EP21:Deep Into - Slow Productivity
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All right, ready to slow things down a bit. Today, we're taking a deep dive into Cal Newport's slow productivity. You know how everyone's always telling us to hustle harder and be more productive? Well, this book kind of throws that whole idea out the window and offers a totally different perspective on how we approach work, especially in a world that feels like it's constantly on fast forward. So just picture this, okay, legendary writer John McPhee working on this huge article about the Pine Barrens. He's got

Tons of research, but he's just totally stuck on how to structure the whole thing. And what does he do? Lies down on a picnic table. Oh, wow. I know, right? For two weeks, staring at a tree. No way. Yeah. Sounds crazy, right? But that's how he finally figured out the structure for what became one of his most famous pieces. You know, that image of McPhee just lying there, it really makes you think. I mean, it's like the opposite of how we're all supposed to work today, right?

We're drowning in to-do lists, emails, meetings, you name it. It's this feeling of always needing to be on. It's no surprise that people are resonating with books like Do Nothing and 4,000 Weeks so much these days.

Yeah, for sure. Even things like the Great Resignation. It shows how badly people need a break from that crazy pace. It's like we're all obsessed with being busy, but are we actually producing better work because of it? I don't know. That's exactly what Newport calls pseudo-productivity, right? Frantically doing all these things that look like progress on the surface, but don't actually get you anywhere meaningful. It's all just for show. Exactly. You know, it makes you wonder, what even is productivity in this kind of work? Like, we don't really have a clear...

definition for knowledge work, do we? That's the thing. It's hard to define. Think about other fields like agriculture or manufacturing. There you can easily measure how much you're producing. Right. Tangible stuff. Yeah. Tangible stuff. But knowledge work, it's much harder to pin down. It's so much more nuanced. It is. Even experts like Peter Drucker and Tom Davenport, they've struggled to define it.

Yeah, that makes sense. And I think this story that Newport tells about the CBS executive, Leslie Moonves, really highlights this, right? Back in the 90s, he apparently lost it when he saw an almost empty office on a Friday afternoon. Like to him, empty desks meant no one was working. Oh, wow. But does that really apply to knowledge work? Not really. Not at all. It's like trying to use a manufacturing mindset for a completely different type of work. Totally. Like just because you're not physically present in an office doesn't mean you're not being productive.

Exactly. Especially nowadays, with all the technology we have, email, Slack, Zoom, it's easy to create this illusion of constant progress. Oh, yeah, for sure. When in reality, we might just be spinning our wheels. Yeah, totally. We get so caught up in the tools, we forget about the actual work. Right. The tools can become part of the problem. But the good news is, Newport doesn't just point out the problem. He offers a solution, too. Oh, that's good.

He suggests we shift to what he calls slow productivity. It's actually inspired by, believe it or not, the slow food movement. The low food movement. So instead of fast food, it's like taking the time to enjoy good quality food. Exactly. Local, artisanal, the whole deal. And slow productivity, it basically applies that same idea to how we work. Okay.

I'm kind of getting it now. It's all about prioritizing quality over quantity, working at a pace that feels natural and resisting that urge to constantly do more, more, more. So not about burning ourselves out. No, not at all. More like finding a sustainable way to actually get things done. Exactly. And Newport breaks it down into these three core principles. Do fewer things, work at a natural pace and obsess over quality.

Okay, those sound great in theory, but what do they actually look like in real life? Well, let's start with that first principle. Do fewer things. It's not about being lazy or anything like that. It's more about being super focused. I see. Think of it like a sculptor chipping away at a block of marble. They're removing everything that isn't the statue. Okay, yeah, I like that analogy. And we need that same kind of focus with our work, getting rid of all the unnecessary stuff.

So how do we know what to get rid of? I mean, how do we figure out what to chip away at? Newport uses this great example from Jay Mostyn's life. Apparently, when her family school closed down, her workload decreased significantly. Huh. Interesting. And guess what? Her writing flourished.

Really? Yeah. She suddenly had the space to create some of her most beloved novels. So it's like less is more. Sometimes, yeah. It sounds counterintuitive, but it makes a lot of sense. Yeah, when you put it that way. It's about making conscious choices and focusing your energy where it matters most. Not just spreading ourselves thin trying to do everything. Exactly. Like, remember Jonathan Frostick?

That HSBC manager who had a heart attack and realized he had to make a change. Oh, yeah. I remember that story. He started by cutting back on those endless Zoom meetings. It's scary how much those can take over our lives. It really is. It's a wake up call for a lot of us, making us realize we need to figure out what truly matters and prioritize that.

So it's all about figuring out what our core priorities are. Like, what are the tasks that really make a difference and what can we just let go of? Exactly. It's about being ruthless with your to-do list. And Newport gives a bunch of examples of people who found success by doing just that. Oh, cool. Like who? Well, there's Laura, a coach, who decided to narrow down the services she offered. Okay, so she got more specialized. Yeah, exactly.

Then there's Jason, a law professor who focused all his energy on one big case instead of juggling a ton of smaller ones. And did it work out for them? It did. They were able to achieve more and produce higher quality work. There's also Aurelia, a teacher who learned to say no to taking on extra responsibilities that weren't essential. It's so hard to say no, though. I know, right?

But it's crucial if you want to protect your time and energy. It's inspiring, though, to see that it is possible to break free from that do more mentality that's everywhere. It definitely is. It just takes a conscious effort to shift your mindset and focus on what truly matters. Yeah. And it sounds like that leads us perfectly into the second principle of slow productivity. It does, which is.

Work at a natural pace. Now that was a little bit of a head-scratcher for me How do we actually do that when everything's so deadline driven? Yeah, I get that It's definitely a challenge especially when we're constantly bombarded with messages about you know hustling and grinding all the time But think about it this way even those brilliant scientists like Galileo and Newton they didn't work at a crazy speed non-stop They had times of really intense work. Yeah, but then they also had breaks retreats

time to just think and reflect. So they weren't pushing themselves to the limit 2047. Nope not at all. And their biggest discoveries they happened

over years, even decades. Wow. Yeah, that puts things in perspective. Right. So it's not about being lazy or unproductive. It's more about recognizing that our energy levels naturally go up and down. And that's totally fine. We're not robots. Exactly. We're not machines. And if we try to force ourselves to work at a constant grind, we're just going to burn out and lose our creativity. True. It's not sustainable in the long run. And remember, taking breaks and resting, it's not the enemy of productivity. It's actually essential for it. Okay.

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. You mentioned earlier that Newport talks about seasonality and work, like aligning our work with natural rhythms the way people did in the past before the Industrial Revolution. Yeah, exactly. Think about a farmer, right? They don't try to plant and harvest crops year round. Right, they work with the seasons. They do. There are times for intense activity and times for rest and rejuvenation. And we can apply that same idea to knowledge work.

So instead of always being on, we can adjust our intensity throughout the year, maybe slowing down during certain months or blocking off certain days for focused work. Exactly. It's about finding a rhythm that works for you, one that allows for both periods of intense activity and periods of rest and renewal. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. I'm starting to see how this whole natural pace idea fits into the bigger picture of slow productivity. But what about that third principle, obsess over quality?

How do we actually do that? Good question. This principle is all about shifting our focus from just getting things done to creating work that's truly excellent, something we're proud of. It's like aiming for something more than just checking things off a list. Right. It takes patience and discipline, and it also means resisting those tempting quick wins. I really like the story Newport uses to illustrate this, the one about singer-songwriter Jewel. Oh, yeah, that's a good one. She was offered a million-dollar record deal early in her career, but turned it down.

because she wanted to keep creative control and protect the quality of her music. That's right. She wasn't willing to compromise. Even for a huge opportunity. Exactly. And it's a powerful example of how prioritizing quality sometimes means saying no shortcuts. No matter how tempting they might be. Exactly. It's about playing the long game and recognizing that true success usually comes from a commitment to excellence. Even if it means waiting a little longer. Exactly. It's like she had this vision for her music and she wouldn't let anything get in the way of that. And that commitment paid off.

big time. She went on to have a hugely successful career on her own terms. That's really inspiring. But how do we apply that to everyday knowledge work? It's easy to get caught up in deadlines and lose sight of that bigger picture. That's true. But Newport offers some great strategies for staying focused on quality. One thing he suggests is to constantly work on improving your taste. Our taste, like what we like and don't like. Exactly. He talks about this observation from filmmaker Ira Glass.

Glass says that all creative people start with good taste, but often there's a gap between what they admire and what they're actually able to produce. Oh yeah, I can relate to that. Right. But the key is to keep creating and keep pushing yourself to close that gap. So the more we see and experience great work, the better our own standards become. Exactly. It's like training your eye to recognize quality.

And another strategy is to surround yourself with people who push you to be better. Oh, having people to bounce ideas off of and get feedback from? Yeah. Think of groups like the Inklings with C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien. They met regularly to share their work, critique each other, and just inspire each other to reach new heights. It's like having a built-in support system to keep you accountable. Exactly. That kind of community can be a huge motivator.

And finally, Newport talks about the importance of betting on yourself. Betting on yourself. What does that mean? Putting yourself in situations where there's real pressure to succeed. Stepping outside of your comfort zone. Yeah, like taking on a challenging project or maybe even turning down a really lucrative opportunity if it doesn't align with your values. It's about trusting that you can handle it, even if it's a little scary. Exactly. It's about pushing yourself to grow and develop your skills.

So obsessing over quality isn't just about the work itself. It's about how that pursuit of excellence can impact our lives and our careers. Absolutely. It's about creating a work style that's both fulfilling and sustainable in the long run.

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. So we've talked about these three principles of slow productivity, but how do we actually put them into practice? How do we structure our work days to make this work? That's the million-dollar question, right? And Newport gives some pretty concrete tips for doing just that. For example, he suggests scheduling dedicated blocks of time for deep work. Deep work? What's that? It's those periods where you're totally focused on a single task, no distractions whatsoever. That sounds amazing, but honestly, impossible.

There's always emails, meetings, urgent requests. How do we actually create that kind of focused time? It's definitely a challenge, but it's doable, I promise. It's all about making small changes and finding what works for you. Newport suggests starting by identifying your core activities, the ones that really drive your success, the ones that have the biggest impact.

So figure out what really matters and focus on that. Right. And then you prioritize those activities, even if it means saying no to things that feel urgent but aren't actually that important. It's like being strategic with your time and energy.

Exactly. Focus on what moves the needle, not just filling your day with busy work. Okay, so we've identified those core activities. Then what? Then you start scheduling dedicated blocks of time for them. It might just be an hour or two at first, but trust me, even that can make a huge difference. Easier said than done though, right? What about all the distractions? Email, social media, everything vying for our attention. Yeah, that's the tough part. It's about creating boundaries, both internal and external. Okay, what does that mean?

Externally, it could mean turning off notifications, silencing your phone, finding a quiet workspace, whatever works for you. - So like creating a distraction-free zone. - Exactly, and internally, it's about cultivating that ability to focus, to really be present in the moment and resist that urge to constantly check email or scroll through social media. - So it's almost like we have to retrain our brains to focus. - In a way, yeah. We've become so used to being constantly stimulated. It takes practice, but it's possible.

Things like meditation and mindfulness exercises can help strengthen those focus muscles. Yeah, that makes sense.

You know, this is all starting to click for me, but I keep thinking we've talked about these individual strategies, but isn't there a bigger issue here? This pressure to always be on. It comes from somewhere, right? You're absolutely right. It's not all on us. Slow productivity isn't just about personal strategies. It's also about looking at the systems and structures that create this culture of overwork and busyness. Like our workplaces, our culture, the whole thing. Exactly. Newport argues that we need to rethink how we measure performance.

Instead of just looking at hours worked and how much we produce. Right. We need to focus on the quality and impact of the work being done. So it's about shifting the focus from quantity to quality, from busyness to meaning. Precisely. It's about creating a work culture that values deep thinking, creativity and innovation, not just checking boxes and hitting deadlines. It's about working smarter, not just harder. Exactly. And this conversation is so important right now. So many people are burned out.

disillusioned, looking for a different way to work and live. Yeah, it feels really timely. It really is. This conversation is long overdue. And while slow productivity isn't a magic solution, it gives us a powerful framework to rethink our relationship with work and create a more sustainable, fulfilling way of being in the world. And ultimately a more productive way of being too. Absolutely. And ultimately a more productive way of being too. Absolutely. So we've covered those first two principles of slow productivity.

Doing fewer things and obsessing over quality. Now let's talk about that third principle. Working at a natural pace. I'm curious.

How do we actually do that, especially in a world that's obsessed with deadlines and deliverables? Yeah, it's definitely a challenge, especially with all the pressure to constantly hustle and grind. Yeah, it feels like everyone's always rushing. It's like we're all supposed to be on 2047. But if you think about it, even those brilliant scientists like Galileo and Newton, they didn't work nonstop at some crazy speed. Right. They had lives, too. They did. They had periods of.

intense work, of course, but they also had breaks, retreats, time to think and reflect. So they weren't pushing themselves to the limit all the time. Nope, not at all. And their biggest discoveries, those happened over years, even decades. It's like those things need time to develop. Exactly. It's not about being lazy or unproductive. It's more about

recognizing that our energy levels naturally go up and down. We're not robots. We can't just work at the same pace constantly. Exactly. We're human beings, not machines. And if we try to force ourselves to work at this constant grind, we'll just burn out and lose our creativity.

And burnout helps no one. Definitely not. It just leads to lower quality work in the end. Right. And that's the opposite of what we want. Plus, taking breaks and resting isn't the enemy of productivity. It's actually super important for it. It is. It's essential for recharging and coming back to your work with fresh eyes. Yeah, I've definitely noticed that when I try to push through without breaks, I end up making more mistakes and the quality of my work suffers. It happens to all of us. It's like trying to drive a car without ever stopping properly.

for gas. Yeah. Eventually you're going to run out of fuel and be stranded on the side of the road. Exactly. We need to refuel our minds and bodies just like we refuel our cars. You mentioned earlier that Newport talks about seasonality at work, like aligning our work with natural rhythms the way people used to do before the Industrial Revolution. Yeah. It's a really interesting concept. Think about it like a farmer, right?

They don't try to plant and harvest crops year round. Right. They work with the seasons. They do. There are times for intense activity and times for rest and rejuvenation. And we can apply that same idea to knowledge work. So instead of always being on, we can adjust our intensity throughout the year, like maybe slowing down during certain months or blocking off certain days for focused work. Exactly. It's all about finding a rhythm that works for you, one that allows for both periods of intense activity and periods of rest and renewal.

And I guess that rhythm might look different for everyone. It will. It depends on your work, your personality, your energy levels, all sorts of things. Okay, I'm really starting to see how this whole natural pace idea fits into the bigger picture of slow productivity. But now I'm wondering about that third principle, obsess over quality. How do we actually do that?

especially when it's so easy to get caught up in deadlines and deliverables and just getting things done? That's a great question, and it's definitely a challenge. This principle is all about shifting our focus from just getting things done to creating work that's truly excellent, something we're proud of. It's about aiming for something more than just checking things off a list. Right. It's about putting your heart and soul into your work and creating something that truly matters. And that probably takes a lot more time and effort. It does.

It does. It requires patience and discipline, and it also means resisting those tempting quick wins. Because those don't always lead to the best results in the long run. Exactly. It's about focusing on the long game and recognizing that true success usually comes from a deep commitment to excellence. Even if it means waiting a little longer or putting in a little extra effort? Precisely. It's about having a vision for what you want to create and not settling for anything less.

I really like the story Newport uses to illustrate this, the one about singer-songwriter Jewel. Oh yeah, that's a good one. She was offered a million-dollar record deal early in her career, but turned it down because she wanted to keep creative control and protect the quality of her music. That's right. She wasn't willing to compromise her artist's vision for a quick payout.

even though it was a huge opportunity. Exactly. And it's such a powerful example of how prioritizing quality sometimes means saying no to shortcuts, no matter how tempting they might seem. It's about staying true to yourself and your values. Exactly. And you know what? That commitment paid off for Jewel in a big way.

she went on to have a hugely successful career on her own terms. - That's so inspiring, it shows that it really is possible to achieve both success and artistic integrity. - It is, and it's something we should all strive for in our own work. - But how do we apply that to everyday knowledge work? I mean, it's easy to get caught up in deadlines and deliverables and lose sight of that bigger picture. - I hear you, it's definitely a challenge, but Newport offers some really helpful strategies for staying focused on quality.

One thing he suggests is to constantly work on improving your taste. Our taste, like what we like and don't like. Exactly. He talks about this observation from filmmaker Ira Glass.

Glass says that all creative people start with good taste, but often there's this gap between what they admire and what they're actually able to produce. - Oh yeah, I can definitely relate to that. - Right, but the key is to keep creating, keep pushing yourself, and keep exposing yourself to great work. That way you can close that gap. - So the more we experience and engage with high quality work,

The better our own standards become. Exactly. It's like training your eye to recognize quality. And another strategy is to surround yourself with people who push you to be better. Oh, like having a network of mentors or peers who can give you feedback and support. Yeah. Think of those groups like the Inklings with C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien. They met regularly to share their work, critique each other and just inspire each other to reach new heights.

It's like having a built-in support system that keeps you accountable and helps you grow. Exactly. That kind of community can be incredibly motivating. And finally, Newport talks about the importance of betting on yourself. Betting on yourself. What does that mean exactly? It means putting yourself in situations where there's real pressure to succeed.

Like taking on a challenging project that stretches your abilities. Yeah, or maybe even turning down a really lucrative opportunity if it doesn't align with your values. So it's about taking risks and trusting that you can handle whatever comes your way. Exactly. It's about pushing yourself to grow and develop your skills. So obsessing over quality isn't just about the work itself.

It's about how that pursuit of excellence can impact our lives and our careers. Absolutely. It's about creating a work style that's both fulfilling and sustainable in the long run. Okay, this is all making so much sense now. We've talked about these three principles of slow productivity, but now I'm curious about how we actually put them into practice. Like, how do we structure our work days to make this work? That's a great question, and it's something a lot of people struggle with. Luckily, Newport offers some really concrete tips for doing just that. For example, he suggests...

scheduling dedicated blocks of time for deep work. Deep work, what is that exactly? It's those periods where you're completely focused on a single task, no distractions whatsoever. It's those periods where you're completely focused on a single task and no distractions whatsoever. That sounds amazing, but honestly...

- Impossible, there's always emails, meetings, urgent requests. How do we actually create that kind of focused time? - I know it can feel that way, but it is possible, I promise. It's all about making small changes and finding what works for you. Newport suggests starting by identifying your core activities, the things that really drive your success, the ones that have the biggest impact. - So figuring out what truly matters. - Right, and then you make sure to prioritize those activities, even if it means saying no to things that feel urgent,

but aren't actually that important. It's like being strategic with your time and energy. Exactly. Focus on what moves the needle, not just filling your day with busy work. Makes sense. So once we've figured out those core activities, what then? Then you start actually scheduling dedicated blocks of time for them. It might just be an hour or two at first, but trust me, even that can make a huge difference. Okay, that makes sense. But what about all the distractions? Email, social media, everything vying for our attention. Yeah, that's the tough part. It's about creating boundaries, both

internal and external. - Okay, so what does that look like? - Well, externally it could mean things like turning off notifications, silencing your phone, finding a quiet workspace, whatever you need to create that distraction-free zone. - So like actually setting up your environment for success. - Exactly, and then internally it's about cultivating that ability to focus, to really be present in the moment, resisting the urge to constantly check email or scroll through social media. - It's almost like we have to retrain our brains to focus.

In a way, yeah. We've become so used to being constantly stimulated, our attention spans have shrunk. But it's possible to rebuild those focus muscles. How? Like any tips? Definitely. Things like meditation and mindfulness exercises can really help. Hmm. Yeah, I've heard that. You know, this is all starting to click for me, but one thing I keep thinking about is this.

We've talked about all these individual strategies, but isn't there a bigger issue at play here? This pressure to always be on it comes from somewhere, right? You're absolutely right. It's not all on us as individuals. Slow productivity isn't just about personal strategies. It's also about looking at the systems and structures that create this culture of overwork and busyness. Like our workplaces, our culture, the whole thing. Exactly. Newport argues that we need to rethink how we measure performance.

So instead of just looking at how many hours we work or how much we produce. Right. We need to focus on the quality and impact of the work being done. So it's about shifting the focus from quantity to quality, from busyness to meaning. Exactly. It's about creating a work culture that values deep thinking, creativity and innovation, not just checking boxes and hitting deadlines. It's about working smarter, not just harder.

Exactly. And this conversation is so important right now. So many people are burned out, disillusioned, looking for a different way to work and live. It really does feel timely. It is. This conversation is long overdue. And while slow productivity isn't some magic solution to all our problems,

It gives us this really powerful framework to rethink our relationship with work and ultimately create a more sustainable, fulfilling way of being in the world. And a more productive one too. Absolutely. This has been such an insightful conversation. Thank you. We've explored those three core principles of slow productivity, doing fewer things, working at a natural pace, and obsessing over quality. We've talked about some practical strategies for actually putting these principles into practice.

And we even touched on some of those bigger systemic issues that contribute to this culture of overwork. It's been a great discussion. I'm glad we could dive into all of this. Me too. And as we wrap up this deep dive, I'm curious, is there one key takeaway, one piece of advice you'd like to leave our listeners with? You know, when I think about slow productivity, that image of John McPhee lying under that ashtray just keeps coming back to me. It's a powerful image. It is. And to me, it really captures the essence of what this is all about. It's about giving ourself permission to slow down,

to think deeply, to resist that urge to rush, and to trust that in time, the right path will emerge. It's about embracing the journey, not just chasing the destination. Exactly. And as you navigate the complexities of your own work and life, remember those wise words from John McPhee. You put a little drop in the bucket every day, and over time, the bucket gets full. I love that. Slow, consistent effort, a dedication to quality,

quality, the patience to let things unfold. That's the true path to lasting productivity and fulfillment. What a beautiful way to put it. So as we all head back into our busy weeks, let's try to remember that it's okay to slow down, to breathe, to focus on what truly matters. And maybe even spend a few minutes staring at a tree. Who knows what insights you might find. Great advice. Thank you so much for joining us on this deep dive into slow productivity. We'll see you next time.