Steven Van Zandt | Club Random with Bill Maher
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LinkedIn, the place to be, to be. My new book, What This Comedian Said Will Shock You, is out in two days, May 21st. He met with me and I said to him straight up, I said, listen, if this is going to be about Bruce, you know, I understand that, okay? Right. But let's stop this right now. Who's going to know about this stuff? You think they're not going to be playing Born to Run in a hundred years? Oh, please. I hope you're right. I'm not sure. I have no sense of time. Really? But since I saw you,

Was it more than a year ago? Maybe it was. Breakfast at the Polo Lounge? When we had breakfast, we had eggs at one in the afternoon. More than a year ago, you think? Oh, yes. I would say three. Oh. Okay. Then yes. I mean, Soul Fire was just out.

Oh, all right, all right. What year was that? That's 2017. No, no, no, no. It was after that. The Summer of Sorcery was 2019. Maybe it was my second album. I do. It's funny what your mind remembers. I remember, well, probably because I play it all the time. It's a great album, Soul Fire. Oh, thank you. Soul Fire. I mean, the title track is great. What's that ballad you sing, The City...

City Weeps Tonight. That's a great- A real doo-wop. You have real chops. I swear it's like singing. I don't think people know that. I mean, that is a song that you'd never hear in the E Street Band. It's almost doo-wop, right? It is doo-wop. It is doo-wop. It's really pretty authentic doo-wop. It's very authentic. It's awesome. It's great. I love that genre, which is really a lost genre. Billy Joel did-

Yes, you know. Yeah. Big hits. Uptown Girl. Yeah. What was that one? Then there was another one that was, of course, deliberately in that style. Yeah. He's a big Four Seasons fan. Right. As am I. I opened for them. Really? Yes. When I was 26, I did one Tonight Show or something and I opened for Dinah Ross.

And then in Las Vegas. And then I opened for Frankie Valli on the tour. Oh, no, no. I'm sorry. This was right before my first Tonight Show. I did the tour. I went right to the – this was 1982. It was their 20th anniversary tour. I was even on the tour bus. That was horrible. Okay.

It's been a long time since you've been on a tour bus. You see what we go through in the rock and roll world, right? What? I mean, the old days. The old days. Tour bus was a step up. Right. You know, from the station wagons and... Oh, the van, right. Yeah, yeah. Tour bus, you were kind of starting to make it. You know? Right. You have a... You have a bus. You know? You're right. Everything's relative. Some guys don't have a bus. No. But now it's a plane.

Which is great. Yeah. And I know you're a big revolutionary, but I hope you don't ever feel guilty. All the environment stuff? Any of it. Having money. It's not a crime. Oh, no, no, no. I got no problem with that. Well, good, because... Because I'm broke most of the time. LAUGHTER

Really? What are you talking? Why are you broking? Well, I got a big overhead. You got a big nut? Yeah, big. Big nut? I got, you know. What's your nut? What's in your nut? Well, I got a record company that, you know, barely breaks even. My entire radio network loses money. The Garage Band one? Yeah.

Oh, it's so good. Yeah. No, that's what I mean. Well, you know, I mean, this is your, the thing I feel like that is most in your DNA is one, integrity. You do what you like, what you want, what you think is important. And two, it never aligned with what,

What the public may think. You're so right. You are so right. And you can't worry about it, you know, because I feel like I'm doing good work, you know, and that's what counts. And you're not exactly starving. No, no, no, no, no, no. I don't mean to be a whining rock star, God forbid. You're not whining at all. I'm insisting that you... No, no, but I'm just like, me and money just don't get along too well. You know what I mean? I just don't... Really?

I'm not an entrepreneurial guy. You got that shirt. I can't. I mean, that thing doesn't look cheap at all. Where'd you get that shirt? I don't know. What do you don't know? That's how rich you are, but you don't know. There was a time in my life, if you went through my closet and where'd you get that? I can tell you exactly where I got that. Because I had four shirts.

My first sport jacket that I bought for doing stand-up cost $5. $5. And then I had it tailored, which cost $20. The tailoring cost four times what the jacket was. But I had my $25 jacket. I still have it. So you opened for the Four Seasons. To me, I did too. What? With the Dovelles.

You opened for the Four Seasons? Yeah. Do we have that in common? Yes. Holy crow. Yes. What year? 1973. Wow.

I joined a group called the Dovelles, which had a couple of big hits in the early 60s. The Dovelles? Terrific. That was before my time. Oh, yeah, yeah. The Dovelles. Yeah, they had You Can't Sit Down and Bristol Stomp. Terrific record. You Can't Sit Down. What was that about? A colostomy? What? You Can't Sit Down. Hemorrhoids. It's a dance thing, a dance thing. Oh, I see. Yeah.

That's so funny. At my age, I hear the phrase, you can't sit down. I think hemorrhoids, not that I have hemorrhoids, but I know people who do and travel with a pillow. But of course, when you're 16, you're thinking you can't sit down. You got to get up and dance. Okay. Not a bad idea for a commercial, however. Right. So there you go. Yeah, you make a fortune. But anyway, yeah, I just...

by some chance, you know, ended up in the backup band for the Dovelles. And I was so glad I got to Vegas in 73. It was like the last year the mob was there, you know? So I got a chance to see the old Vegas, you know, before the new Disneyland Vegas, you know? And it was really different. It was really different. I'm glad I got a chance to see it. Now, when you say last year of mob rule, it's not like the contract ran out, but I know what you mean. There was an era, right?

And a lot of people say that ever was better. No doubt about it. I'm sure that's not true if you were buried in a shallow grave in the desert. You know, recently, this is true. This was in the paper like two years ago when we had horrible drought. You know that. We've had it forever. Luckily, we've had rain recently. And Lake Mead got to the lowest level ever, where there had been water forever.

And they found, like, tons of bodies, pinky rings. Like, just a skeleton with a pink ring. Oh, man.

Yeah. I mean, there was a lot of shit down there. But I agree. It probably was better when it was more of a rat-packy town. That's what it's meant. It's an adult playground. Yeah, but here's the thing. First of all, there was only like seven or eight casinos and nothing in between. So we played the flamingo. Just the strip. When they said the strip, I remember, even when I was there in 82, it was just one road.

Every hotel on either side of one road. That's not Vegas now. But a long way from each other. You know, we played at Flamingo, and Caesars was like three football fields away. It was at the end of the block. You know, and nothing in between. You know what I mean? Nothing in between? No. No. Land, I'm telling you. Really? Yes, there was nothing. There was literally seven or eight casinos on the entire strip, other than downtown. The Riviera.

The sands. Desert Inn, the sands. Desert Inn, the dunes. Dunes, right. Flamingo, maybe, the original. Yeah, Flamingo was the original. Which I was thrilled because... Caesar's Palace is probably the end of the block. You're right. Well, yeah, it was diagonal. There was no Luxor. There was no...

No. But here's the thing. The whole intention of the town was to make money from gambling and nothing but gambling, right? So, you know, these buffets, you know, were like $2.79 lobster and steak. Right, right. You know, the rooms were, you know, $29. Right. You know what I mean? Yes. You know, the lounge was $6 and Frank Sinatra could walk in, you know, $6. Right.

So, and here's the mob problem. The lounge, you mean, not the main... Not the main room, but there was a main room and then there was a lounge. To me, that's what Vegas is missing the most currently is there's no lounge acts. Yeah, that changed, yeah. Which is a shame because that's where you saw Don Rickles...

Yeah, at first. Or you could see acts who were coming up or on their way down. Yeah. And it happened at like 11 at night, midnight, 2 in the morning. Oh, yeah. It's a late town. Yeah. Like, if you want to do something after, like when I work there, I'm playing at the same time all the other shows are. Right. When I'm done, everything's done. And then people go to discos. I don't go to a disco. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So there you are. They're making nothing but money from the gambling. The mob's probably grabbing a third off the top, right? And everybody still got rich. And everybody got rich with no money from entertainment, food, or rooms, right? With the mob taking a third off the top and everybody still got rich. Well, I think they had entertainment pretty much from the beginning.

Yeah, but it was a lost leader, whatever they call it. They lost money. It may still be a lost leader. It was always meant to be. Yeah. Now they make money from everything. They charge you for the fucking Wi-Fi now. I mean, you know. Right. I mean, they're not going to leave a dollar on the fucking table. Oh, no. And they don't know how to treat people anymore. Oh, no. I mean, that's... Not really. Yeah. Unless you're a whale. Unless you're a big gambler. Right.

But even the entertainment, I mean, they've been very nice to me. I was at the Mirage for a long time, and now I'm at the MGM Grand. They're great. I mean, they're very nice people. It's just that, you know, the way the hotel business is, you just can't, you know... I mean, I blame the millennials. I'm sorry, but I do. I mean, like, I have this thing...

long-running thing, and I guess you want to say that this makes me a diva. Okay, but you're wrong. It's not. All I want in my room is a fan. Just one person who's watched all my shows. No, no, an electric fan. I just want an electric fan because it never gets cold enough in the room, right? Do you like it cold when you sleep in a hotel room? Not too cold, but yeah, I know what you mean. I like it cold. Get under the cover. Okay. Okay.

So, and also for noise, you know, white noise. I like the sound of a fan. But I just, it helps me sleep. It's harder for me to sleep on the road. So, like, okay.

You call up, can you put an electric fan in there? If you can't, just say no. But these are five-star hotels. Of course we can. Of course. You know, for Mr. Marr, whatever. What else can we? You know, it's like nothing. Just a fan, water. Again, I don't think this makes me a giant diva. And again, if you can't do it, just say so. But they say so. And then you get there. It just seems impossible.

for a simple message to be transferred for more than one or two people. Yeah, I hear you. And I feel like this has great repercussions for our country in general. Because if they can't get a fan in my room, I can kind of see why they can't close the border if they want to. Just, you know, whatever it is. It's a direct correlation here. I do. I just think people just can't fucking do anything anymore. Well, yeah, I think you're right. I mean...

Part of the problem, of course, is just they got bigger and bigger and bigger, right? You know, until now there's 3,000, 4,000 rooms, whatever they are. That's it, of course. You know, so what are you going to do with that? Plus, since COVID, nobody wants to work. So they're having trouble finding workers. All the hotels that we tour...

always had 24-hour room service. Not anymore. - Right. - You know, they can't find people to work. So partly that, partly the bigness, and partly the corporatization of everything... - Yes. - ...where nobody gives a shit. And one more thing that Frank Sinatra, I really feel had going for him that got him great service.

the threat of violence. And I feel that if what's missing in R, we don't have enough threat of violence so that they're like, oh, the fan? We put three fans in that room. No. They know I'm not going to do anything to them. So...

It was better when Vegas read it. That's all I'm saying. A little threat of violence is not the worst thing in the world when you're running a government. You're not wrong. I mean, why do we have police? I mean, what is that? A military threat of violence. Yeah. Like if you get out of line too much, we allow a monopoly...

on violence, you know, you're allowed, you know, there are people who go into the army because they're like, yeah, I'm allowed to shoot somebody. Yeah, yeah. And cops, I mean, you know, some of them certainly enjoy authority, shall we say. Well, they do sometimes. Enjoy authority. Now, keep in mind, I...

I hold the biggest police fundraiser in the country. I am a big supporter of the police. You know that. I know you are. And a critic. And they deserve it. And I am an independent law and order liberal, which, you know, that's how I describe myself. That's great. And now in New York, we have the opposite problem going on, where the police have their hands tied behind their backs and they can't arrest anybody. Right. You know. Exactly. And they're going crazy, you know.

We have five people, I think, thrown on the subway tracks in the past week or two. Two people in my neighborhood punching women in the face. The no bail thing was big for a minute. You can punch a cop in the face and be back on the street the next day. It is amazing, the recidivism. The number of... I mean, I read these stats many times. Like a third of all the...

like smash and grab type of stuff or like petty robberies are like by the same 600 people who just keep being put back out there to do it. Some of them have done it dozens and dozens, I think maybe even a hundred times. Insane.

And this law that you can steal anything under $1,000 and it's okay? Right. Who comes up with these fucking things? I'm so glad you're saying this because I feel like I'm always in this position where I'm having to explain to people, okay, I'm still the liberal I always was, but this kind of woke shit, if I can use that word, this is not liberalism. Liberalism was never about, yeah, let's legalize crime. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it began with the privatization of prisons, which is the most insane concept ever. And that's more of a right-wing thing. You know, I mean, it's insane. That's a corporate thing. That's a greed thing.

corporations should take over as much as they possibly can. That's definitely a right-wing thing. I mean, you know, hey, let's make crime profitable. Right. What a concept that is, right? So, I mean, there's that going on on the other side. Yes. And look, you know, you're totally right, though. I mean, look, up top, you know, at the higher echelons, it's mostly a Republican problem. And locally, it's a Democratic problem, okay? Certainly in my neighborhood, you know.

I mean-- So you still live in the old neighborhood? I'm in the village, in Greenwich Village. Right. You know? And it was the best neighborhood in New York. It was the best neighborhood in New York. Because? It's terrible. It was just totally peaceful and hippies and artist-type people. Bohemian. Bohemian, you know? And safe, you know? I live a half a block from Washington Square Park. Right.

Living near a park used to be beachfront property. Now, they're homeless encampments. And there's nobody solving these problems. Again, if I may, the difference between liberal and woke. Liberal was in the name of compassion for God's sakes, let

Let's get these people off the street. Right. Woke, that's not their view. Their view is homeless people are like an endangered species that needs to be protected in its natural environment. That's insane, frankly. Living their best life under a bridge. That's it. Yeah.

It is insane. But again, that's the argument. You see why I almost have gray hair now? Because I'm always having to make this argument. And I've heard people come up to me and say, well, I don't like it when you make fun of the woke. I'm woke. I'm like...

No, you're a liberal. Woke migrated to this other place that I'm making fun of for good reason, because it desperately needs to be made fun of. But the word does trigger people, that word woke. It means different things, I guess, to different people. Exactly. People don't... Because at first, it was kind of a good thing, right? At first, it was a great thing. Right, consciousness. Alert to injustice. Right, right, a consciousness about... One would know better than the man who ended apartheid. Well...

No, people don't know. When you were on Real Time, I think you were surprised at the direction I went with that interview. But I really wanted to highlight that part of your life, the least financially rewarding part. While my bandmates bought mansions that tour? No, but what I was saying then, and I will reiterate, it's true, like,

musicians in my estimation I've said this here before I'm sure I think they overestimate their place in changing the world they like to pat themselves on the back and say how we change a music based art no art really can change the world one of the few exceptions is I really feel like what you're marshalling those people for you know it was at the right time for apartheid to fall but I

Peaceful revolutions are rare, and South Africa had one. I mean, they went from an apartheid country to a... And then some of that credit goes to that... Was it de Klerk or whoever? He was the Gorbachev of South Africa, and he... But he was forced into it. Of course he was. Of course he was. But still, to manage it without a lot of bloodshed... Well, that was Mandela's genius of coming out and saying...

Yes, let's be cool. It had to be Mandela. That could have been a massacre. It could have been. Like no one would have believed, okay? But he came out and was like, let's be cool. And again, that's like a liberal thing to do, not a woke thing. Like it wasn't pure.

Purity would have been no we must kill the people who were right. Yes They were wrong and history's always wrong at people are schmucks, but that was such like for practical reasons I always feel like liberals are more practical like what can practically get done and yeah, we should have also punished a lot of the 2008 Wall Street assholes who crashed the market and

But we didn't. Why? Because it would have actually made it worse. So Obama was not pure. He didn't-- I've heard that criticism a lot, you know. "Obama, he sold us out. He didn't put anybody in jail after--" Yeah, because that would have fucking put us in a depression. Warmer, sunnier days are calling. Fuel up for them with factors no prep,

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Thank you, ZBiotics, for sponsoring this episode. Well, I'm so happy to find out that you're not as far left as I thought. No. Depending on the issue, it's issue by issue. I've been writing a political book now for 20 years. I don't know if I'll ever finish it. Really? Oh. And I wanted it to come out. Speaking of which. I have a book coming. I just wanted to give you a head shot of me, really. Although then I remembered I gave you one for Christmas.

I have a book, What This Comedian Said Will Shock You. It looks like a clickbait. I love it. Anyway, it comes out in May. I signed it to you. Wow.

Well, thank you. It's an advanced copy. I think you'll be amused. It has been LOL tested because these are mostly the editorials that I did on real time at the end of the show. Ah, okay. Collected, edited, you know, put them in a set. Great stuff. Only the best stuff, you know. It's amazing. I had 20 years to work with to pull the best stuff. So I think you'll be laughing on every page. Thank you. I love it.

I'm confident now that you'll agree with... Camera, where's the camera? There's no cameras here. It's just us. Thank you. I should sign mine to you. Please do. Did I do that? Yeah, you did it, but you can do it again. Well, first of all, let me just say, and I've said this before,

You were a great writer right from the start. I read your first book. I think it was your first book, True Story. Yeah, that was a novel. Wow, yeah. I'm telling you, it was a fantastic book. I read it when it came out. I think before I even, I'm not even sure I'd seen your stand-up by then or not. And why, I think that's a movie. Why wasn't that ever a movie? It was, we tried to, because I, you know why? Because that's just not my area of expertise.

My forte, I've learned as the years go by, certain lessons, and one is you're not really given that many multiple great things you're good at. So just be happy with the one or two you have. If you have two, that's a lot. So I just don't think that getting something made into a movie, getting the script right, all the stuff that goes in, that's just not my forte. And I think the reason why is...

my mind works this way. Like, this book is great because it's editorials I wrote, which is like me saying one thing, you know, driving toward a point. A script is the opposite. A script is like, I have to think about how 12 different characters think.

It's not really, you know... Well, but you wouldn't have to do it necessarily. In the book it worked because I can do it as a novelist where you can explain everything at length. And it was based on all these guys I started with. It's about my early years in stand-up. So, you know, it was not hard to make composite characters. I mean, a lot of the dialogue is things we actually said to each other. I believe that. I believe that. So...

But in general, that's just not my field. So that's why it never got me. But it would have been a great movie. But you don't have to make the movie. Somebody buys the rights, and you approve the script. I never got a script that I liked enough. And it's so funny. It's kind of full circle. Because one of the reasons I wrote the book

was because I was so frustrated watching how stand-up was portrayed. Like, it's so hard to get it right. When you try to portray it, like when someone plays a comic in a movie, you can't, like... And you can see that they just told the extras who are the audience, laugh at this, but it's not... It never reads like, oh, that really wouldn't get a laugh. So...

Did you go for Mrs. Maisel at that show? I've never seen that one because I was afraid that I would watch it and think just that. It's pretty good, man. I think. Oh, I've heard it's great. I mean, you know, you would know better. But does it show her doing stand-up? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. And it looks like real stand-up.

To my eyes, yeah. I mean, you would know better. It might be that. It might be as a comedian, I'm especially attuned to it, so it's like fingernails on a blackboard. Just the way if you... You see a musician in a movie, it's never good. Right.

You're absolutely right. It's always phony. No matter how they try, it's pretty hard to pull that off. But Lenny Bruce was in it for a while. That was exciting. He's a cameo character, which is great to see him. And he was good, the guy who played Lenny Bruce. Really? Yes. Yeah, pretty good. I love it when people play famous people.

I like impressions like that. Even if it's not an impression, like just... I thought Shia LaBeouf was great as McEnroe. Did you ever see that movie? Oh, I didn't see that. Borg and McEnroe. Oh, yeah, they made a movie about their rivalry. And...

Shia LaBeouf was perfect to play John at that time of his life. Must be kidding. You cannot be serious. And you know what? I love him. He's become such a great friend. He's such a great guy. And his wife, Patty. I know. But he is still him. My friend, there was a party right here in this room. My friend who was a high school tennis player, he goes up to Johnny. He was so nervous to meet him at it.

Go ahead, just say hello. Look at this room. There's 12 people here. And he says, hey, I just want to say hi. I'm such a big fan. And, you know, I was a tennis player in high school, and, you know, I, of course, wasn't on your level. And John stops me and goes, of course you weren't on my level. I was number one in the world. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

I love it when people get caught in the act of being themselves. I don't feel like they ever really captured you. I saw your 60 Minutes. Not bad. Congratulations. That's a big thing to get a 60 Minutes profile. Yeah. I had one in 1997 when the show was moving to ABC.

Wow. Yeah. Cool. I wouldn't, I'd be so afraid to look at it now. 1997? Oh, my God. What the fuck was I thinking? And how did my hair look? Well, I was lucky because they did a good job. And you never know how those are going to go. They did an hour in Rome and an hour in New York and got it down to like 13 minutes. Yeah.

It's amazing. Maybe it's just because I love you so much, but it always just bothers me that they put you... It always has to be something with Bruce Springsteen, who's great. I know he's your boyfriend, and I mean, I'm a fan, a huge fan, but I just feel like that Soul Fire record, that to me is as good as any...

Bruce Springsteen record, and I'm, yeah. Thank you, man, thank you. No, but I have to be conscious of it, you know that. Because it's the same kind of sound. Obviously, you're incremental to that, or instrumental or something to that sound. Yeah, and we have the same influences and, you know, all that, and grew up in the same neighborhood, but

It's something I got to be conscious of my whole life. And I said to them when they called me, because I was surprised they called me. And I was like, first of all, I want to meet with the boss, not some correspondent. So very rare. The boss, Bruce Springsteen? No, the boss of 60 Minutes.

But you'd see why I'd say that. That's his common moniker. You picked. So I found out the guy very rarely meets with anybody, but he met with me, and I said to him straight up, I said, listen, if this is going to be about Bruce, I understand that, okay? But let's stop this right now. Good for you. All right? And he said, no, no, we don't want Bruce to begin it.

Okay? Or nothing to do with them, right? So I gave them one more test. I said, you know, all right, now if you're really serious, you know, you'll come to Rome, okay? Because we're playing Rome. And it's a really cool audience. You know, you can take a shot at the audience, you know. But, you know, no E Street stuff.

And they come to Rome. Okay, so now, like, you know... Of course, if you're a 60 Minutes producer, you want a trip to Rome. It's like, that's what you're, like, gonna fight for the budget. It's so important we do this story because Stevie Vance, I mean, you know, like... This is a gruesome story. It's the war in Syria and this. We've got to go to Rome. Send the other guy to Syria. I'm going...

Yeah, I got to be on the Stevie Van Zandt story. It's too important. So now they're passing every test, right? So now I'm thinking to myself, right to the end of the interview and the end of this whole filming, I started thinking to myself, geez, I don't want Bruce thinking I don't want him in the piece. You know what I mean? Right. It's almost damned if you do. Because they were totally holding up their end of the bargain. Nothing to do with Bruce, you know?

I said, you know what, I'm going to have him come in at the end, you know, because I want him to be in it. He's my best friend, you know. I don't want him thinking I don't want him in the piece, you know. So I had him come in right at the end there, and it was wonderful. It was a nice little, you know, one-minute bit, you know, but most of it was legitimately about my life. Well, I mean, they asked you about the...

You know, you played the consigliere on The Sopranos, and it's, you know. Well, you know, that's all right. That's all right. There are just some things they can't resist in the media. Yeah. I remember almost the first piece I did, I must have been living out here. It must have been 1993, my old house. And they shot me, you know, suddenly they do it in your house, you know, around your house. So, you know, it wasn't a mansion or anything, but it had a pool on the back.

So they shot me in the pool. They wanted to-- I don't know what the fuck. And of course, of course, the name of the article was "In Too Deep." And I just knew that if I had been on a tree, which they might have made me do that too, the name of the article would have been "Out on a Limb." And then they'll fit the article to the picture. Really. Was I in too deep?

They've been kind to you, the media, pretty much. Oh, very. Yeah. I mean, you have a great reputation. I've never gotten a bad review on any record I've ever done. I mean, it's amazing, really. Also, it's kind of cooler to be not the front guy. Keith Richards. A lot of people would, you know. It's easier. Well, it's also like...

Did you see-- oh, it's my favorite of his movies, and I love all his movies. But did you see "Once Upon a Time in Hollywood?" Oh, yeah. Isn't that awesome? Awesome. Especially for people our age who remember TV in that era, how funny it is with all the references to-- the TV we grew up as kids. Remember the FBI, the show, and also "Screen Gems." It's a "Screen Gems"-- The best moment was Leo doing hullabaloo. Hullabaloo, exactly.

But my point is, in that movie, Leo is the front man. He's the actor. Right. Right? He's the star. And he was terrific. And he was terrific. But I'm saying the character he was playing. And Brad Pitt plays the stuntman. And his kind of gopher character.

Right. Best friend. Take one for the team guy. You get shot. Fix the antenna on the roof. Fix the antenna on the roof. Drive me around. But because he is so confident in how cool he is, I mean, it's Brad Pitt, the perfect casting for this. It's like he's cooler. Dean Martin with Frank Sinatra. You know, it depends on your taste.

I'm with you. I feel like a lot of people are in that camp that I'm in. That guy is kind of cooler because he doesn't need the spotlight. It speaks of a greater confidence. I guess I'll never get Bruce Springsteen on this show now. No, it's true to some extent. You have to...

people become that biggest star. He's handled it beautifully. Yeah, I mean, I don't envy that kind of obligation. No, but some people handle it better than others. I mean, to still be as cool as he is without selling out, at that age...

And the quality of his work at this age is astounding. The latest album is fantastic. It was kind of taken for granted, "A Letter to You." Oh, no, I love it. When you read those lyrics, I mean, come on. Incredible, incredible at this age. And I also loved the one he did right around the same time. It was all covered. Oh, yeah, the soul tribute. Oh. Yeah, terrific, terrific.

I mean, you know, we played, where were we? San Francisco the other day.

He flies home to New Jersey to sit in with some country guy, Luke Bryan, you know. Sure. You know, just because he likes him. And then flew back to San Francisco for the second show. I mean, you know what I mean? Yeah. You don't have to do that. No. Well, did you see the documentary on We Are the World? Yeah. Okay. I mean, I remember when the song came out.

like it was yesterday, even though it was 1985. I was doing a little sitcom called Sarah on NBC with Geena Davis, Bronson Pinchot, and Alfre Woodard. We were four lawyers in San Francisco. And I remember being in the makeup room as we were all getting dolled up for the show. And it had just come out, and someone had it on their boom box.

And we all just listened. And Mark Hudson was also on the show. He was a musician, and he was like calling out who all the people were. Oh, there's Billy Joel, and there's Bob Dylan. And I mean, everybody was on that. Yeah, me. And Bruce kind of had the lead.

He had more lines than anybody. He kind of was the... Oh, yeah? Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. And he was very raspy, you know, which worked for the record because it was, you know, and it's great in the documentary that moment where Quincy Jones, they're driving home at 8 in the morning, and he says to his friend in the car, boy, the white guy's really brung it. Yeah.

I thought, what a fucking tribute from Quincy Jones. And he did bring it. But in the documentary they showed, he was in Buffalo the night before. Flew all the way to California, horsed after the show, and showed up and just went, I think, right into the studio. I love that. I love the documentary.

And they're completely wasted and tired. And they're doing the whole thing in one night. It's like 5 in the morning, and Stevie Wonder decides we should have a versus Swahili. Yes. This was the highlight of the documentary. Was it Waylon Jennings? Just walks right out. This redneck don't do no Swahili. He says, yeah.

I mean, I never heard that story. I mean, no one had ever said it. I know. I'm like, oh, my God, that's worth the price of admission. It really is. How do you feel about that? Do you feel he was justified in that to just say, I'm not comfortable? Oh, really, Jenny? Yes, I was told this was going to be a, you know,

I mean, probably looking back on it, he probably regrets it. He probably says, well, they didn't end up doing the Swahili after all, so it probably would have been fine. But you can see both points of view. I'm not that familiar with Mr. Jennings' work, but I don't feel like when I listen to the song, and I still love it,

I don't feel like I miss Waylon Jennings. Well, that's the thing. Like, you know what? This song would be over the top to me, but a little Waylon Jennings. Because I feel like Willie Nelson covers, he's, I love his...

My burning stone to bread, or whatever the line is. Yeah, no, the Outlaws, I mean, I started a whole radio station based on those guys, you know, on Sirius Satellite. The Outlaws, what were they called, the Outlaws? Oh, okay. Waylon and Chris Christopherson and Johnny Cash, you know. Because country radio wasn't playing them anymore.

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Hey, I'll be at the David Copperfield Theater at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas on June 21st and 22nd. I'll be at the Orpheum Theater in Minneapolis on July 13th, and on July 14th, the Riverside Theater in Milwaukee. 85, you were... That's right when you were doing your South Africa thing, right? Yes. You had quit the band? Yeah, yeah. I just got obsessed with politics, and...

But that's the year, right around there, right? Yes, right around that time. I'm in South Africa doing the research. I went twice. And what year did a part that end, 89? Yeah, well, he... What year did they... Oh, jeez, I should know that, shouldn't I? Governments were... Well, you said at the beginning you were bad at times. Yeah, yeah. He gets out of jail around 89, 90. And then I think they had the election like 90, 91. Something like that. Yeah.

What do you think of what's going on there now? I mean... It's not good. Not good. No. Because... Well, I think there's still corruption going on. I think it's... It's so hard to fight that in countries. Yeah, I mean, really, it's tough. I mean, you know. Like, look at Haiti. Oh, man. I mean... It's a shame. Why do you think a place like that just never...

People ask this a lot now. It shares an island with the Dominican Republic, the island of Hispaniola. Why is one place so markedly different than the other? And you know what the Dominican Republic is doing now? They're building a wall. Sound familiar? And they're going to make Mexico pay for it. That part I made up. They are building a wall.

Why one half? What's... I don't know. I was like... Puzzle. You know, the country needs to be reimagined. I mean, they were the first ones to declare independence. They were extremely influential and ahead of their time in a lot of ways. The first ones to get rid of slavery in the Western Hemisphere, right? Wasn't that the... Yeah, some amazing accomplishment. The Toussaint Revolution. Yeah. And...

You know, one bad thing after the other. But I said to everybody, you know, Sean Penn and everybody else was down there trying to help. Yes. I said, like, let's reimagine this place, you know. Have the Amazon and Apple and, you know, go down there and, like, you know what I mean? Put their companies down there or something like that where you, you know, you just have a...

a workforce, you know, and can reimagine the neighborhoods here because there's no other way to save this and bring it back, you know? It just never stops. Well, it's gangs, isn't it? Yeah. The gangs are too powerful. All through now, it's all through Latin America, it seems like, you know? Were you ever in a gang? Huh? Were you ever in a gang? No, no, no. Not a crime gang. A band is kind of a gang. Yeah, well, that was...

That was the thing, you know. What? That was the attraction for me. I wasn't interested in show business. I wasn't interested in the single person in the spotlight. Not at all, you know. It wasn't until when the Beatles came. You're Brad Pitt. You're Dean Martin. Yeah. So when the Beatles came. Bud Abbott. Yeah.

The Beatles came and we had never seen bands before. There were no bands in America. If you went to your high school dance, it was an instrumental group. Really? Yeah. So you didn't see people singing and playing. Like the Ventures? Yeah.

Big, big, you know? What are the Ventures? Why do I know them? Hawaii Five-0. Walk Don't Run, Hawaii Five-0. In those days, there were a lot of instrumental hits on the charts. I always hated instrumentals on the radio. No, I actually like that song. I mean, it was good, but as a kid, you want singing. Yeah. You just do. Of course, of course. I was always, remember Time is Tight?

Yeah, Booker T and the MGs. Booker T and the MGs. Yeah. That's your kind of. They were great. They were the house band, you know, for a lot of. That's your jam. You know. Right? Yeah, they were the house band for Sam and Dave. Is that right? So many others, yeah. Otis Redding. Oh, yeah. That's why they never learned to sing. Get a singer. What does it cost? Nothing. Right? Yeah. You make money, then he.

But anyway, but the bands come, and suddenly there's four guys or five guys, you know, and they were like a gang. They were like a posse, a team, you know, and they spoke. It just communicated an entirely different thing to me, and I wanted to be part of that. I wanted to be part of something, you know, that we're all heading towards the same goal, you know.

And that's when I wanted to be in a band. That's when I started playing. But up until then... The camaraderie. Yeah. You know, all of us who have no musical talent, and I speak for multitudes, even though many think they do. I at least know I don't. But I think we all...

crave that in a way again not just the music but that feeling that you're doing something with four or five or 20 or 80 other people yeah that's so in synchronicity it has to be and when it is you probably feel a connection to them that's very hard for other people to um true

True. No, I mean, and it's satisfying. It has to be very satisfying. Because you're part of a team. It's a relationship that's working. Yeah. You know? It's not easy. And relationships can, like band relationships, can work on stage musically when they're working horribly in

In every other way. I mean, what band is ever not hating each other? Ever. It's true. You could almost not. You could certainly easier make a list of bands who didn't.

No, you're so right. I mean-- It's just the nature of the beast, obviously. And luckily, when we grew up, they kept those things secret. You know what I mean? You didn't know that till later, you know? So you bought the illusion of friendship. So we were third generation rock and roll in the '70s, right? So we bought the illusion that they were all best friends. Third generation. Yeah, the '50s being the first generation. I see. Then the '60s. Yeah. Right. You know, in terms of rock and roll years.

So we bought the illusion that they were best friends. I don't know if you ever-- You ever see the Beatles' second film, "Help?" Of course.

Of course. Yeah, well, you know, that scene where they walk up to four different flats, you know, four different apartments, right, doors. They open the doors, and then they're all in the same apartment, right? Well, we thought that was how it was. You know what I mean? You know, you live together, you're a band, and, you know, you're in the same apartment. The Beatles, I mean, they were so early on the curve of when rock got huge that they really did. I mean, when they were on the road, they're the biggest band

And ever. And they were sharing hotel rooms. They never had their own rooms. They were sharing the mic. How crazy is that? Remember? And I think, and of course. Well, the mic was for harmony balance. And of course, all of that made it better.

That's one reason why they're the primus into Paris gods on Mount Olympus. Totally. Partly because of that. You're talking about the van and the traveling by bus and car. They tell that story of freezing England in

in winter, the van being driven by their roadie. And they're in the back lying on top of each other for warmth. Well, they said for warmth.

No, but can you imagine? And they'd have to switch after a time because the guy in the bottom was getting squished. I mean, that band was tight. Yeah. It's hard to believe they never got their own rooms. It's so funny. Right. But yeah. Yeah.

You know, they were just making up the rules as they went. I also loved it when they-- I loved the sharing of the mic, just as a fan, just as an eight-year-old kid watching them. There was just something about watching them spit in each other's faces from two inches away. But keep in mind, there were no monitors. Monitors was a recent development.

Okay? You know, when they played Shea Stadium... It was the PA system. The PA system. There's no monitors on stage. Okay? What do the monitors do for you? That's what you hear. You don't hear the PA. You only hear the monitors. Right. So you're not... The Beatles are not hearing anything. Right. I know. Okay? Okay.

And Ringo had said he had to follow-- Right. Visually. You know. And I was at Shea Stadium, and they sounded like the records. They sounded perfect, you know? Because they're on the same mic, they could hear each other. So the harmony was balanced and beautiful. And because they were lying on top of each other, and they spent eight hours a night on stage in Hamburg. That's right. You know?

yeah they were forged in a way i don't know if a band will ever be forged again it's it's it's true um it's probably right to right to youtube well that's the problem you know and i've talked about this many many times a lot of you know speeches after speech you know you can't skip that bar band stage man don't skip it it's such an important stage

And these days, you can learn your instrument and make your own record at home and put it right out on the internet, man. But you're skipping that most important stage of interacting with an audience, interacting with a band, seeing what effect those songs have on an audience, all of that. It's like doing stand-up without an audience. Are you saying Justin Bieber isn't hard? Because didn't he go right from grade school to like...

Wasn't he ushered into show business? Am I getting that? Somebody adopted him and then...

Certain genres work better than others, okay? Straight to the online business, you know. But rock and roll isn't one of them, okay? Rock and roll is more like stand-up comedy. Do you ever collab with any... A collaborator? No, come on. You know what? That is not the worst idea anybody ever had, any of you kids listening out there.

You would be a very cool, like, out-of-the-box collab for any of these kids today. You know, the... You know...

You never know. You never know. But you know. You're saying you're not waiting for it. Well, yeah. I'm telling you, it would be cool. But you can't emphasize certain common ground. I mean, the craft is craft, man. There's lots of cool acts out there who I think are great. You wouldn't collab with Post Malone? I wouldn't collab with anybody. Call me. Call me tonight. I'm not busy. Okay.

No, I'd be happy. The weekend? I'd be happy to do it. That would be awesome. I'd be happy to collaborate with anybody. You could fucking, like. I just don't think of it. You know what I mean? I don't reach out to them, you know. Bring the soul fire to Justin Bieber. Could use a little, you know. I'm right here. I mean, look at this guy. What are you, 70 and you got hair on your chest? It's completely black? What the fuck is that? Yeah.

I don't know. And I can tell you don't dye it. No. That's pretty great. No. At your age. I guess. I never thought about that. Because in my mind, I'm still 25. That's probably why. That's probably why you kind of, I mean, we all age, obviously, but you basically look the same. Like some people, they just have a very different look. And some people are just like, oh, that is their look. That's the brand I've gotten used to. Yeah, it's a little rough around the edges. I mean, but...

That's as good as you can do as we go through life. Yeah. I mean, Mick Jagger's about to go on tour. Gotta love it. You gotta love it. He's 80, right? Yeah. To do the kind of show he does at 80? Come on. That generation and, you know, the whole baby boom generation are just completely changing the concept of time and chronological time. I mean...

When I grew up, nobody was over 65. I didn't know anybody in their 70s. I mean, the grandparents were, you know, half of them were in homes in their 60s. They were dead, yeah. Yeah, were dead. I mean, you know. I know a dozen people in their 80s who were on stage working, you know, and the whole British invasion is turning 80. Pete Townshend, right? All of them. Right. They're all going to turn 80. I mean, these are...

You know, my hero's growing up, and they're still out there. You can't go on forever. Well, eventually it'll end, I guess. But, you know, I don't look forward to that day. In movies, I mean, Clint Eastwood, I thought, went as far as you possibly could. Incredibly, because, first of all, I'm a giant fan. I just love his movies. I think he's a great filmmaker. Of course, yeah. And as an actor, also, I think, very underrated. I think he should have gotten an Oscar somewhere.

for In the Line of Fire. Did you ever see that one? It was a good one, yeah. Such a great movie. Wolfgang Petersen's, oh. Anyway. But very late, very late. He's making great movies. Great movies. I mean, the one with Morgan Freeman, I think it did win. It might have won movie of the year, the Western.

Oh, jeez. Oh, you're talking about Unforgiven? Yeah. That was 1992. It was? You don't know time. Jesus Christ. With Gene Hackman? '92? 1992. Oh. He's made like 50 movies since then. That's the most recent Clint Eastwood I think I've seen. You didn't see Gran Torino? No.

Oh, you are in for such a treat. Yeah? Gran Torino. He was maybe 75 when he did that one. How long ago was that? Oh, like 15 years. I mean, he did one, look, he did one like last year when he was 90. And I was like, okay. For all you've given me in the past, I'll let it go. But come on, man. It's done. It's over, huh? I mean, you got to.

You can be a director until you're 150, I guess. But, you know, I just feel like, yes, there is a limit to everything. We are only human. I just love the fact that Rolling Stones is still out there, man, because, you know, that makes us the new guys on the block. But you have a show tomorrow night, right? Yeah. So, okay, so what is your...

I mean, is there any difference in prep? No. When you were 23? No? No. No. In fact, I do more now because I do the meet and greet before the show. You have a meet and greet? Oh, hundreds tomorrow. Hundreds of people. Hundreds. And what, they paid an extra? Oh, no, that's a different meet and greet. I also do that for my foundation. Oh, I see. This is for charity. This is friends. This is just friends? Yeah.

And you do it before the show. Yeah. Because you want to get out of there after. Well, yeah, I have a certain philosophy about this. And everybody's different. Everybody's different. But when I'm off that stage at the end of the show, the office is closed. Right. You know? Right. Now I'm like, no. You know? Yeah.

I'm done. Do you do an Elvis exit? Like where you just go right from the building? Sometimes, sometimes. Really? Yeah. But usually just to beat the traffic. Right. It's horrible to get caught in your own traffic. Yeah, yeah. So most of the time we do that. It's not horrible compared to so many things in life. Not bad compared to the station wagon and the van. We keep things in perspective here. Exactly. But, you know.

But yeah, tomorrow will be LA, New York, London. And these are all-- I mean, this is almost-- But every city, every city, I will do a meet and greet for the foundation. Right. Well, that's-- And I raise-- I'll bet you do. I'll raise $3 million this year. Who wouldn't want to get this close to you? Yeah, we just charge more for the ticket and shake your hand, take a picture. I understand. You know? Oh, yes. That's like $3 million.

you know, for the foundation. Every year or every show? Every tour. Every tour. You know? Now, some people do it for their own profits and that's fine. I don't want to mention any names. Right. Oh, they all do it. Not all, but many. Many. I mean, there is what they call gold circle. Yeah. I've been offered these things. Yeah. I...

To me, I'd have to be a lot poorer before I went for this. And you're right. I could do it for a foundation or something, but I'm not as good as you. I'm just like... Well, not everybody likes to do the meet and greet before a show. They have a routine, like you were saying. Some people have to meditate and do all these things. I'm like... Right. I'd rather... Also, I'd rather give my actual money. It's so funny. When I was younger...

If they asked me to do a charity, I always do it. And very often it was tough, because charity audiences are the worst, certainly for me, because I'm politically incorrect. And charity is like the most politically correct atmosphere.

because it's a charity. We're good people doing a good thing, and it's a good night. So it was always painful to me. And I got to a certain point in my career where I was like, whatever it is, don't make me perform for those people. I'll give you the money.

Whatever money you think I would have raised by being there, I'll just give you the money and not have to face this fucking oil painting of an audience that I could never possibly do well in front of.

I mean, and these people who should love me, like I did one for animal charities. I mean, that's my cause. PETA, I love them. I'm with you. They get the lion's share of my charity, and that's where my, you know, whatever. Some people love babies. I love animals. Okay. Yeah. But I perform before audiences there, and it's like, you know, it's just, come on. You should hate me.

I know we're good people for a good cause, but you've got to loosen up a little. Well, that's why, who was it? It was probably you, among others, I think Seinfeld, or you just stopped going to colleges at a certain point, right? Similar? All of us. I actually quote, I did a piece on it once, maybe you're remembering, and I quoted him. It was him, Chris Rock, and Larry the Cable Guy.

had all at about the same time announced they weren't playing colleges anymore. I had given them up long ago. Because I remember saying, you know, a Jew, a black guy, and a redneck walk into a college campus and they can't wait to get the fuck out of there. But it's true. Like when Jerry Seinfeld, Chris Rock, and Larry the Cable Guy all find it intolerable, maybe it's you. Yeah.

And it is. I mean, college is where humor goes to die. These fucking kids, these Hamas-supporting morons who go to these elite colleges, the mouth of the river from which all the woke nonsense flows down from.

Yes. Kind of an early woke thing in the extreme sense that you were talking about, right? Maybe started with colleges, right? Colleges is absolutely where it is. That early woke philosophy. Because academics, they very often live in this, I mean, that's where we get the term ivory tower.

where everything is theoretical because they're in the classroom and they're very often left-leaning. I mean, they're almost all left-leaning from the beginning. And then they're like partial to theoretical stuff. I mean, communism, which is still fairly popular, even though, you know, on that kind of far, far left, because first of all, the younger ones, they don't study history, so they don't really get it that, yeah, no, we tried it.

It's actually way worse than what we have. Way worse. And makes more people more miserable and is way more oppressive. If oppression is your thing, you do not want to live in a communist country. I mean, you know that. Well, yeah. And again, there's different forms of it. You know, because I spent a lot of time with the Italian Communist Party, which is very different than Soviet Union or China, you know, or whatever they used to be, you know.

But most of the time, people don't actually learn the definition of these words anymore. They just kind of adopt them. But the Italians got over their flirtation with communism. I mean, for good reason. But in its political philosophy, and I'm not here to defend it other than to say, as a political philosophy, it had nothing to do with the...

you know the dictatorship of the proletariat did not mean dictatorship you know i mean it was it was misinterpreted and turned into this fascist basically a fascist on the other side of the spectrum you know uh

But the idea of communism, this idea of everybody sharing things, was not altogether, in and of itself, a bad thing. It was just turned into a very bad thing everywhere it was used. It's not a bad idea. It's a bad idea to take it seriously as a model for how you could govern everything.

Any place, because people are selfish. Exactly right. And you have to take advantage of that selfishness, which is what capitalism does. As bad as capitalism is, it's still better than any other thing because we've tried all the others. True. And all you have to do, if you don't believe that, is watch that movie, The Lives of Others.

The German movie was one best foreign film like 10 years ago, something like that. Oh, you should see that. The Lives of Others. It's genius. It's about East Germany, you know, when it was communist. And just how, like, and this is factual. I mean, they reflect it in the movie and the story. But two out of the three people of the citizens were reporting on the other one. I mean, you just don't want to live in that country or a country where you can't get rich. People have to think, I could be next. Right.

I might win the big check next time. They just do. It creates energy. And look, this country has a lot wrong with it, but one of the things we still have going for it that I know when I talk to anybody who's young or foreign is they still feel, well, this is a place where you can reinvent yourself and

uh every day and maybe make a fortune and there's not a lot to hold you back if you're willing to really have something new and work hard and true you know a lot of countries don't have that no they stop you no it's it's true absolutely true you know we could just a couple little fixes would make a big difference man you know i mean some kind of you know

A billionaire tax, I would start with, you know what I mean? I mean, when you start sending ships to Mars...

You know, maybe make a little too much money. You know what I mean? Well... I mean, it's something to consider. That's why I always compare capitalism to a raging river. Like, you wouldn't want to reverse the flow of the river because that's communism. It's not going to work. Right. But you want to harness that power as it goes in the direction it's meant to go to towards selfishness because we are...

But you do need dams and locks on the river because otherwise you do wind up with, I mean, we're going to have a trillionaire at some point. Trillion. And the disparity of wealth. At top levels, it's insane because I've read pieces where people prove that even if you tried and you were up 24 hours a day, you couldn't spend all that money.

you couldn't spend $200 billion. It's really hard. Unless you're building a ship to Mars, you know. Right. And, you know, spending too much on Twitter and then killing it. Well, Elon legitimately believes, and this is an opinion I don't share but deserves respect, I think. He legitimately believes that we need to be a two-planet species because...

we're going to fuck it up here. And I agree, we do look like we're going to fuck it up here, but we've always looked like we're going to fuck it up here. My argument always has been, knowing what I know about Mars, which is, you know, I'm not what an astrophysicist knows, but I do know there are basic facts, like it has no fucking air, and it's 200 below zero, and there are dust storms that last for six months, and you would have to live underground because the radiation...

That's what I know about Mars. So my point is how bad would we have to fuck up Earth where it was worse than that? And it was like, if it was worse than that, okay, I just call it a day. But I'm not going to Mars. No, I mean, that's nuts. But he's sincere about it. And he's probably right. We probably will need a side piece planet because we're going to fuck this one up so bad.

And if you think the human race should continue, some people don't. I don't care. I really don't. Do you? Would it be horrible? It hasn't gone well. It has gone well. It's amazing how well it's gone. Look at us. But not for 90% of the country, of the world. That's not true anymore. That's not true anymore. I mean, the amount of progress we have made

in the 21st century about what they called extreme poverty, like people who live on a dollar a day, people who, you know, there was a time when a billion people defecated in the street. Those stats have all gone way down in the 21st century, muchly due to capitalism, even though there are purists who are like, how dare they build sweatshops? Because you know what? Sweatshop was better than

-Shitting in the street. -The rice paddy. The whatever. -Yeah. -The rice paddy, exactly. Whatever. And it's a bridge to-- I mean, look at all these countries like Vietnam and Korea and Singapore and like Malaysia and China that started out like agrarian. In our lifetime, we've seen them move to sweatshop and then to a really discernible, respectable middle class. India.

You know, has a lot of poor people. It also has a very big middle class. Yeah. And some very rich motherfuckers. True. True. But just, you know, if you just kind of even up the score a little bit, I think it would make a big difference. And if Musk, you know. No, it's true. I agree. You know what I mean? I agree. If Musk put his money into, like, maybe some practical use on the ground, you know, rather than going to space, you know, maybe things would improve a little bit more. This is the guy who already gave us the electric car. So you can't, you can't.

rob them of that? Maybe the stupidest invention ever. The electric car? I mean, come on. Why? Oh, not the electric car. I mean the self-driving car. Okay. I don't know. I didn't mean the electric car. Which one is... The self-driving car is the stupidest invention I've ever heard of. I agree. I mean, all it's doing is putting tens of thousands of people out of work.

And are you going to trust one of those things? No. I mean, you know, that's got to be the stupidest invention ever. Also because they're very, to work properly, again, theoretical versus real life. In theory, they work because they're tested on like very smooth, good roads. I live in a rich neighborhood and the roads are horrible. LA cannot give you the kind of roads you need to have for self-driving cars. And they probably never will.

But I mean, it's insane. It's insane. And they spent billions on this. Billions. He's got a lot of bad ideas. He's got a lot of great ideas and a lot of bad ideas. Put a lot of bad people back on Twitter.

A lot of bad people. Well, and you think people should be banned from free speech? Well, I'm kind of with the Germans on the Nazis. I got to tell you the truth, okay? I've just about had it with this First Amendment stuff, okay, at this point. I'm like, you know... That's not very liberal. No. I'm issue by issue. But I'm telling you right now...

You know, Nazis are a special class of people in my mind. They definitely are. But then you think they just disappear? That's the problem. No, no. Like, wouldn't you rather know what they're saying? No, I know, I know, I know. And you have a good point. You have a good point. And where do you, you know... But, you know, if you own the thing, you know, do you have to let them in? I don't know. We're at a dangerous point right now. Are you optimistic? No.

Yeah, a little bit. Okay, I don't think he's going to get reelected. You know, I really don't. You mean Donald Trump? Yeah, I really don't think so. I think this wannabe fourth Reich, you know, that he's part of, I don't think he'll succeed, but we have to admit that

Oh, it's very impossible. He's smarter than our... He's certainly smarter than our justice system, okay? I mean, that we know, okay? You know, forget about the Justice Department. He's smarter than our justice system. I mean, at this point, it's not built for people like him. Well, a lot of... Spitting in judges' faces. A lot of history, there is a theory they call the great man theory of history, which basically is saying, obviously, that...

Certain men come along, men because most of history, but Joan of Arc may be in this category. Person of history will say that's the important person, the Winston Churchill, the Napoleon. Other people say, no, you know, history has its giant tides that ebb and flow and people just basically manage them. I would say technology matters.

is the determining factor in most of history, the technology changes and people that, then we just have to adopt. But in the great man theory, who are you talking about? I have to forget a minute ago why I started this whole conversation. Well, the Trump, the... Oh, no, I was the great man theory. Like, I feel like with a great man in place where Robert Mueller was...

or a great man in place where Merrick Garland is now, I feel like...

things could have been different. I feel like a great person in those jobs. I think for like Mueller blew it. I'm with you. I did a whole thing on it once. I'm with you. And I feel like Merrick Garland blew it again. Here we are almost four years after the elections right around the corner and nothing has still come to trial. I got to blame that at somebody. I got to say that. I'm with you. I don't blame the bad guys. I blame the good guys. You know, we're the tough good guys.

You can't blame the bad guys for being bad. That's what they do. Okay? You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Who would know that better than... You know what I mean? Who was your character? Yeah, Silvio Dante. Silvio, right. You know, I blame the good guys. You know, I don't blame the RNC for the problems we have. I blame the DNC, you know? Do you have any acting things coming up? You like to be an actor, too. I know. I want to get back on TV, but I'm stuck in... You know, we got to...

We postponed a lot of shows, so this whole year now we'll be making that up. Yeah, yeah. You know. So the tour is just starting? Restarted, yes. For how many? We will do 52 shows, I think. In how long? The rest of the year. The rest of the year. You get a month off here, a month off there, but mostly the rest of the year. Do you ever do two nights in a row? Never. That's good. No, it's very civilized at this point. I mean, very. Right.

You know, it's wonderful. It couldn't be more civilized. I mean, sometimes two days, you know, a lot of times two days off in between shows. So you always feel fresh.

Yeah, you know, at this point, you know, it takes a day or two to heal, you know. Right. It's like playing a football game. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Your voice, you know. And it's very physical. Yeah, I mean, it is for Bruce. For Bruce it is, because, you know, you're up, you're standing up for three hours, that alone. The show is still three hours long? Yeah, yeah, just under, yeah. That's a long, yeah, that's a lot, that's a lot of, you know.

Your fingers must hurt. Well, that's what I mean. Do they? We're in good shape. No, once you're in shape, it's okay. Really? But that's what I mean. If you have two days off in between. Just mentally, you know what amazes me? How you guys can remember all the lyrics, all the chords. Well, I have to tell you, I don't mean to blow our cover here, but there are teleprompters now.

Of course. Yeah. Yeah, but a lot of bands still don't have them. But what about the notes? Well, on my teleprompter, it's Chord Zen lyrics. I'll just go full hog and get a fucking hologram. Well, that's next. That's next. I saw the Avatar show. I saw the Abba Avatar show. It's quite remarkable. Wait, the what? There's an Abba Avatar show in London.

They're showing what the future's going to be. It's going to be avatars. And what does it look like? Amazingly good. It looks like Abba. Yeah, it really does. And that's going to be the future of this. But you can't tell it's a...

No, I mean, maybe if you were in the first row, but we were 20 rows back, and it looked very good. As if you would not even know it was not ABBA. Pretty close, yeah. And for the Renaissance period of music, which ended, that stuff that's not being replaced ever again is going to live forever, I think, as ABBA times. What is the Renaissance period? Well, I consider...

basically the 50s, 60s into the 70s as a Renaissance period, where the greatest art being made was also the most commercial. But that's not what Renaissance means. Renaissance means rebirth. Renaissance has to do with something from way back when. The Renaissance is... Art.

But it's taking the ideas of stuff from antiquity, you know, which were dormant in the Middle Ages. Well, but shrink the time now, the chronological time, to the 50s being the naissance. Okay. Right? The 60s becomes the renaissance, where the best art, the greatest art was also the most commercial.

That's how I define a renaissance, all right? And that's not being replaced. It diminished every decade since, you know, in terms of the quality level. Well, of course, the kids would just say, that's in your opinion, Grandpa. I don't think they would argue with that. Oh, I do think so. I don't know. I think every generation... Look, I don't get a lot of what the young kids listen to music, but that's what my father said.

I agree. I agree with you. That's what our father said, only we're right. But I never, you know, I didn't diminish Frank Sinatra's value. I learned about it later. You know, I mean, I didn't like it at the time when I was growing up, but I certainly love it now.

And that's what kids, by the time they get to 17, 18, 19, everybody goes through a pop period. That's natural, right? Right. 11, 12, 13 years old, you're into pop music, you know? By the time they get to 16, 17, 18 now, they discover The Doors, they discover Led Zeppelin, they discover us. We get a lot of kids in the audience, you know? And, you know, the pop stuff kind of fades away now. It's a little bit more transparent, a little bit more...

You know what I mean? As opposed to the 60s when pop music was the greatest music being made. It was wonderful. And I don't know. Yes, it's a matter of opinion. It's a bit subjective, I suppose. But all I know is there's not going to be a whole lot of future...

Looking back at this period of time, I don't think musically. There's exceptions to the rule. Of course there's exceptions to the rule. I'm pretty much exactly where you are on this. Except that, yeah, I don't feel like there's anybody who is consistently putting out just sheer number. I mean, I go by how many songs are in my iPod of yours. That's how I...

And could I put together a great playlist of stuff from the last 10 years? Yeah, but it would be like two from this person, one from this person. I could do it, but it's just, to me...

There's so much more crap surrounding it. Now, when we were kids, there was crap too. You know, of course. I mean, there was bubblegum music, which we didn't like, or maybe we did. I don't know. We say it now more. Bubblegum? But even bubblegum. Not yummy, yummy, yummy, I got love in my tummy. That was bubblegum music. No, but Sugar Sugar, did you hear Wilson Pickett's version of it? Sugar Sugar is not the worst. It's not my favorite, but I agree. It has potential. Yeah.

I mean, sometimes, you know. You could do a funky version. He does? Oh, it's fantastic. Really? It's fantastic. You've got to get it. Wilson Pickett? Yeah, Wilson Pickett. But anyway, your point, though, is correct, of course. You know, of course there was lesser stuff. But we had pop, you know, rock and roll pop hits. There hasn't been a rock and roll pop hit in 20, 30 years. And also, here's the difference. Our stuff from that era...

is still heard all the time. Commercials and movies. People know lots of songs from this late '60s, especially, or '70s, '80s.

But when you go back from when we were kids, if you go back that same amount of years, 55, nobody knew anything from exactly 19. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. This music has really endured more. That's right. And that's why I think it's very important right now for the publishers or the writers or whoever it is to change the law, okay? Because you can record, if I record a song,

You can record that same song without any permission. You have to give a little percentage of it, you know. You have to pay a percentage of it, whatever, nine cents a song, whatever it is. But you can record the same song, right? That's not true in movies and film. You know, you need a special license, okay? And right now, because the record industry is dead, okay, there's no more record sales other than Taylor Swift and Beyonce, right? You know.

And it all goes to Spotify. Well, that's the thing. You get no money, okay? But worse than that, you know, you got a bunch of whatever, 25-year-olds with a song list with a number next to it. So if you want to make a movie or a TV show, you ask for the song, they look at the number, and they charge you that number, which is always high because there's no other income, right? Right. Well, the problem is I know right now three or four great documentaries that

that are not going to come out because they can't afford the license to songs, okay? And this is a real problem. And I think 10 years from now, 20 years from now, it's going to be a problem because all this music is going to die. If it's not promoted and heard like you're talking about, you know, it's going to be like Motown Who, Rolling Stones Who. No, it's not. Oh, yeah. Oh, no. Believe me. Believe me when I say this. All right? When we started...

music and movies was free. It was free. It was part of the, you know, Artie Scorsese didn't even ask for permission to put Be My Baby in Mean Streets, okay? Because it was free, you know? And people thought of it as promoting the records. Nobody's promoting the records anymore. When our generation goes...

Who's going to know about this stuff? You think they're not going to be playing Born to Run in 100 years? Oh, please. I hope you're right. Oh, of course. But it would be helpful if they saw it in a movie where a lot of kids discover music. You see it in a movie. You see it in a TV show. Things have come back on the charts from a song in Stranger Things. I hear you, bro. But I've got to say, of all the problems in the world, I cannot put...

movies are going to be bereft of great songs, like right at the top of the list. No, not at the top of the list. But I'm just telling you right now, a lot of documentaries...

They're not going to come out. And I just feel it shouldn't be a permission thing. It should be a percentage of the budget. You know what I mean? If your budget is $200 million, then 5% or 10% can go to music. But if it's a $10,000 documentary, you know what I mean? How much do you think documentaries have actually changed the world, like actually changed? Getting back to my thing about you and apartheid, I really think you put an issue on the map

And then soon after, there was movement. It started a ball rolling that didn't stop till it was finished. I do find that very rare. And not to pick on documentaries. I mean, I made one, Religious. It's a documentary, a comedy documentary. It did very well about religion. And there are people who come up to me privately when I'm out and say, you know, I saw your movie, and I'm an atheist now. But I don't feel like, well, it's

Okay. Yes, I guess one drop in the ocean, you know, here and there. That's all we can do. What else can we do? Well, I do feel like your apartheid thing was bigger than a drop in the ocean. I feel like it actually... I got lucky, though. I got lucky, okay? The timing was right. You stepped into a thing, and you saw an issue, and you laser-focused on it, and you... That is...

really an anomaly, because honestly, as W.H. Auden wrote once, art is small beer. He said art never stopped one Jew from being shoved into the ovens. Well, if they see a documentary on the Holocaust, it might keep this Fourth Reich out of the White House.

I don't think it will. I just don't think people... One vote, two votes, nothing? I don't know. How do you know it might make them vote for him? You just don't. These kids today, kids today, with the marching for Hamas and the crazy haircuts and the jeans. Oh, they... As I say, we drop them as stinkpons on Vietnam. Am I right, Stevie? Oh.

Okay, we'll be back to rock chat. Let's do a show together. I should be on your radio show and do rock chat. Yeah. Because I know a lot about music. I'm sure you do. No, really. I do. People note that. I mean, just as a fan. It's very liberating to not have any musical talent because then you're just a fan. Really. Yeah, any time. Any time.

You never asked me. We'll invent a new segment. You know what I mean? The Bill Maher coolest songs according to Bill this week. Something. We could do something. Well, we could do a whole show on the iPod as opposed to modern streaming.

even though people are probably sick of me hearing me talk about how I still use the iPod. But I would like to have the time and space to make a full brief for the iPod, the old iPod, the one with the circle in the middle. What? It looks like the transistor radio. It looked like a transistor. You're right, it did. I remember having a transistor radio at the beach on Long Beach Island. Oh, yeah. Do you know Long Beach Island? We used to, you're from Jersey, right? Yeah.

You do? I know the area, yeah. Did you ever go there? Yeah. That's Jerry Blavitt territory, right? What's that? Yeah. Famous DJ. Oh, no. But isn't that near where you're, Asbury Park? No, it's further down. Of course it is, but not that much. Was it considered bougie to you guys? Maybe it was a little more. No, it's 45 minutes. Right, and I guess you had to...

Well, see, there was a storm in 1962, a hurricane or something that blew the houses all the way from the ocean into the bay across the island. And it was declared a disaster area. So my father swooped in in 1964 when it was like a disaster area and bought a beach house for $18,000, a duplex. Good move. Yeah. Right on the beach? Yeah.

It was, I mean... Across the street. There was the beach, and then the street started, which is barely paved. And there was one house, and then we were the second house from the beach, yeah. I mean, you could be in the water if you ran in 90 seconds. Right, right, right, right. Oh, yeah. You were protected by the wall, right? There was like a wall, a stone wall? Oh, no? Just a road in between? It was a jetty at some point, but I mean...

Yeah. Okay, because when you get up a little bit further north... No, I mean, that's one reason why it was so cheap was because that did happen once, but I guess they just were like, fuck it. And at some point, they started to build again, and people, I don't know. Got suckered in again. I mean, there's definitely no wall. I mean, how can you build a wall? You can't build a wall. No, up like Seabright and Long Branch, there's a stone wall in between the beach and the road.

You know what I mean? On the other side of the beach is a big wall. That's fucking ugly.

Who wants to live there? Until the hurricane comes. Yeah. Then it kind of... Well, I don't want to live by the water at all anyway. So you still have the house down here or no? No. I mean, we sold it in the 80s. I mean... It's probably worth $10 million now. It is. It probably is. It's amazing. I would shutter the thing. It's probably a million-dollar property. Your father had the foresight. Yes, 18. But...

But you never went to the Jersey Shore? That wasn't a part of your whole... Oh, yeah. We were considered... I was in Middletown, which is, you know, 20 minutes inland. What county is that? Essex? Monmouth County. Monmouth, right. We played all the beach clubs. That was part of the circuit. Right. So, yeah, we were... That was your Hamburg. Yeah. The beach clubs. Yeah, and Asbury, and the Upstage Club. What are beach crowds, better or worse?

What, now? Like any time. Like beach. Because I feel like the beach is a different, is a world of its own. Even though we live, I only live like, what, 10 miles from the beach. Whenever I go out to the, you know, like Hermosa Beach or one of those towns, it's like a whole different world. A different culture. Yeah. Yeah. Not better. I'm not criticizing. I'm just saying, I don't know what the crowds would be like. Would it be more laid back? Or would they be like so relaxed they were great? I don't know.

Well, you know, that whole scene was the first stoners, the first surfers. They were all kind of ahead of the curve with that stuff. But, yeah, a little more relaxed. But we never were a member of a beach club, my family. It was middle class, but not that high up. But we played all the beach clubs, you know. And it was mostly middle class audiences back then.

It was great because when you're a teenager, especially then, there's no rules. No adult telling you what to do because they didn't know what rock and roll was yet. It's so great you had that because I'm sure as long as it's been now that you've been in front of the stadium crowds, I'm guessing it just never gets old.

you never like take that for granted having lived through the lean years especially now it's it just must be such a joy to hear so many people so excited by you yeah no you know because i have i have a record label with a lot of little bands you know and we can't get people to come out you know i mean uh i just because we just did a tour

with four bands, all of whom could tour on their own. Terrific bands. We didn't do 50% of the capacity of any club. It's hard to get people to come out. So you're so right. I don't take it for granted for one minute. When you look at that list of who

makes the most money touring it's almost all the older bands i mean obviously taylor swift yeah beyonce there are ones that probably are at the top but like other than that it's paul mccartney it's it's the rolling stones it's yeah you guys yeah you two are the new guys they're the latest right they're the latest ones to break through probably the last ones that break through

All right. Well, I mean, there's a couple, you know, Green Day, you know, there's some that do well, but... You don't look like you need to rest up for the show, but I'm going to let you go and release you back into the wild because... I don't know, I kind of like it here. Can I live here? You can. I'll sit here all night. They told me you had to be out at 7. Look how good I did. Oh.

What is it with the drugs? You have such a good life. Why do you need drugs on top of it, huh? It's been so long, man. I don't even remember. Yeah, me too.