Trump’s National Security Adviser Mike Waltz
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Terrorist groups and rogue states have been taking Americans hostage, and they've only seen upside the last four years. They take one like the Brittany Griner case, and they get one of the world's most notorious arms dealers out for it. So why not take more? Why not take as many as you can and see what you get? With President Trump, he made it very clear very early on, not just with Hamas, with groups around the world, there'll be nothing but downside.

And after January 20th, any deal that they thought was on the table is only going to get worse. And this is about imposing consequences for those who would do this type of horrendous act like we saw on October 7th, who were take Americans or allies hostage. Right now, sadly, there's only upside with President Trump. He made it clear there'll be nothing but downside. And I'm convinced that's why you're seeing this movement.

It's 5.30 p.m. on Tuesday, January 14th here in New York City. It's 12.30 a.m. on Wednesday, January 15th in Israel as Israelis turn to a new day and follow minute to minute any news about the very likely hostage deal.

We here at Call Me Back are following things closely and we promise an emergency episode the moment we have concrete news to analyze. We've heard from a number of you about...

calls for an emergency episode. Again, we don't want to engage in just idle speculation. We want to make sure there's something concrete to report and analyze, and we will do that as soon as there is. And speaking of concrete news to analyze, our guest today is Congressman Mike Waltz, who is a colonel retired in the National Guard. He is a Green Beret who

served numerous tours in combat. He worked on counterterrorism policy in the Bush White House, and he was a policy advisor at the Pentagon, serving under Secretaries Rumsfeld and Gates.

And until this coming Monday, Mike Waltz is a congressman from Florida. I say until this Monday because as President Trump is sworn in, so will Mike Waltz be sworn in for his new assignment as the president's national security advisor. Mike graduated from the Virginia Military Institute with honors, and he served 27 years in the U.S. Army and National Guard.

Part of that obviously was as a reservist. After being commissioned as an Army Lieutenant, Mike graduated Ranger School and was selected for the elite Green Berets, serving worldwide as a Special Forces officer with multiple combat tours, as I mentioned, in Afghanistan, the Middle East, and Africa. For his service in combat, Mike was awarded four Bronze Stars, including two for valor.

During his service in Congress, he has made national security the focus of his work, having served on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, the Armed Services Committee, and the Intelligence Committee, and also chaired a very important subcommittee on military readiness on the Armed Services Committee. He's also the author of several books, including Warrior Diplomat,

A Green Beret's battles from Washington to Afghanistan, and most recently, hard truths. Think and lead like a Green Beret. Mike Waltz on the hostage deal and how he thinks about the U.S.-Israel relationship in the new administration. This is Call Me Back. And I am pleased to welcome...

to call me back for the first time, Congressman Mike Waltz from the state of Florida, soon to be National Security Advisor to the incoming Trump administration. Congressman, thanks for being here. Yeah, good to be with you, Dan, always. I want to start with what we're all following minute to minute, which is news about a possible hostage deal. And we all know that as we're recording this, there's some real-time developments happening, so I'm sensitive to that.

That said, based on what we know, because sources out of Israel are reporting that it's basically a done deal, in terms of how we got to this point, from your standpoint, how did it come together?

Well, there's a couple of things. One, we know that an overwhelming amount of Israelis support some type of deal, want the hostages out. But really how I think we got to this point is the leadership shown by Israel and by Bibi Netanyahu. Because what I think, in my strong opinion, what was holding things up in the past was that Hamas thought that the cavalry would come from the north, that would come from Lebanon with Hezbollah. And

One day, the story is going to fully be told by what I think was the most spectacular covert operation in modern history, the pager and walkie-talkie that decimated Hezbollah, not in one, but in two strikes, coupled by the incursion into southern Lebanon to take down the tunnel and the rocket infrastructure, coupled with

Taking out Nasrallah, which for quite some time, everyone said was too provocative, too escalatory, would just result in absolute chaos. And the decapitation of Hezbollah not only has Lebanon now, I think, with an amazing moment,

to move out from under the thumb of Hezbollah and Iran, but it has Hamas completely isolated. We just saw the fall of Assad in Syria. I mean, we are seeing a cascade of positive effects that has the region, I think, in one of the potentially best places it's been

in quite some time. So that left Hamas with no option, but to enter into what I do not think, I mean, it's look, I don't like any deal with these sick, evil sons of, uh, of whatever's and we should never, ever reward the horrendous acts of October 7th, but you know, they've been decimated too, uh, with Ania gone with Senwar gone. There's so much of their leadership gone. Uh, I think net net, uh,

And Hamas is in a terrible place as well. So Hamas was isolated and under pressure. And I agree with everything you're saying, although there's also this added input, the big change that many in Israeli circles are saying, which was the statements coming out of the Trump effect. So can you talk a little bit about that? No, that's right. And what don't we know about the Trump effect? Well, look, I think the part is to put it in context. You know, there are...

Terrorist groups and rogue states have been taking Americans hostage, and they've only seen upside the last four years. They take one like the Brittany Griner case, and they get one of the world's most notorious arms dealers out for it. So why not take more? Why not take as many as you can and see what you get? With President Trump, he made it very clear very early on, not just with Hamas, with groups around the world, there'll be nothing but downside.

And after January 20th, any deal that they thought was on the table is only going to get worse. And this is about imposing consequences for those who would do this type of horrendous act like we saw on October 7th, who were take Americans or allies hostage.

Right now, sadly, there's only upside with President Trump. He made it clear there'll be nothing but downside. And I'm convinced that's why you're seeing this movement. And from your perspective, if this deal goes through and we enter what's characterized as the first phase, does that effectively mean the war is over? Does a ceasefire mean that Israel's

Its work is done in Gaza for the foreseeable future. Well, I certainly think Hamas would like to believe that. But we've been clear that Gaza has to be fully demilitarized. Hamas has to be destroyed to the point that it cannot reconstitute.

and that Israel has every right to fully protect itself. So all of those pieces, all of those objectives are still very much in place. Look, I mean, October 7th was a terrible day. They put everybody in a terrible position, including the Palestinian people of Gaza, whom they regularly hide behind and are willing to sacrifice and have sacrificed for their own sick ends and objectives.

And so we need to get our people out, and then we need to achieve those objectives in this war. And you've said every member of Hamas should be killed. Pete Hegseth today at the confirmation hearing was asked by Senator Cotton something related to Israel, and he said every last member of Hamas should be killed. So from your standpoint, the incoming administration's policy is still Hamas cannot have a role in governing Israel.

Got lots can't have a role. ISIS doesn't have a role. Al Qaeda doesn't have a role. No, of course not. And it and it astounds me that.

People try to put them in some type of special category. These are hostage-taking, murderous, rapist, torturers that never should ever have any role in governing. Some, you know, some will try to kind of point to the practicality. I don't think any of that is practical. None of it's acceptable. And we shouldn't subject the Palestinian people to that either. We shouldn't sell them short. They're

know, look, many of them, as we know, have been brainwashed, but we'll never get to a better future. We'll never get to a truly stable region if we don't carve out this cancer. There's been reports that Steve Witkoff, the Middle East envoy, had a meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu over the weekend, and you and your colleagues in the incoming administration have been very hands-on, and I should say very coordinated, in fairness with the outgoing administration.

And again, I know you have been saying that you've been working closely with the outgoing administration, particularly on this issue. Secretary Blinken just gave an interview at the New York Times that I want to play a clip of, which I'll play right now. There have been two major impediments, and they both go to what drives Hamas. One has been whenever there has been public daylight between the United States and Israel and the perception that pressure was growing on Israel,

We've seen it. Hamas has pulled back from agreeing to a ceasefire and the release of hostages. So you heard Mike in that interview, Secretary Blinken say that since October 7th, his experience has been whenever there seemed to be pressure from the U.S. on Israel that played out publicly, Hamas dug in and used it to its advantage.

Whatever pressure may have been applied to Israel in recent days, it sounds like it was done very discreetly. And just generally speaking, is that your sense, too, that better not to have flashpoints of disagreement in public? Yeah, well, absolutely. And I think every time, you know, Hamas got some kind of news feed that you had anti-Semitic protests sympathetic to them and their cause on campuses all over the United States,

then they believed that even if it meant sacrificing their own people to turn world opinion against Israel, that it was working. So why enter a deal? But I'm a little perplexed

by Entity Blinken's statement, or maybe you call it an omission, when you have Vice President Harrison, her first act as a presidential candidate, boycott Prime Minister Netanyahu's joint address to Congress, when you see this kind of public scolding in press conferences, when you see Senator Schumer essentially call for regime change in a freely elected democracy and an ally, I think that played into Hamas's hands as well. So, you know, again...

admission statement. I'm not sure what that is, but I think we're in a very good place because the Israeli government didn't listen sometimes to the not-so-good advice coming out of this administration. And now we are where we are, where Iran is in the worst position it's been. And that's not to say this administration didn't help with shooting down the missiles. They didn't help with arms, but they also tapped the brakes as well in a way that I just did not find rational. So I

Yeah, it's a very mixed bag, but we are in a better place and we plan to get our people out and then carry this effort forward. And when you say our people, obviously there are Americans being held, you know, God willing, the first phase of this deal will be completed, but there'll still be two thirds of the hostages left.

still there and you know how do you know this is the reality those poor people israeli-americans and a number of international so they don't get talked about quite a you know quite as much have been in those tunnels and the most horrendous of conditions

We know being used as human shields, being sexually abused, just awful. They all have been there longer than the U.S. hostages in 1979 in our embassy in Iran. And sadly, the reality is,

A number of them have since deceased, either executed or just succumbed to the horrendous conditions. We will make every effort to get everyone out, living or deceased, so that they can have a proper burial. And those have been brutally tough negotiations. I hate the fact that we even have to enter into them with a terrorist group like Hamas, but we need to get our people out and then prosecute our objectives in this conflict.

You have talked a lot about how, and I agree with you, that the region is transformed in a way. I mean, I can't think of a time when Israel's geopolitical position in the region, for many of the reasons that you said, has been better than in any moment. Maybe you have to go back to the Six-Day War in 1967. Obviously, you know, the culmination, if you will, of this transformation would be normalization deal with Saudi Arabia. From an incoming Trump National Security Team's perspective,

How much of a priority is that? And do you really see that as something that's very, you know, practically achievable in the relative near term?

Well, it's a huge priority and, Dan, let's call it what it is. It's the next round of the Abraham Accords. I've always kind of felt like this current administration shifted their language to call it normalization rather than what it is, which is, I think, a tremendous historic region-changing agreement between Saudi Arabia and Israel. And it's one of the reasons I firmly believe that Iran lit the fuse with Hamas to blow this thing up because they were very close.

So that is the objective. Let's get our people out. Let's eliminate these terrorist organizations. And then let's start talking political solutions, economic solutions. I want to, by the end of President Trump's term, to be talking about infrastructure projects, water, rail, fiber, data centers. And the more we're talking about those big things, the less we'll be talking about

in my view, these historic agreements. Because, you know, regardless of your religion or background, you want a better life for your family, for your children, and for your future prospects. And I think we get, the more we get to that, the more we can put all of those other grievances in our rearview mirror. That's, I think that's the hope. And it's absolutely achievable, especially with a dealmaker like President Trump. Let's talk about Iran. It's an issue that you've been very active on in your years in Congress.

You've been a thought leader on it, not just a policy leader on it. Obviously, President Trump took some pretty extraordinary steps during his first term on Iran, maximum pressure campaign. Just to sort of set the table, is it your view that the administration's policy is that it is unacceptable for Iran to develop a nuclear weapons capability?

It's unacceptable. That's been President Trump's position really from day one. And if you think the region is destabilized, brutalized and in conflict now with, you know, Iran activating its ring of fire from the Houthis to Hezbollah to Hamas.

to the militias in Syria, the militias in Northern Iraq. Imagine what it would do under a nuclear umbrella, not to mention its own repeated promise to turn Israel into a piece of glass, what they call in Ayatollah's words, a one-bomb state. We should take that incredibly seriously.

And just for every American to appreciate, any type of regional nuclear exchange will be catastrophic for the entire world. It won't be isolated there. Further, if Iran does achieve a weaponized, not just the enrichment, but an actual weaponized

nuclear missile, the entire region will explode in a nuclear arms race. So it's just absolutely unacceptable. The thing the regime cares about the most is power and money. Uh, and that's why we will go back to maximum pressure. Uh,

And that's why we'll make it very clear. And they should absolutely believe President Trump when they say when he says a nuclear program is unacceptable. I'm not going to get ahead of anyone on how we get there, but all options are on the table. Yeah, all options on the table. Thank you.

So the previous administration attracted a lot of controversy for its conditioning supply of certain munitions and certain weapons to Israel. Obviously, what was in the news publicly reported were the 2,000-pound bombs that were withheld.

In terms of a day one President Trump has sworn in, will we see an end to playing games with conditioning military assets and basic military supplies to Israel? We're a few days out. I'm not going to preview everything on day one, but you're going to see us give a

you're not going to see this administration tapping the brakes to make sure Israel can arm itself. And what just didn't make sense to me, you had the administration saying, well, you don't need those kind of bombs to defend yourself in Gaza. So therefore, well, you know where you do need them? You needed them in southern Lebanon with these massive tunnel complexes, which by the way, were literally found within eyesight of the UN mission in Lebanon. That's a whole other conversation in Lebanon.

future of UNIFIL there. You did need them in Syria when they're taking out chemical weapons complexes with the fall of the regime. You need them in northern Iraq where those militias were participating in direct attacks on Israel. And you certainly needed them down with the Houthis as they attack

international shipping and that are not only destabilizing global commercial flows or destabilizing Egypt, which depends on the revenue through the Suez Canal. So it just didn't make sense to me. And I don't think you're going to see that from this administration.

One area that you worked on in Congress, you obviously were focused on deepening Israel's strategic relationship on the military side, on the R&D side, on the AI front between the U.S. and Israel. I think what we've seen over the last, since October 7th, tragically, I mean, Israel was thrust into this, that in many respects, you can see the future of warfare playing out in Israel, around Israel, the seven fronts that Israel has been fighting on.

And given what Israel dedicates to its defense spending, like twice as much as just about any other American ally as a percentage of GDP, is extraordinary. I mean, Israel is probably one of, if not the most capable ally the US has when it comes to war fighting. How much of an asset do you think this is now going forward? It's tragic, like I said, that Israel has to do this, but we are where we are. Israel is in the situation where it does have to invest the way it does.

Do you see that as a benefit to the United States in terms of our partnership with Israel? Oh, sure. And look, it's that exchange of intelligence. It's the exchange of defense technology. But it's also, you know, not to throw too much love at you, Dan, it's sitting on top of the startup nation. And I wrote in my own book on how national service is

where you learn leadership, discipline, teamwork, followership at a very young age with tremendous responsibility, how that is a natural bridge to entrepreneurship. And one of the reasons you've seen such an explosion of tech startups in Tel Aviv that is

incredibly mutually beneficial. You've seen the investment flows going back and forth, the technology flows. And then from a national security standpoint, we've seen that having that precise intelligence coupled with AI, especially in cyber, both offensive and defensive, is just critical to our modern economy. So there are, we could probably spend another hour

on all of the different kind of angles and benefits and layers here of how both nations in line with their values, in line with their history, in line with their agreements with one another and standing with one another have benefited both sides.

All right. Just closing up, I want to talk about you personally. You had your own distinguished career in Congress, which you're giving up to go take on this new assignment. You were Green Beret. You served in the military for over a couple of decades, if one includes your reserve duty. You have real operational military experience all over the world, specifically in the region we're talking about. And as you said, you've authored this book, Hard Truths, which we talked about in the introduction.

I just want to take you back. Do you remember when you first traveled to Israel or one of your early trips or one of your early impressions when you visited Israel? I just think it would be interesting. I've actually never really talked to you about that.

Yeah, I do. I remember early on speaking or attending and then later speaking at the Herzliya Conference with some members of the IDF around the world, them coming to visit us in our special operations units and just appreciating just really, truly the excellence in the IDF and its most elite units. But then just as a person of faith, as a Christian, walking the holy sites and

is in doing it with my mother. I never forget standing at the pool of Siloam, if I'm saying that correctly, and her asking an Orthodox archaeologist, do you think maybe possibly Jesus could have walked here? And he looked at her and said, ma'am, 100%, because everyone washed here before walking up to the temple.

And I remember standing with a young officer at the Iron Dome facility who had to make life and death decisions literally within seconds of when the system got overwhelmed, where the rockets would go, calculations, who had more bunkers in a center, and then asking them about their future. And the young officer said that they were unfortunately going to leave the military, but they had already were in two different startups. Back to our point.

on national service. So I just think there's so many powerful commonalities. I wish I could get more Americans over to see, you know, to walk up the Sea of Galilee. It just is really a very special place. But also to see how vulnerable Israel and the Israeli people are at all times is something you just have to go to appreciate. And in light of that, and I'll just wrap here, I often ask guests this, and I've actually never asked you this just in our conversations.

If you remember where you were the morning of October 7th when you were learning about the news and what you were thinking is the first question. And related to that is, were you then surprised that

by the world's reaction to this massacre being waged against Israel. Because I often say I would have expected the world's outrage to be directed at those who were massacring Jews. I didn't expect the world's outrage to be directed at Jews for objecting to being massacred. So what was your reaction as all this was playing out? Well, I'll just tell you too, I mean, we're all guided or impacted by our backgrounds. I've also seen

pure evil. I've been shot at by, in this case, the Taliban standing behind women, resting their rifles on their shoulders. And you, you know, you either just take the rounds or you shoot back in a horrible way. And so I have a deep appreciation for the horrible dilemmas.

Israeli soldiers were often put in. And so if you remember in the wake of October 7th, there was just overwhelming global sympathy and support. But I also feared at the time that it was going to shift. I knew what the difficult combat that lay ahead in an

urban environment with an enemy that hides behind, is willing to sacrifice its own people, and that would use them as propaganda victories. And my fears came true in the UN with many European leaders, and frankly, then in the middle of an election year, with unfortunate pandering to the progressive left, some silver lining,

was that, you know, if you remember the hearing with, you know, Elise Stefanik's hearing, Virginia Fox's hearing, the Education Committee in the House with the presidents of Harvard, MIT, and Penn, where you heard it in their own words, the anti-Semitism that has seeped into, the progressivism that's seeped into our educational system is one of the most watched hearings ever in Congress. But I think it also has started a sea change in

hopefully back in the right direction with some momentum that we can continue in the Trump administration to clean this nonsense out of our educational institutions on top of the endowments and all kinds of other issues that we'll have to get after and address.

Congressman Michael Waltz, I know you're busy. Is this your last day or second last day in Congress? I'm here to the 20th. Here to the 20th. All the way through. All right. Running through the tape. Thank you for taking the time. I will be keeping in touch and hope to have you back on, but grateful for your time and your service. And we'll talk soon. All right. Thank you. Thank you.

That's our show for today. You can head to our website, arkmedia.org, that's A-R-K, arkmedia.org, to sign up for updates, get in touch with us, and access transcripts, all of which have been hyperlinked to resources that we hope will enrich your understanding of the topics covered in the episodes on this podcast.

Call Me Back is produced and edited by Ilan Benatar. Additional editing by Martin Huergo. Rebecca Strom is our operations director. Research by Stav Slama and Gabe Silverstein. Until next time, I'm your host, Dan Senor.