6/17/24: Israel Uses Medieval Weapon, Hezbollah Tensions Escalate, US Dire Warning On Houthis, Briahna Joy Gray On The Hill Censorship
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So we have some very worrying indications of a potentially massive escalation in Israel's war against Lebanon. But before we get to that...

We also have some really striking video of Israel for some reason using a flaming medieval trebuchet. Trebuchet, is that how you say it, Sagar? Trebuchet. Trebuchet. It's like that, you'll see it in just a second. But for those who are just listening, it's like the catapult thing with like a flaming ball that you might associate with some, you know, Monty Python movie or like Vikings trying to storm a castle hundreds of years ago. Let's take a look at this.

We see several Israeli soldiers hurling a flaming projectile over a concrete wall using the trebuchet, the type of wooden catapult used in the Middle Ages and even before that. What makes this unusual is that Israel takes pride in being a high-tech nation. The Israeli military told us that the use of the trebuchet was an isolated incident aimed at clearing a thicket where Hezbollah militants could hide near the border.

The Israeli reservists we spoke to told us that they saw it being used earlier in the war. All right, Sagar, what can you tell us about the history of this weapon and why Israel might be using it now when, as this narrator points out, they have a lot of high-tech weaponry, thanks to us, by the way? Why you might be using now, I cannot answer that question. We've done some preliminary research here on the show. Catapults were certainly used before.

in the First World War by Indian soldiers, actually in the trenches, and at the Battle of Gallipoli. There were a few that were issued to the British, I guess the royal soldiers fighting for the king that were used, but at a hand level. The actual trebuchet, the only thing I can find, and again, this is back in the

Battle of Tenochtitlan by Hernán Cortés' troops against the Aztecs, and that was in the 1500s. So I believe the trebuchet really went out of fashion as larger siege guns became popular, like big cannons. If you think about, let's say, like the Ottomans marching on Vienna, some of their major conquests in the major 1600s, also in terms of the way the

larger cannons and siege guns basically replaced the usage of the trebuchet, which was really popular, invented by the Chinese, I think, with gunpowder, then used by the Mongols basically against the Chinese, spread across Europe by the Mongols in several battles.

Like Samarkand. There's a few others people can go and look into. So the farthest back that we can find the real confirmed use is the Battle of Tenochtitlan. Although probably somebody can fact check me and find some usage in the interim 300 years. But yeah, there's no explanation. In 2024, there really is no explanation. This is done by geeks at reenactments. This is not something usually used in battle.

Right. So I guess since we already had the medieval siege in Gaza, they just wanted to get all the medieval aesthetic and vibes going as well with this. All right, let's go and move on to the news with regards to potential escalation in Lebanon of Israel's war against Hezbollah. You can put this up on the screen. So

It appears, this is Murtaza Hussein tweeted this out, Biden has set to green light a major Israeli war on Lebanon, the destruction from which is likely to send another wave of mass migration to Europe at a time this is already a crisis. Only France is trying to intervene, but they don't have capacity to stop it. He links...

to an article which I believe is in Haaretz talking about how Defense Minister Yoav Galant rules out joining an initiative promoted by Emmanuel Macron in which France, the US and Israel would form a contact group to work on diffusing escalating tensions with Hezbollah on the northern border.

Quote, as we fight a just war defending our people, France has adopted hostile policies against Israel. Okay. In doing so, France ignores the atrocities committed by Hamas against Israeli children, women, and men. Israel will not be a party to the trilateral framework proposed by France. He writes, let's go on to the next piece because we have the IDF spokesperson, Daniel Hagari, directly threatening, saying that Hezbollah is, quote, bringing us to the brink of escalation.

Here's the full quote. Hezbollah's increasing aggression is bringing us to the brink of what could be a wider escalation, one that could have devastating consequences for Lebanon and the entire region. That sounds very much like a threat. He goes on to say, when we say we will not let October 7 happen again on any one of our borders, we mean it. One way or another, we will ensure the safe and

secure return of Israelis to their homes in northern Israel. That is not up for negotiation. So, Sagar, as best I can tell, you have a very familiar dynamic playing out here, which is the Biden administration continues to send envoys to the region to try to, hey, let's not do this full war against Hezbollah. This could be really bad. But Bibi Netanyahu, who now, by the way, this morning just officially dissolved the war cabinet after Benny Gantz exited.

Bibi Netanyahu has every intention and every political motivation to keep going. And so even if the U.S. sort of like meekly accepts, at the end of the day, they're not going to do anything, which effectively serves as a green light for Israel, as it has in every other instance up to this point. Well, it's very troubling, as we always say. This would basically make the Gaza war look like child's play because Hezbollah is an actual weapon.

very strong military force. I mean, it's effectively stronger than many nation states that are out there. Let's put this up there on the screen. As you alluded to, Crystal, the Israeli military say that they, Hezbollah is bringing them to the brink of escalation. But if you read further, there has been tit for tat action that they cite within this piece for basically the course of the entire war, all the way back

from the very first week. Remember that huge portions, and this is what they talk about in here, of Northern Israel remain evacuated. It's the largest internal evacuation in the history of the state of Israel. You also have a lot more deaths really per capita

of the IDF as a result of Hezbollah fire than anything compared to Hamas. Now, somehow, there's been some sort of cap on the violence there between the two sides for now. Nasrallah famously gave that speech, I believe it was in the early days of the war. He basically said, we're not gonna be party to the war in Gaza, but the Israeli military is also using kind of the cover of all of this chaos and conflict

to go and to annihilate Hezbollah targets, both in Lebanon and in Syria, which then invites some of the tit-for-tat escalation. And as a result, a lot of IDF soldiers have actually died as a result of this fire. So it's only really a matter of time if we're gonna continue to continue the strikes here in Lebanon to drive up the temperature that some sort of miscalculation is effectively inevitable in all of this. And it's clear too that it may not even be miscalculation on the Israeli side. The Bibi's party, they,

want this war. They want to use this as a final opportunity to erase all of Israel's so-called threats here in the region, or at least, you know, with regards to Hezbollah, they want to continue the war in the momentum. You can almost think of it like invading Iraq after

after what happened in 9/11, honestly a perfect example, political purposes using it as cover, but it could be only that in this case, that this time the US could actually try and to keep this, you know, or to avoid this conflict, it doesn't seem like all the stops are ready to be put there. And if that doesn't happen now, then it's very likely it'll just happen already.

Yeah, I mean, just as a reminder to people, Hezbollah did not take hostages. Hezbollah was not involved in October 7th. And this...

So conflicts between Israel and Hezbollah will not end until the Gaza onslaught is over. And U.S. officials are acknowledging that as well. I mean, that is the core of the problem here. We're going to talk about the Houthis in the next block. That is the core of the issue there as well. It's the core of the escalation, which has been very frightening vis-a-vis Iran as well, combined with direct Israeli outrageous provocations with striking the Iranian embassy in Damascus.

So not only is there this risk of a broader and even more deadly war, there's also the risk of the US getting pulled directly into this, which again is something that Bibi Netanyahu very much wants. And I don't think anyone can feel confident that Joe Biden has the fortitude

to reject or withstand. So all very, very troubling indications and something to keep a close eye on. At the same point, Benny Gantz, who I mentioned before, he was in the war cabinet. He just recently resigned over his concerns about the lack of a hostage deal, the lack in particular of a plan for the

quote unquote, day after in Gaza. And the fact that Bibi Netanyahu is doing everything for his own political gain versus the interests of even Israeli citizens. He's been giving some interviews, putting a finer point on some of these realities

that he saw up close and personal serving in the war cabinet. We can put this up on the screen. He confirmed that Beebe blocked his own hostage deal, stating he approved a plan to return hostages and did nothing to promote it due to political considerations.

Netanyahu did not advance the matter strongly enough. So just to underscore again, Benny Gantz, who is no dove here, who very much supported the war as part of the workout and has no issue with the level of civilian death and mayhem,

says that Bibi is one of the key actors responsible for blocking a hostage deal that could bring those Israeli hostages home. So to hear that from him, very noteworthy. He also apparently refuted claims of being a mouthpiece for the Biden administration, saying, quote, I am not an envoy of the U.S. government. Stop inventing such claims. He also expressed regret that Bibi didn't utilize his connections with the Americans, noting, quote, they in the U.S. were impressed with how I am more militant

than Netanyahu's, though, you know, that's the nature of the debate there. Him positioning himself as more warlike than Bibi Netanyahu himself. Reflecting on the day after a potential resolution, Gantz said, Palestinian forces will receive international support. We told Bibi that we needed to deal with the day after because it is a complex matter that won't solve itself. The fact we didn't deal with it only delayed the security

Meanwhile, a vacuum and chaos will be created and the soldiers will continue to fight, which of course for Bibi and others who want to forestall any sort of reckoning over their own security failures on October 7th and Bibi who wants to also keep his own ass out of prison facing potential corruption charges.

Continuing the war is, of course, the point. And the chaos and the need to go back in only helps to serve Bibi Netanyahu, even as it does not serve, certainly, it was disastrous for Palestinians in Gaza, disastrous for the world and the potential escalation that we were just talking about vis-a-vis Iran and Lebanon, et cetera, and also disastrous for

for Israelis and their current and future security situation and their goal, which is overwhelmingly shared by the Israeli population of returning the hostages. Yeah, that's going to be the major political weapon against him is that any acknowledgement by people who are in the war cabinet and now the war cabinet has been dissolved who are like, yeah, he didn't do enough to free the hostages. That is just an absolute electoral massive problem for him in any future election. But

But there has to be a future election, and that is something that he's working over time. A war would be very good for him. Can you say, oh, it's not the right time? We could talk about that after the war. It's day 254 of the war, or whatever, 255, I guess now, at this point. So at what point, at what point, BB, are we allowed to discuss this? He wants to make sure that point is as far away as possible. Every day, he gets to live another day.

Yes. So at the same time, I had to share with you some of the tenor of discourse on Hebrew language television on Israel's most watched news show. We can put this up on the screen because it's in Hebrew. Let me just read. And by the way, this was confirmed by Haaretz and other Israeli outlets that this is what was actually said. This individual, who is a former Likud MP, invokes Hitler to

to justify Gaza resettlement. He says, as Hitler said, I cannot live if one Jew is left. We can't live here if one Islamo-Nazi remains in Gaza. So Sagar, we now have an analyst here, former Likud, which is again, Benjamin Netanyahu's party, former Likud MP,

invoking Hitler's ideology to justify his view of what should be done in Gaza. Like, I mean, it speaks for itself. True stranger than fiction, I guess you could say. And on the most popular news show also in the channel. This is what I always am shocked by with them is like, they really don't think that there are people who speak both languages and who are opposed to them. They can't do hit a very basic translate, but yeah, apparently they think, I mean, look,

at the same time, like they've mostly gotten away with whatever they want to so far. So why should they care about any supposed consequences? Yes, that's right. I mean, while we need to have like a national crisis every time there's a sign on a college campus that's, you know, a little off-putting to some community or another. And this guy goes on and is literally like, hey, we should do to Gaza what Hitler did to the Jews. He had it right with that. It's like, what? How do we

How did we get here? And I think it's not that they don't realize that we can hear them. It's that, as you said, there's been total impunity. None of this has been with any sort of real consequence, at least vis-a-vis the U.S. And second of all, for whatever domestic constituency this individual is trying to please, they probably agreed. Yeah, they like it. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, he knows the audience he's talking to. So, you know, for his own domestic political purposes and to get invited back on what is apparently Israel's most watched news show, this is the type of outrageous insanity that you put out into the world.

Hi, I'm Katie Lowes. And I'm Guillermo Diaz. And now we're back with another season of our podcast, Unpacking the Toolbox, where Guillermo and I will be rewatching the show. To officially unpack season three of Scandal. Unpredictable. You don't see it coming. It's a wild, wild ride. The twists and turns in season three. Mesmerizing. But also,

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Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is.

I think he was like, oh, yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down-and-out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa, I said the words.

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Let's go ahead and move on to the Houthis because we haven't talked about them for a while. But meanwhile, Houthi action is ongoing with regard to attacking ships in the shipping lanes to try to put pressure in order to hopefully eventually end Israel's onslaught onto Gaza, which doesn't seem to be moving in the right direction. News Nation actually did an interesting report

talking about how significant a threat they've been, how effective they've been, as well as take a listen to what they found. The message from the United States Navy is clear. The whole world is underestimating these Iran-backed Houthi rebels in Yemen. They say that they are capable, they are well-armed, and what is currently happening in the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aden is unprecedented and unlike anything they've seen before. All aboard!

How legitimate are their capabilities? Yeah, I think people undersell the Houthis' capability. This anti-ship ballistic missile is a game changer. They're a legitimate terrorist organization, and they conduct attacks almost daily out here.

The Houthis have captured a ship, they have sunk a ship, they've also killed three sailors here in this region.

They've got a lot of advanced weaponry that they've purchased or been delivered from their friends in Iran, and they have no problem using it. I think our objective is to save lives, to put it very simply. So we just saw what's behind this door, which is the Combat Information Center. From the second that one of those missiles is fired at this ship, there's a lot of decisions that need to be made: how to intercept, where to intercept, what kind of tools to be used.

All of those decisions, in some cases, have to be made in a matter of seconds. You know that there are very legitimate adversaries that are on the ground. What goes through your mind? I try to pretty much just think about the mission itself. Launching into the pitch black night at like 2:00 a.m., going in there knowing that we were the tip of the spear in the case. You have nearly 5,000 souls aboard here. What keeps you up at night?

But I'll tell you this, I keep the Houthis up at night. So I appreciate News Nation doing that report because here we are in, you know, an ongoing multi-month long hot war effectively with the Houthis and it gets very little coverage and it does pose, you know, grave risk to our service members and also comes at a great

costs. We tried to look for how much we've spent on this. And we have some dated numbers here, which tells you how much interest most of the process has taken in this. You can put this up on the screen. This is from back in April. We had already spent a billion dollars just in munitions, by the way, not even counting, you know, the cost of this mobilization, countering the Houthi attacks. So, you know, yet another source of money, of risk,

potential escalation that all stems from our inability to exert any influence. I shouldn't say inability, our unwillingness to exert any influence vis-a-vis Israel. Yes. It also, that's, look, that's a billion dollars just in munitions. There's actually appropriated 2.4 extra billion just to cover the cost of replacing munitions. One issue I have with this is that just seems like you can snap your fingers and these munitions can just

be replaced. This is extremely valuable technology, which we are learning in the Ukraine conflict takes years to reproduce as a result of the dead industrial base here in the United States. So every time that we are firing a missile, basically on behalf of the Israelis, we are taking one away from ourselves because

that could be used in a conflict which is actually relevant to our interests. So it's over a billion dollars. By the way, the cost is approximately $1.5 million per day to run the USS Eisenhower, approximately. So just do the math. It's been out there for what? A couple hundred days?

That's a couple hundred mil. You got to pay and think about all the maintenance costs. You got to think about the opportunity cost, too, of its deployment there versus maybe somewhere else. You can see here we're basically paying for this entire aircraft carrier, which is designed to protect U.S. commerce on the high seas to protect another nation as it carries out another war.

Americans should ask questions about that. Is that worth it? Do you think that it's worth paying for that? Do you think it's worth putting people in the position where they could potentially be hit by an anti-ship missile if your son or daughter works or is a enlisted member of the US Navy? I would say no, I don't think that's worth it at all. But nobody ever gets to have this conversation. Like you said, the press, News Nation, good for them. They at least went out there

What else do you notice about the News Nation interview, too? There's a high level of concern by the dudes on those ship and the women as well. They're like, this has not gone away. They're like, we're in this shit every single day, and it's not good. And sure, we've won so far, but they only need to win once for it to be a major asymmetric victory. Just don't forget about that. Props to them. They're being put in a tough

But that's my thing, is that the policy leaders here in Washington don't ask any questions about this. They just assume it's fine, blank check. Let's not even think about what it looks like. And then if something bad happens in the future, maybe we can talk about it then. I mean, it just is such a representation of how we are this floundering, overextended empire led by a feeble government.

who is bumbling from one self-made crisis of weakness to another. And, you know, meanwhile, it's not only the political leaders that don't really seem to ask any questions with very few exceptions.

It's also, in fact, they just further this direction. They embrace it wholeheartedly. It's also the press that this is a rare report that we've seen on what is even going on here at this point. So that serves to help keep the public in the dark. And nonetheless, in spite of those efforts,

you still see the public very unhappy with the direction of our unconditional support of Israel. Certainly Biden's base, as we covered before, having a lot of issues with the direction and an overall sentiment of there's

there's always money for more munitions to bomb the Houthis and protect Israel. There's always money to ship to Ukraine, and there's never any interest in actually delivering for us here at home. At the same time, as I was mentioning, you know, the lawmakers who are just, you know, totally invested in this direction with only a few very notable and, you know, brave dissenters at this point, we have yet another push for some sort of codifying anti-Semitism censorship bill that

This one coming directly from Hakeem Jeffries, who of course is the leader of the Democrats in the House. He's calling for passage of the, quote, "Countering Anti-Semitism Act."

And Michael Tracy, who does such a great job of digging into these bills and highlighting what they mean, he says this bill would create a new national coordinator to counter anti-Semitism within the executive office of the president to, among other things, quote, counter the spread of anti-Semitism online, i.e., he says, government coercion or censorship, including to impose, and this is the language from the bill, accountability for individuals.

So Hakeem Jeffries, who I'm sure has probably blanket support among the Republicans in the House as well, and overwhelming majority support from the Democrats, looking to, once again, take further steps to directly codify censorship when it comes to their definition of quote-unquote anti-Semitism. And we already know, Sagar, because we've covered the definition that they're using here, it effectively bans criminalization

of the Israeli government and smears those who would be critical as being anti-Semites. Yeah, scary stuff, very scary, especially whenever you combine it with what's happening. Let's go to the next part because what we see here, and this was surprising, it says, for the first time since 1972, the NDAA would automatically

register all males age 18 to 26 for selective service in the military. So for the past 52 years, you're actually required to register on your own, but compliance reportedly had been lagging in terms of selective service. They're switching it to automatic registration, presumably after significant pressure from the military. You read into that what you will.

I'm not going to say it's some grand conspiracy or whatever, but, you know, start to get a little nervous. Anytime we start to see things like this and be like, hey, what's going on? Why? And I can tell you why, which is that enlistment right now is at an all time low in the U.S. military. Young people do not want to enlist. They do not agree either with foreign policy or they think the incentives are not even close to where they were or. And honestly, this is sad, but most people are just way too fat.

to join the military and not physically fit. So you have a combination. It's like a poly crisis. And it's not me saying this. You can ask any individual service and look at their reports to Congress about enlistment. What do you do? Well, you start to put pressure for selective service. And let's just say the last time that we saw this in the 1960s, it didn't go so well. We'll see how it works out.

Sagar, you'll love this. It was a Democrat who was sort of leading this charge to get this into the NDAA. And by the way, the expectation is that the Senate has other issues with the NDAA, not necessarily this one, but there's an expectation they're not going to take up this bill, just to be clear. But you'll love this. Democrat who is pushing this uses social justice language.

To justify it, she says this will allow us to rededicate resources, basically that means money, towards readiness and mobilization rather than towards education and advertising campaigns driven to register people. And she says it will ensure any future military draft is fair and equitable. Oh, good. Yes, that's exactly right. That's what we need. We need an equitable draft. I mean... That's right, yes.

If we're going to have a draft, I'm in favor of an equitable draft, but I'd rather just have no draft. How about we just not have a draft? How about that one? It's just incredible. You can't make it up, as you said. Just, wow. Okay. All right. We got Brianna Joy Gray standing by. Let's get to it.

Hi, I'm Katie Lowe's and I'm Guillermo Diaz. And now we're back with another season of our podcast, unpacking the toolbox where Guillermo and I will be rewatching the show to officially unpack season three of scandal. Unpredictable. You don't see it coming. It's a wild, wild ride. The twists and turns in season three mesmerizing, but

Also, we get to hang out with all of our old scandal friends like Bellamy Young, Scott Foley, Tony Goldwyn, Debbie Allen, Kerry Washington. So many people. Even more shocking assassinations from Papa and Mama Pope. And yes, Katie and I's famous teeth-pulling scene that kicks off a romance.

And it was Peak TV. This is new scandal content for your eyes, for your ears, for your hearts, for your minds. Well, suit up, gladiators. Grab your big old glass of wine and prepare yourselves for even more behind the scenes. Listen to Unpacking the Toolbox on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling, as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is.

I think he was like, oh, yeah, things come and go. But with me, it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down-and-out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa, I said the words. Yeah.

that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm Angie Martinez. Check out my podcast where I talk to some of the biggest athletes, musicians, actors in the world. We go beyond the headlines and the soundbites to have real conversations about real life, death, love, and everything in between. This life right here, just finding myself, just relaxation, just not feeling stressed, just not feeling pressed. This is what I'm most proud of. I'm proud of Mary because I've been through hell and some horrible things.

that feeling that I had of inadequacy is gone. You're going to die being you. So you got to constantly work on who you are to make sure that the stars align correctly.

Life ain't easy and it's getting harder and harder. So if you have a story to tell, if you've come through some trials, you need to share it because you're going to inspire someone. You're going to give somebody the motivation to not give up, to not quit. Listen to Angie Martinez IRL on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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We are very happy to be joined today by Brianna Joy Gray, formerly of The Hill and currently, most importantly, host of the Bad Faith podcast, which everyone should subscribe to. Bri, it's always great to see you. Always a pleasure, Crystal and Sagar. Good to see you.

So I know you've told this story a number of times at this point, but I would really like you to go back a little bit. We played on our show the alleged eye-rolling incident, along with additional parts of that interview so people could get more of a fulsome sense of it and what you were dealing with there, which I thought was an impossible situation. But I'd love it if you could go back a little bit, because I think our audience is very interested in how these forces of censorship operate over time, and

and the type of pressure that you've been under at the Hill, you know, escalating post-October 7th, but even before that, perhaps.

Yeah, that's a really good question. And I'm glad you're focused there because I do think that in the immediate aftermath of the firing and the kind of rationale that were presented for why it happened, the larger story of the fact that this has been going on for months and months, you know, lighter versions of censorship is kind of a threat of the actual termination has been happening significantly.

You're right. Before October 7th, there were tensions, but most certainly after October 7th. We all know that Katie Halper was let go from the Hill over a year before October 7th for doing a radar in which she described Israel as an apartheid state and cited innumerable sources for that claim, including B'Tselem and other sources within Israel.

And despite the fact that she's a Jewish woman citing Israeli sources for what is broadly considered to be a widely understood and accepted description in the international community, she was told that for non-ideological reasons, right? They claimed it was for non-ideological reasons, that there was something about the form of

the style of her radar that wasn't up to the Hill's standards, and that that meant that she could never appear on the Hill again, not just as a guest host, but in any capacity. So obviously that makes no sense at all. And for me, the writing was on the wall. And when Katie and I talked about what I should do afterward and how I should conduct myself on the Hill afterward, it was very clear that

The only justification for me staying there was to be a sort of a test case and to continue to press those buttons, and particularly the one about coverage, critical coverage of Israel, until what we ultimately knew was going to happen actually did manifest, which is that censorship would come into effect.

And after October 7th, I mean, I've mentioned this in other places, but I think it's really important to note, there were very clear instances of ideological censorship, for example, saying that Norm Finkelstein could not come on the show. And there were softer versions of censorship where frequently the language Israel block was

would be used to describe our Israel coverage for the day. The idea that all of the news that pertained to what was going on in Israel and Gaza related to the crisis could be confined to one segment out of eight to ten that were filmed in a day. And when I push back on that thing, we never describe it as like a Tucker Carlson block or a COVID block or a Joe Rogan block or an economy block or Joe Biden block, any other of the topics that we cover.

If there's an appetite for it, we understand what the audience likes and we understand the news value and we'll weigh those things and decide how to proceed accordingly. They said, oh, no, no, no, we're not really talking about an Israel block, I swear. But again and again, that phraseology would come up and everyone's, speaking of eye rolls, everybody in the room would roll their eyes whenever I proposed topics that were related to Gaza. Yeah.

See, this is very interesting. And just so for clarity purposes, Hill has transferred ownership after Crystal and I left there. So some of this sounds familiar. Some of this is a little bit more explicit. So you're telling us, even though your name is behind you, it's like rising with Brianna and Robbie, that they are explicitly programming and telling you who

who you can have on the show, who you can't have on the show, and explicitly defining blocks. Like for example, people who are watching our show, those what we would refer to as blocks behind us. The only people who decide are Crystal, me, and the editorial team. But for you, you were actually being told and pigeonholed where things were. That's what was happening behind the scenes.

Part of the issue was that the editorial team had changed. So let's say six months ago, the end of last year, beginning of this year, we had a different producer who was lovely and supportive and really knew how to run a good show. And these problems existed more in terms of, you know, Robbie and I would disagree on screen, but to the extent that whatever pressures from, you know, higher up were filtering down, she did a really good job of sort of

being the bulwark against that sort of editorial pressure. Eventually, though, that pressure became so great and the pressure on many staffers became so great that between January and the time that I left,

Everybody was basically either pushed out or fired. So there were legacy guys that worked in the control room, you know, did sound and tech that you two both know. Oh, yeah. That were there in January and were not there by the time that I left. We took a photograph in January when I think an intern was leaving. And Robbie and I remarked months later that zero people in that photograph were still employed at the Hill, except for the two of us.

So there was a big staff change that I think also made it so that the pressures were more acute precisely because the new producer was hired. But they said was it was described as to have more editorial control over the show. You know, I might not be phrasing that exactly, but more editorial input input and to bring rising in line with the Hill message.

kind of writing side, more generally speaking, which as you might remember, I mean, there was always been this tension between The Hill as a new written news source and the tone of it and the very kind of opinion driven show of Rising. And it always has felt like there was almost an embarrassment by The Hill to have this show that was successful, but

but very tonally different than the kind of news they put out over at The Hill. And it seemed like the more they ratcheted up their attempts to bring rising into conformity at the same time that I think my coverage of

Gaza and Israel became particularly a thorn in their side. Well, some of those pieces, even though there's new management now, it was very familiar to us. And, you know, obviously we launched the show, Rising Thugger, and I am part of what was important to us in our worldview is we did position it as a place where you could have dissenting voices and opinions that weren't heard other places. And The Hill has sought both to profit off of that brand, right?

as a free speech platform, but also to corral you in particular, but obviously Katie Halper, I'm sure others as well, into what is actually, you know, a comfortable lane for them. And, you know, I think that's worth spelling out. I love to hear you talk a little bit more about how that operated and if there were other topics where you felt similar pressure, other guests that were similarly banned. But the other thing that I think is worth noting for people here is that, you know, if you look at the Hills Channel,

your segments on Israel were frequently some of the highest performers. So there was a, you know, there were forces operating here. There was an upset here that went beyond, you know, the quote unquote ratings, which from that perspective, it was your coverage was very successful. It was one of the things that people were most interested in hearing from rising at this point in the show's history. So I'd love your sense of, okay, so where does that pressure come from?

Did you face similar pressure on other issues or was it really sort of unique to this organization?

one nation state and one conflict. Yeah, I think that's such an important point because look, you are obviously, you are the blueprint, right, for what we were doing. You know that there are, it's a right-left show. There are obviously topics that you're more excited about, Crystal, from a leftist perspective and Sagar, that you're excited about from a right-leaning perspective. And the same is true for us. And that's why

are topics that, you know, I'm not wild about talking about because frankly, as a leftist, I feel like there are distractions from the material issues that are more core to my political project. But I understand that it's a show and the audience has its own tastes. And I understand even though I don't think it's maybe the most important thing in the world. If, you know, if, if,

Joe Rogan and Tucker Carlson are in a room together somewhere at Davos, then those are all the key words that are going to light up the scoreboard and that we're going to cover it. It's not that big a deal. And you just go along with it and you get a little of your stuff. I get a little of my stuff. That's the compromise, particularly because I know that some of that stuff really, really does well.

You know, I'm not going to sit here and ignore the reality that they're running a business and I am benefiting from the ability to be on this platform and to say what I want to say, what I want to say it. But then there's, you know, there's the give and take. What was so frustrating for me in particular was that the things that are of interest to me were frequently not the big ticket winners, right?

Me covering some Starbucks labor dispute isn't necessarily going to get us 200,000 views. But when it came to Israel-Palestine for once, my kind of ideological interest happened to align where the audience's ideological interests were.

And suddenly all the arguments that I had been confronted with about why we need to cover X, Y, and Z issue because it's good for business went out the window. And they seem to be working at cross purposes with their own economic agenda. And this went even further because there are some other shows at The Hill that are less successful.

this is no slight to anybody who's working there. I encourage those shows to keep working at it and trying to be successful. That's fine. But we were constantly being told that there were limited resources to hire staff that had been let go or who had left because of

how hard it was to work there with very little staff support, right? It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy. People leave, you don't hire new staff. It becomes even more difficult for the old staff, the remaining staff to keep up with content. They had higher expectations on them without higher pay. And so then they leave and it was a cycle that was building over time. We were told we couldn't hire new staff at the same time that we saw other shows that weren't as

just objectively and weren't bringing in the money being staffed up and resources being devoted to them in a way that didn't seem like it made very much sense. And what it always felt like to us

was that because of the embarrassment around Rising, they were hoping that one of the more kind of typical stayed new shows would become more successful and ultimately they would be justified in cutting ties with Rising. And I do wonder sometimes if they really even care about the success of the show, if they're secretly hoping that doing things like firing Katie, firing me, firing Kim will kill the show because then they have a justification for not just trashing what is so unethical

obviously a valuable property. And one other point to the editorial control aspect of it. I was told when I joined the show that no matter what, the radars were sacrosanct, right? The video essays were sacrosanct. And in fact, about a year ago, I had agreed to go from three days a week to four, right?

If I didn't have to do radars because they're very time consuming. Yeah, that's a lot of work. Yeah, that's a fine trade-off. But as they started trying to censor the Israel coverage, I went back to doing a lot of radars because I felt like that was the only way I could get more about what was going on in Gaza into the lineup every day. Right? I didn't want to, but I felt frankly compelled to.

At that point, I started getting pushback from the new producer as to what was even going into my radars. And that really became a tipping point in the source of a lot of behind the scenes arguing where it seemed like every single thing that happened on the show off off scene, not even to mention what's happening on screen with Robbie was so contentious and so stressful that it made it very, very, very difficult to put on a show.

That's crazy. Yeah, I mean, I've heard very similar things, Brianna. It's not just about you. There's a lot of stuff I've been hearing from behind the scenes, like you just said, about censorship, about meddling, about some of the control. And I think, look, this could be tedious. It almost is inside baseball. But I think that people want to hear this because this is what's actually happening.

This is why Crystal and I left, just by the way. But it's also, this is how every network news show operates. This is just more in the open because Brianna, you are somebody who also has an alternative path. You can speak out about this without suffering genuine repercussions. So what does it feel like now to be on the other side? Do you feel more liberated? Are you happier? And how are you thinking about the future?

I mean, I will say I am very lucky in the grand scheme of things, but it's also true that I got hit with hundreds of spam emails addressed to Patreon. They were sent to my bad faith account, I think unwittingly, but addressed to Patreon with this form letter begging Patreon to kick me off of the platform, right? And we have seen that kind of censorship from some of these kind of host platforms in the past, depending on what the ideological valence of the complaint is. So it is concerning, right?

that unless you're fully independent with your own infrastructure the way that you guys have, that there are still ways for people to attempt to try to de-

de-platform you. I don't know if that's the right word in this context, but you're not entirely safe. I'd also say that, I mean, I sat down with Don Lemon at some point last week, and he revealed in the course of that interview that he's had other people from, I guess, CNN, the mainstream milieu where he operated for so many years, reach out and tell him that they've never felt more constrained, they never felt more afraid about talking about an issue than

than they have about Israel-Palestine post-October 7th, and that they find themselves going over their segments afterward, wondering if they said the wrong thing and going through it with a fine-tooth comb, because they're feeling at these legacy news outlets an incredible amount of pressure not to say something that's too critical of Israel. So to your point, Sagar, absolutely, this is

par for the course for your average news outlet. And it's why I think genuinely independent outlets like yours are so important. But yes, I am very grateful to continue to be able to do what I've been doing for years long before Rising, which is my own podcast, my own show, Bad Faith. And I'm frankly looking forward to having a little bit more space to focus on the podcast and to also focus on writing and some other more creative things that have

sat by the wayside because Rising was just so time-consuming. I have zero doubt you're going to continue to be phenomenally successful. I know you're probably going to be way happier too if our experience is any guide. So you may look back at this and say, you know what, in the end, this was the best thing that ever happened to me. But...

You know, we follow and you follow all of these stories of censorship across the country. I mean, it does really seem like this is the number one issue on which cancel culture, censorship, deplatforming is the greatest threat, not to mention all of these bills and resolutions that are passing through Congress to effectively codify and embrace that censorship on both sides of the aisle.

I'm sure you also saw this, this Israeli Holocaust scholar who is now, Roz Siegel, who's now being denied his position because he was critical in his calling Israel's assault on Gaza a genocide, which by the way, the ICJ is investigating. Numerous other scholars have called it that as well. It is in fact the majority position of

Biden voters that what Israel is doing in Gaza constitutes a genocide. So in some ways, even though you're going to be fine because you have a platform, you're phenomenally talented, we're going to make sure, you know, to support you in all the ways we can as well. There are going to be a lot of other people out there who are

perhaps more junior in their career, perhaps don't have that established platform, you know, and self-censor because they see what happened to you. They see what happens to these professors, Mehdi Hassan, other media personalities, Katie Halper, who have paid a cost for being outspoken on this specific issue. Yes, and Mark Lamont Hill years ago. I mean, what's so ironic is this has been going on for a really long time. All we're seeing is a kind of, um, uh,

exponential examples, exponential growth in the number of examples that have come out since October 7th. And I think in some ways, the crackdown is probably

opening up the eyes of a lot of people who really didn't realize how much of a red line this issue is. Biden doesn't have a red line, but talking about this in American politics is absolutely a red line. And I think it's frankly having a radicalizing effect that is going in the opposite direction of the Hasbara, which is to say, I mean, even, you

as much as Robbie and I debated this, I mean, what is Robbie to take away from the idea that this is the issue that ultimately got me forced off the show? Does that change your perspective as someone who has defended Israel about the incongruity of Israel's position that it's a democracy and that it respects free speech and it's the only democracy in the Middle East? To see the allied kind of social media forces, the reporting about the Israeli government branch that

has officially launched this propaganda campaign to influence US lawmakers and to create a culture online that being critical of Israel is bad for business. I mean, how can that not influence you to be increasingly critical of Israel going forward and increasingly skeptical of why it is that all of that is necessary to continue to have the dominance and influence that they've had in American politics for generations?

Well, Breed, tell people where they can follow you and how they can support you and any ideas you're going to continue, obviously, working on the podcast and building that out. Any other projects that you've got in the works you want to cue people on? I don't want to commit to anything just yet. That's fair.

Because I don't want to, you know, my mouth to pristine my actual ability to double dab and make the content that I have planned. But you can follow everything that I'll be doing. I'll be announcing new stuff on my podcast. You can watch free episodes on YouTube at Bad Faith YouTube. And you can subscribe at patreon.com slash bad faith podcast to get an additional episode. I drop on Mondays. Today is an episode with Jeffrey Sachs.

which is very good and I highly recommend. And free clips of the premium Patreon episodes are also put on Bad Faith YouTube. So be sure to go there and subscribe and follow the channel so you can get those as well. Excellent. We'll have links to that in the description. So there you go. Thank you, guys. Brianna, it's so great to see you. And as I said, I know you're going to do well. And I'm excited for this next chapter for you. Thank you both. I really appreciate it. Always a pleasure.

- Our pleasure. - All right, guys, thank you so much for watching. As we said, we'll have links to the description for Brianna down in the bottom. Otherwise, Crystal, you'll be back in the studio tomorrow and we'll see you then.

Hi, I'm Katie Lowes. And I'm Guillermo Diaz. And we're the hosts of Unpacking the Toolbox, the Scandal Rewatch podcast where we're talking about all the best moments of the show. Mesmerizing. But also, we get to hang out with all of our old Scandal friends like Bellamy Young, Scott Foley, Tony Goldwyn, Debbie Allen, Kerry Washington. Well, suit up, gladiators. Grab your big old glass of wine and prepare yourselves for an even more behind-the-scenes Scandal.

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