Okay, Russell, so I was hoping we could pretend or act as if this is a business coaching session. You have people rocking up to your office for consults and stuff, people in your mastermind. So if I rocked up as like a new client or something, how would a business coaching session with you, like what would that look like? What would it look like? How do we start? It depends if we just met. If we just met, like I try to figure out what in the world do you do. So I kind of know what you do, which helps a lot, but I guess the biggest question is like what –

Like there's always a gap to where you are and we want to be like, what's that gap? What's it look like? Cause I know where you're at right now, where are you trying to get to? And then we can kind of figure out what's missing. Okay. So last year we did about $5.5 million in revenue. We're operating at about like 55, 60% growth, operating profit, pre-tax, whatever EBITDA, whatever the number that is. Um,

And that's cool. What percentage was it? Like 55, 60, something like that. And what I would love to do in the game of entrepreneurship is to go from 5 million to 10 million and also ideally try and dissociate the business revenue from me having to show up and continuously film YouTube videos. So I guess those are our two main things. Grow revenue, but do it in a way that doesn't necessarily require...

allows me to take a month off without the business then tanking. Yeah, for sure. Where's the revenue breakdown? Like course sales versus other stuff versus what's the, where's the revenue of that $5 million come from? Yep, nice. So about $2 million-ish is from our content, which is sort of AdSense on YouTube videos and sponsorships. And the other $3 million-ish is from course sales. And so last year, the only course we had was our part-time YouTuber Academy, which is just a single product.

uh we were we were doing that as a live cohort for about three years and then last year we switched it to evergreen we did a final cohort did a big launch to two million for that launch which was nice and so we have that as a thousand dollar self-paced course now and we also have a 5k a year kind of coaching program for youtubers our youtuber accelerator where um my team gives people one-on-one support for growing their channels uh

We think 5K for 12 months is probably way too cheap given how much of a nightmare it is to fulfill on that. So we're now thinking of turning that into... And other people charge for something similar. Yeah. Because we were feeling like, oh, we need to give so much value. And then we're like, oh, crap. We've sort of signed ourselves up for this 12-month thing. So we're thinking of turning that into like 5K for three months, which feels a bit more reasonable. We're thinking of turning our YouTuber self-paced course into a $1,000 a year community membership type thing. We're thinking of maybe adding a $300 product.

But then a month ago, we created a new value ladder for productivity, which is the thing that I'm known for. It was a bit accidental that we ended up making all this money from YouTube because I'm not known for the guy who teaches people how to grow on YouTube. That's not my shtick. My shtick is how to be more productive. So we launched Productivity Lab, which is $1,000 a year membership community. And we sold 500 spots within 48 hours and we capped it at 500.

And that's been going for a month now and people love it and it's great. And so we really want to scale that up, but without like diluting the quality of the community by having too many people in it. We're thinking maybe adding like a one-on-one productivity coaching offer on the backend and maybe a sort of $300 course above sort of at the top of the value ladder as a way of getting people in.

So I just threw a lot of that at you. I don't know if any of that makes sense. - 100%. - Yeah. - Now, right now, so basically each of those you sold during a launch, right? So you did a launch, you get something that you send emails, you're creating videos specifically for it, and then anything else is happening when you're launching those? - Yeah, so we launched, we start by building a wait list by funneling traffic from socials and from YouTube occasionally and from my newsletter into this wait list. We build up a wait list and then we do like a launch sequence, like 10 to 15 days worth of emails.

to that wait list. And then that's how we do the launches when we were doing launches for our YouTuber Academy and when we did the launch for Productivity Lab. But where I'd love to get to, and I'd love to get your take on this, is for me, like launches are quite a stressful way to run a business. And when we were running live cohorts for our YouTuber Academy three times a year, it was a real like,

fingers crossed like this one week where we can get sales out of like a four month period like let's hope we make enough money um and that feels kind of stressful so i'd love for it for the revenue to be a little bit more like chill a little bit more recurring yeah which is why we like the idea of turning youtuber academy into evergreen self-paced course yeah the launch the launch game like people live or die by it because it's like sometimes they hit a launch they get you know three five million dollars in sales then a year later they just launch again and this time it hits a hundred thousand dollars in sales and like

But they built up thinking it's going to be as big as, you know, all that kind of stuff. We had exactly that. It stresses me out. During the pandemic, the course completely like printed cash. Straight after the pandemic, it stopped printing cash. And we were like, uh-oh, all of our projections were based on this continuing to print cash. Money does not grow in trees. This is kind of bad. So I want to avoid that kind of state of affairs. So right now, if you're not doing a launch, those sales aren't coming in. Is there evergreen kind of working now? Yeah. So we have one evergreen product. Okay. So we have a – actually, if I draw it out, it might be easier. Yeah.

So we kind of have nice, oh, my stick pens. So we have our sort of YouTube value and we have our sort of productivity stuff. So on the YouTube, we have a $1 self-paced course, which upsells people into a 1K self-paced course, which in theory gets people to apply for the 5K 12-month program. But we- You can say apply, so you can call them on the phone to sell it or what's the process? Yeah, we had a sales guy. So they would apply and then the sales guy would go and call with them and then if they were the right fit-

Great. We've closed sales for this right now because we want to revamp the offer because it was a bit much. This is a dollar just for? Oh, it's like a YouTube for beginners course. So roughly we get like maybe, I don't know, 200 sales a week of this, 200 per week. And roughly 4% of people take the upsell to the $1,000 product. And overall of the $1,000 product, we get like 20 to 30 sales per week.

So this is doing like 20k a week, but I'd love... And this is just evergreen coming through? This is evergreen, and this is currently closed because we are trying to figure out what to do with it. And then this is only... Is this like they buy this and it's like an upsell in funnel, or is this happening? Is there some other mechanism that you're selling this out? Oh, yeah. So they could either buy this directly. There is a $27 order bump, thank you for that idea, of which maybe 30% of people take that.

And then also they could just buy this directly. So a handful of sales each week trickle in from the upsell, but a bunch of sales come in directly from them just landing on the thing. Because this is really aimed at complete beginners. This is how to get your first two videos out there. Whereas this is more like the whole shebang, like everything about growing on YouTube. Yeah.

Okay. And then do you sell this through a webinar or just a VSL or? A landing page. A really, really long landing page that really needs to be shorter. But that's the only way we sell this. It's long. Like is it copy based or video based? Like what's on the landing page? There is a video at the top, but then there's shit tons of copy. Yeah. Why do you want to make it shorter? Um,

I don't know. It just feels like it's a bit too long. Actually, interestingly, our conversion rate on this landing page is about 0.4%. 0.4% conversion rate on this landing page. So from person visiting landing page to sales by 0.4%, which feels a bit low because it's mostly organic. I mean, we started doing paid a couple of months ago and I actually don't know what the conversion rate is of like paid versus organic. So that's actually something to think about. P versus O. And then...

are people like the organic side is it you have videos specifically promoting this or every video like in description your person is or what's yeah that's the good idea yeah good point so we have every video promoting this thing but also i have a handful of videos on my channel that are like how to grow on youtube those get evergreen traffic and i casually mentioned oh by the way i've got a course and i think people are clicking on those although and we have utm tracking but i haven't looked at it in a while so that's a good point cool

Okay. I understand that. You understand this. And then on this end, we basically have this 1K per year kind of community membership type thing, which we launched last month. The idea behind this is that it's like Peloton for productivity. So every day there's like Zoom co-working sessions. Every week we're doing facilitated weekly planning. Every month there's a session. Every quarter I do a quarterly webinar to plan your next quarter. We want to do in-person events and everything. And all of this is 1K a year. And at the moment we've got 500 people in this.

We've been doing it for a month. They're all really happy. And we'd love to scale this value ladder and also this one to get us to this goal of 10 million in a way that doesn't require me to always be showing up in videos. And the revenue from this versus this, this is... This did about 3 million last year. Okay. And this so far has done, well, 500K. Oh, yeah. 500K a year.

Cool. Which one are you more passionate about? This one. Really? Interesting. I love talking about productivity. I no longer love talking about YouTube.

This is our YouTuber Academy. And so I'd kind of love to get to the point where, like, to be honest, like my team is now more YouTube experts than I am. I just like, it's so systemized. I just rock up and do my thing. And so my YouTube producer is like an actual expert on how to grow on YouTube. And so I want him to be doing like mini courses and webinars and stuff within the YouTuber Academy because he's like boots on the ground. Our editors are freaking amazing. And so I want them to be doing stuff.

I don't know anything about video editing anymore. So it's like, yeah. Whereas this productivity is kind of my jam. This is what I enjoy. Was it hard to sell the $1,000 a year thing? Yeah, so we had a wait list of like 30,000 people. So they signed up before they knew what the price point was. And we did some post signup segmentation and found like 70% of them

were making under two grand a month so they wouldn't qualify for the product anyway um but no we sold 500 within two days and within the first like 10 minutes we got like half the spot sold so it seemed like there was a lot of demand for this offer but also my whole shtick is productivity we've got like 5.5 million subscribers for productivity and this was the first time we've released a product other than my book uh which is about productivity so yeah very cool did you close down signups for that or just yeah this is not closed yeah

And we're building a wait list. We've now got 50,000 on the wait list for this. But again, our post-thingy segmentation is a bit dodged. So I don't exactly know how many of them would actually qualify to buy this product. MARK MANDEL: And you make them qualify by how much money they make or by what?

One of the questions is how much money do you make? And that's helpful. Do you only sell to people who qualify or do you sell to anybody? We sell to anyone, but it's more like... Because it's a low-friction sale. They can just sign up. But I'm assuming that if someone makes less than 2K a month, they're not going to buy this. You'd be blown away. Really? 100%. I'm also assuming that if they're outside of the US, the UK, and Europe, they're also not going to buy the thing. Which kind of broadly holds true. Like 70% of our customers are US. Average age is 38. Yeah.

So they all have jobs slash are entrepreneurs. Yeah. I'm going to tell you a funny story about Hermosi. So when Hermosi shifted from going out and doing gym launches for people, he started selling the license to his product. The very first phone sale he did, he sold it for $6,000. And the guy was like, done. And he's like, oh. So then the next call, he's like, uh.

It's 8K. And the guy's like, done. He's like, oh. So the next guy is like 10. He kept going up until eventually it landed. I think it was like $36,000 a year to sign up. But the crazy is the average gym owner only takes home $25,000 a year. So they were paying more than their yearly take home for this thing because they believed it was going to help them to make more. So anyway, just from a pricing standpoint, people will buy what they want, not what they necessarily can afford or need. Anyway, but...

And price elasticity is huge, especially on something like this, where if you have someone launch a YouTube channel, how much money a year could or should they be making off of a YouTube channel? Oh, if it's big, then stupid numbers. But for an average person, like someone who's like, the person who's coming in here and starting, what do you think year one...

Like nothing. I think for beginners to YouTube, YouTube is not a make money scheme. It's only a make money scheme for a very small number of people. Most people... Is it a make money thing? No. It's positioned as a will save you time on the journey of growing a YouTube channel. Maybe you'll make money, maybe you won't, but I guarantee in two years, if you do it every week, it'll change your life. That's our whole pitch. And our most common customer...

is the 38-year-old accountant who always wanted to start a YouTube channel because she has a passion for knitting and wants to share that and doesn't really care about making money from it. And of course, if she made money from it, it's a bonus. So that's about 70%. They just want to talk. Yeah, they just love it. And the 30% is like, I'm an entrepreneur. I've got an offer. I want leads. Help me out. We also sort of...

In the background, we're trying to do like a 10K a month thing, which is sort of done for you videos where we have, I think your friend Ryan Dice as one of, as our first client. Oh, cool. So we're working with him to try and do done for you for his YouTube channel. Like he is filming, editing or just editing? So he's, he's filming the stuff and then we're doing all the editing, the titles, the thumbnails, the whole shebang. So one of my team members is sort of leading on this and trying to grow this as a mini agency.

Yeah, that's really cool. That's a bit of an experimental one. You see if you like that business. Yeah, we'll see how it goes. Okay, awesome. So with any business, there's like a thousand things you could do. So I was looking at like if this was mine and if I was to say I bought this company from you tomorrow, what would be the first thing I would do? And so I think the...

I mean, I think I would focus here first because there's bigger revenue. And I feel like also right here, you're not ready to turn this into 5,000 people, right? Because you said you were nervous about just the fulfillment and keeping the community. Yeah. You ever think you want to make more money, but you want to keep the community small. It's like, yeah, I want to. It's weird. I know. Yeah. So I want more people to come into this, but I don't want the experience to be diluted. Mm-hmm.

We're trying to figure out ways to do this. Like, do we do quarterly launches where I do a quarterly planning webinar and then we do like a 90-day cohort so that then they're in a smaller group of people and so they feel as if they're part of a small group. We're thinking of splitting them up into like Harry Potter houses within that. So there's another smaller group. And so if we can nail how do we...

cut this community into smaller groups that they feel that personal connection in, then this can really scale. We haven't nailed that yet, so we're still experimenting. Our next cohort for this is launching next month, and so we're going to let in a couple hundred more people and experiment with this 90-day model and just figure out how do we get this to scale without it ruining the experience. Is there progression over time inside of here? For your programs, they're trying to get to this level, and they

Is there progression in it or is it more circular? So the idea, the promise is we'll help you double your productivity. And so they do a survey at the start and a survey at the end. And actually, we're actually pretty close to doubling people's productivity, doubling in just a month, which is kind of nice. But it's sort of like, it's not like it's going to take your business from 10K to 100K. It's more like...

Hey, these are just generally useful habits where every day you rock up and do some deep work. Every week you do a weekly review. And it's just a thing that keeps on going. But is there stuff where like...

The reason I'm asking is like, I don't want to solve this problem if there's like a progression. If I, okay, someone comes into this and they're going to go through this and then they're going to graduate or get a certificate or something, right? They've accomplished this. Now they're going to move to the next step. And like, there's milestones. Is there milestones that someone can progress through? Or is it more circular? It's just like, you keep doing the same thing. It's more circular. It's more like CrossFit, like exercise classes. Yes, you could go to the, I mean, ultimately, fundamentally, you keep showing up to the exercise classes to stay in shape. Okay. Into that sort of idea, but for productivity. Gotcha. Okay.

Okay. There's probably some version. Because my biggest fear on this one for you is like, I've noticed with people, if there's subconscious blocks in growing something, they won't grow it. And so right now you have a subconscious block because you don't want to mess up the community. And so for you to go from 500 to 5,000 members would not be hard technically. Subconsciously, you're going to fight it because you're like, you know what I mean? Interesting. Yeah.

Yeah, usually it's almost always psychology that keeps people back. It's very rarely tactics. Okay. So that'd be the thing is like, I think if you can fix that problem, then that one will open up. Yep. So like the way, again, I don't know the answer, but like we're doing this right now in our certification program because we had the same thing where people were coming in and all of a sudden, we're selling it throughout the year. So you come in and you have someone who's been going through the program. They're a great funnel builder, doing all sorts of stuff. But then the problem is like,

brand new person comes in and they're asking questions and the person who's been doing this for a year and a half is like annoyed by this whole thing. And so we were restructuring ours and it's really, really cool. But it's based on there's, there's modules and milestones, right? So I look at a timeline here where it's like you come in and then this is the first milestone. So in our world, it's like you make your first,

First 10K as a funnel builder. Then the next milestone is 50K and there's 100K and then there's a million, right? So there's these goals we're moving towards. And inside there, there's these little badges people have to do to get the next goal. Nice. And what's cool about this is we have a process where it's like when you first come in, you have –

you as like the, you know, or me, like the guru teaching, but then internally there's mentors. So people who are past the 10,000 mark, they're like part of their role to get to here is like to become mentors. So they're coming in and instead of being annoyed, like, oh, this person's a beginner. They're like, hey, I'm going to mentor. So they help get somebody to this spot. And as soon as you get to the spot, then you get the new mentors who have been here, but then you also become a mentee for people who are behind you. So now there's like, they're always there.

That's cool. They're moving towards but also pulling back. And then what's cool is then they can keep dumping people in here and they're going through this. And when someone's on a call or question, you're like, oh, well, I'm on level three right now. I'm level four. Then they know exactly where they're at. And then you or the people know how to help them. Like, oh, I was stuck level three too. The biggest problem is you got to figure out how to do blah, you know, and help smooth the progression. So this gives you the ability where you can have 5,000 people and it doesn't get overwhelming for the community if you can figure out some version of this for years. I don't know exactly what it would look like, but.

Nice. Until you're pumped about getting 5,000 people in there, it's going to be hard for you to get more than that. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because right now, if we 10x it overnight, I'd be like, oh my... Uh-oh. Your subconscious mind will definitely burn that to the ground before it lets you get there. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So once we nail... Yeah. Nice. Something like this. Milestones, small group experience, something like that. At the point where I feel like, hell yeah, we can scale this to 5,000. Then it becomes a lot easier to do. Yeah. Because it's not...

Yeah, there's always like, it's either a math problem or a drama problem. A math problem or what? A math problem or a drama problem. A math problem can be solved with like, okay, we just create a funnel, drive some math, you know, that's easy. The drama problem, it's not real, but it's in our heads and that'll sabotage us solving the math problem because we're like, ah, you know what I mean? So that'd be like, solve that, then we can talk about the funnels there. This one, I feel like,

This seems like it's all in place where if you went to 200 a week, you wouldn't stress out. No, I would love that. Yeah, you'd be fine. So this is the easier one to solve right now because it's just math problem versus this is a drama problem. Interesting. That's fun. I'm going to label this. This is great. I have never heard of this framing of it before, but that's cool. So this is math and this is drama. Solve the drama, then we'll do the math. That'll be it. Yeah. I got it from Brooke Castillo, who's the greatest life coach of all time. She came to our audience and started talking about either math or drama. And it's funny because

We did a whole Q&A and people stuck. And every time they come in, it's like, okay, before I answer this, is this a math problem or a drama problem? And they're like, it's drama. Okay, let's just solve that because it's not real. It's just psychology versus like actually solving it. That's really, really good. So, okay, so then they go back like, okay, the math problem we got to solve is just this because everything else is all, you know, you got to raise this to like 15K or something, but that's...

The biggest thing is like this is the bottleneck that if you fix that, because if you get 20, 30 a week organically off of 0.4% conversion rate, yeah, if you fix this piece, that becomes 200 weeks not hard because you're going to still get the organic and then it gives you the ability to try on ads. So I wish I could see this page. So this page right now,

I'm assuming you're saying it's a video sales letter of you selling it? Yep. And then long form? How long is the page, do you think? Like tens of thousands of words. This episode of Deep Dive is very kindly sponsored by YNAB, which stands for You Need a Budget. Now, for many people, money is a cause of guilt and anxiety. You're never entirely sure where all your money goes, and you're left feeling guilty about purchases, big or small. Money is often associated with restriction, fear, and uncertainty.

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Microsoft's Hotjar equivalent, whatever it's called, found out what areas the heat map are like more. It's like, OK, cool. Some of the testimonials are outdated, and the growth graphs that we have are outdated. So there's basic things that we can do to tweak that. Yeah. So the bigger thing is, I'm sure there's ways you optimize this. Usually optimization, you go from 0.4 to 0.6 or something. So it's not like a radical shift.

The radical shift is like shifting the funnel the way you're actually selling it. Because selling a $1,000 offer through a video sales that are long for a page is like a less, it's a tool, but it's not the most effective tool. Oh, okay. What do you mean? So shifting the tool is how you do it. Like for me to sell a $1,000 course, there's two tools that are like the best in the world to sell a $1,000 course. And one is a webinar, one's a challenge.

So it's shifting the tool. Because on a webinar, if you get people on a webinar and they watch the presentation, if you do a good webinar, 10% of people who come to the webinar will buy it.

So it's just, it changes the math of it all, right? And are we talking like live or are we talking about fake live? The very first time is live and I do it live a few times until you master the pitch and then you transition. So for example, I launched ClickFunnels. The very first, we tried six different times to launch ClickFunnels and I was trying sales letters. I was trying the wrong, the tools that work but not well. And I was trying things and then I

like four or five months into ClickFunnels, I got asked to speak at an event and all the older versions I was selling just like a trial, like sign up for a trial and it was costing us like two or three hundred bucks to get someone to sign up for a trial. It was just like,

It wasn't working, right? So my friend's like, hey, come speak at my event. I want you to speak. And then at the end of your presentation, I want you to sell ClickFunnels. I was like, nobody's buying ClickFunnels. He's like, well, make a $1,000 version that you can bundle it together and then make an offer. So I spoke at his event, did the webinar, and in a room of 300 people, we signed up like 100 and something people. I was just like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.

So I did the webinar. It wasn't webinars. It was on stage. But I did the presentation and it crushed. And what was interesting is when I was leaving the hotel to go fly home, I was in the lobby and there was this lady around to me. She's like, oh, your presentation was awesome. She's like, the problem is like,

I'm a coach and so I can't use ClickFunnels. I was like, "What do you mean?" She's like, "Well, during your presentation you showed how you use Funnels to build a supplement company, but I don't have a supplement company. I'm a coach and I can't use ClickFunnels." I was like, "I have coaching funnels too. This works for coaches too." She's like, "Are you serious?" She had no idea. She ran back into the event room. It was still going on another day. She grabbed one of her friends. They grabbed an order forms. They came out. Both of them handed me an order form. We had no idea this would work for coaches. I thought it was just for supplement people. I was like, "Oh my gosh. I need to mention the fact."

So on the flight home, I take my presentation and I added in like two or three slides like, hey, if you're a coach, this is how it works. And if you're a, you know, if you're, this is how it works. So I could tweak the webinar a little bit. So then when I got back home,

I started lining up webinars to start doing more of these webinars. And I remember the very first day back, I had two webinars lined up. So I did a webinar in the morning. I think I had like 600 people register for it. Did the webinar and we did like $30,000 in sales off the webinar, which is not bad. I was like, this is pretty good. But then before the next webinar happened, I had another webinar that night that had about the same amount of people registered. And my...

my business partner Todd, he went and he exported all the questions from the first webinar. And he was like, "Hey, just so you know, at minute 12, "everyone's asking this question, they're confused." I was like, "Oh, I looked at my slides, "so I just resolved that, I added it." And then he's like, "Over here, they were confused." So we found all the sticking spots,

And so I found all those things. And the offer, they were confused about the offer. So we tweaked that a little bit. We changed some stuff. And then I did a webinar, same size audience. And that time we did over $100,000 in sales. And I was like, dang. So then after that, then Todd exported the questions again. And we did that 70 times. 70? 70 webinars. Whoa. To the point where it got so good, like I can do the webinar by memory now. But like every concern before it came up, I was able to resolve it. Like if you watch it, it was just like you had to buy it.

And so long-term, definitely evergreen it. But short-term, you got to do it at least three or four times to go through that process and just figure out what those things are. Because the first time, you never know until, but the audience will tell you exactly where they're confused. People are, yeah. So for me, that's what I would do first. I would like, let's create a webinar. It's still in the styles of our course. Let's do a live one to your audience. Yep.

We test it. In fact, I literally just did this right now. Last week, I bought salesfunnels.com. So we did a webinar there. We had 10,000 people register, did the webinar, found the mistakes, tweaked it all, and then that was last Thursday. So today, I'm doing it again. We've got 4,500 people registered for today. I'm going to do it again, and then we're going to tweak it again. And I'm going to do that three or four times, and then now that it's

Then we'll have the evergreen version. Then we'll turn it on. And then we'll have 30,000, 40,000 people want to watch that webinar for the next two or three years. We just keep driving traffic and it's just crushing thousands of sales. So the ads are getting people to the webinar and then you're just sort of measuring the effectiveness of... Yep. And that's figured out your... And you figure out, okay, it's going to cost me, you know...

to get someone to register for the webinar. From there, we get 30% show up rate and 30% show up rate. We get 10% to buy and the follow-up sequence usually will double the sales and so you just look at the math on that and say, okay, cool. Right now, we spend $10,000 a week and we make $30,000. So then you start...

then go to $10,000 $100,000 a week make $300,000 go to a million a week it was just just ramping up the equation just like a slot machine at that point you like put money in you get it back out damn but that's the magic for this like that's the best way to sell this is creating a webinar and just doing it three or four times once you're an audience once it's cold ads once it's traffic and you perfect it and then now you evergreen it and then moving forward like that thing's just selling for you 24 hours a day seven days a week dude that's sick

Can I do webinars on ClickFunnels? 100%. Sick. Yes. Perfect. You better do them in ClickFunnels. They don't work anywhere else. Okay. Talk to me about challenge. How does challenge work? So challenges are very similar to webinars. Webinars, like traditionally, it's like a 90-minute presentation. So everything's coming. You register, 90-minute presentation. You make an offer, make this offer at the end of it, and then there's a whole follow-up sequence and all this stuff. Challenge is like, traditionally, people would do a three-day challenge or a five-day challenge. It's the same script as the webinar, but it's broken. Instead of,

If you look at my webinar script, it's basically, this is the clock. So this is an hour. So I'm going to do, I break it down into four quarters. There's four things you teach during the webinar to break false beliefs to get them to want to buy. And then the second half,

You're going to do 30 minutes, which is like your pitch, right? And so it's a 90-minute presentation. With the challenge, it's the same structure, but it's broken up by day. So day number one, you do basically this part and this part. Day number two, you're doing this part. Day number three, you do this. And day number four is this. It's just kind of broken up longer for them. So...

It's nice for educators because you get to teach. Here I'm 15 minutes talking about this. Here you got an hour or hour and a half to get more teaching time. You get more time in front of people. The challenges were great. The only downside of challenges is like, I don't know, doing a five-day challenge five or six times to perfect it is a lot of work. And it's harder to ever green a challenge just because there's more break-off points, right? Like,

There's people registering and people show up on day one but not day two. There's more breakage points. Whereas here, I try to max. I'm a webinar guy. I love webinars. I can maximize some people showing up and selling. I can control this and tweak this a lot easier than a challenge. We have

people in our community who just kill challenges. So they're both good tools. It just kind of depends on the style you like better. That's very interesting. And if we turn this into a 1K for 12 months type offer where you get access to the community as well and events and stuff, say the same thing. Like webinar is better to sell a 1K product. 100%. Yeah, at that price point, like, yeah, selling a $1,000 offer off of just a straight sales page is very hard. Like one of the hardest...

So, 0.4% is not bad on a $1,000 offer. That's not bad at all. Okay, cool. Yeah, because the conversion rate on this one is like 20% because it's a $1 product. And I'm like, 0.4%? I heard industry average was 1%. Surely we can double it. That's not a $1,000 offer, though. But then the other thing that's cool is someone registers for webinar and they go through. So, if you look at my webinar sequence, so the way I do it is we start the sequence over every week. So, there's Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Friday.

And so this is the sequence, right? So what we do is we buy ads Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and half a day Thursday. And then Thursday, I usually perform my webinar.

It doesn't have to be Thursday. It can be Wednesday. For me, for my audience, my time, I found that's been the best time for me. And then that's done. And then what happens on Friday, then you give them a replay. Saturday, then what I try to do is I try to think about different modalities. Everyone consumes things different ways. Some people like to watch YouTube videos. Some people like podcasts. Some people like to read. So I'm trying to give them different modalities because some people are going to show up live. Some people will never show up live. So you might get

to 30% who actually show up live. I mean, 70% didn't, right? So then I'm charging those other 70%, like give them to watch a replay because they want it, they just want it on their time schedule, right? So then they have a day or so to kind of, to go through and like watch it here on Friday. Then on Saturday, I start shifting, okay, what are the modalities? I'm like, oh, the way we position is like, those people

those who didn't have time to actually watch the webinar, I got a Clip Notes version of the webinar. You could actually read the whole thing. And I'll send them to this page right here. So this becomes like, this is the Clip Notes of the webinar. So they can watch the shorter video, read it all. And so what happens is you start picking up a lot of people here. But most of them already went through the sequence. So the conversions will go up no matter what because there's so much pre-framing that happened here and here. Then you get people to read it. So there's different modality people who buy here. And then usually Saturday and Sunday, this is where we try to bring in urgency. Yeah.

than even Monday. And so what happens here is then we have urgency and scarcity. So basically it's like this campaign shuts down Monday at midnight. And so you got to Monday to decide to go all in.

So it goes down there, and then Monday at midnight, the offer closes down for everyone in this cohort. And so if they click on the links after midnight, it redirects them back to the registration page. They can go re-register, but it starts the whole sequence over. But it does close down. I can't buy anymore. And then Monday, we start back over. New ads, new funnel, start driving traffic, and then just keep going through. Bloody hell. And so can people then buy this evergreen? Oh, okay. So they can, but also...

but it's because people always say like why do you close it on the card if they can still buy it I'm like they can like it closes down like this sequence like the sequence closes down and the offer disappears like you can't buy it through this funnel if they want to go they can go find this page they can buy it or they can go re-register and go through the whole sequence again but it's legitimate urgency and scarcity that we close this down at midnight where it's like you can't

You can't buy it. So this happened last week we did the webinar. We had 10,000 people register. As soon as Thursday started, we turned off the registration page for the next week. Boom. And so what's been happening is last week, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, people are still registering from the ad. So we had 4,000 people that lined up for today. And then we'll hit that one. And so today, they flipped to the registration page. And it just keeps rolling and keeps rolling. Wow. That's so cool. Yeah. And then...

Do you connect these up to your CRM through ClickFunnels and stuff as well? Yeah, ClickFunnels is a CRM. Oh, it is? Oh, fine. We're in everything with ClickFunnels, yeah. Nice. That's so cool. And that's kind of it. And then, like I said, you can still do YouTube videos and push to like, hey, go watch my web class about whatever, which is great. That's kind of a nice pitch because it's like a free thing. Yeah. And then from an ad standpoint, putting webinars on ads is...

The best way we do it. Like, we can... Of all the things we drive traffic to, the thing that's most profitable to paid ads are webinars. Because we're making more money back here, right? Yeah. But also, we get so many leads coming in. Yeah. Because... Yeah. Yeah.

And the other thing you can do is that also is like this right here. So when someone registers for the webinar on the thank you page, you go, hey, by the way, Google My Dollar thinks you'll start selling tons of these too just by having it in the sign-up flow. Okay, question. Should we have a $300 midpoint between these two things? Because we're thinking of making this

$1,000 a year as like a thingy with like all of the stuff or like a lighter version of like the YouTuber operating system for 300 as a self-paced course. Yes. If I say yes, but where you position it in your sequence is key. Like you still want, like this would be still be the thing I'd sell on the webinar because it's got a highest price point, easiest for you to make money back and be profitable. Yeah.

And then what we typically do is after the campaign closes down for them and Monday, Monday night closes down, then Dean Gross, the OC, and Tony Robbins do this the best. They call it the No Customer Left Behind campaign. So when Tony and Dean do the big launches and they close it down, a week later they message everyone like, hey, I hope you enjoyed the challenge or the webinar. If you did enjoy it, if you signed up, congratulations, excited to work with you. If you didn't, we don't want to leave anyone behind. We want everyone to leave with something. And so they have this other offer. So

The offer they put out, it's TonyRobbinsInnerCircle.com. It's like $100 a month and you get a Tony Robbins lucky hat and you get whatever. It's $100 a month and they send everyone to that after the sequence is over. And they do like $89 million a year off of this offer that's like on the backside of it. So what I would do is after you've gone through this, you've done your best case trying to get this, then when the campaign ended, I'd come back and say, hey, for those who weren't able to get started, we have this really cool thing. Maybe you can afford it. This is something to get you started and get you

Yeah. So that's where I would, I would position that in the sequence. So that's how I, when it comes to ads, but like, let's say if someone, if an organic lead from YouTube were to go to YouTuberacademy.com or whatever, would you show that, Hey, we've got 300, we've got a thousand, we've got to apply now. Like in your description, you mean like, or no, just like, like on the,

on the page, like if you go on YouTuberacademy.com, it's like, hey, welcome to the YouTuber Academy. We have these three things for you. We've got a $300 thing, we've got a $1,000 thing, we've got a $5,000 thing. Is that like... I think that's fine for organic, but in the paid world, no one ever sees that. They only see the funnel. They only see what you pointed to, yeah. So yeah, I wouldn't have any problem with that somewhere else, but again, I'm not as good organically, so none of my people would ever see that. It'd be hard for them to find it.

Yeah, this is the thing. So even with like Brendan's stuff, like I signed up for his Experts Academy through an ad and I was trying to find it on Google. I was like, why does he make it so hard for me to pay money to him? Because I'm trying to recommend it to people. I'm like, I literally can't find the URL. But yeah. That's why. Yeah, that's the one. We want to be able to control the buying situation, right? Because you think about it,

of all this chaos, all these people. And it's like, for me, it's like, okay, take chaos or ads or whatever. It's like, I need to move them to a spot where I'm controlling the conversation. And that's cool about funnels. It gives you the ability to like slow things down and take them through the logical sequence of events you need to be able to make the argument, why they need to buy your thing and all that kind of stuff. Okay. I always struggle with this. So Jakob, who's our head of marketing, will often, he's been pushing me to do webinars for ages and he'll make the slides. And then when it comes to the sales bit at the end, I,

I like blitz through it and I like my energy towards it. It's very like, oh yeah, but you don't need to buy the thing. It's all good. And he's like tearing, he's like, bro, what are you doing? You're such a content developer. You don't want to sell like that. Yeah. Any, any tips? Yeah. Um, that's really funny. Yeah. A lot of people struggle with that. Um, I mean, there's two things. There's the, there's the math and the drama, which one do you want? Yeah.

i think it's a drama here's the drama yeah the drama is people feel uncomfortable selling yeah because they feel like they're doing something wrong or they're they're like i'm doing this to you yeah which is like what keeps people late and so um especially people who are really good content developers like they've been giving so much content for free forever that's when they're asking specifically for you to do something it feels awkward yeah um it's the big thing is just i think really understanding that like at least my my belief and what i've experienced like if people don't pay they don't pay attention like

They get free stuff and they feel good, but then...

the people who actually do something, it's like a funnel. The number of people who actually do something is smaller and smaller. The people in my world who have had the most success are also surprising as people who invest the most of my money because they pay, they pay attention, they keep showing up. And so I realized for me, it's like, I love these people I'm serving and I love these people I care about and want to be successful. But if I actually want them to be successful, I have to convince them to make an investment themselves to get them off the sidelines and into the game. So that's the thing. So when I believe that, it's not just like,

lip service but like i subconsciously believe like if i don't convince this person to to buy then i can't actually help them then it shifts everything like i'm speaking on stage i'm selling i literally pray before i go out there like please help me to have the ability to convince these people so i can get them it's like actually successful like i can't do it just by giving free stuff because they're not going to commit it's like i need to get them to do something so this is so for me it's like it's no longer hard for me to sell because it's like

as much as I love and care of these people, the only way I'm actually going to be able to get them to do the shifts they need is I have to get them to invest themselves or they won't. So that's the biggest problem. That's the drama. So you got to convince yourself of that. And then the math is just like, here's how we structure that. We have to structure it. You know what I mean? Does your guy, does he do his pitch side similar to how I do mine, like stacking, stuff like that? So the biggest thing is like,

The people I've seen who have been uncomfortable with it, it's the ones who are trying to be me or they're trying to... There's a way to make it your own that's not me. I have my method and a lot of people try to do it my way and I feel so uncomfortable. Yeah, well, you're not me. The psychology is there. The psychology is like you're making them offers and you're making it off and there's value to each thing. If I show you...

When I was trying to learn how to speak from stage, I went for four or five years. I was going to two or three events a month just to watch people speak and how they were selling. And what most people would do, I think we've transitioned a lot in the last couple of years, but what most people do is they would like,

they would talk about what they have to offer. They're like, "The first thing you're gonna get is this, "and then you're gonna get this." They share, "This is the thing that they have that's worth $10,000, "then this is the bonus that's worth $1,000, "this is my bonus worth $50, and then this." And they get down to, usually the last bonus is the worst one, right? And then from there, "The price, it's worth $5,000, "but I'm only gonna charge you $1,000." But the problem is the human mind, you probably know this better than I do, but the human mind only really remembers the last thing that it was told.

especially in the moment. So right here, I'm telling you that there's a $5,000 offer, but all your members are like, "That bonus you gave me is not worth $5,000." And also you have this internal conflict. I'm like, "But for $1,000, that's not even worth $1,000." They forget about the thing, right? So the way the stack works, and again, I do it more salesman style because that's my style, but if you understand the psychology, the psychology is like, if you're making an offer,

Right? The first thing you got to do is like, here's, here's the first component of the offer. And you explain it, you talk about, you show us why it's why, why it's awesome. And then we do is create a stack slide to show like, so the first thing you can get is this and here's the value associated with it. Right? So that's how much it's worth. Then you're going to do the next thing.

Right. You talk about that and then you come back and then you have to stack it. So you show the next thing. It's like, so what that means is you're going to get this thing plus this thing. If you add those two things together, this is the value of it. They introduce the third thing, so on and so forth. And then the end of it is you come back and like, then you have all of the things are going to get in the offer. And this is where you introduce like whatever the value is. Cause then they associate with this, not this.

So that's the psychology. So you can do it in a way that's less Russell Brunson, used car salesman, pitchman, whatever you want to call me, right? You can do like the Ollie version, which could be different. It could be as simple as like not even using slides. You could like print out a copy of the course. Like this is the first thing you're going to get. It's going to be amazing. Like I'm going to put it right here. And this is the course I would sell for $1,000. Then this is the next thing. And you can figure out your version. It's just the psychology of helping them see so that when they see everything they're going to get, that the price –

The price differential makes sense. That way, when you drop the price, it's like, oh, this actually is a really good value.

You know what I mean? Yes. I've seen people who have done it where they write out the things on a whiteboard and they cover it with tape and they just pull it off. Oh, that's what it's going to be. I see other people who don't do slides at all. They're just explaining it. They explain the parts and they show pictures of it. You know what it is? So just figure out a way that you feel comfortable because you're just going to your friend and saying, this is the cool – let me show you all the cool things I'm going to give you for $1,000. And then you think about it that way. Yeah. Like if I had someone –

looking over my shoulder and being like, hey, what's in the course? I'd be like, there's this and there's this and there's a camera confidence course bundled in and also there's a creative printer course bundled in. But for some reason when it's on a webinar with slides, which I guess slides that someone else has made. So maybe, yeah, hearing you say... And you don't even have to do slides. I'm a slide guy, so I do slides. Dean Graciosi, if you watch him, Dean's got one slide and it's this one. He does the entire thing teaching, doing it his way. He does stuff. And at the very end, he's like, here's my slide. And so it doesn't have to be

Again, think of the psychology. It's like taking the structure and psychology of it and then making a version that's your own. Especially like your people are coming off YouTube. They're used to seeing you in a very certain light. I would do it at your desk. I'd have, you know, make it look like a YouTube video. And just make it feel your style. Don't do my style. Do your style. Yes, nice. Yeah, I think in my mind, I had to copy you because I've seen you do this on YouTube a bunch of times. And I'm like, that feels weird. But you saying that, oh, I can just do it my own way, suddenly makes me, oh, yeah, I can do it my own way. Yeah.

yeah I think I'm more the Dean style than the you style it's like great like I've seen him do it as well and it comes across as very nice yeah it's like so friendly see for me it's like I do it my way for a couple reasons it's like when you teach when you teach you know it's like if I'm teaching for whiteboard I'm freestyle I'm going but I'm trying to sell like I don't freestyle because I have

there's very certain things I need to do. So for me to remember where I'm going, it's all slide driven. So for me, it's like the slides help me to remember the story and the thing and where I'm going. So that's why I do it that way. Some people don't need that or some people have their own style. You know, like we talked earlier about YouTube. You have your three things. You know, here's the things that I cover. Just follow that process and make it your own, you know? That is very cool. Okay, next question. This is absolutely sick, by the way. Thank you.

One thing that, so we had a great chat with Ryan Dice. And one thing we were talking about is, you know, I was saying this thing around, you know, we want to try and dissociate business revenue from me showing up to make YouTube videos. The problem is sort of right now, our entire company is, it's sort of like, you know, Alibaba company and they're sort of like the content team. And then they're sort of like the commercial team.

which has these two courses, the YouTube course and the productivity course. And we're sort of doing some software stuff on the side, but we don't need to talk too much about that. What Ryan suggested was that think of sort of YouTuber Academy and Productivity Lab

as almost separate entities with Alibdal Media as your content arm. So that means the team for Alibdal Media can just be focused on creating content and growing the email list and driving book sales. Great, nice and easy. YouTuber Academy team would have a head of growth and a head of product, and Alibdal Media can drive leads to this and drive leads to Productivity Lab. But actually these guys are now trying to get their own paid ads and stuff

and having a dedicated head of growth for this thing, which is kind of 2 million a year, trying to grow it to 5, and then this is probably going to do like 1 million this year, and we're trying to grow it to 5. This would also need a head of growth and a head of product. And so then Ali Abdaal becomes just one of the lead gen channels for each of these two different products. And by separating them out into their own mini businesses, mini companies with their own like,

ClickFunnels account, their own CRM, their own landing pages, their own whatever, it means that these then become more saleable assets, whereas no one's ever going to buy Alibda Media. I wouldn't buy it, but you know, just kidding. What's your take on this approach of separating out the different products into different websites, assets? I agree with that. My structure is very similar because I got

I've got Russell Brunson. I don't call it Russell Brunson Media, but it's like there's me doing the stuff I'm doing, right? And then we've got like the ClickFunnels company. We have the Russell Brunson. I call marketing secrets with all my info product businesses. Then I've got like Dan Kennedy's business we bought. I got Secrets to Success with my personal loan business. And each of those has their own team of like an integrator, operator who's running it and things like that. Yeah.

Then we have like one, you know, it's just like you have like one content team. We have one ads team who are working across all of them though. That would make sense. It would make sense for ads to be like a shared service across the business. Like media buying and stuff. Yeah. Like other HR stuff that's all shared. But as far as like your credits, like...

There's not someone focusing on the business and the growth. It'll just atrophied out over time. Yeah. Because we have one marketing guy who was previously trying to grow all the things and it's just split focus. Similarly, we found for social media, when our social media person is trying to grow all the platforms, they grow at a tiny rate. When she focuses on just one thing, it grows massively. It's sort of like, yeah, the focus thing. I keep on seeing this so often in business that I just always forget that it's a thing. Yeah, for sure. Speaking a little bit philosophically, one

The drama thing I often run into is, this is a good distinction from math and drama. A drama thing I often run into is, do I even need to grow the business to 10 million? Like, what's the point? I've got enough money. Like, am I just being like a capitalist pig, greedy, blah, blah, blah. And then part of it is like, no, I enjoy the game of entrepreneurship. This is fun. I love talking about this. That's so cool. I'm looking forward to diving in and thinking about these funnels and things.

Do you get this sort of drama with people that you coach and talk to? Yeah. It's different cultures, too. You think about it, America is probably a different culture than Europe, right? Oh, yeah. I think you guys struggle with that more than here. Where here, it's like, cutthroat. Like, you know, we're capitalists. Like, that's the American culture. But overseas, other places we work with clients, it's definitely harder, I think, sometimes. Yeah. But I think, for me, it all comes down to, like, the motives of it, right? Like...

If this is your game, if you're an athlete, you want to be the best athlete in the world. There's people who go on a team that are there, but they're not trying. You think about this, if your sport is entrepreneurship business and you're an athlete on the team, what's the point if you're not trying to do something? Yes, I have enough money. Michael Jordan, yes, he won a championship. But

but what else you can do with your life? Right. It's like, I feel like we're on this, you know, the time we're here on the earth is it's a short period of time, obviously the same time. It's like, there's a lot to do. It's like, I spent a lot of my kids and there's like, there's still like eight hours a day to like do something. Like I can watch Netflix or I can like create something of value that doesn't, that like fuels me, but it also like changes people's lives. Like,

Yeah. I think when you, at least for me, when I started transitioning it less to like, I got to make $10 million to like, if I make $10 million, the amount of people I'm going to be able to affect is double. Like that, that fires me up even more. So just realizing that part of it and then,

you start seeing the ripple effect of that, right? Like when we launched ClickFunnels, that was one of the coolest things. It's like initially it was like a vehicle and tool for me and my business partner Todd to make money. And then we started seeing people having success. They're like, whoa, those guys are making money. It became more exciting. Like look how much money these guys are making. And then the obsession became like helping them. And then what was cool is like then these people who are all small entrepreneurs, they start hiring teams and people. And like I remember one time we did an audit. We tried to figure out

just of ClickFunnels active users, how many employees each person had. It was like on average like 2.5. So like that's 250,000 employees that have jobs because of the ClickFunnels ecosystem, right? And then we start thinking about, I start looking at each individual entrepreneur, like Caitlin Poland launched Lady Boss and they had like 1.5 million women on the email list who were following them. They had like 100,000 active customers who bought their products who lost weight. And I was like, that one entrepreneur that affected

you know, a hundred thousand plus people. And you start looking at the ripple effect, how it starts going. And then for me, like that's what fires me up more than the 10 million. It's like, how many lives are changed because you did this thing? Like that's the more exciting thing, right? And this actually, I'm going to,

I'm going to caveat this because this comes back to a question you asked like an hour ago. But like the ads, like how do you create ads long term? But like if you start shifting, if you start looking at this differently, like the first level ads people have is like them telling the story like, hey, I'm all, I'm successful. I'm successful. Go watch my webinar, right? Which is good. But then what's better is when you come down and you talk about your customer stories and

Like this is a much better story and it's much better ad. Like having this person come on and be like, I went through Ali's course and blah, blah, blah. And it changed my life. It was amazing. Like you guys want to check it out too. Boom. Like that ad will out convert you doing the ad. Right. And you have tons of these people all telling, like every time you give some success story, you capture them telling the story and that becomes the ad, which fuels the thing. Like we're talking about, you have like 30, whatever Alex told you, 30 ads a month or whatever. Like,

They don't have to be you doing 30 ads. Get 30 people success stories and those people each create three ads. Now you got ads for the next 90 days, right? So it's like looking at that, there's the first tier, which is most entrepreneurs focus on themselves. And then the second tier, which most people never get to, is the focus of the customers. And then that becomes the success stories that drive the business to the next level and beyond. So-

Anyway, it gets more fun that way because then it's like we change someone's life and you capture that. So for us, when I started realizing this, when someone would have success and they went to a comic book award or something, we'd fly them to Boise. We'd fly to them. Dan Asher on our team, he bought a camper trailer and he took four months off and just drove around the country to people's houses to capture these stories. We brought them back and they became a little mini documentaries. They became videos. They became ads. They became all these social assets. And like,

Hearing, you know, Gabe Schillinger in San Francisco who was a musician, the fact that he never won a Grammy but he's got three, two comic book awards on the wall selling his music beats. That's way more fascinating than I sold a potato gun 25 years ago. Let me tell you my story. You know, that's inspiring. That's fascinating. And it opens up a whole new world of people. It's also tough because like in our audiences…

Like, people who like me or they don't like me, right? Or they relate to me or they don't. But when Caitlin Poland came in, she did her whole story. Like, she's a female entrepreneur. And all of a sudden, I brought all these female entrepreneurs in our world. And I had somebody else tell a story. Like, it brings different segments of the world in that may not relate with me or with you or whoever it is. Anyway, so that kind of maybe hopefully answers two questions. Yeah, no, that's great. Like, what I'm getting from that is, like, actually –

In my mind, I've been thinking, oh, the goal is 10 million because various people have said, oh, it's useful to work back from a revenue goal. But just changing the framing of it more towards, no, the goal is to change more people's lives with these products. And like, yeah, sure, the videos are good and sure, the book is good. But like really, the people, for example, going through Productivity Lab and some of the people who've gone through YouTuber Academy,

have genuinely had their lives changed and are just like raving fans now yeah and if we could get like more like those are the people we're serving and shifting from that i want to get to 10 million revenue because it's fun and more towards i want to serve more people because it's fun and just nice and just like it's what i do and i need something to do to pass the time that makes it feel a lot better and probably means that i'd be less subconsciously sabotaging myself on route to yeah

Yeah, and then I guess the revenue takes care of itself. If you start taking these people and you start putting them on a pedestal, then other people will aspire to that as well. It's like, oh my gosh, like, especially if you start bringing these people on your YouTube channel, they're telling their story on your YouTube channel, then other people are like, oh my gosh, like, if I'm successful, maybe they'll have me. So they start working harder. Like, we started doing two comic club awards. People started seeing it, then they're like,

I want that. And they all started, they became more aspirational and started working harder because they wanted that thing too. You know what I mean? Nice. Dude, thank you so much. This has been absolutely wonderful. Any final parting advice? Like we've spent a couple of hours together, so you have a sense of like what my stuff is. Any unsolicited feedback, any advice, anything you would say? Yeah, I think the biggest thing I said, we just need the right webinar, the right funnel to sell a thousand-hour course. Like you have so much traffic and eyeballs on the front end for free that I'm so jealous of.

And I think converting those people through a free web class will make you money. But then again, the ability to turn on ads. I think scaling to an extra $5 million when you turn ads on is not going to be that difficult. The profit margins will shift. I think you said earlier 60% of the profit margin. When you're doing paid ads, you're close to probably 25%, 30%. So just realizing that as you're doing paid ads, the profits shrink a little bit. But I think getting to $10 million won't be...

So you get the ads thing working, you'll be able to scale past that a lot quicker. Got it. That make sense? Remember when Hermosy first joined your circle? The first call was like, "Michael, if I can make this 20 grand a month, I'll change my life forever." I was like, "Dude." I could tell by talking that he was going to be insanely good. I was like, "If we only make you 20 grand a month, we did everything wrong." To get an extra $5 million in sales, right now you're doing what, two product launches a year and you're at 5 million, whatever it is?

You turn on every group of people who can buy every day instead of twice a year. Like you should at least double, you should at least get 10 million. Yeah. If you don't go aggressive with, if you go aggressive with that, I think you get 20, 30 million just by pushing it hard, you know? So I don't know. Thank you. Oh, final question. Any key hires that you think like important who's to help like,

facilitate this? At the moment we're working with an ads agency, but should we bring it in-house? We've got about 20 people on the team, about 10 on the content side and about 10 on the courses side. I wonder, yeah, who are some key hires to think about? That's such a hard... So specifically ad stuff, in the short term, obviously you don't want to shift your focus like, "Let me learn how to build a paid ad team." But over the long term, it's also tough working through an agency because agency by definition is like you have a percentage of their focus and their time, which makes it harder.

Because ideally, if you had somebody who's in-house long-term, who's looking at all the content you're making right now, how can I take that and how can I turn that into paid ads? Because you're doing more content than anybody right now. You have so much out there. Every video you put out there could turn into...

four different ads, five different, you know, but you need someone who's be able to see that. But an agency's not going to do that because they're going to come back and like, hey, we need, here's six scripts. You know what I mean? Like, they're going to give you that versus like someone, so maybe seeing like somebody just an ads-focused content person on your team whose only goal is to like watch what you're doing and then from there figure out what are the sound bites we can turn into ads to push to the course, you know, and like, and pulling those things out for an agency because the agency's just not going to give you the hands-on you need.

But in the short term, you also don't want to build an ad agency. That sucks too. Yeah. So maybe like having someone on your team just focusing on like, I'm pulling that kind of stuff out. And I mean, honestly, I would have,

I would have some, maybe you already have this person, somebody who is in charge of the funnels, like watching it, optimizing it, tweaking it, looking at stats, looking at numbers. Like, you know, it's funny. I went to, I don't know if you know Andy Elliott. He's very sales driven. I went to his office. He's got 90 sales guys and two people running their funnels. I was like, so fascinating. He's in my office and we've got, you know, one sales person and like,

30 people working on the funnels because I'm funnel focused. We're optimizing conversion and numbers and stats and trying to figure those things out. So having someone who can do that because the difference in getting your landing page conversion from 30% to 40% doesn't seem like that big of a deal other than that means you get 25% more people to show up to every single webinar, which is insane. Like over time, that's an extra $2 million a year by just having someone focusing on that, right? Or focusing on getting show up rates or focusing on...

the closed, like all those little pieces. It's just like, that's like a little, you know, a little hinge that swings a huge door because so much traffic is coming in there and sells all the back end. It's like having someone who's just focused on the funnel and the optimization of it would be probably the other one that I think would be really helpful for you. Amazing. Great stuff. Thanks, man. Sweet, man. Good session. That was really fun.

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