Ep. 9: More On Calling Black Bears with Fred Eichler
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Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Today's guest may be best known for being the first to take all 29 North American big game animals with a recurve bow and complete the super slam, Fred Eichler. He's been fortunate enough to share his love and enthusiasm of the sport with fellow bow hunters across the country through his television shows and personal appearances. Today we hope to tap into his knowledge on predator calling, but more specifically, targeting bears. Welcome to the show, Fred. Hey, thanks so much, Jason. I appreciate it.

How's everything going? Absolutely great, man. It's a beautiful day here in Colorado and having a blast. Just got done doing some predator calling the other day down in Texas and Florida. So still rolling here, buddy. I don't know how to slow down.

Good deal. Good deal. Um, so I remember, and I don't want to date myself, but, um, I remember like growing up a little bit and watching a lot of your stuff on Easton Bowhunting TV and, and some of your stuff come through YouTube and, and while you were a very accomplished hunter and, and, uh, I loved watching that. I almost got this sense that, um, you're a little bit of a wild man when it came to bears and some of the stuff that I had, um, you know, seen you do, uh,

The one where you guys were in the raft, you guys came up on the three cubs and that sow was on you guys in seconds. Like that one is like burned into my, you know, I think there's a video of maybe you guys were at a lodge or at a camp and there's a black bear messing around in the garbage can and you go up and decide you want to give him a little pat on the back. You know, there's just...

like when I think of Fred Eichler, I think of like an, an amazing like recurve bow hunter. But I also think of like a guy that, and I don't want to say reckless, you know what you're doing. You're very skilled, but like the, the, the bears don't seem to bother you as much. But then, um, you, you've also got, you know, uh,

a ton of experience calling bears. And that's really why I wanted to talk to you, um, today, you know, there, I, there's a video of, of you on YouTube, you know, you call a bear and he walks down the log, you know, I think he's 15, 17 yards above you, you know, on a different hunt, you called in two different bears, um, you know, on, on a Rossi video that you were filming with your 45, 70. Um, so there's just, when I, when I think of, you know, Fred Eichler, uh, you know, it

Bears. I think of bears and calling bears for some reason. I know you're very accomplished and you probably don't want to be categorized by bears, but definitely why we brought you on here. Well, I'm honored. I appreciate it. When I think of you, I think of elk and calls, so that's totally fair. Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. So we'll get this started off. We've got a couple of questions, typical questions for black bear hunters. I'm going to probably pivot to you to answer. Okay.

So when you're calling bears, do you use any natural sounds with your calling? So like, you know, if, if something you're imitating, something dying, that predator instinct, you're trying to draw on that. Are you snapping sticks? Are you breaking brush? Are you just strictly calling? So I've done both. I've, I've broken branches. I've kicked, you know, around with my boot, uh,

A lot of it depends on the bear. I love it when you can see a bear and call. So I've called in bears blind calling, which I refer to blind calling as you're not looking at the bear. You're just literally set up in a very berry looking area. Maybe you got a lot of sign there and you're just hoping that you're in the right spot. The bear is close enough to hear you. That works great. I've had success doing that. I have more success if I can spot the bear first and

and gauge its reaction to my calling, to the other noises I'm making, like breaking sticks or kicking brush. You know, if I see that bear start to hesitate or as I'm really wailing on the call, does it come in faster if I'm slowing down or quieting it down or if I'm louder and more aggressive? So every bear, just like every person, has a totally different personality, as you know. And, you know, I've been fortunate to be, you know, have been around a lot of bears, polar bears, grizzly bears, brown bears, and a lot of black bears, not only

For myself hunting, but for clients as well. So everyone's different. I wish I could say it was cookie cutter and boy, this is going to work every time. But as you know, calling in a bunch of elk and all the different animals that you've called in and hunted, everyone is a little bit different. And I think bears are even...

even more so than that. You can take whitetails, and yeah, everyone's a little different, but for bears, it seems like there's such a wide variety based on their experiences. Is it a dominant bear? Is it a subordinate bear? Is it a boar? Is it a female? What time of year is it? Is it spring? Is it fall? A lot of variables come into play for that, but yes, and it's a long-winded answer to your question. Based on the bear, if I can see it,

I'll switch it up. If I have a bear starting to hesitate and, uh, I'm kicking and making a lot of brush noise, then I'll stop, slow down on that. Um, if I'm not making any noise and that bear has they sent, I'll try and make more realism and maybe I'll kick some branches and try and have some bushes moving around me, you know, at the same time. Gotcha. No, that, that makes a ton of sense. And, uh,

We all know bears. Here's the second question. We all know bears can't see the greatest, but they can see your make out movement. Do you use any visual attractant in any of your bear setups? Are you trying to be as still as possible? So great question. Sometimes I've even gone with black clothing because I want the bear to think maybe I'm another bear. A lot of times yellow bears get aggressive and they almost think it's a, you know, whether it's another bear, whether they think it's a cub. I've had boars run in that. I think we're like, man, this is a cub.

And I say that because I've had sows that had cubs charge in almost like they thought one of their cubs, you know, was possibly getting hurt, which is, you know, can be a little exciting. You know, I've had a few crazy, crazy experiences. You mentioned the one charge, you know, you couldn't have got a grease BB in my butt with a hammer, you know, at that time. And I've had a few times like that. I'm not really scared of black bears.

Um, you know, I've just been around them so much, but I'm very cognizant that, you know, they, they are big, strong bears. And, and, uh, but once you start, I don't know, I don't want to sound like that guy that got eaten in Alaska, but once you start messing with them, you start to feel a little more comfortable, but I'm also very cognizant that, you know, they're strong animals and it's their environment. And so, you know, I try to play each one a little bit differently.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Well, thank you. And if you out there want to submit your own questions and cutting in the distance, you can email us at CTD at Phelps game calls.com. And we'll take your guys's questions and, um, you know, answer them, answer it myself, or we'll, uh, we'll send it to the experts. So now we're going to get into the questions I have for you, Fred. Okay. Um, you know, and kind of my interest in, in calling bears, um,

And you may be different, but just the overall consensus is, you know, calling bears seems to almost be played with somewhat low odds. Now, you can kind of, you know, correct me or, you know, versus the typical spot and stalk. And it sounds like your answer to one of the earlier questions, maybe you do a little bit of both. You spot the bear.

And then you go in and try to call. So it's kind of that hybrid system. We do it a lot elk calling. We're not calling the elk to our location. We're going to find them, go get close, and then move them a very short distance if possible. It always ups your odds versus... So...

I mentioned we were talking before a little bit. I've set up probably thousands of times to call an elk, and that's a fall setting. The bears are pretty full by then, but I've only had six bears come in. What would you say, like in your typical setups, what your odds are for calling a bear in? You might want to...

you know, preface that with whether you've just spotted a bear, whether there was a bear in that area a day ago versus if you're completely cold calling in an area that seems to be Barry, you know, but what are your odds when you sit down the call? Great question. So I would say when I'm blind calling, um,

boy, it's probably one out of 20, to be honest. I mean, it's not something I would tell everybody, oh man, go out there and think you're going to do this every time. Even when you're in a pretty berry area, you know, it can be, you know, as low as one out of 20. But to me, one out of 20 is awesome. You know what I mean? If I make 10 calls in one day and nothing comes in, I make 10 calls the next day, in two days, I'm expecting a bear to come in, you know, and react to my call. So, you know, it doesn't sound great, but to me, I look at it like,

every single time I call and nothing comes in, I get even more excited because I'm like, what are the odds? Something's not going to come in this next time. You know, I'm one of those...

You know, I'm an optimist. So when it comes to that, but blind calling is by far the most difficult just because you don't know if you're, you know, even with an earshot, you may have a lot of sign, but are they coming in there at night? Are they coming in there? You know, is that sign five hours old? Is it, you know what I mean? You know, 12 hours old, where's the bear, you know, at that time. So now when it comes to seeing a bear and then calling it,

I mean, I'm going to up that up to like 20 percent, two out of 10, because you can have a lot better odds with bears when you can see them. And I think a lot of that's because I can gauge their reaction. So I do a lot of different things. You know, I'll look at the bear and a lot of times I won't call the bears, even though I think I I can, because it's either, you know, it might be a juvenile bear.

And I don't want to, you know, have it come in curious. And I'll play a juvenile bear a lot differently. I'll go real quiet. So I brought a couple calls, but, like, I may just gauge its reaction. And I don't want to blow you out here, but, you know, gauge its reaction really slow, like...

You know, and just start, you know, and I'll try and sound like something with a little longer breath or something with a little shorter breath. So like a deer, when it's squalling, you know what I mean, or something's killing it, it has bigger lungs, it makes a longer squall. You know, and then as opposed to like a rabbit or a smaller animal. Yeah.

they keep taking breaths really quickly. So I'll gauge based on the size of the bear, a lot of times how I'm going to call, but a lot of bears I don't call too. So if it's a juvenile bear, I'm going to go, eh, uh, if it's a sow with cubs, I try and leave that alone. Uh, you know, you know, have I ever messed with them a little bit just because it's exciting. And you know, when I've had guys around like, Hey, you want to see something crazy, you know, watch this.

But normally I'm just looking for, you know, your lone bears, your more mature bears. And that's what I'm setting up for. Just for the safety reason, and also so guys have a minute to look at that bear, I'll try and set up where I can watch...

watch a little country or get to where between me and the bear, I can see the bear approaching. Bears aren't going to hook a lot downwind. Usually, you know, the bears that I've called to, you know, they'll come more straight at you. They're not trying to hook wide and catch your wind. If you set up correctly, that bear is usually going to come into you. You know, they're not too worried about stuff. There are kind of a, you know, apex, you know, top tier predator, and they're not worried about something else eating them unless it's a grizzly or a brown bear. And if you're in country that has both,

but normally a black bear is going to come in. So I try and get to where I can see it. Now that could be advantageous and disadvantage as well. I had a client one time with a muzzleloader

And of course you've only got one shot and you know, you get a lot of smoke, you know, if you're shooting, uh, you know, the old, the old muzzleloaders, but I called it a bear from about 150 yards and it comes screaming in. And, and it was just one of those. It was the right time. It was the right bear. And this bear's coming. And the, I could tell the guy's just getting really nervous. I'm like, man, just stay calm. You know what I mean? Hopefully he'll come in close and he'll stop. Well, this bear gets about 80 yards away. It doesn't have a good shot. Stopped.

So I start pouring the coals to him. You know, I start really just, just, just wailing hard, just really, you know, kind of aggressive. And this bear just drops off the hill and he's coming as hard as a bear can come.

And I stopped calling and I start yelling, trying to stop the bear so the guy can get a good shot. And he's just, I mean, this bear is going to run us right over. You know, he's coming right ass. And I'm like, I start telling him, I'm like, shoot, shoot him, shoot. Well, the bear gets about 20 yards on a full run and he's coming right to me. Guy touches off this muzzleloader and smoke, you know, neither of us could see. And I kind of, you know how you cringe a little bit. I'm like, man, this is going to hurt because he's going to, you know, even if he doesn't eat us, he's going to, he's going to knock us over for sure.

And there's smoke everywhere. I can't see a thing, you know. And finally the smoke clears and this poor guy is gone. Then, you know, to be like, he scoots away. He's freaked out. He's in a little ball. You know, he's like, oh my gosh, he's going to kill us. Did you hit him? And he goes, I didn't even aim at him. He goes, I just pulled the trigger to get him to go.

Oh, that would have been so incredible. So, you know, again, long-winded answer your question, but yes, I'll, I'll, I'll change it up. I like to set up where I can see, um, I'll call, you know, I will call blind, but you know, like I said, one out of 20, maybe, whereas, whereas opposed to when I can see a bear, I can probably get two out of 10 to, to respond and actually come in, whether that's all the way to you or get some kind of response from where they're coming and closing the distance to a degree.

Yeah. Yeah. And then just to follow up question to something you said there for my, for my own curiosity, you, you mentioned like, based on the size of the bear, you will call different or maybe use like a, rather than a rabbit, use a fawn. So are you, are you using like a fawn call with a bigger bear or, or did I mishear that? No, no, no. Are you changing up based on that? Totally right. Yeah. So, you know, a smaller bear, just like, you know, smaller predators, a smaller bear,

Might even be a little activity if it's a really loud, super squall, you know, a larger animal. So if it's a really younger bear, a lot of times I'll go with a smaller or not as aggressive predator sound. But if it's a bigger, older, mature bear and I look at it and go, man, that thing's probably killed elk calves, moose calves, deer calves, everything. It's been around the block.

and hurt a lot of things die, I'm going to maybe play a little more aggressive, a longer lunged animal like a deer or an elk calf or something like that. And I'll even use diaphragms at times just to make that plaintive longer call to increase the odds of it coming in. Gotcha. OK, perfect, perfect.

So we, we talked about this on our last bear calling a podcast, but you know, for me, it's a struggle because bears don't necessarily call back. You know, everything else I call to L Turkey, I make a noise. They answer me back. I know I'm in the right spot. Like this is a spot I needed to be. So how do you find confidence in a spot like pre-scouting when you're going out, you know, the, the, the,

red trees you know scat all that like how do you know like is there an amount of scat is there enough sign like what's your what's your factors into knowing you're in a good spot to be um for calling bears great point um one you know a lot of times it's scat and i like a lot of fresh scat uh bears follow food sources um just like the elk and things like that but it seems like you'll have a lot of bears in one small area so in my area you know here in southern colorado um

I live at 7,000 feet. This is my house here where I'm living. And we'll have bears all over here and behind the house and on our ranch, as well as a lot of the places that we hunt. But I'm looking for oak brush. I'm looking for when acorns are dropping. And based on whether it's a south slope, a north slope, whether it's down in a canyon or not,

Oak brush and a lot of the oak trees will drop acorns at different times. It may be a couple days difference, it may be weeks difference. So I'm looking for the spot that's hot at that time. What's dropping? Where are all the bears? And if I'm seeing all kinds of fresh scat, then I know the bears are there.

I'm doing a lot of glassing. I'll get up high. I'll look with a spotting scope. I'm looking in dirt roads for tracks on top of my tracks, whether it's tire tracks, whether it's my boot tracks. So I'm looking for that tons of activity to get in there and increase my odds. In areas like that, I'll have more success when I'm blind calling. I don't actually have to see the bear if I know it looks like they're really feeding on the soapbrush and they're going to be laying up close.

Same thing, and it varies state to state legality-wise, but if bears are on a carcass,

A lot of times the more mature bears and everybody that has hunted bears over bait has watched them come in. And usually it's, you know, the subordinate, you know, the smaller bears or the, you know, the ones that aren't dominant slip in first earlier and they'll grab a little meat, you know, or whatever they're sitting on. And then the bigger bears will come and then right at dark, you know, the big ones come mumbling in there. Or if they know that there's a younger bear trying to steal their feed, they'll come running in earlier.

So a lot of times I'll set up close to those feed sources. Again, whether it's acorns, whether it's a dead carcass. Here in Colorado, you can legally hunt over the carcass of a legally killed animal or something that you've found. So let's say one of my clients harvests an elk. We take all the edible meat off it, you know, quarters, back straps, tenderloins, all that. And there's just a gut pile, maybe some ribs there. You know, I'll set up and call off that once the bears start hitting that. That's a great location to slip into and try and call something off of.

Gotcha. Perfect. Perfect. So you're going out on a bear hunt. You're going to call them in. So you expect them to be, you know, 50, 60, you know, maybe a hundred yards. Like what, what gun are you grabbing out of your, your gun safe, you know, before you take off to, if you're going to target bears and intend to call them in. So,

You know what? I tell guys, you can use any weapon you want. A lot of guys are into the longer range. Some people don't like bears up close. For me, calling a bear is about being up close. Like, I want them close. You know, one of the guys that I hunt with in Canada a lot, you know, Clint, he's got Kispiox Valley Outfitters, and he loves calling bears in. And we both look at it the same way. Like, I want the bear up close.

right on top of me you know to me I didn't really call that bear in or do a great job of calling him in unless he's under 30 yards I want the bear close you know so that's so I choose my weapon accordingly um when I'm also calling bears and I want something that has a lot of stopping power um so 45 70 to me there's something about the lever guns too you know I've got a you know I've got a Rossi 45 70 and I absolutely love it it's just you know and any of those you know I'm

Marlin, there's a bunch of people that have those levers in the larger calibers. But I've got a Rossi lever, 45, 70. And I'm running a heavy bullet through it, hollow point. And man, when they come up, Hornady's got quite a few different loads for it.

And I want something that when I shoot, it's going to drop the bear either in its tracks or it's going to knock that bear to where it's not going to go 20 yards and it's going to drop. Um, also just so you have the shorter barrel, I'm not trying to acquire a scope. Uh, I like the open sites, uh, red dots, not a bad idea either. Uh, but for me, I like open sites, uh, you know, the shorter levers cause it's quick. You can swing it quick. You can react quick. Um, you know, if I'm with a client, uh,

Or even if I'm hunting with another guide and we're both calling. I've tandem called with Clint up in Canada. We've had an absolute blast doing that. Because, man, I mean, when you've got two guys and calling differently, oh, it just seems like multiple. Just like elk calling when you have one guy cow calling here, another guy cow calling behind you. With bears, too, when we have two different guys running a little bit different sounds, everybody calls a little bit differently. Yeah.

man, it seems like bears just, you know, it increases the odds. So sometimes tandem calling works great too. But yeah, I'm going to tell you that a lever, short, heavy caliber, I like that because I like calling them in close. So, you know, I'll have a lot of bears that'll close that, you know, 100 yards. And that's neat. You can reach out there and, you know, shoot them with a scope. And that's all great too. But for me, if I going out and going, man, I'm going to try and call a bear. This is my goal. I want them in right on top of me.

Yeah. Do you, do you still pick up the recurve? If you're going to, if you're going to call as a bow, a good option, like just because there there's that chance that you're not going to get them to stop at 20 or 30. Right. Exactly. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I started laughing. Cause I'm like, yeah, I have my answer to this. So yeah, I was assuming, I was assuming the answer was that, but I just wanted to double check that you're not picking up your, your recurve or any bow when you're going to specifically calling. No, that's a great question. Now, have I done it?

Yes. Is it something I'm ever going to take a client on or is it something I would ever suggest people to do? No. And I say that because especially blind calling, I've had situations where we've had to shoot, you know, in front of a sow with cubs that was real aggressive. And not only do you stop calling and have to shoot in front of and back out of the area, but,

But man, with a bow, and I always carry a carry gun anyways, but just that reaction time. When a bear closes quick, and that's why I like to be able to see a little bit, but when you have a bear just come on top of you just like that, and sometimes they can do that. Yeah, a bow's not really, it's not the perfect thing to use when you're calling bears, whether it's grizzlies or browns or blacks. Hey, if somebody wants to do it, that's fine, but I've just said it's, I've seen some situations where I went, whoo!

I'm really glad I didn't have my recurve there. That could have turned a little south. So yeah, for me, that's more of a slip in and shoot it with the bows. But for calling them, I'm more of a probably better to have a gun with you.

Gotcha, gotcha. Now let's get into some of the fun stuff, the predator calls. There's a lot out there. You can go electronic caller or you can go mouth calls. You can go open read versus closed read. You can kind of walk through what you look at predator calls. I know you've...

partnered up with Western Rivers to make your own electronic call. So tell us a little bit about that. And then you've already demonstrated some mouth calls. So just kind of walk through your selection when you're going to call Bears

Um, you know, what, what calls you're looking at, what you're going to bring, you know, the legality of, you know, certain calls in certain States and kind of walk through that, that whole, uh, the whole conversation on the calls. Now, great question, Jason. And, and, and you know, probably better than, you know, anyone, cause you've called so much and, you know, your own line of calls and everything you've done. Um,

It's so important. Animals can get educated to a certain call, whether it's a turkey, whether it's a coyote, you know, almost any animal learns and can get educated if it has a bad experience. So one of the things I like is switching it up and whether that's a mouth call, electronic call, whatever.

I try and blow mouth calls differently if I'm hunting the same area or going to a place I've been before. And the same thing with electronic calls. I'll literally sometimes keep notes and go, okay, I hunted this area, whether it's a public land area or a private ranch, and I played this call, this call, and this call. So when I go there next time, I'm going to play totally different sounds. I'm mixing it up.

is huge. I've done predator seminars before. And one of the questions I'll ask, how many people here have gone predator hunting? And almost everybody raises their hand. That's why they're there at the seminar. And I'll say, how many people are happy with the success that they have predator hunting? And maybe a quarter of the hands will go up. And again, that's why they're there at a seminar. And I'll say, how many people play a dying rabbit call? And every single hand goes up.

I'm like, well, there's your problem. Everybody's playing that dying rabbit call because that's what it started with, you know? And those coyotes and fox, everything, they're getting educated to it. And I've gone to places where people have had zero success and said, man, I just, these coyotes are so smart. I just can't call them in. Or I don't understand it. Nobody's ever called. This is my favorite one. Nobody's ever called in this spot.

but I still can't call coyotes in. And I'm like, you understand that coyotes may range five miles, 10 miles. If your neighbor 10 miles away called, you know, six months or a year ago, then he educated the coyotes that you're seeing the tracks and scat for.

So I'll go in and mix it up and I'll play a calf ball. I'll play a fawn bleat. I'll play chickens. You know what I mean? For rurals, I'll play dogs, you know, squalling, I'll play Guinea fowl. You know, I'll play the totally random different sounds that people don't play. And a lot of people are nervous to do that. So, you know, when I worked with Western rivers, I was like, man,

I've used dang near every call on the market, and so has everybody else. And it's hard now to even find a call that something hasn't heard. So I want to pre-record or I want to record some of my own sounds. So we went out and got all kinds of different sounds that hadn't been heard before. And it was awesome. And that continually switching it up for the animals helps huge. But to your point about legality and things, I called in a mountain lion. I was telling you before this podcast,

And it was, oh, I don't know, about two months ago. And I was behind my house on the ranch and set up. And I had a guy from Arkansas with me, actually. And I set up my electronic call, my Western Rivers call, and started calling. And we got amazing video of a mountain lion. Just all of a sudden, it crept up to about 20 yards from the call. And then it runs up and literally is standing there.

right over my electronic call and my cameraman's getting it all on video. And I'm like, Oh, I got a mountain lion tag in my pocket. I can't shoot the lion because in Colorado and the area I'm hunting, you can't use an electronic call. Had I been using a mouth call,

It would have been awesome and I could have used it. So I tell people, check legalities, you know, in areas. But, you know, a lot of times you have to have both in your arsenal. Mouth calls, you know, as well as electronic calls, just so you can hunt not only more species, increase your success, but also cover the legal side of it. You know what I mean? Okay, I just saw a bear. I just saw a mountain lion.

All I have is an electronic call, I'm out of luck. So in areas where you can't use them. So being able to pull that mouth call out of your pocket or out of your pack and still be able to interact and play and get a chance at animals is huge. The biggest difference between

To me, when I tell people, and I'm old enough to where I started out with mouth calls because that's really all they had besides the old Johnny Stewart tape players. You put the speakers out. I was going to tell a funny story about you changing it up. I'm convinced the coyotes I hunted back in the old days, they knew you can start to sing along like you know the next song on the tape and the next sound. We played that same 30-minute tape. It's like these coyotes know the next sound that's coming and then the next sound. As well as you do. And they knew we'd walk that way.

Yeah, we'd walk down there, flip the tape, and hit the play button again, you know. And it's like they could have probably sung our tape. But yeah, changing it up, we didn't do much. You know, we'd open it up. We'd have two or three tapes, and they were going to get one of them. And we're going to play both sides. That's what I did all the time. So, you know, it's funny. But now there's such a myriad of, you know,

available to people. But I like the fact with the electronic call and a huge advantage to me is when I'm blowing a mouth call, like for bears, that bear's focused on me. You know, that mountain lion, that fox, that coyote, that badger, that, you know, whatever it is, it's focused on where that sound's coming from. So whether it's a bobcat sneaking in, looking for any movement,

it increases the odds of me getting busted because I'm moving my mouth or my head and then I've got to drop down and get my weapon. So, you know, or even if I've got it on a tripod or something, I've still got a lot more movement with a mouth call. And a lot of times that shot is quartering to you, coming to you, or if an animal's going to circle a little downwind, he's going to be behind me or, you know, off to the quarters and I'm not going to see that animal at all. The huge advantage to electronic calls

for the guys that take advantage of that distance is putting that call out 50 100 yards from you so now you can have the animal not focused on you focused on the call it's coming into where that you know noise is emanating from and i love decoys too because i think if you can fool their ears you know what i mean but also fool their eyes you're just increasing more and more and then if you can throw in some scent like sometimes i'll use conquest scent around my call if i can you know the more senses i can fool the more it increases my odds of getting that animal in close but

But you've got that call out there. The animal's coming in. It increases the odds of getting a better shot and an animal that's not going to spot you and focusing that animal on where you want it to go. So, you know, for the guys to take their time and learn how to set up correctly, you

It's really, you can't beat an electronic call. It's just, you know, with the Mirida, you know, with the push of a button, being able to play a lot of different sounds. One of the things I did with the Western Rivers call, Jason, is I put a 50% volume reduction button with one hit of the button. I found with some of the other calls I was using, if I had an animal trying to close the distance and a lot of people play the volume way too loud, that's another bad mistake a lot of people make. They don't realize how far animals can hear.

But I still wanted to turn the volume down a little bit fast. And I found I was hitting that volume button down, down, down, down, down, trying to do it. So I put a large button on the remote where, you know, no matter what I'm playing, if I hit the button once, it reduces the volume by 50%. If I hit the button again, it reduces it again by 50%. So if I have something out there that's holding up, you know, man, I can drop the volume, you know what I mean? And start to bring them in. Because realistically, when you've got something dying, you know,

It doesn't stay the same volume. It fluctuates high, low, and it trails out. You know what I mean? It's, you know, and all the coyotes. Yeah. Yeah. You know how that is. It's just, it's those little bitty things to me that make a huge difference.

Gotcha. And, you know, I grew up watching the, the, the Wayne Carlton videos, you know, calling bears and, you know, one thing that is always, you know, about bears is they can lose interest really quick, you know, during that call and you might get them to commit, but somewhere along the way, you know, they're chasing a squirrel or they're, you know, they just like, they, they, they lose interest. You know, what, do you have any tips or techniques, especially if you can't see the bear? I know you, you prefer to see him, but if you can't like,

are your guys's, are your sounds on the Western rivers or when you're running a mouth call, like, are you like try to limit the gaps or how do you do that to make sure that you don't kind of lose that bear's interest along the way? Since the places I hunt, you can't use an electronic call for bears. All my bear calling has been done with a mouth call. Um, and to try and keep a bear interested one, you know, again, to go back to it, when I can see the bear, I'm gauging the bear's reaction. Do I need to, if he starts to lose interest, you know,

you know, or starts to turn off or, you know, you can see, smell something that's going to go over there for a minute. I'm going to change my volume. I'm going to start kicking more brush. I'm going to do something to make it go, Ooh, wait, something just changed over there. So, you know, I'm constantly trying to do those little things to keep them, um, you know, from, from losing interest, like you say, because they do get distracted. The other thing is when I'm calling bears, I don't stop calling. I call nonstop. A lot of times,

guys calling coyotes or using a mouth call and I used to do it too but just because I needed to take a breath or my lips or my cheeks were sore you know you'd call for a minute take a break call for a minute take a break with bears I call non-stop I do not stop calling and again because like you say I think bears are a lot like I am you know squirrel you know go over here you know and totally totally just get off track so I try to not give them that break once I get them reacting at all I'm

I try and keep pouring it on so they'll keep reacting.

Gotcha. And then that call nonstop brings up the question, how long are you calling on a normal bear set? You know, I guess if you can see him, that changes the game because you're, you know, he's still interested or you can still keep going, but say it's, you know, non-visible bear or a somewhat cold setup. Like how long are you calling? How long are you waiting before you change spots? Yeah. If I'm blind calling, I'll just call five minutes or as long as, you know, tell my lips and, you know, my cheeks were out, you know what I mean? And I'll fluctuate from low to high. And yeah,

blind calling is a little more difficult for me because when I can see the bear, I'm more excited. I can...

I can go longer. Kind of like if you're competing with your buddy doing pushups, you could do more because you're watching him, you know, like, oh, I'm going to get more. It's the same way to me. If I'm watching a bear and he's reacting to the call, man, you know, all of a sudden I've got a little more energy. I can get some more lung power. I'm going to ignore my lips that are starting to get a little numb or my cheeks that are starting to get a little sore. And I'm going to keep going. Whereas if I'm blind calling, I even start to lose interest. You know, it's like, okay, you know, I've been calling for a few minutes here and

nothing's doesn't show enough, you know, I'm going to knock it off. So, you know, as opposed to if I was running electronic call, if it was legal where I'm at, I would play probably a lot longer, you know, 15 to 20 minutes, something like that. But, you know, when I'm, when I'm calling, I go as much as I can until, until I lose interest and go, eh, time to move.

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You've kind of alluded to this next question a little bit earlier on, um, based on the size of the barrier you want to call in, but you change your calls, um, like through spring, if you're in an area that has a spring season, like, will you start with, you know, fawns and calves as they drop? Or are you always going to stay, you know, are you going to stay away from rabbits since you don't want to call on the small bears, even though it will work on bigger ones? Like what's your approach, um, based on time of the year. And then also, um, you know,

you know, the bear that you're targeting or that you'd like to come into your calls, like what calls are your go-to and how do you kind of think about that? Right. And, and I'll switch it up, you know, and like you said, you know, if it's spring and there's, you know, animals on the ground, um, a lot of times, or, you know, it works in the fall too. I'll,

All bears are used to eating baby deer, baby elk, baby moose, depending on where they're at. So, you know, a lot of times I'll go to the diaphragm or I'll go to a, you know, a prayer call that I can make it a little bit more even toned instead of fluctuating so much to make it sound like, you know, a dying moose calf or a fawn or something like that.

But I have a lot of luck with that. But I've found big bears will react to the small stuff as well. So again, I prefer to spot them and look at them and then call to them.

And, you know, sometimes I'll totally change it. If I'm giving them a, you know, just a loud, you know, predator call, that's basically a improvised rabbit. You know, I'm just, it's a squall and I'm, I'm doing it and they're not reacting. Well, I may switch it up real quick and go to a diaphragm and, you know, or try and make it sound more like a fawn and see if that all of a sudden makes them go, Ooh, this sounds good. Or vice versa. Sometimes I'll start out with a bear, you know, I may see a big bear and go, man, I'm going to, I'm going to start calling that one and try and make it react better.

to a moose or a calf sound and see how it does. And if it doesn't, then I'll switch it up to just a long, squalling, just noisemaker that sounds like something dying. And again, a lot of that depends too. I've been up in the Yukon calling grizzlies

And that's a little scary proposition too. It's fun. But again, I try to look to where I can see a little bit and have a little bit of distance or whether I'm calling in wolves or whatever it is. And I've only called two wolves into the call, but it's still exciting. I've probably called in more than that that I didn't see, but I've called two in that I actually shot on video. So those were kind of neat. But when it's a grizzly and things like that,

anything that that bear is going to react to whether it's a you know fawn or you know almost and i say moose but you know like a calf of anything a fawn you know a calf that sounds right and it's reacting and i'm just going to keep hitting on that if it's not reacting and i can see it i'm going to go through i'm going to throw everything at it but the kitchen sink and see if i can hit the right sound that causes it to react you know and the other thing with this very similar sorry go ahead

No, I was going to say very similar to elk calling. Everybody thinks we have this perfect cookie cutter. You're going to do this and this. I relate it back to bass fishing. You show up to the bass spot and you're going to throw a plug. You're going to throw a buzz bait. You're going to throw a jig and just try to figure out what's catching fish in this area. Same thing for elk. Same thing it sounds like for bear. You're just going to throw everything at them and see what gets him to turn my way and commit. If I give him a little bit more

You know, is he going to continue on or is he going to lose interest? Then you try to find the next thing that's working. Right. And it's funny because just like that was a great analogy with the bass fishing. And I think I mentioned earlier that bears are just so across the board with their personalities, if you will, or, you know, their dominance or, you know, whether they're dominant or subordinate.

You know, I've I've run bears off that I thought this is a done deal You know sometimes when I close the distance too close, you know, if I see a bear at 300 yards, for example I may try and close to you know 150 yards, you know before trying to call it or 100 yards and then trying to call it so but I've got I've got video of slipping up where I thought man look at this giant bear He's gonna come running in and I know he probably has never heard a call but for some reason

I did something or I was too aggressive or it just wasn't worth the fight to him that day, whatever. But, you know, where they just went, no, I'm out of here and took off. So, you know, to your point, you're playing around, but that's what's fun about it. You're playing different things.

But what works with one bear or what scenario works with one or what sound works with one may not work at all for the next one. But I do want to say again that people have to be very cognizant because I have had some, I won't say negative because they're all exciting experiences.

But some reactions from sows with cubs where they will, they'll get pretty aggressive. And I don't know if they think it's one of their cubs that's, you know, that's getting hurt or they're, or it's a,

like a protective measure. But I've had them come in pretty hard to that, you know, as well. And, and again, like I said, I'm, I'm not scared of my mess with them all the time. I slap them on the butt when they come into the dumpster. You know, my, my wife was with me one time we were cow calling elk and you and me were talking about, that's where you've had a lot of your encounters is, you know, you're cow calling and that tells you how many, how many elk, you know, bears eat. But we had a black bear literally stalking us. And you know, my wife's like, what,

what are we going to do? I was like, I'm going to try and tree him. So I let him get really close and, you know, stupid, but you know, I took off running and barking like a dog at him as quick as I could. And because I was so close to him, it startled him and he jumped up a tree and, you know, I thought it was awesome. And she's like, you're just not quite all there. Are you? So,

yeah that was the other that's my other main encounter with black bears is them trying to get like meat out of the back of the truck or messing with we've you're running the bear up a tree story like you know trying to yank one of my um capes out of you know just finish up an elk hunt we're just going to keep the meat in the back of the truck for for one night you know until we can get off the mountain and you know it's either yanking the meat out of the truck yanking the heads and hides and capes and they're just uh

Yeah, I'm not as courageous around bears, though. I just feel like, for the most part, they are going to run. But if they decided to turn or decided to stand their ground, I'm probably going to lose that one real quickly. Oh, yeah. I've had a couple that pucker me up a little bit. Yep, yep. So you just mentioned calling Grizz or calling in Grizzly country.

Do you do anything different? You know, I would say the, you know, you can't hunt grizzly in the, in the lower 48, um, you know, where we do a lot of this black bear calling. Um, if you're calling in grizzly country, is there anything you would do differently? Or, you know, like you say, it can be a little bit different of an experience. So you're still trying to call black bear in, in grizzly country. Like, what are you changing from your normal setup? And how do you kind of just add a couple extra layers of safety to the, to the setup?

Oh yeah. And I'm going to tell you the same thing like I've done on Kodiak Island when I, you know what I mean? I've, I've, I've called for brown bears there trying to get a, you know, get a reaction or even when I was calling Fox, you know, I had a captain of a boat look at me and go, you're nuts, man. You're going to be out there on, you know, on that Island. You're calling red Fox in, but a brown bear may come running down your neck, you know, and don't get me wrong. It's a little bigger pucker factor, but I totally set up differently a hundred percent just for the safety factor. You know, a lot of times I'll either have a cameraman or, you know, somebody else with me and, and,

you know, I'm looking, where can I see everywhere? Well, you know, where can something not slip up on me to where they literally flip the tables on me and they've got the advantage. So, you know, I'll set up places where I can see. Then what's my next step? You know, almost, you know, literally I'll strategize. What's my step if something goes south? In other words, a sow with cubs comes running in and I can't stop her, you know, by yelling and shutting my mouth off. You know, at what point,

where's my safety zone? Where do I, you know, where am I going to shoot a round off in front of her to try and scare her or just shoot a round off? You know, where, where's my, where's my move after that? So yeah, I do totally change it up. Bear spray is another great, you know, great idea. Uh, I still prefer a weapon, uh, but bear spray is another great idea. Um, so yeah, when you're calling in areas where, uh,

where the bears are a little bigger and a little more serious. Same thing though with the black bears. You got to be cognizant of that as well. I try and set up where I've got a little bit of room to react or my buddy's got room to react or my client has room to react. Not like the story of the muscle-holder guy that freaked out and just cranked off around because he was scared to death. It would have been so neat, but...

Um, that's one of the ones that just still, I was like, man, you know, it's just such a neat one running off the hill and charging all the way in. But, um, so yeah, that is a great question. And, and yeah, just for the safety aspect of that, it's really a good idea for guys to have, uh, you know, a backup. What's my plan? You know, it's my handgun here next to me. Um, you know, where's my rifle? Do I have bear spray? Um, and, and what's my, I try to predetermine a distance, um,

that, you know, all right, I'm not comfortable. If it's a sow with cubs, before it gets so close that I'm going to force that sow to, you know, make her, she's going to have to come at me. You know, I want to try and get her turned around at a safe distance where she has tons of time to realize, oh, hey, this isn't what I thought it was. And, you know, I want to get out of here. So, you know, I try and set that because I've seen firsthand that,

You know, I've been charged by leopards. I've been charged by grizzly bears. I've been charged by black bears. So I've seen how quick they can come, how quickly things can go south. So I try and have that buffer.

Another great safety tip is to always put your camera in the dirt, the cameraman in the direction you expect those grizzlies to come from. 100% buffer and make sure they're portly. Yeah. You want to definitely have a, you know what I mean? Heavy set, you know, cameraman, I could not agree more. Is it,

Is there anything, Fred, that you feel is vital or extremely important to calling bears? We haven't touched on like, you know, set up like what you're looking for in your setup. You'd already mentioned, you know, you like to be able to see, you know, and see their approach and use that distance of the electronic call, which, you know, sometimes you can or can't use. Is there anything else, you know, if you're going out Black Bear calling, you know,

that you think is important to the success and the experience? The wind, of course. I didn't really talk about the wind, of course, but wind is huge. Because bears can't see great, I play shadows whenever I can. I'd much rather have the sun to my back when I can. I also tell guys not to get disappointed. In other words, when you're blind calling, like I said, I like to think I have a little experience in calling all kinds of different predators.

And, you know, even with what I know and reading sign, and if I'm in a great area, one out of 20, you know, that's not that great. A lot of people get disappointed really quick. So I tell people, man, if you want to do it, look at it as a challenge and keep going. It will work. You'll find the right bear. You'll hit the right call. Just go until it works because once it works, just like elk calling or anything else, you're going to be hopelessly addicted and you're going to be

Looking for that next bear that just comes running in and reacts to you. And it's so exciting because it's different. The mountain lion I called in the other day, that was awesome. It's just neat to call in different apex predators.

Wind is super important. A lot of guys don't think of where they walked in. You alluded to that earlier. You know, same with, you know, a lot of species. Guys think, oh, if I just walk through here, it's okay. But, you know, I walk where the animal's not going to cross where I walk when it's coming into a call. For black bears, orgras, these are, or anything else, I try and have a natural obstacle when I can. If I've got a creek or a river, you know,

you know, something that I can put big, a big boulder on my back, you know what I mean? Or back up against it. Something where something can't come behind me super quick. Or if it's circling around or coming in from behind me where I don't expect it, I can hear it coming across, you know what I mean? Water or coming through leaves. So I probably spend way more time picking the right setup than I do actually calling anything, whether that's a coyote, a bobcat, you know what I mean? You know, a bear. I'm spending as much time going...

Where do I need to be? What's the best position? Where's the sun? Where can I be in the shade? What can I do defensively if I need to? So I spend, honestly, for sure, every single setup, I spend more time picking the right place to set up than I do actually calling.

Gotcha. That makes a lot of sense. So I got to ask you a couple of questions that, you know, probably debatable, but I want your opinion on it. Eyesight, you know, if you're in the shade, you know, everybody knows that bears can't see great in your opinion. Like if you're out in the open versus in the shade, like when can a bear finally see you? You know, you see a lot of people approach, you know, if they're on the shore, you know, people will drop off the boat a couple hundred yards away and they don't

what seems to me as a deer and elk hunter, it's like, man, that's going to pick you off anytime. But like what, what distance do you feel like, all right, a bear is going to see you and you're going to spook it. So I think bears are a lot like us. This is just my opinion. You know, people always say, oh, they're blind. They're, you know, they can't see very well. I think bears see about as good as people do. So I look at it like,

a person and I can hide from a person really easy. You know, you can get in there and, you know, brushing and people spot movement more than they spot anything else. But if it's tucked back in the brush, so, you know, and I relate it to hogs, you know,

you know, everybody says, oh, hogs are blind. You go to an area in Texas that's been hunted hard by hogs and you watch how quick a hog will pick you up when you slip out into an open sendero or down a road. That thing will look up, see you, or just see that movement and it's out of there. So, you know, I like to think that bears can see a little better than a lot of people give them credit for, just some things I've seen. So, like I said, I don't totally...

disservice them by saying, I think they're blind. I just assume they could see like me and I'm doing everything I can to try and hide. And again, that can be full camo. That can be just not only camo, but taking advantage of the shadows, getting back in the bushes. If it's bright out and you're looking into the bushes, how often are you kind of squinting or you're looking? It's like, what is that? Did I see something?

Since a bear's coming into something dying, I don't mind them seeing some movement. I really think it's great. That's natural. I don't mind them hearing brush going. So I don't mind them seeing some movement.

I just don't want them to silhouette me. You know, I don't want like, you know, the, the background of my window here, you know, at my house, I don't want them to, to, to catch me, you know, moving in an open silhouette situation like this. I'd rather have it to where they can see something in the brush, like, Ooh, something may be flipping around on the ground there. You know, there's something, something is getting eaten over there. Um, yeah, but yeah, I, I assume that they can see about like people. Cause I've just seen too many circumstances where, you know, uh,

But bears just aren't scared. They're not, you know, again, it's the difference between, you know, a carnivore and, you know, even though bears are omnivores and they eat everything, you know, and a prey species. So a predator versus, I guess I should say a predator species versus a, you know, a prey species. When you're a deer or other animals, you're spooked out all the time. And the majority of the states with black bears

they're kind of right up there. There's not something that's going to sneak up and jump on the back of a black bear very often. So they're just not nervous. I think a lot of people take that as a man. They can't really see, or they're not really paying attention. I think they're just walking around like what's going to mess with me unless it's another bear. Yeah. Gotcha. Just my opinion. Very similar. No, no, that makes a ton of sense. And so,

We're going to go on to smell just a little bit in your opinion on that. Um, you know, Clay Newcomb and, and Ronella were hunting on one episode and they're convinced that the bear winded them at like 800 yards. Um, you know, and now they say, you know, it was, it was six or seven of the guys, you know, camera guys, producers, everything that's, that's on a set. But in your opinion, if you had to make a loop around a bear and the bear was downwind of you, like what would be your like safety distance that like, I can move it 400 yards, 500 yards, but you have to go a thousand yards. Like,

How far away, let's say five mile an hour crosswind, let's put some parameters on it. Fairly steady, you're not dealing with mountain thermals, but where would a bear be able to pick you up scent-wise? Man, I got to go with Clay and Ronella on this one. It's ridiculously long ways. I mean, half a mile, three quarters of a mile, and I'd still hope that the thermals were bringing it over them. Bears could smell a root everywhere.

You know, they can smell a carcass from a ridiculous long ways away. They can figure out which acorns are dropping where and head to them. You know, they can smell where a sow walked days before and pick up that scent and trail it up. So, you know, they're...

their ability to smell danger or smell a person is exceptional. And I would put it on par, if not even better, to a deer or anything else. It's amazing to watch what a bear can smell. And like I said, even the roots and things they go after and digging them up in the ground, they've got an excellent sense of smell. And yeah, it doesn't surprise me at all. 800

800 yards, no, especially if that wind was going right at the bear, no problem at all. If they didn't get lucky and get thermals carrying the wind up over him or past him somehow, yeah, I'd say that wouldn't surprise me a bit. So as far as I can circle, sometimes I just gamble and go, man, I hope this half mile or three quarter mile circle is enough. But as far as I can or am willing to and hope for the best.

Gotcha. That makes, makes a ton of sense. Like I say, my, some of my latest bearing counters have been them trying to get stuff out of the back of my truck on a hunt. And it's like, you know, where they, yeah, they're not scared yards away, but yeah. Or did they, they'd be pulled this thing in from a mile or two, you know, just them being able to smell the meat and, and,

and whatnot. So yeah, I, I, they got a great, great, uh, sense of smell. And as you alluded to, like whatever you think is far enough, go farther or make sure you go, you know, downwind of the bear and not risk it at all. It is amazing. The difference in bears though. And you just brought that up. I mean, you know, you'll have one bear that'll run from, you know, human scent from, um,

half a mile, three quarters of a mile, just because of the experiences that bear's had with people maybe, or whatever that is. And then the next bear will come towards you, like even a black bear, like, hmm, I'm going to go check that out. What's that smell? Or I wonder if they have something to eat.

You know, or, you know, there's a guy in town here in Trinidad that's a, you know, that's a trapper and been around, you know, this country and bears his whole life. And he was literally walking through the woods and he said he looked up, saw a bear a few hundred yards away and looked back and the bear was just charging him. No reason. You know, he wasn't messing with the bear. It wasn't a sow with cubs. And he was like, Fred,

It was the craziest thing I've ever seen. Like it charged me and, you know, I've had guides get charged and things like that. Mostly sows with cubs, you know, and bluff charges or they come right up to them. But yeah, it's, it's bizarre how one bear will react one way and another one will react totally differently based on their experiences or their fear or their age or their dominance, you know, and I'm sure you've seen that with, with baits. I've seen that when I was baiting bears, you know, you could walk into a bait and, you know,

One bear just take off scared to death as soon as he saw you or heard you or smelled you. And the next one, it won't leave. It's like, nope, this is mine. I'm going to protect it. And it's been the same with carcasses. I've had bears not leave elk carcasses or deer carcasses, whereas other ones, they just see you through the trees and they take off. Next bear's like, no, this is my carcass and you need to go. So kind of neat. ♪

So I'm going to give my, my one tip, at least for what I've learned through bear hunting. And then we're going to ask you for your, your one tip for, you know, your, your something that could change the change, the outcome for somebody that's maybe not been successful. And for me, a lot of it comes back to, um, you know, and it won't necessarily be a bear calling, but it's more, um, being patient. Like I don't have a whole lot of patients. I'm the most

you know, most aggressive elk caller. Um, if, if something doesn't happen, I'm going to move and make it work. But for me, like bear hunting, I just had to become a little more patient. It just, I wasn't going to be successful, you know, whether it's, it's glassing, spotting, stalking, even calling, you know, it's a lot of our coyote sets. Um, you know, we would have a, a, a coyote five, 10 minutes of turning the call and they'd be there, but bear, it's like, all right, we need 20, 30, 40, you know, and then maybe wait a little bit longer. Um,

Um, and so for me, it was just learning patience, spending more time behind the glass, um, you know, and then looking at layers, you know, a lot of people, when I look for deer and elk, it's like, I'm looking for something, uh,

you know, very, very obvious, very, and then I can spend more time looking in different areas where bear, if they're, if you're not able to see them and some people say, you know, you should just keep moving until you find bear. But, um, we're looking at the second or third layer deep because a lot of times those bear, at least around my area, they get hung up on a food source and they might not leave it for 25, 30 minutes. And if you don't, you know, that could be your whole glassing session. If you can't find that bear, you know, you know,

Pulling down a huckleberry bush or whatever it is. You're just not going to be very successful So my my one tip would be you know be a little more patient stay a little bit longer glass a little bit longer call a little bit longer and You're gonna find a little more success black bear hunting. But um, what would your your one tip be Fred man? You know for the one tip again like you I kind of mirror the whole don't get disappointed You know, it doesn't happen every time

Um, I like to increase my odds. You know, my probably favorite time is in the fall, uh, because bears are feeding, you know, before they go into hibernation, you know, 20 hours a day. So the bears are out more, um, they're covering more country. They're trying to really load up on, on food before they go to the, you know, hibernation. So, um,

they'll be eating a lot more. Now they may stay closer to where they're going to den, but they're going to be out a lot more. So I tell guys, man, the fall's a great time, but don't get discouraged. Just keep going and learn to read sign. So you increase your odds of spotting that bear to try and call it or blind call and have one come in.

Well, thank you very much, Fred, for all of your bear calling experience, you know, your tips and tactics. We really appreciate having you on here. And Fred, let all the listeners know how they can get a hold of you, where they can find you, where they can follow you and see some of these, you know, bear calling videos and experiences.

Well, thanks. I've got a YouTube page, Fred Eichler YouTube. They can go to Fred Eichler fan page. I've got an Instagram, Facebook, and all that good stuff. And then go on there and see some of the things that we've actually been talking about today. All right, everybody, go check out Fred. If you don't know who he is, I'm sure you do. But a wealth of knowledge on everything big game. But he's got this Predator thing dialed. So we appreciate having him on today. Well, thank you, Jason. It's great talking to you. I enjoyed it. And good luck calling in this fall as well. All right. Thanks, guys.

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