from people back home about Medicaid.

But they'll get over it. They'll get over it. Okay. Good luck. Yeah, I don't think so, actually. And, you know, just to show that it's not just crazy people like Josh Hawley or whatever that are worried about this. Let's put this up there on the screen from Politico. Even the speaker, Mike Johnson, who is not somewhat liberal, like, you know, is saying –

That Medicaid backlash could be a serious problem for a lot of the House Republicans and their majority next year. A lot of this just comes down to the fact that because they're not willing to cut the Pentagon and because discretionary spending is just not that big, like in terms of Doge or wherever, I think it's probably less than 7% of the federal budget. You've got to hit an entitlement program somewhere. You can't touch Medicare, can't touch Social Security. So they're going after it.

quote unquote reforms within Medicaid. But no matter how, which way you slice it, it would lead to less services. And that's of course where the spending cuts are coming from. And that is one of the most tangible ways, which particularly lower middle-class Americans and more interact with the federal government for spending. It would just be such an,

a massive own goal, especially in the realm of war with Iran and a trillion dollar Pentagon budget to show what the priorities are, not to mention the fact that it extends many of those tax cuts from the TCJA, which had lowered the taxes for the wealthiest income brackets.

There's also the SALT provision, which continues to be battled out within there. But Medicaid is like the number one thing. And actually, outside of Iran, I think this one is breaking through. This is one of those where it's like the Social Security thing. It's a service that people use. By the way, my Social Security card for my daughter took forever to come. Thank you, Elon.

Oh, yeah. It's like a tangible thing. I was like, where is the damn card? I need to sign up for health insurance. But just goes to show you, you know, these are things people actually need to use all all segments of society. And so that really, especially combined with the tax cut, it's just a brutal headline for the Republicans. Even Hakeem Jeffries and Chuck Schumer can figure out how to message this. Yeah, that's right. You know, a giant tax cut for you. You are losing your health care.

so that rich people can get a tax cut. That's the promise of this bill, and that's why some Republicans are wise enough to realize this could be a political problem. I mean, I think a lot of them realize that. But remember,

The vast majority of the Republican caucus are incredibly safe seats. So they're not worried about it. You have, you know, the number of swing states has like shrunk and shrunk and shrunk. So you have a comparatively small number. And then they're terrified of just getting crosswise from Trump with Trump because, you know, they see what he's doing to Thomas Massey right now, the way he's aggressively going after. We didn't even get a chance to cover this. He set up an entire PAC.

to spend money against Thomas Massey to try to defeat him because of his defiance over a number of issues, but including the illegal strikes on Iran, illegal war waged against Iran. So they know what happens when you get crosswise with Trump.

And so they're fearful, even the ones who are in districts that are potentially winnable by a Democrat. Yeah, that's right. And so let's go to the next one, please. And just on the screen, just to underscore a lot of this, this is D3 and it shows all of the polling. So this is from Fox News, by the way, and that's why we picked it. So can you understand what's in the bill? 60% say, yeah, that's actually a lot. I'm pretty shocked that people are paying attention that much. But here's the most devastating one. Your opinion, 60% say they oppose.

38% say that they favor. For your family, the big, beautiful bill will, quote, make no difference, 26%, 23% help, 49% say it will hurt. It's not exactly true just because outside of Medicaid, it's mostly extending tax cuts that were already passed. That's why it's kind of funny seeing the Republican messaging. They're like, if we don't do this, it will be a massive tax hike. I'm like, well, no, it'll revert back to the original tax code of 2016. But

What? Most people don't actually pay that much attention to taxes. It's really about services that broadly is one of the ones that we're watching. So, for example, let's put guys D4 up on the screen. This is about the process that has happened inside of the Senate. And that's broadly where these Medicaid stuff has come into play because a lot of the spending cuts have

are coming from the program. President Trump actually spoke with a reporter today saying he was against that. But then on top of that, and I know this sounds like very in the weeds, but it really matters, is that just this morning,

The Senate parliamentarian has, quote, struck a whole bunch of critical health provisions from the bill, including the provider tax framework. Effectively, what that means is it screws with many of the ways they were going to pay and fund their tax or their tax extension and their spending cuts. And so what that would mean is would increase the deficit score.

Now, if it increases the deficit score outside of the Senate bill, that will then move to the House, where already you had a lot of Freedom Caucus Republicans bucking at the fact that the deficit was going to increase as a result of this. So you got two kind of opposing forces at work. And most importantly is that President Trump has said he does not want Congress—we can put that D5, please—

on the screen, President Trump has said nobody's leaving Washington until the mega tax bill is done. He wants it passed by July 4th. This makes that a hell of a lot more difficult because they just lost a lot of their pay-fors. They're going to be in parliamentary hell for the next week now, basically. And what that means is that they're going to have to scramble and find some other stuff to do that's going to

run up against the House Republicans in the Freedom Caucus. And of course, it just makes it not only is it more chaotic, but it's more likely they're going to have to cut even deeper from some other type of social program and find some other way just to pay for a tax cut, which people at home are all paying attention to. A couple other provisions that the parliamentarian has said cannot be included in this reconciliation bill that are noteworthy. Number one, we had mentioned before and covered before the fact that in the House version, there was an effect

Effectively a provision that is meant to make it difficult or impossible for federal courts to enforce contempt charges against the federal government.

The parliamentarian has said you can't do that. The Senate had a slightly modified version. It would have required plaintiffs to post potentially enormous bonds when asking courts to issue preliminary injunctions or impose temporary restraining orders against the federal government. The House version had to do with contempt orders. In any case, she said none of this can go in this bill. So that is probably being stripped down.

couple that are really noteworthy. There was a provision that would reduce the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, that's basically the anti-scam bureau funding to zero, that also was deemed to not qualify for reconciliation. And there was another proposal that would put the Public Company Accounting Oversight Board, which is the U.S. audit watchdog, into the SEC. Um,

that again was deemed not eligible for the reconciliation process. So these are some of these provisions. The court one is actually quite significant and the CFPB one also very significant. So the fact they won't make it into reconciliation matters a lot, but also to Sager's

point, you know, as they go through all these things. There was also a piece they were trying to sell off all the U.S. Postal Service's new electric vehicle fleet and charging infrastructure, which I can't imagine they were going to make like that much money on it. But that was another one of their payfors. I'll buy it. That also got that also got taken out of the bill. So I'm sorry, you won't be able to purchase one of the USPS electric. I'll take it for pennies on the dollar. That sounds pretty fun to roll around in an electric car.

Post office. I mean, one of the weirdest thing is I actually love not even just electric vehicles, but resto mod stuff, like stuff that's electric, like a golf cart, you know, and things like they're just fun to drive. Like, let's be honest. At this point, a check relationship with golf carts. I don't blame you. I don't blame you. But I enjoy them. I enjoy seeing them around.

This July 4th, celebrate freedom from spills, stains, and overpriced furniture with Anabay, the only machine washable sofa inside and out where designer quality meets budget-friendly pricing. Sofas start at just $699, making it the perfect time to upgrade your space. Anabay's pet-friendly, stain-resistant, and interchangeable slipcovers are made with high-performance fabric that's built for real life. You'll love the cloud-like comfort of hypoallergenic, high-resilience foam that never needs

And a durable steel frame that stands the test of time. With modular pieces, you can rearrange any time. It's a sofa that adapts to your life. Now through July 4th, get up to 60% off site-wide at washablesofas.com. Every order comes with a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping, no restocking fees, every penny back. Declare independence from dirty, outdated furniture. Shop now at washablesofas.com.

Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. It is Ryan here and I have a question for you. What do you do when you win? Like, are you a fist pumper? A woohooer? A hand clapper? A high fiver? If you want to hone in on those winning moves, check out Chumba Casino. Choose from hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to redeem serious cash prizes. There are new game releases weekly plus free daily bonuses. So don't wait. Start having the most fun ever.

at ShumbaCasino.com. No purchase necessary. VGW group void where prohibited by law. 21 plus terms and conditions apply. Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder.

I'm Catherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband. It's a cold case. They've never found her. And it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there.

Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. If you have a case you'd like me to look into...

Call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's move on to Bernie, shall we? Yeah, so Bernie Sanders went back on with Joe Rogan. I did actually, I sort of skimmed through the whole conversation and there was a long stretch that was interesting, but kind of, you know, went on for a long time about like AI and what do we do about this and how do people feel?

find meaning. So that was a lot of it. Also, Bernie just doing his normal Bernie thing, talking about health care and the millionaires, the billionaires was also a good part of it. But there are a couple of pieces that I found pretty interesting. One of them where Bernie is talking about Congressman Massey and some of the some of the attitude he's taken towards the Iran war in particular. And you get Joe's response to that. So let's go ahead and take a take a listen to that. I mentioned there's a guy named Mr. Massey. Is that name? Thomas Massey. Thomas from Kentucky. Yeah.

And this guy, as I am, is opposed to this war in Iran. Just yesterday, Trump gave a long post about how they're going to primary this guy. And what bothers me is you would hope that there would be respect enough for members of Congress that you can vote your own conscience. You could represent your constituency. Every district is different than America. But

Right now, anybody stands up and say, well, you know, I disagree with President Trump. Bam, you are finished. We're going to primary you. We got all kinds of money. You're out of there. That happened to Massey yesterday. So I thought that was pretty interesting, that coming up and, you know, Trump's attempt to punish Thomas Massey, which we were just talking about. And Thomas Massey has been peeking out a lot about AIPAC. And I think it's been really important. He's also raised about $1.5 million in the last week. So Massey's crushing it, right?

Yeah. I mean, I think that his speaking out on AIPAC in particular coming from a Republican who has a lot of credibility, you know, certain he's an ideological libertarian, but he has a lot of credibility with a pretty significant swath of the Republican Party. And for him to be talking about the influence of this lobby and the way that it works, I think, has been really significant, broken through to people like

um, Joe Rogan and others where, you know, I mean the left, we're, we're always talking about money in politics, Bernie's always talking about money in politics. It really does land a lot when you have someone from the right who is making that kind of a critique. Um, there was another moment here that I thought was interesting that I wanted to get your reaction to Sagar, where, um, Joe is talking about how he sees the divisions within MAGA right now, again, about a war in Iran. Let's go ahead and take a list of that part. I think the whole, uh,

MAGA thing right now is very divided, particularly because one of the things that they voted for was no war. Well, now it seems like we're in a war, right? And it's quick. We're six months in and that's already popped off. And then people are very concerned with now what happens to our troops overseas that are in these bases, that are in vulnerable positions, and what happens with

I mean there are supposedly documented terror cells that got in through the open border over the last four years. So what happens now in America? What happens on American soil? I mean I agree with those. When a guy like Thomas Massey steps up and says something, he's going to have a lot more support as well.

The answer is yes. And my only point is he has a right. Yes. You know, somebody else says, hey, I think the war is a great idea. Fine. That's your view. You got to go back. But what bothers me is that if anybody stands up the next day, we're going to primary. You're out of here, man. And that's the Republicans. Let me talk about the Democrats for a moment. OK. And I don't even know your views on this. So you may disagree with me.

You know, Israel was attacked by Hamas. Hamas is a terrible terrorist organization. They killed 1,200 people, which in a small country like Israel is a lot of people. Terrible, terrible attack. It's a war crime. Israel had a right, in my view, to defend itself. But the Netanyahu government did not have a right to kill 52,000 people in Gaza, wound well over 100,000. And right now, as we speak, Joe,

children are starving to death because of Israel's blockades. Starving to death. And I brought forth two resolutions, which basically were very simple and said no more U.S. military aid to Israel under these conditions. One vote got 15 votes in the Senate. The other one got 16. Do you think that members of the Senate

do not know what's going on in Gaza. The kids are starving to death. The innocent people are being shot down right and left. They know it. Why do you think I couldn't get more votes? They wouldn't vote against Israel. Right. It's political suicide. Now you're talking. Right. All right. So in the Republican side, you have moneyed interests saying, you speak up against Trump, you're out of here. In the Democratic side, you speak up against the Netanyahu government, you're out of here as well. And they have been successful. You have super PACs like AIPAC spending a fortune on

You stand—and they have already knocked off a number of members of Congress, good members of Congress, and they will do it again. So all I'm saying is you've got a corrupt campaign finance system on both sides.

So what do you think of that? Well, that's what makes Bernie good at this, right? Is that he's talking both about those sides and he also gets Joe to kind of agree with him. I mean, you know, it's funny. This is where the analysis just always and I understand why people do this, but the MAGA base is an actual thing. It's not just like something you talk about. I'm talking about people who love Donald Trump and say that he is more important to them than the Republican Party. That is not really the podcast audience really at all.

Most of those people are boomers, rural working class voters who mostly just like don't vote for anything else and they just love Trump. Now, outside of that is more what I would say is the Maha base, and this would probably be a more accurate way of talking about it, who are a lot more podcast aligned and who are a lot more libertarian.

Those are the people. I put Dave Smith in that category, maybe Candace Owens, probably Joe himself, who were attracted to Trump for more of those elements, Tulsi Gabbard as well. That, if anybody's, quote, been betrayed, I would say it's that segment of that audience. Now, I'm not going to sit here and claim that that's a meaningful 50 or 60 percent or whatever of the Republican electorate. But it is a new part. And it's also, look, when you win the popular vote, you do so with a coalition.

MAGA was – they're never going to go anywhere. That's not the point. MAGA is not ever going to go anywhere. The boomer Republicans are going to vote Republican no matter what. The way you win the popular vote are with some really interesting coalitional groups, MAHA people, and also some of these more anti-war voters. We were going to do a segment before the Iran war ended. Ended.

whatever, at least paused, at least for now, about polling. But, you know, these anti-war Muslims in Dearborn, it was not nothing that put them over the edge. That's how you win X amount of electoral votes. And so I think we need to be more accurate in terms of the type of voter who is out there. Again, I would never claim that this is a huge...

percentage, but it can be your margin of victory. And I think we should start thinking about it in those terms. I, to me, the way I've been talking about it is the MAGA base versus independents, you know, independents who swung to Trump and that's what gives him this victory and gives him the popular vote margin, et cetera. And I think they're the ones who are up for grabs and, you know, independents overall, if you looking at the, look at the polling, people who don't identify as Republicans don't identify as Democrats. They are not happy about the strike's

You know, the numbers are significantly underwater. They're overwhelmingly underwater among Democrats. They are significantly underwater among independents. Among Republicans, they all basically support him. CBS did a to your point about like parsing the MAGA base. CBS did a poll separating out all self-described Republicans from Republicans.

self-described MAGA Republicans. And among all Republicans, the strikes were supported 85 to 15, so still quite overwhelming. Among MAGA Republicans, actually, the support is even higher, 94%.

of the MAGA Republican base supported these strikes. So the accuracy in the language is something that's been bugging me too, because if you say the MAGA base is divided, like they're not. The MAGA base is 94% in favor of these airstrikes. They shifted before Trump did it. There was a little bit more dissent, a little bit more concern. Once he did it,

They were all on board. And that is what we've seen. You know, there is not a core ideology here. The core commitment is to Donald Trump and what he does, what he says defines where MAGA is going to be. And that is just reality.

that we've seen time and time and time and time again. This is not the first time that Donald Trump has claimed he was going to go in one direction and then ultimately gone in the other direction. And we've seen the MAGA base every single time find a way to justify it because Trump did it. Ergo, it must ultimately be good. That's right. Probably the most heated exchange over the course of the interview came towards the end when Bernie seeks to bring up some of Trump's authoritarian tactics. And Joe starts to get a little...

A little, you know, it gets a little more contentious here where Bernie is specifically talking about some of the lawsuits and the attacks on free speech by Trump, some of the lawsuits that he has waged against various media companies. Let's go ahead and take a listen. This went on for a little while, but let's go ahead and take a listen to a section of this. And what I worry about Trump and is.

You're right. You know, I read it is astounding back in the 1780s when these guys wrote the Constitution, how perceptive they were. Amazing. Yeah. I mean, they said understanding of human desires and the power. Exactly. All the corruption. Exactly. Pretty amazing. And they wrote that having just fought a war and won a war against the most powerful despot.

on Earth, the King of England, right? And I think in the back of their minds, we're saying, all right, we just beat the King of England, absolute power. How do you create a new country which has checks and balance so that nobody ever has that power? And I got to say, I mean, one of the things, and there's a lot of arguments about Trump, that worries me very, very much is this movement toward authoritarianism and going after media, suing media,

taking away the authority that Congress has. When you say suing media, are you talking about the CBS lawsuit? Among other things. But don't you think there's a real issue with what they did? No. You don't think that there's a real issue in editing conversations to give someone an answer that's different than what they really answered? Joe, I've been on eight zillion shows in my life. Okay. Now, should I sue you if you ask me some stupid question?

That I don't like, right? Or that you do something. Do I have a right? Should I sue you? Yeah, but that's not what he's getting – Well, he has sued ABC. He has sued Meta. He is suing the Des Moines Register because of a poll that came out during the campaign that he didn't like. All right? He is suing CBS for this Kamala Harris interview. So do I think –

How many—I cannot tell you the number of stories done about me that were based—that were not good stories. Right. That were dishonest stories. That's what a free press is about. You don't like it, you've got to live with it. So, you know, Bernie is sort of making the broader point about the authoritarian tactics, and Joe is—

I mean, Joe's supposed to be a free speech guy, but then he's down with these lawsuits against CBS, et cetera. The reason I understand is he's probably deeply fed up with a lot of these. In fact, I find this with a lot of rich guys who are relatively well-known, is they get pissed about the media. And I actually understand, but the point is, is that... We get pissed about the media, too. Listen, I hate them too, right? Like, I've literally had lies written about me multiple times. And it's like, well, you know, that's part...

I think it's more useful to explain the principle and I haven't listened fully to the interviews. I don't know if Bernie gets to this, but the point of the way that the standard is set currently is,

is that you have to be able to prove as a public figure their willful knowledge, that they knew what they were saying was a lie at the time, and then you have to be able to show a damage. Now, the reason why it's set that way is from a New York Times versus Sullivan case at the Supreme Court back in the 1970s, because we actually used to live in a much more censorious press. And the way that that current legal doctrine looks like is Britain. And in Britain, they actually have a much lower standard

for the ability to sue over defamation and libel. And in my opinion, I don't think you have nearly an adversarial culture enough. You have much more of like the power veto of somebody coming in and saying, no, that's not gonna happen. And the reason why I think that that standard is important from a media person who works in this is it preserves the ability to report things that are off the cuff

on the fly, first draft of history. Of course, there are going to be errors. As long as you have an editorial process in place, and you can also demonstrate that what you're trying to do is not willfully lie about somebody, then it should be an extremely high standard to make sure that you can disseminate that level of information. And if that didn't exist, you genuinely would have just a lot less of people. Okay, let's go to the great example, this Iran intelligence story.

The Trump administration is saying that they're trying to libel these pilots. You can see that's bullshit. That's not what's happening. They took facts and they reported it. They're not willfully trying to libel or defame the pilots. They're taking information and they're putting it out into the public. But people should know that prior to that Sullivan decision and really to the Pentagon Papers, that story never would have seen the light of day. You and I would have no idea.

that that was actually the case. And I think we're better off for knowing. Let's take that one step further because this gets to the next point, which is that what happened with ABC News and with CBS is because they didn't want to get crosswise with the Trump administration, they didn't go forward and fight. That's the thing. They could have taken it to trial and they absolutely would have won. I'm telling you 100% they would have won. But they decided they would rather effectively

pay a bribe to track so that their business deals could go through. And Bernie does get to this point. Their business deals can go through and they're not going to get messed with, et cetera. And so even though, you know, when they're out there saying, oh, these new, the New York Times or whoever is libeling these pilots, even though that's obviously a bullshit and spurious claim because of the track record,

Of all of these media lawsuits and the fact that these corporate entities are very willing to bend the knee and capitulate and pay the bribe rather than have their business messed with, it does act as an effective check on the press because they have that hanging over their head. We saw the way that 60 Minutes—

It's the fallout over there and their desire, the leadership's desire there for them not to go too far in terms of their Trump criticism so that they wouldn't, their larger business entity wouldn't get crosswise with them. And so that's the point that Bernie is trying to make. And, you know, on the specifics of like the CBS News, I think was the one where there was an edit of Kamala Harris that like made Kamala look better.

I mean, you can criticize the jury like as we did. Yes. But also news outlets edit interviews all the time. Right. Not us, by the way. Not us. Just so you Fox News. I'm not going to say we've never edited an interview. I like I actually I'm not sure it's ever. I don't know if we have. But like theoretically, you could. You know, OK, that question like didn't we don't have time, whatever. But Fox.

News edited that interview with Trump where to make his Epstein answer look better, like should Kamala sue Fox News over distorting the election because they hid from the audience the fact that Trump gave a really poor answer on Jeffrey Epstein that actually raised a lot of questions? No. She should complain about it. Fine. But the idea you should sue them or any other news outlet that edits an interview that's

a way that you don't find to be advantageous for you or you find to be advantageous for your opponent, that is ridiculous. I mean, it is completely absurd. But again...

The broader piece here is part and parcel of this series of authoritarian tactics that are used to force media organizations to trim their sales, to not critique as much, to be afraid of these lawsuits, to pay tribute to the king. It goes with the university, the approach to universities, goes the approach to law firms, and is sort of like part and parcel of this project.

And that is really the important point to make here versus even getting into the nitty gritty. I mean, the details, sure, they matter, but getting into the nitty gritty of the lawsuits isn't really the point. It's that bigger picture that is what really matters. I don't disagree, but I also think that part of the problem, this is actually, I mean, I think Trump,

What he does is he takes everything to the nth degree. But the truth is that government has always used its leverage over these massive corporations to influence media. And what we can see, like, for example, let's take CBS. CBS is owned by Paramount.

Right. And Paramount is now being sold to Skydance. Well, Sherry Redstone, who was the head of Paramount, who is, by the way, a massive pro-Zionist Jew. Yeah. That's part of the reason she's interfering in CBS 60 Minutes. And also because she wants her merger to go through, which is like Paramount Studios in Hollywood. Yeah. And thus is trying to placate Trump over here. That's right. This, by the way, is, again, this is not just Trump. This is a tale as old as time.

The Bush administration did this on Iraq coverage back in the mid-2000s. We've seen significant pressure in the past, for example. I read Jack Welch's book or a book about Jack Welch, and he would never sell CNBC because he was like, you don't understand. CNBC cost me X amount of money, but its value to General Electric as a

company because of the ability to manipulate the stock market and to influence all policy discussion is immense. Bloomberg, same thing. Bloomberg Terminal owns Bloomberg News. So really, I think it's also a story of corporate consolidation and control over media because, of course, the government and presidents in that will use their leverage over

on those organizations. We've seen it threatened in the past. Nixon famously as well would threaten their businesses and their permits and all these other things that won't be able to go through. It's part of the reason why, you know, with the internet and more independent models, it actually, you genuinely can get a little bit more freedom. But yeah, it's such a big story that it is important for people to understand that. I just, I was, that's all accurate. I've never seen a

president sue a media company over a poll they didn't like. No, but that's what I'm saying. Trump just goes all out, okay? I want to say full something else, but I'll save it. But that's what he does. But he's less subtle about it, I guess.

I'm only just contextualizing it in that so that people should understand that – I mean remember when Bernie – what did he say on the campaign trail? Oh, about Washington Post? Yeah, and he was like, who's that owned by? He said, who's that owned by? Something like that. And everyone freaked out at him. But it's just so obvious now, the way that this all – and the way that they use their media companies as tools for their broader empire.

Bezos yesterday rolled out a new policy where sources who disagree with the way a story was framed are able to email in their comments about a story. Yeah, why do you think he did that? Okay. All right. Let's wonder a little bit about why these things work. Well, here's what I would say is different, and then we can get to the Liver King story, which also directly involves Joe Rogan and also involves us potentially. Yes, that's right.

What Trump has done differently with his administration, I did a long monologue about this previously, is there is no longer even the appearance or claim or pretense of neutrality. Everyone knows if you get crosswise with Trump, he will get the DOJ after you. He will pull your funding, whether it's Department of Education, whether it's your federal emergency, whatever it is. There is no pretext of neutrality.

It's Versailles. You're completely accurate about that. So previously, remember in the Obama administration's big scandal that allegedly there were tax statuses being revoked by the IRS in a political manner. This is a giant scandal, okay? This would go unremarked upon.

I don't even know there'd be a news article about it. It's just- What was that woman's name? Lois Lerner. It is so, that is what has truly been transformed about the government under Trump is everyone expects-

that every single aspect, every agency, every agency head, every lever that they can use against you, they will. And so that means that, you know, if Trump threatens to sue you, that carries a lot of power. If they're going out, if they're a university that they're going after, if it's a state they're going after, it contains even more power. Not that it hasn't always been, you know, the federal government has always had a lot of power, but now there's not even a pretense

of neutrality whatsoever. So they can go after you and it's barely even a scandal that they're doing it in a politically motivated way. So that's what I think is, you know, has, that's what the Rubicon Trump has truly crossed and, you know, a way in which he has truly changed the nature of the relationship that people expect from the federal government vis-a-vis the citizens and civil societies. Yeah, I don't, I don't really disagree with any of that.

This July 4th, celebrate freedom from spills, stains, and overpriced furniture with Anabay, the only machine washable sofa inside and out where designer quality meets budget-friendly pricing. Sofas start at just $699, making it the perfect time to upgrade your space. Anabay is perfect for you.

Pet-friendly, stain-resistant, and interchangeable slipcovers are made with high-performance fabric that's built for real life. You'll love the cloud-like comfort of hypoallergenic, high-resilience foam that never needs fluffing and a durable steel frame that stands the test of time.

with modular pieces you can rearrange anytime. It's a sofa that adapts to your life. Now through July 4th, get up to 60% off site-wide at washablesofas.com. Every order comes with a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping, no restocking fees, every penny back. Declare independence from dirty, outdated furniture. Shop now at washablesofas.com.

Over the past six years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned one thing. No town is too small for murder. I'm Katherine Townsend. I've received hundreds of messages from people across the country begging for help with unsolved murders. I was calling about the murder of my husband at the cold case. They've never found her. And it haunts me to this day. The murderer is still out there.

Every week on Hell and Gone Murder Line, I dig into a new case, bringing the skills I've learned as a journalist and private investigator to ask the questions no one else is asking. If you have a case you'd like me to look into...

Call the Hell and Gone Murder Line at 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I know a lot of cops, and they get asked all the time, have you ever had to shoot your gun? Sometimes the answer is yes.

But there's a company dedicated to a future where the answer will always be no. Across the country, cops called this taser the revolution. But not everyone was convinced it was that simple. Cops believed everything that taser told them. From Lava for Good and the team that brought you Bone Valley comes a story about what happened when a multibillion-dollar company dedicated itself to one visionary mission. This is Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated. ♪

I get right back there and it's bad. It's really, really, really bad. Listen to new episodes of Absolute Season 1, Taser Incorporated, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Binge episodes 1, 2, and 3 on May 21st and episodes 4, 5, and 6 on June 4th. Add free at Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts.

Let's get over to Liver King, shall we? Yes, again, just to bring it full circle, because we were in the Liver King documentary, and this also involves Joe Rogan, and it's a fun story to end on. After an insane couple of weeks, Liver King has found himself...

under arrest in the city of Austin. Let's go ahead and put some of that video up there on the screen after issuing, quote, terroristic threats against Joe Rogan. I mean, Liver King, his real name is Brian Johnson, as revealed in the documentary, and as he often would talk about on his social media platform. I mean, let's be honest, this guy has totally lost it. He appears, he looks terrible. It's

Who knows exactly what's going on with him, whether he's on something or whether he's withdrawing from the steroids that he admitted to taking after lying to everybody about not taking steroids. But the point actually as a sociological phenomenon is important to see because, look, I mean, Liver King is a bullshit artist. I mean, this is a guy who, again, lied about taking steroids, sold drugs.

I think it was like $100 million or something like that in supplements. He pulled off a bunch of stunts to popularize his carnivore diet. Fine. But really, he was like selling a vision and lifestyle centered around a body, which just fundamentally he was lying about. And everybody kind of knew he was lying. But the proof eventually being released by my friend Derek over at More Plates, More Dates just really revealed him to be a total fraud. And he tried to have his whole redemption arc.

But I mean, what this just like demonstrates is also,

So many people were looking up to Liver King at that time. It's important to remember that a huge part of his audience was like teenage males who weren't really able to discern a lot of this. And so in the hopes of being able to show people what the downside of, frankly, unhinged, lying personality of somebody who's willing to perpetrate, first of all, like this massive attention grab and all this ridiculous shit that he was doing.

But also look at the downside of this. He's literally melting down on his Instagram page, now being arrested by the police and is obviously unhinged. He looks terrible. I genuinely hope he gets the help that he needs. He needs to be committed. His wife and his kids are like, you guys need to step up here, man, because this is a crash out of epic proportions. Like, yeah, take control because this is not good. You know, whatever.

I'll tell you, I watched a documentary last night about him that Sager's monologue like builds to a crescendo and it wraps up with Sager's monologue. Also, my voice is briefly in it as well from our last, our Joe Rogan appearance. I forgot that we talked about this. I forgot about it too. And Joe's like, yeah, I knew he was a fraud and I'm like, oh, just based on how he looks. So in any case, um,

You know, we've been following it. He was obviously not on my readers. I wasn't really the key demographic that they were going after. But what jumps out in the documentary is, first of all, you feel terrible for these boys. I do. I know those children are used as props to basically sell a lifestyle. And all this weird shit he has them do. I mean, I felt I feel bad for those kids. I think we need to get like child influence, like parents using kids.

as influencers, there needs to be laws and regulation around this because it is sickening. It really, it's a huge industry and it's grotesque. And, you know, I, so you, first and foremost, you feel bad for these kids. Um,

Secondly, you are wondering what is the wife is just going along with all of this? What is happening? And then third was it was so disturbing to me that this is someone who so many young men looked up to as a role model when this person is the polar opposite of who a role model should be. I mean, now he's had the full mental break, but this was not a well person. And obviously, his whole thing is built on a lie. He is a...

Connard is complete fraud. I mean, I think a lot of his origin story, too, is probably a fraud, which involved his kids, by the way. Nobody knows. Like, you can't take any of this for granted now because his big selling point was I look like this because of these nine ancestral principles or whatever. Tenets. Yeah, nine ancestral tenets.

And that was all total and complete bullshit. And it wasn't like he just didn't answer the question. Multiple podcasts he'd go on and they'd say, are you on? Absolutely not. No, I know people can't believe it. I love when I get this question, but no, it's all natural and you need to

Stop limiting yourself and believing that this isn't possible for you too, blah, blah, blah. So this is a con artist, a charlatan, a fraud, someone who is clearly like deeply insecure and in some sort of mental anxiety, anguish, et cetera, and becomes an icon and a role model for millions of... I mean, it does bring you back to the point of like...

we have to do some self-reflection about what state young men are in, that this would be appealing to them. And so many people will gravitate to such an obvious charlatan. So that was the piece for me. And then, you know, I've watched a bunch of videos of him just like,

hunting Joe Rogan throughout Austin. And I think effectively, like he has in his mental collapse, fixated like a stalker on Rogan as the source of his downfall, because Joe had said, you know, several things

things about him. He was the most prominent person to be like, that guy's a liar. Before it even officially came out. And then he had Derek on the podcast to go through all of the like, you know, total evidence, like the, you know, the leaked emails and everything that just proved that he absolutely was a fraud and a liar. And so it seems like this guy is completely fixated on Joe. He's hunting him. He shows up in Austin. He's making these direct threats.

And he's carrying around this briefcase that has Joe's like the Joe Rogan experience logo, which includes his face, of course, on it. And at one point he opens it briefly. And if you do like freeze frame of what's inside of it, there's at least one gun in there. Yeah.

And he's saying, you know, he's saying he wants to fight him and he's coming after him and all of these sorts of things. So I think that's what probably led to them feeling like, okay, we've got enough that we've got to arrest this guy. But yeah, he needs to get help. No, I'm actually glad. I'm glad that they arrested him because you can't just be rolling around threatening people with guns on social media. I mean, look, we have some video of this. I'm going to play it for you. You guys can't beat this guy. He's lost it, okay? Let's watch.

Because Joe Rogan, we don't have to make videos to pretend anymore. All of this is happening. We're coming to you. I've challenged you man to man to a fight. Honorable. And we don't have to pretend or make any videos. The world is watching. They'll make the videos for us. And you don't have to hold a camera. You can hold the hand of somebody that you love because what happens next to you, you're going to need to remember that feeling. You're going to need something more than what you did.

to give you something to fight for because I have my family to fight for. That's what warriors do. You and Andrew Tate are good warriors. But you're actually better than that real tension we have. Comedy that you do is good and true.

Yeah, it's creepy, man. I mean, beyond creepy. It's terrifying, honestly. So I'm glad that they pressed charges because this type of behavior is just ridiculous. And, yeah, honestly, we all hope Brian, not the liver king, gets the help that he deserves. Yeah. I mean, look at those pupils. One is like triple the size of the other. There's a lot going on there. And, yeah, he needs mental help. That's very clear. And, yeah.

Frankly, like, the kids are one thing. Like, you know, I don't know what age they are at this point, but this is their dad, et cetera. But shame on his wife and his handlers and whoever's getting paid by him, whatever. Oh, yeah. For letting it get to this point. Letting it get to this point is just...

Absolutely. It's sad. All right. Maybe they can play this in the follow-up documentary. This is going to be involving you too, The Liver King Downfall, shall we? Yeah, there you go. All right. It's been a great week. Thank you all so much. There'll be a great Friday show for everybody tomorrow, but otherwise, we will see you all next week.

Career changers, including veterans and active duty service members. Your transition starts here. Go from GI to IT in a matter of months. Become a certified cyber warrior with training at My Computer Career. Cyber security specialists are in high demand, offering IT pros great opportunities and a rewarding lifestyle while protecting our people, liberty, and treasured institutions from cyber threats. Deploy your career in IT today. Learn more at mycomputercareer.edu slash CWP.

Skillbridge and other VA benefits are available to those who qualify. This July 4th, celebrate freedom from spills, stains, and overpriced furniture with Anabay. The only machine washable sofa inside and out where designer quality meets budget friendly pricing. Sofas start at just $699 making it the perfect time to upgrade your space. Anabay's

Pet-friendly, stain-resistant, and interchangeable slipcovers are made with high-performance fabric that's built for real life. You'll love the cloud-like comfort of hypoallergenic, high-resilience foam that never needs fluffing and a durable steel frame that stands the test of time.

With modular pieces, you can rearrange any time. It's a sofa that adapts to your life. Now through July 4th, get up to 60% off site-wide at washablesofas.com. Every order comes with a 30-day satisfaction guarantee. If you're not in love, send it back for a full refund. No return shipping, no restocking fees, every penny back. Declare independence from dirty, outdated furniture. Shop now at washablesofas.com.

Over the years of making my true crime podcast, Hell and Gone, I've learned no town is too small for murder.

I'm Katherine Townsend. I've heard from hundreds of people across the country with an unsolved murder in their community. I was calling about the murder of my husband. The murderer is still out there. Each week, I investigate a new case. If there is a case we should hear about, call 678-744-6145. Listen to Hell and Gone Murder Line on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart Podcast. ♪