139: D3f4ult
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Was this after you went to prison?

Um what was after when I went to prison?

Yeah, you have had a million dollars and ripen to.

uh, no, that was before. But well.

I want to get IT. I wanna .

get in to all that. Yeah.

it's honea lot. Okay, well, this is good. I'm glad that your story is a stranger.

Well, it's may move very long and strange. And honestly, for me, I lived IT and what IT so many times that is so Normalized yeah that i'm just like, yeah, I did this and I I would defeat prison for five years to like holy shit and like, yeah I know it's crazy, right okay it's .

um a cover yeah I decided to do that. I want you .

want to start all the way like you didn't give me like any kind of reference for how you wanted to go about this.

So I just want to get a verbal confirmation for, um, I know a legal reasons, whatever is okay to record this call to use on the podcast that dies.

I OK with you. Yeah, of course.

These are true stories from the dark side of the internet. I am jack ryder. This is dark net dies.

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Explicit content warning this episode has some languages in IT that might not be suitable for all audiences. Okay, hi, welcome to the show. I want you to beat a fellow name just well, let's just call him default.

As a teenager I was in report news for genia with um my dad. He were for the government. So so as your .

teenager or what was your relationship with the government where you are politically active, active with your dad? Politically active?

No, no, what so ever. I I didn't pay attention to that kind of stuff. I was Younger. I was just a, just a nerd, you know, like to play video games, was very active in sports, uh very active for its actually used to play like four soccer teams year around and was big into like competitive video games like you know halo call duty, even like super smash grows eventually. If you're into gaming, you stumble down the rabbit hole of like finding hacks to, you know, increase your experience in the game, whether it's like modern or jay tagging or whatever IT may be.

So as a team, he was playing room escape. And one day he got an argument with someone in the game who threatened to have him, and suddenly his computer went to a blue screen. And when IT bowed up after that, that would got him interested in hacking.

Since as far back as I can remember, i've always had a very inquisitive mindset, like extremely, I always question to everything and not just question everything. Like, I wanted to know how things work. I'm like, why does this happen? How does this happen?

This LED him to understand that you can get computers to do things that you shouldn't be allowed to do. He got curious. I wanted to learn more about how they work.

Then one day, his mom grounded him, banned from the internet for a week. Well, curious little default. Try to crack his neighbor's wifi. And sure enough, was able to do IT any. Got back .

online that was like IT over my eyes to the possibilities that I am not even aware of. I'm like, I want to know more about this. Like my mom just took away my internet. I just download this program, hacked my neighbors wifi and on back online within like ten minutes and to me that was like, so powerful like I took the power back from my, my parents or whatever. And so I started delvin deep into this stuff.

An ultimate search about hacking might have LED you to a message board, and the message board would have enter duced you to hacker tools. And those tools might be made by certain group of people, and those groups would be present on by R, C, A, A chat room. Getting in the chat room might not be so easy though.

IT might be invite only to get a message, the channel Operators to ask permission to join. But i'll deny you because they don't know you. But you notice the person who denied you to get in is also in another chat room.

So you join that one to see what's going on there, and you eventually find your way into some hacker chat rooms. Now the year was two thousand and eight, and being on rc and in hacker chat rooms in two thousand eight was a very, very special time and place to be. Those who were there will never forget those years.

In fact, the whole world will never forget what happened then. This was the heyday of anonymous. And default found his way right into the heart of IT.

Like even when I look back now at, you know, could go, anonymous is still crying. But I still feel like I was necessary. IT was like a necessary stepping stone in the hacking collective conclave, whatever, to get to where we're at today IT.

IT was necessary. IT was people congregating for similar body systems and standing up for something. I had its place in time.

Anonymous chat room was a hot mess, the biggest disaster of a chat room you've ever seen. Whatever you can imagine is the most awful picture ever. Double that and then spit to the chat room.

That's what was going on there. Gore, brutality, pornography, vile and disgusting image. IT was kind of a hazing experience that you had to get through in order to find your way deeper into anonymous. Sometimes new people will be asked to eat a stick of butter or a tube of toothpaste on camera to prove yourself.

Because here's the thing, cops, fs, journalists, security researchers and Normally would show up in these chat rooms and if they pop in to see what's going on and it's just full of gory imaging, a lot of them can't handle IT. They might vomit even and then just nope, right out there. Spamming the most graphic and awful pictures was like a firewall of some kind. But if you could tolerate IT building called is on your eyes and start talking with people through the noise, you might be welcomed deeper into the pockets of anonymous.

IT was a dolge sort. Yeah, we're all anonymous, but so was the you know the feds that are inflated IT that you don't know about. So that's why all of the really elite ite programmer and hackers like spd off into their own little small groups where they can like vet the members and make sure that they're not you know like fed, like oh well, go hack this website and like basically commit a crime to prove to me that you're not a fed or as anonymous as you like. You don't know who's in here.

This made the edges of anonymous even more fuzzy. New groups were forming out of IT, and they had their own ideas and agendas, and they would look back at the anonymous chat rooms and think those cats are cringe. We don't want to be affiliated with that stupid stuff where our own group and I R C hacking groups would come out of anonymous.

Some were loosely affiliated, some were even anti anonymous themselves. There was infighting to ducks ing people from other anonymous groups and other hacking groups. IT was a real mess.

Some other groups that were springing up in that time coming out of anonymous for like low seg team, poison, organic H T. P. And some people in these groups were getting arrested and then working with the feds to catch other hackers.

Things weren't safe. You always had to be looking over your shoulders in these chat rooms. You just didn't know who to trust them.

There became very obvious, like we need to move more underground and be a lot more selective with the individuals that were interacting with on a daily basis. So I moved on to basically my doing stuff myself and kind of becoming associates with other hacking groups, started learning from team poison like melt. Actually new trick too. I don't know if you're aware who trick was.

yeah. In fact, I do know who trick was as very well. I did a whole episode about him called team poison at episode one or nine, but the scene was so hard to navigate to know who to trust.

IT almost became a thing that if you were hacking in the stuff, breaking laws, then you were trusted. You must not be afraid. If you're able to break the law, everyone else keeps them at arms.

Like now, the thing is, at this little time in place in the world, hacks were happening everywhere you looked, some from anonymous, some from anonymous ginst, some from crews that we are entire, anonymous. But what was their motivation? Some were politically motivated.

Some wanted to get revenge. Some wanted to amplify a cause or an idea. And if you to face a big website, and right, with big letters on the front page, something about your cause, IT brings more awareness to IT default was hacking in the stuff too. But what was his motivation?

So I didn't really develop any kind of like altruistic c ideology for a little while, was more just all curiosity based in learning. I was obsessed learning more and more as much as I could because I thought IT was so intriguing. You know, if I could shall this website, then, if I can root IT and then if I can like, you know get access to all the other sub domains. And um IT was really just a bunch of chAllenges. So I always was just pushing myself to learn new things.

Okay, I see he's interested in learning and his crime is curiosity. IT reminds you of that seen from the movie hackers, which came out in nineteen ninety five. Listen, this is our world now, the world of the electron and the switch, the beauty of the board.

We exist without nationality, skin color or religious bias. You wage wars murder sheet later was, and try to make believe it's for your own good yet where the criminals? Yes, I am a criminal.

My crime is that of curiosity. I am a hacker. And this is my manifesto, a right manifesto. E.

you may stop me, but you can't stop us all. I even though that's .

a scene from the ninety's movie hackers. That manifesto was actually written in one thousand and eighty six, a full twenty years before anonymous would start making a name for itself. Yet IT feels like that absolutely something anonymous would say.

So I joined into a group called anon ghost, which there was some really confident people in there, but like, as time progressed, their leaders who would started to becoming radicalize members supporting ISIS. So I had to diverge away from them. And then I joined a group called anon sec, which people I hate of the name and wanted to change IT, because I got associated with anonymous so much. And I had like a disdained for anonymous at that time, like heavily, because that's not where the most technologically advanced takers were at, like none of them are in anonymous. And that .

really bothered .

me that some of our hacks got attributed to. I eventually ended up take taking over the group, but that's I think that's where I started to get more politically motivated than we did a whole bunch of different Operations like I think one of our first one was Operation detroit, where they were having. It's like really similar to the flint mickie issue with the water. But IT had more to do with the corruption and the government there and the fact that they have a really up system for how .

their waters distributed. okay. So this was a big deal deep fault in the crew. He was wanted to take out detroit water payment system.

Someone in the channel suggested they hit the site with loic, the low orbit ion cannon. This is a basic tool. You just point and shoot IT, but IT floods as a target IP with loads of traffic overwhelming.

Its so IT can't handle legitimate customers. Sometimes it'll even drop dead from the flood of connections but then someone else is like not screw look like that in lame and IT isn't safe. Let's use tors hammer and so someone started passing tours hammer around the chat.

And this also floods the target with a whole bunch of traffic. But he uses tour to rod all the traffic through IT, hiding where the attack is coming from. So the members all fired this up and together launched an attack on detroit water payment system. And immediately IT went offline. No one could pay their water bell.

So was like our first segway until, like, politically motivated itself, because, you know, IT pissed me off. And IT was like, I can, we can actually do something about this is like, okay, well, now know what is going to pet you so you're not in any payments. So what are you going to do now? And honestly, we kept the that part of their web server down for like I think, two months. So not really sure the equivalent of financial cost they had for that, but IT was significant enough for them to make announcements and changes and launch investigations into who is doing this. And actually, one of the members of our group got arrested for this.

There's something empowering about pulling off something like this. You feel like the world bends to you and your wms. There is a shift in control and that control can become IT was just kind .

of like us sitting around in our r sea chapter rooms and being like, well, what pieces you off or what do you hate and remember somebody being like, I can't stand pedophiles. I think they're like this gum of the years and I was like, yeah, I think I think everyone could agree with that. I think everyone can get on born with this.

Pedophiles have been sort of hated univerSally within anonymous in these chat rooms where anything was allowed in free speech rules. Pedophilia was not allowed, which i've always been fascinated by, that that's the common denominator that everyone agreed on. IT didn't matter what group you were in or political affiliation ation or a cause that was important to you.

Phoenicia was wrong to everyone. Would you might think? Yeah, duh. Of course, that wrong. Draw that line.

But why there? Why not ban pictures of murdered people, or pictures of people having sex with animals, or pictures of torture? All that was approved, held. There was a video of two girls eating pool, which was a real big hit in these channels, like nothing you could possibly present to this crowd, shock them or made them care, except hadopi a was going too far.

So imagine if you are being a teenager, having these hacking skills, looking around for something to use IT on, and saying that everyone hated pedophiles, all the hackers and all the channels, the cops, even the Normally, there was even A T V show called catcher predator, where theyd set up sting Operations for pedophiles. IT felt like if this is who you wanted to try to hack into or mess with, the universe was on your side. IT felt like what you were doing was right in every way.

IT was helping the world, and nobody would say you're on yet. At the same time, hacking feels so counterculture and rebellious. This is a powerful cocktail to be mixed up as a teenager.

You can go into the forms where they don't like post and they just is all text and know you find out where the messaging people, whether it's unlike, I don't know, like A O L or whatever IT may be.

And then you get their handles and then you go create all accounts and then interact with them, kind of like set them up basically and then you send him a file like, hey, oh, I would love to hang out ya ya, I get narrow excited and then I here's a picture of me, or here's a video of me, and you put some mower in IT and, you know, could be very simply lisc just, I just need poor, I just need a bad connection into this guy's computer. And then just download everything that he has and get all of his location data, and pretty much dogs, the guy, and then just send IT to his local authority ties. And we would check up on these people, and a lot of them would get arrested. And if vote good, you know, like you making a change in the world and making the world Better place, like, you know, people praying on shoulder is just like this, is one of the worst thick things that somebody can ever do.

Getting pedophiles arrested meant getting respect among the hacker groups, which meant getting more members. Things were progressing for them, and their hugs got bigger.

This is I this is one of the ones that I think i'm the most proud of, I could say, was Operation denmark. So bcl was not banned in denmark, okay? That's generally banned everywhere.

So I guess a lot of sick OS were taking advantage of this lack of, you know, laws against speciality there. There was literally dense. And by private places, you can go.

And people is like animals are going missing, and they are ending up in these like they called them dog browsers. So sick, it's so crazy. And I had a dog. So that really pissed me off.

Just thinking about the fact to like, what if we know being kind to be objective and be like, what if someone took my dog and that happened to my dog, I would freak out. So we I think we took down the official denmark government website, and then we actually to face IT, you know, and said, did you know that your government S. B C ality.

And there's B C ality dense where people can go and pay money to do these things to animals. And most of them are like people's pets. And a lot of people weren't even aware, like the average person was not aware of that because they're just going about their lives. So I everyone freaked ed out and I was like all over the news.

Cheese may you got in fact in the weird is of and is effective okay. So um he's right. Two thousand and four team IT was legal in denmark to have sex with animals and there was some weird das animal sex tourists going on over there because like a year earlier, sweden and germany band sexed animals.

IT was like a weird moment where some places that was illegal in some m IT wasn't. And yeah, shortly after this hack landmark changed the law. They made sex with animals illegal. And I can't tell if this hack had anything to do with the law is changing, but the timing is very coincidental. And stuff like this, hacking into places, making the news and getting people arrested and stuff like a drug, yes.

the sleep schedule didn't exist. And that is I would be lying if I didn't say IT was accelerating and like gave your sense of power and you know you start to crave that that rush of saton and is just like, you know, you you get so worked up and you you're like, this is so awesome. This feels great.

You know, not only are we doing something good, but it's exciting. And I want to do IT again and again. And sometimes like like almost like your chase in a high and that can like lead you off the trail.

Let's take a quick ad break, but stay with us because when we come back, we will go on off the trail. This episode is brought you by for onus. So many security incidents are caused by attackers finding and exploiting excessive permissions.

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So default was on a path. He didn't know where the path was taken him, but he already made his way through anonyme in a different hacker groups. A non sec was the group with this first exciting stuff was happening.

He kind of took over that group, but he realizes a whole infrastructure to the hacker groups. There's like data doors to keep records of like the stuff you collected or the password you've cracked. And there's a tool shop to quickly grab the hacking tools and how to use them.

But to build on that infrastructure, they decided they needed to build a Better net. Bota is just having control of a bunch of computers. You typically try to infect a huge lot of ips and hope that a bunch of computers get infected and become under your control.

But the reason why they wanted a partner was to round their attacks through IT. Instead of malicious traffic or connections coming from the union second members themselves, they set up as potent t to pipe their traffic through someone else's is computer to get to their targets. But when you infect a bunch of computers with a botnet, start to get curious, what are these computers that are in our control now? So all these different .

devices that are part of the boat, you know, just like going through and like seeing where the red or you know what they have access to, and some of the stuff that randomly ly I would just get pop would be like an apple T V um an iranian y max base station for like cell phones.

One of these servers belong to the windsor university. This is a medical school.

And you know, you just pulled up and I started looking, and like all this is some kind of institution, 一 轮式 的。 So pull up D, R, L, check the domain, score the home page, and, you know, can easily access that panel. And once I log in, just pull up the finances of all the people in all the debt they have.

I saw a screen shot of this. He was in the admin panel of the university, and there in front of him, was a list of all the students who owed money to the school. And IT all added up to nine million dollars. And he started to think, could I should I mess with this?

These people might you know really enjoy having their slate wiped clean as IT were. Um if you look some of them oh substantial of mind, you know like seventy thousand, think some people old like upwards of like over one hundred thousand. It's a lot of money, you know and it's like perpetual debt that sometimes it's just last for decades.

There were three hundred and ninety one students listed here. He scrolled to the bottom of the page and there was a button delete all. Why was there a deal of a button? I have no idea, but there was .

so um just the lead everything I want to the P H P shell and just like send everything to them know and just like strad IT, so whatever I sent, there's just not coming back.

Wow, crazy. How do you feel after that?

I you feel good, you know um whenever you can make a positive impact in people's lives and the power of doing that remotely from like your house is just like it's like almost intangible, like the amount of power you can exert over the internet. It's something that your average person just will never understand.

Defauts kept going further down this path, kidding into place after place, and the place as he was hidden, starting to really add up.

I mean, literally anything from banks because that apple tvs we landed inside the netherland defense gateway like what you're you'll have the default s set password said like you just haven't done anything with. Okay, cool. More schools, schools, computer and intelligent systems um house providers.

That was really cool. I was on esty like a gold mine. Because we could really just like keep spending up virtual private servers.

And now we need just like free web hosting, free storage space, stumbled across a weird N. S. A skynet program on a serious aventure server by and like also like was closed with the U.

S. Air force super weird stuff, who are sitting on a add logging panel for a coin base which shed access to hot wallets. Very scary stuff. Thankfully, we, in doing anything with that, a twitter in facebook year days, IT was both just like a four digit pin reset.

Now, each of these have their own story. And i've listened to him tell me with some of these himself, and they're insane. And i'm sorry, I can include the money here, but I do want to stop at the facebook log and exploit he had.

I became kind of obsessed with like having the tide's object that I could have because I didn't never want want to get caught, obviously. And that kind of lead to my arrogance also of being able to, literally, I got to the point where I I thought i'd never be caught no matter what I did. And that just opened the door for doing anything like hacking wise, like I didn't care if IT was like facebook or twitter, which we had a zero day on and could access anyone's account.

What they did was get a facebook user name and then tried to log in as them, but then say, oh, I forgot my password. And at the time, facebook would then send you a four digit code to your email that you had to type into the site to prove that was really you.

Because, after all, if you had control of the email that was registered to this user, IT must really be you, right? Well, IT was a four digit code, which means there's about ten thousand possibilities of what IT could be. And these guys learn that they could just keep submit codes to facebook over and over and over, cycling through all the possible for the codes until they found the one that worked. And they could do this pretty quickly too, and just reset anyone's password way and a log in the facebook as them.

I mean, we got a big account like I got into set rogan account, god is um his cell phone number and called him just to tell that like, I love his movies and he was like, who is this? I was like, i'm just a big fan like your hilarious he was like, click completely deactivated his cell phone like ten minutes later, uh cardy b before SHE like really blew up chief kef, which he was like gonna really cool about because we gave him the account back, like we gave all these people the accounts back, that we had no malicious and ten IT was just fun. IT was like a chAllenge.

So while all this started out as fun and a chAllenge over time IT morning, I mean, how can one feel this kind of power? And I watched the news and see everything wrong in the world and decide not to use this power to make change. I mean, IT really is like a super power to just top up over a computer or get inside a system that isn't yours. With great power comes great responsibility, right?

I think IT was the snowden released that just like kind of accept me off and where he was talking about, uh, the prison program and how literally it's it's not a conspiracy y that people have been like saying the government is spying on everyone. They are like, oh, you can like, nope. Actually you can see here to these very classified documents that they are literally regnant every single packet in united states, and they've go opted.

All of these companies do the prison program, and all your data are. And we're building a giant storage facility to keep all this forever. So if you ever become a potential threat to us, will know everything about you.

So IT really just sit us off. And kinder just gave us this mentality like, okay, so basically your hack in all of us. So we're going to start targeting you all and start showing that we can do to doing to us also, and that nobody y's immutable table. And we drove that point home very hard, like literally SAT around and came up with list of high level individuals in the intelligence community and then just started targeting them one .

by one help. They made a list of people to hack into you that were high profile members of the intelligence community. This just went up to eleven. I okay, at this point, I I mean, i'm fascinated by this because I am always surprised.

Our high profile people in government pretty much dog themselves, right, to give their real name and talk on T, V, and they have a phone number to their office, email, dress, physical address. All this stuff is public information. We know who their chances are.

There's a wikipedia article on them listing all this, or there might even be a whole biography written about them. And yeah, I have always wondered, doesn't that make them extremely vulnerable targets for attacks? Ah i'm so good to story right now.

Okay, let's back up a second. At this point, default has left a non sec which didn't affiliate itself with anonymous at all and in fact, they were anti anonymous. But anonyme seemed to get credit for everything they did since he was called a non sec.

So he was sick of that and left. But he knew people in this little pocket of internet and a group that he thought was doing some school shit was cw A. I stood for crackers with attitude and the head of C. W. A was a guy named .

cry talking to, and just like we're on the same page being really sed off about the government and also a lot of the things going on like the middle ast, just a lot of injustice in the world of kind of just like pissed off, you know, I wanted to like direct that somewhere far like a greater good as IT were.

So we started hanging out with these folks from C. W. A. And joins in on their .

activities, been exposing the lack of security within our own government. We are very vulnerable, and the people running the show are not practice in proper Operational security whatsoever either. So we're going to show the world this.

And I was actually really easy, like IT was not super advanced. Most of IT was just social engineering. And then taking that initial social engineering information we gathered and pivoting and leveraging that information.

who is when as the first one you targeted .

is James clapper? yeah. James capper was numerous UNO, and he is the director of national intelligence.

What this would be a strong though, for me, I would be out. You can attack the head of us. Intelligence agency like this and expect everything to be okay.

I mean, I don't care how good your offset is. Hide behind five VP s use your neighbor's wifi. I use to move to an underground bunker IT doesn't matter if you make IT personal, it'll make a personal, they will find you.

But at the same time, the fault was sing stupid stuff on the news. Listen, this is James capper. What we do not do is spy on wolly on americans, or for that matter, spy and discrimination on the citizens of any country. We only spy for valid foreign intelligence purposes, as authorized by law.

with multiple layers of oversight to ensure we don't abuse our authorities.

The snowden leaks clearly proved otherwise. D. N. S. A was grabbing metadata off of millions of americans phone calls. This is spying on regular, good standing americans.

And to hear James capper say otherwise means that some were accusing him of criminal jury lying under oath. This ended default. And cracker, our leaders were caught in a lie.

What more can we find on them? But cracker was the one who acted on this. I believe he asked that alone.

Actually, cracker got into the online account for James cappers internet and phone service. Somehow from there he was able to get clapp's wife's social security number and posted that publicly. Then he wrote all the calls coming into James as phone to a free palestine outline. Cracker posted proof of all this to twitter.

I gave him a headline. Like, do there was a sick hack? Like, like respect, like, talking to was there was awesome. You really exposed that .

James capper was actually not the first person from the intelligence community that C. D, U. A. Hacked into. The first was homeless security secretary jay Johnson. Cracker got into his home cast account somehow, and defauts was seen in all this and chatting more with cracker.

So we just started to, like X, C, sit down and think of different people that we should hack together.

They teamed up. And you know what? I'll just let list hold from cbs news take IT from here. Good evening. That a high school student really managed a hack's way to the personal email of one of this country's top spy bosses.

Federal government are urgently trying to answer that question tonight after what appeared to be private and possibly sensitive information was posted online. Given the high profile of the target of the attack and the relatively low tech method used is both disturbing and cautionary tale that nbc pete Williams picks up from here. The apparent victim is not just any amErica and or a government official, it's john brennan, the CIA director since twenty thirteen and a long time key player in the U.

S. Intelligence community. A man who says he's an american high school student claims he hacked his way in the brance personal A O email account by fooling verizon and A L L. Into revealing .

enough information to reset the account password. Hello guys, this twitter account is going now. The apparent hacker says, posting what appears to be an actual spread sheet of names and emails of current and former intelligence officials.

The hacker blanked out their social security numbers. The hacker also says he got into the comcast billing account of the homeland security secretary, jay Johnson. This was the personal email account of brennan, not his government account, and IT appears. No classified information was compromised.

Okay, so tell me how you got into john .

burn's account. Cohn, now, if I remember correctly.

um okay, you know what? Alpha, I mean, the year was two thousand and fifteen. Who remembers little details like this from eight years ago? My research shows that the first found john brunn's mobile phone number, and they did a mobile number look up, discovered he was a verizon user. So time to put on the rules.

They were gonna call up verizon, whose as a technician on site trying to help out a customer, john running, but for some reason were having trouble. So they called verizon asking for help on his account. Horizon is like, what's your employee code? They made one up, and I worked.

The support technician at horizon asked, well, why can you just get into the account yourself? And he said of the tools are down, and we need to get this go and quick because the customer er's waiting. So the support technician was like, okay, sure, or help what you need to know.

And this is how they got john burnings, verizon account number, his ford digit pin, a back up mobile number to his account, the email associated to his account, which was an A L email, and the last four digits of his bank card. Now that they had this extra information on him, how can we leverage that to take this a step further? Will they know his A L email address, which when you log in the L, L, the user name is the email.

So they had john brunn's email username, but not the password. 嗯， well, time to call A O L. So they call A O L this time acting like john bryan.

Hi, i've been locked out of my email account. Can you help me get back in? Sure, mr. Brennan, but i'll need to verify as you. okay.

Can you tell me the last four digits of your credit card number? why? Yes, yes, I can. Because they had this information from the data they got from horizon. Clever, clever.

And so when they gave this information to a, well, this, let them reset his password and get into john burn's L. L. email.

On october twelve, two thousand and fifteen, they gained access to the inbox of the director of the C. I. A.

Oh, they started looking through his emails, reading wine after another, looking at a catchment, sent one attachment, had a list of U. S. Intelligence officials, which included their social security numbers.

Why in the world was john brennan using his ao account to send emails that included social security numbers of U. S. Intelligence officials? This is such bad object. why? Director of the C. I. A. Why you know Better, I think IT just goes to show that no matter how much you know about privacy and security were still human and screw up this whole security thing.

this abl email account had not only like stuff about the war in iraq and afghanistan, I have no idea why he also had S A. ty. Six four and there, 哦。

this this is not good. The S F eighty six form is the form that you've allowed to apply for secret clearance, which means IT has your entire background listed clearly in the form, social security number, email address, telephone number, place of birth, alliances, passports, use prior addresses, names of your neighbors, what school you went to, your military history, past employers, is everything on a person, and now default and crack had at all.

So like you call, tourist password and IT does not matter if you sound like a fourteen old girl on the phone. You got the C. I.

Directors social like that. You have to be him. I mean, I don't really have a choice but to reset the bastard for you. IT was over.

Unreal and crackers just posted the stuff straight up to twitter as cracker and IT wasn't just these two guys in C, W, A. There was some other members there for the ride. But default was suspicious about one of the members in C, W, B, A.

He had somehow eluded capture when he was involved with other groups that mysteriously went down after he had joined them. Also, there's a lot of psychological flags, like red flags, just like trying really hard to befriend us. You know, IT IT was kind of like weird, kind of obvious.

And then when I I actually, like publicly called him now, he could became a completely different person. And that was just another confirmation. IT is hard to understand, you know, fully my train of thought of thinking that we would get away with this. But after some time, we knew that we weren't going to get away with IT. So we just like match the gas and we're like, you know, let's citizen money as we can force over.

And IT IT did like really they had the issue a memo because they were probably terrified because vast IT was like upwards of like ten or eleven people always like C, I, A, F, B I, White house, D, O, J department, homeland security quo and defense contractors. So that was IT was pervasive and you know, far reaching to, like all arms and subcontractors of the intelligence community, to that they were like, what is going? Yeah, we're actually like calling some of these people too. By the way, we actually actually called, I called john brennan on his cell phone night.

Would you say?

I told him he was a piece of shit, and he asked how much money I wanted. I said, I want any money. I want you all to stop being so corrupt and committing crimes while prosecuting people over the same stuff that you are doing.

Like so hypocritical. Like basically like your art, awful people. Like really like you're not doing any net positive things for the world, you just not. And he was like audibly, like shaking up. I can hear in his voice.

well, I mean, just a rant. Phone calls not going be that big deal, but did you say i've also got .

was a personal cell phone number. We read his his social security number two, you know, if if you get a random phone call on your private cell phone number that nobody accepts lect few people supposed to know about, and some random can read new year social security number. I would imagine, as a pretty daring experience.

they were so relentless that people started going into hiding at the time.

The threat level was literally unknown. He was very stressed out. It's like the extra security they had to hire to relocate the C.

I, director and handy deputy director, the F, B, I, to a secure location because they didn't know at the time what the threat level was. They had no idea who we are, what we were. We were infilling ated with what our purpose was. We were some kids, literally, and just missed all of the government, but they didn't .

know at some point they got into amy passes account. SHE was the FBI executive assistant director for science and technology.

I want to log into the portal. You can see the connected tvs. And honest, it's like I think it's like because I think you reminded me like something out of a movie like hackers. so. We played that movie. I think what .

they did here is they called up comcast pretending to be her and get her password reset. And yeah, he worked. And once they got in her comcast portal, they were able to control her TV at home.

And they just started playing the movie hackers on IT. This is a problem with connected and smart devices. You're not the only one who can control them. Amy claimed he suffered from psychological damage from this. And once they got to into somewhat account and mess around there, they just went down the list to the next person.

Jenny said, the a White house spokesperson, a little little just I I took that up on myself because he was calling Edward snowed in a trade. And that triggered me so hard. I was like, I have to hack this lady like, I know that maybe these aren't her words and SHE might just be reading off of like a SHE that you know they want her to say but like, I couldn't stand to hear that kind of stop.

So these guys were just ripping through all these high level people's accounts. IT was insane, the people that they were able to breach. But at some point the two started talking and realized with a minute, we have all this information on U.

S. Intelligence members. What databases do they have access to a next turn, their attention to leap, which stands forward.

The law enforcement enterprise portal IT had the information on all F B I in eight states, like personal information.

So somewhere in all days, they hacked into mark Juliana's accounts. He was the deputy director of the FBI. In using his information, they were able to leverage that to get into leap, which I think is really taking this to another level, to basically pose as the deputy director of the F, B.

I, to access the database that only officials should have access to. I don't know. This just seems crazy to me that this can even happen because why is this leap database even accessible from the internet at all?

Yeah and I think because they have like agents all over, they could have taken security measures. But I think that would have been too much trouble for them. I'm like Youngest. I really don't care like.

That sentiment right there is what I think, a fuelled default to go further. This idea that the U. S. Government thinks that there are some elite ite hacking force able to break in anything and steal anything, yet has a database of FBI agents, personal details on a public website, which is vulnerable to a teenage social engineer to be able to get into IT. They wanted to put their thumb right in the eye of the government and make IT hurt.

How can we trust you with our private data if you can't even protect your federal agents data? Why is the department of defense hacking anything instead of defending their own network on top of that? Why is the world even like this at all? Why is security so bad everywhere that the intelligence community can dive and secure their own stuff? So default and cracker got into the leap database and downloaded all the information. They could unas many FBI agencies. Okay, but what are you going to do with this?

You know, head up with leaks. And is joan, at the time, runs in the account and he is very interested in, obviously, as he always is, and what happened very fast, you know, handed over and he published all including his safety six form and the documents about the warn iraq and afghanistan, along with the leap. IT is still on the week league website if i'm not mistaking the CIA directors personal emails posted by wik leaks after cyber criminal said they broken into his account.

I don't think weekly exposed to any of the stuff from the leap database, but they sure did post john brunn's information. They got into other database too.

jabs the joint agency booking system. Everyone has put into that from county, state and federal level in the prison system.

Yeah, okay. So any person who's put in prison is in this system. And they found access to this very useful.

They were doing things like looking up other hackers that were caught and keeping an I on them, like trying to figure out did they become information. But also they were suspicious of some of the other people in C. W.

A. And there might be an informed within them. So access to this system was kind of like a way to run a criminal report on anyone you wanted very quickly.

So there was a downloading stuff on these database and looking through IT, and that's when they found in these database. There was a bunch of information about the miami did police department. And let's talk about my ami, please.

Yeah, that was another one the my day, please. Um at the time, I really didn't care. I just like that was sure to the end of run and was just like all bets are off you know had gone all the way on the rabb hole. I had just become very disillusioned with key le's complacency and their lack of care for what was going on. So it's like we're going to bring attention to this with my chaos and maham.

So what happened to the police department? Now we got your motive. What did you do?

Well, well, we dropped their dogs pretty lunch this time. IT wasn't to .

wicky league, though. I'm looking at a tweet here which has a link to past bin and then there is a list of eighty miami police officers, their name, title, phone number and email address .

like me and crack a talk in a word like both like physically, like shaking because it's like terror and excitement at the same time you like, i'm access in the top secret data abase. Holy shit, i'm going to get IT caught. But this is exhilarating.

I don't really like, like, what do I do? So okay, we're going to drop this database. Okay, what else we can do? It's like i'm about to get the fuck off this. Thank you.

At the time, cracker was just a teenage high score, but default .

was a chinese.

Three was homeless. like.

I was terrible, really toxic. I live, my dad living there was really bad, which I think kind of like fueled some of this, just like, no over. I no real father figured to, like, tell me what to do.

And what not to do was just lack Better off. I do whatever I want. Really IT became like my whole life hacking really did.

IT was like, go to work, come home hack. Go to work, come home hack. As though I was.

They got to the point where I like, estranged myself from all my friends and they didn't know why, because I never told him. And you know, you can't that's just part of IT. It's is very lonely existence you know he especially if you like, come on these crimes.

At that time, I had a significant amount of money and bitcoin, and I really just stop, you know, that was actually a key factor. And like all of this, like money was no longer issue. So now what you know, like twenty two years old and you have several million dollars.

yeah, let's want that then. So how do you get to seven, several million early.

a mining and mine from since two thousand eleven? I was so early to get in, I was like, oh, my god. And these things were like thirty to forty times more powerful than the average graphics processing unit at money background. So yeah, started mine, a lot of big coin.

So john holdren, I have IT down here that someone and try to swim.

Yeah, not me. I have. No, I, I, I don't even remember him getting swatted.

So a the idea was using opposing as him to call the police from his phone and then get IT say there's a violent incident here and then then come and to his house do .

that pissed me off so much that that even get primitives like somewhat to me because technically a conspiracy is if I know about someone to commit in the crime and don't instantly go tell on them, i'm complicated. So it's like because I was in the chat room with one of the people while they did this. Now i'm a party to the crime.

I'm like, what the fuck only wanted be a part of sway? I don't I hate that shit. Its people have died from that.

There was there was some sort of current. There was an undercurrent of people online at the time, right, that you were mixed up in that was also very involved in this sort of thing. I'm talking about anonymous, for example, right? Anonymous is was always calling out injustices of the world and threatening this and night because people were just being and IT felt like he felt like being part of that was the winning side, right?

IT felt like you do what morally right?

And and I don't know if that exists today. I think today we've kind of lost that pulse.

The empathy y is at all time low, just like caring for your follow man and like the bigger picture. But people have just become very complacent and would rather just like be content with the way things are. And that's a dangerous road to go down because while that's going on, I can assure you that the N S.

A, you know the five years and all these other people they are including together are not being complicated. They are actually you know, getting more aggressive with the spine and hacked in. And I think IT was like rule forty one past where it's like they can just like literally hag people now like they don't need to go physically kicking your door like no, they could just hack you.

And i'm pretty sure that's how I got caught. Is that the nsa I got involved? I know I got hacked two days before I got rated.

Well, let's talk about that. So how do you think the how did they catch you?

It's three, four. There's three things that contributed to IT um because the official ship, they say, is so fun, hilarious because I never used my home I P address. I had a giant wifi satellite dish that could reach up to a mile away.

okay? So I was usually using the dairy queen that was like a half a mile away at free wifi. So the bullshit answer of, oh, we pulled twitter logs and he had his I P and and like, no, I didn't.

I've never fucked and use my home, my picture on that twitter count. Like, that's why I bought this. So I would never do that.

I was so overkill on my ops like IT was a process like literally my hard drives to my desktops had a completely a descript which took like thirty to forty minutes. And then I I don't have like internal wifi cards and my lapse, anything like I have to like connect stuff. So it's not like automatically connected anything around me.

Um super paranoid do like I mean you kind of have to be. And then after that, i'm connected through torno des in my bodman. If there was three fold, one one I know was a contributing factor, one hundred percent, because, like he's told me, one of my friends who I thought was my friend, and this is crazy over a female.

Of course, what had happened was I ended up hooking up with a girl, and I had asked him prior to this, I was like, do mine. It's like you dated her a while ago. Whatever demand to find, like hook with her talk or whatever. He said, no, I was like, okay, well, I asked you. So like, big now forever hold your peace broke.

I'm gonna IT like, literally like you got mad at me and I was like, why didn't you be a man and tell me, like, you still not feeling for I I would have respected that and if I got to know and like, so that kind of started at all. Like, I didn't know he had, like, ill intentions toward me. And so whatever will move faster and then like the C W thing happens and we're drunk one night and we're like x box live, whatever.

Like, I slip up for the first time ever been fun. Argent and IT comes on the news. C. I, director hack boba blaw the stuff and I like, that was us. Bob was a drunk talking and just totally like, gave myself away. But I mean, think he would take me serious, I guess like, I don't know as drunk, but he did. And he actually reported me to the FBI and then he told me that he reported me to the FBI and i'm gonna name drop on, but he knows who is and a semi al scum bag stuff to do like over over that like I .

just could .

never imagine. I would never do something like that to another person. I guess this I don't know. So that's one prom that's definitely maybe got them to look into make an anonymous p the other one is the person in our group that that is a snack. But on what information was able to collect about me, I don't know.

He was always posted where links in our you know you know like a usual shorteners so I could have done some sketchy stuff with that. I really did never click on those. And um the other one was Julian sane that the nsa evolved and me knowing that I got hacked yes.

when they gave john burn's S F eighty six form to Julia sa wikia gues, this really anger the department of defense. And Julian somehow got word that the N. S.

A was adding in the investigation. So Julian told default to be careful. Then one day, default computer started acting up. Something wasn't right. IT was crashing and glitchy. And he looked at the network traffic and saw some connections to linger Virginia, where the CIA is being part of.

I knew always act. Uh, my computers acting crazy, was having weird connections shuttle off. Um I like fuck and so I should laugh for a while and a couple of days. Go by one day and on second day turn to back on after I get home from school and like start to creep IT takes like thirty forty minutes. Okay, but I noticed when I got home there was a black van suburbans and across the street, and I didn't think anything of IT.

And also now I remember very, very, very sketchy people had moved in across the street, this little house, and they just set on the front port, smoking cigarettes, looking at my house, not to stop. So like, literally minutes after my desktop scripted came online, they came in like, what are the chances of that? They literally waited and waited, usually the'd bomb rush.

You like, right when you get home, where are you in the house? So you like somewhere they can can find you in a space. And what IT is probably is they waited for that to come on and paying whatever promote controller they had, whatever serve IT was connecting back to, to verify that my test stop is unencrypted.

What heavily not on the door tell me about that incident.

Don't they knock on the dower? Okay, what they do deadly. Don't knock on the dot row.

They kicked that shooting. They hit ted in with a fucked and RAM. And all I heard was FBI searched.

warm and at your dad's house.

right? yeah. And I just like, before I could all had to do was pull the plug. E and they had some machine guns pointed in my face. And I like black out.

He had his computer set up in such a way that if he disconnected the power to IT, IT would be encrypt his hard drive. He just needed to grab the court in bullet. But when you're sitting there, add your computer with assault rifles pointed at you don't think you're gonna reach for that power acord. So at gunpoint, he had no choice but to let them seized the computer they had at all.

And I knew I was, fuck, I was like, there's so much data on there, they can have a field day tell anyone know what they have yet, but I know so I pretty much note was over at that point.

They pulled you out of that room and someone else went in there to start taking your computer, get on plug and take IT. They know .

they've got the immediate like hacked up something to flash copy in my hard drive yeah and secret service was there as well because I think someone like hack down trumps website or some shit, we had no idea about our really you know they assume your line about everything they like come on, you know about that ami. I honestly, really have no idea you're talking about.

Like why would I hack down the trumps website? Like I don't give a shit about downtown mp's website row, but I guess secret services get get involved. So i'm sent across like B J.

King and like some very stereotypical tall, muscular secret service agent, like boating down on me, like asking me a one part of H T P. And like, where's nack cash? And i'm like, dude, like, I don't know what you think this is like. It's not going to go down like this. And I think they were like doing coordinated attack where they were like rating the all at the same time because they didn't want anyone to be able to notify .

each other is true. Around the same time, cracker was also rated by the police. IT turned out he was living in the U.

K. And he was a high school where he took the fault straight to jail. Please just weren't sure how dangerously was. And they didn't want to take chances. I think due to the nature of this, they likely did.

I met so that when his computer was online, that's when they would read him and capture as much evidence as they could. How they knew his computer was online is a mystery to me. Still, when they look into the window, do they hack into his computer and wait for IT to signal out or something?

His theory is that they did have come. His computer was now in the hands of federal authorities, completely unlocked and description. And well, the stuff they found on there was clearly enough to convict him of many crimes. String shots that you have taken, bandy camp videos.

all god is the domi ever did.

But how did they get the videos if you never post?

Because like literally like I said, like I basically did all the heavy lift in for them because like i'm obsessive compulsive with like a archiving data stuff that probably shouldn't be archived like, oh, I think it'll be cool to record me doing this crime and I will look back on IT later um and it'll be safe because it'll be on my encysted hard drive. Well, what if your hard drive is not encrypted? And then now they have literal, irrefutable, able proof that you recorded yourself comma crime that they would have no idea you had anything to do with.

There was one device in particular that he watched them take. I knew what was on IT, something that was very important to him, so important that I just imagine, as he watches and walk off with IT, that his world just goes quiet and almost become slow motion. But he couldn't say anything and just watch them take IT, because this was a secret.

One of the things they took for me was one of my external hard drive, which I wanted back very, very much. So what was, is my bitcoin wallet. I I had a lot of bitcoin on their man, like about almost a thousand day coin.

They had all the evidence they needed to convict him. He knew IT. There was no way to get out of this, so he pleaded guilty and the George sentence him to five years in prison. Was prison rock bottom for you?

Oh yeah, for sure. I gotten trouble for like exposing, uh, the prison that I was that and how they weren't hearing to any coffee policies and like open dorms.

So it's like if cover gets in here for one, these guards like everyone's going to get cove at people going to die and you're are still like coming in our rooms and like touch over shit and flipping everything upside down and like, so I recorded all this, would like a phone ahead and senators, some reporters I knew, and of course someone told on me and like the next day S I S came and sup me up and took me to the shoe, which is no solitary confinement. And from there they weren't let me back on the compound, and they weren't shipping people because there was locked down, full, locked down, because a coin. So I spent a year back there.

A year in solitary, can find me the hardest thing I ever deny my entire life. And there is a lot of people back there that unfortunately kill themselves because it's extremely psychologically testing to be locked in. And this tiny little cell, twenty four, seven, you don't get out at all. Like even in the worst prisons in america, dependent endorses. You have to let them out at least one hour day called twenty three and one we didn't get that IT was twenty four seven for three sixty five.

He read a lot of books in prison, learned about the importance of morals from an italian gang, and picked up stock market trading skills from a stock broker. And when he got out, he was banned from the internet entirely. IT was part of his probation for a while.

Same with cracker. Cracker was banned from the internet for while two, and he ended up with a two year prison for even though he was only sixteen. But all that time has passed now, and both of them are out and back online.

Default struggled to get back on his feet. He couldn't find a job, especially being banned from the internet, especially having a felony record. So he eventually got into trading stocks and crypto currencies. He's still doing this now, and he feels like he's good enough to make a living from IT.

Just sharing my story with people I think is you know, not just because it's an interesting story and people enjoy listening to, but I think there's a lot of net positive results and things that people can learn from this that maybe they're not in prisoner and not going to prisons, whatever, but they're a low point in life. If IT it's like, look to, it's not the end of the world. Like literally, you can bounce back from anything.

You can change your life. You can change. You decide who you want to be every single day just because you made some mistakes doesn't mean that that determines who you are in which your character is as a person.

You know, something I keep thinking about listening to the story is digital privacy. And i'm not going to go on another rat like I did in the last episode. But in this case, government officials were docked.

These guys told their information to use IT against them and then publish IT to wiki leagues. How does someone come back from getting the private information publish the wiki leagues? I mean, i'm looking at john burn's S A six form right now.

It's still there on we leagues and it's the very first hit on google when you search for IT, everyone knows everything about him. IT seems like anyone should just be able to do a password reset on, you know, I mean, you could in person ate him over the phone because you have all his information. You can essentially be him.

The director of the C. I, A, because we all have all his information, it's possible for someone to get any new social security number. It's not easy.

You really have to prove to the social security office that you're in danger. And I bet government officials at this level might be able to skate through the whole process easier. And I think it's busy and not get a new phone number and email dress.

It's not so easy to just up and move to a new house. So but that's doable. It's possible to change your name too.

But what's the point of that when you're a public figure? And that doesn't fix any of the problems of knowing all your previous addresses and who your neighbors were, your past employers, date of birth, hometown, height, eye color see, I think with all the dogs and going on in the world, I wish there was a simple way to just burn your identity and start fresh, how i'd even be interested in doing IT yearly myself, just to always keep distance from whoever might be trying to track me out there. And everyone is trying to track us.

I wish I knew what john e. Bryan did to recover from this. I don't reach out to me because I assume he wouldn't want to talk about IT because we just be giving away more of his private information.

But I feel like we need a Better system to help us, the regular people out there. When we get in this situation. Private information is not a thing of the past.

We still need our privacy. But I think what might help is just Better tools to stay private in general. You want my address? Oh, sorry, I only give out my proxy address.

A postbox that receives male for me, opens the letters and then sends me pictures of those letters. You want my phone number? Oh, sorry, I only give out burner phone numbers.

You are my social security number. Um, no, I don't give that out to anyone. Oh, what is for my security clearance? Sorry, that's not even a safe place to give IT. You think you hear about what happened to john?

Running these pieces of information on us are important that they remain out of the public view, yet time and time again, they get into the public view. And it's not just from doxy data breaches, companies sharing your data or or you just giving your information to the wrong people. I mean, for instance, I had to give my social security number to buy bitcoin.

And now the CEO of the accompany that I gave my social to is in prison. So who knows where my data went? So I think we're way overdue for a Better system to protect our most important data.

I think we need to stop giving IT out to just anyone who ask for, I mean, that the store buying bananas the other day and you're asking for my phone number and my zip code and all stuff. I think there needs to be fewer situations where we need to provide IT. I think we need to be less reliant on our private information as a way to authorities.

Really, us think we need a way to recover from situations where it's been completely exposed, which I think with the echo fax breach, most of us americans have had our private data completely exposed. anyway. I think this is a problem that needs to be solved.

And well, I think some solutions are out there. It's peace, meal and complicated. I'll see anyone doing IT holistically right now. Something had still rattles around in my head from the story that hard drive that the feds took. IT still has his bitcoin wallet on IT.

The feds never got access to that bitcoin in, is still sitting there untouched, and they still have that hard drive and won't give you back. And the reason they kept IT is because IT has evidence on IT data that he stalled from various places. He asked them, just take what you want off IT and give me back the drive, but they refused.

One thousand big coin still sits on a hard drive. One thousand big going today is worth twenty five million dollars. Just imagine twenty five million dollars sitting in some storage locker in a federal building. And the friends have no idea it's there. So IT sits for years and will probably one day be destroyed by some lowly computer technician.

A big thinking to default for coming on the show and sharing this in save story with us. Like this one I was like, wait.

what like so many times, just unreal.

If you like, this episode should probably check out episode nine called team poison. It's another story that was sort of running along side, this one in parallel and sort of same time in place of the internet. Okay, what housekeeping is? Oh yeah, a lot of you are telling me you are finally caught up.

And i've listened all the episodes. If that you, what you do know, there are ten bonus episodes on patron. You can support the show and hear more stuff if he wants go to paton dark.

My favorite ite online hanging out these days is the darkness dies discord. We have seventeen thousand members, but I can squeeze win. So just go to discord, got G, G, flash, darkies, and come say hi.

This episode was created by me. The slow lowest, jacky sider IT was assembled by the copy in porpus trust and ledger, mixing done by proximity sound. And I think music is by the mysterious breakfasted soner.

I try teaching. My mom had to build A P. C, but all we did was make my mother board. This is dark entries.