Jen and her longtime friend, Amy Hardin, are back together to introduce this interview with Kate Bowler that originally aired as a premium channel episode. They examine the ways a “toxic positivity” mindset and a misguided understanding of “blessings” can harm relationships and culture.

If you’ve ever felt your soul drag to the ground after reading a #blessed post on Instagram, there’s relief for you here. Kate Bowler shows us a gentler way to look at the concept of blessings, so that someone else’s #blessing doesn’t feel like our #fail.

In the interview, Jen and Kate talk about:

A brief history of the prosperity gospel in America and the origins of toxic positivity
The original definition of “blessing” from the Bible
The absurdity of life and how tragedy can feel when watching other people’s happiness
What the point of praying is
Kate tries out being a late night radio DJ and shares a blessing she wrote specifically for our podcast

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Thought-Provoking Quotes:

“[Toxic positivity] is the overemphasis, the bright siding of truth to the point where you can't be honest. You can't really say what's going on.” - Kate Bowler

“There is frankly almost no relationship between people's lives working out and whether they are fundamentally good and lovable by God among other people, period.” - Kate Bowler

“I was in a waiting room the other day looking over at two people absolutely cracking each other up over an oxygen machine. And I felt the flicker of the tragic comedy of the world, and I was like, ‘Yep, that is a little blessing.’” - Kate Bowler

“Such a weird moment when your life is in tatters and then you just see somebody walking their dog. You're like, ‘What are you doing? How is that happening? Why are you laughing?’” - Jen Hatmaker