Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
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Penn State World Campus delivers on your time. Click the ad or visit worldcampus.psu.edu to learn more. This is the final episode of Season 4. If you haven't listened to the first 14 episodes, be sure to go back and binge them or else nothing will make sense. Also, after you're done listening, be sure to email me your burning questions about Season 4 to counterclock at audiochuck.com.
Like we've done with previous seasons, Ashley Flowers and I will try to answer your questions as best as we can when we come back in a few weeks with a bonus episode. But for now, here's episode 15, Serious. On Wednesday, August 4th, 2021, the Florida Medical Examiners Commission met in person, a rarity considering the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic on in-person gatherings.
The meeting marked the commission's official third-quarter board meeting, and it was open to the public. It took place inside a grand ballroom at the Waldorf Astoria Resort in Orlando, Florida. Yep, right in the heart of the happiest place on Earth: Disney World. Which I have to say was kind of ironic, considering the room was crowded with dozens of medical examiners and FDLE agents who are employed in probably the most unhappy line of work.
Anyway, I was the only journalist in attendance, and just one of three people who'd signed up to speak during the public comment. I could tell from the moment I entered the ballroom, I stood out. Based on the conversations and idle chatter going on around me, it felt like everyone knew each other, and the nine board members who were lingering around their chairs arranged in a panel lined up at the front of the room all gave me glancing looks, as if to say, "Who's that? And why does she have a recorder?"
I'd be willing to bet money that this group had probably never had a reporter show up to one of their quarterly meetings, let alone an investigative journalist working on a podcast. Two days earlier, I'd emailed and spoken on the phone with a man named Chad Lucas, who coordinates the MEC's quarterly meetings. I told Chad that I would be using my five minutes during public comment to request that the board review the actions of Dr. Russell Vega in the John Wells case.
I'd also be requesting the board get to the bottom of why the 12th district had such an unusually large number of undetermined death rulings in 2017. Chad communicated my information to the board members prior to the meeting and supplied them with all of the documents on the case that I'd sent in an organized packet. Right at 10 o'clock in the morning, the chairman of the board punctually hushed the room and called the meeting to order. Good morning, everyone. Welcome to the Medical Detainers Commission meeting.
I'm Dr. Stephen Nelson, the chairman of the Medical Examiner's Commission. Members of the public shall limit their comments to five minutes. After delivering those instructions, each board member stated their name out loud and their title. I'm Robin Hinton-Shepard, and I represent the funeral directors of Florida. I'm Charlie Cooper. I'm the final defendant.
Every one of them came from various career fields: two medical examiners, a state attorney, a public defender, a sheriff, a funeral home director, another lawyer, and a county commissioner. Some of the seats were filled, some of them were vacant. But they were an assorted bunch for sure. After the members introduced themselves, everyone else in the room stood up one by one and said their names and titles too, which I'll be honest was really awkward considering there were like 50 or 60 people in attendance.
Not wanting to be the only one who stayed silent, I didn't hesitate when it got to me. "Delia D'Ambra, investigative journalist." If up until that point anyone had any doubt about why I was there, it became clear in that moment. I got some head turns and leaning over looks, but whatever, I'm used to it. After a few more people introduced themselves, I heard a man's voice from several rows behind me say that he was Dr. Russell Vega, the chief medical examiner of the 12th district.
When I heard his voice, I felt my heart jump a little bit in my chest because this was the guy I'd be speaking about during my five minutes in public comment, and he was sitting just a few seats away from me. For the next 45 minutes, the board quickly cruised through its agenda, and before I knew it, it was time for public commenters to take the podium. A man who was facilitating some kind of joint project with the board spoke right before me, and when he wrapped up, it was my turn to step in front of the mic. "Delete the camera."
Before I could get my first word in, the chairman piped up with a disclaimer specifically for me. We've received your correspondence. This is really not the format for the correspondence. We'll give you five minutes to talk about that. But this is not the fact-finding board at this point. But from here, we will examine the complaint. We'll look at it from the standpoint of
I thanked him and forged on with my full statement, which I made sure timed out at just shy of four minutes. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
Hello everyone, my name is Delia D'Ambra and I'm an investigative journalist for Audiocheck Podcast Network. For the last several months I've been investigating the July 2003 death of a 17-year-old man named John Wells who died from a gunshot wound and drowning in Arcadia, Florida.
On July 9, 2003, John's death was ruled a homicide by Dr. William Anderson of the District 12 Medical Examiner's Office. Dr. Anderson is now in private practice, but at the time was employed by the 12th District.
Two weeks after Dr. Anderson concluded his initial findings, the 12th District ME's office requested a second physician named Dr. Daniel Spitz to consult on the case and conduct a second autopsy. Dr. Spitz's findings were the same as Dr. Anderson's, that John Wells died as a result of being shot by another with a manner of death as homicide.
Fourteen years later, in February of 2017, Dr. Russell Vega, who is the current chief of the 12th District ME's office, met with DeSoto County law enforcement investigators and agreed to review the case and reconsider John Wells' manner of death.
On March 15, 2017, Dr. Vega amended the manner of death on John Wells' autopsy and his death certificate and changed it from being a homicide to undetermined, thus allowing law enforcement to close the criminal investigation into John's death.
I have provided supporting public documents to Chad Lucas and the board on this matter, which includes Dr. Vega's two-page explanation of why he changed John's manner of death despite expressing that he had doubts the victim's wound trajectory and likely immediate incapacitation matched the theory that law enforcement had presented.
Dr. William Anderson and Dr. Daniel Spitz have stated on record that neither of them was contacted by Dr. Vega prior to Dr. Vega filing his amendment on the autopsy. Both physicians feel their input would have been helpful and necessary in order for Dr. Vega to reasonably change the manner of death in this case. I am requesting Danny C evaluate Dr. Vega's actions and his autopsy addendum and determine if all Florida statutes were followed.
Lastly, please consider this data taken directly from the MEC's annual workload reports dating back to 2003. On average, in the last 18 years, the number of deaths ruled as homicides by the District 12 Medical Examiner's Office have been consistent between 35 and 40 homicides per year.
In all of those years, with the exception of one year, the number of deaths ruled as undetermined averaged between five and eight. So significantly less undetermined deaths and homicides in that region. In 2017, the same year that the 12th District changed John Wells' manner of death from homicide to undetermined, that office ruled 17 deaths as undetermined, the highest number of undetermined death rulings than any year prior.
I would like the MEC to evaluate its own data and figure out why this anomaly occurred in the 12th district in 2017 and request that Dr. Vega and his staff provide a reasonable explanation. As I speak before you today, I am four months pregnant with my first child. I hope that my child will live to see beyond their 17th birthday, which was not a luxury afforded to John Wells.
For the sake of a surviving family and the general public, please consider this request and information and pursue it. Thank you. As I walked away from the podium, the room got quiet. I think everyone was digesting what I just laid out. I caught a glimpse of Dr. Vega and one of his assistant M.E.s near the back of the room and knew that everything I just said had landed on them with a lot of weight.
To be fair, though, I'd requested to speak with Dr. Vega multiple times before that point, and I was also still waiting on his staff to fulfill public records requests. So it's not like there wasn't fair warning and due diligence on my part. By the time I sat back down in my seat, the chairman had quickly gotten things moving along again, and the next public commenter spoke for, I'm not kidding, 20 minutes.
So yeah, that whole "you only have five minutes" thing had a loose enforcement policy, I guess. The lady that spoke after me went well over her allotted time, but she did end up getting cut off. Not by the board, but by a really abrupt interruption. Somewhere in the hotel, someone had pulled a fire alarm.
In a matter of seconds, the MEC meeting adjourned and everyone started quickly scurrying from the ballroom. As I was walking and shoving my notebook, laptop, and recording equipment into my bag, a man came right up alongside me. It was Dr. Russell Vega.
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Unfortunately, in the commotion of the moment with the fire alarm blaring, people brushing past me, and me trying to juggle a bunch of stuff in my hands, my recorder stopped recording. I don't know if I hit a button or what, but either way, I wasn't able to capture my brief face-to-face interaction with Dr. Russell Vega as we were walking out. For about two minutes, we spoke in the corridor right outside the ballroom amidst clusters of attendees and the alarm still echoing through the building.
Vega's first words to me were that he did not appreciate me "ambushing" him, and that he'd be happy to sit down and talk about the John Wells case any time. He gave me his business card with his direct contact information on it, and said I could reach out to him for a formal interview, and he would gladly talk things through with me.
I told him I'd had no intention of ambushing him, but felt that speaking at the meeting was necessary considering all the information I'd brought up and the fact that up until that point I'd only gotten minimal cooperation from his office. We agreed I'd reach out and could go from there. Then we both left in opposite directions. A few hours later, when I'd returned home from Orlando, I sent Dr. Vega an email requesting an interview.
The next day, he replied, saying, quote, End quote.
This email frustrated me for one big reason. I had specifically asked Chad Lucas when we spoke prior to the MEC's meeting whether or not my request to the board would be considered an official complaint against Dr. Vega. I had made it clear that I did not want to blast Vega in a formal capacity. I simply wanted to bring my concerns to the attention of the MEC board.
Over the phone and via email, Chad had assured me that what I'd submitted for public comment would not qualify as an official complaint. But sometime between our conversation on the afternoon of August 3rd and the morning of August 4th, that had changed. When I expressed my disappointment about the mix-up to Dr. Vega and Chad Lucas, Chad's response suggested that the only way to remedy the situation was for me to officially withdraw what I'd submitted.
It felt like a trap, and I wasn't going to do it. I informed the MEC that despite the unfortunate mess they'd made by categorizing my request as an official complaint, I wasn't going to take back what I'd said or asked of them. If Vega wanted to talk with me, my door was always open. And that's where we left it. Until October 22, 2021, almost three months after the quarterly meeting.
The Florida MEC sent me an official letter informing me that they'd found no probable cause to pursue my request. The full letter is available on our website if you want to read it.
The two big things they addressed were, one, that the MEC board believes Dr. Vega's amendment to John Wells' death certificate was justified, since it came after a thorough review of materials from the original death investigation and law enforcement investigations, as well as the report provided by Bevel Gardner and Associates.
And two, under Florida law, Dr. Vega has the ability to review historical cases and provide professional medical opinions without the consent of previous medical examiners who worked on a case. In other words, Vega didn't have to consult Dr. Anderson before changing John's manner of death from homicide to undetermined.
What the letter did not address in any shape or form was why there were so many undetermined manner of death rulings by the 12th District M.E.'s office in 2017. Like, it's just completely absent from the board's response letter. I don't know if they intentionally chose not to look into this or what, but as far as I can tell, it's not going to be addressed, which I feel is a big problem.
If the MEC, the very entity that defines itself as being "charged with establishing uniform standards of excellence in statewide medical examiner services and conducting administrative investigations," isn't going to look into that anomaly, then who is? After receiving the letter, I reached out to Dr. Vega one more time requesting an interview, but I never got a response.
"I hope that if he hears this show, he'll change his mind. I think it would be really important for everyone to hear his side of things." Non-responses have been a consistent theme with folks in this story. DeSoto County Sheriff's Office won't talk, Vega won't, and of course, there's Pat Strader, who won't talk either. It's disheartening, but in the end, that's how it goes sometimes. But of everyone I just mentioned, the Sheriff's Office in DeSoto County's silence has troubled me the most.
If John's case is technically labeled as closed or cleared in their book, then why not speak about it? Explain the conclusion you came to so there's no lingering doubt just hanging out there. After thinking about that for a long time, I can only reckon in my mind one reason why their silence has gone on for so long. And that's because maybe they're just not confident in James Curti's investigative findings from 2017. And now it's kind of past the point of no return.
Maybe they have doubts about what the truth really is. The reason I say this is because when you read through James' 2017 final report, it just feels very surface level. On top of that, I found something in his report that calls into question the integrity of the entire thing. On page three of the document, James wrote, quote, Follow up.
"On May 24, 2016, I re-interviewed Patricia Strader and Patrick Skinner. Upon completion of their interviews, their testimony was consistent with their original accounts." The problem with that statement is that Patrick Skinner has no memory of that interview taking place. Like, at all. Probably around '07 was the last call I think I got from Kurt.
I have this report from the cold case guy who closed it and he um... So this is the detective's report who closed the case in 2017. It's from 2017 and so he goes through like your old statements. Yeah, so Detective Curdy says, "On 5/24/16, I re-interviewed Patricia Strater and Patrick Skinner. Upon completion of their interviews, their testimony was consistent with their original accounts."
Were you not interviewed in May of 2016? May of 2016. 5-24-16, I, Detective Curdy, re-interviewed Pat Strater and Patrick Skinner. Upon completion of their interviews, their testimony was consistent with their original stories. I know memory's fallible, but I'm... Did you speak to him on the phone? I don't think so. What was his name? His name is Detective James Curdy. James Curdy. From DeSoto County Sheriff's Office.
I feel like my wife would know about that too. Because, I mean, we were together May. May of 2016. So that was before I moved up here. I was still in Arcadia. I'm drawing a blank. If it was a quick phone call, I feel like I would remember.
Now, just to be clear, I'm not saying James Kurdi lied in his report about interviewing Patrick. Maybe he did interview him, but I can't find the paper trail that proves that. The fact that Patrick doesn't even recognize James' name or speaking with him at all, I think is devastating to the credibility of DeSoto County's investigative process in 2016. And, ultimately, the entire document James Kurdi submitted.
I'm not here to cast judgment or say what's right or what's wrong, but this glaring discrepancy speaks volumes. I don't know why DCSO has moved on from this case with no questions asked. I mentioned in the last episode that their motivation just being that they wanted to get an open homicide case off their books just doesn't seem like a realistic reason to me.
I mean, they still have plenty of unsolved murders in their jurisdiction. Some even date back further than John's. They've got open-ended murder cases as far back as the 1980s on their roster. So why clear and close John's case and not take any credit for it? Again, I think it comes down to a question of confidence. I would argue that the reason we are where we are is because mistakes were made and compounded, and perhaps covered up.
Finding a way to conclude my investigation and really wrap my mind around this story has been tough. It's been emotionally draining. But I think where I've ultimately landed is that I believe John was murdered. If you're not convinced of that by now, that's fine. Maybe I'm in the minority here.
But regardless of which conclusion you've come to, one thing I know for sure is that a lot of the people who knew John during the 17 years he was alive and the people tasked with finding out how he was killed failed him. For better or for worse, his family's non-stop infighting and their inability to get him the help he might have needed to deal with the behavioral and emotional problems he had hurt him.
From everything I've learned about John, from the moment he was born, he was denied a chance at healthy, loving relationships that would have benefited him and maybe even changed the course of his life. He was a young man with a big imagination and dreams. He liked animals. He liked the outdoors. You know, he talked about going to the Coast Guard. When he was little, it was so weird. He said one day he wanted to own a general store, just sell everything there.
And I asked him, and I said, well, what's it going to be the name of that? He says, White Cherries. I said, what? Yeah, White Cherries. And I'll sell lanterns and pickles. And he started naming weird stuff. I thought, well, that's good. John's actual family may have been scattered and tattered, but his close friends, people like Patrick Skinner, considered him family and still would if he was around. I think we would have definitely still been friends. I imagine he would have kids by now.
John's dad, Mac, was a distant figure for most of John's life, and over the years he's blamed himself for his failures as a father, including being the person who purchased John's Ruger revolver for him.
Mack has always believed that John's gun was the murder weapon that killed him, which based on what I've presented in this show may not necessarily be the case.
But even with that being said, though, these days Mac is less concerned with figuring out what firearm killed his son and more concerned with identifying the person responsible for pulling the trigger.
But one day somebody's gonna talk
What would you tell the person who's responsible for his death who has been unknown or not identified all of these years? Probably wouldn't be in conversation to do it.
The last time Mack ever saw John was the Monday evening before he was killed. John was at Mack's trailer and left to go to the house party at Danny Jones'.
Mack said before John crossed the doorframe, he got out of his recliner and gave his son a hug and told him he loved him. That moment has forever stayed with Mack, and he hopes that when it's his time to go, he'll get to play that scenario out again. I'd tell him maybe love him and miss him and I'll be seeing you.
Other family members who I think, like it or not, considerably failed John are Skip and Pat Strader. Regardless of their reasons why, they hid critical evidence and information from law enforcement investigators. In doing so, they thwarted the police's ability to investigate the crime scene unmanipulated.
The choices Skip and Pat made on the day John died and in the days after crippled the authorities' ability to do their job in some ways. As adults, the fact that they did not even attempt life-saving measures on John when they found him face down in the water was a lack of action I'm not sure I'll ever be able to understand or reconcile in my mind.
The one person that I think didn't fail John was his best friend, Patrick Skinner, a voice you've heard throughout this entire series. Patrick spoke with police willingly every time they asked. He never wavered on his story, and he's been the only person to not run and hide when asked to discuss the intimate details of this case.
He sat down with me, a total stranger, nearly 20 years after finding his friend dead in the water, and he didn't hold back. I believe Patrick sincerely wants to know what happened to John and is upset he's never gotten clear answers. He genuinely still misses his best friend, and you can hear it in the way he talks about John. I would love for him to be able to meet my wife, meet my daughter. I don't have a lot of close friends, never have.
He was one of my close friends. It would be nice to have someone like him that I've got those things in common with. I don't want to leave this story open-ended, but sometimes that's just the nature of this line of work. There's not a pretty bow to tie up everything with a happy ending.
I'll tell you though, that I feel this case is far from over. Or at least, there's a bit of light that I think is coming from a cracked door that will just take a bit of pushing to swing wide open and possibly result in some big changes. Just a few months ago, Dr. Russell Vega called Helen Hough. They spoke for half an hour and afterwards she called me.
She said that Vega told her he was not an expert in the way firearms function. He solely depended on law enforcement's information when he changed John's manner of death in 2017. He said he didn't have enough expertise to know if the information that he was given was wrong. He specifically said that he did not consider John's death to be a true accident. He said he actually leans more toward it not being an accident.
However, based on the info he got, he felt there was enough doubt raised that he changed the death certificate. He told Helen that he couldn't and wouldn't swear in court to John's death being a result of an accident, but what he needs is more information. He said he had no problem with FDLE getting involved again if they chose to. He also said he'd be happy to speak with Ruger Firearms as well, whatever it took to give him cause to evaluate the case for a second time.
Until he's provided new, credible information from an official law enforcement source that contradicts what he was given in 2017, Vega unfortunately just won't be able to do anything with the case. So here's where I think you, the listeners, can help. If you believe that the criminal investigation into John's death needs to be reopened, then write, call, email, snail mail the Florida Department of Law Enforcement's headquarters.
You can also contact their Sebring, Florida office, which is the office that handled John's case in the very beginning. You should also contact DeSoto County Sheriff's Office. You can also reach out directly to the District 12 Medical Examiner's Office in Sarasota. Contact information for all of those agencies is in the show notes and on our website, counterclockpodcast.com.
This July is the 19th anniversary of John's death. If he were still here, he'd be 36 years old by now. Who knows? Maybe he'd have opened up that general store he told his mom about. Maybe he'd have some kids. A family life better than his own. Maybe he'd be a business owner. Nobody will ever know what would have been. But he's not here. He never made it out of that pasture in July of 2003.
the same land that to this day is heavily fenced and barbed wired off from visitors. After all the work I've put into investigating this case, I've realized that my initial assessment about all that security on the Southeast Hansel property might have been wrong. I don't think the barriers in signage are about keeping people out. I think they're there to keep something in, something that may explain who took John Wells' future.
Something that can only be uncovered by reexamining the past. I hope you all enjoyed listening to this season of CounterClock and take action to contact the entities I told you about. If you like the show and want to see more behind-the-scenes videos and pictures of the people, places, and evidence involved, go to our website, counterclockpodcast.com.
Like we've done with all of the seasons so far, executive producer Ashley Flowers and I will be back in a few weeks with a bonus Q&A episode to answer your burning questions about Season 4's case. Be sure to email your questions to counterclock at audiochuck.com. Only submissions to that official email account will be read and reviewed.
Counter Clock is an AudioChuck original show. The executive producer is Ashley Flowers, and all research, reporting, and writing is done by me, your host, Delia D'Ambra. So, what do you think, Chuck? Do you approve?
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