Piers Morgan | Club Random w/Bill Maher
52:57 Share

My dad works in B2B marketing. He came by my school for career day and said he was a big ROAS man. Then he told everyone how much he loved calculating his return on ad spend. My friend's still laughing me to this day. Not everyone gets B2B, but with LinkedIn, you'll be able to reach people who do. Get $100 credit on your next ad campaign. Go to linkedin.com slash results to claim your credit. That's linkedin.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply. LinkedIn.com slash results.

LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. I am so glad you're here. I have been wanting to fucking shake your hand since you stormed off your show. Yeah. I feel like there is not enough storming. I completely agree with you. I think there should be an award show called The Stormies just for people who have the balls to storm off. Yeah.

So what is that show? That was like their Today show? Yeah, it was the morning show, Good Morning Britain. All over Britain? All over Britain. London to Londonderry? Everywhere. Scotland? Yeah, Scotland, Wales, Ireland, everywhere. And it was, yeah, I mean, the blow-up came because I was hired specifically to give forthright opinions. That's why I got the job. And when I gave a very forthright opinion, I didn't believe a word Meghan Markle was saying in her Oprah win-a-thon.

all hell broke loose and the woke brigade tried to cancel me. And I thought, well, they're not going to cancel me because my opinions are my opinions. But of course, it turned out you actually are not allowed opinions. Yeah, it's so interesting. England, you know, it just becomes more and more Americanized, don't you think? Yeah, completely, yeah. Like the hypersensitivity thing, which, you know, I used to think of the British as stiff upper lip. But I remember going to England once

The first time, I think it was 1984, the Des O'Connor show. Yeah. You must have grown up on that. Des is great. But it was like, the TV was like two channels. Yeah. Like a documentary on fucking lawns. Yeah. And that was their prime time, right? Yes. When I grew up, there were three channels when I grew up. Now there's obviously hundreds and hundreds. Well, we only had a few channels when I was a kid either, but at least they put...

entertainment on it. At least it was McHale's Navy. It wasn't like a show about granite or some shit, right? Oh, yeah. And then over the years, I would go back to London and turn on the TV and then it'd be like, oh, there's the American version of this stupid fucking thing we do, whatever it was, you know, a game show or, you know, it just got more gossipy. And I thought this was the crown to that, the Meghan Markle thing, because...

There was just so much bullshit about it, right? I can't even remember. I watched Sharon Osbourne come on your show after. Oh, yes. Because she then got fired for standing up for me. Oh, right. Because she was accused of supporting a racist. And as she rightly said, what did he actually say that was racist? Of course, the truth was I hadn't said anything remotely racist. What I had done...

was say I didn't believe Meghan Markle, who, by the way, was lying through her back teeth. And that's what I mean about the way England has become Americanized. You can't... Because she's half black, she couldn't possibly lie. Right, right.

That's not racism. And also, I made the point there were lots of people on the show that day who vehemently believed every word she said. I said, well, why are they allowed to believe her? Why can they exercise their right to a belief when I can't exercise a right to disbelieve her? I don't care if you disagree with me or if you like her or if you agree with her. But I am surely entitled in what used to be a democracy to say, I don't believe you. Of course. Of course.

Let me preface by saying the sad thing is the way our country is now. Just by having this conversation, we will be perceived and they will try to characterize us as right-wingers. I'm not a right-winger. Nor am I. No, just because I don't bend the knee to the one true opinion. I call it the OTO. Yeah. That's the one...

especially since when it, I can see with my eyes, this is full of shit. You know what I could see with my eyes? Oprah, it's all coming back to me. This wasn't that long ago. I probably smoked too much pot. But, uh,

Oh, okay, Meghan and Harry, they go on Oprah, which itself, you know, why do you need to do that? Okay, so the royal family is accused of racism. I'm sure the old bag's got to be 100. I mean, she grew up in... Can you not call Her Majesty the old bag?

Really? I've got to have some limits for my country. You know, Sharon Osbourne... I don't mind you trashing our television. That's fair enough because you're right about a lot of that. Well, this is definitely not television. The Queen has been on that throne 70 years. Okay, but... And actually, I would say of all leaders of any kind in the world...

probably, despite everything, remains the most respected leader of all in the world. Okay, fuck me for like... Okay, it's so interesting. You can't call offensive names in my presence without me calling you out on it. Fine. But what's so interesting to me is that Sharon Osbourne said the same thing. Yeah.

Like you British people, it's like once a Catholic, you know, which I once was. You walk into a church and you still get a little, not that I want to rejoin or anything, but there's a little spilkus because you're just in this place that was drilled into your head as a child and you can't make it go away. Is this a good time to say I'm a Catholic?

Are you? I am, yeah. Okay. But this is the same kind of thing. The queen, even though your rational mind must know this is just an incredible bunch of bullshit, just the idea of royalty is offensive to me. I did a whole thing once. Of course. The premise that some human being calls another human being your highness, I find to be incredibly illiberal. But you call...

the leader of your country every four years, Mr. President, right? I mean- But that's his job. That's not your highness. You don't see a difference between your highness and Mr. President. But I think you're missing the point of what the Queen's job has purely been to be a figurehead of stability.

And as a calming influence through difficult times, she's actually been very effective. Okay, but I'm just saying that name, Your Highness, should be offensive to you. I actually don't call her Your Highness. I call her Your Majesty. You talk to her? I've talked to her many times, yeah.

You talk to that exalted, wonderful woman. She calls you like Trump calls Hannity? Not quite like that, but she's very funny. There was one moment I remember when we were at Windsor Castle and she had a media party. Listen to you name-dropping castles. I love it. We were in this magnificent castle and we were looking out over the lawns. I don't know if you're aware, they have these garden parties where 12,000 people can

Completely random people turn up, and the queen just walks among them. And they're held a few times. Yeah, yeah. And they're called the Royal Garden Party. I feel so shitty about it. I said to her, I said, Your Majesty, I said, can I ask you something? If you look out over your lovely, beautifully manicured lawns, do you actually enjoy...

the garden parties that you have here. So she looked at me, she said, well, Mr. Morgan, let me put it to you like this. How would you like 12,000 complete strangers trampling on your garden? So she has a sense of humor. Completely. And she's very, she's whip smart.

When I look at America, particularly now with the fractured nature of America, the sort of slightly chaotic, out-of-control nature of America, and the rampant division, which is arguably worse than it's probably ever been, we have the same thing politically. We had Brexit. You had Trump. These are extremely toxic, tribal, political environments, if you like, where it wasn't enough to take a side. You had to implacably take a side. And I wrote a book about this last year called Wake Up.

And it was really going back to the genesis of liberalism, what it was actually founded on, what it was supposed to be about, because I identify more as liberal than not, and how it's been completely bastardized over time, particularly in the last 10 years. Not only is it preposterous for liberals to want to cancel everything, because it's the antithesis of what liberalism should be about. Right. Not only is it completely...

And typical to democracy. I mean, democracy is supposed to be the ability to sit down with people whose opinions you don't share and to have a vigorous debate. At the end of it, go and have a drink and be friends, which I know you do. And I certainly do. That's gone as well now. So these modern day... In Britain too? In Britain too. So the modern day woke liberal, they don't want debate. They just want you to have their narrow prism of life. And if you don't sign up to it, you're not just...

and they don't just tell you you're wrong, you have to be destroyed. Everything that you stand for, you have to have your job removed, you have to have your life destroyed. And that is not liberalism. That's fascism. It's a new form of fascism. So would you have gotten canned if you hadn't walked off? Well, I was put in a position where they said to me, my employers...

look, if you apologize, you can keep your job. I said, what am I apologizing for? They went, disbelieving Meghan Markle. I said, but I don't believe her. No, I know, but can you just apologize to appease people? I went, well, why would I do that? Yeah, good for you. Who am I appeasing and why? Okay, so let's go. Just to be clear, none of the viewers at the show had any problem with what I said. Here's what I thought was interesting.

where my antenna went up. I understand exactly who she is. If I was just looking at her, I would never guess she was anything but a straight-up white girl. That's just, I mean, just looks. She said they showed a clip of her in Africa dancing with African girls, and she's like, you know, we've done so much because when I go here, the girls look at me and say, someone who looks like me could marry the, you know, be where I am. Well, first of all, they don't look like you.

An interesting question would be, would Harry have married someone who looked like those African girls they were dancing with? I mean, that's an interesting question. Maybe he would have. Maybe they're that. Maybe they're not racist at all either. But if you're accusing the royal family of being racist, ask that question of yourself first.

And then also, you know, just like, I don't think those girls had a chance to marry the Prince of England or whatever she was saying. Like, they see me and they realise I could be where she is. I mean, there's no doubt. There was not a trace of racism in the British media towards Meghan Markle. Really? No. Oh, come on. No, no, there wasn't. And in fact, quite the reverse. In fact, I remember when they got married, the outpouring... Hey, do you have a drink? I've got a soda.

You don't want a drink? Well... I mean, you can. Where's my fucking liquor? It's your bar. I know. I don't want to be impertinent. Ice? Just ice, yeah. With ice.

I'm telling you, the British can drink like – I remember when I first went to England, every time I went, one of the great things about England is pubs because unlike here in America where we segregate the generations, you would never see someone my age in a club or even in the same bar drinking.

But in England, it's a neighborhood thing. I grew up in a pub. My parents ran a pub. Is that right? I grew up in one on the south coast of England. Wow. Five miles inland. My parents ran a pub, the Griffin Inn, a little village called Fletching. And actually, I think my whole love of journalism and debating and all that kind of stuff came from just observing people in the pub. Because in a pub...

It's like, certainly in Britain, a pub is the pillar of democracy. It's people from all walks of life. You'd have millionaires next to...

you know, sheep herdsmen. Right. And they would be debating the issues of the day. It didn't matter what class they came from. It didn't matter how much money they had. As long as you could stand your round for a pint, you would vigorously, animatedly debate stuff. Right. And then you'd clink glasses and you'd have another pint. I would see people in pubs like passed out sitting on the barstool. You don't see that in America. No. You just do not. And they would just, and it was not a thing. It was not a thing that bothered the other patrons, the bartender. No.

He would literally be like... A rotting carcass was perfectly normal on Friday night. Just like out of it, on the stool, like a nodding heroin addict. Oh, yeah. I'm like, and the British actors, the amount of liquor, all those...

You know, Michael Caine, Richard Burton. Peter O'Toole. Peter O'Toole. Like they'd bring a bottle before lunch and then have like wine at lunch and still do their lines. You know, Churchill used to. Churchill famously through the war, he would get up, he'd have champagne, Paul Roger champagne for breakfast. He'd have a long lunch with lots of wine. He'd then have a 15-minute crucially power nap.

He'd then carry on drinking and running the war. And then at night he'd write voraciously. He'd write these enormous speeches which galvanized the nation. But he would basically drink all day, Churchill. And yet he's the greatest Briton in all the polls we've ever had. I mean, you know, I'm not saying kids do drugs or anything, but...

the amount of creative output that was, you know, lubricated and birthed, really, midwifed by whatever, liquor, LSD, marijuana, you know, I mean, it's just... The Beatles' Sgt. Pepper. What would that have been like? Not just that one. No, but I'm just saying, as an example of an album written on psychedelic drugs, if you took the drugs away, what would they have done, the Beatles, in that period? MUSIC

Club Random is supported by SignalWire. If you've been on a video conference recently, you know how it goes. Laggy, choppy video and audio. It sucks, but still not as bad as having to put on pants for an in-person meeting. But this experience doesn't have to be so bad. This experience can be amazing. That's where SignalWire kicks ass and takes names. SignalWire's tech arsenal allows developers to create better real-time video apps and fast.

From the little things, like actually being able to hear subtle audio cues, to the big things, like being able to support broadcast quality audio and video for thousands of participants. SignalWire empowers developers to create more natural, real-time interactive experiences. Better remote work, remote learning, telehealth, interactive experiences for live sports or concerts.

And with SignalWire, you can build whatever you can imagine because it provides developer tools to help you get your app up and running with a few clicks and a snippet of code instead of months of complex development work.

It's been the choice of TV and film studios for remote looping and audio recording. Visit SignalWire.com slash random to sign up for a free account and receive an additional 5,000 video minutes for testing your app or integration. Go to SignalWire.com slash random. Cancel crappy video and be light years ahead of the competition with SignalWire. Go to SignalWire.com slash random.

We are supported by ZipRecruiter. It's great to keep learning new skills. I'd love to learn how to do a flip on my trampoline or how to own a plant without killing it or how to leave a party without anybody noticing.

That's how you stay sharp, by learning. Like ZipRecruiter. Its AI is always learning. So if you're hiring, their AI gets better and faster at finding the right candidates for you. And right now, you can try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash random. ZipRecruiter uses its powerful technology to find and match the right candidates up with your job.

Then it proactively presents these candidates to you. No wonder ZipRecruiter is the number one rated hiring site in the U.S. And now you can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address, ZipRecruiter.com slash random. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash R-A-N-D-O-M. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire.

By the way, there's a chair over there that's hanging on the wall. Do you see that chair? Yeah. You know what that is? No. It's Timothy Leary. He was a guest at a Christmas party I had 30 years ago, 92. And he was stoned. He's Timothy Leary. And he burned a hole with a cigarette in the chair. So the chair was ruined. So he signed it and dated it and drew a little. Fantastic. So I was like, I could probably sell it on Twitter.

Yeah. But it's too precious to me. Timothy Leary. I don't know if the kids even know who that is. Oh, he's a legend. My age group. Yeah. But he's the kind of icon you'd hope that they would know. But, man. They don't. Kids don't know anything like that.

I've got four kids, three in their 20s, one 10-year-old girl. You've got four kids? Yeah, three boys in their 20s. Same mom? No, two moms. The boys are the same mom. And then I remarried and had a daughter who's 10. But what's interesting is their knowledge of the kind of cultural stuff that meant so much to me is very limited. If I try and get them animated about Paul McCartney or the Rolling Stones or any of this kind of thing, their eyes just glaze over. Well, I mean, I feel like

The Beatles must have some resonance just because their level of success, their pervasiveness. If you try and talk to people in their 20s about the Beatles, it's not the same. Of course it's not the same because they didn't live through it. But they don't get the scale of it. They don't understand the phenomenon of it.

No, they... All the musicianship, you know, I watched the Peter Jackson Get Back thing. Oh, me too. It's unbelievable, the musicianship. When you watch McCartney sit there and just start composing Long and Winding Road, and you think, well, who's doing that now? I mean, people are. Obviously, there are brilliant musicians. But the brilliance of the musicianship

And also, I thought it was interesting, the dynamic between McCartney and Lennon, which I'd always been led to believe when I grew up. McCartney was the kind of sweet guy. Lennon was the tough one. He was the one calling all the shots, running the show. You watch Get Back...

And actually, it's the complete reverse, which may be down to Lennon's dead of mind at the time and other stuff. Of course. Whether that was the case early on. But we knew that. I didn't know that. Of course. So can you watch it happening? Well, then you're not as much of a Beatle fan. We knew he was definitely running the show from well before that. I mean, Sgt. Pepper was his idea. Everything they were doing, John was more...

lazy at that point and also more on drugs and then he met Yoko who he was other directed he once said you know Paul calls me up and he says you know I've written 10 new songs and now god damn it now I've got to go write 10 new songs I had an interesting conversation with Sean Lennon

because I just know him a bit and we were messaging each other about it. I said, what did you think of it? He went, well, everyone else is watching it and obviously enjoying it. But I'm watching my dad in a way that I've never seen footage of my father, which I thought was really interesting. He'd never seen so much footage of his father. The ultimate takeaway from that Peter Jackson thing. And of course, if you're not of that era and you don't love that group,

don't bother. It'll be like watching paint dry because, you know, it's so verite. I mean, it's eight hours or something. But couldn't you have watched more of it? Totally. I could have watched double. Well, just the idea that

You know, it's the way he set it up with drama. Like, they have a month, which is the truth. They have a month from scratch to get together at the beginning of the year and by the end of the month to have a whole new album of 14 songs and perform them. And at first, it's so disaltering. You think, how is this ever going to happen in a month? And they keep X-ing the things off on the calendar. And it's like, of course, they fucking play.

pull it off like brilliantly. But to me, the ultimate takeaway, and I am backed up on this by Martin Lewis, you know him, probably the ultimate Beatles expert. He asked me what I thought of it. I said this, he said, you're spot on. It was always Lennon and McCartney. It's not anything else. I'm sorry, the other two Beatles, they're Beatles and we love them, but you could see the love affairs between Lennon and McCartney, all the interplay

Totally ignores Yoko. This idea Yoko broke up the Beatles. It's like she's not even there. There's always relating to Paul McCartney.

That was the original next. But don't you think the simmering tension with George Harrison's interesting? Yes. Because Harrison actually did do probably arguably the best solo stuff afterwards. So he was clearly breaking out, wasn't he? He did great stuff for, yes, I think through the 70s and then he had a good album in the 80s. You can feel that, can't you? I'm a big George Harrison fan. And see, Ringo doesn't get enough credit for that. Because you barely notice him.

But it all is chaotic around them. You get these guys who just, they're the rhythm of the heartbeat of the band. You don't think Ringo? Also, yeah, I love Ringo. I mean, it's also the case that it's good to have a guy in the band who no one's fighting. I would join you, but it's illegal for me to do that here. You know that? You have to be an American citizen.

to do what you're doing in California. You can't be a non-citizen. So who would do what to you? So it's interesting that the legalization of cannabis in however many states is in America now. If you're an American citizen, it's fine. It's legal. But if you're not a citizen, you're governed by federal law, which remains that marijuana is illegal.

So who would arrest you? I don't know. Americans or English, you say? It would probably be a big issue with, like, immigration and everything else. Do you still live in England? I live there a lot of the time. I've got a house in Beverly Hills, so I come here a lot, yeah. But you're still a British citizen? Yes. And you have a place in London? Yeah. Oh. And that's where your family's based? Yeah. Well, I've got family all over England, but...

Yeah, there's a lot of families. I thought you were going to say, you're like a trucker. I got two families. I got one here. We're not either. My late great-grandmother was the matriarch of the family. When she was 90, we got together, everybody just on her side of the family into one marquee, 104 people. This is a big family that I'm from, and there's a lot of us. But you weren't poor growing up, were you?

No, but I didn't have any money. My parents ran a country pub. They worked seven days a week without much help. They had four kids to bring up. We all went to the local state schools. And we certainly had no privilege. We had no wealth or privilege. We never felt like we missed out on anything.

And of course, life was very different then, wasn't it? That sounds like my upbringing. Yeah. I mean, the house I grew up in, my father paid, I believe, $24,000 for it. Really? You couldn't get a fucking car. Yeah. At 4% or something, whatever the GI Bill was. But we lived out in Jersey. That's what people did. But it was leave it to be for time. Yeah. You know, there was no issues in that town. Yeah.

No drugs? No. No racial issues? Because it was completely white. The difference, when I go to the pubs in my county where I came from, when I was young and my parents had one, then I grew up and went to pubs myself, you never saw drugs in the pubs. Kids would drink beer and whatever and fall over and, like you said, be dragged out.

But the amount of drug taking now in the pubs and clubs in England is, I would say, a hundred times. What drugs? Anything. Ecstasy, cocaine, marijuana. You know, not, I don't think it's necessarily. You're not against drugs, are you? No, no, I'm like you. I'm a pretty liberal guy. Whatever gets you through the night kind of view of all this stuff. What I've been struck by is just the amount compared to what was around when I was young. But you're just a drinker.

Yeah, I just prefer having a drink. Right. I mean, marijuana is not meant for everyone. No. It only really agrees with about a third of the people. I believe I'm not completely pulling this out of my ass, but I'm partly just, this is from my experience, and I've got a lot with it. But, like, some people get logy and sleepy. Some people get paranoid. Yeah.

And some people get creative and it makes them high, literally high. That's the good. But that's not everybody. And if it's not you, if it's not your thing, you shouldn't do it. But I always think, I mean, the idea that people can drink tequila until they literally tequila over it.

And yet they take some sort of high moral position about cannabis. To me, it's always struck me as ludicrous. It's like, do you not understand the inconsistency of this? Well, in this country, I don't know if England is the same, really all the drug prohibitions were racially motivated. It was a way, it was a sly way they used to target. I mean, like when it was the Chinese, it was opium, marijuana, crack.

Crack cocaine versus powder cocaine. It has always been a, you know, subterfuge weapon of racist policies. I mean, I don't know, England. Is the three strikes thing still active here? Oh, that's a good question. Somebody asked me the other day, I couldn't remember. I think they're trying, I mean, yeah. It's such an insane law, isn't it?

Yes, well, it's so typical of the American predilection for zero tolerance, meaning zero thinking. Let's just do something where we don't have to fucking think about it. You know, where we can just, that's three, come on, hit your three and you're out. But yes, there are people who've been gone. The third can be like a tiny fragment of whatever, right? It's like anything.

Right. People have gone away because they stole a slice of pizza or something. I mean, there are stories like that. So, you know, but, I mean, don't get me started on all the fucking things about this country.

We are supported by Masterworks. I'm fighting an ape, and he's got a baseball cap and a gold tooth. That's the dream I keep having because people won't shut up about NFTs. And I'm over it. It takes up all the headlines it could be telling me about actual real things to invest in. Although, through all the noise, I saw something that blew my mind. It was a startup that had just gotten valued at a billion dollars that enables people to invest in real art, not some bullshit energy-sucking digital piece of garbage.

Actual paintings from masters like Picasso, Basquiat, and Banksy. It's a platform called Masterworks. They buy paintings and offer their members the ability to purchase shares of them. That way you can diversify your portfolio at a price point that works for you. Now our listeners can get VIP access to skip their wait list. Just go to masterworks.io and use promo code RANDOM. Again, that's masterworks.io promo code RANDOM.

We are supported by Indochino. Being well-dressed for any occasion is so important. It's always the right time to dress to impress in clothes that fit you perfectly for every occasion. From work functions to going out on the town to weddings, you want to look great while you're standing there thinking this will never last.

Indochino makes high-quality, custom-fitted suits, shirts, and casual wear, all at a great price. You can personalize everything from suits and shirts to chinos and bomber jackets. The online shopping experience is fantastic. You go on, you find your favorite look, and you put in your sizes, and your custom clothes show up in the mail.

My people went on my computer and ordered me some custom shirts, and the process was super easy. You can choose everything about your suit, including the fabric, label, monogram, and statement linings. Love a statement lining. This season, dress to impress on every occasion with Indochino. Indochino.

Get $50 off on any purchase of $399 or more by using promo code RANDOM at Indochino.com. That's $50 off a purchase of $399 or more at Indochino.com, promo code RANDOM.

HBO documentaries have always examined the stories that make us question the world and show us what humans are capable of. The good, the bad, and the unbelievable. On each episode of HBO Docs Club, host Brittany Luce and Ronald Young Jr. take a closer look at a film or series in the HBO documentary films catalog that you can watch on HBO Max.

They'll get updates on the stories, talk with the filmmakers, plus experts to help us make sense of each film's topic. You can listen to HBO Docs Club on HBO Max or wherever you get your podcasts.

You're British through and through, right? Morgan and... I'm actually Irish. Really? Yeah, my father was Irish. He died when I was very young. Oh. I was one. Because that's my heritage. Right. So I'm actually from Galway originally in Ireland. Oh, okay. That's my heritage on my father's side. Because 1922 is when Ireland got its independence. I don't think people understand how much Ireland is a conquered country by the British. They did not speak the same language. Mm-hmm.

They were geographically close. They looked the same. But the Irish was a completely different culture with a different language. And they were subjugated brutally. I mean, there was a lot of...

And the northern part is a British colony. That's part of the UK. That's one of the four parts of the UK. It's England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland. Correct. And, of course, there's a lot of British people there who want to stay. It's been a long time, centuries, since they've been part of Britain. But it's kind of like Hong Kong and China. Shouldn't it be reunited? That's what the Chinese would say. Come on, look at the map.

It looks like it should be part of us, and Ireland wants it, and I don't blame them, and it really is, and at some point it will be. It might be. It might be, and Scotland may go independent, of course. That also might happen. Scotland has voted on its independence and said, no, we do not trust ourselves. It has, but then as time has gone on, there's been more popularity now coming back for independence. Who knows what may happen? The Scots, there are people who are outsized of their numbers,

to their influence. They have great influence, I think, many of the great thinkers, philosophers, great writers, yes, like a higher percentage of many in the canon are Scottish and also very influential here in the American South. Yeah. Scott Irish is

I don't want to say that that's a big part of the problem down there, but it's a big part of the problem down there. There's this warlike clannish that they brought over from fucking the old, really. But the American South, I'm telling you, has a warlike and mean quality to it.

that that is where they get it from. And if you don't believe me, in Gone with the Wind, her name is Scarlett O'Hara. Her father, famously in the scenes he's in, I can't remember the actor, but he speaks with a thick Irish brogue, land, land, Casey Scarlett, land. It's the only thing worth fighting for, worth dying for. And then Scarlett vows that she will never be hungry again. By the way, that movie, I gotta say...

Entertaining as fuck. And the people who need a disclaimer, this is the problem. You fucking babies. It's 1939. Can't you just see by the film stock that things were very different? Humans are like history in general. We evolve. Just celebrate we're not racist anymore. And just be a grown-up. If you have to have a warning about a comedy film...

Well, it's not a comedy. No, no, I'm not talking about Gone with the Wind. I'm talking about just generally, you know, warnings on comedy films where a joke is said, which is clearly a joke, not intended to be remotely offensive to anybody. Right. And even that now needs a warning at the front in case anybody's offended.

What do you think is going to happen when you watch it? What happens to people? They sit there shaking? The fact that this generation needs a trigger warning and a Klonopin to get through an episode of Friends. Bill, it's pathetic. It's pathetic. We've become a world, and I've talked about this a lot, a world where it is now a premium to be a victim. It is celebrated to be weak.

you see that great sporting athletes are now making more money and becoming more acclaimed if they quit than if they win. We're becoming essentially... Well, if you're talking about the one who got the twisties, that's not right. Well, I'm actually... Is that who you're talking about? I can't remember her name, but... I'm actually not talking about her. I was actually talking about the... She did not quit. Well... They drove this...

Olympics, that sickness of taking someone as a child and training them like... I mean, you just would know humanity, really. It's just you are this vessel for America winning a medal. And they drove that poor girl to the... Simone Biles you're talking about. Simone Biles. Okay. So she...

I have no doubt that she maxed out to what she was possibly as a human capable of taking. She didn't give up. I wasn't actually talking about her on this. Who was a quitter? Who are you talking about as a quitter? I was actually talking about Naomi Osaka, the tennis player.

I know less about that. Naomi Osai, I know that name. The interesting thing for me was she just quit in the middle of a tournament. Okay, why? She came up with a lot of reasons why. It was all her mental health and this, that and the other. She then managed to make a miraculous recovery to do the Olympic flame at the Olympics about two months later. And I watched all this go down. Just carrying the flame? Yeah, but...

Well, that doesn't take guts. No, but my point is... If she quit because she couldn't play a match, that's more than just carrying a flame. But I don't really agree with you about that. And I'm not sure I completely agree about Simone Biles because she managed to recover five days later and take part in an individual competition, having let her teammates compete without her and lose to the Russians. So I don't entirely agree. But my general point about it is this. I think that in both cases, and many others at the moment,

There is a weird cultural phenomenon going on where it's almost frowned upon to want to be a winner.

where if you express yourself... Then you're an oppressor. Yes. In some way, if you want to dominate your sport and be a champion and a winner and do what it takes to win... Well, we still love winners. Come on, we just had the Super Bowl. We do. We like the winners. They go to Disneyland. The other losers get to weep in the water. That's true. But if you now quit, if you now give up,

and you just embrace this new phenomenon of, well, I've got mental health issues, whatever the real reason may be. And I'm not doubting sometimes the veracity of that. But you get celebrated more than if you win. And I have a problem with that. I think it all plays to this...

And then everybody wants to be a victim after. Right. Everybody says, I have a little sniffle. And they go on social media. I want you to feel sorry for me. And I want to be celebrated for my little sniffle, which means I can't now do my job. And by the way, if you make me do my job, you're an oppressor who is forcing me to do something against my will. And so this thing starts to spew out.

And eventually weakness becomes celebrated more than strength. Right, which is not to say that there aren't real oppressors in this world. Or that there are real people suffering from serious mental problems. Right, but you are correct. It is a victim culture. It is exalted. And there's something pathetic about it. It's very pathetic. Well, it's the end of the empire. I'm told that. For example, you talked about a stiff up and dip earlier with the British.

I've always prided myself on having a stiff upper lip. I think it's a thing to actually want to aspire to have. What about your penis? How much pride do you have in this? We'll come to my stiff lower lip a bit later. We'll come to a part of the podcast. Some people find it awkward.

But I feel it's generic to what we're talking about. I'm extremely relaxed if you want to talk about my lower genitalia, but I'd rather get back, if you don't mind, in the short term. Yeah. No, I agree with you. No, I just think that we are entering a perilous period of society where weakness is celebrated and the stiff upper lip, which used to be something the Brits...

were admired for around the world. Synonymous with. Right. And we were like, that's a good thing. You know, in times of trouble, the British ability to rise above this, not get over-emotional, not get too down about it, dust yourself down and kick on, that's gone now. Now the stiff upper lip is now to be condemned.

I am to be condemned for saluting a stiff upper lip. How dare I be resilient? But see, this is not to be Arnold Toynbee on you, but this is what happens to successful civilizations. You become so successful, you become...

You become, it's happened to Rome. It happens to everybody. You become a feat. You become soft. You become fat and complacent. Soft. You know what you are? You're Martin Sheen in Apocalypse Now when he's Captain Willard in the hotel room. And he's like, I've been in this hotel room. Charlie's in the jungle. He's getting stronger every day. And I'm fucking karate chopping this mirror and cutting my hand.

That's us. We're in the hotel room, in the mirror, and Charlie... But, you know, you don't want to be Charlie in the jungle. You can't blame us for wanting our cushy life, but it just can't seem to stop us from getting so cushy in the mind. But we used to admire...

mental strength and resilience. And now we seem to be moving to a place where to even say that you should want to have that is wrong. I mean, that is somehow insulting to those who might be mentally weak or who might be, you know, more inclined to be a bit oversensitive or whatever. And unless you're emoting 24-7 on social media, you know, I have a problem, for example, with

with the kind of the global social media days where you're told you have to do a certain thing on Twitter or Instagram. And if you don't virtue signal in that way, then somehow you're identifying yourself, you're a racist, you're this, you're that. If you don't go along with the herd that's decided that's what you have to do to prove that you're not a racist. The one true opinion. And I'm like, this is absolute nonsense. Right.

Why should I do that? That's not how I prove. And they all move on a day later straight back to the way they were before. This is like a momentary, I'm not a racist, look at me, I've done my black square on Instagram. It's kind of like when an actress, when she does like a part where they have to ugly her up. Yeah.

And then it was like, she was so brave. I'm like, it would be brave if she stayed ugly. Yeah. But, you know, she's going to be Nicole Kidman again on Monday. They're going to take the big, ugly nose off. You know, the fat suit will go out in the trash. Yes. You know, not that acting should be something that's really brave. Anyway, Marines are brave. Yeah. But it's kind of like that, you know. It's just you're going to go back to being –

Exactly. I just find myself constantly feeling, what is going on with the world? Like I just saw in the UK today, there was a thing about the fire service or something. They're being ordered now to use him, her, them, their pronouns, whatever. I said, okay, well, fine. Let's take this to its logical extension.

Because pronouns are whatever you want them to be, right? So if I decide I want to identify myself as a dickhead, which many people watching this might think is entirely correct. You know why they're going to think you're a dickhead? Because of the way you said those pronouns. I know. You dismissed it like, and look, it's not my generation's thing either, but I get it that people, you know, sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don't. And people, you know, they just, whatever it is, they want to be that, and it's no skin off my nose. So don't say it like...

convey them that because then you're just... Let me explain why I feel that way. So I had a debate on the morning show before I left and it was about the BBC, which is the British Broadcasting Corporation, paid for by...

You pay a license fee to watch the BBC. Who does? $200 a year. Every UK citizen pays $200 a year. Oh, they take that lolly out of your paycheck? No, you have to pay it as a license fee. How many quid? It's 155 quid. Now that we're in the pub. What do you think of my pub? It's a pretty great pub. It's a great pub. It's a pub, right? But imagine here, if you paid 155 pounds a year, $200 odd, to watch the British Broadcasting Company,

And they were sending out educational videos.

in which they said there were 100-plus genders. One of the genders they said existed was astrogender. Astrogender is an affinity with the stars and the moon. I'm very happy if you identify as astrogender. If you, Bill, walk out today and have an affinity with the stars and the moon, good luck to you, my friend. However, when I said, okay... That is priceless. So a couple of people there, let me just get this straight, because I'm a logical thinking person, I think...

Does that mean then that I can basically identify as anything I want? And he said, absolutely. And I said, and it should be respected. Yes. I said, great. In that case, I'd like to identify right now as a two-spirit penguin. And there was a long silence. And then the inevitable response was, that's completely offensive. How dare you? I said...

You're sitting here talking about 100 genders. I can go out and say I have an affinity as a gender to the stars and the celestial galaxy, but the moment I say I'm a penguin, that apparently is the bar you can't cross. Right, I mean, I had a similar theme. Otherwise it's all bullshit. Well, here's the thing. In America...

Weight Watchers changed its name to avoid saying the word weight. Which is bullshit. I mean, like KFC, I remember, did it years ago, Kentucky Fried Chicken, because they didn't remind people that our chicken is really probably nuclear waste or something. I'm sure it's not. I don't mean to offend the Kentucky Fried Chicken people. I'm sure it's wonderful, pure, wonderful food. I was just kidding.

You try to head off the lawsuits where you can. On weight, for example, right? I'm quite happy to look at myself in the mirror and go, you should lose a bit of timber, as we say in the UK, right? Lose a bit of timber. I've had long COVID for eight months. I've been at a workout like I'd like to. Really? Yeah, bad, bad. Whoa, you're burying the lead here. You had long COVID for eight months? So I got the Delta variant last July. And for eight months, I've got zero smell still.

I have probably 20% taste and I have constant fatigue, which most people who've had long COVID will identify with. It's not like being tired. You're just flatlined. Any overexertion, you get flatlined. You seem fine today. Right? Yeah, I'm fine now. And yet by...

potentially overexerting a misinterview, tomorrow I might be completely whacked. Well, who gives a fuck about tomorrow? I got you now. Exactly. And it's a very strange thing to have experienced. Just give me another 10 minutes and then you can fucking die. LAUGHTER

Can we make it nine just in case I do? But it's a weird thing. I know lots of people who've been through the same thing. Not from Omicron, which is a very different variant and much easier and changes all the game. And were you vaccinated before you got it? Yeah, I was double vaccinated, yeah. And I got the Delta variant. And you still got this sick? Yes. And it's a weird thing because you appear perfectly normal, but actually...

Anyone who's had it knows what I'm talking about. The assault on your senses and the assault on your body is really not to be underestimated. Western medicine loves to divide everything up into a million different categories and then give everything a name. So long COVID, okay, I'm sure that's a thing. They love to name new diseases. But really it's the same old thing, which is viruses are opportunistic. If your metabolic state is sound, too.

terrain versus germ theory. This is a fundamental argument in science, but even Louis Pasteur, the father of germ theory on his deathbed said, of course, we're not denying that there are germs. He's saying it is the terrain that the germ is in the analogy being swamps and mosquitoes, right? Mosquitoes can't breed unless it's in a swamp, right? If you're a swamp,

Anything can take you down and will. America, the main reason America had such a bad time with this is because we were not in good health to begin with. But if you say that, people, like, attack you. They attack the messenger. Well, also, you've only got 50-odd percent vaccination. No, no, higher than 50 here. What is it now? Oh, it's way higher than 50. In America? Yes, but you know what? We were told at the beginning. It's not a lot higher. I think whatever it is, I think it's very close to where they said if we had that, we'd be at herd immunity.

And when you combine it with the number of people who have actually had it, I mean, I think we must have passed herd immunity by now. So there's a saying that certainly would be apropos of someone with the old stiff upper lip in his background, which is a fate worse than death. That was a concept.

I mean, it's a meme, or it would have been if they had memes back in the day, but a fate worse than death. Just the idea that, you know, as bad as death is, that we're not for it, there are some things that are even worse. That's completely gone. That, to me, is what this... First of all, it's so scary that they could...

foment this amount of hysteria not that COVID wasn't real and couldn't take down anybody we don't know everything about it but you know I did a thing recently I just said why didn't we focus on what we know it 75% are people over 65 it kills older people well that's sad but older people they're going to die at some point I don't want them to I don't want anybody to die ever

But Earth is a timeshare. You know, we can't all be here at the same time. So I don't want anyone to die ever. But, you know, the flu kills people. Think...

And then people who aren't vaccinated, like 99%. All you got to do is get vaccinated and you're not going to die. It's not that hard. And then, of course, obese is 78% of the deaths and hospitalizations. We know where are the areas we should address helping those people. That's not how we do it. Because we are stuck in tribal mindsets.

And it's the same in my country as it is here. And the tribal mindset means you cannot change your position dependent on facts. And this is the key problem with what is going wrong with democracies in the UK, the US, many other places too, is that if you start to abandon the ability to change your opinion on things as facts change,

What are you left with? You're left with going back 2,000 years to when we had genuine tribes. You lived in a tribe. Right. And you never came out of your tribe. So everybody in your tribe looked the same, dressed the same, spoke the same, had the same attitudes because they shared it amongst themselves. And then slowly but surely, the tribes began to move out of their own environment and they encountered other tribes. Right.

And the other tribes dressed differently, thought differently, had different attitudes. And both tribes, when confronted with this extraordinary moment, decided the only solution was to kill each other. And we have come now, we're 2,000 years on, but actually we're 2,000 years back. Whether it's Trump or Brexit or coronavirus or vaccines or whatever it is.

You feel obliged now, many people feel obliged to get into their tribe and then they cannot leave it regardless of facts. There's a writer for The Times which has done so many ridiculous things about COVID, but there's David Leonhard. He's so smart and I think he's much more on our page. And he wrote a great line recently. He studies it and he said something like...

being for maximum safety has become a core part of what progressives feel is their identity. Yes. It's like, I'm a better person than you. This is my point about... Superiority. About what I was saying about, you know, death. There are things worse than death. If you believe, no, there is nothing worse. And, of course, we could stop more deaths if we didn't drive, if we just stayed home, if we just stared at our navels. If you and I never left this bar.

And never drank. And all we did was do this. We'd have about a week from it. Right. Here in the pub. But it's like, I'm a better person than you because I am for the maximum safety. And it's a reasonable debate. But I would take this side. I'm not a worse person. I just think life is for the living.

To your point about people are just pussies these days, yes, there are risks all around. When I see kids, like when I'm kids, 20-somethings, walking alone outside with a mask, I want to punch them. I'm like, you fucking personal moron. You're not going to get it outside. Walking alone outside? Or people in cars on the road. What a pussy. Play the odds. You've got the good immune system. And by the way, I say this whole thing of following the science.

I'm like, go back and watch what all the top scientists in the world were saying in March 2020. Fauci was on television saying masks are no good against COVID. But can I just give what I think is the reasonable view on masks? Some are better than others, one for one. They do stop some, and in some instances, like very vulnerable people indoors during a surge,

It makes sense. But the general idea that is in people's minds that they put there, and this is what they bother me so much about, that the way to fight something like a virus is only externally as opposed to your immune system. You cannot avoid and you should not even want to avoid all the germs and the virus. You know how many viruses there are in the atmosphere? It's like 10 to the 31.

They're everywhere. It's part of our ecosystem. It actually makes you more unhealthy to avoid them completely. It's where humans work. But also, look at what's happened with flu globally. So flu was a massive killer globally every year. And since COVID came along, very few people have been dying of flu. And that may well change because of the immunity issues that you've talked about as we go forward. And it might be a big problem in years to come. However...

You get to a position of not catching flu when you stop touching each other and you stop socializing with each other and you wear masks and you have lockdowns. But who wants to live in that life? Not me. Right? I don't want to. You don't want to. Now, there was a moment... Can you imagine doing this with fucking masks? It'd be ridiculous. And...

But I've evolved. In other words, at the start of all this, when no one knew what the hell we were being hit with in places like Italy, where the second best healthcare system in the world was being run over, I was like, okay, well, lockdown until we work out what the hell is going on before vaccines. That seemed to be a sensible position. Now, that's not a sensible position. Now you have to, as they say, live with the virus, right? We have to get on with it.

Okay, we're done. When we're not filming, the drinks are not free. I'm not made of money, asshole. That was really enjoyable. Me too. Me too.