Judd Apatow|Club Random w/ Bill Maher
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LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. How awesome is it that I can drink and talk to Judd Apatow at five in the afternoon? This is what you've always wanted. And people say I've been mean to Jesus, but the man does not take offense, apparently. Yes. So do you have a drink? I do have a drink right here. Oh, you do? Good. I'm joining you. You know, my parents used to watch the clock.

Like kids in school waiting for the bell to ring. Because before five, you're a fucking drunk. And after five, it's cocktails. They hit it hard. People in that, that's the Mad Men era. They fucking drank. I don't know if that's your parents. My dad will do that. But not before five. How far would it go? Well, my father was Irish, shall we say. He was tense in his job. He was a newsman. So, you know, in the days when you had to read the news, like,

with a stopwatch because it was live on the hour on the radio station. It was a tense job. The best conversation I ever had with him was when I was in college and I was stoned and he was drunk. Yeah. You know,

But he was never somebody who didn't function or was drunk on the job. He just, like, you get home and, boy, you need to unwind, you know. And did he mind you unwinding? He was so fucking naive about it. Yeah. One time, my friend and I, this is the first year I'm smoking pot. What year is this, Bill? This is 1975. And you're 12. 19. 19.

19 is the first time you smoked pot? Yeah, I smoked pot in sixth grade, Bill. Look at me. I'm the straight one between us. You smoked pot in sixth grade? My best friend, Ronnie Garner, his brother followed the dead, and he grew pot in his room.

And so one day we said, let's smoke that pot because we were young animals. No one was paying attention to us. We were like latchkey kids. And so we were so scared. We went to where they were building condominiums, like half-built condominiums, like a horror movie. And like we took like one puff each and then a security guard was like, who are you? And we ran for like seven miles. I don't think the guy even turned and took a step. And then that was it for a couple of years.

- Young Animals, by the way, is a good title for you. - Yes. - For something, right? - Yeah. - Young Animals? I haven't written that movie yet. - The sixth, seventh grade year. - I would go right around the title. I would just go right for the title, Judd. But, so listen to this story. I'm 19, my first year, you know, I literally would, like my friend would, when I was home, you know, on vacation, from my wonderful time at Cornell,

Okay, so I'd be with my friend. He was the one who introduced me to the pod high school friend. He would come over and we would smoke like in the car, in the driveway, and then sit in the driveway for an hour because we were just laughing at the glove compartment. I mean, that first year, the drug worked so well, at least it did for me, especially as a laugh drug. Yeah.

That you're just hysterical, almost like what mushrooms would be later in life. Mushrooms is always a laughing drug. But one time, it was the dead of winter, I was on winter vacation, and we're driving, smoking in the car, doing bongs. We had a little bong. We'd do it at traffic lights. Yeah, we didn't know. Well, I could have been in jail now. So...

I say roll down all the windows when you had to roll them down in the Pontiac, dad's Pontiac, because we've got to air out the car. No seatbelts? No seatbelts. No airbags? No. Nothing, just our wits. And here's our wits, besides smoking at red lights. So I say roll down all the windows to air out the car before we get home. It's like 10 degrees out.

We pull in, we forgot about the windows. So my father's shoveling snow. He comes over and he says, it's 10 degrees out. Why are the windows all rolled down? And any other father who wasn't like so trusting in his son would have known why. And I just said, oh, he farted.

You know what the lesson I saw was? And that was it. Your dad was a terrible journalist. He didn't sniff that out at all. You're right. But it came to his kids. He was very naive that way. He was just good hearted and trusting and stuff. But speaking of family, I have to say your kid so killed it.

on Euphoria this year. I know. You must be such a proud papa. so proud. It seems like just yesterday she was saying, fuck you mom and this is 40. Exactly. That was preparation for Euphoria. You can see the stages again. No, but she's a nice one. Yes. I mean, and she really, they made her, gave her a big part. She was fantastic. I'm,

Boy, I can't believe it. What I liked about the show is it was like two years, the first two years was all leading to this idea of him showing...

why they're all messed up and traumatized and the grief they have. And it was really beautiful. Just as someone who likes good television and cinema, to even get to have a little peek of what they're doing is... By the way, that's some high school play that that high school can put on, huh? Exactly. Well, it's a surreal experience.

I mean, of course, you can't. It's like Apocalypse Now. If you took that movie, as people remember at the time, compared it to Platoon, it's like, no, Platoon is not a comedy. Let's say black comedy. If you don't see it that way, it's not... And it's kind of the same thing with...

No high school play could ever look like that. You just go with it because it's so entertaining and it makes the art good. I mean, he's quite a talent, Levinson, right? And it's fun to watch Maude preparing because as a parent, she's telling you what work was like that day. And so she's like, oh, I hope I did a good job. I had to cry a lot today.

And that's all you really know of what the day was. And then you see it, and it's the most beautiful, intense scene. And it's not at all like her description of it when she's coming home. So many kids of, you know, stars or directors. No, Newsman doesn't really get it. Well, it does a little. Sure, look at what you did. Right. And he was funny. Yeah. I saw the first part of your Carlin episode.

Yes. It's so fantastic. The George Carlin documentary, which will be out in May. May, on HBO. Yes. It's amazing. I mean, you don't even have to love Carlin to begin with, but if you do, of course, it's even more amazing. But it's just, I think everybody knows. I mean, your show there, and I've seen it also a lot, he still quoted tons on social media. Every week he trends, and he's been dead for like 15 years. That's so rare. Yeah.

especially among the younger generations who were not like us, who don't, like we cared about older people and even if they weren't around anymore, if they were interesting, whereas I feel like the younger generations, it's like if you're not around while I'm around, you don't exist.

So for Carlin to be still trending, it's amazing. He has the perfect bit for everything that's happening all the time. And it doesn't matter what comes up. He has something about it. Over the span of the career, yeah. Yeah, over 30 years he hit big government, big pharma, wokeness. I mean, there's a bit for every subject. But I noticed you showed that

His father, even though he was such a rotten guy and he was gone by the time George was eight, right? By like one, I think.

No, I think he was around because George complained about him. Yes, so a teeny bit. But he was a monster to the mother. Yes. But he says he was very funny. He was funny. And this is such a common chord, right, with comics. The father is like a living room comedian. The father's funny but not professional funny. And the kid...

So many comics have that story in them. My dad had all the Cosby records and the Lenny Bruce records. Was he funny? He made his friends laugh. But on some level, he just put in me that comedy was an incredibly great thing. He loved it so much, that's what we had out. Like, oh, you have to listen to this. And your parents were together for a little while? Oh, not for all time. Until the end of junior high. Which for my high school was pretty good.

One by one, every kid's parents got divorced and you would move from your house into the Hidden Ridge condominiums. Everyone would switch over after the divorce. That shows we are not exactly the same generation. Because my experience is not that at all. No one got divorced. Suicide was rather high in the town. Just to get out of it. Dad would be in the swimming pool. Seriously. Before he would leave. Yeah.

Because he couldn't leave. Right. I mean, honestly, that was not that uncommon. That's the New Jersey way. Remember in Mad Men? Yeah. There was the character, the neighbor lady. There's a lady who's like a single mom. She's got that kid, Glenn, who has a crush on John Hamm's wife and kind of a creepy kid. On Mad Men, yeah. On Mad Men, yeah. Well, she was like a pariah in the neighborhood. Yeah.

This is the 60s. Yeah. Because you were in high school, what, in early 70s? Yes. Freshman year was 70. I graduated in 74. Yeah. What, what? I graduated in 85. Yeah. So we're like a decade. And that decade is the difference between a boomer and a Gen Xer. Yeah. But very different times. Very different. Because you, you experienced the Beatles. Yes.

A little bit. I was, the end, I was old enough to know what I was experiencing. Let me rephrase it. You experienced the Plastigono Band. The Plastigono Band. Boy, they were pretty terrible. There's a couple of killers there. What?

Isn't it? Mother? Isn't Mother Plastigona Band? Oh, okay. You know what? Yes, I'm thinking, yes, if you want to be technical, his first two solo albums were the Plastigona, but they're John Lennon albums. I think of the Plastigona Band as the gang that went up to Toronto with no rehearsal, Eric Clapton and Klaus Forman and Yoko and played like Cold Turkey, which is a horrible song. Yeah.

He never did the big tour, John Lennon. No. He hosted the Mike Douglas show because there's a clip in the George Carlin documentary where he's talking about changing from like a corny comedian to an edgy comedian. And then you reveal the other guests on the Mike Douglas show are John Lennon and Neil Cahona. You know what got me more than anything? Well, two things. One, when he says, when he's first like really hitting it big and he says, the thrill of getting caught in your own traffic. Yeah.

I've had that experience where you're coming to the theater or trying to leave the theater where you're playing and there's a huge traffic jam because they came to see you. There's a crowd. I have not had that, but I decided to hear you. I could? You could. I'd have to... I'd have to create fewer lines of traffic to get in to create that. Well, I mean... No, but... No, you... What? You know what? There's very few directors...

And there's one coming a little later. I hope you stay a little and say hi. Who are famous. It's very hard to become famous just from being a director. You know, I'm talking to the public. Like the man in the street knows your name.

Like he knows Spielberg's. Like he knows Quentin's name. But it's not a lot. I mean, you say to the man in the street, you know, I don't know, name some directors. Scorsese, they know that name. But it's rare. And they know his face. And, you know, he's like a celebrity. That's a rare thing. Yeah. So get out there and sell some tickets. Yeah. Well, that's his idea. I also do, you know, I do some stand-up. And I actually only direct to get better spots at the improv. All right.

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Go to signalwire.com slash video today. Comics, as you well know...

are bitter fucks and one of the things we're bitter about is how shitty we were treated when we began. I mean, there were times when I was promised money and got stiffed. I can think of two. Not that they burned in my mind 40 years later. One was the Comedy Works in Philadelphia. He said he would send me an excuse me check for 100. Even that didn't come. Okay, it doesn't matter. I've forgotten all about it.

And there was another one I played in a disco. Oh my God. I was supposed to get $30 to be in a disco, which let's just say that wasn't a great gig to begin with. Never got that. And then of course they would just cheat you out of money when we had to have a strike. This is like 79. The comedy store strike.

Comedy Star Strike, and also we had a union thing in L.A. My book, I wrote one novel about my beginnings. It's called True Story. You know, Ben almost made it into a movie way back in the day, but then other things happened. But, you know, the political spine of that is the nascent union movement.

There was a group of comedians who felt this is a showcase club. We stink and we're allowed to stink and you don't pay us and in response we don't feel any obligation to be any good because we're working it out. But the place is packed and it's a fortune. That's the other argument. And which side were you on? Well, that was a couple of years before my time

But I know that it was ugly. My book, the plot is about me and my best friend, this comedian, you wouldn't know him. And that kind of split us apart. I thought he was a guy who was never going to make it as a comedian. He was not. He was a funny, witty Irishman, but he was not overly burdened with talent for the stage. A little corny, a little...

not ahead of his time, behind it. And I thought he used the excuse of, let's all be in solidarity and quit if we don't get paid. It's like, well, you're not going to make it anyway. You don't care if we get paid. Whereas I'm going to fucking beat out you other motherfuckers. So I am willing to eat shit now for what this club is giving me. And so...

And I kind of stand by that. Not that we shouldn't have gotten something. We got cab fare, but, you know, I was terrible. I shouldn't have been paid. You know? And I feel like... And people crossed that picket line. There were people who crossed the picket line. There was no picket line in New York. I would not have crossed... Oh, that was in New York. In L.A., there were people who Mitzi got to keep working. Yeah, I would never have crossed the picket line because my father was a big union guy. And his father... I had my...

genealogy done a few years ago on that show on PBS, you know, the Skip Gates show. It's fantastic. I refuse to do it because they wanted my DNA and I'm not giving it out to anybody. Is that serious? Maybe they're going to give it to my health insurance people. Maybe they're going to clone me after I'm dead. I'm not giving Gates my personal genetic information. Did I? Yes, he has it. He...

he could build you in a lab with this with it. He could make a Bill Maher ear. That's no skin off my nose. Or maybe it is. No, why is that? Why would that? I don't like people that, I don't know. You know what? It's so funny. Like the things that creep you out. Right. There's no logical reason for it other than it made me think,

That feels like the most personal thing I can do to give to strangers. And I don't know where all that data is going. So I've never done 23andMe. Now you're getting me paranoid about it, and you could probably talk me into that point of view. Anyway, I don't remember the part about giving my DNA. Okay.

I thought they just had researchers because they like went to Ireland. I mean, they found my Irish relatives going back to, I think, 1818, you know, the church where they're born, that kind of stuff. There were records of that. It's fascinating. My grandfather...

who I never met, but he was a badass. He was on the front page of the newspapers in like 1919, 1920. He was head of the Boatsman's Union. He met with the president, Woodrow Wilson, in the White House to settle this shit. He had the whole New York harbor locked up looking for better wages. I mean, back then, wages were really shit. That's my heritage. My father came from the same Irish, you know, when the Irish ran New York, the Irish.

and the Irishman and all that stuff. And he would have been heartbroken if I ever crossed any picket line, and I never would. I mean, I'm pro-union.

But unions got corrupt, too. That's not a lie. So you're from a long tradition of not taking any shit. Well, certainly my grandfather was a badass. I mean, that was mostly what Skip Gates concentrated on. And then he brought out a small mouse with my dick on it.

In 10 years, Hulu is going to suddenly have a show with a guy very similar to you. Yeah.

Have you ever seen that with the ear on the mouse? Yes. Well, this is the future. They're going to be able to improve little sections of our body. I mean, you're not getting any younger. Wouldn't you rather? I'm going to miss it. I'm going to miss it. I can tell. Miss what? Well, like if I was 20, I'd be like, oh, all these things are happening, are going to reach me, and they're going to regenerate me, but I'm going to drop dead the day before that kicks in. Right.

I always say that too. I say, I don't mind dying, I just don't want to be the last guy to do it. We got the cure, oh! But,

But if they had spare parts, I mean, we already are part of the way there. Do you know who Ray Kurzweil is? Yes. You do. Of course you do. You know everything. Well, he predicted a lot of amazing things that came true, like almost to the year of the fall of the Soviet Union among them. And half man, half robots. Well, that's his thing. It's called the singularity. I know about it. I have nightmares about it.

Well, why? He says 2028 is when man and machine become fully integrated. No, we're already part the way there because I notice when you fill out certain things, it's like, do you have any metal in your body? And soon that's going to be like, do you not have any? Are you a weirdo who has no metal in your body? Well, now they can put things on your head and...

Have you, like, type with your thoughts. They're just beginning to figure out. Type with your thoughts? Yeah, like move a cursor with your mind. So we're getting closer. But at some point the robots just say, it would be easier without the flesh people.

Yeah, well, now that's an interesting debate that people like Musk, Elon Musk, and maybe it's Bezos have, I'm not sure who, but Elon Musk, and I'm on the page with him and you, which is that it's true. Because everything that happens in movies...

eventually happens. Everything, yes. You know, I was at an Oscar party with Elon Musk and I asked him, this is really funny, it was like maybe 10, 12 years ago, it was before Tesla and he's there, someone introduces me to him. I don't, I've like heard his name but I don't know who he is. It's before people really knew who he was. Really? And I said, uh,

I just kind of knew the name that maybe from like, did he do PayPal? Yeah. And so I just said, so what are you up to? And he said, I'm trying to come up with a spaceship that can fly to Mars and back. And I said to him, and we're both kind of maybe a little drunk, I said, there's no way you're going to figure that out before you die. That's hysterical. I was trying to get him not to innovate. That's hysterical.

I was such a Jew in that moment. I was just like, you'll never figure it out. Do something practical. That's hysterical. Wow. But he is of the mind that, yes, what you say, eventually the robots figure out they don't need us. I mean, it's disturbing, I feel, in itself, this typing with your mind, because that seems like if you can do that, can't you read someone's mind?

I mean, if, okay. Or those Google glasses that no one wanted a few years ago, because like you could be wearing those glasses now, but videotaping our conversation without anyone knowing those are about to come back. I think, you know, the idea that you had your computer screens on there, like RoboCop. Yeah. That doesn't bother me as much. I wouldn't use them, but it's still living in the realm we're living in. It's sneaky, but we also always have done sneaky things, but getting inside my mind. Yeah.

What's in there, Bill? What would they see? I hide way less than most people. That's true. It's me and then a little bit of a realer me and then a little realer realer me.

And then public parking. And that's... Well, what I would say about you... The club random is right in the middle. What I would say about you, Bill, is that I feel like the thing I really respect is that you mean everything that you say. I never feel like you write a joke to get to the joke. That these are your beliefs, whether you agree or not. Correct. And I think a lot of comedians, they fudge their opinion... Of course. ...to get to jokes. And, like, people want...

want to be taken seriously for their opinions, but they also want to say, I'm just goofing, I don't mean any of it. And you have to pick a lane, I think. Well, when you start out, first of all, you're just trying to get...

The oxygen of laughter. So you'll say anything, whether you believe it or not. Or if it's me, you'll put on a wig. You're just trying to survive. But yes, as you get better and more sophisticated. And yeah, that became much more my brand. I feel like that's the bond with my audience. You don't have to agree with me.

and many times people don't or they don't fully. I always appreciate when someone says, I always agree with you. I'm like, there's a true fair. But no, I love just as much people who say, I don't always agree with you, but they appreciate that, they respect that, and that's the thing I won't break because then you've got to stick with your brand. But interestingly, in the Carlin thing, he says at one point,

when he's making the transition from sellout

You know, that person who needs the oxygen of laughter and money in his case. He's on the Kraft musical. I mean, see him with John Davidson. Yeah. And the other comic is Richard Pryor. We're in the same sweater. They're the two, like, you know, fucking, oh, that's sad. It's not sad. It's like everybody's career in show business. You've got to fucking eat shit. Even Pryor and Carlin ate shit on the Kraft musical. It's almost uplifting. And they're singing. Yeah.

They're literally in like variety show singing number. But he says, when he switches up, he says, yeah, I'm playing to like 40-year-olds in nightclubs, you know, and they're not digging it. I realized I had to go for the college crowd. If a comic was like super honest like him today, the last place they would go is the colleges. Colleges is where even Jerry Seinfeld would play colleges, right? Yeah.

You know all about that. I've heard that he said it's not his favorite place to play. I remember doing a whole thing about it. It was Jerry Seinfeld said it, Chris Rock said it, and Larry the Cable Guy. So you play colleges. A black Jew and a redneck walk into a college and none of them want to tell any jokes to these little pricks to whom nothing is funny. And...

Yeah. I mean, do I play college? I would be the last one to be able... I mean, I would be... They would protest before I got to the college. I wouldn't even be able to walk on the stage, let alone survive. I mean, they would not agree with one premise, probably, that I had to say. Unless it was like, Trump is an asshole. Yes, we can all agree Trump is an asshole. There's an easy one. Yeah, depending, I guess, where the college is. Mm...

True. I'm sure there are colleges in Texas and fucking places like that. Because I used to book the colleges when I first met you. I booked you at a college. Thank you for getting me back to my point of 20 minutes ago, which is my committians are bitter because we don't get paid well. But I remember to this day, as well as the ones who didn't pay me, that you paid me $500 at a time when that was not a common, that was a good payday. Yeah.

A good pay day. In town? In L.A. In L.A. You picked me up. I picked you up. Do you remember the car that I was driving? Yeah. I'm sure I was driving a Jeep.

I think. Is this 89? Yeah, it could have been a Volkswagen also. I'm not sure. No, this was probably like, yeah, 87, 88. 87. So you were just two years out of high school. I was booking shows to get spots. So I booked UC Santa Barbara. I booked USC when I was going there. And then occasionally people would ask me to book things and I would book people I admired and then force you to drive in a car with me and talk to me.

Well, I remember thinking, I mean, I must say, I have a pretty good eye for spotting a talent. It takes a big talent to spot a big talent, I always say. No, I don't really say that, but it made me feel good. But you, I thought from the very beginning, I think this kid,

Definitely. This kid is going somewhere, I'm not sure where, but he is just too far along for his age. Your level of knowledge, I remember, about comedy was... I was crazed. So whatever happened to you? Well, this book...

Oh, perfect segue. Well, you know, I... Sicker in the head. Most people are listening to this, not hearing it and watching it, so let me see it. I'm going to hold it up to my ear. There you go. When I was a kid in high school, I would interview comedians because I wanted to know about comedy, and then I put out these books for charity for Dave Eggers' 826 charity. Oh, is this more... This is like a part two, right? This is part two. Oh, I see. Right. You know, Letterman's in there, Sacha Baron Cohen. Oh, yeah.

Nathan Fielder? Whoopi Goldberg? Who's that? Nathan for you? Have you not seen Nathan for you? No. Oh, you'd love it. Okay. Put it in your queue. I mean, of course I'm going to read that one. But I was always obsessed with talking to comedians. And it was fun for this to talk to people because it was during the pandemic. I didn't know what to do.

And everyone was home, so I got Letterman on the phone to talk for a couple of hours about what it was like. Well, you got Letterman to talk on the phone because you are who you are now. It couldn't have been that easy in 1987. And yet you still did it. I still did it. You still got to talk to all these people. Well, no one wanted to talk to anyone back then.

I mean, the thing is, if you called Jerry Seinfeld in 1983 to do a long interview, he had never done one ever. I mean, no one did, like, hour interviews with comics back then. They weren't really on the radio. They weren't in the newspaper. There was no podcast. There was no internet. Yeah, it's people with... I mean, that story that Paul Reiser tells about he comes to his house, George Carlin. George Carlin came to his house to do an interview with his sister for her college radio station. And he was well-known by then. I mean, he wasn't a newcomer. It was just people...

You know, people didn't used to be so paranoid. Yeah. You know, like in Lincoln's time, well, of course, Lincoln had a bad experience with this, but like, you know, you could just roll up on the president. You could knock on the White House door. Yeah. Elvis did it. What? Elvis did it. No. That wasn't an appointment. He showed up. I know, but he was stopped before he went in. He didn't just walk up. There was no gate back then. It was just the White House. It was just a house in the neighborhood. You know? If you had the right cape...

You were in there. And a badge. Didn't they give him a badge? There's a picture of that hanging in the bathroom in there of Elvis that day. Well, I mean, it just shows the power of celebrity. Yeah. You know, I mean, you can celebrity your way into or out of so much. It's not right. I'm not saying it's right. It's horrible. And yet, come on. I mean...

I'm sure you've done it. My level of celebrity is so perfectly low. Oh, it's not. I mean, it's fantastic. I remember going to see you. You've never gotten a table at a restaurant because you're the director. You know what? Here's the thing. At my level, it's like one in six that it's going to happen. And it's worth it, and I'll take the shot every time. Then you need to get a better assistant.

Yeah, the kids... Whoever is calling these restaurants for you really is not doing the job. They call up and they go, he made Knocked Up in 2007. I don't know if you saw it. You... Okay. Do I have to read your... Are you having a moment of confidence crisis that I have to read your credits for you? I remember going to see the Clippers with Shanling, right? So we're walking in the Clippers game and Shanling always said he had the perfect level of celebrity because...

In a whole night of the Clippers game, three people walked up to him, you know, in a stadium, and each one could not have been happier to talk to him. No one else said a word to him. Right. And he said, Judd, this is what you want it to be. Right. Right there. I would say it's similar for me. Yeah. You know, I mean, sometimes it's so funny. People in civilian life, or officers, if they don't live in L.A., they don't have any clue. They think every celebrity knows each other. They think if you're famous...

every one of us is Michael Jackson in 1985. That, you know, we're just... That if I had children, I'd have to put a blanket over them because everyone would be taking pictures of them. I saw that, by the way, at the mall in Vegas. Saw what? Michael Jackson run through the mall at Caesars Palace with one of his kids covered in...

Right. It was like a beekeeper thing. Yeah. It was hysterical. I remember there was a hat on the masks. There was an episode of Eastbound and Down. I loved that show. Danny McBride. And he gets like the slightest job in show business, like an announcer on a local radio, sports announcer on the local TV station. And the next day he's got his kids wearing those Michael Jackson things.

It was like the ultimate fame went to his head too fast. Club Random is supported by ZipRecruiter. According to the latest research, 90% of employers plan to make enhancing the employee experience a top priority in 2022. After all, a happy workplace is a key to attracting and keeping great employees, especially if they're working out of their kitchen.

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Because it was... First of all, he's such a brilliant guy. And that show, you could be with three idiots. Yeah. It took the art out of what he does. It wasn't for him, and he was right. And, like, I remember at the time, I wished...

He, you know, liked it better. But I see now why. He was too good for it in a lot of ways. But he was very written. When he did stand-up, he would never riff. He wouldn't play with the crowd. He didn't write on stage. He just wrote it and said it. And we see that in your documentary. Because just like you did with the Shandling one, I love this. We see the notebook. You know, you actually see it almost in his head first. But then on the page...

Sometimes the scribble out for the revised version that we then see and hear him actually do. I love that. And he talks about America, and you see the post-it note. It says, it's a big club, and you're not in it. Right. What did that mean? Well, he was just talking about America, because he had this bit, and he said, they call it the American dream, because you have to be sleeping to believe it.

You know what, Bitt? I loved seeing. I remember when he did it, but it certainly resonated with me so much now because of the pandemic and my feelings about how it should have been handled much more internally than externally. Internally meaning what? Well, terrain theory, which even Louis Pasteur...

on his deathbed, and he was the father of germ theory, admitted to, is that, and it's not denying germs, of course, we're not insane people, it's the terrain that whatever the invading pathogen is trying to take root in. That's what is the deciding factor. If you're a swamp, mosquitoes will breed. If your body is not a swamp, they have a lot of hard time. That's not saying you can't die if you're not a swamp, but

So when he said, when I was a kid, we swam in the East River and none of us got polio. Every other, we swam in sewage. And he goes on and on. And it's just like, exactly. I just felt like, he also said at one point, it could have come out of my mouth these days. He said, I don't like orthodoxy from the left or the right.

He was like the only guy I can like sort of use as a lodestar for that who wasn't like predictable. Yeah. You know, with... He's tough on everybody. I didn't even always agree. I felt like his thing on environment was stupid.

There's plenty that don't work at all. I mean, I went through all of it. I mean, some of it is, like all of us, is great. It's like the planet will be fine. Yeah, we're not worried about the planet. We're worried about us living on it. People are arrogant about trying to clean up the planet for your own benefit.

That's what it is. For your own breath? Yeah, I mean, he was just like... For your own life? Exactly. Like, there was something about that that it was self-centered to do it for yourself. I'm not exactly sure what that... Maybe I'm misquoting it. So after you do one of these documentaries...

Are you sick of the guy? Well, that one I was worried because I was very close with Gary Shandling. I had met George Carlin, but I didn't know him. And I just thought, can I capture him with my partner, Michael Bonfiglio, without having that experience? And his daughter, Kelly Carlin, was really instrumental in telling the story. And so I'm just so happy that her family...

thinks that it is correct. Because it's also about his marriage. I mean, he had a very tumultuous marriage. They both had addiction issues. And then they worked it out. And it's a beautiful but rough story. I love the drugs. I love the drugs. Yeah. Why continue? No, I love the drug stuff in there. Because we learn a lot about coke, liquor, and pot.

He's on a TV show way back, and he's saying... Again, pioneers get all the arrows. I mean, fuck. He's saying... I don't know what year that was, but he's saying... I guess the kid, Kelly, probably was like seven or eight or something, and he's saying...

Well, we'd rather she smoke marijuana than do liquor. It's healthier, which is now a fairly commonplace and, of course, scientifically undeniable premise. And he was saying they smoke pot in the house on a morning show in L.A. And they were so shocked. It might be an afternoon show. I mean, their jaws are on the floor. He's like, yeah, we smoke pot and we think it's fine and we'll talk to our daughter about it. You can tell the lady is like...

How can I say this so this doesn't get on me? You don't really think marijuana would be acceptable to a child. You know, I mean, they are losing their shit. But when you, there's a, you see him in the round at one point. I kind of remember that show. I don't know what it is. But boy, do I see in that performance a guy who's coked up. Oh, absolutely. Sweaty,

It's like the typical Coke joke is the guy who can't shut up and you hate that guy. But it's like, oh, but he has the right job for being that guy. Well, he's also writing. But he's also manic. He's manic and he lives with a book. He's like doing Coke for days at a time by himself, never with other people. It's never social. And he's writing and he's listening to music. And we have audio tapes of him like singing and screaming and...

And he certainly paid a price for it with a lot of heart problems. I can't even imagine doing drugs like that. I'm certainly not against drugs, but...

Only doing them wisely. Well, one theory was that he had obsessive compulsive disorders and maybe attention issues and something about the effect of cocaine for him, he thought was serving this obsession with writing and language and maybe they were all working together in some way and then it fully, like it does with drugs like that, gets away from him and really wrecks your life. But...

I was talking to his manager about it because I wanted to make sure we got it right. And he said to me, you know, Judd, he said to me all the time, I love cocaine. But he did it for a very long time. And there was something lonely about it because it was about being on the road. And he had to cancel gigs. There's an appearance on the Mike Douglas show with his mother where his voice is...

Yes. And he was canceling shows because of it. Yeah. There's that story, it's very funny, that Paul Reiser tells when he comes over to the apartment. Yeah. And then they say when he's leaving, it's like, where are you going? He said, I've got to go uptown to buy a camera. And Paul's father's like, let me take you downtown. I've got the best place. So he goes with them and buys the camera, and they run into him like a year later, and they say...

something about remembering that day and he said yeah I was on my way uptown to buy coke and I wound up having to go downtown to buy a camera he was never he was never going uptown to buy a camera he was in town to score how amazing it is that Paul Reiser's sister interviews him

They kept the tape. I have the audio in the documentary. And there's this amazing story of them driving him to a camera store, and against his will, he buys a camera so he doesn't look like he's buying coke. Show business is so serendipity. Do you know how Paul Reiser's really excellent career started?

He was buying underwear in New York City in 1981 with the guy I was just talking about who's in my book as the guy who, the Irish guy. I think I know who it is. Okay. I don't think I figured it out. You knew him. I loved him. He was a great guy. But anyway, Paul and he were going shopping together.

underwear shopping at Macy's and then Paul's Mike had this Mike okay giving it away had this audition and he said Paul was just like hanging around with him he didn't have any and he comes with and winds up with the part in diner in diner Barry Levinson yeah because he's just funny in the lobby how did it happen

Where did... I think he was just like chatting with the people in the lobby and they just said, hey, you want to come in? But I mean, you can't... It's crazy. You just can't. I mean, you know, that movie for me is a really big movie because I was very aware that he had improvised a lot of his part and that Barry Levinson and him collaborated on that character.

And as a kid, I thought, wait a second, the actors can make stuff up in the movie? It was the first time I understood about improvisation and that type of collaboration. And the way all those friends talk to each other in Diner was what I was partially copying with Knocked Up and all the friends and Seth because I was blown away by that movie. Right. You've always had a troupe.

And that guy's son is the director and writer of Euphoria. How weird is that? No, I'm saying, there's only six people in show business. But I'm not surprised about it. That's interesting that we got onto the diner thing, though, because now that I'm thinking about it, yes, I do see that DNA.

And your DNA is, well, first of all, it's not in the hands of Skip Gates. I mean, let's make sure of that. This dies with me. By the way, if I was going to trust my DNA with anyone, he might be the one guy. He does deserve it. He's a very honorable guy. All respect to him. Love that guy. I'm going to send him a pint of my blood as an apology. Skip, you can have my DNA, my blood, my jizz. You can have whatever you fucking want, my friend.

I'm no snob about my bodily fluids, unlike some people. I mean, your DNA is like, you are one of those people, like, I would compare you a little, although much more successful, of course, to P.J. O'Rourke, who just passed. P.J., when I read The National Lampoon,

like in the early 70s. Man, I mean, Mad Magazine was fine for being 10 years old, but National Lampoon was wicked, and that was P.J. O'Rourke. Not at the very beginning, when it was good, too, but P.J.'s years were, I thought, kind of fucking amazing, and that DNA became Saturday Night Live. A lot of those writers, Michael O'Donoghue. George Meyer. Yeah, a lot of them. And the sensibility.

And it kind of, and Saturday Night Live spawned how many, most of the comedy movie stars we've had in the last 40 years. Will Ferrell, how many movies did you do with him? - Yeah, well P.J. Rourke was one of the first political writers who wrote in a comedic way. - After Lampoon. Lampoon, it was everything. But then yes, he was for Rolling Stone. He was their correspondent and he was all over the world. He was brilliant doing that too.

But, yeah, your thing has a lot of, I mean, girls. Well, it was also like the thing from Barry Levinson was there are people who are funny. You could get to know them, pay attention to how they speak, how they're funny in real life, and find a way to put that in the movie.

And that's the big thing that I took from it was, oh, you meet people, whatever it could be, anyone that I've worked with, and I'm writing with them or for them based on who they are. I'm not creating a character and going, act like this. Most of the time, I'm collaborating on creating a character. I was just watching the movie The Man with One Red Shoe. Oh, yeah? You remember that one? Tom Hanks, 1985, probably his...

Third or fourth movie. It was like, I'd never seen it. So it's like, you know, I see these things. I have TVs like in four places. I can watch in my bed. That's where I watch important stuff that I actually want to watch. Then I got stuff. I have a TV, a little TV in the bathroom, you know. For the tub. You're right. What are you watching me with your fucking Google glasses? Newsmax in the tub. Oh.

Not newsman. No, I was watching The Man with One Red Shirt. I liked the whole tapes. I'll go through the movie channels. Like, oh, I never saw that. I'm going to catch up with The Man. Or I'll watch this again because I liked it 20 years ago or something. How did it hold up? What? How did it hold up?

Well, it didn't hold up because I'd never seen it. Oh, hold up in time? Yeah. Not great. I didn't realize it was such... It's the oldest joke in the world. It's the guy who's mistaken for a spy. It's that movie. I, for some reason, thought it was a little more than that, but it's not. It's cute. It's of its era, but this is the 80s, and there was no attempt...

like when you knock a guy out to look like you really could have knocked him out. It's just like, it's indicated, and it's like, okay, I see the guy is supposed to be out for the plot to move along. This guy has to be lying on the floor unconscious. But what this man did to render him unconscious is just preposterously unrealistic. Well, that's like Batman. It was unconscious from every punch. There was a lot of, somehow if you hit someone with a karate chop, like from the side on the neck,

It was something about the angle of your hand would just automatically put them out. And then, of course, they would wake up and there would be no repercussions from being rendered unconscious. In those scenes, there were always like eight people on the ground. And at the end of the scene, as the guy who beat him up left, they would all slowly be waking up. But not enough to go get him, but just enough to go, oh, that's hysterical. But

But that was a great era of Tom Hanks because, you know, he does Bachelor Party. Right. You know, and Bosom Buddies and then, you know, Big. And he just said, I'm going to be a great actor. And time after time, he just kept doing it until he completely broke through. Oh, yeah. In that way. No, he was great early on.

You know, it's like the early Beatles stuff. It was different. It was somewhat simpler, but it's still good. The Jackie Gleason movie, remember? He made that movie. Yes. It was a great movie. That was 85, I recall. That was a guy who used to hang out at the Improv wrote that. I remember Bud Friedman being very excited about it. Yeah, it was a father-son one. I think that was the first one he did where it was, okay, now we're in the revolver phase. And punchline. Yeah.

Punchline, yes. Yes, where he played the comedian. Do you remember when Barry Sobel was running around the club with Tom Hanks teaching him how to do stand-up? I don't remember Barry Sobel so much, but I do remember Tom Hanks, and I remember thinking, wow, he's an actor. Actors usually are horrible approximating stand-up.

But he could be a stand-up. And he's proved that. I mean, he's done SNL and things. Yeah. I saw a sketch. They re-ran a sketch of him as Dean Martin. Did you see that sketch? He's playing Dean Martin and Carl Sagan. It's like 1990. Oh, it's, man, Dana Carvey comes in as Paul McCartney. Oh, some of that stuff.

I mean, I watched the Ben Stiller. Some channel had it on about five years ago. Wow, that stuff was funny. And you were a kid. I was a child. I was 24 when I was working there. Do you remember there was a commercial for a dandruff shampoo? Yeah. And...

Dandruff. And him and Bob Odenkirk, they did a parody of that. Oh, the one where they did Woody Allen's Dracula. It was Husbands and Wives. Right. With monsters. So it was Andy Day as Woody Allen. Because Francis Ford Coppola's Dracula was out. So it was like Woody Allen. But the funny thing about that sketch, and this is why we were canceled, is Ben Stiller was doing an impression of Sidney Pollack as Frankenstein.

And that's too many levels for most people. Yeah, I can't even picture with that. Yeah, Sidney Pollack, that's not a... See, there's a director. A great director. An actor, too. And a good actor.

Who is not nearly as famous as you. He's dead. Even at his heyday. I'm just saying, that was an inside the town, Sidney Pollack. And he could still get a table at any fucking restaurant on any day on an hour's notice. Well, he would call up and go, I directed the firm. John, do I have to give you show business lessons at this late date in your life? Well, the one or two times when my kids have seen me try to use my name.

And this is how you do it. And this is why you don't do it, is if you don't have an assistant at the time and you call a restaurant and you say, hi, this is Judd Apatow. Do you have room for two? Because you can't say, do you have room for two? Because they say, no, you have to get the name out quick. And I did it and I hung up and my daughter, who was 15 at the time, turned to me and went, you are such a Hollywood dick. That's why I love the This Is Morty movie.

Because it was so, I mean, I say it's interesting for me to be saying this, so real from someone who's never lived in a home with children in Hawaii. Wait, there's no children here. But somehow I knew it was real. You know, somehow it just really...

That's an opus. That's a terrific movie. I've told you that before. Oh, thanks. I mean, you went to a different level with that one. Yeah, thank you. Which was so appropriate because 40 is sort of when you, you know, you build your life from 20 to 40 and then you live in it for, you know, hopefully you fucking knock wood and play Jesus or something that you get at Albert Brooks. I mean, to get that opportunity to work at Albert. Yeah. Yeah.

Because the night before he would shoot scenes, he would send me jokes. So I'd get emails with his punch-up ideas. Which is like your dream, that you get those. And they were incredible. Yeah. Well, he was always so funny. I mean, Modern Romance was for comics...

That sort of like shorthand movie that we would just do lines from, which I'm sure loads of people do with your movies. I mean, Superbad, and I've heard all those kind of stuff that comes back. But in the future, since you have this terrible esteem problem and this horrible person booking you reservations, in the future, just say, I'm Maude Apatow's father. Exactly.

Well, you know what happens? Isn't that the reason to have children? So they can help you when you're this washed up loser? This is how I know that my time has passed. I go on Twitter and I see... Your time has not passed! What the fuck? I'm on Twitter and I see that my name is trending. My name has never trended on Twitter. And I look it up and the first person says, I just found out Lord Apatow's dad is...

Judd Apatow. And then the next tweet is, who the fuck is Judd Apatow? And then the next tweet is, he's a director. And then the guy responds, I don't know the name of every nerdy fucking director. And I was trending because people were debating that they didn't know who I was.

Again, I can only say your publicist. I'm sure she's a perfectly wonderful person. I feel like this is not appropriate. Do I have to list all the things from freaks and geeks that you did? And then Cable Guy, I love. And Anchorman. Have you just did Anchorman?

Just say, hi, Anchorman guy. And then, you know, super bad. I'm going to get your assistance to do my reservations. Oh, you know, I haven't even mentioned my favorite movie of all is Walk Hard. As far as just losing it. Yeah. Just laughing. We like that one. Although when Walk Hard came out, it did not open, as they say. It made $2.9 million opening weekend, which is not what they were hoping for.

My daughter watched me take the call when I found out that it didn't make money. And she said the look on my face scarred her for the rest of her life. Just seeing dad fall apart. But I'm sure everyone now has seen it. Sometimes it takes a while and you see it on cable. Whenever there's a new music biopic, everyone watches Walk On. You know what?

Jack Rollins was Woody Allen's manager. Yes. You know, the famous Rollins and Jaffe and many other esteemed clients. And, you know, when Woody was starting, he was telling his jokes at the Greenwich Village party

or one of those clubs down there, Cafe Wah. The Hullabaloo's Club, you know, whatever it was. It was mostly folk music and it's like early 60s. And somebody said to him, Jack, you know, he goes up there every night and he bombs. No one's laughing. And Jack said, they're wrong.

Sometimes they're wrong. You know? Sometimes it just takes a while. Well, that is true. Things bubble up that you're surprised. I mean, like, Howl and Maud is a movie that got killed when it came out. Bubble, yeah. Well, my new movie. Are we promoting it? You know, I mean, I think... I don't think I have to prove to anybody that I am doing this thing without any sort of...

Yes. Preparation or... So, like, I don't... I barely know who's here. I knew you were coming, of course, at some point. No, I knew it was today, but I've been excited about it ever since. But you have, they told me... Let's get to the plug. You have a movie, and you're a big-time director, assistant. Wow.

Bubble, is it called? The bubble. The bubble. Yes. Okay, so this means the pandemic bubble? Well, it's about a group of actors trying to make a flying dinosaur action movie during the pandemic in a lockdown in London. I read about this somewhere. So they're all stuck in the hotel having a nervous breakdown because they can't leave. They're only allowed to shoot the movie and as it falls apart, the studio won't let them leave.

And it's Keegan-Michael Key and Fred Armisen and Caden Kinnan and Leslie Mann. Yeah, that's another thing you do great is cast. Not that it's not your script and your touch, but the people when you're with Jim Carrey, it's hard to lose with Jim Carrey in that role. Ben Stiller, Will Ferrell, you...

He once asked Sparky Anderson, when he was manager of the Reds, what his secret to managing was, and he said, I write Pete Rose's name on the lineup card. That's right. Yeah. Well, that's so true of it. Especially with this one, because I thought, oh, this is almost like a Christopher Guest movie. Let's get 10 funny people. We'll shoot in a hotel, everyone having a nervous breakdown. And then on another stage, we'll shoot this dinosaur movie, green screen, and intercut them. And...

That's the fun part for me. So is it like a straight-up comedy? Yeah, it's a hard... Okay. It's like... So it's just... It's literally the goofiest, most bonkers movie I've made. It's not emotionally grounded. Right. It's more in Mel Brooks' area, which is really funny because I thought that's what people want right now. They want to commiserate about how terrible this has been. It's great that you can, like, usually, like Woody Allen,

Okay, we don't hear a lot about him these days. We just talked about Husbands and Wives. We can get into, yes, but I'm talking about what I think is his unfair banishment from life. But, like, he was the funny early comedies, right? And then he morphed into more serious, and remember, there was always that thing about, well, Woody, why don't you just make a funny movie? It's like, well, that's not what I do. So...

That was Twitter back then. He never went... Yeah. He got in the street telling you to fuck off. Exactly. It's like that scene in comedy when the woman's on the phone, she says, Mr. Langford, will you talk to my husband? He says, no, you should only die of cancer. Yes. I'm right. But... What were we talking about? We were just talking about the early funny comedies. Oh, yes. People would be like, oh, Woody, why don't you go bananas? Just be funny. Yeah.

But once he transitioned to, I guess, with Annie Hall, like, he never went back and like, oh, you know what? Ten years later, I think I'm just going to make a man-cap one. But he could have. And it probably would have been good for him to do that. So I think it's good that you can, like, go back to just, like, your...

I mean, I don't even think I've ever gone this hard before. Really? Yeah. So that's really fun. And also, I've never worked with special effects. I mean, everything I've ever done is just two people talking in a restaurant. So to actually have to design flying dinosaurs and...

And work with the people from Industrial Light & Magic to make it look like one of those movies. I had never done any of that before. And then find a way to do dick jokes with dinosaurs. You were good at everything you did. Still are. Thank you. Alright. Thanks, I could talk to you all night, but you know, I have a day job. I know. Ever since you got me that $500, I've been your biggest fan. There you go. I think I got you one for five grand after that. And I feel like, really? Yeah. That could have been...