Deep Dive
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This is the Global News Podcast from the BBC World Service. I'm Andrew Peach and at 14 hours GMT on Tuesday the 13th of May, these are our main stories. President Trump's lavish welcome in Saudi Arabia as he seeks trade deals worth a trillion dollars. The
The latest on whether President Zelensky will meet Vladimir Putin in peace talks in Istanbul on Thursday. And the head of the main UN agency for Palestinians tells the BBC Israel's blockade of food deliveries to Gaza is a war crime. Also in this podcast, one of France's biggest film stars, Gérard Depardieu, is found guilty of sexual assault. For me, it's a victory, truly a great step forward. I feel justice prevailed. And...
But the thought that he could be going behind enemy lines, if you like, and working for the man who was his great adversary for so many years, helping him trying to win a 25th Grand Slam title so soon, was phenomenal. Tennis rivals Andy Murray and Novak Djokovic end their partnership. President Trump has landed in Saudi Arabia for his first foreign trip since returning to the White House.
He was greeted by a military guard of honour, the emphasis of this trip being on trade, the president hoping to secure deals worth a trillion dollars. Saudi Arabia was also the first country Mr Trump went to in his first term in the White House, so why is it so important to him? Our North America editor Sarah Smith is travelling with the president.
Because it's about the cash, to be absolutely brutally blunt about it, Donald Trump is not on a diplomatic mission to cure any kind of peace deals or negotiate long-term strategic goals in the Middle East. He is here to secure American investment, and Saudi Arabia has promised him hundreds of billions of dollars of it.
Donald Trump's visiting three countries in all, first Saudi Arabia, also Qatar and the United Arab Emirates. And if it goes as he hopes, he wants to go home with $1 trillion worth of promised investment in America, which, of course, he can tell his constituents is money coming to their communities for prosperity and jobs.
His son, Eric Trump, has been on a sweep through the Middle East doing deals with the Trump Organization in all the countries that Donald Trump is visiting for new Trump towers and hotels, commissioning a Saudi building firm to do hundreds of millions of dollars worth of work for them. He has signed on the dotted line all of these personal business deals from which Donald Trump himself will ultimately profit just before his father sweeps through on this political visit.
All of this, of course, has a whiff of corruption about it, say Donald Trump's adversaries. But he has always been very, very upfront about saying, look, if it's out in the open, if it's transparent, if you know about it, then it cannot be corrupt. Although, of course, what many of his critics are saying is we have no idea what he might promise now or in the future in return for this. Also in Riyadh, our chief international correspondent Lise de Sette gave me her take on the trip.
It's a very royal welcome for the United States of America. This is a very strong personal relationship between Donald Trump, the President of the United States, and the de facto ruler of Saudi Arabia, Mohammed bin Salman. This relationship has gone from strength to strength, and it is threaded through with very ambitious visions for this region and very ambitious deal-making.
There has been a flurry of diplomatic activity from the Trump administration in the past couple of days, even by his standards. He's been involved in negotiations over Ukraine, Russia, over India, Pakistan, over Gaza, over the trade deals with China. What's on the agenda during this trip?
It is a dizzying week for diplomacy and this is very much the signature of President Trump's style is that everyone wonders in the morning just what will President Trump post on his Truth Social platform? What will he say when there's a microphone in front of him and he seems to have microphones in front of him at all times of day and he'll certainly be speaking out here. Will he speak about the meeting on Thursday if there is a meeting?
between President Putin and President Zelensky of Ukraine. President Trump has even said that if something happens in Istanbul, and there's some skepticism that it will, that he's willing to join those talks. Will he talk about moving towards a ceasefire in Gaza? He's made it clear, as he does on every other front line, he wants those wars to end. And it's been clear that there's a growing impatience between him and the leader of Israel, the Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
President Trump's envoy for the Middle East, his envoy for everything really, Steve Witkoff, also took the unprecedented step of publicly criticizing Israel for dragging its feet, keeping the war going when it had achieved all of its objectives. So we may hear something about the Gaza ceasefire. We may hear about other issues, but we'll see a lot of images of him with his Sharpie pen signing those deals. He's got prominent business and tech leaders who've come to the kingdom with him as well.
Donald Trump is certainly very comfortable striding the international stage, meeting other world leaders. He gets a lot of criticism for all sorts of things. Is this something he's actually quite good at?
Well, he likes to see himself as the world's best dealmaker. He attributes his success to his own personal style, to personal relationships, and this is very much on show here. He doesn't hide his admiration for the kind of authoritarian rulers who can literally call the shots in their own country, and if those rulers...
are also fabulously wealthy, well, that's even more attractive to President Trump. He likes all the glitter. He likes all the gold. He likes the lavish receptions. All of this he'll get in abundance here on this trip. There's going to be no signs of any tension between the Saudi and American leadership, between American and Saudi ambitions. None of that awkwardness that we saw when President Biden, our listeners may remember how in his election speech,
campaign many years ago. He had vowed to make the Saudi kingdom a pariah state, and then he then really had to eat humble pie. He arrived here in the kingdom and did a fist bump with Mohammed bin Salman, because no matter who's in power in the White House, they have to deal with Saudi Arabia. Not only is it one of the world's most important oil producers, huge sovereign wealth fund, but more and more Saudi Arabia is a pivotal political player in the region.
Our chief international correspondent, Lise de Sette, with me from Riyadh. There's more from Lise on our website at bbc.com slash news. Now, there's hope that Donald Trump's Middle East tour could help bring about a ceasefire in Gaza and address the dire humanitarian situation there.
Philippe Lanzarini is head of UNRWA, the main UN agency for Palestinians, and has told BBC News that Israel's blockade of food deliveries to Palestinians in Gaza constitutes a war crime. He's also denied Israel's repeated criticism of UNRWA. And Philippe Lanzarini has been talking to my colleague, our international editor, Jeremy Bowen.
Look, the Israelis say that your activities are hopelessly compromised in Gaza by infiltration by Hamas and the fact that staffers at UNRWA actually took part in the killing on 7th October.
Well, first of all, we do not have any proof that staff of UNRWA has participated to the October 7 massacre. There have been an investigation for 19 staff and the conclusion has been that for nine of them, if the information can be authentified and corroborated, they might be killed.
a crime behind it and they should be held accountable. The Agency decided, for the sake of the Agency, to suspend the 19 staff, even for those for which there was absolutely no proof. Since then, we are receiving hundreds of allegations from the State of Israel
Israel has not allowed any humanitarian aid in now for, what, more than two months. How serious is the situation there for civilians? I think we have a super...
Soon no word anymore to describe the misery and the tragedy affecting the people in Gaza. Starvation is spreading, people are exhausted, people are hungry and more and more now we can expect in the coming weeks if no aid is coming in that people will not just die because of the bombardment but they will die because of the lack of food aid.
Do you think Israel is using food aid, medical aid, humanitarian aid as a weapon of war? I have absolutely no doubt, and this is what we have witnessed during these last 19 months, but especially during these last two months. That's a war crime? That will be qualified as a war crime.
The qualification will come from the ICG, not from me. But what I can say, what we see, what we observe, food and humanitarian assistance is indeed being used to meet political or military objectives in the context of Gaza. That's nothing else than the weaponisation of humanitarian assistance. There are international rules.
Do you think they are applied to Israel with the same tenacity as they might be applied to other countries? A lot of people say there are double standards. Well, you have the answer in your question. There is a double standard. There is a feeling that it is selectively implemented, that some rules do not apply the same way when it comes to Israel, Palestine. And there is a very, very deep
deeper feeling of injustice in the region, which is also fueling polarisation. Do you share that feeling? I do share this feeling. It's deeply frustrating.
Thursday's expected talks between Ukraine and Russia will be the first direct negotiations between the warring sides since Moscow's full-scale invasion in 2022. It follows pressure from the US for the two sides to meet face to face, but who will be at that meeting in Istanbul? Will we see President Putin and President Zelensky sitting across the same table? I've been talking to our Russia editor from BBC Monitoring, Vitaly Shevchenko.
What we know is that Ukraine demands that Vladimir Putin is there. Basically, Volodymyr Zelensky has challenged him to travel to Turkey and meet the Ukrainian leader for talks.
But the Kremlin's response has been evasive. This morning, Vladimir Putin's spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, of course, he was asked about this at his daily press briefing. And all he said was that preparations continue. I can't really tell any more.
We will announce who exactly will be going to Turkey when Vladimir Putin deems it necessary. Ukraine has stopped short of saying that it's Putin or nothing. Mikhail Podolyak, who is a key presidential advisor in Ukraine, he said that Zelensky will only speak to Putin, but that doesn't rule out the possibility of talks at a
at a more junior level. But everything I know about Vladimir Putin makes me think that he's extremely unlikely to go there because he absolutely despises Vladimir Zelensky. He has questioned his legitimacy. And he will be putting himself on the same level as Zelensky, which of course Putin won't want to do.
And he also despises being told what to do, being pressured into doing things. Donald Trump –
to be the only world leader who has anything to do with this situation who seems to believe that Vladimir Putin may be there. And Zelensky, of course, can't say, well, I won't go because the next thing that will happen is Trump will put something on social media that sort of forces him into doing so anyway. Which is precisely what Vladimir Putin's plan is for the past year.
A few days, I think we've been seeing both Russia and Ukraine trying to pass the ball onto each other's court or passing the buck or the blame for this whole process failing, saying, well, I'm willing to do something you're not. And this has been going on and on and on. There's been less...
Fighting or fewer Russian attacks on Ukraine after Ukraine and its EU allies demanded a ceasefire on Monday and the UK as well. But the fighting still continues. Vitaly Shevchenko, Russia editor at BBC Monitoring.
Two of the world's best tennis stars, Andy Murray and Novak Djokovic, are to end their working partnership after just six months. Djokovic, who has 24 Grand Slam titles, hired Murray as his coach in November. In a statement, Djokovic thanked Murray for all the hard work, fun and support both on and off the court. Our tennis correspondent Russell Fuller says it seems to be an amicable split.
Here was a man in Andy Murray who'd only retired in early August at the Olympics and had said he definitely wanted to take a break. But the thought that he could be going behind enemy lines, if you like, and working for the man who was his great adversary for so many years, helping him trying to win a 25th Grand Slam title so soon was phenomenal. And we enjoyed the ride in Melbourne where Djokovic reached the semifinals before injury denied him playing more than a set against Alex Zverev.
They were also together in Miami where Djokovic reached the final. Only two other events though and on both of those occasions Djokovic lost his first match and he's had a bad run in the two clay court tournaments he's played. He's not playing in the Italian Open at the moment so they've not been together as much and at a
as if it has just fizzled out and we are going to be denied that spectacle at Wimbledon. Djokovic trying to win an eighth title with the two-time Wimbledon champion Andy Murray there in the players' box trying to help him. The two knew each other from childhood. They played a lot together on the junior circuit and the...
they are about 10 days apart in age. And it's one of those relationships that has fluctuated over the years, if you like. There have been times where there have been a great rivalry and certainly Murray was unhappy with some of Djokovic's antics on court in the great finals in which Djokovic invariably won. So they were up
and there were downs, but there was always huge respect. And I think that friendship probably took a step forward in the few months that they have been working together. I don't know for sure, but I don't detect any big falling out here. And I think probably the friendship will only be stronger in future. Our tennis correspondent, Russell Fuller. Still to come on the Global News Podcast...
I'm really, really happy. I mean, how else could I be feeling? I'm super happy being back here. We travel to Syria to meet one family who've returned after the civil war.
Pakistan has indicated it's prepared to work with India and others to address allegations that terrorists operate within its borders. The foreign minister, Ishaq Dar, said he was hopeful direct talks could resolve long-standing problems. The ceasefire announced on Saturday has largely halted the worst clashes in decades between these two nuclear-armed neighbours.
Ishaq Dar has been talking to my colleague Azadeh Moshiri and began by reacting to events of recent days. From north to south of Pakistan, the public was just in chaos and in anger. What's going on in Pakistan? Which throughout India has said it was targeting terrorist infrastructure. Oh, come on. What terrorist infrastructure?
I mean, show us one. Please, you're most welcome. BBC. I visited one of the mosques in Muzaffarabad, which was destroyed. What India is claiming is that every site was connected to some sort of militant activity or training. Their media claimed that they have destroyed Islamabad. You are sitting in Islamabad interviewing me. They said Karachi port has vanished and disappeared from the map. You're welcome to go to Karachi port. What concessions is Pakistan willing to make? What?
when it comes to any monitoring of militants or former militants on Pakistani soil. We are the first worst sufferers of terrorism. We had fought global war against terrorism. We have been the front line ally in the war against terrorism. We have lost 90,000 people. But then it takes two to tango. We have to work together to eliminate the menace of terrorism. What does working together look like?
I think we can work together with, because if they are so allergic not to work together against this menace, we can have two, three more partners. Within hours, our team heard explosions in Srinagar in Indian-administered Kashmir. What were they?
We have nothing to do with this. So sometime it's choreographed. Unfortunately, I don't want to go into any negative. Choreographed, so you think it was India's doing? I don't want to just, because it's a very fresh ceasefire. In this instance, they're talking about violations. Yeah, yeah. We had Jaffar Express just a few weeks back. We didn't blame anybody. We know that we have ample evidence to put blame on certain actors, global actors, but we didn't do it.
Shakhtar with our Pakistan correspondent Azadeh Mashiri in Islamabad. In what's being called France's highest profile MeToo trial, the celebrated French actor Gérard Depardieu has been found guilty of the sexual assault of two women on a film set in 2021. The 76-year-old actor was given an 18-month suspended sentence for having groped a 54-year-old set dresser and a 34-year-old assistant director.
His lawyer, Jérémie Assou, criticised the court's decision. Gerard Depardieu has been found guilty. He will, of course, appeal. But what is particularly important and what must be remembered from this decision is that for the Tenth Chamber of the Paris Criminal Court, accusation equals conviction. From the moment one's implicated in a so-called sexual assault case today, conviction seems automatic, regardless of contradictions, falsehoods or even physical inconsistencies or impossibilities.
One of the women who brought the case, identified as Amelie Kay, expressed her relief. I, who have been quite talkative until now, find myself struggling to express my thoughts today. I am truly moved and I am very, very satisfied with this decision. For me, it is a victory, truly a great step forward, a significant progress. To find out more, I spoke to our correspondent in Paris, Hugh Schofield.
The women had said that they had been separately touched up, basically groped by Gerard Depoyer on this film set in 2021. One of them said that on three occasions she'd been accompanying him from his dressing room to the set and he touched her buttocks on one occasion and her breasts on another occasion through her clothes. The other one said that they'd had a minor altercation and he'd gripped her between his legs. He was sitting down and sort of held her between his legs and
And making lewd comments all the while. He'd said and his defense had said that this was not the case, that he did maybe touch them accidentally or to get his balance back or whatever. But there'd be no sexual intention. But the court simply did not believe him.
The lawyer for the women has said this is the end of impunity for the French film industry. Will it make a significant difference, do you think, in that way? Well, I mean, you've got to see this as part of a process. Things are undoubtedly changing. This is not the only trial.
that has arisen from the kind of junction of the Me Too movement and practices that have undoubtedly gone on in the French film world longer than in maybe the English-speaking world of cinema. There has undoubtedly been a kind of blind eye turned to certain stars, Gérard Depedure among them, who've been allowed to get away with behaviour which is no longer deemed acceptable. I mean, in his trial, I was there when he said...
I know I'm from a different era. And that is basically, I think, the fact. You know, he grew up in a time when touching women up in this way was regarded not as a welcome thing, but a sort of reprehensible but hardly criminal affair. And now he's in a world where it is a criminal affair. And he hasn't caught up with the times. And I think that is the explanation. He moves in a mental era which has passed. Yeah.
And I just wonder where French public opinion is on these issues and on him now. It's very generational, I would say. I would say that younger people are far more likely to be in line with the prosecution and what the court has decided. In other words, that there is a criminal aspect to this, that examples need to be made, that it's no longer possible for...
what Depardieu did to go on and there are though of course and this is well known, it's been spoken of a lot older people in France, particularly in the world of acting, people who have leapt to his defence saying that it is completely out of proportion what has happened to him now with his career effectively ended not for rape, not for anything that comes close to rape but for
touching women in admittedly unwelcome ways, but hardly ways which in the past people like Brigitte Bardot would say they were able to fend off easily enough by slapping men down. That's the attitude of people of his generation.
Hugh Schofield with me from Paris. It's been five months since the toppling of the Assad regime in Syria. A long period of dictatorship and a civil war that broke out in 2011 had caused millions to flee their homes. Now some of them are slowly starting to return. Tim Huell has been to Homs, Syria's third city, and the scene of some of the worst destruction, to meet one family who've gone back home.
This is an amazing sight. So there's a convoy as far back as the eye can see along the road. We're in the centre of Homs, and this is a convoy bringing back 100 families, displaced people from camps in the north of Syria back here to their home city after years away.
So they're being greeted here in the centre of the city. There are many traditional costumes, leather boots, black and white caps, silk embroidered shirts as they're about to get off the buses.
Syria, five months after the fall of the Assad regime, after a civil war which began in 2011, which forced half the population to move. Six million fled abroad, seven million within Syria. Bringing them back is perhaps the country's biggest challenge.
My name is Fatima Hazura. So how do you feel to be back here? I'm really, really happy. I mean, how else could I be feeling? I'm super happy being back here. She's also inviting us to go to her home.
We're going to Baba Amr, which is really the absolute centre of the fighting in the early years of the revolution, probably the most destroyed part of Homs. They're unloading mattresses, carpets, pots and pans. But it's not Fatima's old home. Most of that's uninhabitable. This is a rented flat. Even so, Fatima's son-in-law, Abdul Razak, who's travelled back with her, is rejoicing today.
Do you have a job here in Homs? Almost everyone I've met says that.
We've come now to the family's old house.
Two rockets hit our house. One hit this room and the other hit the wall there. She doesn't know when they'll be able to return, but today at least they can celebrate. It is a happy day indeed. And after we finish unloading the truck, we're going to have lunch together. Maybe you can join us for lunch. Thank you very much. Tim Huell in Homs.
Father Samuel David Miranda is from Chiclayo in Peru, the town where Pope Leo served for over two decades. He may have been born in Chicago, but the people of Chiclayo and wider Peru are claiming him as their own. Restaurants around the town proudly advertise the Pope ate here, and banners are draped across Chiclayo with the newly appointed Pope's face.
As news starts to sink in, Father Samuel David Miranda has been talking to my colleague Mimi Swaby and began by telling her how he knows the Pope.
I am from Chiclayo, from the same diocese where he spent the last few years before coming to Rome. And as a Chiclayo native, I felt the times I was able to meet him, because I do not belong to the clergy of Chiclayo, I belong to another diocese,
But the times I met him, I always found him to be a very welcoming man, very simple and with a very, very gentle gaze and with a very deep gaze. The first time I met him was on the day of my ordination, which was in June 2018. I found he was always concerned with a lot of detail and always attentive to what people told him.
I invited him to the day of the celebration of my ordination and he came and there were even some photographs and videos of that little moment and the times we have met on other occasions.
I've always perceived him as very close, very attentive. How do you think his time in Peru has influenced his view of the world? Peru definitely helped his sensitivity towards others.
Just look at the photographs of him walking through puddles of water and giving a plate of food to the most needy, hugging children and young people. Remember that he is a devout person and as a priest and as a missionary he has had to experience very deep realities. I believe that Peru and Chiclayo above all taught him to be a good missionary.
And that has been the foundation for him to place the poor and the whole world at the centre of his pontificate today. I hope for a pontificate where he will continue to be simple, close, profound and brotherly. A week before he was elected, before the conclave, I was talking to a friend of mine and he said to me, hey, what would happen if the bishop who ordained you in Chiclayo became the new pope? And
And I said to him, well, it would be crazy. It would be extraordinary. And that conversation, which seemed to be a bit of a joke, came true because God wanted it that way. That is God's work. He used, when he stepped out onto the balcony to make his first announcement, a word that I believe will mark his pontificate.
You only have to look at the Pope and that is what he conveys, a great deal of peace. Father Samuel David Miranda with Mimi Swaby. And that's all from us for now. There'll be a new edition of Global News to download later. If you'd like to comment on this podcast, email globalpodcast at bbc.co.uk or find us on X at BBC World Service and use the hashtag Global News Pod.
This edition was produced by Harry Bly and Simran Sohal. It was mixed by Callum McLean. The editor is Karen Martin. I'm Andrew Peach. Thanks for listening. And until next time, goodbye.