The Wildfires and the Pollution They Create
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So can we cut the cake now? You betcha. No-cost eye exams are for eligible seniors at all participating locations with costs covered by provincial health care. Conditions apply. See Specsavers.ca. You're listening to an exclusive podcast of Fight Back on Zoomer Radio. Heard weekdays from noon to one. Now, Fight Back with Libby Snymer on Zoomer Radio.

Good afternoon and welcome. It's Thursday. Time to talk about all things municipal. And our people here today are not going to talk all over each other, unlike the participants in yesterday's debate here at Zoomer Hall. Now, generally, that kind of thing leaves a very bad impression with voters, so I don't know why they do it, especially Zoomer voters. But I'm going to talk about all things municipal.

And my trusty buzzer was not enough to keep them in control, at least not all the time. I am looking forward to our panel's take on who got through and who connected, even though everyone did.

seems to agree that the city is in decline, I still haven't seen a clear ballot issue emerging for everyone.

And, you know, I'm not sure there is even an appetite for change, and maybe that's why Olivia Chow maintains such a big lead in the poll. She is familiar to us after serving many years in various capacities, but I caution, that was a long time ago, especially in political time. And yesterday confirmed, if you're backing her, that...

we will not know how much taxes would go up under her watch. The other things that struck both me and Anthony Quinn of CARP is why so much money gets to bureaucrats and is stuck there. We'll get to the saga of the one-year-old seniors housing corporation momentarily. And to begin with,

This is disturbing, and I think an aspect of what we're going through as a city, though it's not a city responsibility. The man who threatened mayoral candidates, shut down a debate and some campaigns, is now out on bail. And he was breaching bail conditions on a sexual assault charge when he was arrested for this. And now it's time to tune into the town.

And now I'd like to welcome David Crombie, former mayor of Toronto, Karen Stintz, CEO of Variety Village and a former city councillor and mayoral candidate, and Councillor Paula Fletcher, Ward 14, Toronto, Danforth. Hello and welcome. Thanks for joining us. Hi, Libby. Okay, who wants to start? What did you make of yesterday's debate?

You had your hands full, but you did a good job. Okay, thank you. Under very difficult circumstances, Libby. Okay, I'm not sure everyone agrees with that. David, what did you think? Well, unfortunately, I was in the bush on retreat. Okay. Very early this morning. So I only heard secondhand what happened. And obviously, you certainly did, as just been said, your best service.

It's really hard for these candidates to stay in line. As soon as one moves and shouts and so on, it's almost like permission to others. It's not a good thing for the voter. It's not a good thing for politics. It's not a good thing for democracy. But it very often happens that way. And maybe you're right as well, that other than Chow's lead, there's nothing clear about

about what is happening already in the race. And so that's why they're desperately out there trying to say, it's me, Lord, it's me. Karen? Yeah, well, I can certainly tell you this morning when I was, you know, walking the dog, you know, because you know me, Libby, like my barometer is the dog park, and it's replaced the water cooler in my life in terms of the chatter of what's important. And the general consensus was that when people started yelling over each other, that the listener tuned out.

Yeah, I mean, it was really a lost opportunity. I started by giving them 20 seconds each and 20 seconds each and okay, now take, you know, about a minute. And what was really disappointing about that, there were some people who would let somebody say something and then try to get their point in.

But there were a couple of people who would start talking over people like the minute. It's like they didn't want to let them speak. And, you know, part of the reason I have to say, and I know I have callers here who were upset about that. We had a studio audience. We had a lot of people watching this. And I thought, you know what? You should stop.

see their demeanor.

Right? That's part of it. Because I'm thinking that if there's somebody who is going to talk over you, literally, as soon as you open your mouth, is that person going to listen to you if you vote for them? Not very mayoral, is it? Well, you know, I almost thought that what I was doing is a version of what the mayor has to do these days, which is kind of...

keep children in check.

Libby, it's Paula. Do you think that the candidates, well, it was a new configuration. There were some new people, and maybe the other ones are kind of... They were quite respectful, actually. But they're kind of getting... Maybe they're starting to get a little choppy and antsy as we get closer to June 27th, and maybe we're entering a new stage of this campaign, which is, I would say, just a much more negative stage of this campaign. Well, I think...

nothing has really worked so far, right? So I think we may be getting there. And I don't think that we necessarily got the answers that we needed. So I want to get to that. But first, you know, what did you make of the release on bail of the guy who threatened violence against the candidates, Karen?

Well, it's remarkable. And, you know, I had, I was watching snippets and I saw Pierre Pallieva, you know, moaning on about how the fact a small percentage of individuals are the ones that are charged with crimes. I don't bail doing this revolving door thing. And I thought, well, that's, if that's true, then that's really quite alarming. And in fact, it is true. And we see this in this case where this individual, you know, he's out on bail for a crime for sexual assault. And, you know,

He's threatening mayoral candidates, arrested, out on bail again, and he's confined to a surity because that worked so well the first time. And you think, good Lord, what does this individual have to do to actually prevent this cycle from occurring? Now, I understand it was a BB gun and not a real gun, and maybe that comes into play. But the message that it sends...

to the community is a terrible message that there's nothing that is being taken seriously about these charges. Well, exactly. You would think that something like that would solidify public safety, which is really under threat here as the main issue, but I'm not sure that it has, Paula. I can't even believe anybody asked for bail.

Just on that, I'm unaware of what the police asked for there and if they asked for no bail. But now he is out on bail and I would just say that I'm sure that he has to be very carefully monitored. And I would assume that police division, I have no idea where this fellow lives, would

be very high on their list. And they do check on people regularly, I know that, very regularly, to see that you're not breaching. He was breaching the last time. But now, believe me, high on the radar. And I think everybody who's on the

on those bail conditions that our good officers will be checking very carefully. But that was really a shocking situation to have to go through. But given everything in this new, I'm going to say post-COVID world, where things are very topsy-turvy and these violent incidents keep happening, it is dreadful, but it

is within the realm of what we've been seeing with people that are very, I'm going to say, unwell and doing things that no one has done before. David? And we've seen it over and over again during this campaign and before.

Yeah, I have no idea, A, what the police asked for. I don't know if the court simply granted the police request. I don't know that. And so before I take off on it, I would want to assure myself of what the facts of the case were. On the face of it, because it's already out on bail on a charge,

you would think that they would not grant it so easily. So if they did, I'd like to hear what those reasons are before I lead to conclusions, which I think people are already reaching. But having said that, we have to be far more careful about the public's beginning sense that violence is becoming more common, and therefore it points to a city...

in decline. I think both of those, by the way, I don't agree with those. But I think people are beginning to want to talk about it in that way, and that will correct become the self-fulfilling prophecy. Well, I agree with you. I was just going to say, whatever the facts are in that case, there is a perception that

Right. That it's not safe. And, you know, I'm talking been talking to people and some of them are politically progressive, would never vote for a conservative candidate. And they feel just as unsafe or threatened just going about daily activities in the street as as other people.

And I mean, I'm wondering if people just aren't talking about it in a political sense. But, you know, it kind of I'm surprised that this has not emerged between the random violence and the garbage in the streets and what's going on on the TTC. I mean, you know, what more do you need?

Well, there are instances here, and someone may look back and say, why now? These people that are pushing other people on the street, push down Michael Finley, and then he died later. Yes. The instances in the subway. To me, these are all, I don't want to say the effects of COVID, but there's something that the

The fabric broke down somewhere with a lot of people. And how do you get back to something that's more normal? What's the plan? And many of these folks are completely, they are mentally ill. They've had very, they're just not well. Well, okay, but still, we did not experience this.

But it's in a different way. There's this violent edge. Why would you push somebody down because you could? And one of my staff got pushed in the subway by somebody and other people I talked to. So for some reason, the subway during COVID just became a different place, and we've never brought it back to the subway that we know. I think...

Those are the, that's the job now in the city of everybody, not just the mayor, but all of the helping professionals, CAMH. We have to get a grip on this and figure out how to turn this down. It can't go on in this way. I agree with you. It can't go on. I want to turn to something I had many questions about yesterday and they were not answered because it seems to me that, well,

Money is allocated for things. Things are done and it just gets stuck in the bureaucracy and there's no accountability. And I want to highlight just one aspect. So,

During COVID, we were very successful at bringing resources from hospitals, paramedics, Ontario Health, and bringing some vaccination and other health resources.

measures to people, to seniors and seniors housing, instead of having them go to them. We know how to do this. We know it works. We know we can do it. We have done it. And it's not even, I don't know if there's any city budget in it, but it's other resources. So

That was part of the brief for the Ontario Senior Housing Corporation, which John Tory created a year ago with a $100,000

and $60,000 CEO, 300 employees. That's a huge amount of money. They've all been being paid in full for a year. A year later, he releases a statement saying, there's no strategy in place. They're listening. Who spends money like that without a deliverable for a year?

They're listening. This was, in my opinion, done because we've done little pilot projects. We know what to do. We know it works and we know how to do it.

So why aren't we doing it? Why are there no deliverables? I've heard from some of the candidates promises about mandate letters or or, you know, performance expectations. And why does that even have to be the mayor? I did not look up what the city managers make. It's a fortune. Like what?

Why do they not require anything like this that the rest of us do? Karen? Well, I think it's, you know, we talk about a city in decline. I think that's where it begins, right? Where nobody has a clear sense of what's expected of them, and so they don't deliver anything. And

You know, we've talked about it for a long time, even before the mayoral election, how there just seems to be an apathy that exists in the bureaucracy around delivering on the expectations. And I don't know if it's because the expectations aren't clear. I don't know whether it's pride of work. I don't know whether it's some other factor at play. But, you know, again, the whole idea that people don't want to come back to work, that they don't

But they say they're as productive as they were before, which I don't believe. But, you know, it's a symptom. And it's not just inflicting this one aspect of the bureaucracy. It's pervasive. And it's part of what is leading to this general sense that the city is not on its best path, but it's on a slow path to decline. I don't think it's slow. Paula, we were talking last week about the

the delays in CafeTO, the red tape for the small businesses who are failing. I mean, okay, so we hear about bike lanes being built where the CafeTO should go right now at the same time. I mean, I'm wondering, so the people who deal with the bike lanes probably don't

talk to or sit next to the people who are dealing with CafeTO. And I am doubting if either pre or even or post COVID, any of them actually go down to the site and maybe, you know, what they deal with, I think, is just a file to them. It's not a person. It's not a business. Right.

Yeah, I think the business model and last week I had to get out my big scissors and cut all that red tape and say this business model you're operating from is wrong because we're supporting businesses.

So the city staff that are really in tune with the businesses, they need to be leading this, not the licensing for patios, etc. So I think this will all be corrected. But just in time for the end of the summer?

Oh, no, no. It's all going in. They're not. What happened was they were getting approvals where they could put them and then they were having to apply and get a permit and pay. And out of last week, a lot of conversation, just put them in. And just like any business, now you have an invoice. Now you're going to pay that later. It was really ham-fisted. It was poorly done. It was not a

business model and i think that that's my take away from that and i've got a motion coming to the council next week to say get a proper business model for cafe deal and hopefully uh... people will be on the patio within the next week and all these business owners who were tearing up their hair can settle down because their paperwork can happen later

It is sometimes, you know, just too many cooks, too many cooks, Libby. David, is it just like one instance of that, or is this a pervasive problem? Well, maybe it's obviously a series of specifics. But on the other hand, it may well be, I don't know if pervasive is the right word, but I think that one of the things that has happened is that bureaucratically there's been both

at the same time a timidity because they don't want to attempt their political masters, while at the same time they're not being able to exercise their best creativity. One of the great lines years ago that people used to use about the city of Toronto, certainly even before my time, was that the city was always well-run, but oftentimes badly governed. So it was a testimony to the fact that the bureaucracy made it all work.

And in many, many ways, that's still the expectation. And so I think there are two things here that need to be done. And that is to restore the bureaucracy's sense of pride in its own work and what it does. And secondly, the executive of the council

has a job after the vote is taken and the policies are now to be in place, their job is to ride herd on that bureaucracy. So there are two folks that need to be, or two entities, pride to bureaucracy and a sense of mission on the part of the executive of the council to ride herd on it. Which means like deliverables, like in writing, right? For sure.

Sorry, David. I'm sorry. Don't speak over you. Don't speak over him. I'm not. Sorry. Go ahead, Paula. No, I just think that when we get into some of these things, you know, the role of the mayor's office has always been to untangle some of these messes. And without a mayor, I think that we've been suffering from that, starting a new term, decreasing

just getting started. Oops, mayor's gone, going into this interminable election campaign, and then somebody starting off new in the summer. So I think 2023 is not going to be the best year the city's ever had. I mean, are they emboldened? They don't have to listen to Jennifer McKelvey? I think she seems to be, I don't know, she looks like she's doing the job pretty well.

Yes, I think she stepped in and she's doing a great job. I would agree with that. It requires more thorough, ongoing, continuous hurting of it all by the mayor's office and the executive committee. That's how it's done. She's done a great job in the pinch that she was asked to do so.

Yes, but not as the mayor. It's just a different type of authority. In fact, she's still called the deputy mayor. So that strong figure that plays an important role in untangling and breaking down the barriers, that just has been missing since, I think, February the 10th.

Okay, I mean, you'd think that people in very senior positions making lots of dough, you know, would have something in them to do their job without being, you know, herd ridden on.

I agree. That's what I wonder about. But Libby, I mean, the reality is John Tory was never a decisive figure. No, indecisive. Now the consequences of that deliberation, listening to her, whatever it was, like it's just it's being felt in the organization that he led for over eight years.

And so this general malaise is because it's been allowed to persist because there hasn't been anybody standing up defending the city. And, you know, as a resident who's – I've been here my entire life and, you know, you do your part, right? Like, you know, you pay your taxes, you contribute, you volunteer, you know, you do what you think you're supposed to do. And in return, I sort of feel like I'm being taken for granted. Right.

And that I'll just put up with all of the construction and congestion and, you know, the things that don't make sense and the parks that are being overrun. In fact, you can't get simple things fixed. And, you know, it's just that sense of we're not in it together at all. And, you know, this whole notion that, you know, we do our part in an exchange, the city does its part. And it hasn't felt like the city has been doing its part.

I would have to agree with you. So let's get back to the original question. That election is looming. Is there going to be a ballot question and is it going to be this malaise? Silence. Silence.

I think there's a ballot question. I think change is the ballot question. After quite a few years of doing things the same way, after the Rob Ford government, I don't know how structurally things were just carried on in the same way by John Tory. And I think it's also a trust election, because it's very unsettling to come out of Congress

COVID and then go into an election. And then shortly thereafter, your mayor who is running for a third term is gone. And people are, I can understand just emotionally and thoughtfully what's really going on here. So they're looking for that person that they believe in, that they can trust. David? That's right. That is right. It's leadership that can be trusted is the ballot question.

And is anybody displaying that? Well, I think people have got their choices. I think there's three or four, maybe five candidates are doing that or could do that. Yes, they do. By the way, I think the experience in the city has also shown that people grow or don't grow in the job. So sometimes you have to make a judgment. You're not sure because the fact is once you're in the chair, it

It's a different world. And so, therefore, it's not easy to predict who might do really well. You take a chance on it, but you have to look and see where they've been before. How are they bringing people together? All of those things. And that's what people, I think, will add it all up and say, we're going, the city's moving forward. We need leadership that we can trust. Karen? Well, I actually think it's a bit more tactical in this case. It's, you know, who's going to beat Olivia Chow?

Or if you want Olivia Chow to be mayor, then how do you elect Olivia Chow or how do you defeat Olivia Chow? Because in the conversations I'm having, it's who do I vote for to make sure that we don't get Olivia? Because there's a sense that Olivia will bring tax increases that we can't predict, that there's this general sense of what the left means and how Olivia works.

It embodies that. And so if you don't, if you're not necessarily left, if you're middle or right or, you know, just not left, then it's the question of, okay, who do I vote for to defeat Olivia? Okay. And well, the left seems to have coalesced around Olivia. Yeah. While the right has not coalesced around everyone. And we have someone like an Anthony Fury, like really making quite a run.

which will probably end up being good on his resume, but not amount to anything this time except stopping that part of the spectrum, I would think. And unfortunately, nobody's got the momentum. I think if someone were to show momentum in the next six or seven days, then we would see a rapid shift of support towards that individual. Okay.

Okay, I'm going to go around, give everyone 20 seconds. Paula? I'd just say that, Karen, so far, it's Olivia that's showing the momentum. And I do believe that the trust factor, people do know who she is. They trust her. They know her work. There are others. The latest poll shows Olivia in first and Anna in second. So my dream of having a woman mayor may just come true, Libby. Okay. David?

Well, it seems to me that I think that's probably right what Paul just said. You cannot take away from the fact that she's now so far ahead of the others just because they know her name. I think there's probably some thinking. So I think she's already in good order in terms of being able to do it. I don't see anyone so far that Karen may be right. There may be movement.

But I'm not sure I see it. So my guess is it's going to end up where it is right now. There may be a change, but I have my doubts, as they used to say. Okay, Karen.

Well, I'll tell you, the one person who people are talking about is this Gong fellow. Oh, yeah. With all his signs everywhere and his literature appearing in mailboxes. Who is this guy? And he had the good sense out of, you know, 102 people on the ballot. He said, vote number 44. Oh, I do that every year, Libby. Oh, good for you. Yeah.

Whether he gets a vote or not, I have no idea, but people are talking about him. Oh, yeah. We were saying that if for some reason Brad couldn't have made it to the debate because of the new arrival, that we should get Gong, perhaps on another occasion. We should talk to that guy at least.

He's the only one that's made a contribution to the new generation so far. Okay. All right. We've got to wrap things up. And I'm so glad that all three of you are going to join us for our special programming on election night, which should also be fun. We're going to, you know, have a little bit of a party here. Like we used to. And we will be talking before then. So thank you so much, David Crombie, Karen Stinson, Paula Fletcher.

Thanks, Libby. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye.

Don't like to hear that. We're taking a break. And when we come back, we're going to talk. Boy, you know, these fires should be a wake up call, not just for your health, especially for your health, but also for your property. We're going to talk about that when we come back. You're listening to an exclusive podcast of Fight Back on Zuma Radio. Heard weekdays from noon to one.

Fight back with Libby Snymer on Zuma Radio. Welcome back. Today we are suffering from the fallout of the fires in northeastern Ontario and Quebec, and the Maritimes have been hit hard. Of course, our health is most important.

But it should be a wake-up call about protecting our property as well. And in addition to massive climate events, stuff happens. I can attest to that. Last week, I got a frantic phone call about a neighboring tree falling on our home. Luckily, we have proper coverage.

I want to bring in our very fondly missed freelance newscaster, Steve Key, who moved to New Brunswick. He's had several careers, including with the insurance industry, and he has some great advice. Hey, Steve.

Hi, how are you? Fine. How are you? Well, you know, it's funny. I know that I've been watching the news from Toronto and seeing the air quality problems. I'm looking out my window today and I can see Prince Edward Island. I can even see the Confederation Bridge. So where we're located in southeast New Brunswick, it seems the winds go either way, not through here.

Well, you're lucky, but there are big problems in Nova Scotia. Absolutely. I just checked in with the people down in Nova Scotia. They say the area is being held. That doesn't mean that it's under control, but that the area is being held. We've had a lot of rain over the last couple of days. That has helped, but there's still 235 people.

square kilometer range of fires in that area. And it's tragic because a lot of people have lost their homes and have had to relocate. And it's definitely a very difficult time for people. Well, and we've seen this, right? We've seen those of us who are following on news. It's terrible. And a lot of these people are older people, are Zoomers, and they've lost...

Everything. And I, you know, I think all of this happening all around us, it might not be the thing that's top of mind, because which should be your health. But so tell us what people need to make sure that they are covered for. So if something bad happens to you, at least, you know,

you'll be able to be, I don't even know if you make yourself whole or you'll be able to manage. Well, think of it this way. Our generation are in the later stages where we have probably either paid off our homes or have very little mortgage. So there's huge value in that property. And unlike an auto insurance policy where you have your car and it depreciates in value, your home appreciates.

in value. So you want to make sure that your insurance is appropriate for what you do. One of the problems I always faced when I was working for the insurance industry is that people didn't take the time to understand what was in their policy. Of course, their home value keeps going up. You accumulate stuff, you have more. Is the value on your policy reflected in that? For the most part, in a fire situation, you're going to be covered.

but you're going to be covered to replace some of the value of what you have, have your home rebuilt, get some things in there. But again, if your roof is 30 years old, you're going to get value based on that, not based on a new roof necessarily. So the money you get back may not be what

you think it's going to be. I always told people to make sure on a yearly basis you review that policy, number one, and number two, do a detailed inventory of what you have. Also, if you've made major revisions, make sure the insurance company knows that so that when you're having this frank discussion,

you're not surprised. And that's what people do. They tend to just say, okay, well, my rate didn't go up year over year. Well, maybe your coverage isn't going up either. Well, I mean, exactly. I mean, people don't often want to do that because it results in a bigger insurance bill. And until you make a claim, it feels like the money is somehow being wasted.

Well, it's being wasted until you need it. And, you know, insurance is supposed to be there when people need it most. And I know that I was very actively involved in the Fort McMurray wildfires in 2016. And there were so many people, because of economic conditions and the oil catch, they had paid off their homes before.

but removed their home insurance. And then they were completely out of luck. And that was a tragic situation. So you're looking for some government funding, some funding from the Red Cross, but you would never get back to the way you were. Now, I'm hopeful that the people here in Nova Scotia and northern Quebec, people who have been moved out of their homes or lost their property, had the proper insurance. But I'm

I'm not on the ground at this particular moment, so I don't know what that ratio is, but I would hope it's fairly high because they've seen what's happened over the last few years, especially after Fort McMurray. I'm going to give the numbers out again, people. If you have a question for Steve, he's the right guy to ask. He's retired in New Brunswick, so he doesn't really, he's not representing anybody. He doesn't have an axe to grind. 416-360-0740.

Toll free 1-866-744-740. If you have a question or if you have a comment and yeah, it can be hard to pay for that. Now, what about people who rent? I think people who rent don't necessarily understand that.

What they need in terms of insurance as well. And perhaps don't understand that if you've got renter's insurance and for some reason you have to move out of your place, that's going to be deducted from what you get replaced, right? Right.

Well, a renter insurance policy will cover you off in a couple of things. One, liability. Liability is always important, even on a home policy. If something happens or you do something negligent or accidental that causes a problem within that unit, that's going to be covered. Also, your content. Now, it's not certainly probably to the extent of content that you would have in a home that you've grown up and lived in for many, many years. But you

But you need that as well as if there's a fire within your unit and there's alternative expenses that go to living so that if your property is damaged and you can't live there and you're forced out, that there's going to be payment for hotel and some of that help and support if you can't stay with friends or family. And how do you figure that out? Well,

Well, that is also based on the amount of coverage you would get with that would be based on what you're paying and how much you're covered for. Certainly someone in an apartment, uh,

would not have the same level of support than someone living in, say, a million-dollar home in the Toronto area, that you would get more of that. And also, you know, you would have to talk to your insurance company about the state of repairs and whether you can live in your place or you can't live in your place if you're forced out of your place while these renovations are taking place. Anything else you'd like to leave us with, Steve?

Insurance is complicated because there are various levels of things that you buy. People often buy on price. They don't buy on product. They don't understand that if you have

say really expensive jewelry, you probably need to have a rider on that to cover it. You just want to be in a position that you're not shocked. So better to pay a little bit more. And it's not a huge amount. It's better to pay a bit more and have that peace of mind. That's what insurance is for, peace of mind. Okay. Steve Key, thanks so much. Well, thank you, Libby. Good to talk to you. Good to talk to you. Bye-bye.

Okay, we are going to take a break. And when we come back, we're going to talk about the other piece of this, which, of course, is health and air quality and what we can expect going forward. And again, I want to hear from you. Are you being affected by this poor air quality, which apparently is getting worse today? Today will be the worst of it.

And it will get worse before it gets better. So before we go, the number is 416-360-0740. Toll free 1-866-744-740. And we'll be back with David Phillips. You're listening to an exclusive podcast of Fight Back on Zuma Radio. Heard weekdays from noon to one. ♪

Fight back with Libby's Nimer on Zuma Radio. Welcome back for the third day in a row. Toronto is under a special weather statement for poor air quality and today is predicted to bring the worst of it.

Environment Canada predicts we will reach an 8 out of 10 point air quality health index scale. And the index measures air quality based on how it will impact health. That's a very high end. That number signals a high risk, especially during the day. It's especially true for people who are high risk, of course, older people, older

pregnant women, children, those with lung disease, heart disease, and people who are otherwise immunocompromised, and also those who work outside. So how are you being affected? The numbers to call, I'd like to hear.

If you're feeling, you know, a little scratchy or a touch out of breath, 416-360-0740, toll free 1-866-740-4740. And now I'm joined by David Phillips, Senior Climatologist for Environment Canada. Hi, David. Hey, good afternoon, Libby. Nice to be with you. Well, thank you. So,

I've been reading today Toronto has the worst or the second worst air quality in the world. So where are we at? Yeah, Libby, I certainly think yesterday was that we thought today was going to be worse and it could still be that way. I think what has prevented it from being just almost a fumigating kind of environment is the fact that we've had a lot of cloud cover.

And, you know, you look up there and you see the smoke. You see that kind of... I didn't see the sunrise this morning at all. There was just too much of that smoke at the upper levels blocking the sun. And, of course, so up there would be really... It would be like New York if you were flying an aircraft at that level. But what...

The cloud that we had prevented the mixing from the ground. It prevented the sun from coming in and warming the ground, and then it was air currents going up and coupling with the smoke at the top, which would bring it to the ground. And so I think because the cloud cover has been so thick that we've been prevented from having some of that smoke come down. Now, we can certainly see it.

But you can't necessarily, I can't, smell it or feel it or taste it. Some people might. I mean, it depends on the neighborhood, depends on the hour. But generally speaking, I think the situation is not quite as bad. I think our air quality health index will not get up to 10. It may be 7. But certainly...

And earlier today, it was more like two or three. So I think the situation is not as bad. We could get some rain this afternoon, very low chance of some precipitation, which could wash it out. But Libby, I think the savior storm is coming Sunday, Monday, when we see a weather system coming from the United States from over the Great Lakes area that's going to change the wind direction. It's going to bring a more widespread kind of rain, and we need that. My gosh, Libby, in the GTA, we've had in more than two weeks...

We've had less than a thimble full of rain. So we need the rain for other purposes, but certainly to clean the scrub, the air would be a nice thing. But it's that wind direction which will like just push that smoke elsewhere and take it away from Toronto. Okay. You know, it's good to hear a little bit of good news. Let's hear from Bill in Uxbridge. Hi, Bill.

Hi, Bill. Libby? Yep, go ahead. Okay, yeah, I was just about to nail down a beach rental on one of the lake-hearing beaches, you know, with rates as sky-high as they are, but now I'm backing off. I'm not going to go and sit on a smoky, campfire-smelling beach and maybe see the sunset, maybe not. No.

So this has got to affect our whole southern Ontario tourist industry, who wants to pay big bucks to sit inside a cottage. Well, Bill, I think you're right. Why go to Algonquin Park when you can smell like a campfire in your own hometown? Oh, dear. Well, I'm glad you're laughing, Bill. You know, there may be some tour people who are in the tourism industry who are not finding it quite that funny.

Well, that's what I'm saying. It isn't funny. This, guys, is exceptional. I mean, this isn't often, you know, Americans are paying Canadians to send some of that fresh, clean Canadian air their way. Instead, what they're getting is the reverse. And here we're going to end this with some American air. How ironic would that be? Thanks, Bill, for your call.

I've already heard that. I mean, it is unusual to see American headlines, you know, saying all this bad air coming from Canada. No, you know, Libby, we have some of the cleanest, freshest air.

uh... air in the world i mean we will rank up there with anybody and to think that now we this what we're sending out coming this is did not retreating what they think i mean we can't stop this at the border either and a book boy it is following uh... times square and

and New England and other parts right down to Tennessee. And my gosh, Libby, all they'll remember is this is Canadian air. Well, the next time they're in a heat wave with hot, hazy, humid air from Bermuda Highs and from Florida air, and then they'll say, could you send us some of that fresh...

blue sky Canadian air to, to, uh, so we can turn our air conditioning off. So my sense, we'll come back to being what we were, but right now this boat is, is not very, it's un-Canadian. Well, yeah. And it was really unusual to see us mentioned, uh,

In the same breath as Lahore, Pakistan, and New Delhi. I know. I've been to those places. The air is bad. It is. And, you know, I think you're right. It's not to make light of it. I mean, there's certainly, as you pointed out so well at the beginning, the people who are vulnerable, and they know they're vulnerable. I mean, and even fit and athletic people.

people. This is the thing. These low concentration doses of air pollution is good for nobody. Because the problem, Libby, those little tiny particles you can't see, they're about the size of, say, one twentieth of the diameter of a human hair. And it's so tiny, they get into the lungs, into the bloodstream, into other body tissue. And we don't know what the long-term effects are. So fortunately, we don't live in polluted areas or else, hey, I mean, our life span

existence would be much less than it is. So we're fortunate we have clean air generally, and it's just this is kind of an anomalous kind of situation, and I think we'll go back to something that's more Canadian and we'll be able to breathe easier and live better.

You know, how does this fit? Every now and again, we do see studies here, and they're kind of population big studies, and they say X number of people are killed by bad environmental things, including bad air, and that includes here in Canada. So where does this fit in to those? Well, it's a good point. Libby, you know...

I studied reports of wildfires 100 years ago, 150 years ago. It killed a lot of people in Canada. It was fires that burnt people and destroyed their homes. They couldn't flee. There was no way to get away. And so we would see deaths of 500 to 1,000 people would die. Nobody has died from these wildfires, the worst in Canadian history so far.

And I think we know how to deal with them. People are conscious of what they should do to get away from them. But the problem is that many of these fires, vast majority of these fires, Libby, have been started by people. It wasn't lightning that started them. Now, nature can put them out, and we've seen some of the... Really? I thought it was lightning. Well, it does. Now, lightning does. I would say it's more like 60% people, 40% lightning. But the lightning...

comes later. It's usually July and August, not this early in the season. Now, these are people who are visiting the forest area, starting campfires and not dousing them, all-terrain vehicles, dirt bikes that are a spark away from making that tinderbox erupt into flames. And so we have to be more conscious of...

what we're doing and and even visiting the forest i mean we we love to go and open the cottage of the cabin and and uh... but boy i think we sometimes take our suburban and urban practices and bring them into the uh... into the woodlots and uh... and and we see that this is uh... these are fuel ready to to a rock so i think it's a different situation we need more education training and we need some

some real heavy fines on anybody that starts a campfire and doesn't put it out. Come on. That is just being wrong. And I think that so many of these are caused by careless human beings, and I think we need to come down hard on those people. What about government? Like, we've seen a place like Brampton has banned fires, but the provincial government isn't going to move.

They've curtailed some things. I mean, do we need more stricter regulations and a ban? Well, I think we do. I think we need to train people to... And not putting up barriers, but, you know, we need to look and say, well, who was the problem there? And then to make people accountable for their actions. I mean, they are...

not only are they making it difficult for everybody, they don't have to live in a forest to feel the effects of that smoke and that, but they're spoiling it for other people who want to go up there and have a campfire and follow the practices, teach their children what to do and to put dirt and sand, make sure it's out and water it, I mean, and then depart. And so my sense is that we need...

more, you know, fines for people who break the law. I mean, we want them to visit that forest area, get away from the cities and go out into the wilderness and have that wilderness experience. But it's a cost. And I think that what we need to do is to make sure people are more responsive to their environment and not spoil it for others. Let's take a quick call from

Annabelle in Hamilton. Hi, Annabelle. Hi, how are you? Fine, go ahead. I just want to let you know I agree with your guest there. My husband and I were up north in one of our favorite parks, Provincial Park, and

We're walking around. There's no campfire signs all over the place. Well, their family had to have a campfire. They'd never saw one before. Well, they're going to see it again. So my husband got a bucket of water and went through the water on the campfire. Wow. Wow. Did he get into trouble with these people? Oh, they were mad. But what happens, everything is computerized now. If they wanted to go to a different park, they were not allowed to go in. They were banned from the provincial parks for a while.

Which I think is a great idea. If you want to be stupid about it, I go up to look at the, like I love the North. It's a beautiful place, but I want it there for as long as I live. I don't want it to be burnt down. And it just takes one stupid person to do it. Okay. I think that sums it up, Annabelle. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

Okay, David, what would you like to leave us with? Well, I mean, I think, you know, I think Libby, this is not, this is a dress rehearsal. It's going to be a warmer and drier than normal summer, we think. Doesn't necessarily mean we're going to have more forest fires, but hey, be kind to everybody by doing the right thing when you visit the forest. Enjoy it, but hey, leave it.

the way you got it. And so it doesn't spoil people to have an enjoyable time in the woods. Okay. David Phillips, Senior Climatologist at Environment Canada. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you, Libby. Bye-bye now. Bye-bye.

Alrighty, that is all the time we have for today. I'm going to be off for a few days. Jane Brown is going to be here and I will talk to you all next Wednesday. In the meantime, everybody have a good, safe weekend. And let's hope that this air quality problem passes and we get back to some nice summer weather soon.

That's all the time we have for today. You're listening to an exclusive podcast of Fight Back on Zoomer Radio. Heard weekdays from noon to one. This podcast is proudly produced and presented by the Zoomer Podcast Network, home of great podcasts like Marilyn Lightstone Reads, Idea City on the Air, and The Garden Show.