The Telepathy Tapes and Physics w/ Dr. Diane Hennacy Powell, Dr. Yu
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Well, we're going to have a fun conversation today, another edition of our Science & U! series that we do, and that's because we're going to talk about the world of consciousness, the topic of telepathy, and we're going to see how it intersects with the world of physics. And so, as always with our Science & U! segments, we have my co-host and our chief science advisor for our program, Dr. Yu. How are you doing, sir?

I'm doing great. Thank you again for having me here. Give me an opportunity to meet one of the greatest. And then we have our guest today, who is Dr. Diane Hennessy Powell, who a lot of folks have been turning to her for decades to understand the world of consciousness and I guess what we would say anomalous consciousness.

forms of sensory experience or telepathy. So thank you, Dr. Diane, for joining us. Yeah, you're welcome. Good to be here. So I want to just dive in with the kind of introductory part of this, which is that, you know, I discovered your work through this podcast series that someone shared with me called the Telepathy Tapes, which is about

a series of nonverbal autistic children that you've been studying and researching. But for those who are not familiar with your work, tell us a little bit about how you got into this field and then also how you got involved with this podcast that everybody's been talking about. Okay, thank you. So I started out as a neuroscience student.

student basically an undergraduate and continued to do neuroscience research when I went to medical school and I became a neuropsychiatrist with a specialty in autism. I studied with Sir Michael Rutter in 1986 when autism was still pretty rare but I was really interested in it because I had met Oliver Sacks when I was at Johns Hopkins

and had read his book, The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat. And in it, he talked about these autistic savants who, they couldn't do basic math. They couldn't even tie their shoes. And yet they could generate...

prime numbers in digits that exceeded our computational capacity at the time. I mean, it was like a game they'd play. And when Oliver Sacks met them, they were doing six digit numbers and they did up to 20 digits. And he was able to check with prime number tables, them to 12 digits accurately. And that intrigued me because I thought, what is going on here? Is it that these autistic savants are showing that they have some kind of

um, quantum computational processes going on in their, in their brain. That's, that's what I was thinking as a neuroscientist back in the, um, back in the eighties, even cause I have a brother who's a theoretical physicist. And, um, so anyway, I, uh,

I wanted to study it, but it was so rare that I couldn't. But then in around 2010, after my book, The ESP Enigma, came out, autism was at a high enough incident that I was invited to go to India to evaluate some of these savants who had savant skills and they reportedly had ESP skills, things like precognition or remote viewing. And

When I was over there, I was told that they were all telepathic. And I thought that that would be worth studying because, um,

First of all, it's a confounding variable if you have these individuals who say, oh, I can solve these mathematical problems, but they're able to somehow get the information by cheating, by picking it from somebody's mind. And so I thought, well, I'll test that out. And so I put that out there as a hypothesis, and then I started getting results.

contacted by people from around the world, including a family in Wisconsin who Darrell Treffert had evaluated. And he determined that he thought the child had telepathy. And so I did controlled experiments with her, decided that I really wanted to get this work out there, do a documentary about it. And so that was back in 2012, 2013.

They presented this work at scientific conferences. But it's really hard to get funding when you're doing something that's so, you know, fringe. And so when I was approached by Kai Dickens four years ago about doing a documentary, I agreed to introduce her to some of the families that had contacted me over the years and particularly some who had just contacted me that month.

And we went down to Atlanta and saw the children and she was blown away and decided that that's what she wanted to do is to do a documentary about it and created a podcast first in order to raise money for the film. So when did the podcast come out and how's the progress of the film?

Well, so the progress. So, first of all, the podcast came out in September 24. And by Christmas Day, it surpassed Joe Rogan in terms of its popularity in the English speaking world. So, yeah, it just like took off like a rocket. Yeah.

And so we're in the process of working on the documentary now. So it probably won't be completed until the end of the year and then available next year. Does it have a home yet where people can look for it or is it still negotiating or whatever? Yeah, it's still negotiating, yeah. Wow. I was just thinking with such a hot property, sometimes those things get, you know,

They make deals fast, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, we decided to make a feature film out of it first rather than a docuseries because we wanted to have more control over it. You lose a lot of control when you go through the networks. And so after that, it could end up being serialized and put on TV. Yeah.

So what, you know, I got to listen to the Telepathy Tapes podcast. Why do you think it's resonating so wildly? You know, this is a topic that, you know, you've always, there's always been programs talking about these types of anomalies and, you know, these have always been something that have been a fixture of American tabloids and fascinations and hard copy television shows and

Coast to coast AM radio. It's always been a thing that people have talked about these things, but something really seems to have struck a nerve this time with the podcast series that you're talking about. Can you tell us a little bit about what, for those who are not familiar with the show, what do you think it is that made everybody so excited about it?

Well, I think part of it is, you know, someone with my credentials, you know, neuroscientist, you know, MD, neuropsychiatrist. So, you know, giving some kind of credence to this type of work. I think that's part of it. I think part of it is that people in general are fascinated by these autistic kids. There are so many people who have...

encountered them and just really had this sense that there was something else there. So there's kind of a mysterious population. But I also think that it's hearing the voices of the parents and the teachers and the psychologists and the speech therapists and all of these different people

People who have witnessed themselves something that they're convinced is telepathy, talking about it in their own words and telling the stories. So I think that's part of it. I think also the timing is right. I think that people are really... They're ready for a shift in the paradigm. They're really...

There's been enough out there in the media, whether you're talking about the films. There have been films on the Sixth Sense and whatnot. Or you're talking about all of these shows, Ancient Aliens. You've got...

Then books like, you know, Harry Potter, a lot of 30 somethings, you know, grew up, you know, reading Harry Potter. And so I think there's a readiness for it. And I also think that with...

The advances we've seen in technology and seeing how a lot of what we thought of as sci-fi at one point is no longer sci-fi. I mean, you know, just my smartphone was sci-fi back when I was a kid, you know. And yet, you know, the same Star Trek show that my brother was watching, who's the physicist, was

who also writes sci-fi, that that very show, you know, you also had somebody who was a telepath, you know, and so it's kind of, and then you have all of this interest in UAPs and people talking about the fact that, you know, their contact experiences happen through telepathy. So I think it's just a, you know, convergence of a lot of different things. Yeah.

But Dr. Yu, you know, I want you to jump in. You know, I kind of wanted to set the table for some basic questions and then have you dive in wherever you want with some physics questions or thoughts that you have. So you're free to jump in whenever you want. But just to kick it to you for a second, you know, you have often said that there's consciousness, the way we perceive of it is not correct. And the physics that we've tended to use as the foundation for a lot of our kind of textbook theories

of the world may not give us an accurate model or map for understanding what's really going on with consciousness, right? Is that a good place to start for you is consciousness or do you have something else? You know, the definition of consciousness, right? Somehow, you know, it's abstract. So I just say my understanding of the consciousness is the consciousness

Consciousness is awareness of existence, of yourself, and the surroundings. And of course, some say, hey, you have the ability for subjective experience. But as a physicist, I'm going to explore what is the origin of consciousness.

So, in order for, basically, it's very similar to the origin of life. In order to have the origin of life, in order to have the origin of consciousness, you have to have interaction, you have to have a force. So, from the physics point of view, what is the fundamental, called the inherent natural force?

with the fundamental matter. And what I discovered is the only fundamental force acts at every single particle level, subatomic particle level. The only one fundamental force is magnetic force.

So based on that one, so I said, okay, we have a magnetic force. Does magnetic force, so does magnetic force be able to generate consciousness, have this ability? So since consciousness is awareness of yourself, subjective experience and also environment. So you have to have this ability, conscious ability to sensing something, to sensing something without even over distance.

So I was like, hey, if you have a magnet very close to a refrigerator, your magnet will be automatically withdrawn to the metallic part of the refrigerator without even in contact. So this is one type of force doing interaction.

So that's what I believe. So since the fundamental force is a magnetic force, so the origin of consciousness, of course, depends on the magnetic force. And the magnet has the property, number one, it can select. It has a like-pull-repel, unlike-pull-attract. So it does have the ability to select. It's not like random.

It's all active select based on magnetic poles and also has the function acting over distance. Since I'm working in the aerospace industry, we're doing sensing like Voyager 1 or Voyager 2. They were launched in 1977.

So they are already outside of the solar system already. So we are still communicating with them. That means we can still communicate with them, which I believe might have drawn some similarity between human beings communicate through brain instead of through scientific instruments. The only difference is at a different level.

resonant frequency at a different frequency level. So human being receive at a certain frequency. And so we may not be able to detect a vogey once signal. However, as long as you have an instrument that adjusted the tool at the frequency level, you can receive it. You can receive it over long, in this case, over what is that? At least more than 20 hours.

from the signal generator from the Voyager 1 outside of solar system in order to be detect. The only technique we use is

we know the frequency they broadcast and we tune our receiver to that frequency. Another thing is to use antenna to make sure we point to the exact direction we have a receiver on. So make the signal stronger. So this is how we communicate basically daily in space industry. And I would think that this probably serve as a

parallel to human receiving consciousness. Since human brain is an antenna and also generates signals, like signal generators. And as long as we tune in the same frequency, I believe

Yeah, people can receive it maybe from this half of the universe to the Earth, maybe to the other side of the Earth too, you know, because of the frequency vibrated in this atmosphere, you know, or this ionosphere level, you know, so can be crossed.

cross be receiving. I don't know if that make any sense to you, Diane. You're talking about autistic people. They're losing their direct communication ability. However they use, sometimes you're losing something, you gain something, right? Somehow they strengthen their natural ability. This is a natural antenna and receiver.

and communicate. So what's your view? Yeah, well, I agree with you that I think electromagnetism is definitely involved. And what I think that they're doing is I think that they're tapping into the Schumann frequencies of the earth

Okay. Basically standing waves. And so those end up being like transmission lines. And so once they get into those very low frequencies, which we know for the brain, that is right there around the borderline between alpha and theta.

So right there at around 8 hertz, which is very close to the 7.8 hertz Schumann frequency. And there is a lot of research that's been done looking at the EEGs of people who have these abilities. For example, remote viewers like Ingo Swann. And his brain was operating. He had a signal in there showing that he had a regular 7 hertz signal there.

And so that's what would make sense is that we're all really interconnected by, you know, it's like a web of that frequency.

And when we go into that state, you know, a meditative state that puts us into that, of course, the whole brain isn't in that frequency. You just need certain sections of the brain to be in that frequency. And one of the things I'm trying to figure out is which what's the circuitry for that that you need to have, you know, in resonance with the standing waves.

Oh, you know, a certain part of the brain, you know, because of different density, different hardness, you know, different materials of brain, of course, you have a different resonant frequency. And so you said about it, if we can see the brain have different parts and different strengths, so certain part of the

just happen to tune into this resonant frequency. So then they can amplify. So you mentioned by the Schumann frequency, that's a background frequency that can enhance the signals.

So I believe that that's a very important point. Oh, so human actually brings singing, this is called the red singing, the frequency very nearby a human or the resident, because that's how you need the background to enhance the signals, right? The energy.

And once, whenever you, so we saw that the human frequency is basically under that frequency band, it could have a little bit of variations. However, as long as a human cells reach to one of the frequency within the human frequency range, as long as it makes that, so that frequency will be enhanced because it will be resonant

resonated with by Earth's natural frequency. That makes perfect sense. Oh my goodness. So their frequencies are very, very coordinated, very similar. Oh, okay. I learned something. I never thought about it. Every signal, we need to enhance the signal. How to enhance? We need to have a constant input, some frequencies.

Very small, as long as constant. And if you resonate with that one and gradually amplitude will be magnified, could be infinity theoretically, right? So that's how we make even very weak human salts transmitted over half of the Earth. Oh my goodness. That's very good thoughts. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, you're welcome. And...

So there's this, you know, like the Monroe Institute, which is a place that studies these kind of phenomena and, you know, teach people how to do, you know, have out-of-body experiences and whatnot. They use a technology called Hemisync in which they use these binaural beats. So what they do is they have an input into the ears that is different for each ear and

And they're trying to create that 7.8 frequency by differential between the two ears. Yes, that's how you tune it. We are not able to tune it right at that frequency, but we create an interference band. And once they catch that one, now you can find tuning.

to amplify only the specific frequency you are interested in. Oh, they use a different frequency from the... Very clever. Yeah, so everything goes with the first principle. Yeah. I do have a question for you. Do you see telepathy other than from autistic people? How about identical twins? Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.

Oh yeah, there's lots of research on identical twins who are telepathic with one another. Guy Playfair wrote about that and I have a chapter on that in my book, The ESP Enigma. And what's interesting, if you think about it, is each individual, due to our unique DNA, we each have our own unique resonance frequency. Right.

And so identical twins are going to have the same resonance frequency. So that's why I make it so often happens between twins instead of regular two siblings. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Makes perfect sense. Is it something about the structure of the identical twins that makes the similar structure of their face and anatomy and everything?

similar material properties, I would say. You know, if they have similar structure and if you know different material have different resonance frequency. So even for brain itself, different parts may have a different resonance frequency. However, identity twins, they probably have a lot of more similarity between the two than anybody else.

So more often. Yeah. Fascinating. I talk in my book about identical twins who are raised apart and

So these are children who were born identical twins and for whatever reason, they needed to be adopted and people didn't adopt both of them. So you had two different families, sometimes in totally different cultures, raising these children who never knew one another. And this scientist took these birth records and was able to locate these identical twins together.

and found that they had all of these things in common. I mean, they oftentimes, like, married...

Married women with the same name, named their dog the same thing, had the same, you know, the same taste in clothes, music, cigarettes, drove the same car. You know, I mean, uncanny number of parallels between them, even though they didn't grow up anywhere near one another.

And so it makes you think of that's that's really I mean, talk about entanglement that that's, you know, a form of, yeah, a form of entanglement. Was that because their bodies are so similar that their their thoughts and so forth are just going to be kind of hitting on the same TV channel, so to speak, around us? And I mean, I'm trying to use metaphors to bring it back down to.

I think it's at the DNA level. I don't think that it's at the, yeah. I mean, there's a lot of things that change our, you know, even our brain structure. I mean, you know, some of it's,

you know, you know, maybe, you know, let's say 50% of it is, you know, sort of in the genetics, but a lot of it is what experiences we have during those first five years where our brain is being shaped and sculpted while we're acquiring various skills and learning things. So, so you can have a lot of differences in their brain wiring and yet, you know, they're,

You know, they end up being so similar. And so it makes me wonder whether what role the DNA is playing in this. I mean, there's some people that talk about DNA as though it's sort of like almost like an antenna of sorts or some kind. You know, there's some way in which the DNA is in resonance. So it's more like.

It's more along those lines as opposed to it being the result of the expression of the DNA, which would be their physiology. Yeah, it is from the fundamental, that is a DNA level, if not from an individual particle. Yes, I believe because of similar DNA, so that's how you generate the similarities between identical twins, right?

So then you have a similar behavior and similar frequencies of the community. There's one part I still have not figured out for autistic children. So you said that they can do, can find out a prime number, even 20 digits. This is not a common human being able to achieve. So where ability that comes from?

Well, exactly. I mean, that's what fascinated me, you know, and it really made me question, you know, where is information? You know, do we live in informational fields?

because you have these individuals who have something called acquired savant syndrome, where they are somebody who don't really have any talents. They get struck by lightning or they have a severe accident. And then afterwards there are, you know, a master pianist or mathematician or, you know, something changed in that process. And to me, it's, it's almost as though, um,

they now have access to an informational field and that what the brain does and the mind too, you know, with all the noisy thoughts that we have, just repetitive thinking, that filters out this informational field, but that these autistics seem to be able to tap into it somehow. Which, I mean, it's interesting because there's...

you know there are a lot of eastern traditions that really talk about there being some kind of um you know uh you know whether it's edgar casey called it the akashic records but you know it you know what i think of it is that like there's a there's something that's similar to the cloud that we surf with our computers only it's an informational field that um that we with our unique

abilities can tap into. Perhaps that information is, some people have proposed that that information is stored in plasma since the majority of the universe is filled with plasma. I agree totally. Yes, that's how people communicate.

you know, over space, right? So where the information has transmitted through the space. So that's why it's stored. And this space, if it's not a plasma, which means it's all charged particle. So that's why you can have the ability to store memories, store information, transmit the information. It all makes perfect sense. Yeah, yeah. And some people think that plasma itself has computational properties.

I don't know if you've heard that, but that's an interesting thought. So receiving those prime numbers from the competition property of the plasma. Plasma should have that information, I would believe, right? It's more that there's this...

There's some sort of plasma like David Bohm studied. I mean, there was like some kind of, it was almost like a life form. I mean, the way that it moved. And there's this idea that it could potentially be

do computations. And I'm not an expert on that. I'm curious what your thoughts are. Do you think that plasma... There's someone named Robert Temple who wrote a book about plasma, and he thinks that plasma could have computational abilities. I'm wondering if you've ever thought anything like that. Oh, but for me, the plasma field, that's where information transmits and information stores.

The only thing is for the receiver, you open your channel to receive that piece of information. It's still difficult to imagine you can come on a primary number with 20 digits. I know. I know. I know. You have the story, I think I heard you mention in another program, a story of a girl who could

do the equations that the, you know, she could see the equations that were in the mind of the tutor or the tester. Can you explain that story and how that worked? Oh, well, that was, so the first child that I tested for telepathy was Haley. And her father thought that she was a mathematical savant because she could solve all kinds of, you know, very sophisticated mathematical problems. And then one day the therapist who was working with her said,

they call them therapists that go into the home that was working with her, calculator died on her and she had to use a different calculator in order to, you know, to figure out what the answer was. And what happened was, is it gave it to her in logarithmic notation, whereas before she was getting it in regular notation and Haley typed out the answer in logarithmic notation. And the therapist was like, well, wait a minute. How did you...

How did you do that, Haley? How did you know that it's in a different notation? And then that's when Haley said to her, oh, I see the numerators and denominators in your mind.

And so then that's when the therapist started testing her going, well, what are you saying? You can read my mind? Well, who is my landlord? And she goes, helmet, you know, and oh, well, what am I thinking of right now? Oh, Barney, you know, and so it was she was just blown away. And and then independently, a second therapist working with the same child discovered the same thing. Also, inadvertently. Yeah.

You know, you'd think if this was, you know, well, I mean, I know the CIA used a lot of this, but you'd think they'd be harnessing this to try to get intelligence out of other countries. I guess that's what they were doing with remote viewing. But this seems like even more precise, really, you know, you know what I mean? So if you could have a diplomat with those types of powers, just walk into a room and know what the other person's actually thinking or desiring or whatever.

Yeah, well, it's, yeah, I mean, these children have, they have to spend a lot of time just cloistered away because it's really challenging for them to be, you know, sort of that porous, that, you know, receiving that much information and to really function out there in the world. What is the proposed mechanism for how they would, you know, develop such sensitivity to the fields at that level because of the

Lack of functionality with traditional forms of communication. You know, like I'm thinking of Ian McGilchrist and the left and right hemisphere. And he talks about the way in which the left hemisphere kind of in our Western society tends to dominate and, you know, left hemisphere modes of thinking, as he would say it.

tend to work themselves out in our institutions and the way in which we handle one another, and that the right hemisphere is actually the master. You know, his famous book, The Master and His Emissary. Is that something going on there, that maybe there's some kind of damage in the left hemisphere's ability to kind of assert itself and the consciousness, and therefore the right hemisphere is able to tap into the human resonance and communicate in that way, maybe? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's one of the reasons why I, um, hypothesize that autistics would be the most likely to demonstrate these kinds of abilities. It wasn't just because I knew of Savant syndrome. It was also that I knew about their brain functionality. And, and so one of the things we do know is that people who don't normally think of themselves as psychic can have these, uh, have precognitive dreams, for example, or they can, um,

Have someone who just died appear in a dream to them. And so they're accessing this non-local information. And if you look at, so I thought, well, I want to know what's the brain functionality during dreaming sleep, because that could give me a clue as to what's going on during psychic abilities. And what you see there is that the left hemisphere is shut down and the right hemisphere is dominant.

And so it's one of the left hemisphere, which is our logical sort of rational thinking, you know, mind, which sort of limits what we can experience because it tells us what is and isn't possible. That's shut down during dreams. And that's one of the reasons why we can have impossible, you know, what we think of as impossible dreams. You know, things happen in our dreams, right?

And we don't even question it. You know, we can have somebody that, you know, has three eyes and, you know, red skin and, you know, we don't even think anything about it. So I had that hypothesis and I thought, well, you know, who is it that really would be in their waking state having a bright hemisphere dominance?

And the autistics fit the bill because if you think about it, language predominantly, I mean, the ability to express language is a left hemisphere ability. And in these autistic kids, that's where they've had, you know, something happen to their brain development such that that area didn't get developed. And then if you look at a lot of the savant skills, you know,

A lot of them are pattern recognition, gestalt thinking, visual spatial. Those are all what we think of as right hemisphere skills. And so I thought, oh, well, this would be the population. And lo and behold, they seem to fit the bill. I'd like to see if, you know, I have a lot I'd like to ask some of these individuals to think about.

would it be possible for them to make insights about physics to help Dr. Yu and folks like him, you know, to understand if they know the nature of numbers, could they give insights into the nature of light, the nature of, you know, all these different phenomena that we have these, you know, theoretical debates about? Could we maybe so-called settle some of these things with some of this tapped-in knowledge that they might have access to?

I think these individuals should have podcasts. Are you going to help them maybe do that? You know, somehow translate that? I mean, that'd be fascinating, you know? Talk about a hit podcast. Let's hear from folks who could see it at a different level, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, one of the things that we want to do is we want to create some kind of partnership between these children and scientists. Most of them really are in love with science. You know, that's what they want to do. And so that's why I say pair them with scientists predominantly, you know, because that's what they're interested in. And, you know, we already have...

One story, at least, if not more, of them being able to give some insight that really helped someone out. A functional medicine doctor that I know asked this boy, what is it that's going on with autism? What would be a way of helping autistic individuals? And the boy said to give them thiosulfate,

Um, and thiosulfate is, will bind cyanide. And it turns out that, that,

a high percentage, if not all of these children have high cyanide in their system. And the source of the cyanide is overgrowth of a bacteria that produces the cyanide as a side effect. So if you give them the thiosulfate, it actually helps to bind the cyanide and help see some improvements in them

But also you want to try to treat the gut dysbiosis and minimize the amount of that organism that's creating the cyanide in the first place.

Dr. Yu, I wanted to ask you about, you know, you've talked about every particle having magnetic fields, every subatomic particle, infinite magnetic fields, each with their own frequency. And now we know that the heart has a stronger magnetic field than even the brain, right? So how does this communication that she's describing, how does that work on the physics level? It's not just brain to brain through the fields. It's also perhaps heart to heart. And, you know, gut, you know, the gut has...

serotonin receptors, like, like almost like a second brain. You know, we always talk about go with your gut and there could be some kind of intuitive truth to that more than we think. So how do all of these other aspects of our bodies besides just the brain help us understand the communication? And Diane, Dr. Diane, do you have any thoughts on that too? So

Well, yeah, I mean, we have a neural net in our gut, so it's not just that. And most of the serotonin for the brain actually comes from the gut. But what the research suggests is that actually the heart and the mind need to work together. So that when you have the brain,

the best sort of telepathic connection, it's when they're also in a really good, loving space, feeling that sense of connection, not just a cold distance sort of way of being. So it's bringing those together, working together, it seems to magnify the signal as well.

Dr. Yu, any thoughts on that? How does that heart and the magnetic fields of other organs affect what's going on here on a physics level? Yeah, from a physics level, so every single particle who made up the cell

and who make up the DNA. So they are charged particles. And so whenever charged particle, if ever any type of charged particle in motion, it would create the electromagnetic waves. Charged particle in motion

will create oscillation waves transmitting. So now you are talking about receiving. So I want to think about it, if the similar parts, if you have a similar resonancy frequency, so if there's a receiving, yeah, a transmitting wave comes exactly resonant with your receiving frequency. So I believe that part will have a reaction.

would have a reaction. I'm not sure if that's called a consciousness reaction or just say electromagnetic interaction. Does that signal go back to the brain? Probably have a signal. No, I have some kind of motion there. I don't know if they can detect the meaning of the pain or some kind of meaning through that signal. I'm not sure. Yeah.

Dr. Diane, I wanted to ask you, you know, when you see these examples in the podcast series, they all seem very positive and affirming of people. Do you ever, I mean, not necessarily, maybe not just limiting to these nonverbal autistic children, but in general, do you see people using their telepathic powers for negative or cynical purposes? Or do they tend to correspond with that loving, warm state you were describing earlier?

Well, I would say that the individuals, certainly the ones that I study, are coming from a place where they're really very loving, highly evolved people on a spiritual basis. And so I think

They describe, you know, having, you know, all kinds of, you know, spiritual experiences as well, you know, and so they're, so it's not just about the telepathy. I mean, they describe seeing angels, for example, and, you know, whether or not they're actually seeing angels. I mean, it's, you know, it's, that's their reality they're living in, you know, so, and, you know, and it may be that,

what it is is that they're just picking up on an energy that is just a really, really, really positive energy. And, you know, and, and then they, you know, and they label that an angel, but so, so that's my experience, but it doesn't mean that everybody,

Everybody who has some kind of telepathy is like these children. You mentioned children a lot. Is there a difference with nonverbal autistic adults that maybe they lose that effect? Why weren't they studied? One of the reasons why I focused on children in the beginning was because of another thing, and that is that

As I mentioned, I was using dreaming sleep and the brain functionality during dreaming sleep to inform me as to what would be the brain functionality in somebody who's waking. And another thing that happens during dreaming sleep is that the frontal lobe shut down. And in a child, the frontal lobe is not fully hooked up to the rest of the brain. It's not fully myelinated. So you have less of that inhibition from the frontal lobes to the rest of the brain. Mm-hmm.

You know, when, you know, one of the reasons why you see, you know, poor impulse control in people with who are young children, for example, and even in these autistic communities.

individuals, it's because their frontal lobes are not as fully developed. And so it's just harder for them to exhibit that. ADD is another example where the frontal lobes are not fully inhibiting the rest of the brain. And so, but by the time you've gone through puberty, then that's changed and your frontal lobes are generally well connected. And so I wanted to focus on children to

to maximize the chances of having that high psychic ability. But with a lot of the individuals that I refer to as children in my research, they're really not children in the sense that they're not under the age of 18. I use the word children mainly because they're a child of the person they're telepathic with. Have you studied the magnetic field

fields or telepathic perceptions of people with their pets. That's something that I've studied at Rupert Sheldrake's works. You know, he's talked about his, you know, study with researchers like a pet, a pet parrot that was very precocious and would

interact with the dreams of their owner while their owner was sleeping and they'd see you know or you know would say words related to things on the television that were far away you know it's like pictures of a certain scene while the credits are going the birds in the whole other room the second floor and is saying words related to what the pet owner and his family are observing that they're just impossible for them to see that so

Have you looked into that, and how does that connect with this phenomenon? Well, yeah, I'm very familiar with Rupert's work. In fact, he became interested in telepathy because a professor at Cambridge, where he was, told him about an experiment that he had engaged in with an ophthalmologist of a blind boy who couldn't read the eye chart properly,

unless his mother was there. And then the ophthalmologist realized that this kid was telepathic with the mother and did experiments even at a distance from the mother. And it just blew Rupert away. And so he decided to study telepathy, but I mean, he's not a medical doctor like me, so he didn't have access to children to work with, but he started working with animals and

I think that telepathy is actually a, I think that it is an ability to access sort of the mind of another member of our species or even of a different species that really exists probably across the animal kingdom.

as a natural way of being. I think that we're probably all born with shared consciousness and that as we go through that stage at around the age of one and a half or two,

where we really start to identify individuation separation stage is what it is in Piaget. When we start to really identify with, you know, that we're a separate individual from our mother, let's say, and identify with the body as ourself. Once we've gone through that stage, then, you know, we start to lose that ability. But these autistic individuals lose their language skills

during, you know, right during that time period. They regress, right, when they're, you know, between the ages of one and two. And so they never develop this, you know, this way of communicating. And I think that they're just using what's an innate default mechanism that actually, that shared consciousness actually plays a role in the acquisition of language.

And then it goes underground. And so, yeah, anyway, but, you know, and evolutionarily, you know, often we do, you know, we do go through the same evolutionary steps that animals go through. Well, it begs the question, then, what would be the evolutionary advantage to, one, the species at large, and the human species at least, discarding that seemingly superior form of communication and knowing?

for these seemingly inferior methods of sight, sound, and hearing, and so forth, and language. What's the evolutionary advantage of doing that? There isn't an evolutionary advantage to it. I mean, I think that we have paid a huge price. Here's what I think happened, is that I think that language is a technology. It's a tool. It's a technology. And so what happened is, initially, it was like an adjunct.

And then over time, it got corrupted because people saw that they could use it to their own advantage. And I mean, just like, I mean, so many technologies get corrupted. You know, they start off with a, you know, that they're a positive thing. And that's why they're created and introduced. But then over time...

there's a corruption where something gets misused. And so I think that's... So now it's backfiring on us. Very interesting. So it's almost as if it genetically has been lost a little bit, that sensory awareness? Yeah, but I think it's starting to come back. I think that what's happening is that we're...

We're becoming less, we're going to be less and less and less so imbalanced towards the left hemisphere because what's happening is that now our computers are

they can do a lot of those left hemisphere tasks for us. Right. I mean, you know, and, and how often are people reading anymore? They're, they're more interested in videos. And so, so taking in a video is more of a, you know, that's more of a right hemisphere thing. Um, and, um,

And then, you know, gestalt thinking, that intuitive thinking, that's what we need now. That's how we're going to solve the problems that we have now is through developing that and not being so caught up in, you know, the kind of endless sort of thinking that, you

you know, keeps us locked into, you know, this narrative that doesn't really advance us the way that we need to advance right now. Yeah, fascinating. What do you think of these things? Do you have anything else you want to ask? It's a fantastic topic.

But I think I learned quite a bit of importance is how it related to the Sherman frequency. That's the energy. That's the energy input. And it excited a similar frequency. So that's why you can propagate, have a stronger signal, enhance signals, get better. Okay, so that's a very, very good point. I think I learned a lesson from it.

Well, what do folks need to do to tap into those innate powers? Or is it too late for us folks that are so left brain hijacked and ideologically captured by concept thinking? Oh, no, it's not too late. No, no, no, no, no, it's not too late at all. I mean, you know, we are...

I mean, we're constantly evolving. You know, our brains are very plastic. And a lot of people have developed the ability through training. I mean, a lot of people didn't even think they could.

had any ability surprise themselves and so um i mean it's uh there's too much to it to try to say in a you know in a soundbite you know it's something that i'm going to be offering a course on intuition uh because i think that a lot of people really um they see the benefit of being able to tap into it wow i mean it seems like we're on the cusp of really moving into a different state of human awareness and society can maybe really progress alongside it if if

Some of these things can be done and thought about seriously. And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to have this dialogue today with you both who have been quite helpful to allow, you know, physics has tended to be what I call the holy of holies of scientism.

And it's like, don't touch that. It's rarefied. Don't touch it because it has world destroying powers with nuclear technology. So everybody kind of at the turn of the world war two, you know, they kind of sealed that off. And I feel that physics needs to be a little bit more free and able to interact with these, uh, uh, so-called anomalies and alternative ideas to help facilitate the paradigm shift to take place, you know, because, uh,

You can't allow these things to be boxed off forever and isolated, you know? Yeah. Well, I appreciate you guys both for coming on. Do you have a copy of the book you could share for us, Dr. Powell? A picture, a copy of it near you? Otherwise, I'll just, we can put a link to it, but it's The ESP Enigma, The Scientific Case for Psychic Phenomena.

by Diane Hennessy Powell, MD. And that's available. You can get it right now at drdianehennessey.com. And anything else you'd like to leave us with or point us to? Well, I'm going to be doing some speaking, you know, public speaking this year. I'm going to be speaking at the Confluence Festival in Texas and

in early May, and then Contact in the Desert in late May, early June. And then at the IANDS, which is the Institute for Studying Near-Death Experiences in Chicago. So that's going to be in August. So I'm going to be doing a lot of public speaking.

Has your work, since you've been faithful in this field for so long, have you changed your worldview about anything having gone through your work to where you are now? Oh, everything has flipped upside down. It hasn't been all at once. It's been one aspect of the paradigm after another that has shifted. I'm interested in

Trying to get to the truth. I mean, you know, that's what, as a scientist, really, to me, that's what you do is you're really trying to make sense of things. And if, you know, if the data doesn't fit the theory, then you throw the theory out. You don't throw the data out. Right. Well, very good. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Thank you for sharing your insight, your knowledge.

Have a great day. Maybe we'll do a follow-up and do some more things about consciousness in the future, but I think this was a good first start, so thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. ... ... ... ...