Tim Pool | Club Random
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I... So how long were you an atheist, and what did we do wrong not to keep you? I went to Catholic school, and... Oh, well. Bill Maher. Hey, man. It is an honor and a privilege. Aw, sweet. Thank you for saying that. I know you flew in on your own dime. I can't tell you what a compliment that is, and I appreciate it. Oh, I appreciate you having me. I'm excited. And...

They told me, not that they ever tell me much, and I like it that way, but that you don't drink, so... No, but I'll have a shot or two with you. I can't tell you how often this happens. I said it last week, I think. Like, somebody was here, and it's like, you know, the handlers are always like, well, you know, he's a...

He's recovering and he doesn't want to be around smoke and he doesn't drink. And then they're like, hey, bro, why aren't you passing the joint or could I have a drink? Yeah, I'm not like, I just don't really drink because it doesn't, you know. It's smart.

What's the worst thing for you? I'm kind of health terrified. What does that mean? I try to, you know, every day I have a pretty intense schedule. I do a morning show, then I skate and I'm filming skating with my crew. And so I'm trying to make sure that every day I'm going to be at 100%.

- You're like Brian Johnson without a perfect penis. - Oh, all right. - You know who he is? - Are you referring to the guy who did steroids or the guy who's doing the weird medical treatments to-- - The guy who wants to live forever. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - But you know about Liver King too, right? - But he, who? - Liver King. - I've heard of, who is that, what is that? - Just super ripped guy. - Liver King. - And his name is also, I think his name is Brian Johnson as well. - Whoa. - Yeah. - Maybe that's the secret. - Doing steroids. - But what does the Liver King do?

He does something with his liver to make him live forever?

He eats liver. I think that's what his thing was. I didn't really follow him. Not his own, you're saying. No. Oh. Well, but I think his whole shtick was he eats like raw meat and claimed that would make you ripped and manly, but he was doing steroids, so. Well, oh, he was. Yeah, I mean, that's what, I don't know, man. Well, that'll make you ripped and not manly because it makes your arms bigger and shrinks your balls. So I hear. I mean, like, I never understood that kind of a trade-off.

You know, like, okay, I want to excel at this, I assume, so I can get checks. But then when I get them, my dick, I've got a mushroom dick, you know. There's so much weird stuff now. Like, I've had guys talking about, like, peptide things they take and HGH stuff.

And I'm just like, I don't know, man. I'll get old. That's what I'll do. I agree. Yeah. I mean, I had this actual discussion with Joe Rogan on his show. And, you know, he does the exogenous creams and stuff. And I think he's pretty upfront about that. And it's legal. I mean, we're not talking about steroids. We're talking about testosterone cream. Yeah. But, I mean, testosterone does decrease.

As you get older, that's a fact. And of course, that makes you, especially if you're a male, only if you're a male, I guess, with testosterone, less healthy. Just ask Joe Biden. Oh, no, too soon. Sorry. We wish you well, Joe. But so, you know, I said, yeah, that stuff is scary to me because when you...

Anything you do that the body isn't doing naturally always has the possibility of some bad repercussions. And like if you had like cancer cells in your body, and we all have some, you know, sometimes you do something to make you healthier and it all soups up the thing that's not healthy.

And he had a good answer, though. I said, you know, I'm afraid that this will make me unhealthy enough. He said something like, well, I do it because I'm afraid to be unhealthy, which is, I understand what he's saying. Without the proper amount of testosterone, your health does suffer. So he's putting it back in. You know, we don't know. That's the thing about medicine. We don't know. I think it's also bad for your heart, though, isn't it? Testosterone.

testosterone i'm sure it's bad for a lot of things it's look if it's bad for your balls it's got it's got to be bad let's keep those i mean i just go by that test wouldn't you i mean it's just that's i i feel like sometimes the people who know the most have the least common sense perhaps i mean you know you know uh one thing that uh i've been dying to tell you given the chances uh

You know, I do this talk show, I do this news show 20 years ago. Oh, I know. Well, it's your fault. 20 years ago, every Friday, me and my friends are hanging out at, shout out to Roger and my boy Brandon who works with me now. Where is this? Chicago. Chicago. And they were stoned off their asses.

passing the joint, blowing pot smoke into an iguana's face while we watched Real Time with Bill Maher. And I was 18 or 19 years old, and that's what we did every Friday. Wow, that's so cool. Watching your show. I love it that they were blowing the pot smoke. And the iguana loved it. Who did? The iguana. It loved getting stoned. Oh, the real iguana. Literally, there was an iguana. And then one day, I guess, the iguana got out and started eating their pot.

So it was like, this is not a good thing, but also kind of funny. Animals do. I mean, I remember with my dogs, not that I would do it on purpose. You know, I would not blow smoke in their face. I'm a PETA board member, for Christ's sake. But like if I was smoking and not thinking about it and the dog was sitting next to me, I would see him like trying to like bite the air. So that told me something about pot. Something about it, huh? Unlike testosterone, I use the common sense method.

yardstick and it told me that the pot is not bad for you if the dog is trying to eat it out of the air did you mix your tequila I don't want to yes did you I think you said shot did you want it oh I'll just sip a little bit and then wash it okay okay oh that's good what is it do you think

That is making people so mad at you. Fake news. Well, that's very general, Tim. It is, but... Fake news. What do you mean? I mean, I saw a thing. Somebody sent me. I don't know why they sent me these things. Like the other day, it said, I mean, I'm not even on any of these sites. Facebook, nothing. Instagram, wouldn't know how to get on it.

It was Bill Maher's old girlfriends. And it was just like a cavalcade, some of which were my old girlfriends and some of which were just completely pulled right out of their ass. So fake news, my point I'm making is it covers a lot of territory. For sure, for sure. There's a hyperpolarization happening among the younger generation that's substantially more pronounced than the older generation.

And the younger generation is substantially more considering violence than the older generation did.

So when you look at the polls, it's really interesting how the polarization expands. I can see that. So, you know, I would say like the bulk of our viewers are probably in their 30s. So we have 18-year-olds too, but they're a smaller percentage, but basically 25 to 54 is who watches us. Right. Got a lot of people in their 30s. And what ends up happening is, and this is true for people on the left or right, doesn't matter who you are, someone's going to take something you said, it's going to be pulled out of context. Of course, of course.

And then it makes people go nuts. So, you know, there's so many of these things that are absolutely wild for me. I don't have the worst of it. There's other people in media that have it substantially worse than I do. Their Wikipedia pages are just rife with weird fake nonsense that's made up. I mean, I just don't feel like anybody...

in this country can even presume that what people think about them is anywhere near the truth. And if you do think that, you're very naive, and people are just going to want to believe. Somebody told me just the other day that, speaking of girlfriends, this one is funny, this one wasn't in that list, but they could have put it there. But somebody, they were out to dinner with a few people, and this person said,

said that I used to date Ann Coulter. I've heard that. I have heard it. Okay, well, but it's not true. And both of us would say that. Now, am I friends with her? Yes. And anyone who doesn't like that can go fuck themselves. I'll be friends with whoever I want. I think I proved that over and over again, including with Donald Trump.

You know, I believe in talking to people. Are you? But it's not like I've ever, to either one of them, given an inch on what my beliefs are. It's not like I'm taking in. I just think we need to talk to each other. And anyone who doesn't want to do that. But, you know, this idea that the...

image that people have of you is anywhere near what you really are. I, yes, that got way worse in the internet age, but I think it was almost always thus. Absolutely. It just, it just, it goes both ways to the, the, the, my fans think they know me based on seeing my face for, you know, well, to be honest, I do like five hours of recording a day, but those that watch, they watch several hours a day and they think this shows them everything about me. Right. And, um,

To be honest, the people who watch me are much better informed as to who I am than the people who don't. But they still have this probably rose-colored glasses view of who I am and what I represent and stuff.

So better, you say, rose-colored. Yeah, they're fans. But sometimes fans, I mean, about a month ago, during my monologue, this had never happened in over 600 tapings of real time, but during my monologue, I see a guy in the audience with his phone out taking a picture. And I stopped the monologue. I mean, I just went, I walked over, I said, what the fuck are you doing?

there's no taking pictures here. And then, you know, the audience left and I said, it's so disappointing when even your own fans are assholes. You know, because like it takes a lot to get tickets to real time people write in. Wow. And he was a fan. And it's just, but like people can be assholes even when, even your own, you can't ever be so purist as to think,

Well, you know, the people, the good people. I mean, that's one of our big problems, I think, politically is like this idea that we're the good people. We know what we know. It's good. And anyone who doesn't agree with that, well, they're an existential threat to America.

And that happens on both sides. I agree, but, you know, it is a weird position for me to be in. I was talking to some friends before the show, and I was saying, like, I think that if you and I discussed policy solutions for the country, I'd probably be to the left of you. In some ways, yeah. Probably most ways. You're like Bernie.

I did. I like Bernie, but I don't want socialism in America. You know, more than what we have, we already have plenty. But the issue is today, I feel like what defines someone politically is not, uh, it's not the policies they want, but it's what they believe to be true. Correct. Exactly. Yeah.

Yeah, Matt Taibbi writes about this. I'm a big fan. He's amazing. Yeah. And they call him far right now. I sure don't. Well, I sure don't agree with everything he says. I mean, he's wrong about Russiagate and a lot of other stuff. But first of all, he's just funny.

He can say things that make me LOL. That's, I cannot say that about many writers. Just the, the, the choice like description of something in one or two words is just very often just priceless. Um, but, uh, what were you talking about? Why did I bring up my tape? What did he say? What makes someone liberal conservative? Oh yes. He writes so well about this and about how, um, the, the,

Modus operandi of news organizations used to be informing the public, and then it became audience stroking. How can we interpret this thing that just happened?

in such a way that our audience will give us likes. Yep. I like that. I like you said it that way. I like your point of view because that's what I already think. And that's, and I hate them. And so I like. He's right. He's right. Yeah. No, and it's just, it's just. I worked for ABC, started a, ABC and Univision did a joint venture in 2014 called Fusion. And I was at Vice and I moved over there.

And then they told me that the new trend was going to be called mission-driven storytelling. And I said, what does that mean? And they said, there's no such thing as objectivity. Everyone is subjective. So we're going to tell the stories that our audience wants to hear. I had a meeting with the president and he was talking to me about this. And I said, does that mean if there is a news story that is true and important, we would choose not to report it because it might upset our audience? And he said, yeah, I think that's fair.

The company went bankrupt. They fired everybody. But this wasn't unique to them. They were chasing the trend. One of their marketing guys told me explicitly, we want to maximize shares because we have to maximize views. We have to maximize views because we've already sold a set amount to the advertisers. One company bought 500,000 views from us. We don't complete that contract until those views are delivered. How do we deliver them? Angering moms.

Middle-aged women who are angry share more than anyone else, so we're going to write stories that do that. That's actually what he told me. So it was social justice. It was racism. I just pictured my writers all guffawing just because, you know, I'm always in a—I've had, like—

a writer's room since 1993, Politically Incorrect. That show went on there. I was a little kid. Yeah, I'm sure. And it's, you know, the joy of my life, one of the great joys is having a writer's room. I've said this before, but like Paul McCartney once said, I'd rather have a band than a Rolls Royce, and I'd rather have a writer's room. But a writer's room has always been me, The Bachelor, and then like

10 guys who were married and are always making like just in the room. This is not going to be on the show, but like always just making jokes about marriage and how they don't get laid and they don't get blown. It's like, it just never telling you don't get married. Well, they're just, it's everybody does it. I, I watch TMZ every night. The, the guys, the people in the, uh, you know, the gallery that Harvey talks to, they're,

It's the same thing. They're just endless jokes that are made about how much marriage sucks. But if you say a bad word against it, they're like, you're the crazy one. You're a newlywed, right? I am, yeah. Awkward. No, but I agree. I think, you know, I'm 39, and I just had my first child. And it's amazing. And I just got married. And I do think for the millennial generation, largely,

Every TV show, we didn't have these wholesome family shows. Everything was like Marriage is Scary and Bad and Mocking Marriage. Which ones? Married with Children. Yeah, I was on it. Oh, wow. I was a guest star. I played a game show host on Married with Children. I mean, it was a funny show. You can look it up on YouTube. I'll take a look. You should. It's pretty funny. But I understand that there were those moments where they loved each other.

But it very much was this slog of like, oh, no, I'm married. It's peg. Oh, geez. So what do you think happens when these millennials grow up and they get these red pill dating guys saying everything they grew up hearing is true, but not comedy serious? And then they end up believing it. Okay. But, Tim, the reason why those jokes work is because that's how people do feel about marriage. Yeah. I'm lucky, I guess. You're a newlywed is what you are.

We've known each other for almost 20 years. 20 years? Yeah. So you married your high school sweetheart? I guess technically. Wow. Yeah. That's like something Dick Cheney does. It's pure luck. I am lucky.

I am lucky, which camera do I look at? Just look at me. We're both from Chicago. We both like the same music. We have very similar views. We're both lapsed Catholics. And it's like, I got lucky. Oh, I'm a lapsed Catholic. We could have a throuple. Pass. No, I am lucky. And, you know, it's weird how I see all these stories and people talk about marriage. And I'm like, it sounds like you got married to someone you don't really know.

Because Allison and I know each other very well, and we get along very well, and we're both very rational, reasonable people. That's a great thing to find in a woman. I know. And I don't mean that—I'm not saying women are crazy—

Men are also, or let's put it this way, we're both crazy and it's not like men aren't emotional and blah, blah, blah. But I don't really care about that aspect in men because I don't date men. What I care about is the opposite sex. And if you can find a woman who's sexy and also rational, that's great because they sometimes, let's just put it this way, they sometimes don't go hand in hand. That's true. Yeah.

You know, it was funny though. I was talking to my wife and I made a joke. You know, I said, bitches be crazy, yo, which is a line from that movie. And then she goes, are you kidding? She's like, I've watched you guys out there at the skate park. You guys are nuts. And I look out the window and one of our, one of our team writers is like trying to jump off a building. And I was like, she's right.

Men are crazy in different ways. Different ways, of course. We got a guy who, so we bought these things called grabbos, okay? They are handles with vacuums that you can stick to a wall.

And I bought them because they were funny. Handles with vacuum. Yeah, it's okay. So it's this oval, and it's got a handle on it. You take it, you press a button, put it on the wall, and it... Oh, it's like what Tom Cruise uses to climb down a 130-story building doing his own stunt in Mission Impossible. And they say Scientology doesn't make you crazy. Well, so one of our skateboarder team riders, Mike Noggle, decided he was going to jump up on his board against the wall, grab them, and then flip himself upside down

And then he fell on his head and he had to go to the hospital. And so I said, you know, my wife is right. Men are crazy in different ways. Again, no doubt about that. It's just doesn't matter to me because I don't have relationships with men that involve, you know, you know, once in a while, uh, there have been guys and guys I like and, uh, have, uh, I'm not going to mention anybody specifically, but, um,

They will get a little girl-like, and I will have to say to them, bro, I don't have this kind of shit with women. You think I'm going to have it with you? Like, I'll call you back when I'll call you back, okay? No nagging. If I wanted to be nagged, I'd have gotten married. Again, I wouldn't do this for a woman. So just don't be so clingy.

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Make it easier to get a place that gets you. Visit Apartments.com, the place to find a place. So how does your wife like West Virginia? I think she likes it. You know, I think... She likes green anchors. She wishes, you know, out of her. She wants to be in Montana. Wow. Yeah. Where in Montana? Anywhere.

Actually, probably Wyoming. And she loves skiing, and I would love to go there as well. In fact, we looked there before coming to Western Maryland, but it's impractical to try and do an in-person news show from Wyoming or Montana. Well, why is it any more impractical than West Virginia? Because we're an hour from D.C. So, yeah, you land at Dulles, and you're an hour, hour and a half, and you're in the studio ready to go. Right.

Yup. I looked at Maine too, you know, cause we were, we were like far away, middle of nowhere, safer, more secure. And, uh, we need the internet. So East coast is best. Um, half the country lives in the East coast. Right. So if we could, we would have done Wyoming and then, you know, been skiing and farming and whatnot. Well, this is, this goes to what I always say about politics, I think, which is that it's an outgrowth of personality. Obviously your personality is, uh,

You want to be remote. You're not a city guy, even though you're from Chicago. That's not your personality. I mean, you're a guy, West Virginia was not remote enough for you. You wanted someplace with an even bigger sky. Montana, Wyoming. Eventually.

I think eventually, I think for us it's...

I never enjoyed being there. I like the suburbs. That's what's just my personality. I know. I agree. Maybe that's why I'm sort of like somebody who both sides can talk to because I'm not exactly a city dweller, but I'm also don't want to live in the middle of bumfuck. You know, you know, what's fascinating is my neighborhood from Chicago turned red. And so my audience, the biggest demographic is location wise is Chicago. Yeah.

And it's a weird position to be in because to see—Chicago's liberal. My neighborhood was by the Midway Airport, and it's a lot of firefighters and cops. Yeah. And it's largely, like, Polish immigrant and then, like, white working class and Hispanic. And it turned—it flipped for Trump in Chicago. And I think— Some parts of the Bronx, too. Oh, wow. I think my politics are, like, if you were—

I'm like a Chicago liberal, but the way things have gone, especially with the woke stuff, is where I end up in this position, and so does my neighborhood. I think it's interesting to see my neighborhood reflective of my politics and vice versa. I think the phrase I was using last year was aggressively aggressive.

non-common sense or uncommon sensical. And it's like, I accent aggressively. I don't think the woke people who have the vast amount of energy, really, in the Democratic Party understand why the people vote against them. And it's like, because if you add up, like,

How many people are really affected by some of the aggressively uncommon sense things? It's probably not that many. You had a great bit on that. Yeah. Why are you pandering to 400 people? Of course. Okay. But...

When you add up these things and, you know, men competing in women's sports and like just too much indoctrination of children with sexual ideas that they're too young to understand. Like when you add up all these things that get in the media a lot, it paints a picture, not a wrong picture in the mind of the average voter that, yeah, maybe policy wise, I would do better under the Democrats or Bernie Sanders, right?

But these other people just seem fucking crazy. They seem like committed to just going to absurd lengths just for shits and giggles, just for the fuck of it, just this bizarre attachment to things that are just ridiculous. I think it's...

to hate the other side. It is. And that, and that's certainly the other, what the other side does, they call it making you cry your liberal tears. The, the right, the entire policy, uh, well, not always now, uh, there are some things that have different motivations. Um, you know, I know you're involved with the tariff debate because, you know, that works both ways.

Sometimes free trade does hurt people, and that's why there are tariffs. Trump is not the first person to advocate tariffs. He's just the first person to do it in this kind of crazy, haphazard way. Right. I agree. I think that when he announced selective tariffs, I was like, all right, let's go. Then when he announced universal tariffs, I was like, I don't know if that makes sense. What is he doing?

And I'm, you know, but I'm not in, I think one of the problems that we've seen over the past several years with Trump is the immediate assumption that there's not, that he's a crazy person all the time. And so the only thing I can say is, well, you know, I vote for the guy. I think this is probably doesn't make sense to me, but I'll see what happens and we'll see if it makes sense. Selective tariffs, I think, do make sense. But I do think that the way the Democratic Party is handled is

opposition, has guaranteed the kind of Trumpian politics. Well, I'm sure you heard about my little trip to the White House. Absolutely. And thank you. And the thing that upset the far left so much, these same people who believe in the crazy things I was just mentioning, and the ones who really hate me, they really found a new reason to hate me because when I came back and gave my report about it,

You know, among the things I said to your point about everything is he crazy was, I think, word for word, a crazy person doesn't live in the White House. A person who plays a crazy person on TV lives in the White House. Yeah. And they found that very triggering. But again, as I said many times during that piece, I'm just going to tell you the truth. I'm not going to, I'm not, I didn't vote for him.

I think we all know that. I went right back to being as tough on him as I ever had been. So I wasn't like seduced, but that was my estimation. Again, to your point about, is he just crazy? When you meet him in person and spend that kind of time and he's not on his attack mode thing, yeah.

He does not strike you as a crazy person or a person who doesn't listen or can't hear things. Again, they were very mad at me for saying this, but that's what happened. And I am not a liar. That's my main bond with the audience. So even if I offended some people by telling the truth in the long run, that's what I do. And they, yeah. What, what, what I saw in 20, so in 2020, I was not going to vote for Trump. I'll never vote for Trump. I don't like Trump.

And I donated the max to Andrew Yang and Tulsi Gabbard. And my position, my whole thought process was the Democrats are going crazy and we need the moderate, sane Democrats to maintain control of this party and stop the insanity. Correct. And they lost. And they lost. And so then Trump put out his statement around August saying –

We're going to ban DEI in government contracting. We're going to do these things, blah, blah, blah. No new wars was big for me. I'm a very anti-interventionist for a lot of reasons. And so I said, I guess I'm voting for Trump. Instantly, it was like the liberals, even YouTube, they all said, we're going to move your name over to this list. I kid you not. There's representatives at YouTube. They told me straight up that the liberal rep was no longer representing me and they were switching me to a conservative rep. It was the weirdest thing. Yeah. And I'm like,

It's not that I like who Trump is or that I'm like thinking that conservatives have a good policy. I'm pro-choice. The issue is that the, the, the, the, you can look at it right now. There's no, there's no charismatic leaders. There's no front runners. There's no policy position. It seems like the only thing they ever had is they have is the right is bad. Trump is bad. And so I'm asking like, what are, what are our plans? No, they, they, they have, uh, Democrats have, uh,

Policy positions on everything, and many of them are, I think, preferable to Republican policy positions. Number one being they concede elections. That's kind of a big one with me. They listen to what courts say. I don't know about that. You don't think they listen to what courts say? Joe Biden ignored the court rulings twice on forgiving student loans and then tried to decree the Equal Rights Amendment. That's true. That's true.

But I'm not saying that to defend Trump. I'm just saying like... Club Random is brought to you by the Freedom From Religion Foundation.

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There are arguments, of course, the Republicans, that just works for them because there are issues like what you mentioned, which is not untrue, where it's so easy for them to go, well, they did this, so we're going to do it five times worse. And then they do. But there are some like that. But there's one that has no fuzz on it, and that's elections. When Democrats lose elections, it's over the next day.

Kamala Harris, Hillary Clinton. Not Hillary Clinton. Just... Not Al Gore. Well, Al Gore, that was not Al Gore doing that. That election was obviously...

decided by 537 votes, there was an absolute, when it's that close, there should be a recount. And whether that recount went the right way, we'll never know because that state was run by Catherine Harris and Jeb Bush. There's a really good, I guess, I don't know if you'd call it a philosophical point that I've noticed that I think you're experiencing right now is I'm 39. So you lived through a lot of these administrations and these political cycles. Yeah.

And you have experiences that I don't even know they exist. Yeah, but you know what? I didn't live through Lincoln, but I know about it. Sure. My point is,

My experience in politics has been the Democrats have challenged more than Republicans. To be fair, Trump's— Have challenged the court? Challenged the elections more than the Republicans have in extreme ways. That's ridiculous. But perhaps because you're older than me and you've seen more than I have. Again, there are history books. There's newspapers. I know. You don't know something only because you lived through it. I know about the French Revolution also.

I mean, you could know about this. Indeed. I mean, this is something that people your age say all the time, and I've made fun of it before. Like, if I wasn't alive for it, it didn't happen. I don't have to know about it. I'm saying that in 2016, I didn't vote for either Trump or Hillary, and then I got three years of Trump is working for the Russians.

He was not working for the Russians. Jonathan Che went on MSNBC and said he may have been a Soviet asset since the 80s. And so for me, I'm like, I'm out. This is crazy. And so, like, understand, and I'm not saying you're wrong about history. I'm saying that experiencing a political cycle over years is different from reading the condensed history books, which of course I do.

So to live through four years of a president, their term every single moment, the history books gloss over most of those experiences that we don't have as young people. So I have people on my show who are 25. And one of the people who works for us says nothing ever happens. She's 24.

And this is like a Gen Z thing. Nothing ever happens. And I said, are you kidding? The past 10 years have been nothing but happenings. Here's the issue. When she was 14, she wasn't paying attention to politics. When she was around 20 years old and started, this was the natural state of politics in her experience. So this is basic. This is normal. And for me, it's crazy. And I think for you, it's crazy.

But they grew up in this and they've normalized it. So my view is this, not to say that you're wrong, obviously. My point is when I watched the Democrats accuse Trump and Manafort and Carter Page and all of these things, especially when they fabricated evidence against Carter Page.

I'm just like, wow, I can't believe the Democrats are going to this length to deny an election. You're watching a little too much Fox News or somebody who's slanting this a certain way. I mean, Paul Manafort was sharing polling information with a GRU agent. And do you know how they found out about that? How did they find out about that? Ukrainian government officials shared it with the Democratic Party. Politico reported that. So...

You have this Ukrainian interference in our election as reported by Politico.

And I look at that and I go, wow, the Ukrainian government sent incriminating evidence to the Democrats? Crazy story. Then they claimed Donald Trump. But it was true. Indeed. And the issue is, why wasn't that a scandal, that the Ukrainians were interfering in the election? Let's not get – because this is a friendly thing. Let's not get into the weeds on, like, the Russia thing. First of all, it's like five years old, so people are bored with it. Okay. But I'll just say this in general. Okay.

It would be hard to argue with it, I think, but I'll just say it and maybe we can just move on. Whatever it was, I don't think Trump was a Russian asset. Don Jr. at one point said, or maybe it was Eric, we do get a lion's share of our money.

you know, to the company from the Russians. So there was obviously a lot of involvement with the Russians. Trump was asked at his first press conference, and he said, I have no dealings with the Russians. It's a total, complete lie. They had lied. Nothing, it's not illegal. But it just looks suspicious to say, I don't know anything about the Russians. I have no dealings. And they're like, I don't know anybody who's talking to the Russians. Everybody in the administration, Michael Flynn was...

was prosecuted for it, was talking to the Russians. He said on TV, Russia, if you're listening, I want your help with something. Okay, whether you think that's good or bad, it was completely unprecedented. So like the idea that he should not have been investigated for, there's a lot of smoke here with Trump and Russia.

To me, okay, I'm sure they overdid it as everybody overdoes everything. But there was a lot of smoke, enough to investigate. And what he was asking another country to do in our elections publicly was unprecedented. We always had one rule in this country. We're going to go against each other. Yes, Republican, Democrat, we'll do whatever it takes. But we don't bring in ringers.

From another, from outside. Ukraine. They brought that in the same election? Yeah, I forgot the name of the woman. This is on Politico. You can just read their story. It was, I can't remember the guy's name who reported it. No, it's possible that, again, there's always some version of it on the other side. It's just not as egregious, I think. You know, they're accusing me of working for the Russians now, and this is, or they tried. And so here's the story. I get contacted by a conservative personality.

I've got three shows that I host, several that I have staff that host. One of them is called The Culture War. We produced it for two years, Friday mornings, similar to this, sometimes debates. And I was reached out by like three different companies who said, we want to license something you're doing. And I said, we do our own internal ad sales. We don't need to license. Some offers were made. Some of them were really good. And I said, I'm not really interested because the ad sales I can generate exceed your licensing.

So I get reached out by this company in Tennessee from a well-known, prominent conservative personality who works for one of the big companies and said, we've secured an investor. We want to license the show. We negotiated terms. Lawyer negotiated terms market rate.

non-exclusive license for distribution. They could sell the ads on the show. I get the money, the licensing fee, which basically, you know, I can choose to grow the show for two years or just license it now and take the money. You sound like you're a naturally savvy businessman. Maybe. Well, this didn't work out too well for me because what happened was at the end of last year, the DOJ indicted some random, I say random because they're not personalities from Russians. I

who are apparently in some Eastern European country, claiming that they were funneling money illicitly into this conservative company in Nashville to then promote Russian propaganda or something. The narrative now is Tim Pool was prosecuted for working for the Russians. The real story is the DOJ launched an indictment and dropped it almost immediately with no evidence.

accusing a conservative personality of illicitly taking money from the Russians without evidence, destroyed the company, destroyed their lives, and then impugned the honor of anybody who had done any license agreements with a Nashville-based company.

Boy, you really hit people's nerves. But I didn't do anything. I tell you what I'm not going to do is show up unannounced at your door in the middle of the night. Hey, Tip. It'll be like Sonny on the causeway, you know? It'll be the end of Bonnie and Clyde. I'll just be like riddled with...

Yeah, boy. It's a crazy story. You got to take it as kind of a compliment. People care. That's true. I don't know. But does it make your wife nervous? Does she hate it? Is she like, get out of the game, man. Yeah, oh yeah. Get out of the game. Really? Uh-huh. And what do you say when she says, get out of the game? Yes. You do? You're going to get out of the game? No. Yeah, last October. Stoop.

I basically was just fed up. With the game? With politics. Oh, the game? Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And I said, you know, before I started doing my nightly show, I work 16 hours a day plus. I was going to say, you've got so much going on, maybe just cut back.

You know, less hours, more guns. Maybe. Here's the problem. And I know that you can relate to this. I've got employees. I've got staff. Do you know you can have a harpoon legally in some states in this country? I like that. In case you're attacked by a whale. But if I stop, then I got to fire everybody. Well...

You know, I mean, that's a noble thing and I've heard it before from people and I always think it's bullshit. It's like you're hiding behind that. You really want to keep working because you know why? Like you achieved a big thing. You know, you were a big success. No one saw it coming, including you, right? Did you think you were going to be this when you were 15? In some form, yeah. Oh, really? Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, I'm a kind of piece of shit. But doing this exact thing? Uh...

Or close to it? Close to it. Yeah, I'm the same way. I knew I was going to be a comedian before I was 10. And then I imagined, I mean, in my day it was Johnny Carson, so I imagined being that. But it morphed into more, no, I think a political talk show, but also a gregarious, charming host would be a great combination. I think people who claim otherwise are lying.

Not always, but come on, you didn't try your hardest and grind your fingers to the bone to get here thinking you weren't going to do it, you know? No, exactly. You did it every day. But I'm saying, like, I'm sure you're doing this to keep your staff employed, but really, you want to do it because, and why wouldn't you? You're 39. If you quit now...

Uh, man, you're, first of all, you're going to regret it because, you know, once you quit, can you get it back? Yeah. But audiences move on quickly. Yep. Quickly. They do now too. No, I'm saying, well, they always have. Yeah. Um, like when you go, you think you're so indispensable and this is anybody and you're not because there's always people willing to wanting to take your place.

And it happens no matter what. You could be at the top of the heap. Just me sitting here right now with you. I would say that real time from my circle, I don't know, but I feel like it's the most consequential political show. I appreciate that because it is, even though the problem is that most of the...

most influential media is controlled by that far left that hates me. So they will never give it up to me. They will never like write about it, say that nobody ever covers it. You know, it's just like their thing is like, even though the audience is always there and, and almost always in much bigger numbers than the things they do cover. One, one of the biggest videos we have, I think is us talking about what you said.

But here's, it's interesting. That means so much to me because like- It's not always good things we're saying. Yeah, but at least you're watching. Right.

And you're allowed to be wrong. Yeah. I say similarly, but my point is there are people that I bring on my show who are in their 20s and I'm like, man, I've been watching you for years. And I'm like, one day you will be sitting where I am and I'll be retired and that's the way life goes. I don't even care if everybody agrees all the time. It's just that

It's about, and I think you would say the same for your show, it's about taking you seriously. It's about having the credibility to have them listen to whatever you're saying. And then you can say your thing. But usually they know, well, maybe he's not completely wrong about that one. You know what I'm really interested in?

is real clear politics put out this aggregate polling by decade age. I don't want to say demographic because it was like 18 to 29 and it was like 30 to 39. And only one bracket was anti-Trump and it was 70 plus. And then I think Gen X was a tie. And then there's, you know, I really want to talk to you about this too. They're saying that Gen Z is becoming more Christian

Yep. And moving to the right. Heard that too. I'm wondering what's going to happen in 10 years. The boomers are going to be moving on, passing on. I'm not trying to be crass, but it's true. Or retiring. You can say dead. They'll be dead. Yeah. And what happens to politics in this country? Not me, haters. Bill's going to live forever. Fucking haters and clickbaiters. The pot and the boo is going to make you young. I mean, do I look like I'm in Death's Door? No, you look pretty good.

I mean, do I act like it? I've never missed a show, except the two they forced me to miss when I had COVID. They forced me because, of course, I could have contaminated the entire city, could have died. I think I would have died, to be honest. You would? I got real sick. Pussy. Yep, yep. And then Joe Rogan saved my life. How?

Are you American? No. Well, technically. So I had called the hospital because my temperature was low and I was shaking really bad and I was like really bad pain. I wouldn't say the worst pain I've ever had. Okay. Why are you in such bad health to begin with? Because unless you're in bad health to begin with.

I was fatter. That's it. I always said that about COVID. Who does it kill? Fat people and very old people. I'm sorry, but that's just the truth. That's just the truth. No, obviously it can kill anybody and blah, blah, blah. And we should protect, we should, you know, the most vulnerable, but that's who would kill. That's what bugged me about like all of our medical profiles are unique.

That's why I don't like one-size-fits-all diagnoses. They were banning people off social media, shutting down anybody who brought it up. It was a weird time. And it still is weird. And there's...

Yeah, I don't know. So what are you going to do if you quit the game? What are you going to do? Be a farmer? Be a rancher? Yeah, maybe. Well, so I'm not. Really? It's not just about that there's people who, you know, they have livelihoods here. They've moved to the area. They have a Maryland, D.C. area. But it's, you know, the conversation I've had with Allison is I could stop doing The Nightly Show, which currently is...

It's typically the second biggest live stream news. It's the biggest live stream news podcast. But Steven Crowder is bigger than us, but he's comedy news. If we want to lump it all together, we're number two. And it feels, we both feel guilty about saying, stop doing this show with a massive audience so that we can go and have, like, we're rich, we can go do whatever we want. We can just go skiing whenever we want. We can fly to South America and go skiing any time of the year.

We feel guilty about that. We both kind of agree on that. Why? I'm so fucked up. Why do you feel guilty? I don't know. I think it's like we were afforded this...

luxury and comfort. Go for fuck's sake. Get over it. Just enjoy it. You know, Christ, you could be fucking in the hospital. You could be in the hospital with leukemia or some shit. You're lucky in some ways. You also worked for it. And this is your fate and you have it. And trust me, you're not going anywhere. You know, you can go through these permutations in your mind, but at the end of the day,

something on your shoulder is going to say, you know what, let's make hay while the sun shines and then we can go skiing in South America. Because, like, you don't know how long it's going to last, popularity. I mean, you know, the more you get, the more you have in the bank, it's good. I mean, if you really skyrocket to popularity,

ultimate sort of fame, people never forget you. I mean, look at Britney Spears. She hasn't put out a record in 20 years. They won't let it go. And people are still very interested. But... I think that's going away. You know, like looking at everything you have and you're talking about the Mets and all this stuff, I think because of the... There's two phenomena that I think are going to break this. One is the decentralization of media through the internet.

but also the lack of new- Break what? Everybody wants to know what you think about things. Good, thank you. I don't, but it is true. You know, I go to like some of these media reporting websites and entertainment websites, and it's not just that Trump did something. It's how you thought about it. Oh, good. It's you, Ann Coulter, and Joe Rogan almost always. Interesting. I don't know that we have that in 10 or 20 years. So I'll break it down entertainment-wise. Really? You don't think there'll always be

People who are other humans. Not the way you guys are. So, Timcast IRL, we do maybe like 700,000 to 800,000 viewers per night, which is nothing compared to where Anderson Cooper was 20 years ago. It's decentralizing. It's changing. Right.

So we have a big audience. People talk like, wow, you've got this really big show. And I'm like, yes, but there's 50 other shows now that are comparable. And also just to put it, okay, how many adults are there in America? About 280 million. And Gen Alpha's tiny. Okay, but I'm just saying, of all the adults who could be doing something, if it's 280 million and seven to 800,000 are doing something,

Yeah, that's compared to how many it could be. To your point. Right. You know, like, I mean... Here's the other factor. TV shows used to get, like,

a share, which is like the percentage of this rating in a share. One is like the percentage of people who are doing anything. They could be watching TV, they could be masturbating, they could be playing tennis or ping pong. And the other is just a percentage of the people who are actually watching TV. So a share is a smaller number because again, it's only, I mean, it's among the people who could be doing anything.

And like TV shows sometimes used to get like a 40 share, 40, like 40% of the country who could have been doing anything were watching the wild, wild west. I mean, that is to your, again, this is your point. Like it's just, it's so much more bifurcated now. So I'll give you an example. Uh, I was at a bar and I went to the jukebox and I put in Bohemian Rhapsody and what happened? Everyone in the bar started singing.

Lit 100%. Everybody knows that one. The next song that came on, I didn't even know what it was. It was hip hop R&B. Everybody broke apart. And so back when we had very few radio stations and very few television channels, they had to be very selective about what they promoted, but they promoted to, like you said, like 40 million people. Who knows? So you had that time period. Now for us, I think that combined with the lack of new people. So Gen Alpha is about 40 million people.

And they're expecting that if we can't— What age are we talking about? This is zero to, I think, 13 years old. So the one coming up. Yeah. So Gen Z just finished. Or Gen Z finished a while ago. I think it was like 2010 or something. No. 2012. I think Gen Z ended. Gen Z just began. Gen Z is like 97 to 2012, I think. Yeah. Gen Alpha is 2013 to 2025. Okay.

Oh, okay. Right. So we're going from when they're born. Right. Yeah. Right. So we don't really count what they're thinking until they're at least a teenager. So Gen Alpha is 40 million. Right. It's expected to be between 40 to 48. So millennials ended at the end. They're like from 1980 to the- 1996, I think. Okay. Yeah. 81 to 96. It depends on which chart you use. Right. But there were 80 million millennials and there were-

I actually, no, I'm sorry. And that's you. Yeah. 72 million millennials right now, 69 million Gen Z, 40 million Gen Alpha. So talking about share, if in 20 years we're looking at Gen Alpha and Gen Z, the dominant generations, there are substantially, substantially less of them to buy products, to buy tickets, to know who you are. And there's an increasing competition from decentralization of media.

So I don't know how we end up with another Ann Coulter, Bill Maher, Joe Rogan personality, you know, and like the Bohemian Rhapsody song. If I go to, if I go to anybody in my town where I grew up with, they all watched your show. It's a, it's a liberal Chicago and everybody would put on real time, uh, and Jon Stewart and things like that. If I asked anybody who was on a daily show right now, they'd say, I don't know, Jon Stewart, I'd be like one night a week, I think. And they, who are the other people? No idea. I think Jordan Klepper is one of them. Don't know the rest.

To be fair, they have more than one host now. But I think everybody is choosing media that represents them like you brought up earlier. And it's easier than ever to get into. Then there's going to be less people. You're talking about owning a piece of the Mets. And I'm like, I might have a big show, but I don't think I'll ever be able to afford owning a piece of the Mets or anything like that.

Well, I doubt if they're going to sell it again. I mean, it was a rare thing. It doesn't happen often in sports when a team sells a chunk of themselves. The Mets were in very bad shape in 2010, and they sold 40% of the team to a select group of investors. That doesn't happen. Billionaires sell the whole thing to each other. They don't sell little pieces of it. But the Mets...

so fucked up that they were being sued by the Madoff survivors because they were very, the ownership of the Mets and they were lovely people, but they were apparently very in with Bernie Madoff. And so they were, they were, and again, this is the New York franchise, New York. This is baseball. There's nothing more Americana than that in New York.

And yet they could not attract investors. I mean, when I got it, I was like, I can't believe that I got a piece of the Mets. Where are the hundreds of people richer than me? Are you allowed to say what was the value that they had put on the Mets? Not what you...

Absolutely. It was so undervalued. At the time, it was 750 million. Wow. Again, these aren't the Royals, no offense, Kansas City. This is the Mets, but that's how much they were shit on at the time. And it just shows the sheep mentality. Like it got into people's heads. The Mets, there's a horrible toxic stink on them. Don't go near them. And I was like, oh, I'll go near them. Oh.

Oh, I'll happily go near them. And again, I mean, when they sold, it was for like two and a half billion. But even that's way underpriced now. I mean, the Celtics, I think, just sold for six billion. I mean, I said to myself, if there's one thing that always goes up, it's sports franchises. That's just a no-loser.

And then the pandemic came along and made it slightly more, still a winner, but like it could have been so much of a bigger winner without the fucking pandemic. So you don't think I suffered? Yeah. We both suffered from the pandemic. You almost died. I lost money. I don't know. I mean, I was sick, but with the age thing too. So I'm a skateboarder. I've been skateboarding my whole life. I know you are. Yeah. It's Tony Hawk's fault.

He landed at 900 and then every millennial had to get a skateboard. Yeah. Now there's no skateboarders anymore. Why? No kids. Why? Skateboarding. There's not enough young, there's not enough, so there's 40 million Gen Alpha. To be fair, like, it really is that skateboarders are, let's say this in a, I'm saying this in a punk rock kind of way, degenerates. And so, when they found themselves in the late 2000s being millionaires, what did they do? Nothing. They bought big houses, they partied and

Now more than half of skateboarders are over the age of 30. But that is the story of every generation as they get older. But you need an industry. So like Hollywood, music and entertainment had an industry. Sure, the rock stars were nuts. The problem with skateboarding is the rock stars ran the business. So the core industries that made skateboarding big were also running the business and...

Here we are. But that is amazing to me. Yeah. That kids are not into it anymore. Scooting. Scooters. You know what I think? So this is where we get into the tariff stuff. So there's none of that going down a flight of stairs. There is. And wrecking your body on an unforgiving pavement. Yeah, you just don't get paid for it anymore. You just don't. I think the top earner in skateboarding off of the sport alone was like $400,000 for the year.

And then it immediately curls down to the top 10, made about 100. Don't you think a lot of it is just every new generation has to shit on what the previous generation did and not to do anything but that? Well, maybe. The older skateboarders think that skateboarding comes and goes in waves and there's nothing you can do about it. But I don't believe that's true. It's an Olympic sport.

You've got, you're going to have China. Well, actually let me put it this way. I believe tariffs, I'm sorry, not tariffs, but free trade is one of the principal culprits for the decline in skateboarding. And the proof of that is that in Japan and China, skateboarding has never been bigger. So one of the biggest skateboard brands, probably the biggest, the premier, it's called the Barracks, shut down in LA and it shocked everybody. And they're reopening in Japan.

Where we offshored all of our jobs in manufacturing and the industry to China, now Southeast Asia has a massive booming skate culture. They even have a reality TV show, which is, it's like Ninja Warrior, but for skateboards. In the United States, you got a bunch of 35-year-old men. So how old do you think you'll be when you stop skateboarding? Never. That's what I say about basketball.

I mean, I always have. Look at my finger. That's a basketball injury. Wow. I don't give a shit. Yeah. Rebounding. You know, when the ball hits there, it's fine. It'll get better. Yeah, jams. That just happened? Yeah, about a week ago. Oh, wow. That's great. It's great. It's fucking, it's totally worth it. I played last night. Hell yeah. You know, I gotta like, I do like,

Now when I play, I make sure I do a good 40-minute stretch before. I mean, I don't get up and then knee pads. All the things the pros wear, shit on their ankles. You want all the support you can. I got to stretch now, too. What? I got to stretch now, too. Yeah, that's it. You know what? Trust me, bro. 40 is nothing. You're at a great point in your life. It's great to be 40, and look, you're killing it.

That's really great. And every, you know, apropos to your thing about feel guilty, don't. That's stupid. If you live here with one piece of advice, don't do that. That's dumb. Don't give up. That's the liberal in you. Don't give up. That's not the liberal in me. That's the smart guy in me. Don't give up your fucking show. That's stupid too. Keep doing, you know, at a

At some point, they might put you out to pasture. Don't put yourself out to pasture. I can name some people who did that to themselves in this business who were like, oh, I'm going to walk away from this. Yeah, good luck. And nobody ever invites you to walk back. When you have it, have it. You have a good piece of real estate. Just take it. Here, let me tell you about Generation. There's a movie called

that actually was Johnny Carson's production company made. It was a big movie in 1983 called The Big Chill. And it was about how the hippies, the people who were like fucking hippie dippies in like the late 60s when they were like 18, 19, 20, right? You know, the flower power and free love and Woodstock. Okay, you got the general impression, right? All you need is love.

So. Loomers had it good, man. Right. So like, then this movie takes place like in currently, which was at the time, 1983. So now these people who were hippies are like, you know, early thirties and it takes place. It's about like these, it's a, it's a, it's a, some guys, he lives in like kind of, kind of remotely just out, like in the exurbs of, in, I think it's North Carolina and like all the college kids,

friends are coming over. And so there's a lot of reunioning kind of thing. And when we were hippies, it was great. There's a scene where like something happens and the cop, a cop car comes up to the house and the guy who owns the house and is having all his college friends over and he's just like, oh, thanks, nothing, Bob, whatever it was. And Bob goes, oh, thank you. And he goes back in the house and his college friend is like, man, you were so nice to the pigs.

And he's like, dude, I live here now, okay? It's not like we're in college. I'm dug in. I think that was his line. I'm dug in here, you know? Like, I have a family. I want the cop to be my friend. They're not all pigs anymore, okay? Grow the fuck up. And that's like the great...

conflict of the movie. It's like, are we still hippies with all that ideology, some of which was good and some of which was stupid, or are we just growing up? And you know what? That generation, who did they vote for in 1980? Ronald Reagan. Reagan. You know, but I hear from you, it sounds like a mix a little bit of the understanding growing up and being responsible, but also the, you know, come on, do your thing. I guess my question is like, do you have a preference for what the future of this country and world should be?

A preference? I mean, peace and prosperity and democracy? Because I feel like you're... With politics, you're very in it. And there's a reason you, I, or anybody else wants to be involved in the goings-on of the world is because we want things to be done better. Right, correct. Yeah. You know, so I wonder... When I say things about being guilty, it's like if I have this platform that is influential and I can...

Like you said, people will listen to me and I can say, hey, I think this is a good way to do things and that can make the world that way. That's why I feel guilty of walking away from that opportunity. You know what I mean? I mean, that's great too. I mean, that's a great motivation. I mean, that's the best motivation. I mean, I never...

try to fool myself to think that what I'm doing is so noble that it's not really because it's doing what I want to do. If I didn't enjoy it, I wouldn't do it. I'm so glad that it does things for other people. And if you ask me, what is the great joy of my life? I would, I would sum it up by saying, there's this thing that I can do that,

enough people feel like I'm the only one who can kind of do that for them. I'm the only one who can kind of scratch that itch. You know what I mean? And every week I'm like, they want me to do this thing for them. And I love being able to give them that gift. Like I'm going to do this. I'm going to interpret the news in a way that is just different than anybody else does.

And it does the thing for you. And I love that connection. Like, I give you this gift and you appreciate it. And that really is the, that's the relationship of my life. You're obviously an atheist. Yes. Famously. Religious-less. I saw it when you put it out. Oh, good. Thank you. I know, I was lapsed Catholic, briefly atheist. Now I'm not Christian. I don't like the word deist. But I

The future, we're seeing this massive push towards Christianity and like young people. Yes. What do you make of that? Well, one thing I think is true is that conservatives had more kids in the 2000s. I know a lot of people want to claim these ideological victories where they say like we've read people. And I've pointed this out for years. No, just in like 2003, there were a couple of studies that came out saying that liberals were having less kids than conservatives. Well, 20 years later, what do you expect to see?

There's going to be more conservative people than liberal people just because the parents had kids. Right. I do think also that one of the more interesting trends, however, is that among Gen Z, irrespective of that, there's been a rightward ideological shift among men. And I think this has to do with contemporary politics, movies, games, culture, etc. And also men feeling that they were targeted unfairly

There is a lot of toxicity in being maleness. Some of that we can't control. Some of that is just how we're born. We were drawn that way. You know, boys are going to be more rambunctious in school. They're going to be harder to discipline. They're going to have more excess energy.

And we kind of made, we went like we do with everything, went overboard and made it seem sometimes like maleness itself was on trial. It was like a race to the bottom. So it's not, what? It was a race to the bottom of all these different cultural elements trying to one up what was wrong with masculinity. Yeah, kind of.

And so it's not surprising that they would run to Trump. They would run to the guy. I mean, it's kind of like, why do cops vote for Trump? The guy who's out there saying, they're not the enemy, and they're not.

I mean, there are things that obviously should be criticized about the police too, which Trump would never do because he's always all in on one way. But I can totally understand if you're a cop, you feel very misunderstood and you are, and you understand that you do something that the society needs and they don't seem very grateful about it. Oh yeah. And yeah. And so it's kind of similar to that. People, you know, uh,

Man, there's one prominent cop. I think this is Donut Operator. I could be wrong, so forgive me if I'm getting the guy wrong. But he was a cop, and I... No, I could be getting the guy wrong, but...

The thing that these cops deal with that people don't understand is they see these negative stories in the press all the time. And yeah, when there's a bad cop doing a bad thing, let's lock him up. Let's put him in jail. But my dad was a firefighter and he told me when I was younger, he's like, never be a cop because the things these guys deal with, you know, one day, like you're getting a phone call about a domestic violence incident. You show up and some guy screaming in your face, spitting on you, swinging at you. And then you go and see a mother holding her dead son who got hit by a car in one day. And then these people are just,

They deal with this stuff all the time. And then what happens is they go to a store where there's some minor altercation and they're not having it. And these people are, these cops are assholes, man. And it's like, that man just watched a child die and the mother scream. And now you're bothering him over some like petty BS at a supermarket. Right. You know, so it is pretty brutal. But then I do think, you know, I say this somewhat facetiously, ban the internet, get rid of social media. Cause it,

It puts people in these bubbles where they only see the bad thing. And I think it's making people go crazy. So we're talking about the younger generation, right? Here's one really interesting phenomenon in the political polarization. In the end of the 2000s on Facebook, the top content was police brutality. And there was one website that was one of the top global websites that only made articles about police brutality. Why?

Hit all the other algorithmic points, shot content, justice, anger. And so imagine you're 10 years old in 2010 and you go on a Facebook, maybe you're not supposed to, but you do. What do you find? Buzzfeed, Huffington Post, Mike.com. And they're blasting you with nothing but black man killed, black man killed, unarmed black man killed. The reason they were doing this was when, so Facebook found that after around 300 friends and or likes, the chronological feed becomes incomprehensible.

And they wanted to make sure that people stayed on the page longer. So they created the algorithm. That's why if you post, I'm getting married or having a baby, you will appear on the top of everyone's feeds. It's true. Yeah, it works. At the time, they didn't do this intentionally, but they created an algorithm that if it got shared more, it got promoted more. And so what happened was first that these websites like Huffington Post found that an article that said something like racist thing happens would get more shares. So they made more of it.

Eventually, a great example is Mike.com, M-I-C. It started as a Ron Paul libertarian freedom website. It was trending on the internet in 2008. And then it turned into social justice, intersectional feminism, and police brutality because that was generating most of the shares on Facebook. So these younger kids who are 10 or whatever are inundated with nothing but this. What happens?

There's this famous video where a guy goes to Venice Beach and he asks people, how many unarmed black men do you think were killed by police last year? And they say 1,000, 10,000. It was nine. I know. And it's because the media, or I should say social media, was propping up select stories over and over and over again. And where it gets crazy is even the same story every week. But yeah, but let's look at what's behind that. What's behind that? What it is is white guilt.

There's a certain segment of the left that feels very bad about the horrible racist history of our country, which they themselves probably participated not at all in. Yeah. And...

They are just constantly doing things that they think are for someone else, but I think are for themselves. I completely agree. Yeah. I mean, it's a lot of self-flagellating themselves about this, the racial issue, which, of course, the history is appalling. And the present has problems, too, racially in this country. Yeah.

They make it worse. Let's put it just in general. I agree. They make it worse. And it's really about how it's not about actually helping making any black lives better. Actually, that doesn't really happen from all their hyperventilating. It makes them feel a certain way. It makes them. That's what people have to realize about that. Have you followed any of the Chicago stuff with Mayor? Oh, Brandon Josephs?

You want to know what's really fascinating about that? His words to the last one. Oh, he's terrible. But you know how he won? White guilt. Yes. Yes. Well, I understand. But wait, wait. It's good. So I actually took the electoral map of vote breakdown by neighborhood, overlaid it with the racial breakdown per neighborhood, and what did we find?

Every black neighborhood, their top three candidates were black. Even people who weren't frontrunners or polling anywhere near didn't matter. The black neighborhoods did not vote for any white guy or Latinos. The Latino neighborhood, guess what? Latino guys. The white neighborhoods, white guys.

Except for one, the college liberal area of Loyola. Sure. They voted for Johnson. Yeah. And so even though Johnson wasn't- And that tipped the election? That tipped it. Yeah. And so people thought there was this white dude that all of the suburbanites were going to vote for. Not the suburbanites, but it's Chicago, so it's not suburban. But like the outskirts and the Northwest. And he did really well. But when Loyola college liberals was the one area where it was predominantly white that voted for the black candidate, put it over the edge, and this is what you get. Yeah. Not all Madden.

Living here in California.

Trust me, the concept of liberal in theory. This is something I say very often, people who are liberals in theory. And then you see how they live like terrible to the household help. Yeah. Like consider their assistants because everyone out here has to have an assistant. They can't do anything for themselves. I mean, I do too, but I've never called my assistant on the weekend or after hours. Right.

Most people here consider their assistant a 24-7 slave. This is what I mean about liberal in theory. In theory, you're a liberal, but how do you actually live your life? And of course,

very privilege-y. They absolutely hate privilege, but their whole life is sustained by the privilege of not being able, having to be practical or knowledgeable about a lot of things which they pontificate on and act like they're knowledgeable about. And also just, you know, like,

Many homes, like expensive vacations. I mean, it's not like they are, you know, if you really feel that bad about it, switch houses with someone in Compton. Let them live here in your house and you could live in their house and then you'll feel better. This is a part of what I call wokeness. Everybody's always trying to define it some way. Right. But I define it specifically as cult-like adherence to the liberal orthodoxy.

And the reason why I say that is because being in media and cultural spaces for the past 15 years watching all of this, the conservatives like to say it's DEI, it's race, but that doesn't explain support for certain institutions, support for war in Ukraine, doesn't explain the Me Too movement. These are all different things. It doesn't explain support for Islam particularly, which is the second biggest religion in the world. So it's not about critical theory or anything like that. It's about looking like you're virtuous,

So these liberals who live the way you're describing it want to make sure that as they're seen outwardly to other liberals, they are perfectly in line with what is virtuous and right. We call the virtue signaling. But it can manifest into literally anything, like, again, supporting the second largest religion in the world while claiming that they're oppressed.

But massive. Well, I mean, there's so much to get into here. One is the word liberal. Very fraught for me because I still think I'm a liberal. I think woke is a different thing. I agree. I mean, but your example about Islam is completely right. And it's one of the main reasons why the far left started to really hate me is because I call out Islam as what it is, extremely illiberal. That's what's so ironic about liberals being so supportive of

of Hamas is because you're liberals and these are the people, I'm sorry, but, but this ideology, Islam, even in its more benign forms, yes, I agree. Most, the vast majority of Muslims, not terrorists, of course, are,

But Islamists, which is the word we use to describe people who are not terrorists but kind of agree with the things terrorists are doing and are for, that's a much higher number. That's many millions of people. And even the rank and file –

I mean, most Muslim societies live under some form of Sharia law, which no Westerner who thinks that Hamas is so great could ever live under. Your fundamental rights that you take for granted here in America, you would not have. You know, I mean, all the protesters who are protesting in Gaza against Hamas, they've all been killed. They killed protesters.

Women. I mean, do I have to say anything more than just if it was just that issue, how women are treated? Are you fucking kidding me? And the narrative is when I talk to some of these academics, like the anti-woke people, they're like, well, it's because they say that Gaza is oppressed. And I'm like, sure, but they're siding with the second biggest religion in the world, which is authoritarian, fundamentalist.

And I don't care if you practice whatever religion you want to practice. It's fine. But it's strange to me to claim that

Islam is oppressed in any meaningful way. - Well, I do care what you practice, and I fully defend to the death your right to practice whatever religion you want. Just don't lie to me and say all religions are alike. All religions are not alike, and what makes them different mostly is how fundamentalist they are. Fundamentalist means you actually believe what's in the holy book. I mean, there's the Koran, there's the Bible, and they're both full of nonsense.

But we have learned to wink at the Bible in the West, whereas Islam, to a much greater extent, takes it very seriously. I mean, we do not have things like madrasas here where they send kids to school and they just learn that one book. They are not studying anything else in a madrasa. That's the meaning of it.

And of course, they're segregated completely sexually. So, I mean, what's going to be the upshot of that? It's like a handmaid's tale, right? It's worse. Yeah. I think.

Yeah, you know, and I'm not Christian, but I have a lot of friends who are, and I don't care. But what are you? You said you were going on this before. You were like, I'm not a deist, I'm not a deist, but you're not an atheist anymore. No, I'm not an atheist. So what do you believe in? I don't think God exists, but I don't believe in any scriptures or anything like that. I think man is fallible, and to write down books and then claim it's the word of God is silly. So how long were you an atheist, and what did we do wrong not to keep you? I went to Catholic school, and...

And there you go. I went to catechism. Well, I didn't do that. At fifth grade, I left. And so what happened for me in Catholic school was they taught me nothing. They showed me a video of Adam riding a brontosaurus. I'm not joking. I went to the museum in Religulous where they have the exhibit of Jesus on the brontosaurus. Exactly. So they told us that the dinosaurs were too big to fit on the ark and the unicorns were too rambunctious.

Not kidding. Unicorns were dancing and ran away from the ark. And I'm like, so I remember. That's why they didn't survive. That's right. I see. One formative moment was when I asked my fifth grade teacher. Can't argue with logic. Right. So the Big Bang.

was we were learning it, fifth grade science. Really? Good for you. Yeah, at Catholic school. And I asked my teacher, if the universe was in a single point and then expanded outward, is it possible that, I raised my hand and asked this, is it possible that at some point it stops and then comes back in? And she went, I don't know, moving on. And I was furious. Why? Who does know that? It's called the big crunch theory. And it was dismissed a hundred years ago.

So what pissed me off was, reflecting upon it, I genuinely wanted to know what they were trying to teach. And they couldn't teach me anything, so what did I do? I went home and went on the internet and read to myself. And so immediately I'm like, fake. They have no idea what they're talking about. The religion is BS. I'm done.

And so it wasn't like I was five, I was in fifth grade, I was nine years old. But this is when I was like, when I was like probably around 12 or 13 is when I was like, this is stupid. What are they even talking about? And like shellfish you can't eat, but they're eating it. These people don't follow this stuff. Well. But that's scripture. That's, that's, that's not God. And so what happened was I read about negative entropy and it discusses the, uh,

trying to simplify as much as I can. Everything tends towards entropy. Entropy being randomness. Everything tends toward randomness. To a certain degree, but at some point it will become uniformity in the heat death of the universe. The way it was described to me when I took physics for poets at Cornell University was like if after six months you don't reorganize your sock drawer, it's a mess. That's entropy. And

And that happens in the universe. An egg breaking? Everything happens toward randomness, you know, and it's true. Like you have to, in your own life, you have to constantly be retarding entropy or else your life is a mess. And some people can live in a mess and clutter and they like it. But that desk, you know, that we've all seen where the tuna fish sandwich is under like three piles of paper, you know, from two weeks ago, that some people live in that. I can't, I have to always retard entropy. But so that is negative entropy. Yeah.

Which can only exist in a- Yeah, so what is negative entropy? Exactly what you described. Oh, fixing it. Yeah, but that can only exist within a greater system of entropy.

And so I'm reading this and I started reading about how matter coalesces, you know, hydrogen becomes helium. It diffuses the greater elements and things like that. The elements become compounds, becomes, you know, chemical compounds, becomes single cellular life, becomes multicellular organisms. I kind of view it like on top of that.

fire. We know it exists. We can make it. And what is fire? It's the releasing of energy from, you know, carbon and oxygen slammed together and the energy gets released. And the energy was stored from solar energy, which we view as some type of fire. It's fusion, which we're watching in the sky, but it works similarly, right? And so then my thought was consciousness exists, at least I can say for myself because I experience it. But if consciousness is a component that exists within the universe mathematically, like in the code of the universe, then

same as fire, is there probability of a higher form of consciousness? Yes, completely. Just like fire can be a forced fire, can be a star, or even a gigantic supermassive black hole. Consciousness exists in the universe as a component of the universe. Thus, the universe experiences consciousness. So I wonder if God then is not scripture-based, but that there is something beyond our singular consciousness that

You get where I'm trying to go with it? I don't know. I think it's really deep for a redneck. I'm from Chicago. What can I say? Just fucking with you. Yeah. No, I mean, it's like I love the way everybody takes their shot at talking themselves into what they just really want to believe. I don't really want to believe. I totally respect that. No, I mean, it's a lot easier and probably healthier to have that in your back pocket, like to think, oh, and I just don't.

But I don't say it's not. You know what? People have this thing that atheists are dogmatic. No, we're just saying we don't know. And quite frankly, we don't really care because we don't think we're ever going to really know or be able to know. So we just kind of put it out of our heads. But we don't think it's obviously the myths that have come down to us. I agree with that. Yeah, yeah. But I'm not trying to say that there's like a B.

watching over us and dictating. No, of course. It couldn't. I mean... It's more like the logic that is the universe is the Einsteinian God, they call it. Viewing...

our human experience and our emotions are unique to us. I mean, I've said this before, but the idea that, and I'm sure the Big Bang Theory is correct, or I guess it is. I mean, again, talk about going on faith. I just think Neil deGrasse Tyson seems smarter than my pastor when I was a kid, my priest. And so I guess I, but the idea that all of

matter in the universe, which is just, I can't even go into how big it is, was just fit into something tiny and just exploded. First of all, why do it that way? It just seems silly. I think it's wrong. And you don't believe in the Big Bang Theory? No. What about the show? The show was terrible. If you take the laugh track, that didn't work. But let me elaborate. Okay.

We, science is wrong all the time. Yeah. And so I think the Big Bang is what we know so far. Right. But there's already theories about the Big Bang may have been what's called a white hole. Are you familiar with that? No. The other side of a black hole. And so string theory, unified M theory, I don't really follow this stuff as much as I was, you know, 20 years ago. But one idea is that the universe is a 12-dimensional structure. Right.

And basically what happened with our universe is someone took a piece of rubber, pinched it, and then blew. It's expanding as matter is pouring into it, but that's just one balloon of the universe being blown up in a much larger universe of multiple dimensions. I really don't know. Well, I just got word from the Huffington Post we need to capitalize black hole but not white hole. Because one is socially acceptable. All right. Well...

I'm so glad I got to know you. I really do appreciate you having me. Yeah. I hope you had a good time. I know everyone's going to, they're going to yell at me saying, why weren't you yelling at Bill Maher? I was just going to say, that's what I love about this show. It's like, yeah, there's some yelling because we're human. And of course we're not going to be there. But it doesn't...

Get in the way of being pals. I appreciate you having me. Yeah. You know, my friends are super excited. No, I'm thrilled. I was thrilled you wanted to do it. Enjoy a little of L.A. while you're here. I lived here for a little bit. It's not that awful. I actually lived in Westwood for a bit. Oh, yeah.

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