Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
First Person is produced in cooperation with the Far East Broadcasting Company, who rejoice in the stories of changed lives through the power of Jesus Christ. Learn more at febc.org. Affliction is what shoves us out into the depths of God, and I'm still learning, even after all these years of quadriplegia, so many precious insights about our Savior and a bit of sweet communion with Him. ♪
She is loved the world over. Johnny Erickson Tata is our guest now on First Person. Welcome, I'm Wayne Shepherd, and Happy New Year to all of our listeners. Just before we begin my conversation with Johnny, I invite you to visit FirstPersonInterview.com, where you'll not only find today's program, but a list of past programs you can listen to at any time. These interviews reveal God at work in the lives of all kinds of people who placed their lives into His hands. So check out the list of people we've talked with through the years at FirstPersonInterview.com. All
Also look for us at facebook.com slash firstpersoninterview. Following her diving accident as a teenager which left her paralyzed, Johnny Tata is not only a devout Christian, but also a celebrated speaker, author, and artist. She is an inspiration to millions around the world and the founder and CEO of Johnny and Friends.
The author of some 50 books, her latest is titled The Practice of the Presence of Jesus. And this book brings us together for this conversation on First Person, our first of 2024. So, Johnny, Happy New Year. Oh, Happy New Year as well. What a great year. Looking forward to what God's going to do in our lives this year, huh, Wayne? Yeah, me too, me too. Well, it's been about four years since you were on First Person, and I got to tell you, Johnny,
I don't think there's been a more popular guest in terms of downloads than what you were four years ago. So I'm really looking forward to our conversation. Me as well. It's anytime I can sit down at the microphone with you, Wayne, it's always a joy. It's not been an easy year for you, has it? No, it hasn't. 56 years in this wheelchair. And in 2023, I suffered two big long bouts with double pneumonia.
And it's been a long recovery, a slow recovery. In fact, probably our listeners can hear the weakness in my voice and a little bit of a struggle to still get breath. My lungs are diminished from the pneumonia. So if our friends listening will just be patient, I can't put five words together in a sentence still. And I think that's good.
Well, thank you for making yourself available for this conversation, John. It's always a pleasure and a real joy. How do you find the time and the strength? I know the Lord is your strength, but how do you find the time and the strength to do everything you do? Well, I've got a lot of friends. In fact, you know our ministry is called Johnny and Friends. And, oh, Wayne, we could sit here for the rest of our time together, and I could
go on and on talking about the extraordinary outreach to the world's disabled, the new children's wheelchairs that we have developed that are state-of-the-art for rough terrain, durable and developing nations, the thousands of disabled people who've come to Christ and
We're now establishing Johnny's Houses in developing nations, Nepal, Brazil, Thailand, and other places, other countries where we provide Bible study, Bible delivery, wheelchair repair, scholarshiping surgeries, just food, medical supplies. I could go on and on and talk about that, but for me personally,
You know as well as I do. I love to communicate. I'm an artist. I love to speak, write. And so that's what I do. I spend a lot of time not only on the radio, but just journaling the things I'm learning. And those journals end up becoming books such as the one you're holding in your hand. It's called The Practice of the Presence of Jesus. That has a familiar ring to it.
It sounds like Brother Lawrence to me. It does, and it should. When I was in high school, I read Brother Lawrence's The Practice of the Presence of God. Our listeners might remember that he was the Carmelite monk who lived in the 1600s, raised in a poor family in France, stumbled his way onto a monastery, came to Christ,
And they assigned him duties of scrubbing kitchen pots and pans and floors and latrines. But he never found those menial tasks distasteful. They were his way of inviting God into those ordinary routines and experiencing God's presence. Well, that book that I read in high school went on my bookshelf, and I forgot about it until COVID happened.
And when we were all sequestered away, we were rereading everything on our bookshelves, right? And I happened to pull down that tattered copy, and I looked at it, and I thought to myself, oh, my goodness, this is what I'm doing. This book meant a lot to me when I was 17 years old, but now I'm living it, you know, daily practicing the presence of Jesus Christ.
So I decided to take that journal that I've been accruing with some of the reflections and insights that I've learned over the decades, and I decided to put a lot of those reflections in this new book, The Practice of the Presence of Jesus, because he is the sweetest. Wayne, he is the sweetest one in my life. He really is after so many years. Well, he is the one who said, I will never leave you or forsake you.
So he is the one that you want to bring the glory for. Johnny, you say in the introduction to your book that suffering has a way of heaving you beyond the shallows of life where your faith feels ankle deep. It casts you out into the fathomless depths of God. That is so true, Wayne. Because all of us, we're all, if we would admit it, comfortable in the shallows of faith.
We are settled with a little bit of theology, a little bit of worship, a little bit of prayer, a little bit of Bible study, but none of us want to go that extra mile, that extra step.
where we get to understand and appreciate the depths of God. We don't want to go there. It's going to cost us too much to travel down that hard road to Calvary where we die to self daily and live to Jesus. So rather than have us stay in the shallows, what does God do? He gives us help. He helps us normally by picking us up,
With a heave of suffering and throwing us way out into the depths where we don't understand what he's doing. We can't touch bottom. And Jesus is the only one who can, and so we cling to him for dear life. Affliction is what shoves us out into the depths of God. So well said. I'm still learning, even after all these years of quadriplegia, so many things.
so many precious insights about our Savior, and I wouldn't trade this life of affliction for any amount of walking. It's been a sweet communion with Him. That is such a powerful statement, given the circumstances of your life, Johnny. You have such a grateful heart. You've endured so much, and yet you have such a grateful heart. Talk more about this, and this practice of the presence of Jesus that
Okay, well, I said at the top of our time together that I struggled through a couple of long bouts with double pneumonia, about 45 days of hospitalization altogether. And some might look at a hospitalization as a rude interruption into what is their ordinary routine.
normal life and you know we'll get that out of the way and then we'll get back to doing things as we like them right but but that's not the way god looks at it god thinks that when i'm in a hospital that's the main highway that that's there's that's no detour and so how do i practice of the presence practice the presence of my savior here in this hospital well
There are people walking in and out of that hospital bedroom constantly, doctors, nurses, nurses' aides, janitors, cafeteria ladies holding trays. There was this one woman at 4 a.m. drawing blood, you know, the kind that come in and put on the lights and you have to wake up suddenly. And as she's drawing my blood, I'm thinking, okay, here's another opportunity. How do I practice your presence, Jesus?
So I'm half awake and I look at her and say, you know, you remind me an awful lot of something said in the Bible. Proverbs 14, 31 says, whoever's kind to the needy honors God.
Oh, you are so honoring God right now because you're being so kind to me. I am very needy, and thank you for being kind. You are honoring God. And she looks at me askew, and, well, thank you, she says. And then other people coming in or out.
A night nurse, it was a male nurse, his name was James. And I said, you remind me of Jesus. Jesus said he came not to be served, but to serve. And just look at you, you're acting just like Jesus serving me here. Ways to just make Christ real to the people around you, to invite him into the moment.
and to have people experience him along with you. It's just like shaking little gospel seeds, you know, to make people hungry and thirsty for him. That's just one way to practice his presence. Well, it's such a simple thing to do, and yet it never occurs to us to do it that way and to think of those connections that will really unlock a person's heart to us, won't it? And didn't you find that to be true? Absolutely. But, Wayne, I think part of it is that
We need to remember that the person we're looking at, the nurse, the nurse's aide, the janitor, the cafeteria worker, the lady who draws blood, they have souls. And that soul that we're looking at, looking into those eyes, there's a soul behind those eyes. And that soul is either going to
Live with Christ for all of eternity or be destined to hell, a hellish existence of I just can't live with myself when I'm with someone and all of a sudden God makes me aware of that.
And then I think right there, as soon as I'm made aware that this person is a person who has an immortal soul, where's that soul going to spend eternity? You just have to say something, even if it's in an elevator and you hum amazing grace. It is something, it is anything. It's pea shooter evangelism, but it's just a gesture, if that's all you can do in an elevator to alert people that there's more to this life than what they know.
And I think the reason we don't engage people more frequently with even hints and whispers of the gospel is that we forget.
We forget that there's an eternity coming for us all. And this life, the parade of life that we now know it is going to end. Sooner or later, it'll be over and we'll be on to a different life. I know you agree with that, Wayne. I would never disagree with you, Johnny. We'll have more of our conversation coming up on this edition of First Person.
Hi, I'm Ed Cannon. And as you know, situations around the world are changing quickly. Stay current with FEBC's ministry and get a deeper understanding of people who need to find hope. Hear how you can feel the pulse of God's Spirit moving through the hearts of believers dedicated to reaching the lost. Be sure you join me for the podcast until all have heard. Discover how the gospel is making a difference around the world.
Search for Until All Have Heard on your favorite podcast platform or hear it online at febc.org.
My guest is Johnny Erickson Tata. Her new book is The Practice of the Presence of Jesus. And here we are at the start of a brand new year, and I thought this would be the ideal time to talk with you about this, Johnny, because so many are thinking about, you know, resolutions. I don't know where you stand on that, you know, and those resolutions that come so easily and die so quickly. But what a resolution to live the way you were describing a few moments ago, you know, just seizing every opportunity to live the way you were describing a few moments ago.
to engage a soul that has an eternal destiny and engage them for Christ. That's the best resolution probably, huh? Absolutely. I'm thinking of that verse in Ephesians. Sorry, I don't know where exactly it is, but Ephesians chapter 1. I pray that you might have the spirit of wisdom and revelation so that you may know him better. Isn't that wonderful? So that we might know him better in 2024.
Yeah, wonderful. Now, you've written this book as a devotional, haven't you? Yeah, I want... It's short. These are short passages, but they are pithy. They are deep. I wanted to...
optimize my words. I just didn't want to fill up a page with escape the surface insights. I wanted to go as deep as I could on a single page to get people really thinking about practicing Christ's presence. I mean, I want people to enter eternity where they know they have lived well,
I mean, like me, I know you and I are at the age where we're thinking about, we don't have a lot of time left. No, yeah, the clock is ticking, isn't it? The clock is ticking, we want to finish well. Wayne, I want to burst through the pearly gates, I want to break the tape, I want to run through the tape, I want to race into heaven and then collapse, heaving on the celestial shore, the sand crumbles.
on my hands and knees gasping I made it I made it and then I want to roll over on my back with my eyes closed and I want to feel a shadow come over my face and I open my eyes and there he is there's Jesus standing above me and he's going to say oh sweetheart welcome home you made it you're safe it was hard back there wasn't it but you're okay you're home now I'm here oh such words
I can't wait for that day. So let's not waste our sufferings. Let's not squander our hardships. Let's optimize them. Let's invest them in heavenly glories, right? Yeah. You talk about the battle that life is, a cosmic battle between good and evil, between our good God and Satan. And you talk about keeping alert to the commands of God. What do you mean by that when you write about that, Johnny? Yeah.
Well, each of us, no matter how insignificant we think we are, every morning when we wake up, we enter a battlefield where the mightiest forces of the universe converge on warfare. I mean, the devil is after our souls, but we will not let him have an inch. And so we fight to stay happy in God, happy in Jesus, satisfied in him.
And the best way we can do that is to obey Him, trust and obey. There is really no other way to be happy in Him. I want to be happy in Jesus. I don't want to have just a little bit of theology, a little bit of Bible reading, a little bit of worship and fellowship and think that that's my normal Christian life. No, I want to go deep with God. Who doesn't want to go deep with God? And so, obedience is the best path to that.
And if Christ learned obedience to the things that he suffered, then we can learn obedience to the things that we suffer. Good place to begin is Philippians 2, verse 14. Do everything without complaining. The Bible actually thinks we can do that. It's amazing. Do everything without complaint. We can do it. You know, you always seem to have a hymn on your lips, and you just did Trust and Obey a moment ago. And I was talking with our mutual friend Keith Getty not too long ago, and
And it just occurred to me, I'm surprised that you haven't written any hymns like Keith has written, you know, modern day hymns with the depth of understanding that you have and your love of these hymns from the past. You haven't done that, have you? Oh, no, I've never done it. But I tell you, with people like Stuart Townend and Keith Getty, I mean, these men and women are spirit blessed. They are the recipients of some blessing.
extraordinary insight from the Holy Spirit
to grace us with the modern hymns that we enjoy nowadays. I mean, some of the things that Stuart Townend and the Gettys are writing nowadays is just phenomenal. And I'm so grateful that they are keeping fresh, keeping alive people's love for hymns. And what rich, good doctrine. I mean, there are many times in the middle of the night when I can't sleep because I have so much neuropathic pain.
But I love that I can pray, rock of ages cleft for me, let me hide myself in thee. Let the water and the blood from thy wounded side which flows be for me a double cure, safe from wrath and make me pure. You know, I could go on and on just rewriting various stanzas of hymns that...
Or like a prayer book. Our hymn book is really a prayer book. Yeah, I was thinking that too. It's a devotional exercise just to read the lyrics to these hymns, isn't it? It is. It's a doctrinal exercise as well. Yes, yeah, yeah. And we were just talking about being on the thin side of life now as we get older. And I love the last verse to Rock of Ages. Yeah.
When I draw this fleeting breath and my eyelids close in depth, when I soar, I love this part, when I soar to worlds unknown, see thee on thy judgment throne, O rock of ages, cleft for me, let me hide myself in thee. I just love that imagery. I just love it. Well, it's special to hear you quote that hymn too, Johnny. It really is. Let's talk about Psalm 23. Okay.
I know this is very special to you as well. It is. I love that sixth verse. Goodness and mercy shall pursue me all the days of my life. Isn't that a wonderful thought, Wayne? That right now there is this massive reservoir of love and grace and God has...
thrown open wide the floodgates and outcomes pouring, cascading, rushing toward us. God's love is mercy, his help, his enablement. And all we need to do is open our arms and our hearts wide and welcome his love. He's pursuing us. He has left the 99 in the field. He is off looking for us if we're wandering away, the lost sheep. He is pursuing us actively, giving
And with more love and excitement than we could possibly imagine. And I love to think of God that way, that when I feel guilty, when I feel oppressed, he is right there next to me.
kneeling by me, ready to empower me to rise up out of that sinful state. He doesn't scold me or chastise me or stand at a distance, tap his foot, look at his watch and say, get your act together, girl, before you come my way again. No, he is right there with us, enabling us to repent from our sin and move forward up and out of it. That's a good God pursuing us, actively running after us. Yeah.
Well, here we are in a new year, and we've got a couple minutes left, Johnny. And I just want to encourage our listeners to practice the presence of Jesus. What would you say to us here at the threshold of a new opportunity, a whole year stretched out before us, should the Lord tarry and even so come Lord Jesus? But what's your call to us? Well, the Bible does talk about one resolution.
uh the new testament writers talk about i resolve to know christ it's we should be resolved to know him better uh such as that verse that i mentioned from ephesians chapter one give me the spirit of wisdom and revelation that i might know you better and one good way to know him better the new year is to learn bible promises i mean just memorize one bible promise a week the fact that um
Oh, that he is your ever-present help in trouble. It's so short. It's a promise. Memorize it. And then when you wake up every morning during that week, resolve to remember he is your ever-present help in whatever trouble you might face this day. And then perhaps the next week, memorize another Bible promise that God will never leave you or forsake you.
And then another Bible promise, though you are hard-pressed on all sides, you will not be crushed. There are countless Bible promises, and I think we would do ourselves well, do our souls well, enrich our souls if we would just take this year and memorize Bible promises one a week and journal it, and oh my goodness, by the end of 2024,
you will have a rich treasure trove of sure guarantees that you can bring to the Lord in exchange for the blessings that they guarantee. And that's what promises are. They are God's way of giving you something to give to Him in exchange for the blessings that those promises guarantee.
You've been very kind with your time today, Johnny. You are precious to us. We love you in the Lord and God bless you in the coming year. Love you too, Wayne. Blessings on you as well and Happy New Year. There is no one else in the world quite like Johnny Tata and it's always a joy and extremely encouraging to speak with her. If you'd like more information about Johnny and her new book, The Practice of the Presence of Jesus, just visit FirstPersonInterview.com where you'll find a helpful link. That's FirstPersonInterview.com.
And if you joined us in the middle of this conversation, please note that this program is available as a podcast on Apple, Spotify, and many other podcast platforms. You can subscribe and never miss future editions. Look for First Person Interview. First Person is made possible by the generosity of the Far East Broadcasting Company, which believes in the power of the gospel to change lives and give purpose to life. Learn more about FEBC by visiting febc.org.
Now, with thanks to my friend and producer, Joe Carlson, I'm Wayne Shepherd. Join us next time for First Person.