How Scottie Scheffler steadied himself, outlasted the field at the PGA Championship
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Hello and welcome into this edition of the Golf Show Podcast with Rex and Lav. Well, the winner of the 107th PGA Championship is world number one, Scotty Scheffler. Tied with nine holes to play in the PGA Championship, Scotty Scheffler played nearly flawlessly to the clubhouse, ended up with a five-shot victory, third major title, first non-masters title. Rex, you and I were both out there hoofing it at Quail Hollow. What were your thoughts on this major Sunday?

We have a very close friend. I would maybe even call him a mentor. His name is Jeff Rude. He worked at golf week when both of us started there and he was at the golf course today. And as he normally would, he's retired now. He recited his lead to me. So I'm like, God, read off what his quote unquote lead would be. Just trotting out lines. Trotting out leads. Last year, Scotty Scheffler spent Thursday at the PGA championship in jail. This year at the season's second major, he put everyone else on lockdown, which I thought was actually a pretty good lead for someone who's out of practice. So I gave him credit.

on that one it was interesting and i think you and i both made a joke on the sunday night podcast that maybe we just should have taped the 52 minute version that was going to run monday morning this version on linear uh saturday night just be done with it maybe leave some things open maybe we could fill in exactly what he shot in the final round how much he won by and it wasn't that way at all i know anyone that we're going to look back at this major a few years from now and think that

Scottie just lapped the field. It wasn't very interesting. That wasn't the case at all. It was the tale of two Scottie Shefflers. And I love the idea that he starts out and he was a flawed golfer, I guess is the best way of saying it. He had a wicked case of the lefts. I think he missed his first. I think he was left in five of the seven fairways that he played on the opening nine holes. And yet he gets to the 10th tee, and we're going to get into what his caddie, Teddy Scott, said, and his swing coach, Randy Smith, said.

However, it was just Scotty being ultimate Scotty once he picked it up on the second nine. He was tied for the lead with Jon Rahm when he walked to the 10th tee and he ends up just blowing away the field. I mean, it was close. It was tight. It was compelling. But the outcome never felt like it was in doubt.

There was no point Sunday at Quell Hollow when I thought that Scottie Scheffler was going to lose the golf tournament. I realize, as you pointed out with the left misses, he hit just two of his first six greens. His lead actually on the front nine swelled from three shots in.

to five shots. And by the time he made the turn because of a series of bogeys, he dropped into a share of the lead with Jon Rahm. I at no point thought that this was going to be yet another major championship in which one of the preeminent stars of the game. First, it was Roy McIlroy at the Masters, coughing up a five-shot lead, not once, but multiple times throughout the course of the final round of the Masters. Scotty Shuffler

Five shots clear, then dropped into a share of the lead. This did not fill me with sort of the existential dread that that match on Sunday did, that we're actually witnessing a collapse. Once Scottie Scheffler played the 10th hole to sort of nudge his way back out in front...

And to see that then he, the way that he played, I would say the next four or five holes, it was absolute perfect golf. And I know we're going to go back to what happened on Saturday night and the five hole stretch in which he played in five under par as sort of the swing that won him this PGA championship.

But I would argue under the circumstances with the pressure, not having his best stuff, how he played numbers 10 through 15, arguably just as impressive and certainly more important than what happened on Saturday.

And I don't even know. That's a good point. I wouldn't stop at 15. I think certainly what he even did on the green mile to finish up because things could have gotten sideways there. He had quite cushion at that point, but that's the hardest closing stretch in major championship golf and professional golf period. So it's not as though he was able to skate home. I know it kind of looked like a victory lap, but even as he was standing on the 16 T, I thought he still has to hit.

some golf shots. It's still out there where things were going to get away from him. I'll point, I'll go back and use what you usually like to lean into. And that's the stats going into the final round. He had picked up 14 shots. I like, I like to use facts. Well, you kind of do the stat salad sometimes. And I think that makes my eyes roll up in the back of my head, but he had picked up 14 shots on the field strokes, game T to green through three rounds. It's what he does best clearly first in the field. And this is quintessential Scotty Scheffler.

The opening nine, he gave up two shots to the field, which is not Scotty Scheffler at all. And you could see it like something was off. Something was wrong, whether that was nerves, whether that we talked to his swing coach after the fact. And the warm up was fine. It's not like anything felt different. I think the idea that Randy Smith told you and I, his swing coach, is he just started pressing.

I think he's probably felt like he needed to do something special on the opening night. And he gets to the 10th tee, as we pointed out, and he's tied for the lead now. And I love how simple the exchange was between he and his caddie, Ted Scott, that he finally turns to Teddy and what's going on. And Ted said, he's seen a swing enough and the swing looks fine. Maybe you just need to aim a little bit further, right? And it was as simple as that. I'm sure it was a little bit more complicated. I'm sure it was a little bit more nuanced.

But when it comes to Scotty Scheffler and how he boils things down to the simplest terms, it's the perfect metaphor.

for why he is such a good golfer. He didn't get caught up in his head. He didn't get caught up in the idea that I'm going to end up losing this. It's going to be an epic collapse. I'm not quite in the same vein as you. I actually had some moments where I thought to myself, this could get tight. I didn't have moments of dread, but I was thinking it could get tight just because of the way John Rahm was playing. Bryson DeChambeau was certainly playing well enough. Quail Hollow, and we're going to get into the discussion later, is a unique test though.

if once you get through 14 and 15 both birdie holes that you need to take advantage of there's nothing left out there i i will say this anecdote just to point out and i thought this was really funny

Harris English ended up finishing second. He was halfway to Dallas on a private plane by the time Scottie Scheffler finished up. It never even dawned on him that he shouldn't get on that plane. It never even dawned on him that, oh, maybe something will happen and I need to hang around. He was even asked after the round, and it's like, it's Scottie Scheffler. What do you think he's going to do? I mean, he finished four hours before him. I didn't have dread. I didn't think he was collapsing. But there were certainly moments of this could get really tight and really fun.

Yeah, I think this was probably a testament to his adaptability, to his tenacity. And the reason why I think it was so impressive, because when you go through the shots that he hit, and I know what you're saying about 16 and 17, that you could throw them in with the green mile and how he sort of navigated trouble there. But just going through those shots,

where on 10, he's in the green side bunker. He could have taken on more risk with his green side bunker shot with a, with a very small shelf up there. Instead plays a conservatively to the right-hand side, makes a 10 footer on 11. He's pin high after finding the fairway on 12,

He's pin high after finding the fairway on 13 and 205 yard par three. He hits a pin high on 14. He lives in the absolute perfect spot in the green side bunker, splashes out to six feet, 15 finds a fairway, hits a pin high, gets down in two 16. Yes. Although he did miss in the fairway bunker, leaving himself a little bit of a tricky shot. He had one, at least a question backed off a couple of times, whether he could move a small pebble near his ball. He hit the absolute perfect shot.

leaving himself short and right of the green, can then play it straightforward. On 17, hits it short and right of the green, perfectly straightforward, not bringing any sort of trouble. It's not even having Rex like a great strategy because I think every player can approach a golf course and a golf tournament and have a strategy.

Scotty Scheffler's superpower is that he plots like the absolute best strategy possible alongside his now, how many major championships has Ted Scott won? This would be five majors overall. Like obviously Teddy Scott knows exactly what he's doing. It's not even that they have this great strategy. It's that Scotty Scheffler has the skill and the talent to execute that game plan to perfection. It's like if you could place a golf ball

in the perfect spot along the golf course, especially when playing with the lead. That's what Scottie Scheffler does. And that's what Scottie Scheffler did on the back nine. And that's why it was such a convincing victory in the end. I'm so glad you used the word tenacity because I think when we look back at this major championship, and I think it'll get, again, it'll get lost in history and everyone will

think, well, no, he left the field. It was never even close. And that's really not the case, as we pointed out. However, and this never happens, where if I was actually to break down what he did all week long, I would argue that the 16th hole

on Thursday is where he actually won this championship. I'll go a step further and say the 17th team is probably where he won this championship. Let's go back when we were talking about the quaintest of ideas, mud balls, mud on golf balls, and go back to that power pairing. It was Roy McIlroy. It was Andrew Shoffley. It was Scotty Scheffler. And both...

Scotty Scheffler and Xander Schauffele had hit perfect drives right in the middle of the fairway and both of them had mud balls and snap hooked wildly into the water. Both made double bogey. It was just a mess. As they should. And I want to get back to the idea that I,

I thought Scottie Scheffler made probably the best argument that I have ever heard that just played preferred lives, just played live clean in place. The idea being that here is Scottie Scheffler, who's dedicated his life to be the absolute best at this one thing.

hitting the golf ball. And he's probably worked harder than anyone else. And he's gotten there. This is what separates him from everyone else. And this arbitrary rule that the PGA of America decided not to play preferred lives after just monsoons of rain, biblical rain, is ridiculous. I totally understand.

But in that moment, when they've snapped hooked their balls into the water and essentially given two strokes back to the field because someone made an arbitrary rule, it would have been really easy to get angry, to start complaining, to get in your own head, to get to the 17th tee and think to yourself, I'm just going to go ahead and try to do something special here. It's Thursday. There was no reason to do it. I would argue, and again, he started on number 10.

on Thursday. So he still had a lot of golf to play. I think he played the rest of the way in and three under par. That, in my mind, is what won this tournament. Yeah. I mean, I think he was two under par. He made three birdies.

The rest of the way, again, Friday, he did not play his best golf. I mean, the stretch that won the golf tournament, I think it's indisputable, at least statistically, was the 500 stretch over the last five holes on Saturday. Like gaining 5.23 shots going to data golf on that stretch against his competition is just otherworldly. He hit eight perfect golf shots.

to stake himself to a three-shot lead over a pretty unproven pack of contenders that it turned out did not threaten him. Jon Rahm was further back, Bryson Shambo further back as well. So I think there was three stretches to your point, right? Like I think it's his rebound from 16 on Thursday. I think it's his closing stretch on Saturday. And I think it's those six perfect holes that he played, like perfect execution while under the gun, while not feeling his best that won him the golf tournament. Like statistically, this was not,

This was not his best tournament that he's ever played, right? Like he was outside the top five off the tee when we've seen him be absolutely surgical. And it was not his best play with his irons as well. But I think he picked the right times to really capitalize and pounce.

You know, like if there was a moment when, which he could seize momentum and either bring it from round to round or sort of string together a couple of bounce backs to either steady himself and push back in front. I think that was how Scotty Scheffler won this golf tournament. When you look Rex sort of big picture now at Scotty Scheffler, his three major championships all have been by at least three shots.

He has now won back-to-back starts on technically the PGA Tour with at least a five-shot margin of victory. Is Scottie Scheffler playing better golf than he played last year, which seems ridiculous to even consider, seeing how the fact that he did things we haven't seen since Pete Tiger Woods and won nine times in the calendar year 2024.

Well, and add Tiger even more to the equation, winning back-to-back by more than five strokes. The last person who did that was Tiger Woods in 2000. We keep going back to this, and I don't particularly like to do it because I always find Tiger to be an unfair measuring stick when it comes to anyone, simply because he set the standard so high. I think the column you're going to write tonight is very valid, that at this point in time, only history is Scottie Scheffler's competitor, true competitor.

However, most of that history, most of those benchmarks were set by Tiger Woods. To answer your question, I don't know. I don't think he's playing the best golf because as you pointed out, statistically, we're not gonna look back

at the 2025 PGA Championship and just marvel over his ball striking numbers or his putting numbers or short game numbers. They were all very, very good. Don't get me wrong, but he's had better. He's been in situations where he has actually played better. But isn't that the point? That he just beat the strongest and deepest field in all of major championship golf by five shots without playing his best golf. Like that's a terrifying prospect for the rest of the world.

And I would compare that to Tiger as well. Like, look, we would have that type. We had that conversation throughout Tiger Woods's reign about he would win for his B game or maybe a C plus game or whatever the case may be. The other comparison that I'm going to make on dog channel dot com is the idea that I don't know that there's been another player outside of Tiger Woods that's able to adjust on the fly.

We've touched on the idea that that front nine was scrappy at best. I can come up with a lot of other words to describe it, but he simply did not have his best stuff. To suddenly find some sort of gear, whatever it is that clicked on the 10th tee, maybe it was as simple as just aim a little bit further right, as Ted Scott suggested, that's fine.

But he's the one that executed, as you pointed out, perfect golf. And it's really hard. Anyone who's ever played the game, let alone at the highest level, can attest to trying to find a fix in the middle of a round.

is next to impossible because your mind is probably spinning. And so for him to have the presence of mind, that's the part that impresses me most because I agree with you. I'm not quite sure he's playing the best golf of his career. I will still go back to last year when he had those historic stroke game numbers. He's not quite there, but he's still really good.

Yeah, and the thing about Scottie is all three of his major championship victories now have been when he was staked to the 54-hole lead. And he's always had these little wobbles and bobbles throughout the final round. Remember in 2022 with the Masters, and he talked about curling up in the fetal position, not sure if he was ready for all of this that was going to transpire with a major championship. He sort of got on untracked.

in that final round by chipping in for birdie on number three, right? Like that sort of set him going after a little bit of a nervy start. You think back to the 2024 masters, that was a really tight golf tournament with Ludwig Oberg among others who were in the mix on the second nine. Instead, Roy Mack, or excuse me, Scottie Scheffler puts the throttle down, ends up winning that final round.

that golf tournament by four shots. This time it's John Rom who pressures him when Scotty Shuffler is not playing his best over the open nine. He always seems to steady himself and he does so because he's relying on gifts and

to sort of prove the point that I'm going to be making on sports.com slash golf on Sunday night is he's relying on gifts that we have not seen since tiger. You look at this strictly from a strokes game perspective. Like it's he's, he's peerless among this generation. You're going back to tiger woods. You're going back to the history makers in this sport to compare Scotty Scheffler. He is the most accurate driver among the elite players. He is the best iron player by far.

of the elite players, if not in the entire world of golf, at least that we've seen over the past 25 years. He's the number one scrambler on the PGA Tour. So even on the off chance, Rex, that he's getting himself in trouble, he has the best hands and he has the best ability to get up and down from sort of those precarious positions. And then, oh yeah, thanks to the work that he's done with Phil Kenyon, who he's worked with for basically a year and a half now, they changed the claw grip last December. Scotty Scheffler is now a top 20 putter

on the PGA tour. So you have incredible driving accuracy. You have incredible precision. Number one player in proximity of the hole. You have the best scrambler and you have not just an average putter. Remember we used to say, if Scottie Shuffler could just putt average, right?

He's going to win a boatload of tournaments. He's not putting average anymore, Rex. He's putting at an elite level. And so when you put all of this combined with a pretty peerless mind and the strategy that he's sort of navigating a golf course with, and he has the winningest major championship caddy, at least active, on his bag,

In Ted Scott, like it's it's really hard to see how this train would be stopping anytime soon. I always think it's like insulting when Sky Shuffler is mentioned in press conference and he's asked questions and people refer to it as a run or people refer to it as a hot streak. This is not a hot streak.

This is not a run. We are now in year four, midway through year four of Scottie Scheffler being the most dominant player on the planet. And he's shown absolutely zero signs of letting up. If anything, he's improving. Well, I'll call an error.

Let's call it the year. I think you're right. Let's call it the Scotty Scheffler era at this point, because you're right. It's absolutely not a run. I will go back to the idea of the conversation. We were probably having no fewer than five weeks ago, maybe even less than that, that what's wrong with Scotty Scheffler. I don't think you and I engaged in that, but there were plenty in the media that did because he had not won on the PGA tour. I think my argument and your argument at the time was, I think his worst finish before that was outside the top 20 in Phoenix. If that was rock bottom,

then okay i think everything is going to be fine i'm taken by the idea that he was a man that doesn't seem to be influenced by the outside world one way or the other who wants to keep his insular world as insular as physically possible he has his circle and that's going to be it and once he's either going to be working on that game and becoming brilliant at it he's going to be playing that game and being brilliant at it or he's going to be at home surrounded by that small circle

If you listen to him tonight when he spoke with the media, the idea that he was motivated by all of those questions, by those of us in the media who question him, because he gets to this spot. And I think the equivalency here was Rory McIlroy and Rory not having a great week. And you almost saw Scotty go back to the idea that I don't understand why you do that. Like I could miss the cut next week.

at colonial which he's going to be playing and suddenly you're going to be asking what's wrong with scotty scheffler very reactionary i guess the part that shocks me is he takes it to heart he uses it as fuel he is i would equate him when it comes to at least the mentality of an athlete like a michael jordan or a tiger woods where you use the tiniest of slights and you dig through that and you make sure that you can use that to fire you up to do the next thing when i talk to randy smith

on Sunday night about the the idea of of what have you unlocked over these past couple of months because yeah there was some it wasn't even criticism of Scottish Sheffield but we were we were dissecting his performance as we do on a weekly basis on this podcast and sort of seeing why has he not won right why has he not across the finish line in 2025 when he was doing so with such regularity

in 2024 and at least early on and he was coming back from the hand issue like yeah his driving accuracy was not up to his typical standards he ended up getting that fixed by the time that he left the west coast swing his proximity to the hole particularly with his wedges was not as tight as it typically is that came down to reps that came down to practice once he had more time after the florida swing he was able to hone that in as well

The scrambling was always sort of a little bit of an offshoot that I think was, was sort of chalked up to him sort of putting so much more time in his ball striking, trying to get that. But like there was, there certainly was a level of frustration as related to sky chef that we didn't see,

for the most part in 2024, because things were going so well. I remember Randy Smith on the, on the tournament practice area at Augusta national. He was like bear hugging Scotty. He was, you know, he was, he was grabbing him by the arms. You know, he looked like he was, you know, trying to get his shoulders aligned earlier this week, exasperated,

At Quell Hollow, he was riding them like journalism at the Preakness, like holding his belt, trying to move him and thrust him in a certain position to get his hips to drive through the golf ball. It's clear at times this season that he has not had full control of his swing.

but it is, it's a testament to Scottie's all around completeness of his game. That is worse. Finish is barely outside the top 20. He has won twice. He has now won a different major championship than he has typically won. I don't think like that's,

we're almost like understating how important that is. This guy, Shuffler just won his second different major championship, his third major championship overall. He just nudged himself ahead of all of those guys in the two major club, whether it's a Justin Thomas, whether it's a John Rom, whether it's a calm or a Cowa, whether it's a Xander Shoffley, like it's important to,

to sort of march and make that march towards history, which it certainly seems like Scottie Scheffler is going to do a Brooks Koepka in his sights at five, a Roy McIlroy in his sights at five, a Phil Mickelson in his sights at six, like all of those are on the table over the next couple of years.

I would tend to agree with that. And the idea that we would look at his resume before this week and somehow something was wanting because he'd only won two majors and they were the same major championship. And we're going to get into the career grand slam idea in a moment. I kind of went to something different in the press conference, because if you're looking for historical context, we all know what happened last year at Valhalla at the PGA championship. What happened again, brought it up at the lead. He spent Friday morning warming up in a jail cell.

And he almost allowed himself to touch on that, where it's been a year now. You heard the interviews that he did with ESPN. He seems to have moved on. He seems to have a bit of a sense of humor in it. And he was asked specifically, is there some sort of gratification that you get from doing this a year later after that, which was probably, I would argue, the low point of his life, if not professionally, then maybe personally.

because let's face it, he was faced with some serious charges until all of those charges were dropped. And he kind of let down his guard for a minute. He kind of talked about the idea that I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it. He went back to last year and said what he has repeatedly said, that it still doesn't feel real. He still doesn't understand exactly what happened. But I can't imagine any human being having gone through that rinse and repeat cycle, didn't get to this point holding that particular trophy and can't feel some sort of satisfaction.

Yeah, certainly a full circle moment as it relates to Sky Scheffler and the PGA Championship. I was thinking, Rex, like one of those players that he did nudge himself across with that two major threshold was Jon Rahm. And it wasn't too long ago that those two were considered at the start of a budding rivalry. Tie for lead was Jon Rahm with seven holes to play. Sky Scheffler had the entire back nine to play. What did you make of Jon Rahm's performance in the final round of Quail Hollow?

I think we can break this down. The idea that Jon Rahm had been probably taking a lot of slings and arrows since he joined Liv Goff, and maybe for some pretty legitimate reasons, if we're being honest. Because when he joined Liv Goff, he was by far the most dominant player in the game. Now fast forward to where he ended up.

And he simply wasn't playing his best golf. And the only way to really measure that, and you and I have batted this around, because it's really hard to do the head-to-head comparison with the way the game is fractured at the moment. The only way to do it is at the major championships. And to be quite frank, he didn't do that. I think he had one top 10 finish in the major championships since he had joined Live Golf. That was at last year's Open Championships. And I had to look it up. He finished tied for seventh, and he started that final round tied for 15th and six strokes back. So it was very much a backdoor situation.

Top 10. And the narrative was since joining Liv Goff, somehow that made him soft, that somehow that took away the edge. I don't know if I particularly agree with that, but I can get how people get to that point. He was asked specifically about this week and had a fascinating answer.

If you ask me, because he pointed out that even before he left to go to live golf, he was struggling that his swing wasn't where he wanted to be. And that when he got there, it took him a little while to come around. I think there is some real legitimacy to that answer.

Based on the idea that he was a top five player when he left, I think he's still very much a top five player. Now, fast forward to this week. I would almost equate this to what happened at the Olympics last year, going into the final round. Had a pretty commanding lead in that particular case. However, he struggled on Sunday. I don't know that what happened late in the round on Sunday at Quail Hollow is exactly the same thing. Because I brought this up earlier and you kind of scoffed at the notion.

I'm not even going to look at what he did over those last three holes, playing him in five over par. Hardest stretch in major championship golf, and he knew he had to do something. And when you start pressing on 16, 17, and 18 at Cuero Hollow, the chance is just as high as you're going to make a big number as it is

you're going to make a birdie. I don't even think that you need to look at what he did over those last three holes compared to what he did for the first three and a half rounds of this. And just to put himself tied for the lead, I think is a huge step forward for him. It shows that his game is back to somewhere close to where it was before he joined live golf. And he was a world-class player and everything that we know about him. And I think he's finally come around to the idea that,

This is where he wants to be. Like there was a large payday, everything that went into it, that's all well and good. But even in the devastating defeat on Sunday at Quail Hollow, you could still see the fire burn. Yeah, I mean, there's certainly a lot to digest as it relates to Jon Rahm. I think you and I have been very consistent on this podcast.

that John Rahm has not been at his best golf to his point long before he left for Live Golf. Did not win a golf tournament after the 2023 Masters. Then he went to Live. He only won, Rex, on that limited circuit

twice in his last three starts it wasn't like he was tearing it up on live in the early part of 2024 and that sort of translated the major championships as well has still not won in 2025 it's it's sort of predicated on his driver he says he keeps missing left he's trying to work that out with his swing with his longtime coach Dave Phillips certainly has made more progress and so

I don't think that's excuse making on John Rahm's part or, you know, revisionist history. Like he has not played his best of the past two years while Sky Scheffler conversely has ascended to even higher levels as it relates to John Rahm this week. I think this should have been a great golf course for him. And it was, and I think that should be very encouraging for him as it relates to the final round made three birdies in a four hole stretch around the turn to tie the lead.

You can look at what happened on 16, 17, 18, playing those three holes in five over par. I look at what happened on 12, 13, 14, and 15. Failing to birdie any of those holes is

from the positions with which he was in great spots, I mean, inside 20 feet on all four of those holes and failed to convert all of them. Had he converted one or two, the amount of pressure that that would then have put on Scottie Scheffler to really convert

Sort of must make birdies on 14 and 15 and then navigate the green mile with a little bit more caution. I think could have sort of changed the fortunes and the dynamics of the PGA Championship. Instead, Jon Rahm was unable to buy a putt at that stretch. And then, as you mentioned, has to get a little bit greedy. It was unable to pay it off. I think big picture, though.

Jon Rahm even talked after this final round collapse. He ended up dropping all the way to a tie for eighth. I think normal Jon Rahm a couple years ago probably would have been blowing a gasket somewhere.

The fact that he was so reflective in that moment, I think, is a further indication how badly he missed this arena. And I have no reason to believe that Jon Rahm is going to exit that arena anytime soon. This is a phenomenal golfer. Always has been. Always will be.

Yes. To your previous point, I think 14 through 18 was probably the pivotal move because you're right. Not the birdie 14 or 15. That puts the pressure on him to try to do something magical over that final stretch where you just probably more times than not are not going to be able to pull it off. Yes. Him speaking to the media, him having some insight, him being willing to take a deeper dive than he probably would be in that situation where.

In normal circumstances, he'd probably be more inclined to throw something at you than to answer your question. In this particular case, he took the time to do it. And I think that's a very good point. I'll fast forward a little bit and say,

Before this week, before this finish on Sunday, we probably wouldn't have spent a whole lot of time talking about John Ron going into the U.S. Open. I would say that he's probably going to land in certainly my top five, probably yours as well, just because of two things. The way he was able to execute some important shots and some difficult shots coming down the stretch on a really hard golf course at Quail Hollow. And two,

That's the kind of test that he loves. He loves these kinds of tests. When he was playing his best golf, when he won the Masters, when he won the US Open at Torrey Pines, this is what motivates him.

And I still think there's like valid concerns, whether the live golf schedule, how international it is in nature, the 54 hole format, some of the easier setups. I still think that that is, is valid to wonder if that's the best prep for John Rom big picture and to really get the best out of himself. But I think this was such a positive step with the direction of his game and

that's inarguable that he should be a factor in the major championships for the rest of the year. One guy Rex, who has, who has seemingly transitioned seamlessly from live golf tournaments to major championships over the past two years was Bryson to Shambo going to go down to Wikipedia officially as tying for second at this PGA championship. What did you take from big Bryson, even though he didn't really have a realistic shot to win the golf tournament on Sunday? I, I,

I think you proved our colleague Brando Chamblee's point. He made it earlier in the week, even before they started playing, that we talked a lot about Rory McIlroy's driving and how that's such a weapon and that's a master. He's the best driver in the professional game right now. Brando made a really good statistical, well-thought-out argument that, nope, it's Bryson DeChambeau. You walked with him, I believe, on Saturday, saw it firsthand. I've never seen you blown away like that. You were like a kid in a candy shop doing a

some fanboy stuff out there. It is impressive when you consider the ball speed that he consistently has.

A lot of players on the PGA tour can crank the ball speed up to 190, 191, 192. I never see any drive that Bryson's hit that's below 192. I mean, that seems to be the floor. Everything else is the ceiling above that. And the way he's driving the ball consistently, the way he's driving the ball on a rope, the way he's driving the ball with confidence, I think that makes him a weapon anywhere.

All of those things being said, the same thing that set him back at the Masters set him back at Quail Hollow in the PGA Championship. His iron play is poor at best. I think he's finished 45th in the field in strokes gain approach, which is shocking when you consider where he is playing from. And you can argue that the irons that he is using are the same irons that he put in play famously, not this year's Masters, but last year's Masters with the roll face, the

Exact same set, not same model, exact same set. So clearly something is not clicking there. It's not making the transition to what he's been able to do so prolifically with his driver to his wedges. And it continues to hurt him.

I mean, he's going to continue to factor in the, at least the first three major championships of the year, as long as he continues to drive the golf ball as he does averaging three over three 30, when he can get on these runs and just hit it on a, on a frozen rope. Like it honestly is a site to behold. However,

It's hard to see him taking that next leap from major contention to major championship winner without better execution, without better precision. It was mind-blowing, Rex, to hear what Bryce Nishambo had to say on Sunday at Quail Hollow, thinking ahead to the U.S. Open and any changes he might want to make. He's already talked about getting a new set of irons in the bag. On Sunday, he talked about getting a different golf ball

One that flies straighter than the one that he is currently playing. And I was thinking to myself, because he equated it to I'm hitting it. He rationalized it by saying I'm hitting it at 190 miles an hour. And at my speeds and at my apexes, the ball is doing some really weird things in the air. And I would like to have better control over it.

Bryson DeChambeau's driving is not the issue. He doesn't have 190 ball speed when he's using a gap wedge, a pitching wedge, or a sandwich, which he had over and over again into these greens at Quail Hollow. He wants to have a ball that does not curve as much from those shorter distances and at those heights. I'm not a physics major. I don't quite understand it. But as it typically goes with Bryson DeChambeau,

a lot of his confidence is derived from his equipment. And if he feels he's dialed in with his crank driver, if he feels that he's dialed in with his 3d printed irons, and if he feels potentially at the U S open, that he can be dialed in with a new golf ball that doesn't curve as much as

with these higher lofted clubs, I think he's going to be a force to be reckoned with. But until he figures that out, it's hard to see how he can match the precision of a Scottie Sheffield. I think that was on display over the weekend at Quail Hollow.

And I think there might be something to it. I think both of you, both you and I observed on Saturday night's podcast that he didn't execute coming down the stretch on Saturday. And that probably put him out of contention. He had to do something really special on Sunday to really have any chance whatsoever. And Scottie needed to come back a little bit. And a lot of what he talked about late, at least late in Saturday's rounds were misguided, misjudging the wind. Certainly 17 would be the example there. He felt like he had a perfect nine iron and it really never had a chance to

to go anywhere but the water and you were a little baffled and the same thing seemed to happen on 16 the same thing seemed to happen on 18 which leads you to believe that one of two things are happening here either one he is really struggling to figure out what the wind is doing and it was swirling i

at coral hollow both on saturday and sunday afternoons or maybe he does have a golf ball that's spinning too much and when you put it up in the wind like that it's going to do quote unquote weird stuff so he might be on to something i'm never going to second guess bryson when it comes to the science or the physics of it he knows more than me and he knows more than probably most people who do this what you can look at is just the results and when he puts himself in a position like he does off the tee time and time again the one thing that pushed dustin johnson

over the threshold to win major championships that he went to bush harman specifically to get better at he's always been a brilliant driver of the golf ball dustin was back in his prime one thing he couldn't really do very well is hit his wedges specifically have off-speed wedges he never really figured it out and he didn't make that breakthrough to start winning major championships and get to number one in the world until he came up with that off-speed shot and it took

if not years of years of on-track man and try to figure out exactly how do you hit the 89-yard shot because it's different than the 91-yard shot, and that's different than the 93-yard shot, and that's the precision you have to have. I don't think Bryson has that right now.

And again, I really do think he could win his third U.S. Open in a month's time at Oakmont. When we get to the golf course, when we see the golf course set up, if the fairways are so narrow that everyone's missing it, if the rough is so penal that only the brutish hitters can advance it onto those very difficult greens, Bryson's advantage is going to be maximized.

At that sort of golf course, it remains to be seen what it actually looks like. I can't obviously wait to get up to Oakmont for the U S open, but Bryson is Shambo regardless really of how his irons are. He's still going to be in the mix just because his driving at this point is the best of his career. And that makes him one of the best of all time.

of all time. All right. Plenty more coming up on this podcast. You guys know that we'll be back on Wednesday because we don't just do this podcast Rex for linear television on Monday. We also do it on Wednesday. We'll do a week, excuse me, a preview edition. We Charles Schwab challenge where you will be also available on the golf channel, YouTube page. More of this podcast coming back after this short break.

All right, Rex, you know what time it is. It's time for the love it or lab it segment. If you are new here, you either love an idea or lab it, which means that you hate on it. Let's start with Quell Hollow, the venue for the PGA Championship. Do you love it or lab the idea that Quell Hollow should host another major championship?

With apologies to our colleague, to our good friend, Johnson Wagner, and all our other friends at Quail Hollow, I laughed at this. And I only came to this conclusion after this week because, and we can get into this a little bit deeper, that the PGA Championship continues to look for some sort of identity.

Then when it comes to the Masters, we all know the tradition. We all know the history of Augusta National. You can walk through every single hole and you can remember it. Go to the U.S. Open, toughest test in golf. We all know what that's going to look like. Go to the Open Championship, links golf conditions. It has everything. If I just threw at you real quick, what's the identity of the PGA Championship? You're going to struggle. You're going to hem. You're going to haul. You're going to mumble. You're not going to come up with a very good answer. Stern test.

Sure. Best field in golf. I mean, I think that's what they lean into. That's all well and good. And I understand where they're coming from, but it hits home this week. And maybe it's only because we see Quail Hollow every year as a normal, regular PGA Tour event, as the truest championship. It's a signature event. It's a good event. They've had good winners. They've had good finishes. But we see it every single year.

Going back to the President's Cup in 2022 that was here, I enjoyed that so much more. And it's because I knew the golf course, but now it was in such a different setting as a team event. And they set it up different. It was a lot of risk-reward. They had the routing was different. I enjoyed that. When we show up here for a PGA Championship, especially played in May, this really felt – and again, apologies to our friends at the PGA of America. Apologies to our friends at Coil Hollow. It felt like we were playing the truest championship because –

The field, it probably would have been won by Scottie Scheffler if it was a signature event, just like it was won by Scottie Scheffler. I think the setup doesn't allow for any separation between what we see normally in May at the PGA Tour event versus what we want to see at the PGA Championship. And what they've created here with respect to Johnny Harris, and this is his kingdom, what they've created here is just a big, long slog. And complicated by the idea that we had a bunch of rain earlier in the week, it

It's just not a major championship venue unless you can do something different with the golf course than what we normally see. And they did not do that. I don't disagree with anything that you just said. I also love it. I think it suffers from the familiarity. I think it suffers from the fact that we see it each and every year on the PGA tour and what Kerry Hagan, his staff did there.

or did not do to differentiate this golf course as a major venue versus quail hollow as a PJ tour signature event, I thought was really disappointing. You sat next to me the entire week in the media center. How many times did I say shaved bank, shaved bank,

The ball was saved repeatedly by the lack of shaved banks at Quell Hollow. Errant shots were not punished as harshly and as severely as they should have. This is a major championship. This is supposed to weed out the best players

and the brightest versus those who are just sort of getting by with smoke and mirrors and faking it. I did not think for the most part that Quail Hollow did a good job of sort of sussing that out. Yes, it had a great winner. Yes, Roy McIlroy, one of the best players of his generation has won this golf tournament four times. To me, that doesn't matter. That's not necessarily a great characteristic or excuse me, that's not a great identifier of a great golf course.

Kerry Hagan, his staff, I think were handcuffed a little bit by what they could do with the weather, but the lack of shave banks, the lack of proper penal misses, to me, it does not scream major championship venue. All right, let's move on to the aforementioned Roy McIlroy. A very interesting week.

finished us at the top 45, but he also, Rex, did not talk to the media. He also reportedly had a non-conforming driver, had to switch driver heads before the start of the first round of the PGA Championship. Are you loving or laughing, Rory, going all week without talking to us lowly scribes?

Lab it. 100% lab it. We'll always lab that. And I think you and I, please tune in on Wednesday. We're going to do a roundtable on golf today. And we'll join us and we'll probably take a little bit of a deeper dive on this one because it is something that needs to be addressed. And I'll go back to Colin Morikawa. And we remember what happened at the Arnold Palmer Invitational where he stumbled coming down the stretch, ended up losing.

I would say losing at Bay Hill and declined to talk to the media. Again, it happens from time to time. This is not out of the ordinary. What happened was the next week at the Players' Championship, he was asked about not talking to the media, and he probably didn't answer the question the way he should have, is the best way of saying it. Because I don't know you anything is a little competitive and not the best way to frame the narrative. I have gone back to that, though, and said he's right. He doesn't.

he doesn't owe the media anything however he owes the fans and he certainly owes the sponsor something and i would argue that roy mcelroy owes the pg of america something and this he has won their championship he has won this tournament on this golf course numerous times he was the headliner of the field for all of those reasons he should have stopped now there were a lot of different reasons why he didn't stop that goes to the driver that failed i also lab that i will

point everyone to what Scotty Scheffler said about it. Scotty Scheffler's driver also was deemed nonconforming, and his take on it was, it happens. If it doesn't happen to a tour player's driver eventually, that tour player has the wrong driver in his bag, and he should probably be mad at his equipment manufacturer because you want them as close to the limit as you could possibly get without going over, obviously, but when you hit 1,000 balls over and over again at the speed that they hit it, it's always going to go.

it's always going to go over the line it's always going to be dean non-conforming this happens on the pga tour on a weekly basis testing drivers fail guys have to replace those drivers it just happens what happened in this instance though as i pointed out rory's driver failed and then he declined to talk about it so instead of getting out in front of it and explaining what happened and just pointing out this happens a lot i put a new driver in play it was fine now the void is filled with a lot of people on social media

that have a lot of opinions, and that's only going to go in a bad direction. Scotty and also Xander Schauffele probably brought up the solution to this. They only test about a third of the field, which was about 50 guys this week at the PGA Championship. If you're going to do it, and I tend to agree with this, test everybody's drivers. I know logistically that makes it a little bit hard, but just go out and test all 156. And if it's not conforming, then you have to put one in the bag that is. All of these things, lav it.

Yeah, testing a third of the field does not make any sense. But again, with Rory McIlroy not talking to the media for the entire week, I don't think it behooves anyone. It hurts Rory. It hurts us as trying to be the liaison between the players and the fans. And I think the fans are sort of left in the dark as well. So we're just left to speculate. Did Rory not want to talk to the media because he was, you know,

ticked off about the driver issue. He did not want to talk to the media because he was ticked off about his play. Again, finished tight and tied for 47th at the PGA Championship in his first major championship start since completing the career Grand Slam. Was he trying to prove a point?

That now that he is a legend of the game, that his status is secured, that he basically doesn't need the media anymore, and that he's only going to talk to the media when he wants to. All of these are open questions that we do not have any answers to because Roy McIlroy did not talk. Again, I think it's a detriment to all involved if this situation presents itself. I will also say, though, Rex, and obviously I am labbing this, but I would say

If this is sort of a leverage play to create rules and regulations as it relates to the players and major championships or the PGA tour, I think there is potentially something there where right now players do not have any responsibility, no obligation contractually or otherwise to speak to the media. It's basically up to their own discretion, whether they want to do that, whether they want to do so. And that puts them sort of,

out of line with how every other major athlete is treated in their respective sport. And so if, if this becomes in 2025, a tipping point with Colin or then with Rory to sort of seeing some meaningful change on that front, I'll, I'll, I'll love it. And I think that will be a good direction for all involved, but we're not quite there yet. And so that way I'm laughing at it.

it. All right. Final topic for love or lab. This week is Brooks Koepka, another no show in a major championship. First time he has missed a cut at the PGA. Are you loving or laughing the idea of Brooks Koepka remaining a major threat at this stage in his career?

I think you have to laugh it because he is what his body of work says he is. And right now he is not a contender and major championships since joining live golf. He has two top 10 finishes. That's the first and a second. That would have been at the PGA championship and at the masters right when he first joined. So he was still very competitive. He was still part of the ecosystem more or less. And since then he has done nothing but struggle this week being the primary example of that. It went beyond struggling. He played just absolutely awful.

golf. It's not that he just missed the cut. He finished towards the bottom of the field. He didn't do anything particularly well. If you look at his statistics off the tee, he was towards the bottom of the field, approach bottom of the field, short game, putting all of it towards the bottom of the field. He's not doing anything well right now. And I think it's a testament to how poorly he's playing that social media went abuzz on Friday afternoon with a, uh,

stolen, a silent picture, however you want to put it, of him buying a 12-pack. Actually, it was a 24-pack, wasn't it? Of

of beer here somewhere in Charlotte. That is the way you're going to, I think that's the way every golfer, right? Is going to sort of all the pain of a bad round of golf. One of us, one of us just, just, just drinking a 12 or of ice cold Miller lights. You absolutely love to see it like this. Yeah, obviously I think I'm with you. This might be the first time in 11, 11 history. We've labbed all three ideas back to back miscuts in the majors for the first time in his career. First miscut.

at the PGA championship for the first time in his career at this point, like the Ryder cup seems like a pipe dream. I know he was, he was invited to the U S Ryder cup dinner a couple of weeks ago in Philadelphia as a member of the 2023 Ryder cup. And he was thought, you know, maybe his veteran presence would be needed for the Americans to,

I'm not buying it at this point. He's just not playing well enough. He's chirping back at fans, telling them to come down from the hospitality tent. A guy chirped at him saying, this is what happens when you take all the guaranteed money. He threatened him to come down potentially to, to, to knock his lights out. Like Brooks does not seem to be in a good spot other than him drinking the ice cold middle lights that you and I Rex both agree with that.

When we come back from this short break, a couple of listener questions, and we're putting a bow on PGA Championship week. All right, Rex, let's end the show with this great question from JD5447, who said, of the two remaining majors, the US Open and the Open Championship, which of those will be most difficult for Sky to win to complete the Grand Slam?

I think it's the most difficult major for anyone to win just because of the vagaries of the Open Championship where Lynx Goff, you can get a bad bounce, you can hit a perfect drive and end up in a bunker in an impossible spot or you can end up on the wrong side of the draw and just get some awful weather. And that's out of his hands completely. What

What he did at Quail Hollow has proven that he is at the level now where if he executes, use his word that he used about a bazillion times last week, that there's no one that can beat him as long as he can go out and do what he's comfortable doing, doing what he's best at. It's the stuff he can't control. I think that will decide that at the U.S. Open, you don't get it nearly as much at the Open Championship. That's an issue.

If you're Scott Schaeffler, you've got to feel pretty good that he's given himself chances to win those two major championships already. Like I think back to Brookline, the 2022 U.S. Open. Last year on the weekend, he was very much in the mix at Troon before the difficult weather on Saturday knocked him a little bit out of contention. Also was dealing with like that weird little back issue that he was grabbing in the final round as well. I'm with you. I always thought that that was going to be the most difficult one for an American to win.

And yeah, just in recent years alone, we've seen Brian Harmon, Zander Shoffley, Kyle Morikawa all win it. Sky Shuffler has such a complete game. I don't think it will be a huge hindrance. Could take him a couple of years, but I still think this is something we're talking about. Sky Shuffler, a career Grand Slam winner by the age of 35. All right, Rex, real quick. How will you remember the Quail Hollow PGA?

Scotty's emotion on the 18th green, whatever you want to call it, relief, happiness, just, just letting it all go. We've seen it a couple of times now from Scotty. He's a bit stoic on the golf course, but certainly when he won the gold medal, the emotion that we saw from him there, it was very, very similar. I think it was coming maybe from a little bit different place, but I do enjoy that.

I will remember most, most particularly the five hole stretch on Saturday, the perfect golf that was played as well as the five or six holes of perfect golf on Sunday to win this major championship. All right. That is going to do it for this edition of the golf show podcast with Rex and lab. And you guys know the drill NBC sports.com slash golf for all latest news, notes, and updates. Rex and I will be back on Wednesday for another edition of the pod. Thanks for listening. Thanks for the support.

Talk to you guys on Wednesday afternoon.

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