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This is CNN Breaking News.
It's Thursday, May 8th, and here's what's happening right now on CNN This Morning. Black smoke billows from the chimney of the Sistine Chapel, but more votes could come today. Will a new pope be elected? Plus, there's a major trade deal on the horizon. President Trump hinting at a major announcement on tariffs. Could it put more money in your pocket?
Pro-Palestinian protesters arrested at Columbia University. Now they're on the Trump administration's radar. And on the brink, Pakistan vows retaliation as it claims it shot down dozens of drones overnight. What can be done to calm the tensions?
At the top of the hour, a live look at Vatican City. No pope has been elected in this first vote of this morning. Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. Thank you for waking up with me. As I mentioned just moments ago, the smoke was black coming out of that chimney at the Vatican. That means no new pope was chosen in day two of voting.
So there are 133 cardinals in the college. They've been voting this morning. The Catholic faithful are crowding into St. Peter's Square awaiting the news. Katie McGrady, CNN's Vatican analyst, joins me now. Katie, so...
We should be clear, it was always a sense there would be multiple rounds. Can you give me an idea of some of the reasons why? I assumed it's because frankly so many Cardinals are new to this process, are new to the college. - Yeah, only 27 inside have done this before. So last night it took about three hours for us to see smoke and a lot of people
Of course, the conspiracy theories ran wild. Did someone have a health event? What could possibly be going on? They have to learn how to do this. This morning, they started voting about 9:00, and we got smoke around noon in Rome. So I've been living on Rome time, so I'm thinking ahead. No, I love it.
That's about three hours. Three hours for two ballots. And it takes a while to reach consensus. I mean, think about making a decision. It's 133 people in a room. Which if you've been to church recently, they're not fast talkers. That's not the energy here. They gotta take a bathroom break. They might need to grab some coffee. So it takes a minute. Plus, factor in about 45 seconds per guy to walk up to the front, put his ballot in, say the oath, and then walk back. It takes a minute.
- Can we talk about that oath? What is it that is guiding some of the principles that are guiding their approach and sort of how they're thinking about the next candidate? - So they have to vote their conscience, essentially. They have to vote for the one that they believe before God. They can say, "I think he would be a good shepherd." I noticed last night there's a picture of the urn where they placed their ballots circulating online. It was like a still shot from when they processed in.
And on the side of the urn are two lambs. And that's, you kind of look at that and like, why are there sheep on the side of this thing? Well, what was the command to St. Peter? To feed and to tend the sheep. So they have to think of a shepherd who can care for the faithful, the flock, but also
somebody who can awaken the conscience of the world. That's what Cardinal Ray challenged them to. So there's a huge estimation. They're not just voting for their best friend. They're not just voting for the guy with the coolest name. They're not just voting for somebody who's got star power. They have to vote for somebody that they think can lead the church, 1.4 billion Catholics, and be a visible leader on the world stage. Okay, Katie, stay with us because you're talking about the faithful. And those are the people who are gathering right now.
in the square. I want to go there for a minute. CNN's Ben Wiedemann is there. Ben, what is the mood given that just moments ago, again, we saw black smoke, which means that voting is continuing?
Adi, the disappointment was quite clear from the people who had come here specifically in the hopes of seeing white smoke. So when black smoke billowed from the chimney above the Sistine Chapel, people were a bit disappointed and now they're starting to
leave the area some of them because it's approaching lunchtime. The assumption was that the smoke would come a little closer to one o'clock Rome time. One o'clock is normally lunchtime in Italy so the assumption was that it would be closer to that. Nonetheless
It appears that they were able to speed up the process compared to yesterday. So we understand simply from prior knowledge, not because we have any idea of what's actually going on inside the Sistine Chapel, that there were two votes this morning, there will be two votes this afternoon, but only one
billowing of smoke will happen for the rest of the day, either earlier if there's white smoke or later after the final vote, which last night of course we didn't see that black smoke until around 9 p.m. local time when we can expect more people this afternoon to gather in the hopes of seeing
So really nobody has any special inside sources inside the Sistine Chapel. We are only going on the basis of one thing and that is the color of the smoke that is emitted from that chimney.
Ben Wiedemann, thanks so much. Katie, we just heard the idea of disappointment there. All those people are gathering. But just to give people the state of play, he said there are two more votes to go. You have to reach two-thirds consensus. What are you going to be listening for this afternoon? So this afternoon we get ballots four and five. That's when we saw Pope Francis, ballot five last time, and Benedict, ballot four.
And to be clear, Francis wasn't even a favorite going in last time. He was the second in 2005, so everybody kind of written him off like, oh, he's too old. 76 is actually quite young in a papal conclave, if you think about it. So it'll be interesting to see if we get a pope this afternoon, that's pretty consistent with the past two. If we go into day three tomorrow, well, now we're in, maybe they didn't have a front runner from the get-go, and they're trying to find a middleman that can maybe pick up the necessary votes. Somebody's going to have a ceiling.
And that ceiling is either somebody right now is sitting on 60 votes and they're sitting pretty and they're gonna gather the rest that they need or someone's, ah, they capped out at 45. We need to find somebody that can get to 89. - Okay, people are fascinated by this closed door process. Katie McGrady, thank you so much for your insight.
All right, coming up on CNN this morning, a notable guest of honor, China's president arriving in Moscow to attend a military parade and a one-on-one with Vladimir Putin. Plus, the conclave is being called the Catholic Super Bowl online. Is there something bigger behind the renewed fascination with Catholicism? And it's a musical with deep roots in protest. And now some Les Mis performers are planning a boycott of their own.
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A federal judge is warning the Trump administration not to deport any more migrants to Libya or Saudi Arabia unless they've received written notice and a chance to appeal. Immigrant rights groups have filed an emergency motion over all this. So what is the White House going to do now? The recent back and forth between the judiciary and the executive branch is getting the attention of the Supreme Court, the chief justice.
The judiciary is a co-equal branch of government, separate from the others, with the authority to interpret the Constitution as law. Its job is to obviously decide cases, but in the course of that, check the excesses of Congress or of the executive, and that does require a degree of independence.
Joining me now in the group chat, CNN anchor and chief domestic correspondent Phil Mattingly, senior advisor to Bernie Sanders' presidential campaigns Chuck Rocha, and former Homeland Security official Ashley Davis. I want to get to what the chief justice was saying in a minute, but first I just want to tackle this like sending people to Libya and Saudi Arabia. Obviously immigrants groups see this as like
get him farther away and it makes the whole conversation even more difficult for them to appeal. Like what's the sense here? Is this something that's been percolating at the White House for a while? Like is this an, oh it is. Yeah, I think it's important to
It's a little step back. I think people focus on the individual countries. They seem to come out of nowhere, sometimes be a little bit bizarre, definitely seem very far away. The degree to which bilateral discussions with pretty much every country around the world have included, oh, by the way, we'd like to send particularly undocumented immigrants without third party agreements that exist or with...
origin countries that are not in current relationships with the United States. So you come in for a trade deal and leave with a detainee deal. I have not heard, in talking to embassies and also diplomats pretty much from around the world, without fail at some point it comes up. And it's not necessarily a quid pro
quotes, unnecessarily for this without that, this won't happen, but it is always in somewhere in the peripheral of the conversation. Does this push, because it does feel very left field for people who are not paying close attention, does it push it further into the public consciousness in a way that is like, is questionable?
- I think so because I think that's why you see a move on immigration. All Americans agree that if you've come to this country and you've done something illegal, it's fine to deport you as long as you go through a process just to make sure you're not a US citizen or that what you say or been accused of is actually right. People understand that as Americans and I think that's why you've seen the movement in its numbers. Folks aren't against the policy, they're against how it's being done and then when you bring in Libya or other countries, they're like, what is this? - And then the courts, it goes further in the courts and then you have to have the Chief Justice out there
basically just explaining how government works, but it feels like in this moment you have to. Co-equal branches, oversight, excesses. Who did you think he was speaking to, the public or the White House? Both. I think he's trying to explain because, you know, the president has been kind of criticizing him in regards to not taking a major stance on some of these lower courts making these decisions. But I think every single person
Every single group that's going to be sent out of this country. It's going to be in the courts I mean, I think this is going to be the foreseeable future in the next four years Yeah, but I do just have to go back for a second We have to remember this group of individuals that is supposed to be sent to Libya first of all their home countries Don't want them back which has been said and to these from what I've been told they are all convicted of
of a crime already. So it's not, so to have another layer. - I think part of the problem is they haven't always been transparent about people's crimes, so to speak. And so there is not high confidence in that. This is not a, to bring back Bush era stuff, Guantanamo, where even that had question marks. So I think for the public, it's like, do you trust what they're saying about who's going? - Yeah.
I think the, yes, I think that's the thing that has kind of resonated to Chuck's point on some level, where people look around and say, well, is this how it's supposed to work? Or is this how it's supposed to work is what I'm getting at. Or unnecessary in terms of what could be done or what has been done in the past. I think the more important kind of piece to lock into here is, and it took me a while to figure this out when I was trying to
cover what they were planning to do last year just how critical the diplomatic piece is to the immigration efforts right we have a a tendency to focus just on immigration or just on specific cases just what we're seeing in court you have to understand this kind of a whole of government approach on immigration and deportation specifically I don't necessarily think people one were prepared for but two have gotten their heads around in the couple months since. It could also lay a new path to a completely different way of approaching these things I mean remember how big a deal we made out of Guantanamo
You know what I mean? And now you're just sending whoever to wherever. I mean, I feel like this is charting new territory. This is not new as far as deporting. I remind everybody that we called Obama-- the groups, the groups we talk about that are doing these lawsuits-- called a Democratic president the deporter chief. But he was going through a normal law process and not sending people to another country. He was sending them back to their home country. That's the difference. But if your home country doesn't take you back, what now you do? What surprises me, which is interesting,
The Saudi, Libya I understand. That's like the other, El Salvador, others I feel like in that bucket. But Saudi is just interesting to me because it's just, I can't imagine the UAE taking some of our people. - Okay, we're about to find out. Group chat with me. Stay with me for a little bit. We're gonna talk a lot more after the break
on CNN this morning. The president wants one big, beautiful bill to pay for his overall agenda, and yet there are some House Republicans who appear that they're not fully on board. Plus, Catholicism in the spotlight around the world, but what's driving a new wave of young converts to the faith? And here's a live look this morning, of course, at the Vatican. Black smoke earlier this morning. That means no pope has been elected just yet. Another opportunity later today.
Okay, thanks to speculation around the Conclave, Catholicism is having a pop culture moment, social media buzzing with silly songs, comedy sketches, fantasy pope drafts, and of course last year's movie Conclave providing a visual reference for what could be happening behind the closed doors of the Sistine Chapel.
And then, of course, there are the high-profile young converts, J.D. Vance, Shia LaBeouf. On this week's episode of The Assignment, I wanted to get into this, and I spoke with Christine Emba of the American Enterprise Institute. She converted to Catholicism in college. We got into why, the how and the why, of high-profile political figures who are shaping this moment.
It's a fascinating moment in American politics when you think of a time way back when JFK actually had to make a speech about his religion to essentially reassure Americans that to be Catholic did not mean that you would not be loyal to the United States.
Now, I think being Catholic, that doesn't even mean you're loyal to the Pope or the Vatican. That's no guarantee. It's a vibe shift. So what how do you see this moment for Catholicism and Catholics in modern politics? Because they like I said, because of JFK, they have a particular place in this moment where you see like sort of loudly Catholicism.
loudly Catholic figures in the public square, like J.D. Vance, I think I think a lot about how well Catholicism is being represented by these figures. Like when somebody who is unfamiliar with the church or the faith thinks this is who Catholics are, are they
going to think J.D. Vance? Are they going to think Peter Thiel? And then what are other parts of the faith, other visions of the church, other ways of being Catholic that I think are really good and important that get left out or pushed to the side? And I think a lot of Catholics, I think a lot of religious people in the public square are thinking about
how their religion is being represented by sort of the standard bearers who are making the most noise right now.
Group chat is back. I want to dive right in because first of all, during the break, you were mentioning that you are Catholic and we were talking about this idea that Gen Z men are leaning towards more religiosity than Gen Z women and that there is actually some overlap within the so-called manosphere of Catholics. I actually was talking about that with Katie McGrady on the set earlier. What do you think is drawing them in and where's the link between the
conservative political movement in this? I don't think just in terms of the kind of zeal of the converted that we've seen and the figures that represent that, at least in the public sense, it's not disconnected from a lot of the kind of trend lines we've seen in terms of the MAGA movement, in terms of the way conservatives have trended over the course of the last couple of years. I think what's important to note, though, and a couple of things, and this is apparently my role as the panel's Catholic spokesperson. Okay, I'll move on because let me tell
- How do you know? Chuck and I talk about this as well. - There's layers. It's not a monolithic faith. - No, not at all. - The community is not monolithic, and so there are traditional conservatives that are actually very much, in terms of beliefs within the Catholic faith, very similar to what you hear from J.D. Vance, just haven't necessarily gotten the attention in the past. - No, no, and part of that attention is, we say that because of him, because even the late Pope Francis sat down with him before he died, rebuked some of the things that he was saying, exactly.
How are you guys seeing this? I mean, obviously, we're not talking about the religious right here more broadly. And I think the Catholic right politically has always had like a really strong because of the pro-life movement as a litmus test kind of voting. So is there something particular or something that strikes you about this moment?
Well, I just want to say from a women perspective, it doesn't surprise me at all that the Gen Z women are moving to non-denominational because, and not the Catholic Church, because the Catholic Church at the end of the day, not even their positions on social issues, but just are run by all men. And listen, anyone that is looking to a higher being and that's what grounds them, no matter what it is, I'm all for. And I think it's good no matter what your politics are.
But at the end of the day, I'm not gonna isolate half the population, but you know, for all I want to say is that Catholic, yeah, yeah, as a Southern Baptist, I'll promise you that politics and religion have been intertwined for a long time. The movement here is what really strikes me as somebody who grew up doing campaigns in the 90s for Democrats in Texas to go until today and watching the rise of the Christian coalition and
rise of born again Christians in politics, all the religion. This is just the newest thing. And I think the Internet brings the biggest change in my mind and what I see in politics. That's true. Is you do see this movement. Those of us who know the Bible whether you know it from whatever religion this all starts to make sense but there has always been an intertwining politics. Yeah, and the thing that I noted in reporting out this story they found in the numbers a hollowing out of the middle. So you have more people who are either more religious. Just like our
Unaffiliated. Just like our politics. And just like our politics, the religious middle is not what it was. So group chat, stay with me. We got a lot more to talk about today. Plus, if you want to learn more about this episode of The Assignment, it is out now. You can find it wherever you get your podcasts.
Ahead on CNN this morning, we're going to talk about Pakistan. They say they've shot down multiple drones overnight. What this could mean for the escalating tensions with India. Plus, moments ago, we saw black smoke, the chimney at the Vatican coming up. We're going to take a deeper look at some of the so-called front runners to be the next pope. And of course, more from the group chat after this.
One surprise contender has emerged, Cardinal Joseph Tobin, who is the Archbishop of Newark. We're getting the Jersey Pope, people! Okay. Oh, here we go. Oh, here we go. Okay. Bada bing, bada bless you, okay?
Not so fast, because black smoke billowed from the chimney of the Sistine Chapel this morning, meaning there is no new pope just yet. Good morning, everybody. I'm Adi Cornish. I want to thank you for joining me on CNN this morning. It's half past the hour, and here's what's happening right now.
Since the Cardinals could not come to an agreement this morning, they could still vote up to two more times today at the Vatican. That means we are still all on smoke watch because once we see white smoke, that signals the election of a new pope.
President Donald Trump confirming a major announcement on trade. Moments ago, he confirmed the deal is with the United Kingdom. An Oval Office announcement about it is happening later this morning. And China's President Xi Jinping and Russia's President Vladimir Putin meeting in Moscow. President Xi is there for a four-day visit. We'll attend Russia's Victory Day parade on Friday as Putin's guest of honor.
And there's some growing tension among House Republicans over that, quote, big, beautiful bill. President Trump keeps talking about the sticking point, Medicaid. And some GOP lawmakers are starting to push back, saying the bill just takes too big a swing with the cuts.
I guess if there is one, I want to make sure that everybody that hates these services, that they're available. I don't want to be mean. And I think any time it looks like we're actually hurting people, that's going to piss off the American population. And if you piss them off, they're probably not going to vote for you. OK, that's not stopping House leadership from pushing forward to talk more. Oh, hold on one second. That's not stopping them from pushing forward.
We can pass that by Memorial Day. That was our original time frame. And some of some of the people in this room balked and thought that would be impossible. But stop doubting us. We're going to get this job done. OK. I'm joined now by Michael Schnell, a congressional reporter at The Hill. We just heard Speaker Johnson saying, like, look, nothing's going to get me down. What are the sticking points? Is it really just Medicaid or are there other controversial parts of the bill that we don't know about?
Medicaid is certainly one of the biggest sticking points, if not the largest sticking points, and it's because you have this push and pull between hardline conservatives, deficit hawks in the conference, and then some moderate Republicans. So to sum it up... So we just heard who said this will hurt people. That's right. So the deficit hawks want this to reduce the deficit. They want to cut spending. And a large part of that they're eyeing is from changes to Medicaid. But a lot of moderates are saying, well, hold your horses, pump the brakes. I don't want to do anything that's going to hurt Americans in my district.
on Medicaid. So that's one of the biggest pain points right now. The other thing is revolved around what the state and local tax deduction cap, which essentially it's a something for high tax. It's a concern for moderate Republicans in high tax blue states.
who essentially the state and local tax deduction is capped at a certain number. That hurts their constituents. So these Republicans in places like New Jersey. It's in the weeds of tax policy. Anytime you see the word salt, that's what we're talking about. Right, exactly. So folks, Republicans in New Jersey, New York, California, that's a big point for them as well. How soon does Johnson want to get this done and how realistic is that?
So he wants to get it done by Memorial Day, move this bill out of the House by Memorial Day with the goal of getting it to President Trump's desk by July 4th. A lot of folks, including Republicans, are saying that's a very ambitious timeline, which as days go by— That's a very general description, an ambitious timeline. I feel like that translates as, like, we don't think that's going to happen.
- As the days pass, it's becoming more and more unrealistic because of those concerns and disagreements over Medicaid and SALT are no closer to finding a resolution. And then you actually have to get this through the House and then the Senate as well. The true deadline is really the end of December 'cause a lot of these tax cuts
that Republicans are trying to extend don't expire till the end of the year. So Johnson may be trying to get it done right now this month, but realistically he has a lot of wiggle room before it actually comes to crunch time. - Now in all the rush, we're just calling it the big beautiful bill. We're not just being vague. Is it clear what is in this bill? - Yes and no. So some parts, the more non-controversial parts of this bill have been released and have been looked at by committees,
But the real heft of it, the real key controversial, more controversial parts like the tax code, like the potential Medicaid cuts, those actually haven't been released yet because lawmakers are still haggling over them. Again, it's this debate between the deficit hawks and the moderates. So we're still trying to figure out what exactly is in this bill. The general confines, though, are that those tax cuts, in addition to immigration policy, energy policy, spending cuts and things like that.
Yeah, okay. Well, we're going to be keeping an eye on it as the details come out. Michael, so much appreciate you for being here.
All right, we're going to turn back to the Vatican, of course, where day two of the conclave is underway. Less than an hour ago, there was black smoke billowing from the chimney of the Sistine Chapel, signaling that no pope was selected this morning. Now the cardinals are on a lunch break and could vote two more times today to try and come to a consensus. So who could it be? We're going to bring in Father Edward Beck, CNN's religion contributor. Father Beck, thank you for being here this morning.
The late Pope Francis obviously elevated so many of the cardinals voting in this election. I think I heard upwards of 108 out of the 133. So what does that, how does that change the calculus of who might be chosen?
Well, first of all, they don't really know each other. They haven't met. There are so many different language groups. So a lot of the meetings beforehand called general congregations were an opportunity for them to wear name tags and at least learn each other's name and hear about them, speak about some of their positions. And the fact that it's so culturally diverse and from many different countries, some countries had never had a cardinal before,
it really changes the whole complexion of this conclave. It's the largest conclave ever with 133 voters.
And so that's why it is taking a little bit of time. We saw black smoke. We don't know if we'll see white smoke this afternoon, possibly, but maybe not. And I think just the fact that they have to come together on so many different issues that, and the concerns in different parts of the world are different, say from the United States. And so what's going to be the priority? These are the kinds of things that need to get discussed with them.
We've heard the famous quote, "He who enters the conclave as pope leaves a cardinal," because frankly, frontrunners going in don't stay that way. But when you talk about sort of the values, who they might be looking at, it's a head of state. Do they care about this person's diplomatic skills? Is it a pastoral concern? What are the characteristics that are kind of in the chatter?
Well, I think they do want someone who is pastoral. I mean, Pope Francis made a really big deal that the Pope needs to be a shepherd, a shepherd of his people and needs to be pastoral. And so I think you want someone who really has the care of people at his heart. Pope Francis' call
call was for mercy and for inclusion. Now again, there's been some debate about that, about the amount of inclusion. And so there are certain candidates who wouldn't be so open to that kind of inclusion, like blessing same-sex couples or talking about married priests or women deacons, conversations that happen in the conclave. So those kind of more hot button issues
are a little bit more contentious, but very clear about ministering to the poor, being compassionate, being pastoral. Those are kind of concerns that all of the Cardinals, I think, would agree on. He also did all kinds of reforms within the Vatican itself, tried to deal with corruption. Is there an element here of needing an administrator? Are there people who are in the lead for those reasons?
Yes, well the Secretary of State, Cardinal Parolin, is known to be a very good administrator. He did handle all of that under Francis and he did it very well. So he went into this conclave as a leading contender. He still may be. I mean Cardinal Parolin is, has been Secretary of State. He's enabled Francis's vision.
He did speak out against same-sex marriage. He called it a defeat for humanity. There was some controversy about his China deal as well, enabling bishops to be chosen by the Chinese government, except not chosen strictly by the Vatican. So there was some concern about that. So he has pluses and minuses, but many pluses being a very good administrator.
Father Edward Beck, thank you for this insight. Father Beck is CNN's religion contributor. Thank you. After the break on CNN this morning, pro-Palestinian protesters tried to take over a library at Columbia University. That led to a confrontation with police and dozens of arrests. Plus, is this the end of NATO as we know it? A former top diplomat's warning. That's coming up.
Shied
Perhaps they thought that we would retreat, but they forgot that by the grace of Allah Almighty, we are a nation of brave people. A senior defense official in India says at least 12 people have been killed in Pakistani shelling in India-administered Kashmir. When this latest escalation began, India said its strikes would be targeting terrorist infrastructure. CNN's Nick Robertson has the latest from Islamabad. Nick, just to begin, where things stand now?
Yeah, new serious provocation, as you quoted the army spokesman saying. This is a new environment that the conflict, the strikes that happened yesterday are rolling over into an ongoing event today. The drone attacks, these are...
stealth or rather drones that are carrying loitering drones that carry a heavy explosive payload 25 of them have been neutralized pakistani uh military say but the places that they're targeting are all across the country the massive port city of karachi in the south uh a civilian uh
was killed in Sindh province in the deep south. They were in a rural area. That person was killed there. Lahore, a city of 13 million people, just 13 miles from the border with India, was also targeted by a number of these drone strikes. Four military personnel injured there. And 10 miles from here, just a couple of hours ago in Rawalpindi, the headquarters of both the army and the intelligence services here in Pakistan,
that was hit by one of these munitions. And the video in the aftermath there, right outside the massive cricket stadium where there were street vendors selling food, you can see the damage there. So these are coming down in civilian areas in the country.
the population very worried right now. Now, India has said that these drone attacks are targeting Pakistan's air defenses, and they are saying that this is in retaliation for continued cross-border strikes by Pakistan. We understand to be the line of control, but that's the
border between Pakistan administered Kashmir, Indian administered Kashmir, and India now saying that the death toll from those cross-border incidents stands at 16 people killed there. The Prime Minister of India has said that the country should be on high alert. This does feel...
with these ongoing drone strikes today rolling on from the attacks yesterday and the high incidence of the border, of cross-border fire, that this is rolling into an ongoing situation with that potential for very serious escalation. And of course, Pakistan has vowed a major response to India's initial attack, and we haven't seen that yet. That's CNN's Nick Robertson in Islamabad. Thank you.
So a three-day ceasefire in Ukraine that Russian President Vladimir Putin announced last month now in effect. But according to Ukraine's air force, he's already broken it. Overnight, Russia launched guided bombs over northeastern Ukraine. Vice President J.D. Vance signaling the administration's frustration with the Kremlin during a meeting on Wednesday with the Munich Security Conference.
are uninterested in bringing this thing to a resolution.
The vice president went on to say that the U.S. would like to see Russia and Ukraine speak to each other directly. I'm bringing in Wolfgang Ischinger. He's the former German ambassador to the U.S. He's also president of the Munich Security Conference Foundation Council. And you're here in part because you also did that interview. You spoke to the vice president. Welcome to CNN This Morning.
great to be here so the last time the vice president spoke before munich security folks um he his comments were so fiery so critical of europe and how it's conducting business in its nations i think you guys had them printed up in a book to share and debate what was his tone this time and did it calm tensions it was a very different tone it was a very different atmosphere
In Munich, he launched a discussion about how we, according to his view, how we apparently interpret fundamental values, freedom of speech differently across the Atlantic. Yesterday, he accepted our proposal that we should discuss what the Munich Security Conference is really about, first and foremost, namely current
issues of international concern, foreign policy, security, defense, and we had a very cooperative atmosphere. I'm very happy to say this was a good meeting. Hopefully that's also the view from the White House, but it was certainly the view of our audience. So at least the tone was much more of an open
Because so far you've seen in this kind of America first foreign policy this effort to say we're going to talk to Russia We don't need Europe here. We're gonna talk to so-and-so we don't need we're gonna do it ourselves And now you see with this ceasefire kind of a shift in language and how they're talking about Russia as Russia of course has proven to be a reluctant partner needless to say in the peace process and
Is this an opening for Europe to come back into the conversation? Do you think that the Trump administration has learned that it can't go it alone? Well, first of all, let me say that we should be, we Europeans should be thankful to the Trump administration for opening, for starting this effort at negotiations. Yes, that effort has not yet led to any serious ceasefire or peace deal, but it's a start.
What do we hope to achieve? And you mentioned it. I think it's going to be necessary to take the next steps for the United States to take these next steps together with her allies and the allies in this particular case, Ukraine. That's not just us, the EU, European NATO partners. It's also Turkey.
I cannot imagine a peace arrangement concerning Ukraine without the active participation of Turkey. They control the access to the Black Sea. They are a major strategic factor in this equation. But you've also heard the UK, France, saying we should lead a peacekeeping
maybe we should be the ones who do that. And I think you were among those saying, not without the U.S. It doesn't work without the U.S. Absolutely, because if we want to keep NATO together,
I think doing something as Europeans in Ukraine against a major nuclear power like the Russian Federation would carry huge risks of driving NATO apart. So I think the original idea, which I learned 30 years ago as a practicing diplomat, was
Let's go in together, let's go out together, but let's stay together. And I think that's good. I heard yesterday a willingness by the White House to work with Europe again, hopefully more than in the recent past, and then I think we can achieve something. May I add just one point? I believe, and many of my friends in Europe believe, that Russia
has not abandoned their original
strategic goal, namely to eliminate Ukraine as a sovereign, separate nation. We should always be aware that that remains the Russian ambition. Do you believe that the White House understands that or is conducting the peace process with that in mind? I think they know that, but what this means is, of course, that it's not good enough to have a ceasefire that lasts for six months or nine months. We need something that lasts. And my understanding
My understanding is if we want to have a ceasefire or a peace deal that lasts, it will require the permanent, the long-term engagement of the United States along with her European allies in and around Ukraine. Otherwise, the risk of this breaking apart again, of the war getting started again, will be too high.
One more thing. Can you have all of that cooperation if you have the White House talking about annexing Greenland from Denmark, right? It feels like this is kind of undermining the cooperative effort you're going for. Well, I can tell you one thing. In the margins of the Munich conference in February, I was sitting next to, at dinner, next to a long-term member
advisor to President Trump and the advice I was given I'm happy to share. She said to me, "You Europeans make a mistake.
You don't take our president seriously, but you take him verbatim. You interpret each and every word of his. You should do the exact opposite. You should take him really seriously, but understand that the language he uses is sometimes not the language you guys are used to in Europe. I think that's good advice.
So I'm not panicking about Greenland and Panama, etc. Okay, all right. Ambassador, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate your time. Okay, it is about 56 minutes past the hour. Here's your morning roundup. Roundup! Roundup! Roundup!
So right now there were some pro-Palestinian protests at Columbia University. Dozens of people were arrested there and the school says that they called the police when the protesters tried to force their way into the campus library. It's unclear what charges they may face. Secretary of State Marco Rubio says the Trump administration is now reviewing their visa statuses.
and the U.S. now has more than a thousand confirmed measles cases this year. It's the second year that cases have been this high since the disease was declared eliminated in the U.S. about 25 years ago. Most of the cases are centered around West Texas. That outbreak has expanded to New Mexico, Oklahoma, and possibly Kansas.
And today, the man accused of driving his car through Jennifer Aniston's gate will be in court. He's facing both stalking and vandalism charges. Earlier this week, police say he rammed his car into the gate, but a security guard caught him and held him until police arrived. Aniston was home at the time.
And several cast members in the Kennedy Center performance of Les Mis plan to boycott the show on the night that President Trump will be there. According to sources, he's now the chairman of the Kennedy Center and had appointed new trustees while ousting some of the previous ones. And this boycott highlights basically that friction between the administration and prominent art institutions. The group chat is back. Les Mis or bust?
I know that you have some connections to the Kennedy Center. It feels like weirdly rough times there, though I don't know why. No, what actually surprises me most about this is their union gave them the option to opt out. And that's just really unheard of. I mean, a lot of these contracts have been done for years, at least a year prior. I mean, there's some happy understudies. Exactly. I mean, I don't...
- Listen, whether you agree or not agree with what he did in regards to firing everybody and things like that, they're trying, the Kennedy Center did have a financial problem and they're trying to fix it from what I understand.
He's doing a fundraiser after the vote. We'll see if he fixes it because this is his favorite show. This is not necessarily polled in any way. Can I come to you about this, this fight over the culture, so to speak? I don't think nobody has done more cuts in the arts than this president and what he's proposing in Congress and all the way around. You mean like other agencies, humanities? Everything that has to do with art.
and culture in his mind the way things were is he wants to see it eliminated he wants to see it in the fashion of what he believes is art and culture which just goes in direct contrast with what art is in the minds of the artist interesting okay phil last minute to you i don't know if you wanted to sing if there was a favorite yeah pitch five can we get a pitch fight for phil are any of the leads involved in tariff discussions
If not, I don't really have much visibility. Honestly, at this point, they probably are. I will say what's fascinating about the financial element of this is lawmakers on Capitol Hill have been talking about actually boosting funding to the Kennedy Center. It turns out if you have a direct line to Trump, if he has control over your institution, it may actually benefit you financially. Whether that benefits you artistically is a different question. Monster Trump shows are coming. You wait. Monster Trump shows. Okay. Thanks to the group chat. Thank you for waking up with me. I'm Audie Cornish, and CNN News Central starts right now.
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