Wendie Malick — on success after 70 and getting comfy with on-screen beau Harrison Ford
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Hi, it's Jesse.

Today on the show, you know her from Just Shoot Me, Hot Cleveland, and most recently from the Apple TV Plus series Shrinking, it's Wendy Malick. We're down to two horses and a miniature donkey and two dogs. A miniature donkey? Come on. People come over just to make out with him. He's so freaking beautiful. This is Dinners on Me, and I'm your host, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. ♪

Throughout her career, Wendy Malick has made a habit of playing women who have it all, or at least fake it fabulously. With sharp wit, impeccable timing, and a killer wardrobe, her characters juggle ambition and romance like seasoned pros, proving that success doesn't mean shutting the door on love, just, you know, maybe slamming it a few times first.

Whether she's strutting through a newsroom as a delightfully self-absorbed Nina Van Horn in Just Shoot Me, clinging to fame in martinis as soap diva Victoria Chase in Hot in Cleveland, or trading dry banter and real emotion as Dr. Julie Barham in Shrinking, Malick brings humor, heart, and humanity to every role. Her characters resonate because they refuse to choose between career and connection. They flirt, fall, flounder, and do it all in heels.

Through breakups, breakthroughs, and Botox jokes, Malick shows us that women can be complex, confident, and still open to love, preferably with a side of wine and sarcasm. Now, as someone who grew up watching Just Shoot Me, Wendy Malick's character, Nina Van Horn, was everything I thought a sitcom character should be—glamorous, hilarious, and whip-smart.

Getting to guest star opposite Wendy on Hot in Cleveland years later was surreal for me. We'd met before at a few parties, but spending that week with her and her element only deepened my admiration for her. She was just as warm, funny, and magnetic in real life as she is on the screen. So I was thrilled when she took me up on a meal, on me, after one of her days of shooting. Hey! Hey!

Oh my gosh, that's so good. How are you? Good, how are you?

I brought Wendy to Huckleberry in Santa Monica. Now, for any Angeleno, Huckleberry has been a morning destination for well over a decade. What started as a Santa Monica farmer's market-inspired pop-up at sister restaurant Rustic Canyon quickly morphed into a brick-and-mortar that would get folks lined up early for their pastry case full of biscuits, tarts, donuts, and so much more.

It's cozy, delicious, no frills vibe. Felt like the perfect spot for my friend, Wendy, who looks like a model but lives a very low-maintenance lifestyle out on a ranch in Topanga. Cozying up over some coffee and sandwiches just felt like the perfect treat. We also got a delightful surprise of some of Huckleberry's heavenly cakes and tarts, and now I'm already planning my next visit. Okay, let's get to the conversation. I was doing some research. I was like, oh, Wendy's been nominated for a lot of Emmys.

And Neri won. And she's been around forever. No, and never won. That's actually shocking to me, especially for Just Shoot Me. But yeah, that was the one. It should have been, I think. No, 100%. Yeah. And La Ha in Cleveland. Yeah, that was fun too, but that was almost like a derivative version of Just Shoot Me. I mean, Nina was the, I think that was...

That was probably the one that put me on the map the most. Oh, that's how I first got to know you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you're too young for Dream On. No, no. I'll be 50 this year. But you were a little, you were a child. I was. I was an adult. What was that, 1990? Yeah.

Yeah, so 90 to 95. I was in high school, yeah. But I did watch it. No, actually, your age group was the one who all thought, oh, this is exciting because it's so raunchy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Have you been here before? Yeah. You live in the neighborhood, right? I live in Topanga. Were you okay with the fires? They were all around us. It's so surreal. How long have you lived over there? 30 years. 30 years.

So basically the entire time you've been married. And you kind of live off the grid, right? Like you have land. Well, we did. We did. And we do have land. We have a ranch. And the first, when we lived in our little cabin while my husband was building the house, we were totally off the grid. People would come over and go, wow, it's a lot of nature. Where's your real house? Wow.

This is it. And if the sun doesn't shine, I don't blow dry my hair. That's the way it is. But it's beautiful. I mean, and we've got animals. What kind of animals do you have? We're down to two horses and a miniature donkey and two dogs. A miniature donkey? Come on.

People come over just to make out with him. What would you do in the fires if the fires had been more threatening? Well, because you can get stuck in there. You know, that's the scary part. So the Tuesday night when things were really insane and we evacuated the horses, we took them to Pierce. So the two horses and the donkey.

And it never really came into Topanga. Just tiny little bits of it. And we were a little worried, but they got them out. And it was surreal. I mean, it was like the world was on fire all around us. Yeah. It's just... No, it was so scary. We have chickens now. And I was like, I didn't know how... Are you in the country? Are you... No. No, I'm in Encino. But you have a good yard where you can do that. We have enough space. I have a chicken coop. But you don't have a rooster. No. No.

No, no, no. I also don't want them to procreate. You know, I'm like you. I want my chickens to be like you. No children. I actually, I have a daughter, an adopted daughter. Oh, we had to know this. I do. I do. Yep. No, she's technically my niece, but she, we adopted her because she's lived with us since she was five. I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. So she's 23, lives in New York city.

Singer, songwriter, actress, biochemist. So you say she's technically your niece. Yeah. She's your... Brother's daughter. Okay, got it, got it, got it. That has lived with us since she was five. Oh my gosh, I had no idea. Yeah, yeah. Because what I was reading is, you know, you were talking about how you decided not to have children. Well, I mean, you didn't.

have children technically through your body. But I mean, I always have found that interesting when people make that decision and also have such clear motherly maternal instincts as well. Do you think I do? I feel like you have maternal instincts. I always had maternal instincts about animals. Yeah. I mean, that was like a no brainer. It's so easy to love them. They love you forever. They forgive you everything. And so I've always had dogs and since Topanga moved

I've had horses and donkeys. Yeah, right, right, right. Interesting to get to this point in your life. I know, sure. It changes things. We sort of tried kids initially, and it wasn't in the cards. And I thought, well, that's the universe telling me that I'm going to have kids in my life in a different way. And then this came along, and it was probably the best lesson I've ever had in terms of

how you have to make room for somebody else in your life. We had some challenging times. She was kind of a wild kid the way I was when I was that age, but I got away with it because my parents had no idea. You were an only child, right? No, oldest of three. Oh, really? Yeah. You said that as if there's a type who's an only child. Do you think there is? Well, I'm an oldest as well, but for some reason, I just felt like you were an only child. I don't know why. I got all the attention. There it is. Hi.

Hi! How are you guys doing today? Good! I'm hungry. Welcome to Huckleberry. Do you guys have any questions? No, I think I'm gonna have your tuna melt on the multi-grain, is it multi-grain toast? Yeah. Yeah, I'd love that. Thank you. That sounds really delicious. It's really good here. They make excellent tuna. It's actually our sourdough toast. Okay, that's good. I trust you. Okay. Completely. You know what? I think I'm gonna do the same thing. Yeah, that sounds really good. Can I start you guys with something to drink as well? I'll do a lemonade, please.

Thank you. Yeah, of course. Appreciate it. So do you miss, like, having the schedule of a series? Yes. Isn't it amazing how that just sort of bookends your life in this way? And it also, what I'm realizing more and more, and especially in this last year, which seems like it's been six months since Christmas. Yeah, truly. But to have a safe place to go play with your friends and get out of reality for a while is such a gift.

just such a gift. I shot an episode of mid-century modern with Max Muchnick and Nathan Lane and Matt Bomar. Linda Latham, I got to do the last. And she died. It was, it was the episode that we shot right before Christmas and she passed away over the holidays. I know Bruce Grayson does my makeup on Nightcore and he just loved Linda so much. And he was stunned, absolutely stunned because she was so on her game and the whole thing. So on her game. I had,

great conversations with her. I saw her at Sarah Paulson's 50th birthday party and she was just, you know, like the life of the party. She was doing so well and this all happened so fast. You just don't know, do you? You don't know. Just being on that set reminded me how much specifically I love doing multi-camera. You know, it's such a joy. Well, you need to come do Night Court if it comes back this season. I would love to. Oh, they'd love to have you. Yeah. I'll tell them. I would love to. I mean, also Night Court, you know, I loved that growing up.

John Larquette. I loved it. He's quite amazing. Yeah, I mean, I've watched a few episodes. He's fantastic. How did it feel to go into something that was a reboot and sort of has that history? I was so stunned that they invited me because I had done a guest thing. I did a couple guest things on that where I played a criminally insane woman that John had put into...

the slammer many years ago. And then I came back for another one and suddenly they said, well, we'd like to make you a regular. And I said, how? I'm criminally insane. Yeah, yeah. They said, no, no, no, but it's Project Second Chance. And it turns out you were a lawyer before you went to jail. And I went, oh, this is like Dynasty or Dallas or something. It's so good. I mean, they can make anything work on TV if they want to. Yeah, yeah. If you've died, they can figure out a way to, you're a twin now, you know. Yeah.

It's hilarious. But I'm just so happy. I'm always grateful for the work. I love the work. But also, like, between Night Court and Shrinking, I feel like you're being given an opportunity to do things that you haven't really gotten to do before because...

We worked together on Hot in Cleveland, which was an absolute dream. And I want to talk to you more about that because the episode I got to do had that big Mary Tyler Moore reunion, which was just an insane thing to be a part of. But, you know, I feel like with that character, Victoria and then Nina, you were saying it's sort of also a version of Victoria. They're kind of like Russian nesting dolls if you were like to put them in the same pool.

Going back to the same well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before, just give her a little twist. Now she's an ambitious sub-op actor. Well, first of all, you're really good at playing these types of women, you know, these very sexually vivacious, you know... Neurotic.

But also, they come from these sort of glamorous lives. Nina was a former model. And Victoria was a soap opera star. But they were also very self-possessed. What I was always struck by is how self-assured they were and how they really took care of themselves. And sometimes their love life even took a backseat to what they wanted. They were very empowered women. Well, I think that it was weird because with Night Court, I thought, well, the thing that would make this character interesting for me is if...

When she's on her meds, she does a really good job, but she doesn't stay on her meds all the time. So there's a little danger in her that could go off the rails at any time, which they've been pretty good about. And with shrinking, that's probably the closest to me of any character I've ever played. Yeah.

And it's just showing up and just reading the script and it's all there on the page. It's like the relationships they've built among these characters. I think it's the genius of Bill Lawrence. Bill Lawrence is so great. Yeah, and Brad Goldstein. I mean, those guys are so good at...

Finding the heart, the funny, but also making you care enough. And those are always, I think, the ones growing up for me. I remember watching Taxi and thinking, how amazing in 23 minutes or whatever they give us for a half hour comedy, that it could bring you to tears and make you laugh out loud. And that was really extraordinary. I remember, I think that was the first show where I watched and I thought,

wow, you can run the whole gamut in a little comedy, a sitcom with an audience. But that's a really tricky thing to do. It is. It's something you have to, I think you have to earn the trust of the audience. You can't start always, although Modern Family, I guess, tried that a little bit at the beginning. But

But over time, and it was what you were saying before about shrinking, I think that people, it took the first season of that show for people to sort of get past the bigness of these characters and to find out the little quirks and the vulnerabilities in them. And then it's so much more satisfying to follow them down whatever road they're going to take you. And you're invested. And, you know, in your show, in Modern Family, you started to really care about these people. The more time you spent with them, the more you realized that they...

They were fragile and they're outrageous sometimes, but also just with huge heart. And it goes back to the heart. And I think that's what really develops deep relationships between audiences and cast, you know.

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Wendy explains why working with Harrison Ford felt like slipping into an old pair of jeans. And we share some outrageous behind-the-scenes tales of Cloris Leachman being hilarious and chaotic on the set of Hot in Cleveland. Okay, be right back. All right, let's talk about something near and dear to my heart.

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There's no safe like SimpliSafe. And we're back with more Dinners on Me. Speaking of shrinking, specifically, you have this wonderful relationship with Harrison Ford. You're his therapist, right? I'm his neurologist. Neurologist, that's right, that's right. He has Parkinson's. He's kept some secrets about his health from his loved ones. And Harrison Ford's a therapist. And you have this beautiful relationship.

budding romance and it's these two people in their 70s like dating oh he's in his 80s in real life right I think he's supposed to be 70 yeah late 70s yeah I know he's like he's in his early 80s yeah um but I think it's just so refreshing also to see old people getting it on yeah but also just like what that means and like that sort of

late in life love. I mean, how has that been for you to explore that with Harrison? So beautiful. Yeah. Wonderful. I had done another series for Bill Lawrence and he said, I've got a nice role for you to play Harrison Ford's neurologist and you have this great chemistry and I'd never met him.

before this show. And I thought, you know, that's a lot of pressure. But he was, from the beginning, so lovely and put me so at ease. And we just got each other and I felt like, I said, you're like an old pair of jeans. That's how comfortable I feel with you. And we have a really good time and I just feel very safe in that relationship and that we can take it wherever we need to. Yeah, yeah. It's really nice. He's not...

You're known for incredible work in comedy, but when you think of comedy, you don't think about Harrison Ford. He's really funny. But he is hilarious. Oh, no, he is so dry and loves to sort of play the curmudgeon, but he's a sweetheart. It's been just a gift. Everybody in that cast is bringing it and...

It's been really, really lovely. I couldn't have asked for a sweeter job right now. When we first started Hunt in Cleveland, I was turning 60. Jane and Valerie were turning 50, and Betty was turning 90. And I remember thinking, I don't think I could have made up a better situation for me to be in at this age. Because that was really scary, thinking, oh my God, they say you go out to the desert when you're 40 as a woman in this business. And here I am about to turn 60, and I thought,

oh my God, this woman is having a renaissance and she's going to be 90. Yeah. And it just made me think of it in such a different way. It was like, you have a whole other act, you know? And this act has been really sweet. And I think one of the best things about it is you get to a certain age and you don't sweat the small stuff so much. It's sort of like, what's really important to you? What do you love? What brings you joy? And how do you...

What's the best part of you you can fan out into the world every day? You just don't waste time on bullshit that is really meaningless or is not bringing you some joy. Right, right. What do you consider a full life now? I mean, is it beyond career? Yeah. I think the balance of career. So I used to say yes to everything. It didn't matter if it took me over to...

bumfuck Illinois. I didn't care. I just love to travel and experience. I just played Santa Claus in Toronto. I say yes. I've still seen it say yes. I got it, honey. You're much younger than me. I get it. I get it. This is fairly recent. No, but all of a sudden I'm thinking, damn, it's much, much harder for me to go away now. It's like, yeah.

You know, I have an older husband. I've got old animals. I've got a beautiful ranch and friends. And I'm just so grateful that I get to do most of my work here. You're very lucky, especially right now. You're very, very lucky for sure. You've been working pretty solidly for a long time, haven't you? I think so. I mean, before you did Modern Family, was it much more irregular? Well, I did mostly theater.

Which is, you know, just in and of itself irregular because, you know. That's true. Could be opening night, might be the end. Exactly. Thank you. Oh my God, this looks incredible. Thank you, thank you. So good. Okay. So I did two shows right before Modern Family. One of them was The Class with David Crane.

David Crane, who you did Dream On with. But I had ups and downs. I still feel like I have ups and downs. I mean, it's interesting because you say I've been working consistently. And I guess when it's you and it's your career. You don't know the dark nights of the soul. You only feel the moments where you're not doing anything. Yeah.

And it's also weird because people will see stuff that you did maybe a year or two years ago and think that everything is current. Someone just said, you know, I love your show. And I'm like, I'm not on a show. And I was like, well, of course they mean Modern Family because maybe they're watching it for the first time. And then reruns. Yeah, reruns, yeah.

But, you know, for me, coming out of Modern Family, and I talk about this a lot with the rest of my cast, but it's that challenge that you're faced with after leaving a show that you're known for of, you know, reinventing yourself or making sure that the industry is still looking at you with fresh eyes. But I feel like there's that ability to sort of lean into a thing that you do and

But even that is scary sometimes because you think, well, I'm just going to be pigeonholed as this one thing. And it seems that you have not pigeonholed yourself or you've been really successful. And probably that is where theater really helped you, where you were able to really branch out and do other things and people know you theatrically as somebody who's a whole...

much bigger range and that for me sometimes doing plays and also doing little indie films that's been such a great I mean I played Amelia Earhart it was a wonderful little movie and done on you know a wing and a prayer but um

But things like that just bring me so much joy to get to play this old kind of bird who's sort of tough. Yeah. No, absolutely. I want to talk about Hot Cleveland for a little while because truly that episode I got to do, John Hayes, who produced it, called me and said, we have a part for you if you want to do it. It's so hilarious. It is. It is. So ridiculous. It was a ridiculous role. I had webbed hands.

I don't remember too much more about my character than he had webbed hands. No, you had webbed hands. Were we on dates? Every year, we'd set each other up on dates. And my dates invariably had some physical creepiness. You had the webbed hands. Another year, somebody had a nose coming out of his head. And then the other one was conjoined twins. That's amazing.

So, you know, it was sold to me as like, he has wet hands, this is funny. But also, in this episode, it's basically a Mary Tyler Moore reunion. With Mary Tyler Moore being a guest actress on this episode, Boris Leachman, Georgia Engel, obviously Betty White. Is that it? No, and who died? Um...

Oh, um, Valerie Harper. Valerie Harper as well. That was like one of those pinch me moments. Yeah, I want to hear your perspective on that because Betty White, you know, is a regular on the show. So she, this was her day job. Then all these people who come in from her past, and I'm sure she has different relationships with all these women as we all do with people who we work with. And I think, at least for me, it was such an iconic moment seeing all these women together. But then also to observe the...

The nuances between them and seeing like, oh, Flores Leishman kind of gets under Betty White's skin and like, you know, all these like... She was so naughty. So naughty. She came in one day brushing her teeth. Oh, yeah. You were there that morning. She showed up and said, oh, I'm so mad at everybody at home. And they lived in Topanga. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were doing work on the house and she just ran out and had a fight with...

And got in the car and the driver brought her in and she said, anybody got a toothbrush? I had to leave home in my pajamas, in my robe. Yeah. But she just always needed to have attention. But she truly is, was one of the most talented, amazing women. She was a concert pianist. Yeah. I remember I was at a few different events.

events with her and just before you go out on stage she'd come up and just mess your hair up yes and she did that to Mary and I think Betty took her aside and said knock it off because you know Mary this is towards the end shortly before she died and I think it was the last time she was ever on camera but she had you know diabetes and her hair was so fragile everything about her was so fragile and Cloris just can't resist you know

I was one of those people who needed to get attention and got very mischievous. Yeah, I remember she was coming up and she was inserting herself into this scene that I had. I just remember she was wanting to do something. She wasn't a part of the scene. She wanted to do something with me. And I'm like, I'm not going to talk to Laura Sleesman, no. But surely someone of a higher power is going to stop her. And Georgia Engel finally came up to me and was like,

you can't let her do that. She's an Oscar-winning actress. She knows better. I was like, I'm not going to do anything. I'm going to let someone else tell her that she can't do that. And, you know, eventually the director came over and was like, ah, let's, like, maybe not do that thing you were doing. Andy Cato, probably. Yes, yeah, probably, probably. But one thing I remember so specifically, there was a moment where all of those cast members were sitting around a table together, and they just started reminiscing and talking about

different cameraman on the show or do you remember so and so and the cameraman of Hot in Cleveland just put their cameras down and we all just like let them catch up for a little while and people started slowly taking out their phones and recording and I have footage of them just sort of catching up and then at one point Betty White was like what are we doing can we move on like she was saying again like this was her job she came in every day and like it was fun for her to catch up but she also wanted to keep the ball rolling yeah yeah yeah yeah

I mean, we had so many of those days, like with Don Rickles, with Tim Conway. But one of my favorites was Carol Burnett played my mother. I know. I just kept thinking, I never in a million years, when I was a kid and watched that show every Saturday night,

thought this woman someday is going to be my mom. There's a great blooper of when she was on and you entered into the scene and a recreation of the famous Bob Mackie. I was wearing the drapes. Yeah, the drapes. And she just loses it. So fun. So much fun. Did you guys ever do a, you never did a live show?

a live show, did you? Not with the Modern Family, no. We did live table reads for what they do before your consideration events and stuff. And that was always really fun for me because I love that immediate response. But that was the closest we ever got to doing a live show. Do you think that show would have worked if it was multicam?

Hey, it just would have been a different thing. So much of it was the fact that it was a mockumentary, although we never explained what this was. In a very early version of Modern Family, they had written in the character of a foreign exchange student that had stayed with Mitchell, my character, and Claire when we were young. And he was coming back to do a documentary about this family he lived with when he was a kid. He was a foreign exchange student. And the title of it was My American Family. And they ended up cutting...

bad character and then rename it Modern Family. But, you know, the construct of, like, it's still being a mockumentary was there, but we never explained why. And then, like, you know, in the very early seasons, we would really try and

hold on to the reality that we were with a thumb crew. It's funny because I don't even remember thinking about that. But if you watch early episodes, they're like, oh, it actually is feasible that this is a reality show. Yeah. And then like, you know, season five, six, it's just like, we're opening our doors, coming home from like getting groceries. There's a camera crew in our house. Like no one questions that. Yeah.

Now for a quick break, but don't go away. When we come back, Wendy shares how she and Betty White bonded over their love for animals, the blunt advice she gave David Spade about dating a certain celebrity friend of mine, and how she nearly ended up as Harrison Ford's on-screen love interest 30 years ago. Okay, be right back.

Some of my favorite episodes of Dinners on Me are episodes that happen over a good glass of wine. Patricia Clarkson, Keri Russell, Margo Martindale, they gave me some of the best stories I have ever heard over a glass of wine. They definitely opened up. I mean, maybe it was the food or, you know, maybe it was the wine. I'm just saying.

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And we're back with more Dinners on Me. Do you think Just Shoot Me, you said Just Shoot Me was really kind of what put you on the map, right? I mean, I know you'd worked before. Dream On sort of launched my career. But hardly anybody saw it because it was on HBO in the early days. Right. Around what age were you when that happened?

Well, I didn't do Dream On until I was 40. So in my 30s, I was just knocking around doing guest things and movies of the week and some off-off-Broadway and stuff like that. I'm a very late bloomer is what I'm saying. That's why I'm still working because I started so late. Yeah. So I didn't use up all my acting lives. But she went to college for acting, right? Yeah. I was a fine arts major with a minor in theater, but that was mainly the idea. It was either be an actress or be a veterinarian and...

I wasn't terribly good at science. So that decision was made for me. Yeah, but you still have that love of animals, obviously, is still so important to you. Yeah. When your mom was modeling, was it like kind of it was at the 40s and 50s that she was modeling? Yeah, probably 48, 49 in there. And she was in New York and she was beautiful, really beautiful.

And my dad went and said, you need to come back and marry me. They had met at University of Buffalo. And he was nine years older. He was there on the GI Bill. So much happened, though, during that time, specifically in that industry. You know, when your mom was modeling...

the idea of like what a woman was in the household was so different, you know, in the forties and the fifties. And, you know, when you were modeling, it was like the beginning of like the sexual revolution and like such a different thing. Did your mom ever talk about like what it was like to sort of be in that industry?

She had a blast. And my mother, it was funny, when I first saw Mad Men, I thought, boy, this is so not like what my mom and her friends are like. Right. Because they were really fun, and they were kind of bodacious. Interesting. Yeah. I just used to listen to them, and I'd imitate them all the time. I've stolen shamelessly from my mother and all of her friends for characters.

But they were really funny, great senses of humor. But they just laughed all the time. And she was gorgeous. But I don't think she ever really knew who she was. So she was not at all full of herself. She was very, very grounded. But she was working as a model. Yeah. People were paying to take photos of her. But she loved being a mom. And she just was a very happy human being and seemed to embrace every stage of her life. Most of my good qualities come from her.

I love that. How long did she live? 94. Wow, that's a great life. My dad was 101. That's incredible. I know. He was half Egyptian, so I...

I bless his heart. He gave me good skin and longevity. Yeah, he did. Yeah, and she gave me grace and humor. I've been thinking, I mean, I'm turning 50 this year, and I've been thinking a lot about, you know, just you start doing that math of like where you're going to be, you know, especially if you have children, like how old would I be when my kids my age? I have two kids now, a four and a half year old and a two year old. Wow. And, you know, my mom passed away in November, and she was 76, which is so young.

But you got to meet your kids, though. She got to meet my kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Do you have a boy and a girl? Two boys. Yeah. So when I hear people living to 101, I mean, first of all, that just fills me with so much joy because I kind of hope that for myself. Like, I love the idea that if my mom had been able to live that way, she would have had a whole fourth act of her life. Oh, absolutely. You know? Yeah. Yeah, that's incredible. That's incredible that your dad lived that long. But we never know. Yeah, you never know. We never know. George and I used to do the New York Times crossword puzzle in the morning before rehearsal.

And then he would flip to the obituaries and go...

oh, they're calling my class. And I thought, man, that's what starts to happen. I think we have to savor every day that we have here because if you let the noise make you too insane, particularly with things that are out of your control for the most part, it's like you have to really be surgical about how you're going to engage and how you can meaningfully start to move the needle. But you don't want to give up whatever this is every day. You know, it's like I have to start my day every day with a,

a gratitude ritual of thank you for what remains. Thank you for the beauty of this amazing world we live in. Thank you for those I love and send out healing and for us to be kinder to each other and, you know,

Just a reset with an intention of not squandering what we have left. Right. You seem so grounded. Well, I'm insane some of the time. In what ways are you insane? But I'm much better than I used to be. I mean, every once in a while, I'll just start to spin out and just it's all too overwhelming. Oh, same. And my husband is so good at going, okay. Take a deep breath.

This is not your fight. Just kind of putting it in perspective a little bit. Your husband's a carpenter, is it? He's a builder. Builder, yeah, yeah. And how did you two meet? In a slum in Tijuana. Wait, say that again? In a slum in Tijuana, Mexico. What? With this group from Brentwood Presbyterian Church. And, um...

My ex-husband and I had split up. And Mary Kay Place, who was a dear friend, said, "You need to get out of your own way and go do something with somebody else. So why don't you come on this trip through this church?" And we got there. They were the rowdiest bunch, and they were singing around the kumbaya, around the campfire. But it was a really great group of people. And Richard was like the foreman. And one night we were all sleeping in a field, this farmer's field with tents and stuff.

And I went out to pee in the field in the middle of the night, and I went behind what I thought was a rock, and it was Richard. You peed on him. You marked your territory. That was the beginning. And then the next day he said, so what's your story? And I went, well, I don't know. What's yours? And by the end of the weekend he said, how would you feel about...

learning how to ride a motorcycle and going to Africa with me this summer. And I thought, that is like the best imitation I've ever had. That was so different from any guy I'd ever known. And he was handy. So we learned how to ride motorcycles and went to Africa the next summer and

Can we go to Paris sometime instead? Yeah. It's been 30 years. Did you just celebrate your 30th anniversary? It's going to actually be this December. Oh, happy anniversary. That's incredible. I know your ex-husband was in the business and you said you dated musicians and actors and people in the business. I mean, what was, because when you met him, you were doing really well. You were on a show and you were a famous actress. What was that like for him?

I think it's a tricky thing when you're someone in the public eye. And I think it does take someone with a good sense of themselves to be able to live with us. I don't think it's easy. Yeah. You know? There's a lot of sacrifices that have to happen. Yeah. Yeah. I also feel like there's something to meeting someone...

later in not the 40s is late in life but like you know if you've had relative I think there's something about your independence feels like it's more sacred so like going away I find that going away and spending time away from Justin is so healthy do you want some coffee yeah can I just have a black coffee black coffee of course um could I do a um can I do a decaf coffee

Decaf Americana is okay? I've never worked with a decaf. Decaf Americana is great. Okay, awesome. I'll be right back. Thank you. I wanted to ask a little bit just more about Betty White because she was such a... She's getting a forever stamp. She's getting a stamp?

They're doing a forever stamp of Betty. Oh, no way. We were supposed to all go and speak, but I'm going to be in Canada. Pretty great. I mean, truly. We're going to do a big thing at the zoo. She used to be the president of the zoo. Yeah. Yeah, she was a huge animal lover. Did you guys bond over that? Totally. Yeah, I'm sure. No, she used to do this thing where people would come to her and say, can I show you a picture of my baby? And she'd go, oh, yes, I'd love to see it. And then she'd go, oh, it's a child. Yeah.

Oh, she's so good. Yeah, she was. I mean... You know, the other thing she said she always wanted to be, her parents took her camping all the time. Uh-huh. But she was thinking she would have been a forest ranger if she wasn't an actress. Really? Yeah. She loves the outdoors. It's incredible. Wow. She came over to my house for lunch. She loved to be around the animals. And she came for lunch, and I'd give her a tuna sandwich, red vines, Diet Coke...

She lived on hot dogs. She liked hot dogs. And somebody said, oh, maybe somebody should talk to her about her diet or something. He said, are you kidding me? This woman is like 90. Whatever she's doing is working. She's gorgeous. She's hilarious. And she's brilliant. Yeah. No, she was the best. What a gift to have that time with her. Truly. Yeah, it really was. I mean, I was lucky to have that week. But thank you so much. Thank you. It's very good. When you were doing Just Shoot Me...

I think David Spade and Julie Bowen were dating. Right? Yes. He was pretty smitten with her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

She speaks so highly of him. She absolutely adores him. Obviously, that relationship did not work out. He screwed it up. That's what she alluded to. We were all kind of thinking, don't mess this up. This one's smart and beautiful, and she got your number. And I think he realized it. Yeah. Yeah. Was she around? She did a guest thing on Just Shoot Me. Oh, she did? Yeah. And yeah, I think that was when I first met her.

And she was adorable and really funny. And yeah, I just remember thinking, stupid idiot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. I love that. I love these stories. I have a few of them myself, but like parts you auditioned for that you didn't get. And Diane and Cheers is one of them. I bet every woman my age auditioned for that. Do you know if there was like significant interest? Were you like in like callbacks? I was called back.

And then when I saw her, I thought, well, she's way went a totally different way. And she was brilliant in it. Yeah, no, that was one that got away. And then I auditioned for, I had done an Excedrin commercial when I was first living in New York. That was like one of those gifts that keeps on giving, you know, where you're thinking, oh my God, my MasterCard or my American Express thing is, what was that? What danger? What fresh hell is this? What are you doing to us? Oh my God, they keep coming. What is that? Is this every dessert on the menu? Yeah.

So the famous one that we have is our chocolate pudding. We also have a peanut butter and cookie. That looks delicious. This is a peanut butter cookie? Peanut butter cookie. The jelly inside, so like a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. So dangerous. We also have our polenta cake. It is gluten-free. That's a polenta cake? That looks really delicious. That looks good. And that's not too sweet, right? It's not too sweet, no. And then we have our fresh fruit tarts with our raspberries and our grapefruits with a little bit of pistachio on top.

Insane. Fresh fruit tart. That's what they called me in high school. Okay. Oh, it's gorgeous. Thank you. Thank you. That looks gorgeous. I might have to have a little bit of each. It's called dye. Sugar dye. Ugh. Yeah. Oh, but anyway, so I did this eccentric commercial. And every time my rent would be due or something was happening, you know, I was waitressing on the side. These wonderful residual checks would come in. And apparently, Steven Spielberg used to watch a lot of commercials, and that's when he would get ideas of who he wanted to see for things. I get this call, and...

Steven Spielberg, who I don't think I knew who he was at that time. And this guy, George Lucas, want you to come in to meet them. They love the way you have a headache. I had a fabulous headache. It was on Valentine's Day, and I remember I was wearing, from Only Hearts, I had a red hoodie and red jeans on, with hearts all over the front of them.

And I didn't know what I was going in there for. And they said, we just we saw you at a commercial and I think you might be the right type for this character, Grace, in the first Indiana Jones movie. And I went, really? And we just talked and they put me on film and they just interviewed me and stuff. And we laughed and had a lovely time. And I was there for, I don't know, like 45 minutes or something. And they said, OK, so they'll send you sides and you come back on Monday and we'll do a screen test.

I said, cool. Happy Valentine's Day. And I went home. I got completely snockered that night. I think I got stoned. I was drinking. I was just like, ah, this is it. And then they called me, like, the next morning and said, can you go in, like, now? Because they have to go to London, like, tomorrow. Were you hungover? Oh, yeah. And I wasn't prepared. I hadn't done anything. I was at my boyfriend's house. I didn't have the right clothes. I didn't have anything. And I just really sucked at that thing. And when I saw the movie, I thought,

That I would have killed him. You would have killed that. I would totally kill him.

I mean, Karen's lovely, but I just was really pissed off at myself. So that was the one I blew up, and it was really sad. I told Harrison that story. He goes, really? I was going to ask if you told Harrison, yeah. But I love those moments, too, though, when you come back around to that, like, oh, no, I'm actually working with Harrison. Yeah, it does take a while. Yeah, it does take a little while. It just took me 50 years. But I feel the same about, you know, Diane a little bit, because you ended up on Frasier, you know, working with Kelsey Grammer, and, like, you know, it sort of—

coming at that world from a different way. And John Mahoney. John Mahoney. Did you ever work with him? Never did. Huge fan of his. No, John was so dear. That was really fun to be part of that last season of that show. Yeah. Yeah. That's TV history. We have overlapped a lot with the people we've worked with between Steve LaTam and Crystal Lloyd and David Crane. Um,

So I feel like I'm on the right track because you've done really well. I feel like you have a future in this business. Do you? Do you write, too? No, I direct a little bit, but I don't write. Did you direct any Modern Families? No, I didn't. I was too scared because— Would you rather direct something you're not in?

I think so. Although I feel like I regret not taking the opportunity to direct an episode of Modern Family because that crew was so, they were my family and it would have felt so comfortable doing that with them. They would have taken care of me. I know all that, you know, the camera crew, the DP, like they're all just so lovely and I should have taken advantage of that.

Julie Bowen directed an episode, two episodes, and she did a great job. And seeing how well she handled it made me wish I had. I just had this, like, nightmare of me telling Ed O'Neill what to do after a 10-year relationship that I had with him that I cherished so much. I didn't want him to, like...

Like, have any ill will toward me. You know, like, don't tell me what to do. He wouldn't have because he is so respectful. I had so much fun with him that day I worked with you guys. I know. I know. He's the greatest. He's the greatest. Hilarious. I mean, and he truly is so supportive of me. But, yeah, I never directed one, and I wish I had. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When you are looking back on...

you know, your career and the eras that you've been able to move through. I mean, how do you think about Hollywood and ageism now? And like, how do you think that they've changed? Because I feel like you've done, I don't know if you've just been lucky, but it feels like you've been very supported by these roles that you've been able to play. But I don't know if that's just luck or if that's just...

Tenacity? Like what? I don't know. I think part of it is luck and timing, you know? And then if you do get the opportunity being incredibly grateful and leaving it on the mat every time you get a chance to play. And it's really surreal because for me,

The last couple of years, I've had more work than I've ever had in my career. You're literally juggling two TV shows. I'm on three. That's right. That's right. That's right. The one in Vancouver. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like an embarrassment of riches. I feel a little bit embarrassed about it. So then I think, okay, well, I'm on these shows, so now I just have to get my friends on these shows. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I do is immediately find out, okay, go to the casting people, the executive producer. These are the people we need to get on the show this year. Uh-huh.

Yeah. Nepotism. Yeah. Ever since I met you when I first came to LA, like you've always just been so kind and so lovely and generous. And what, why wouldn't we be? We caught the brass ring. I know. There's so many people and I'm sure you know this. I know. I know. And I, I tell people too, just remember we were going to put a sign up on hot in Cleveland on the set saying, leave your diva at the door because thank goodness they all were really good women. And, um,

But I think there's something about being generous when you have an opportunity to be in a great show. It's like when we have guests, I go up to the guests and say, welcome. We're so happy to have you here. Because I know how much that means to me when I step... Because we're still little kids and it's the first day of school. That's right. It is. When you're not a regular on something or if you're joining a film or a play and things are up and running, it's...

You're kind of like, is anybody going to sit with me at lunch? I mean, I still think about that. I wonder if they'll be nice. That's right. But if you believe, I think that we're all either canine or feline. Okay.

And I'm definitely canine. Uh-huh. So you realize, okay, some people are going to sit back and watch and wait to see my baby. That's the feline. I'm not saying I'm always outgoing. Yeah. But I know I'm more canine than feline. So if it's up to me to be the first person to say, hey, I'm Wendy. How are you? Yeah. That just can be enough to soften somebody and let them know I'm lying on my back, my paws are in the air, and I'm not going to threaten you. And I just want to sniff your butt. I just want to sniff your butt.

I just want to sniff your butt. But not in a bad way. In a friendly way. Thank you for doing this with me. Oh, it's my pleasure. I really love you so much. I love you too. And dinner's on me. Don't worry. I know it is. This episode of Dinner's on Me was recorded at Huckleberry in Santa Monica.

Next week on Dinner's On Me, you know her from the Netflix series Three-Body Problem and more recently starring opposite Aaron Paul in the sci-fi flick Ash. It's Aza Gonzalez. We'll get into her journey from teen stardom in Latin America to breaking into Hollywood and what she's learning working alongside stars like Aaron Paul, Natalie Portman, and John Krasinski.

And if you don't want to wait until next week to listen, you can download that episode right now by subscribing to Dinners On Me Plus. As a subscriber, not only do you get access to new episodes one week early, you'll also be able to listen completely ad-free. Just click Try Free at the top of the Dinners On Me show page on Apple Podcasts to start your free trial today.

I'm Jesse Tyler Ferguson. Join me next week.

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