Macao at 25: a Portuguese elaborates on why he chose to stay
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25 years ago today, Macau returned to China after more than a century of Portuguese rule. Over the past quarter century, however, many Portuguese professionals have made their journey in reverse, building their careers in the special administrative region.

In this episode, director José Carlos Madías of the Macau Business Magazine shares his observations on the transformation he's witnessed since 1999 and explores how the city has thrived amid a growing landscape of business opportunities. It's Friday, December 20th.

I know that you go by several different names, José Madias, which is your Portuguese name. And then there's you also came up with a Chinese Mandarin name. Would you like to introduce that? Like where it came from? Oh, yes, definitely. I mean, my my Chinese name, actually, it is printed in my in my Macau ID card. You know, my travel permit to mainland is Ma Tianlong. Ma Tianlong.

Yeah, in Cantonese, Ma Tin Long, but in Putonghua would be something similar to Ma Tian Long, Ma of horse, Tian of sky, Long of dragon. Well, it was basically now my wife, back then my girlfriend. Yes. I asked her to, you know, come up with a Chinese name for me because I needed to, I wanted to include my Chinese name in my business card. Right, the Chinese culture. So then she, you know, based on my surnames,

I've got surnames, Matias, Dusan. But, you know, my professional name, I use Matias. And then, you know, from Matias became Martin Long, right? So that's the story behind it. And I guess, in a way, that's what I'm told. You know, it can be the name of a Chinese person. Actually, you do have...

Over the years, I found out, first of all, there's another Portuguese friend here whose Chinese name is Matian Long. He's a lawyer, a senior barrister who's been based here since the 1990s. I was not aware of that. Exact same wording? This is exactly the same three characters. And also there's someone else who's a Rwandan Aibiao, who's also called Matian Long. He's still a member of the National People's...

Congress, it's just something that I found out. Yeah, it's a curiosity. Yeah, I'm not surprised because the three characters you chose from Chinese, they happen to be quite common and popular words. You've got sky, you've got horse and dragon. Two of them are the popular words.

from the Chinese zodiac signs. So I encourage my friends to call me Alon, right? Or even Long Gold. That's a very bro-ish street-sounding name from a Cantonese perspective. Yes, I know.

I learned that you spent quite some years from your teenage years into 20 something, almost 30, that you were doing journalism. And especially the few years after you came over from Portugal to Macau. So what picked your interest in doing journalism in Macau and how did you like it?

Well, first of all, like the story begins in my mid teens when I was 14, 15 years old. And I was a huge fan of radio. And I had this opportunity joining college radio in my hometown, Coimbra. From then on, I joined the newsroom of that radio station, all on a voluntary basis, because it was basically run by, managed by students, by

university students. And then myself, I became an undergraduate student in journalism at the University of Coimbra. So it all became, it was all quite

quite natural and was flowing in a way that would be organic because that was already into the industry, though on a voluntary basis. So then I completed my bachelor degree in journalism. I joined the National News Radio in Lisbon. And then there was this opening positions for TDMs, public service,

radio station in Portuguese, TDM is Macau's public service broadcaster. And they were recruiting younger people from Portugal to basically fill the ranks of the newsroom. Because back then in early 2003, we had a number of Portuguese people returning to Macau by the time of the handover in 1999. But

But, you know, Portuguese remained an official language of the then-Lulistão Macau SAR, an official language with a designated standalone radio channel and TV channel with news services and all of that in Portuguese.

So they were recruiting and then I applied. I thought, why not? Exploring the world. Like, yeah, I mean, if I don't like it, I just return home after a couple of years. So when I arrived, I was supposed to stay for two years and then probably my plan would be most likely then I'll just leave.

return, I'll just be back to Portugal or elsewhere in Europe. But then, you know, two years became four, four became eight, 10, 15. And now it's nearly 22 years. And Macau actually did become my home. Macau is your home. Yeah, because basically, about half of my life has been spent here, based here. So

so many things happened over these couple of decades and yeah it's been quite a journey yeah you brought up a very interesting description for me which is by the time that macau returned to the motherland you said there are many portuguese people that returned home to macau

instead of the other way around, because I would picture that some Portuguese people, they would want to move over to Portugal instead of the other way around, of coming over from Portugal to Macau. And you were part of that group of people that chose to find a job, develop your career in the newly established Macau SAR. And were there a lot of people that were like you that came over Portugal to Macau during that period?

Yes, definitely. You are touching on something that is perhaps, I would say, at first glance, a counterintuitive phenomenon. Yes, counterintuitive, very. Yeah, but it did happen. Well, the thing is that, first of all, there's a political decision by the Chinese authorities, both, of course, the central government, but of course, and also the regional authorities,

of keeping and nurturing a level of a sort of a Portuguese presence in Macau after the handover. This was reflected in policies such as a recruitment drive to bring from Portugal legal experts to work in the Macau SAR government as advisors, because back then it was a nascent policy

S.A.R. administration and because you had a bit of a partial brain drain by the time of the handover and in the S.A.R. government, the first S.A.R. government embarked on a mission to partially reverse that and they did succeed.

I believe that I'm part of that wave of those who settled in Macau in the first decade of the SAR. And of course, another point is that what happened after 2004, namely, which was the opening up of

of the gaming industry reflected in the first foreign owned casinos and integrated resorts being established here and thriving and the whole stagnant growth that we witnessed that created a lot of jobs

which also attracted hundreds, I would say even thousands of professionals hailing from Portugal. And many of them like myself had no previous link or connection with Macau. Others had grown up here,

had studied abroad and they were returning home. So we had these two kinds of people. I'm talking about the new blood and those who were returning who were like back then 20 something, somewhere between 24 and 35. They were either at the very onset of their career or they had already tasted what was working in the early 21st century in Europe. And I have to tell you that

you know, it was not entirely satisfactory in several ways because of wage level, because of a lot, you know,

Back then, including in Portugal, we were already starting to experience impact of globalization post after the end of the Cold War and also with the rising powerhouses, including China, of course. And then the thing is that opportunities were flourishing elsewhere. Of course, Macau was flourishing.

a very and is a very welcoming place for a Portuguese national Portuguese professional and he was even more at the time because

Because there was a shortage of skilled professionals and you needed to have skilled native level Portuguese speaking professionals to work in the administration in terms of proofreading, writing Portuguese documents, legal experts to help draft laws in the media.

But also other professionals are like, of course, normal job opportunities arising from, you know, the gaming boom and the tourism industry boom. You know, in terms of fine dining, you also have a number of people coming from Portugal, settling here. Architects, engineers, because you also have a construction boom, you know, that followed the...

after the opening up of the gaming and tourism industry that also provided a number of opportunities. So all of this is actually the outcome of, on the one hand, of course, goodwill and a political decision to support and encourage a level of a Portuguese presence in Macau and of professionals.

was also related to needs that the city had, but including at the time, not now, is no longer so much the case because, of course, you know, there's been an upgrade in the skills of the locals over the past two decades. So nowadays, we no longer need so much to bring legal experts from Portugal to work in the government. But back then, there was that need. And that was really a fortunate juncture because

We had a new generation, new blood coming from Portugal. And also one thing is that people like me and many of my friends and others, we were

moving to a special administrative region of China. So, you know, it's a bit of a like in terms of the mindset, right? That is not a detail. A place of potentials. Yeah, because, yeah, that was in all of what we witnessed, you know, many of us, you know, this was something that made us feel like,

as part of the city, part of the community, and also certainly the fact that back then and in the years that followed, all these waves of Portuguese professionals, they were granted with the Macau SAR residency.

I am a Macau SAR permanent resident. And all of this is also quite favorable for us. So first few years, you continued in journalism, doing some radio. And following your time in the journalism industry in Macau, then you started becoming a...

a contributor to the Macau Business Magazine. And I read from your LinkedIn profile that starting from the year 2007, that's when you started writing for the Business Magazine. And after these years, then in this year, we have seen the first blueprint to diversify Macau's economy that incorporates a wide range of emerging industries with tourism, leisure, traditional Chinese medicine, health,

financial services, etc. I think to many people outside Macau, these are just fancy concepts, names. But I'm sure you will have some first-hand knowledge of how these emerging industries are taking place in Macau.

Well, let me first start by putting things a bit in perspective when it comes to diversification. Yes. Diversification has been an aim over the decades. Actually,

uh you know those who cast a skeptical eye my regard the latest moves as a sort of you know like old wine in your bottles thing i would say not exactly but i understand why how why they come from that perspective why because they have been

repeated attempts to diversify Macau's economy. I mean, over the decades before the handover, you had the industrial parks, especially in the early 1990s. After the handover, more high tech in industrial parks and also that

economic diversification did take center stage, front and center of all speeches and all discourses and narratives. So we may only be seeing the first blueprint this year, but actually the process took place a long time ago. Yeah, I mean, the process in the sense of an awareness that that was absolutely necessary to be less reliant on gaming. Now, the question here is,

What can we expect from what results would we realistically expect from this process? When we talk about diversification, what exactly are we talking about? So let me tell you that, first of all, it's about appropriate diversification. Or earlier, it was mentioned as moderate diversification.

So from moderate evolved into appropriate. This means that there's an understanding that the outcomes will still be limited in the short term. And why is that? Because first of all, when it comes to the government's reliance on gaming revenue or on taxes collected on gaming,

First of all, we have to bear in mind that gaming is subject to a special tax on gross revenue. This is the only industry where we have this. All other sectors, all other economic activities are facing tax levied on profits, not on revenue. So this is a big, big difference. So this means that

Why do we have reliance to the extent that 80 or 81 or 82% of the overall revenue, I mean, current revenue collected by the government comes from taxes on gaming. That is the main reason why. So this means that

Even in the mid term, it's not easy to bring this proportion much down. I mean, maybe you can bring it to 70%, but we have to understand, you know, to come to terms with this reality. Now, what can be done and is being done is the weight of the gaming industry in terms of aggregate value for

for the gross domestic product, for the GDP, for the wealth creation. You look at that, we have a situation where some progress has been made. About 10 years ago, it was something like...

Overing around 60%. Now is around 40%. But we have to understand that the figures are from 2023. She's still partially impacted by the pandemic or the post-pandemic situation. So we have to consider pre-pandemic 2019. And there you have 50%.

Of the economy being generated, you know, putting it in a simple way based on gaming activity. Right. So this is where we are. The aim is that by 2028, that proportional is brought down from.

50 to 40 percent, to no more than 40 percent. That's very ambitious. That's very ambitious. Well, but the point is, the thing is that, is it by compressing gaming or by growing the other sectors? Right, encouraging the other ones. Yeah, so that's the, I think when we look at diversification, we have

to look at the hard facts, you know, the figures and see what can be done. So having said this, I would tell you that we have seen tangible progress in areas and sectors such as financial services.

not only in absolute terms, but also in relative, or I shall say not only relative terms, but also in absolute terms in terms of the added, the value added by financial services. When it comes to big health and traditional Chinese medicine, yes, you have some improvements, but I guess we have to consider that we would not, it would not be realistic to expect too much from it in the short term.

The point here relates to how to in a win-win situation and not obviously in the zero-sum dynamics, how to make the one which is gaming and integrated tourism be more diversified and integrate as much as possible in its business or in the business development of these big companies

the other sectors. So that's where you have the so-called tourism plus integrated tourism.

And on that front, yes, we see important steps taken and things moving forward in terms of entertainment, in terms of fine dining, in terms of cultural tourism. When it comes to mice, yes, there's a lot of room to grow from there and to grow both in terms of quantity, but also quality. But you do see things, something taking shape.

And it takes shape because to the extent that it can be integrable into the business development strategies by the existing big six gaming and integrated tourism operators. So it's something like this is the formula that is more market-based. Another way to be more market-based, because one of the main issues here in these master plans and the blueprints is

is the following. You know, if you look at it in terms of the design, it is quite visionary and has plenty of internal coherence. And it's the right path. And the direction is that people would agree that there's a consensus that we have to move into towards that to meet those goals.

Another key, we have to get all of these right. And of course, we're going to talk about that is hongqing, hongqing and regional integration, especially hongqing. It was so, so clear, crystal clear to all of us, the risks of being so, so, so reliant on a single industry. Of course, we had the financial reserves.

thanks to the gaming boom. The government has been piling up surplus after surplus. All these surpluses resulted into us having a very, very comfortable shield to protect us and to the rainy day fund is quite good. Macau is...

is already back to a budget surplus without having to resort to the financial reserve. Why? Because of tourism and, of course, gaming. And because, of course, this organic relation with the mainland, when it comes to, of course, the tourism industry and the

Give an example, earlier this month, we had this new policy of residents from Zhuhai being able to visit Macau

once a week for a maximum of seven days. This is going to kick off on the 1st of January 2025, being already implemented with regards to Hong Kong, Shenzhen and Hong Kong. So all of these, this is just an example of how, why and how Macau has been able to succeed. But there are social imbalances, there are contradictions. And I think there's a case and I think

I believe and hope and expect that the new administration will be tackling some of these matters and issues related to SMEs, to housing, to social policies, you know, in order to have a more people-oriented practice in terms of governance. And of course, to increase integrity is very important. Yes.

So within Macau, there are these attempts to diversify its economy. But at the same time, outside Macau, you brought up Henching, which has officially become the autonomous customer's territory in March, the Henching cooperation zone, and with easement of movement of people, goods, capital, and information between Macau and Henching.

The numbers that I'm reading is that by the end of September, there were over 6,000 Macanese companies that established a branch or relocated their company to Henqing. Also, by the end of June, there were over 16,000 Macanese people that have settled their life in Henqing with 5,000 people working there. So,

As we record this episode, this week marked the 25th anniversary of Macau's return to its motherland. And at this critical point, how do you think this deepening integration between the Chinese mainland and Macau will benefit the SAR, especially for the diversification for the Macanese economy? Spot on. Diversification, the way forward is definitely coupled with hunching.

Well, Hongshin provides a much broader economic space for the Macau SAR. We're talking about, in terms of area, three times the area of Macau. We are also, the number and the wave of favorable policies and incentives can be, you can take note of that nearly on a daily basis.

Also in this respect, it's not realistic to expect very sound results overnight, but they will come gradually and they are coming and it will move faster from here on. And in fact,

I believe that following Xi Jinping's visit, we will see things moving faster and an improvement in many ways with regards to mobility. Mobility, of course, you were talking about something of paramount importance, which is the mobility of people, of services, of good and of capital. Well,

This brings me to, because in terms of mobility of people, we have seen, you know, big strides in recent months and I think over the past, since early 2023, but namely in the second half of this year, including, for instance, someone like myself. I'm a non-Chinese permanent resident of the Macau SAR. And since July, we benefit from this travel permit that allow allowing us to

A mobility between Macau and the mainland in a multiple entry visa or permit, right, was basically allowing us to just, you know, okay, you're here having this talk and I can ask you, oh, wow, why don't we have dinner in Zhuhai? Yes. And it's quite easy. This mobility is really important. Of course, it already existed for those who are Chinese nationals, but being extended

to non-Chinese nationals residents of Macau is a game changer. And it's actually, I can tell you that

for myself, for many of my Portuguese and other nationality friends, is being celebrated, I would say. Because it's really very convenient and also allows us to truly experience deeper developments in mainland, better value for money and all of that. So I think there's expectations that we will be witnessing bold moves in terms of the integration of Macau and Hang Sinh. That will...

some concerns that the business community might have in the short term. But in terms of mid to long term, I would say the overall sentiment is positive with regards to that's the way forward and the, you know, the hopes that this will, in fact, leverage Macau's, you know,

modernization to a new level which will, yes, allow us to attain those goals. I believe since you came over to Macau in the early 2000s, you had the privilege to witness many critical points along the development of Macau and this year may just be one more of them. Yes, I have seen this city's development and also

China's development over the past 22 years, almost 20 years I've been based here. And this is, I feel this as a privilege because of what we've seen here. It is remarkable. It is amazing. It is something that shaped the way I look at the world and that

a number of developments. Very exciting times to live by. Yes, definitely. Thank you very much for joining this episode, José Matías Tinlong. Yes, my great pleasure. On Friday, Sam Ho-Fai was sworn in as Macau's chief executive during a ceremony administered by Chinese President Xi Jinping.

In his remarks, President Xi commended Macau's remarkable progress since his return. He underscored the importance of fostering diversity and inclusiveness while urging the city to demonstrate greater courage in pursuing reform and innovation. As Macau works to diversify its economy, challenges are inevitable. Yet this effort is vital to shaping a more dynamic and inclusive future for the region.

That brings us to the end of this episode of Deep Dive. If you enjoyed what you just heard, don't forget to follow us on your podcast platforms. Just search for Deep Dive. You can also leave a comment to let us know what you want to learn about China and beyond. This episode is brought to you by me, Li Yunqi, and my colleagues Zhang Zhang and Qi Zhi. Special thanks to director Jose Carlos Matias of the Macau Business Magazine. I'll see you in the next one.