Ep. 112: Whitetail Rut with Randy Milligan and Brock Shelton
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Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. We are back at one of my, what's become one of my favorite hunts. We are hunting whitetail here in Kansas with our good buddy Randy Milligan and Brock Shelton. Welcome to the show, guys. Glad to be here. Thanks. Thanks for having us. Yeah, it's always a great time. I've told this joke a bunch. I always thought I was going to whitetail hunt when I got old and couldn't mule deer hunt or elk hunt anymore. But this has truly turned into one of my favorite hunts of the year. We get to come out here, sit in a tree, watch a

you know, God's green earth, wake up and birds chirp and turkeys do their thing. White tail rut. And, uh, it's, it's been a blast and can't thank you guys enough for everything you guys do, you know, year round, uh, um, you know, make sure the white tail hunting is good. Well, you kind of hit it rough this year with, uh,

They're pretty much locked down. You know, the first two days, I think you guys saw a lot of rutting and running. And then the last couple of days, it's been a little bit slower just because they've been locked down. Yeah. So Kansas in general has been, you know, you guys have had what, two or three years of what you guys would consider drought? I would say three years, bro. Yeah, I would say three. We've been below average the last three years.

So, you know, since we've been coming here, you know, since you gave us the invite, graciously gave us the invite a couple years ago to come out here and start deer hunting, we've kind of deer hunted through that drought. And, you know, there's still been good bucks around, great bucks around. This year, you guys finally got a bunch of spring rain, maybe too much rain at times, but seemed to have some good horn growth. And, you know, as we were watching, you know, pictures and trail cams, it seemed like you guys had some, you know, really good deer, maybe more good deer around this year than normal. Yeah.

I think we'd have really struggled this year if we wouldn't have got the rain we did in the spring. And we've gotten a few inches here in the last couple of weeks. It's helped a lot. I'll be honest with you. I didn't know if we were going to get a fall plot up, but we got about five inches in the last 15 days. And I know looking at Brock's plots and mine, they're all greening up. So we're pretty excited about that. Yeah, that also helped put a little water in the creeks for the deer chasing does. They can stop by the creeks, get a drink and.

Helps everything. Water's the key. I mean, it really is for us. And again, when you have a three-year drought, it makes it tough. I mean, we've been putting water in buckets and everything else to try to make sure they have water. I know the stand I hunted out of this year that I've hunted quite a bit, that little creek that was behind me is flowing full. You know, where years pass, there's maybe some puddles on the corner. Yeah.

is it's good also for for summer water right it helps prevent you know the cwd and all the things they can get from all having to you know concentrate it at water sources right so did you guys were you guys able to avoid you know about of that or did it still kind of get some of your deer this summer as well you know i've not seen i know i've heard of a few dead deer uh i know last year last summer all the farmers

myself, Brock, we all did. We had our ponds dug out. I've been here 20 years and this pond behind our house, I've never seen dry and it was dry last year. So we brought in, you know, guys to dig these ponds out and now they're all full. But we've

We've got a couple of spring ponds here close, and I think we've got a little lake over here about a mile to the north of us. So we've been fortunate right in this area, but I know a few areas. I've heard one guy, you know, found 10 or 12 dead deer in his field. And so it's tough, but it's tough a lot of places, you know.

What are you guys seeing on your properties, just overall deer numbers? Are they increasing, holding steady, declining a little bit? I would say currently they're probably holding steady. If anything, maybe a little bit of decline, but water's the key. And I think a lot of people don't realize that until you go through like what we had the last three years. And then it's like we'd been fortunate with timely rains and the timeliness is probably important because we were

We had way too much rain probably in the springs washing out. They had to replant Milo. And then it was almost like a spigot turned off. Our summer turned dry, creeks dried up and farmers were worried about, you know, Hey, we're going to have water to get through the winter, you know? And then fortunately we, like Randy said, we've had probably five, five inches in the last 15 to 20 days. And,

we put seed in the ground for fall food plots and nothing you can do then, but, but wait, you know, like we may be having stands over dirt piles, dirt fields. I, uh, replanted my plots twice, you know, came in and drilled them, uh, put them in early hoping we'd get a rain. You know, I, I jokingly, you always say any of us can be a weather person. You just gotta be 50% right. And, uh, most jobs you can't do that. But, uh,

I drilled all of ours three days before we had a 100% chance of rain. We got zero. And so, you know, a month later with no rain, we drilled again. But I noticed this week ours is looking pretty good. So I'm pretty excited. We got some, what, an inch, inch and a half there. Our second and third day of the hunt, you know, that night helped out. And it looks like you guys are going to get another inch or two tonight as well. Tonight, they're calling for one to two.

So is that going to be enough to finish off your guys' fall food plots and get those to finish out all your winter crops? It should go ahead and get those.

we planted mostly grain crops and a few turnips and stuff it should go ahead and get those finished out and then hopefully we get some cooler weather we've been as you know we've been having some warm weather and that doesn't help with the deer movement during daylight hours so yeah that's what i was going to go to next uh the turnips need some frost um it's been warm um and the wind hasn't been quite right um you know i know

I'm learning, but it sounds like from the three years I've been here, you guys want those north winds, those colder winds. We've had, what, half a day on this week trip with some north in it. Everything else has either been out of the south or the southeast, it seemed like. You guys primarily, I mean, there are some, Randy's got a ton of sets here, so we usually can get up in a tree. But a lot of the better sets are the majority of your guys is north.

you know, setups are for North wind. You know, I always say, you've heard me say over and over weather trumps everything. And, uh,

Two years ago, you were up here, and you and I almost froze to death in a stand on November 13th or something. It was 20 degrees. And, you know, in Kansas, I always hear people say, well, the wind's blowing the deers. If the deer doesn't eat in the wind up here, they're going to starve because it's always going to blow. But, you know, it's November the 17th, and I think we've had two small frosts.

and normally this time of year brock and i are you know hoping it's 30 degrees and and uh so you you guys you were fortunate you killed a good deer yep and uh first day but it we've just it's been in 60s is 60s now we got the full moon which i like the full moon i've always enjoyed hunting the full moon uh but the weather trumps it all and and we've just had some warm weather so i know it's been tough for dirks this week yeah yeah um

Yeah, that warm weather, yeah, just seems to kind of slow them down, you know, later movement. And then that moon, we noticed, you know, we had some other buddies, you know, some of your buddies in camp, Brian. You know, he was sitting, I would say, more midday than we were at times, and he was seeing some good movement from that full moon, you know, midday on these warm days. So it was kind of some, you know, different patterns and different movement. Well, the guys that hunt here, like Brian and myself, Brock,

on a full moon like this type of full moon, I'd rather hunt that October full moon, but this full moon, you'll see us setting in the middle of the day. You know, Brian probably didn't even get out there until nine o'clock in the morning, you know, knowing they're going to move during the day. And, and, and, but,

But again, you watch the moon, you watch the weather. Again, Brock, I think, is going to take a couple of days off next week because he's finally going to get 50 and 30s at night. And Brock will kill a big deer. He'll kill a big deer next week. I'm betting on it. And that's one of the – I mean, we talk about it a lot. And we're coming out here. We're traveling halfway across the country. You know, you –

you don't have the luxury of sitting out. Even Randy, traveling to his hunting grounds, it's like when you're here, you've got to hunt. Where Brock, living on his place, he's like, I'm not going to get up and I'm not going to risk the wind. I'm not going to waste my time. And so you're waiting for the opportunity coming next week. And I'm one of these guys, I don't want to mess it up.

and and run the deer off booger him out and not see him again so a lot of times it's better for me to wait until all the conditions are in my favor we we do not hunt the bad wind

you know, fortunately I am four and a half hours away and, and many a time Brock, Brock and I probably talk on the phone every single day and, you know, Hey, we got a front coming in. I'll take off work. I'm here. And, but Brock is fortunate because in Brock's a great hunter. I mean, we just do not hunt the bad wind and he's fortunate. We may go a whole week. He may go a whole week, not sit on a stand because, and they may have a big deer coming in there every day, but,

bad wind not going to go and as soon as he gets one i've known brock 20 years and i'll bet you i know several of the big deer he's killed on one set yeah that first you know what it seems to be you know the others do that as well you know they're they're just not going to hit that stand they're going to make sure their approach is right the wind's right you know for that deer to move and then um how much do you think brock or you know on sets like that is it

Is it just that wind and you just know that that buck's going to show up? Or are you also seeing that buck on camera plus the right wind? You know what I mean? Like to get that deer in the exact right spot, there's a little bit of patterning plus that right weather. Yeah, there's a little bit of homework that goes into it. A lot of times when I'm looking at trail cam pics, I'm not just seeing that that deer's in there. I'm wanting to see which way he's coming from. And then I'll look to see which way the wind was blowing while he's doing that.

So you're trying to look, okay, he's coming from that away. My access to my stands, you know, from the opposite way. I'm fine there. What wind is he using? He's playing it safe. And then you just use all that information you gained and use it against him.

So, you know, in elk hunting, you know, same thing you guys do in whitetail, you know, give them the wind a little bit. That buck wants to think he's safe. In your guys' experience, you know, when you're getting down to that real technical level of that buck, has he always got that wind right on his nose or is he giving you 45 degrees, 90 degrees? Like how safe is to, you know, you know what I mean? Like is that buck going to go with the wind straight at him or is he willing to risk it a little bit? I think he risks it some. Yeah.

I've got a deer behind my house right now I'm hunting and it seems like he's only coming in there on a west wind.

you know, he'll, he'll, he'll mess up. And, and again, they're rutting a little bit right now. So they're a little crazy. And, uh, I just have to have a better wind for me to get in there. So it's not blowing toward, I know which direction he's coming. We've got thousands trail cameras of him. Uh, he comes from the same direction every time. I just can't hunt him unless I got a North wind, you know, so I've not hunted him. And, um, so, uh,

I think sometimes we probably, a lot of people give deer a little bit more credit than they are. I mean, they're smart animals. They're, you know, I don't think they're humans, but this time of year, they got one thing on their mind, they're going to mess up. We just got to wait on them to mess up. They're not only going to feed with the wind in their face at all times. There's no chance.

You know, like elk, it seems like they feed with the thermals. They're feeding with the prevailing winds. They're only moving that direction. They're going to wait for the thermals to switch, move to bed. You know, they're almost always walking with that wind at their nose to some degree. And then it's almost like you have to intercept them at a 90 degree. Like, all right, if I give them 90 degrees, I'm pretty safe. But, you know, that big buck may still walk by my stand. And, you know, some of our sets this week,

once again, because we had to be here, we're probably risking it more. Like we're like, well, if that thing gets to this location, he's going to win me, but I'm going to shoot them before they get there, you know? And so you're playing that game. Well, that works out great until you got a doe or something, walk by and gets that. And then she boogers out, but that's just the game you have to play when you're, when you just don't have that perfect win. And I think too, if, if you're not over hunting a place or going into a place deer relaxed and they're,

They let their senses down just like humans. They're like, okay, I've been eating in here. I'm going to go up this draw and go to this food plot. They kind of get in a routine, and sometimes they'll do stuff when it's not in their advantage, and that's when you need to be there. I think you guys are in a tough spot sometimes because you guys are traveling. You've got seven days to hunt. So we're going to hunt those seven days. I know I was up here a couple of weeks ago, and I came to hunt for a week yesterday.

I'd never had to bat. I knew I didn't have a good win looking at it. I went home after two and a half days. You know, we have that advantage to be able to do that where you guys come, you're here seven days, you're going home, you're not coming back. So we're trying to hang enough sets to get you on a good deer. Fortunately, you got on a good deer, but, um,

So, you know, we do have that advantage of hunting. Yeah, we'll run into that recap here. It's going to be real short. Usually in Kansas, I'm the one that's stuck grinding it out. I think I've killed my deer last year. I killed it on the very last sit. We finally got some high pressure after a low and some rain for four or five days. But finally in Kansas, I kicked the monkey off my shoulder pretty early. We knew we had some south winds.

you guys weren't running a lot of cams on your south piece of property, right? And so there was a little bit. We had seen, like Randy showed me a picture the night before, like you might want to look at this deer if he comes in. He was around there. And, you know, so I get in.

It's funny. I'm going to tell the story ahead. My two bucks died within about 20 feet of each other last year and this year, but I shot them on different stands, but they both went to the same patch of timber to die. And I texted Randy. You'll never believe it. He died 20 yards from my other one. He's like, don't you be getting any ideas or trying to think that you own that spot. Two acres. He's going to buy two acres. Yeah, I'm trying to get Randy to do a property boundary adjustment so I can buy the end of this little sit, but...

So we knew we had South winds and Randy, I remember looking at this stand the very first, the very first day I ever hunted your property, we went and sat here turkey hunting. And you told me about, you know, the deer stand there and why you had said it. Well, on the South wind, it's, if you looked at it from an aerial and didn't know the topography, it's not a good set because you're blowing down to the river and the bend. But what it is, it's on, what would you say? An 80 to a hundred foot shelf.

Right on two different directions. So we're able to sit that stand and blow off. And then, you know, to paint the picture, there's a food plot that goes out on the point. And I'm just inside the timber between a draw and then where that point would run off.

A ladder stand. It was always a ladder stand. And then, like I say, I take zero credit for some of these deer I kill besides being able to shoot and sit in the stand. Randy is managing his property, Randy and his buddies. He went and hung an additional tree stand up there. So our camera guys had a spot. And I literally just get to climb in a tree, put an arrow on my bow and hunt. So I can't thank you guys enough for that. But get up in that stand.

Right off the bat, you see the deer that you don't want to see. I want to kill a big deer on your place, don't get me wrong, but I also feel like by getting the invite out here, sometimes I feel like I should be helping you do some management too. And right off the bat, I literally get my bow on the tree hook. I'm going to sit down for a little bit and just kind of watch the woods wake up. I can hear a deer coming to my right. I can see you had a big old body on them. Then you get your binoculars out and you're like, aww.

A short G2, big old eight point, definitely better than a five-year-old deer. And you're like, do I even tell Randy I see this one? So you watch him walk through. He's got a small eight with him. Those two are running the same trail. They kind of feed through in front and...

And so from daylight until I shoot my buck, I had deer in front of me working the edge of the field. I have a little, we called him Elliot, a little one by two, you know, comes up and he feeds around us. And I have some does and fawns worked our way in front and he's chasey. He chases them out in the field once they come back. He chases them out in the field the second time.

And he's off to the other side. I'm like, why is that spike not with the does anymore? You know, he's right on them. Well, I can, I catch a glimpse out of the corner of my eye and I'd see a big, you know, a rat coming in off of the field edge, you know, maybe 80 yards. And we are in Kansas. So to paint the picture, it is what it is. There's a, you guys have laid out a little pile of corn. You know, the does were swinging in those big bucks. Don't really care. They'll scent check it. And,

that buck came back to that doe. He wasn't coming to that corn. We've seen it a bunch of times. These more mature deer aren't coming to corn, but he's gonna come get behind that more mature doe. And fortunately it was 7:10 in the morning.

I sat for, what, 30 minutes, 40 minutes, and killed a really good 10. I've killed some good deer on that stand, and that's kind of what you have to do up here. I'm not a huge rut hunter, to be honest with you. I like to kill my deer around Halloween when they're really looking, or I will hunt them in December when it gets so cold. You know, rut, you may see a deer...

That deer that you shot didn't have a picture of him. No, he just showed up. But that stand that you were on, that's probably my favorite rut stand because it is a pinch point. They're going from one big set of woods to another set of woods. They got water there. I have a food plot in front. The woods are maybe 80 yards wide.

And it's just, they travel through there constantly. And you talk about feeding. I put that corn out the day before and it really, bucks aren't eating right now. I mean, we haven't seen any bucks on corn or anything. I put it out there to get the does attention, the smell, just so they'll hang in the area. I've not fed that. I normally never feed that area. Yeah.

And I just put that one bag of corn out there, you know, and, and I don't know if it was even corn or nut grub, but we do some nut grub because it has such a smell to it. It really brings the deer to attract it to it. And, uh,

so yeah, they weren't coming in there to eat. They were coming in there to, to mess around. So it's a great spot. And we had other deer, you know, we sat that stand later, just, you know, doe hunting and just observing. I love it. Well, I'm here. Might as well take advantage of sitting in a tree and watching the world wake up and, uh,

we could have killed some other deer in there that, you know, cause by day two, the corn was all gone. So I sat that stand later and they're still deer just naturally using that. We seen just as many deer, just not, you know, there was a three and a half year old nine point that went through there. We could have killed him, you know, so it's just a natural point for him. But it, you know, since we've been coming here, you know, I, you were very, you know,

You let me hunt that stand. So Randy, the way Randy's property, he's got some stuff that only he hunts. And he had killed his buck that year and let me go hunt some of his good stuff. And we were talking on that one. A lot of these big bucks, they're smart enough. They know which way the wind's blowing. They just know the does are maybe checking out some of this food. They're just what? 80, 100 yards downwind. They're trying to cover as much

dough ground as they can you know lay lay scent to you know pick up the scent of some dough so they're not even going through there um you know unless there's a dough on there if they want to come check her out what i love about that set you're on if if you see him you can normally shoot him if you can shoot your bow pretty decent you know if you can shoot out to 50 and 60 yards if you see the buck you can kill him from there yeah and that's what's nice you know so let's go through my whitetail setup i just got a new darton 35 setup um

I don't change my elk setup, so I'm the odd man out. I'm still shooting those Ironwell 125s. And I had a pretty quartering away shot, probably 45 degrees, but the buck was still and I was very confident in that shot. And I probably went in fifth or sixth rib back and lodged the broadhead into his front shoulder. And very good blood trail for only one hole in him. And I...

I've been knock on wood. Um, this table, um, we're sitting on made out of wood. Fortunately, so far in Kansas, I've, uh, been able to watch all of my books, you know, die. And that buck was dead within 10 seconds. Max ran off. And, uh,

you know, I was able to wait for Randy and Brock to come recover. It's always fun when you can do it as a group and take some good pictures. And yeah, it was my best Kansas buck so far, you know, not a giant, but a mature old deer. And like I say, if you keep killing too big of one too early, you're never going to kill a better one. So I'm just trying to slowly climb the ladder here and a good buck there. Well, you know, anytime you kill a deer in the 150s, which your deer was,

You've got to be excited. I mean, growing up the way I did in Arkansas, and I still live in Arkansas, I remember driving around a three-point on the back of my truck and thinking I'd killed a giant. And now Brock and I have been fortunate we've hunted up here so long.

we'll pass 150s if they're not mature and I think gosh I would have never done that yeah 30 years ago but uh we do oh we're I I know that I'm spoiled I you know watch a little you you learn about whitetail hunting for me from out west on the on the outdoor channel and you're like man Randy's got you know we're killing bucks bigger than most of that you know it's it's a pretty special place and uh I'm extremely thankful to get to you know to hunt a place like this but

Um, let's run into, to patterning, which, you know, you guys talked about maybe why you're, you're in there October. And then, um, we've been talking about it a lot, like just rut specific stands, um, you know, setting your property up for that, you know, the observation, you know, we talked about a little bit before the podcast, Randy was sitting in a,

you know, marginal winds or Randy's being forced to, to, he wants to hunt his big buck, but kind of, you know, off of the, the epicenter of where he is. So he's kind of just sitting in the fringes, but in your observation, you're seeing tons of deer movement. You know, I think you had a 20 plus buck day and,

and you observe where all these deer are wanting to go, if you had to kill these deer where you need to be, and you two ended up setting this new stand up a couple days ago and moving to that stand, which to me, it seems like we're hunting a lot of historical stands, but you guys went and set up a new stand and then hunted it the next day. You know, Brock, I will say that he has a couple hundred acres that I would say is probably as good as deer hunting I've ever been on.

And I'm fortunate I touch him, so I'm pretty much around him there. And I did. I had an unbelievable day. I saw 25 bucks in one morning.

And I know people say, oh, that's, I actually count them. So, you know, I'm watching them with binoculars and they seem to be coming out one piece of ground that I own. I'm sitting on a piece between me and Brock right on the property line. And I watch these deer and they're all coming out of the same set of woods, which is the same set of woods my big deer's in.

So we snuck in the day before yesterday, and I know you guys wanted to go with us. And Brock and I are a little paranoid a little bit. We go in together, just me and him. We try to keep our scent down. We literally...

barely talk while we're in there. Whispering, trying to be quiet as we can, not saying anything together. I joke Brock's my tree hanger. He can hang a tree stand in about 30 minutes. And we got up there. I handed him everything. We set it up right where it was. But it was right where I'd been watching these deer. And Brock and I went straight over there, got up in the tree, hung it. And the next morning, yesterday morning, I hunted it and had a great hunt.

And every buck that I saw, and I saw several, I could have killed every one of them. And not one of them winded me. Just us analyzing that situation. Well, what was pretty cool about that whole setup, too, is we got over there. He knew where he needed to be. And so we eased in there and looked at some different trees. And I always like going off of history, too. And we're sitting there looking, and it's like,

Looking at an oak tree, I'm like, well, that tree looks pretty good. I said, look, look, there's railroad spikes in there. Somebody used to have it years ago, and it was the neighbor guy, his boy, put it up. Shoot, it had to be 30-plus years ago. I'm like, well, this is probably going to be where you need to be. It looks like it would be a good spot. We've all seen plenty of gadgets and fads come and go, but here's one product that stood the test of time, Seafoam Motor Treatment.

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You know, we've talked, your property doesn't lend itself real well to like saddle type hunting, you know, or like instant tree climbing. So you got to go do a little bit of that prep work and, you know, cut all your shooting lanes in. And, you know, it seems to be real brushy. If you were to climb a tree, you probably not be able to shoot real great out of it unless you're on a field edge. Well, we take, you know, I've fortunately got a steel...

a battery pole saw and it doesn't make a lot of noise. And so, you know, Brock got up there, hung it really quick and say, Hey, cut this, cut this. So we trimmed everything up and, and we don't cut a lot of stuff. I mean, it's kind of tough getting up in that tree cause we left so much stuff in it to keep the cover. And, uh, like I said, I saw numerous bucks yesterday morning, never, uh,

Never got seen, and we wear first light clothes, you know, and I had a couple, several does right under me. And so fortunate, I'm looking forward to getting back and hunting that stand a little bit. I think there's a possibility a big deer will die there someday. Yeah, and that was set up specifically for these south winds. You needed a way to push in a little tighter to your buck's core area, but, you know, keep that wind good.

One thing I'm noticing around here, you know, we have a stand that they're kind of a couple of times that, you know, not that any stands here in mind, I'm not getting the, but the stand down below, I hunted down more than two creeks meet, um,

One thing we noticed there is the wind down there is a lot more swirly. Do you tend, do you guys tend to keep your stands up on ridges if possible, or do you just have to play it where they're at? And cause you know, coming from home, we get all these varying, we get thermal plus we get prevailing winds. Plus we get, you know, around home. If you're in a Creek bottom, the wind almost always goes downstream because the cool weather's pulling it down. Are you guys trying to avoid that if, if possible, or do you just,

set ridges or what's the best way when you're putting a stand? If you can stay out of the bottoms, it's, it's the way to go. You know, I know that the deer love traveling the bottoms because it's to their advantage, the wind swirling, they can smell everything in the bottom. But if you can get up on the edge of kind of like where you killed your deer, it's on a ridge and you use that terrain to your advantage and,

you take away the advantage the deer have, think they have. You know, if you're on the, I'm thinking of the spot where I like to hunt on my farm and I actually had to move it a little bit, some circumstances, and I moved my stand a little bit and I'm now kind of more down towards, not on the top of the ridge, but about halfway down and

And it'll be the only year that I'll have it there. I, as well, I'll say it's, it's going to be changed before next year because it just swirls too much. I mean, even, even on a,

especially in the evening time where the thermals are coming down. It's not optimum. That double set you're talking about that he got down into a couple years ago, you had a wonderful hunt down there. I actually killed a deer down there. But that morning it was really, really cold. Real cold. So you won't see me going in there very often unless it's real cold. And I normally go in there when it's rut.

They don't seem to smell as well when they're rutting, but I'll rarely go in there when it's not just so cold I can't hardly stand it where it's all rising up. But it's a great sit. You know, I've got a food plot out there, and I know two years ago when you killed your deer, again, you have a tendency to shoot deer the first –

First 30 minutes you got on a deer stand, but you saw a lot of deer that morning in there. It's a great hunt. That setup is amazing because you're in the draw between two great ridgelines that the deer like to travel. You got a CRP field back to your back corner. You got a big food plot. I think that year you had beans in it. And then you have a big horseshoe bend in that creek that just like everything's perfect. It's just the wind in there is just...

like a soup sandwich. It just will not sit still, but still some great hunts in there. And there's enough good wind in there that if the deer approach from the right way, you can kill it. Once again, it goes back to, we have to be on a stand somewhere. So at least there you're maybe, you know, only giving them 90 degrees of wind and just hope a deer doesn't come from that way. You know, part of it is what we try to do. We have enough sets out there that

that's a perfect stand when it's, you get up a real frosty morning, it's real clear, there's not a lot of wind, everything's going up and man, it can be, I've hunted it before and seen 15, 18 bucks in there and they're just going crazy. So it's, but it's,

But it's one of those I might only sit twice a year. You know, it's all about, again, Brock and I say this over and over, and I know a lot of people do, weather trumps everything to us. And so we just have to pay attention where we hunt. Let's switch gears a little bit. You know, everybody seems like everybody's talking about Kansas, and I think everybody's heard about Kansas. You guys are talking that there's just –

more hunting pressure here from outfitters, from neighboring property owners letting their buddies and their buddies hunt. Do you guys think that's going to start to take a toll on the age class? These deer leaving, how is that going to affect the future of some Kansas deer hunting, at least in this area? I know you guys...

you know, got pretty tight wraps on, on some of the stuff between you, but your other piece down South and some of the other, you know, leases that you have, um, it seems like there's a lot of people around the edges or the fringes or, or just around in general. Neighbors are key. You know, Brock and I've been together for a long time. So we have pieces here. Rodney, a good friend of ours, Crossroad has a lot of land, uh,

We fortunately have a lot of land in this area, several thousand acres. Down south, fortunate, that 400 acres that you guys are hunting, I have a great neighbor to the east that owns about 1,000 acres in there. We have a great neighbor to the south that owns about 10,000 acres, and they don't really hunt a lot. But, yeah, you know, up here, I remember starting to hunt. You could draw every year.

Now, I'm a non-resident landowner, so I get a tag, but we have a couple other buddies that hunt with us that used to, you got a tag every year. And now it's every couple of years, every once every, you know, you won't draw once every four years.

I hear that it's going to get a lot tougher. You know, Iowa is one of those. You know, I think a lot of us would live in Iowa if we could just to be a resident because it's such good deer hunting. But what hurts us here, I think, and Brock, I think you'll agree, you can only kill one deer. And...

One buck. One buck. Yeah, you can kill one buck. And, of course, you can kill a few does, and people don't like to shoot does. We try to. Brock is not a doe killer. But I joke with him. You know, you come up here, and the thing you're trying to do, and you mentioned it earlier, Jason, is you're trying to kill that big deer.

And everybody wants to kill that big deer when a five and a half, six and a half year old eight point walks by you. And we've talked about that first deer that walked by you. Nobody wants to shoot that deer because they're all worried about, I want to shoot a 170. When shooting a six and a half year old eight point is, that's something special. You know, that deer you think about has lived six and a half years and he didn't get there being done. And, and,

And so you have guys coming in here wanting to kill that one big deer, and we're getting overrun with eight points, nine points that are five and six and a half years old. But because you can only kill one buck deer.

You know, so Brock and I, between us, we have several cameras running. We're looking at so many deer going, man, that deer needs to be shot. That deer needs to be shot. You know. It's crazy the mentality. We talked about it a little bit. You know, somebody would rather come down here and shoot a two-and-a-half-year-old 10-point

than the six and a half year old eight point and it's just you know we we fight it out west you know mule deer hunting it's like why am i looking for the perfect little four point that may only be three and a half years old when i should be shooting the six and a half year old you know four by three that has crab claw forks like that's that's the trophy and uh it's not doing anything for your genetics let's roll into do you guys like that south piece i don't know how many you know dirk's out all week i don't know how many mature eights he saw do you guys feel that that's

affecting like genetic potential down the road at some point, like all these eights and then, you know, you're shooting every 10 off of the, off of the place. Yeah. I think it's affecting the genetics longterm. I mean, you're, you're letting the say that like that six year old five and a half, six year old eight point,

He's running off your good and mature, or I say mature, three-and-a-half-year-old that's 10 or 12 points. He's not being able to breed the does there because that eight point's just like a bully buck. He's just a tank, weighs close to 300 pounds, and just running everything off, just having a heyday because nothing's going to push him around. I mean, he's huge. And Dirk did.

did not shoot one of those bucks. And, you know, we give him a little hard time. I love Dierks to death, but now I did have a couple of hit bucks in there. I would have loved to seen him shoot. And I think if the weather would have, you know, been right, he would have killed one of those. Uh, the stand that he hunted most of the time is an unbelievable stand. Um, and, and he saw a lot of good mature eights and, and I hope he comes back later in the year. And if he,

hopefully he'll kill one of those. But here in this piece, Brock and I have several good 10 points, and we watch them, and fortunately we don't shoot them until they get mature. But we also have a ton of big eights back here. And Brock and I both, we've not killed a deer this year. We don't get too worried about it because we got until December. We'll both kill one. But the good thing about Brock and I both is,

If we don't kill that hit buck that I've got, and I've got a 170-inch buck, and so does he, if we don't, before Christmas, we'll kill a mature eight apiece and be happy with it. You look around the wall here and you see a bunch of 160s and 170s, but I'm as thrilled to kill a six-and-a-half-year-old eight that weighs 300 pounds. I'll shoot him all day long if it gets down to it. Well, even like last year, going back to the buck that I shot last year,

he wasn't as good as buck as the buck that was right underneath me. And I would venture to say nine out of 10 guys would have shot the, it was a wide 10 point frame was good. And I'm like, man, he looks like he's a four and a half year old deer. And this other deer is, you know, had to be, we'd sent his teeth in. We haven't got the results back yet, but it had to be,

six seven years old you know and so i'm like i'm gonna shoot the older deer i mean who knows what this four and a half year old could could grow into next year and you know sometimes that backfires i haven't seen him this year i know he made it through rifle season and through the season but i haven't seen him maybe he picked up moved on or something happened to him but you definitely won't see him if you shoot him as a four and a half year old you know so

You know, the great thing about that, Brock's got over on his place a beautiful deer that's got a third main bean, but he's got an older 10-point that's probably not going to score as well, but he's big, heavy, mature. And, you know, Brock a couple days ago was like, I think I'm going to shoot the big 10 instead of the other deer that might be five and a half, but he may be

Four and a half. You know, those are kind of things to us that's fun because we get to see, is he coming back next year? Yeah. Yeah, I got to sit in the stand with Randy. He let me go sit in the stand with him to try to kill his big deer one day when we had a decent wind. And we had kind of a surprise buck show up. And this is where you guys keep in tabs and pictures and everything. You had a buck show up with a bunch of extra points. When I first spotted him, I'm like, ah, we got a little buck coming. Yeah.

And I just bought them with my naked eyes. Well, Randy had already thrown his binos up. He's like, Jason, that deer's got a lot of extra points. I might be a good one. Well, I put my binoculars up. Well,

At that time, his falco, aging him, it was tough across the way. And I think if he would have came all the way in, we would have been able to age him really well. But we're already flipping through pictures as he's coming in. And you're like, that's that old deer. And Brock had a picture of him down in his place. One picture at night, I think he said, didn't look that old. But then you get a daytime picture of him. He's like white-faced, sunken neck. And you're like, that deer's ancient. And then we had a conversation in the blind area.

You're like, I might have shot that deer and seen what my mid 170s buck turned into next year. So it's this game you're playing. Like, do you shoot your 170s buck this year or could he turn into that 190 or 200? And you guys are always trying to play that game when you have it so good and so many options that you're like, do you shoot the 170s buck?

That deer come into 60 yards and, and I told you, I was going to, I grabbed, I got my bow. I was going to shoot that deer. He's got a double G threes, split G twos, split G threes, everything. And, and, uh,

You know, that's what's fun. I was texting Brock as he was coming up the field. Hey, you know, the deer with all the split Gs, send me a picture of him. And, you know, we're sitting here having a talk while the deer's walking up the field. You know, that deer's ancient. And, yeah, I was going to shoot that deer if he came in. We had a little marginal wind, and he didn't run off or anything. He's in there. So if he comes in before my big deer comes in, I will kill him and see what the other one does, you know.

that would I would be I'd be an anxious ball I would just I would be a mess here because he's like do you want to shoot 170s bucks are you gonna leave next year is he gonna come back bigger is he gonna die is he you know it's like what decisions do you make but at some point you just roll the dice and you guys have so many up-and-comers you know in the same piece you said you have another you know great 10 that's an up-and-comer so there's it's always gonna reload but it's like man they get to that you

If you've got a buck that's put together the right genetics, your 170 is going to turn into that 190 next year. What level are you trying to get them to? Or are you just looking at age class, like let's kill those fives, the sevens, and leave it at that? We're age class and big time, but this deer is a 160-inch deer that's probably seven and a half years old that I'm hoping has done a lot of breeding with all the splits he's got. He's been on us.

pretty much this year, but didn't have a picture of him until this year, and he's lived on us. Well, so the rut's going to kind of wind down here over the next, what, 10 days, 12 days? Right.

By Thanksgiving, it'll be over, I think. You guys will transition. Brock kind of hunts the same stands, right? Or not, right? Do you have some stands? Are you guys going to switch more back into that patterning, back to the cameras, trying to figure how do you guys move your hunts from here on to the end of the year? Randy and I kind of talked earlier. It's like we both love the rut, getting out, seeing what's happening, what's moving. But if you've got a target buck or two, the rut is...

Isn't is nerve wracking because you're like, man, I hope he doesn't run over to the neighbors that aren't on the same game plan and,

He gets, you know, smoked over on the neighbors. So a lot of times, you know, we'd like to have him shot before the rut so that we don't have to worry about that. But then you're kind of nervous through the whole rut going, I hope he doesn't get one or two far from home base here. And then after the rut, you know, they become more patternable again, coming back into food sources. And so it just changes things up. But, yeah, the rut can be –

It used to be more fun when I was a kid and didn't have target bucks and just go and have fun. When you've got a target bucks and running cameras, it's like, man, it's just so nerve wracking. You know, you're waking up seeing if he was in there at night or still around, you know, and not been shot or flew the coop to the neighbor's does. You know, as funny as to is my big deer. I hadn't had a, hadn't had a picture of him about three days. And, uh, you know, I know they're, they're up with does, but Brock went,

looked at a camera yesterday and my big deer's on brock right now which is good that's where i want him to be he's either on me and what's funny is brock won't go shoot him you know and if his deer shows up on me it's sad i was telling him yesterday well if he walks under me i won't shoot him i'll take a picture i mean that's good friendship there now we we both have a couple buddies that would shoot that deer but uh we we won't but you know you you

Dierks last year missed a big deer down on what we call the killing tree. It's got the name killing tree for a reason. It's a four-acre food plot that's half in clover, and this year it's half in turnips and some other stuff. After this rain, it looks great. I've got a 15-foot redneck sitting there. When it gets really cold...

that place will fill up and I'll get to see most of the hit bucks and just, you know, see what's left. And I'll probably be honest with you, I'll probably kill my deer right there later in the season. Come back to more patternable, more food sources. They got to eat after this rut. They got to put that weight back on. Yeah.

Well, where do we, what else do you guys got? Anything else on the, on the agenda or just finishing out white? One thing you guys have to do here. I'm not, I'm not preaching to you guys, but man, you guys have more coyotes than anywhere. I get, I get the fortune of hunting all over the place. You guys are loaded up with coyote. You know, I was talking to Steve, you know, your boss, Ronelli.

And he's a huge trapper. You know, I kind of read about him a little bit. You know, he's been here a couple times, and I didn't realize how good a trapper he is. And I've been telling him, man, you need to come and spend –

20 days here and just trap. Brock is coyote machine over here. Not enough. Not enough, but critters, coons, I grew up coon hunting as a kid growing up, and we've got way too many coons because we're big turkey hunters, as you know. You guys have a great call.

uh group there and and y'all been down here turkey hunting and uh we've just got to kill a lot of coons and coyotes and stuff and bobcats we're just overrun i watched a mama and three kittens the other day you know out not far from one of my stands and brock and i we like to kill our deer because then we get serious about calling cows brock's a great caller with a coyote

area so we'll get after them pretty soon oh no i i was joking it'd be fun to come out here maybe february and just bring a call and uh a gun and in february you can have thermals too so i just built that 22 arc and i've got a daytime scope on it right now making sure it's going to shoot the way i want it to and uh then it then it will have the thermal on it come then end of december so i'm ready for january one one it'll be fun well

Like I say, no exaggeration when this whitetail hunt has turned into one of my favorites. The group of guys we get to hang out with, the land we get to hunt, and just the camaraderie is awesome. We can't thank you guys enough. God willing, we'll draw again and be able to come back out next year.

Well, if we can get the right rain in the next couple of years, I'm excited about our young deer crop that I've seen. I sat on the stand last night and saw a beautiful 10-point, you know, that needs a couple of years. But I think Brock and I have got some great deer. Yeah.

and see what happens. So you guys come out. Really appreciate it, Andy and Brock. You guys take care and I'm sure you guys will fill your tags with some giants before this year's over. We'll send some pit. Thanks guys. Outdoor adventure won't wait for engine problems. Things like hard starts, rough performance and lost fuel economy are often caused by fuel gum and varnish buildup. Seafoam can help your engine run better and last longer. Simply pour a can in your gas tank.

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