How to make the PGA Tour's only team event better
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Hello and welcome into this edition of the Golf Show Podcast with Rex and Lav. I certainly hope that you had a multi-view on your TV on Sunday. Chevron Championship, absolutely electric. It's grandstanding. There's slow play. There's gutsy shots. Inexplicable misses. Five-way playoffs. Great stuff. We're going to get into that with Amy Rogers in just a little bit. Rex, you've been at the Zurich Classic once it finally came on TV. Once you got through the weather delay that has left you, in your own words, quite gamey,

It was gripping theater with a fun format. Liv had another ball of leaderboard with Joaquin Neiman capturing his third title of the season. That is the most New Orleans hotel I have ever seen. What's the story here?

Yeah, it's a chandelier that's actually painted on the wall. It's been a little creepy all week long, but it's very nice. I think I showed you earlier. I walked into this hotel on Monday and I had to FaceTime my wife and I never FaceTime my wife. And I had to point it out the window. And is that where we got married? And it's literally right there. It's next door to us. So I was married here in the French Quarter. We went over to the Mont Leon. So it brings back good memories. I like being here. I'm on a bit of a tough run, if I'm going to be honest with you. Yeah.

Because, as we mentioned, the Masters can be a bit of an eating, let's call it a dark hole. It's just a lot of bread. It's a lot of food that's probably good. So many sandwiches, a lot of hot dogs, a lot of glizzies. So many calories. And then Hilton Head wasn't much better last week because the food is very good there. And then, obviously, we're going to get into everywhere I ate this week. I spent the whole week body shaming myself. I'm going to be honest with you.

It's okay. You look fine, at least for the podcast. This is why we're only going chest up for this sort of record. Let's get into the final round, Rex, of Azura Classic. Andrew Novak, Ben Griffin, first-time winners on the PGA Tour. He was a little bit nervy with Novak's tee shot on 17, but able to make birdie and play the last with a cushion. What stood out to you on the final day at TPC Louisiana?

You brought up the weather delays. I think that was interesting. Josh, not Sunday, but also Saturday. I think a lot of players had a hard time sort of recovering and maybe not so much on Saturday because four balls a little bit different. You can free it kind of frees you up. It allows you to be a little bit more aggressive. But certainly the horn went off right about the leaders were making the turn or just before the turn.

And you could tell when they came back out, they just had nothing. And it wasn't just Novak and Griffin. No one really did. I talked to Rory McIlroy and Shane Lowry. I talked to Kappen and Jake Knapp. I talked to so many players who said it was so hard to get back into a rhythm. And that's part of professional golf. I mean, we never really make a big deal about that. It's sort of what you have to deal with. But you very rarely or almost never have to do it when you're playing alternate shot. It's alternate shot comes with such intensity.

it's so difficult. I was talking with one player about it earlier this week and he was asking me, like he turned it back on me and he says, how many times do you play this format? As if saying like, you could sit and judge me, but how many times do you do this?

And you and I used to – we used to have a company tournament, and there was a version of alternate shot, and we hated it. I mean, I think you're probably going to agree with me on that one. It's so difficult. It's so demanding. You're putting so much pressure on yourself and your partner. But I love it as a format, and I will give officials credit here in New Orleans because –

A few years ago, they sort of flipped it. It used to be they would play four ball on Sunday, and they decided that, nope, we're going to make it more difficult. And I think we've seen that the last few years, even last year when Rory and Shane won. Like you could tell it was nervy coming down the stretch. They weren't comfortable. They're putting each other in very, very difficult positions. I absolutely love this finish. And then you look, I would argue, and I did earlier today on the pregame show that I

If you're going to be a first-time PGA Tour winner, there is no better place, and maybe easier place is the way I would put this, to do it than here, especially if you're Ben Griffin and Andrew Novak who are trying to win for the first time on the PGA Tour, and you essentially have your best friend standing next to you. And it doesn't make it easier. It's still going to come with its own unique challenges, but

At least, you know, he's got my back. I'm not out here all alone. And that's what it probably feels like when you're trying to win for the first time by yourself. So I certainly saw this coming, even when they started to struggle about the turn. I felt like those were the two guys to beat.

So that's really interesting. First of all, to your first point, I completely agree. And it's sort of been a philosophical change from the PG tour. They used to think, oh, birdies equals excitement. That's fan interested. That's what fans actually want to see. No, they actually want to see these players get challenged. They want to see nervous shots. They want to see shots.

And that's exactly what you have when you have the alternate shot foursomes format on Sunday. It's interesting that you bring that up about the dynamic of, is it easier going for your first win in this sort of team format? And on one respect, yeah, you're hitting half of the shots. And so, you know, you're, there's half the responsibility there. On the other hand,

Like the outcome is basically out of your own hands and you're relying on someone else. And I do like the dynamic that we had with the eventual champions of the Zurich Classic. Like it feels fitting that a guy like Ben Griffin, who barely missed out on the top 50 cutoff of the world ranking to get into the Masters. He was 51st.

Andrew Novak has three top three finishes prior to this. He just lost in a playoff the previous week to Justin Thomas at the RPC heritage. So he's clearly been trending in the right direction, but I still think like the nerves, the anticipation, the excitement, not wanting to let down your partner and that sort of format. I still think it actually might even ratchet up the amount of nervousness and anxiety that you would have trying to close out a golf tournament, particularly when it's your first one on the PGA tour.

And I didn't have a chance to do this on the pregame, but we go back to Sunday. You mentioned Andrew Novak losing in the playoff to JT and JT, actually Justin Thomas. He actually told a really interesting story about this was, that was the second time that he had played with Andrew Novak. The first time was back in 2023 at the travelers championship when he joined Andrew,

and Ben Griffin. And during a practice round at TPC river Highlands and the way JT described it is, and he shot 59 that day, made it very, very sort of just point blank. Like, yes, that guy is the guy I was facing here on Sunday. I hate to ruin a good story. And I wanted to do this in the pregame, but I did not. I actually had to ask Andrew about it. And he goes, I did not shoot 59 that day. I shot 61 that day. And I beat Ben and I, and,

And I beat Ben who shot 62 and it came down to the final hole and they were grinding it out the entire time. And I thought that was a perfect metaphor for why they made such good partners. And I think we've seen this before in certain partnerships. They don't particularly care for playing with each other. Don't get me wrong. They're friends,

What they really want to do is play against each other. And even this week, when they're on the same team, you're wearing the same shirt. Metaphorically, you're trying to accomplish the same goal together. All they ever want to do is beat each other. And along those lines, they had a competition this week of who could chip in the most times, by the way, no surprise. Andrew Novak did it. He had three chip ins and Ben Griffin only had one.

So you get an idea of what makes these guys tick because they're so competitive. They spend so much time together in Sea Island. And I think it was a really good pairing coming into this week. And it probably, for the folks that pay attention to this, and you and I have a couple of friends, they probably should have been the betting favorites. You and I are going to get into Rory and Shane coming into this week. That's a little bit of a different dynamic. But it was fun to watch them. And as I was kind of working on my thoughts as I was driving back from the golf course today,

I would argue that Andrew Novak is clearly one of the tour's rising stars. What he has done this year, I think the potential that he has shown getting this first victory, clearly there's next steps in it. I don't know that Ben's that far behind. I think he's a very consistent player. And for both of them, we talked about this with Rory. I think this could be freeing.

I certainly think that was the next step for both of them. I'm glad to see them finally check that box. I mean, Andrew Novak, he has to be considered one of the leading contenders to make the U.S. Ryder Cup team. Just based on how he's played in 2025, obviously he's going to need to do something in the major championships. But if you just zoomed out and look at his record in 2025,

It stands up pretty well against the Scottie Schefflers, Kyle Morikawa, Xander Shoffles, Maverick McNeely, Sy Hithagala, Max Homa, like players of that ilk. You have to find 12 players somehow. You always sort of see these wild cards who round out the end of the roster. It seems like Andrew Novak had certainly sort of positioned himself by September for that. You brought up sort of the, I think it's a really healthy dynamic of these players sort of out-dueling, trying to out-duel each other. I always think back to the Jordan Spieth-Patrick Reid pairing

in the Ryder Cup and the President's Cup. Those are two alpha males who were sort of, they were competing for like fans' attention. Like they're show-offs by nature and they wanted to be the one who would get the credit for their eventual four balls or foursomes victory. Like that's just how that dynamic worked, them just trying to one-up each other and they were very successful in doing so. I sort of see some shades of that with Andrew Novak and Ben Griffin as well. You mentioned Rex, Roy McIlroy,

And Shane Lauer, the defending champions of the Zurich Classic, shot 72 on the final day, sort of petered out, ended up tying for 12th. What did you make of Rory's week, his first competition, since, of course, completing the career grand slam at the Masters? I had the opportunity to do the interview with him that ran on Golf Central later on tonight. And it was interesting to watch him get through this week. And I felt like after he finished on Sunday, he was willing to sort of let everything go. Because coming into the week, I don't think he wanted –

to take that victory lap, so to speak, after what he accomplished at the Masters. I think he wanted to lock in. And to be clear, and I think we talked about this on the Wednesday podcast,

Shane told him, look, man, if you don't want to play this year, I totally get it. This is a career, once-in-a-lifetime accomplishment. If you want to go celebrate, he totally understood. And it gives you an idea of how close he is with Shane. It gives you an idea of how much they enjoyed winning this event last year. And so he tried as best as he possibly could to lock in. Keep in mind, he flew home to London and then Northern Ireland following the Masters. He woke up Monday morning with a cold and could barely get out of bed. He struggled with that all week long. So it was kind of an avalanche.

of things that sort of held them back. They never clearly had their best game, but I will say that when they finished up today, both Shane and Rory, that there was a lightness to them. I think they, they felt an obligation to get through this week, to do the right thing for each other and to do the right thing for the tournament. But I did ask Rory, uh,

After the whirlwind few weeks that you've had, how do you reset? And we have batted this back and forth since the Masters as well. I don't think there's any doubt in my mind that he's going to be locked in for the PGA Championship at Quail Hollow. The way he explained it to me tonight was I have essentially two weeks of practice. I'm going to go home for a week and then I'm going to play the truest.

The idea being that I'm going to use the truest to get ready for the PGA Championship because I want to win that one. So I loved every bit of what he was able to do this week and how much it meant for him to come back and play this tournament. I mean, he clearly needs a break. He looks he looks and sounds absolutely gassed. The truest, of course, is that Philly Cricket Club, probably not the best sort of preparation for Quill Hollow or Roy McIlroy has won.

four times in his career, but I think there's just so much. He's never played there, by the way. I asked him. He's never played Philly cricket. I was curious about that. I think probably a lot of players in the truest field have never played. It's going to be great on TV. I can't wait to watch that one. But I think there's just so much intrigue in general about what Roy is going to do the rest of the year. I think we talked about this last week on the podcast, sort of the parallels to Tiger Woods in 01 after completing the career Grand Slam

And in 01, excuse me, the Tiger Slam in 01, that was probably the most consequential pressure packed round that you could possibly face in the modern era. Try to do something that's probably never going to happen again in your career, an opportunity to capture your fourth consecutive major championship. Roy was right there, second in line, thinking potentially this could be his one and only shot ever.

to win the masters and thus become the sixth player to complete the career grand slam do you sort of coast after that you know are you satiated is is the hunger somewhat reduced or do you capitalize on what has been the worst best form of roy mcroy's career to this point he's never won more than four events on a pga tour schedule he already has three wins and we haven't even gotten to the month of may yet and so i think i think just generally speaking

whatever Roy McIlroy is going to do for the remainder of 2025 is by far the biggest question of the PGA Tour season. I'm not quite sure what you're doing there. He has four wins. I mean, I'm going to count the career grand slam as a win. I'm just going to go out on a limb and say that. Sure. Okay. It doesn't. Come on. Nope. That's not technically how that works. You're not going to play along? All right. No. I gave it a shot. Never mind.

I thought you were trying to correct me. Then I started spiraling. I thought we were going to have to pause the record. No, no, no. You were not. I was trying to make it funny because I feel like what he was able to accomplish at the Masters was times two.

times 10. Like we all know the burden, the word that he used that kind of got off his back winning that it was just not, it was more than the sum of his parts. I think it's the point I was trying to make, but to what you were saying before, you're right. He can go two different directions. We, we address this.

He could coast the rest of the year and enjoy what is a career accomplishment, or he can double down. I don't think there's any doubt, at least not in my mind, that he's not going to do that. He's going to double down. He's going to go into Quail Hollow trying to play the best golf he possibly can. I did think it was funny. I asked him on Thursday about what was it like on the first tee being introduced as the Masters champion. That's got to be a pretty good feeling. And he immediately went to the idea that I was actually happier that they included the player championship.

And now, so this goes to, and I'm going to stumble over this. So I apologize in advance, but it goes to your idea for a super single season slam. No, I nailed it. I got that right. Single season, super slam. All right. Which I certainly nailed the fifth time around. Like Shane, Shane Lowry made the point Rex, like,

after Roy won the Masters, it wouldn't have surprised him. He'd mentioned previously he'd gone to his wife and be like, hey, if he wins a career Grand Slam, he can just retire at that point. He made sort of a similar reference to that in the pre-tournament press conference at the Zurich Classic, like, oh, he can ease up the accelerator for the rest of 2025.

Roy's Roy's built different, man. Like he's, he's ever done that in his entire career. You'd love to see him sort of put up Scotty type numbers that he did in 2024. See exactly how many majors he can have this year. You could not pick a better rotation of golf courses as it relates to the majors with Roy. You just hope that he has the energy level and the focus to do so. You've covered this Rex, the Zurich classic of New Orleans the last couple of years. What do you like about it? What do you think still needs work?

Well, the food, I love the food. We're going to get into it later. Like I said, I'm body shaming myself a little bit. The location is fantastic. The location where you are in New Orleans, in the French Quarter, that's where I am right now. The location of the golf course, not so much. It's on the other side of the river for folks that don't really know the geography. It's in a place called Avondale, which really isn't

anywhere close to the French Quarter or where everyone really wants to be. This week, it's Jazz Fest, so that's probably best. But there's other options. When Katrina came through and did all the damage and did what it did to the city, they rebuilt City Park. And part of that rebuild was to take essentially the land for two of the golf courses that were there and to turn it into one better golf course.

And I was told all along the idea was they're going to build one better golf course because that's where they want to have the Zurich Classic. They need to have it closer to this. To give you an idea, I'm in the French Quarter right now. City Park's only about a 10-minute drive away. It would be centrally located. It would be perfect. There's no reason to stay at TPC Louisiana.

It's not a great golf course by any stretch of the imagination. No one is going to flock there just to play that golf course. So the only reason to stay out there is because it's a TBC. That certainly they could fix. And I did want to come circle back around to the idea that there was some hand-wringing last week.

at the RBC Heritage, that Rory wasn't there. And I think that probably has more to do, much less to do with him winning the Masters career Grand Slam than it is. I just, I don't think he likes Harbortown. And so he wasn't in the field as a Friday of the Masters anyway. So it's not like he got fired after the Masters. He was going to skip it.

He was going to skip it anyway. My argument to that was whatever the incremental loss was to Hilton Head, and I would argue with JT winning and that finish and everything else went into it, it was not significant. I don't think it ever ate into the numbers in a way that would be significant. Whatever that loss was, the gain that having him here was,

in New Orleans to defend his title is so much better. And I think that's an indication of how the tour probably needs to do a better job of giving tournaments like the Zurich Classic a break. It's a really tough part of the schedule. Let's be honest. After Rory and Shane, the field was not that great. I think Colin Morikawa was the only top 20 player in the world that was here. Maybe Sahith Tagala would be the only one. And if we're being honest, the reason they're here is they're Zurich Ambassadors.

So the tour and tournament officials could go a long way to making this event better. All that being said, I love this one-off event. I love the idea that you're bringing teams together to do this. I don't want to see it week in and week out. No one wants to see 50 weeks of this. But one week, I think you're allowing players to enjoy themselves in a way that they don't do for the other, I don't know, 45 events on the PGA Tour schedule. I think it's a good idea.

Yeah, a couple of things on this, like TPC Louisiana is dreadful. You mentioned City Park and it's actually going to be on the live schedule in a couple of years time. I just signed a multi-year contract with live golf. I'm not sure that that would stand up to sort of the rigors of a major sort of test for the best players in the world, either in the PGA Tour or live golf. And TPC Louisiana does?

No, but that's why I think they had to change the format because this thing was, especially with the weather conditions that you can tell how gamey you are. Like it's going to be hot. It's going to be humid. Players are going to go low and they're going to make a lot of birdies. So I think golf course wise, it doesn't work. I think you could probably pick this up and put it anywhere else. And so I would sort of, you know, I love new Orleans. It's my favorite place in the country to spend three days and two nights, but I'm not sure as a, as a golf venue that it really works as it relates to the actual tournament in

in the format and how it's played. I like that. It's different. I like that. It breaks up the monotony of the PGA tour season. I like that. There's actually a team component, unlike live golf, which is essentially just NCAA college golf, where you have in college golf, it's play five count for and live golf. It's it's, it's shoot four scores, add them up. And that's exactly who is going to be the eventual team champion. I think Rex, uh,

This tournament could actually benefit from going all foursomes for all four of rounds. Best ball is boring TV if it's not match play, if it's not two-on-two match play. It just bogs down the pace. Everyone is going to go low. If you shoot 68, you're getting bypassed, but if you shoot 62, you're just sort of treading water. Foursomes is just so much more fun. There's so much more strategy with the alternate shot. There's just a better rhythm. It's an

interesting rhythm of not you know putting on three or four holes and all of a sudden you've got to make a pressure a five footer to sort of keep the momentum of the round as well so i love all the interesting dynamics but i think best ball is actually a detriment to the format i just think it makes for bad tv uh i mean there was a 58 shot this week so i don't know that i agree with you 100 but it's 14 under what is that really different than 11 under i mean everyone's going low

But I argue this is a good mix. I like the idea that two days you're going to have to go out and you're going to have to make a lot of birdies and you're going to have to go low. And then the other two days, you're going to have to figure out how to do something you're wildly uncomfortable with. I am with you. We just had a long conversation about how much better alternate shot is on a Sunday, even with the world's best players. It takes them out of their routine. They're uncomfortable. They don't know how to do only hitting half the shots. You feel bad. You hear every player say the same thing. Like I,

I just don't want to apologize to my teammate. And I heard so many guys apologizing to teammates this week. I love that dynamic to it. I don't know that doing it for four rounds would help. I do think going to city park, because again, as you pointed out that the golf course doesn't matter, this is kind of like it used to be with the match play play that you could go and play that pretty much any way you wanted. And that's why it ended up at Austin. And that's why it ended up in some venues that probably weren't the best.

I think the one thing that they could do better, though, is just give it a better spot on the schedule. You're just right in between the Masters. Where should it go? Because Jay Monahan, the PGA Tour commissioner, said this week in New Orleans, it is the, quote, perfect spot on the calendar for the PGA Tour. Where else would you put it?

I'm going to agree to disagree, and this goes back to the experiment that we always want to respectfully agree to disagree with the commissioner. I'm going to go back to the experiment that we always want to do. And if I just did the whiteboard behind me instead of that painted chandelier, which is so creepy, if I did the whiteboard behind me and you and I just went through with a blank piece of paper and started writing down exactly where they could be, I like New Orleans in the spring. I'd probably like to do it a little bit earlier in the spring. As I said, I'm not –

Feeling great right now, as I have a very good friend who likes to tell me I smell like outside right now, which is not great. But I think and look, you can make this argument probably for a lot of tournaments. But this one, I think particularly because you had the Masters, you have a signature event, you have this. And the next thing you know, you have a signature event and another major championship. There is no room to hide. And I think after Rory, after Shane, after a handful of other players, the field was indicative of that.

Yeah, like you can't have a team event or a match play event like it used to be right before the Masters because that's not the best preparation for the year's first major. You can't have it, especially if it's going to be in New Orleans in January or February because the weather is going to be too dodgy. You can't have it in the summertime. A, it's going to be just brutally hot and disgusting, but you also have players competing for their livelihoods and trying to maintain status on the PGA Tour, and all of a sudden you have reduced FedExCup point allotments. That's not going to work as well. The solution, Rex,

The obvious answer is to move the team event, the Zurich Classic of New Orleans, to the week after the Masters. Have it the week after the Masters. If you don't want to play the Zurich Classic, if you're going to be in the signature event, that's totally fine. Two weeks after the Masters should then be the RBC Heritage. So you would go Masters, Zurich,

RBC Heritage, Nelson, and then you go for the Truist Championship leading in to the PGA Championship. It is a great unwind. You get to be with your friend. You get to be in a great city. You get to enjoy great food. It's very low stress after having the stressful weekend

sort of major championship experience than the RBC heritage by contrast is then elevated in stature because it's not immediately overshadowed by a major championship. That's the solution. Bang, nailed it, crushed it.

I mean, you know what I'm going to go back to here. You're making this pitch as the person that also made the pitch not to play the week before or after a major. So one of those things you don't actually believe in. Given the economic realities of the situation, that may have been some pie-in-the-sky stuff. If you were designing a PGA Tour schedule from scratch, it would not look like it currently does. But given this current environment and wanting to have a tournament on the schedule, I think that is the best solution is to have the Masters, the Zurich, and the RBC Heritage. I think absolutely.

All three of those events would benefit from that sort of orientation on the schedule. I don't disagree with you. It's actually not a crazy idea. You could flip it that easy. I don't know how much that actually helps the field, but it wouldn't hurt the field.

All right. Next week on the PGA tour is the CJ cup by Ren Nelson world. Number one, Scotty Scheffler is in the field looking for his first win of 2025 coverage begins Thursday on golf channel. We'll have LPGA insider, Amy Rogers on the other side of this short break. We are pleased to be joined now by our LPGA reporter, Amy Rogers, who was in Houston for the Chevron championship. And Amy, that fun around was electric. What was the biggest takeaway for you?

It was shocking. I mean, it was such a curveball. I was about to go out there and try and get an interview with Aria Jutanagar and thinking she was going to be waiting to see what was going to happen, if she was going to possibly end up in a playoff. And suddenly you couldn't believe what you just saw. I

we weren't sure if she had actually hit the ball because it, it, it bear, it moves. So like such a small amount that I think there was a lot of question whether she had actually hit the shot or not behind, uh, the 72nd hole there and regulation. And then we ended up figuring out that she had in fact, uh,

hit the shot and then obviously ended up going on to to make bogey and fall out of the lead. It was just the entire turn of events just changed as soon as area Jatana garden got to that 18th hole after having the lead for the large part of the day. So that was a huge curveball. I want to talk a little bit more about area. So she has the one shot lead. She's

She's behind 18 green and great position. All she needs to do is chip it on and to putt essentially to, to post it under is probably going to be good enough to the Chevron championship and said, she hits the flub. She's had a couple of moments like this in her career. Amy works. She's just sort of made inexplicable mistakes at the wrong time. How do you explain this enigma of a player who has won major championships, but she's also had some big head scratchers when it comes to major championship collapses.

Yeah, we've seen the highest of highs and the lowest of lows in Aria Jatanigarn's career. I was there at Shoal Creek when she had, I think, a seven-stroke lead at the turn that ended up evaporating, and she ended up in a playoff there. I figured by this point in her career, given that she has a dozen wins, two major titles, that...

We wouldn't have seen that from her, I think, down this closing stretch. But that said, we are seven years removed from her last major victory. And I wanted so badly to ask her, you know, did she feel all those same sort of major vibes again as she was, you know, making her way through the round today? Because she seemed so calm. She was walking slowly. Everything seemed very deliberate. We didn't see any major gas from her.

throughout the day. So it seemed like she had really grown and matured as a player and learned from those major experiences that she had had. And I think that's what made it so shocking to see what we did on the 72nd hole because she did play so steady for so much of the round. But I think for

for area, she has struggled in recent years. As I mentioned, it's been nearly a decade since she had that last major victory. And I think part of this for her is just getting back into this sort of space again. You know, I think sometimes she just has these, these mental lapses of focus and we've seen when she's able to focus and, and really has all aspects of her game working. You know, she was number one in the world, you know,

really unbeatable during that time. So I think maybe for her, she's kind of found this form again, this new refreshed mindset. It's just going to be getting her back into that place and contention and getting comfortable being in that position again.

All right, Amy, I'm going to apologize for parachuting in from 30,000 feet. I'm going to do my Eamon Lynch impersonation here. So please bear with me. And only because our colleague, our friend, Bethann Nichols, did a really interesting story, I thought, on golfweek.com, kind of about where the Chevron Championship is in the history of this event. It's been in Houston for a few years now. Her take was it's probably not in the best date as far as the calendar goes. How do you fix it? Well, first off, is there something wrong? And if so, how do you fix it?

Yeah, Bethann and I spoke a little bit about this during the week, and then obviously I saw her piece there this morning. And you would think it's been three years now. You know, you give it a little bit of time, a little bit of a grace period after being in Mission Hills for so long to let them kind of find their footing here in Houston and at the club at Carlton Woods. And, yeah.

I think what we've seen is that they're just not getting the sort of traction that was expected. And Chevron has made a huge investment in this tournament. So I think you would expect them to see a larger turnout. There were several people that I spoke to that watched it on television that were surprised.

surprised at how few fans that they were seeing out there. And I think you could, you could probably count the number of players or a number of fans that were out there watching area to Tanigar today. And it was probably around a hundred to 150 and she she's leading this major championship. So I think because you had such a low turnout, there was really a,

There was kind of a lack of a buzz, a lack of energy where it didn't have that sort of major championship vibe to it. And I think also it comes with the venue. The Club of Carlton is a lovely golf course. It's a very nice venue, but it doesn't have that off.

factor when you walk in there that makes you feel like you're at a major championship venue. Like we've seen some of the venues that the women have gone to in years past. But I even said, and Bethann and I talked about this, when we went to Lancaster Country Club for the U.S. Women's Open, you wouldn't think off the top of your head, you know, Lancaster Country Club is going to have this awe factor. But when you walk in there, it does have sort of this grandiose feel to it. So it doesn't always have to be a super

recognizable name, you know, that, that doesn't have to be part of it. Um, but it just doesn't have that same sort of vibe. So, um, yeah, possibly moving the championship, maybe getting it back in that first slot in the calendar, like Bethann suggested, I saw a ton of lead up to the master's tournament and the Augusta national women's amateur in terms of content, um,

online. And you really didn't see that ahead of the Chevron Championship. I think to Bethann's point, there is a little bit of a fatigue factor after covering these huge monumental events. And then it's like, oh yeah, we've got the women's first major of the year. And they certainly deserve more attention and more coverage. And I think there's...

There's just a little bit of a fatigue there with its current spot in the calendar. Okay. I mean, I think one thing that we can all agree on that has to be changed for 2026 is this grandstand setup behind the 18th green at Calden woods. And I don't blame the players at all for basically smoking three woods into the, into the grandstand in the bleachers. You get a free drop. You're behind the green. It's a much easier up and down. And obviously with the penalty short, uh,

But like, do tournament officials realize what's happening here? Like, it seems like a major championship should not be decided by players essentially getting free TIO relief and getting a free drop from the drop zone.

This came up a few years ago at the Chevron Championship as well, when it was out at Mission Hills, when they constructed this huge wall. I think it was around the COVID year and many players were doing the same thing. They were using it as as a backstop of sorts. You know, you have this par five, you know, especially today where you wanted to try and go for the grand two and potentially make Eagle as we saw yesterday.

uh, hate on you do from, from that back portion, uh, as well. So yeah, they're using those grandstands. So the grandstands weren't that close before the renovation. They did a renovation at the club at Carlton woods the year, first year, um, the second year, excuse me, after the championship was played there. And so they did a complete redo. And after they did that, um, I noticed that they moved all of those stands that you're talking about behind that, um,

behind that bunker and that, that area behind the green, they moved him in really close. So it's almost like you can barely even walk between that bunker and that grandstand that is, that is right behind, um, that green there. So to your point, yeah, I think, especially given what we saw today, um, how pivotal this closing hole can be in determining, uh, this championship, it's something they're going to have to look at and, and, and adjust and move back for next year.

Amy, you have to believe me that Lavner and I were just seething with jealousy last week when we read the story that you wrote on GolfChannel.com about Nellie Korda because you had the kind of access that we all love as journalists. It was a really interesting take about Team Nellie. And we know a couple of people were friends with Jamie Mulligan, but it was an incredible story. So I guess I need you to explain twofold. How did this happen and what was the biggest takeaway?

Well, thank you guys. I appreciate that. That's usually how I feel when I'm reading all of your stories. So it's nice to hear that the shoe is on the other foot. But it's amazing what you sometimes just ask for. You think, hey, this is never going to happen. And that's partially what I thought, too. But, you know, hearing Nellie so many times last year credit her team, her team, her team.

It made me just wonder so much more about them, especially as we were heading into the Chevron Championship where we saw them all together make that leap into the pond together last year. And so I reached out to her agent, Chris Melhop, and proposed that

this idea of getting to know her team and sitting down with each of them in addition to Nellie to talk about them. And when he reached out to her, she was very receptive to the idea. And so I was really excited at the opportunity. You know, and as I mentioned in my story, there are many other members of Nellie Corden's team that are,

are behind the scenes, but that's where she would like to keep them. Because if you read my story, you understand that Nelly Korda is, is quite private. And so there were just four members of her team that, that she gave me access to was her agent, Chris, who I emailed Jamie Mulligan, her coach, who you just mentioned Kim, her trainer, and then Jason McD, her caddy. So I sat down with all four of them. I flew out to Las Vegas during the match play event and spent some time just picking their brain and getting to know sort of

how they work and what Nelly's like and just kind of the intricacies of the relationship. And yeah, it was pretty incredible just to be able to have that sort of access and opportunity.

Well, I mean, Nellie is going to have to rely on that team a little bit more after the first major championship of the year. She opened with 76, finished outside the top 10 at the Chevron. You reported on Thursday she was on the verge of tears when she exited the scoring area. Like what's what's going on here? I certainly see some parallels with Scottie Scheffler, who's also going through a win this 2025. Like how is she handling the added scrutiny, the increased expectation? How do you think she's doing at this point this season?

Well, I think if we look at her results so far, obviously it has not been the start to the year that we expected to see from Nellie Korda. But I think therein lies the problem, the expectations, not only the expectations that the media and the fans have after what she did last year and winning seven times.

but also the expectations and the pressure that then she has put on herself. I know I've heard in the past, last season, that she would read everything. She was very aware of what was going on in the media and how she was being covered. And I'm not sure how much she's able to insulate herself from some of that. When I asked her this week, I mean, we try and take them down these rabbit holes. They have to go into the media center and answer these questions in a press conference. And we're asking them what's going on.

and why they're not winning and those things. And I was like, how do you block this out then when you leave? How do you shut that out and try to, you know, just block out any of the chatter? And, you know, she talked about her team and how they do help her kind of stay in her bubble. They don't talk about golf at all or anything like that. But I think that might be some of what we're seeing is just the pressure that she's putting on herself, the pressure she's feeling from the outside to match.

And it is so unreasonable to think that she's going to go out there and do the same, like you mentioned with Scottie Scheffler. I mean, how often do you see someone back up an incredible season like we saw from them last year with another one? And then on top of it, we're seeing her struggling with her putting as well. I mean, she could not buy a putt.

on the first round of this championship. And I saw it last week when she was in LA, when she switched to that blade putter, she had multiple three putts over the course of the week. And so she's been really struggling when she did make the putter change for the second round. She really turned things around at the Chevron championship. But unfortunately it was, it was a little too late. So I think it's, it's a combination of issues that we're seeing right now with Nellie Korda.

Amy, Lexi Thompson ended up finishing tied for 14th, probably not the finish that she was hoping for. But I have to ask with all sincerity, is this what semi-retirement looks like? Because I don't like that because it seems like she's working just as much as she was before.

so i was out in la for the the tournament leading up to the chevron championship where she ended up missing the cut and i was out there on the weekend and she is on the range for hours grinding on the range with her brother that i almost wanted to go back and check the leaderboard i'm like is she still in the field she's still out here working i couldn't believe it i'm like i thought

I thought you were retired. Like if I had missed the cut, I would have like headed on over to Texas or like gone out to the beach in California. And she was just grinding away. I think there's a little bit of still transition time happening here for Lexi Thompson. This is all she's done. I mean, this has been her whole life.

for so long that I think right now she's still very much in golf mode. And we saw that obviously for her to play her way into contention this weekend in retirement and to still be in the mix in a major championship. But she did hit yesterday when she met with the media saying that she's going to play less and less.

And we saw her announce that, you know, she is getting married. She is engaged. So I think once she kind of moves more into that family life and making that separation, I think we'll see her play less and less. But in the meantime, she seems very much still in this game. Amy, I'll let you get out of here on this one. One major championship down, four more to go. What's your biggest question as we sort of head into the meat in the heart of major championship season?

Yeah, I'll be excited to see how some of the stars, how some of the big names do fare as we get into these other major championships. We're going to be going to some new venues that we're not too familiar with, so we're not really sure how they'll perform. I mean, we saw with the leaderboard that we ended up having on this final round at the Chevron Championship, a lot of unexpected names, but we ended up having some incredible stories, you know, getting to know someone like a Lindy Duncan that was in the mix.

and even having Aria Jutanugarn back in the mix after all these years. So I'll be excited to see kind of how, you know, some more people kind of pop up that we get to know, but also how are our stars going to fare in some of these major championships coming up? A Nelly Korda, a Lydia Ko, a Gino Titicoon, who I thought, you know, was going to definitely get it done here this week with the hot form that she's been on to start the season. So there's been a lot of surprises there.

at this first major championship of the year. And I'm curious to see how our stars fare at the next couple coming up. Amy, we certainly look forward to talking with you after those major championships as well. Appreciate the time. If you guys want more, make sure to go to NBC sports.com slash golf. We'll be back with more on the podcast after this short break. All right, Rex, Joaquin Neiman is a winner again on live shot six under in the final round at Chapultepec to emerge from a loaded leaderboard. Bryson stalled out.

from the Eastern Par Sunday round. Jon Rahm couldn't keep it going after a hot start on Friday. Who did you learn more about this past week on Live? Waco, Bryson, or Rahm?

Uh, Bryson to a certain degree, because I couldn't pay attention as much as I probably needed to and wanted to over the final round. Cause again, you pointed out, I was covering the Zurich classic, but when Bryson goes in to a final round with a lead playing the way he does on that golf course, cause that to me was entertaining. I covered a couple of the match play. I mean, I covered a couple of the world golf championships that were played at that golf course. It's 8,000 feet. The ball travels forever. It's fun. And looking at some social media stuff, uh,

This week, they made it fun. They leaned into the idea that Bryson was hitting 400-and-whatever-yard drives. And I think that's a product that resonates with a...

an element of the golf public. So good for them for doing that. And it seemed like the kind of golf course that he could go out there and do that Bryson thing where he just overpowers it and then breaks it over his knee and then throws it and then growls like a gorilla or whatever it is that, that he does. And so that surprises me a little bit. Like, I think we know Joaquin at this point, he is a world-class player. I, I,

Keep making this argument, and I'm going to keep making the argument. If you were a top 10 or a top 15 player when you left, you're probably still a top 10 or a top 15 player. I would argue that Joaquin Neiman, more than any of the players that went to live, is actually a better player now than probably when he was playing on the PGA Tour.

I didn't learn anything about Bryson DeChambeau. He's clearly playing well. He's clearly one of the best players in the world right now when you look at his form. Played well at Doral, played well at the Masters, and then you got to give him credit. He played well at Chapultepec. A golf course, especially with the altitude and the sort of number adjustments that he would have to make –

with how wild his distances are. Like, to be able to play well on that golf course, so the calculations that he and his caddie, Greg Bodine, are doing, like, all credit to him. Those are three wildly different tests of golf, and he has excelled in all three of them. Joaquin Neame is a very interesting one, Rex. He has five live wins now, three this season, by far the most of any player. He's already clinched the U.S. Open live exemption, that very narrow path that the USGA had opened into the U.S. Open with one event still unfulfilled.

to play. He's already clinched that U S open berth, but Joaquin Neiman in the only event that he has played this year, I

against all of the best players in the world, not just the close shot that is live golf, finishing in tie for 29th. Like it all feels meaningless what he's accomplishing if he's not beating the best players in the world and sort of thrusting himself on the next level at that stage. I know it's limited opportunities that he's going to have just four times a year, but he's continually failed to show up in the events that matter most, particularly for live golf players who are not seeing other competition week in and week out.

And I think that's fair. It may be a little, and I don't want to coin this because I'm sure he wouldn't like it, but it's a little bit of the Rory McIlroy effect on this one. We now know, because he's come clean after winning the Masters, how much pressure and how difficult that was year in and year out to show up at the Masters and try to have a good attitude when you know that this probably isn't going to work out well, but I've got to go into this and I've got to have a good attitude. It's probably very, very similar when it comes to all of the Lube players when they show up at the Mates.

because they know that I'm going to be judged by these four, if you're lucky, events, probably less for players like Joaquin Neiman because of the pathways. And as you pointed out, they are very, very narrow. And you're probably putting a lot more pressure on yourself when you show up at the U.S. Open in a few weeks because you know that this is going to be the highlight of my year one way or the other. I can win three more times on live. And the only thing people are going to talk about is how I play at the U.S. Open. I always go back to and

he probably doesn't like it that I do this, but I did a story for the master's journal a few years ago. And the idea was it was trying to pick young and up and coming players. And I sort of had a panel of people that I talked to and Brando Chamblee was one of them. And he picked Joaquin Neiman so high in every single category. And at the time Joaquin hadn't accomplished a whole lot. There wasn't a whole lot on his resume to the point. I was kind of like, I had to keep asking him like,

Are you messing with me here? Like, are you serious? I think people who know the game, who know the swing, who knows what it takes to be successful at that level, recognized immediately he was going to be special. So I'm not going to overanalyze Joaquin when it comes to the major championships, because I can only imagine how difficult it is for a player like that to think to themselves, I've only got two, maybe three chances a year to really prove myself.

I mean, he's so good. He's so talented. He has so many shots, the creativity. He's a fun watch, but having zero top tens and major championships throughout his career when he's now in his mid-20s is just a real head-scratcher for me. So I hope he does figure it out because he's such a fun player to watch. All right, Rex. According to a Golf Week report, it seems like the Tour Championship is in the final stages of whatever it's going to be in

in its latest iteration. We do know it's not going to be starting strokes and it's probably not going to be match play as well. What do you think? Well, give credit to the golf week report because I do think like we know this is coming and you need to keep digging as a reporter. You and I both know that you need to keep digging. There weren't a lot of facts and that there weren't a lot of details, I guess is the way I would put it. I had a chance to talk with a member of the pack and Hilton had about this last week and this

This player explained to me that it's going to change this year. There will be significant changes, but that won't be what we see after that. I think they have a plan of what they want it to become. And it's not clear. It's not going to be a match play, as you pointed out. Certainly no one wants to have starting strokes. No one more so than Scotty Scheffler, who probably is the one that actually torpedoed it single handedly. If we're being honest, I'm not quite sure how you land on something.

That is going to do everything because the tour wants the tour championship to be everything to everyone and

And as we know in life, that's really difficult to do. And in this particular case, you want it to be some sort of big finish for a year long race. But you also need to make it playoff like because, as we talked about in the past, they use the they use the phrase playoff or word playoff in a very incorrect way. Golf does not lend itself to a true playoff. So I'm not quite sure where they're going to land, but I know it's not going to look anything like what it's looked like the last few years.

And like they need to come to a decision here pretty quick. The tour championship begins four months from now. But there's there's a reason, Rex, why this has taken months, if not years of planning, trying to get to this point of what the tour championship could be, because the PGA Tour is trying to shoehorn two really important things into one single week.

And that's basically impossible to do. That's why we've authored other sort of solutions to this, whether it's going to be, you know, finishing the regular season, the Wyndham championship, calling that the feds cup champion, and then having this other boondoggle for three or four weeks. And you can have that as a quote unquote, PJ tour playoffs. It is interesting though, Rex, because there's so many stakeholders who are involved with this very important decision. You have the PJ tour players,

You also have the sponsors. You also have TV involved.

The players might think that what they're trying to formulate here is probably going to stick with some sort of stroke play model because that's what they know best. They probably don't like the idea of having stroke play all season long and then getting to the grand finale and all of a sudden you're completely changing the format that you have not played a single round of golf on the PGA Tour in 2025. Totally get that. But PGA Tour players have sort of different motivations and different ideas of what makes for good television than TV executives, TV

obviously Coca-Cola and other sponsors related to the tour championship have different motivations and desires as well as it relates to the tour product and who is going to be there and how long they're going to be on site at Eastlake. It does not seem like you're going to have any sort of consensus. And I think that's why with the clock ticking, it's going to be very interesting to see the PGA tour players actually decide. All

All right, final topic today, Blades Brown, 17-year-old phenom, nearly won on the Corn Fairy Tour. He is now just shy of earning special temporary status on the Corn Fairy Tour. That would allow him to then receive unlimited sponsor exemptions for the remainder of 2025, basically be a full-fledged Corn Fairy Tour member. He would have no shortage of starts. But he's also, Rex, in the field as of now, as of this recording, at the Byron Nelson Rally.

on a PJ tour sponsor exemption. So should he play the PJ tour or should he sort of get in this week's event on the corn fairy tour and chase that special temporary status? I hope he's getting good advice. And I would argue that good advice is you do not take the Nelson.

you leave that be. You've had an opportunity to play in a few PGA Tour events, and he has not performed very well. I had a chance to cover him at the American Express, and I think he has the potential of being a singular talent. I was impressed by everything about him. No more so than just a presence of mind that goes well beyond his years. I think there is a...

a golf IQ that we don't see from very mental, many players. And when we do see them, they're usually very talented players. So I'm hoping he's being advised to, you don't need to play in the Nelson. The chances of you doing something astronomical top 10, or even a win, uh,

are very, very slim at this point. But what you have is a pathway now, and you need to take advantage of that. And I think we had a very similar conversation last year when it came to Nick Dunlap, where if you're given the opportunity of taking advantage of this pathway, you need to do it. And the way he performed last week, and he had played in a couple of other CoinFairy Tour events, and he seems to be more comfortable out there now. And there's probably something to be said for

It takes a minute for most players, not all players, but most players to learn how to be a PGA Tour professional. Take that minute and do it the right way. I couldn't agree more. To your point, zero top 25s and five PGA Tour starts this season. A couple made cuts on the Corn Fairy Tour prior to this past week in the tie for second, but otherwise little progress. Now that he does have a pathway, you need to go headlong.

into that pathway. You only get four sponsor exemptions per year on the corn fairy tour. He's now gifted into this week's event based on the top 25 finish that he just had. So he gets to maintain that one sponsor exemption. This is his chance. Get a full year of seizing, hopefully on the corn fairy tour. Forget like, you know, guys who are coming out of college, 22, 23 years old. This kid's 17.

He's learning how to play. He's learning how to be a professional. He's learning the rhythms of professional life. I hope that he gets a full year of corn fairy tour seasoning. It has benefited so many players and I think it can certainly benefit blades Brown as well. All right. A couple of minutes left wrecks. You have been enjoying your week in New Orleans. You certainly look a couple of pounds heavier. You've been fat shaming yourself, please.

Would you like to enlighten the audience where you have gone and why you've chosen to go there? We talked about it Wednesday. I caught up in the old staples. I went to Galatoire's. I went to Mr. B's, which is always one of my favorites. But you didn't get barbecue shrimp.

I did not because I went to Pascal Manali's the next night. And that's where you want to get barbecue shrimp because that's the home of the barbecue shrimp. But the one I wanted to lean into and I need a full disclosure here, journalistic disclosure. I have a new favorite restaurant in New Orleans. However, the executive chef at that restaurant I am related to.

He is my wife's cousin and he is a chef and he does a wonderful job. And it's called Jack Rose. It's in the Ponce Train Hotel. It's not far from where I'm staying. It's in the central business district. And it's a historic hotel. There's a restaurant. There's two bars. We went there with some family on my wife's side and he just started bringing out food. And it was unbelievable food.

I'm going to get this wrong right there. But there you see that is some sort of risotto and shrimp dish at Ponce de Trane Hotel, which was good. But the best one, if you can flip forward really quick, was a noodle dish that was great.

Cold smoked, that is not it. That's actually at Mr. B's. This is just an assortment of your... You're just going through them. All right, that's fine. I will say that Mr. B's, that's at the Carousel Bar at the Mont Leon. That is a Sazerac. That's where my wife and I's reception was, and I promised my wife I would have a Sazerac. Oh, my. They are so delicious. This is the first time I've had oysters in probably 10 years. I had a very bad experience with oysters a few years ago, but I'm back on the wagon. However, I had...

Full disclosure, Jack Rose, please. It's a must stop. It is so good. Fun fact for you guys at home. Rex was married.

On April 10th, that was also my birthday. We were destined. It was fate that we were going to do this podcast together. All right. That is going to do it for this edition of the Golf Show Podcast with Rex and Lab. You guys know the drill. NBCSports.com slash golf for all the latest news, notes, and updates. Rex will be back on Wednesday for a full edition and a preview of the Byron Nelson starring Scotty Scheffler, Jordan Spieth, and Will Zalator. Thanks for listening. Thanks for support. Talk to you guys in a couple of days.

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