Rory opens up on media availability – and why it's a complicated path forward
38:04 Share

Uber is on the way, so you can be on yours. Uber, on our way.

Are you still quoting 30-year-old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now. It pays to discover. Learn more at discover.com slash credit card based on the February 2024 Nelson Report.

Hello and welcome into this edition of the Golf Show Podcast with Rex and Lab. We're a week out from the U.S. Open. Roy McIlroy is getting a final tune-up in this week at the RBC Canadian Open. More on that in just a little bit. Rex, you are finally home after three consecutive weeks on the road. How long was your lawn?

When you actually got back to Longwood. Still really long, still really gross. That's my next thing on my to-do list when we get done with this podcast. I think we addressed this when I packed for that particular trip, which turned into three consecutive weeks, a little over three weeks, actually. I forgot my pants. I think we talked about this on a previous podcast. I did not pack pants. Pantsless.

Along the way, I clearly bought pants because you can't make it through three weeks. I got to be honest with you. Coming home, flying home yesterday, I looked at myself in the Atlanta airport as I was trying to catch my connection. I was disgusting. I made myself. You have seen some things. I've seen some things. I smell. I've got stains and I'm not quite sure what they are. Like it could be ketchup.

Could be coffee. I don't know what this is. Like, I don't have anything clean anymore. And I ran up quite the dry cleaning bill, Fred, just so you know that when those two are coming your way, actually two dry cleaning bills. But it's just disgusting. Like, I'm looking at the person sitting next to me like, God, this person, like, as soon as they sat down, I could just imagine them rolling your eyes. Why do I have to sit next to the homeless person?

Someone said in an Instagram comment that Rex Haggard is the Ben Shapiro of golf. I'm sure that was just an autocorrect mistake.

But he's had the last three weeks certainly apropos. Before we get to Roy, I think there's a lot to get to with that conversation. Luke Clanton also making his debut as a PGA Tour full-fledged member this week in Canada as well. You and I were both part of Golf Channel's Golf's Longest Day programming on Monday. You were in Ohio. I was in Georgia.

How was your Springfield site? Not as good as yours. You crushed it. Now you were so happy. You caught an earlier flight and you didn't have a playoff. You were so happy. You just skated in and skated out. And every time I got the text from you on the chain that we were on, I would just see more in jealousy. I think I might've said something mean about Zach Blair once or twice. We had, we had a four hole playoff that went pretty much till dark and

Uh, we didn't have any delays. I did like the finish. I would have nothing against Zach Blair. And I certainly hope the first alternate is John Peterson. And it's that John Peterson. The funniest part about Monday for me is we did an early report right out of the gates where we kind of whip around the horn. You, you had some issues and you look like you were locked in a library. Uh,

But and then we had a midday hit. And so for the midday hit, I was trying to find whatever was relevant. Like at that point, you're trying to find someone on the leaderboard. And the leader at that point in time was an amateur by the name of John Peterson. And I was getting so aggravated because every time I Google search trying to find anything like I want to do something on the leader, it kept deferring to the former PGA Tour pro.

who played 96 PGA Tour events, earned a little over $2 million. Former NCAA champion. LSU. Like, yeah, big personality in the game. Certainly liked John, missed John, but that's not the John I was trying to find. I was trying to find whoever this amateur John Peterson is.

And then to my surprise, when I actually wandered out on the golf course, it was that John Peterson. He had gotten his amateur status back. He is now a garage door salesman, and he's still a really good golfer. He was in the playoff with Zach Blair and two other players. Zach Blair ended up winning on the fourth hole. John Peterson will be the first alternate, and I'm very hopeful. Usually that first alternate from my site, Springfield, gets in. So I'm very hopeful because it is a really cool story, and it was cool to catch up with him.

Like it, I I'm sorry. I whiffed on the midday show. Cause I could have done a solid 75 seconds, which is what we were told to do on, on John Peterson, because he's such an interesting story. You and I both, I think you did a big feature on him back in the day, certainly outspoken and he was missed. And so I certainly hope to see him at Oakmont. Yeah. You would think the first alternate out of Springfield, particularly with how many torn tendons, I mean, torn wrist tensions you're going to have in practice rounds at Oakmont or guys who just walk up the golf course, but like, nah,

I think I'm good here. We'll see you at the Open Championship. Yeah, I think they can go pretty deep on the alternate list. I mean, you're exactly right. That is the smoothest golf's longest day I think I've ever had. First of all, I was just outside Atlanta at Piedmont Driving Club. I'm not sure you've ever played there. It is a magnificent site, very much like Peachtree, probably just –

a little bit slightly less snooty, I would say, than Peachtree Golf Club, although I'd certainly love to get on that golf course as well. So I flew in very early on Monday morning because we got rid of the 7 to 9 a.m. show. So I got in like 8 o'clock in the morning, had plenty of time,

You know, work in the work of the range for scoops, trying to figure out exactly who I was going to be talking about, went on the golf course toward the golf course, watch some groups come in. Yes, I did have a technical issue. If you saw the little Brady box or Brady bunch of boxes that they used at the top of every hour where everyone's just sort of standing and nodding. Yes, I was the only one who was in the men's locker room.

We had a live view issue. That's how we transmit all of our live broadcasts. Ended up getting resolved for the midday show, so it was not a huge issue. But no playoff. Will Chandler, a PGA Tour player out of Georgia, hashtag go dogs. He made a birdie on his last hole to save us from what would have been a three-for-one playoff. And so it was clean. There was five guys. It took me, I think, the fewest takes ever.

In order to knock out my rap at the end of the day. I mean, I was feeling so good. And I think the only thing that I was disappointed about is, look, we're all competitive people. I'm selfish. I'm a little bit greedy. Like, I want to have the best story. You know, we always joke about, like, who can get the guys to cry. You know, I want to have the viral clip. I was this close on two fronts. So was I. Yeah, so close. Man.

But I think when you get to your Springfield site, certainly because it's so PGA Tour dominated, certainly in the Georgia qualifier. Like, I feel like we just miss out on some of these offbeat stories. Like for my site in particular, the Southeast is such a hotbed.

for golf. And it's a lot of, um, sec college kids who are, you know, going to be future PGA tour players. We had a lot of fringe PGA tour players like Grayson Sig, Steven Fisk, Hayden Buckley, all in the mix. Those guys just aren't going to be, uh,

you know, as emotional as the dentist who you had out in Washington or any other player who, you know, in, in New Jersey or Canada, who, you know, he's fulfilling a lifelong dream for these sec college kids. It feels like this is their destiny. And this is their faith that they're going to be playing in us opens for a PJ tour fringe player. Like, yeah, it seems like the next logical step in their career. We just didn't get any of those, even though we almost still got some guys to cry.

And the guy who was medalist at my site, it's a former college player. I believe he played at Indiana. His name was Grant Hafner. Really interesting dude. He would have taken medalist honors. Yeah.

Huh? Great hat. Made like a 70-footer on the last green. Quite the celebration. Like, it was all pretty good. I was this close to getting him to cry. Couldn't get him over the hump, I think. Actually, Keir Kaye with the dentist probably won. I think I watched that interview. It seemed very emotional. And then the other one was, and this kid is qualified almost every year at the Springfield side. He's a former Ohio State kid, Max Moldovan. And it was funny because two years ago, he lost in a playoff.

And in darkness, and he was going to be the first alternate and I was confident then just as I was confident on Monday that john Peterson will probably get in. I didn't tell Max that for the interview, because like, oh, this this must just kill you that you're not getting in the open.

Is that it? And so this time around, Max was a little bit more relaxed. He was still emotional. Cool stories. You're right. But my site, certainly Todd Lewis's site in Columbus, your site, the hotbed in the Southeast. Yeah, those are gravitated towards more sort of aspiring professionals, guys who were just trying to break through. Yeah, the better stories, I tend to agree with you. They come from New Jersey. They come from Canada. Certainly what happened in Washington was really cool.

I want to say, since this is a podcast on Golf Channel, we tend to be pretty diehard. Keep an eye out for this kid named Mason Howell.

He's the 17-year-old rising high school senior. He's going to Georgia in the fall of 2026. This dude is good. It's like if Harris English and Davis Thompson had a baby. Like, he sort of looks like Davis Thompson, but he has the game. Like Harris English, he's got a ton of firepower. I mean, the kid shot bogey-free rounds of 63-63 rounds.

At the age of 17, I know he was matched by Jackson Buchanan, who's also a really good player. Just finished up his college career at Illinois. They were seven shots better, Rex, than any excuse me, six shots better than anyone else in this qualifier. Like in this qualifier, again, had PGA Tour players had hot shot college kids like I know a lot of people scoffed at it, said the golf course must have been too easy, like.

He's 17 years old. It's, it's incredible. It's another example. I think of how deep junior golf is. I know we talked about Charlie Woods on the Sunday show, but like miles Russell blades, Brown should blade Brown barely junior golf right now. I mean, Tyler Watts, the best and the brightest are certainly coming through the junior ranks right now. Very exciting. All right, let's move on to the professional ranks in the PGA tour event this week.

In Canada, Roy McIlroy looking for his third win in Canada and what actually would be the 30th PGA Tour title of his career. On Wednesday, just finished up his press conference just outside Toronto. It's the first time we've heard from him, Rex, since his no-show at the PGA Championship, although he finished as the top 45. We did not actually hear from Roy.

after his press conference on Tuesday at Quail Hollow. What'd you take away from what he had to say with the media and sort of what are you anticipating from Roy this week? I think it was probably pretty much what we expected when it comes to going back to the PGA championship, his decisions not to talk to the media after each of the four rounds, we knew he was aggravated that his driver had been deemed nonconforming. And it turns out he was aggravated because the story got out. It is interesting that,

that he was more aggravated that the story got out and it didn't necessarily get out that Scottie Scheffler's driver also was deemed nonconforming. Although I would say that seems like you're splitting hairs because it did eventually come out. Like we learned that Scottie Scheffler's driver and Scottie addressed it. And I would argue that Scottie's, the way in which Scottie addressed it

probably made it a much easier pill for many, many people to swallow because he explained it in a way that everyone seemed to understand that. Yes, it was deemed nonconforming. I've been using it for a year. That's usually the shelf life on one of these drivers based on how hard we swing it and how often we swing it. When you're pounding the club face time and time again, eventually all of them are going to be deemed nonconforming. I understand his level of aggravation. I still keep going back to how he stood in front of a microphone at

at Quail Hollow and had this explanation, it would have probably gone the same way that Scottie Scheffler's conversation went, that everyone would have understood. Otherwise, you left the void to be filled by people who don't understand the system, don't understand that these drivers will all be eventually deemed nonconforming. If they're not, you've got the wrong driver. I was teasing last week with one of the equipment reps about would you ever, the way these are sort of measured, it's not necessarily a number. It is a number, but you're either green

You're yellow, which would clearly be right in the middle, right on the line, or you're red. You're deemed nonconforming. My question to two equipment reps last week at Mirafield Village was, would you ever give a green driver to a tour player? And absolutely not. We don't have one in the truck.

Like there would be no reason to do that because he'd hit it once. He'd look at the numbers and be like, no, thanks. That's not the one I want at all. They have no interest in giving up distance. That's not on anyone's dance card. And so I get that. There were some other reasons why he chose not to talk to the media. Again, I'm not going to go down this avenue that they have to. I just think it was disappointing. Yeah. When it comes to the driver stuff,

Rory said that he knew that Scotty's driver had failed on Monday and that he he didn't feel like it was his responsibility to offer that information, which I think is probably correct. Rory was pissed off, to use his words, because he said that this was supposed to be a confidential incident.

testing and it got leaked by two separate media members without his knowledge prior. And so Rory was annoyed at that process and he didn't want to, he said he didn't want to go in front of the media then after his second round, which is when it leaked and say something that he regretted. Well,

whether he was, you know, needing to protect Scotty Scheffler and his failed driver test, needing to protect TaylorMade, needing to protect USJ, PJ of America, whoever it was going to be. He just didn't want to have to face the music at that point in the mindset that he was having. So I totally understand that. Would he have been better off explaining that probably a day later? Yeah. I think on Saturday it would have made a lot of sense. Roy's rationale for why he did not talk to the media is,

sort of had to do with just logistics where on Thursday he didn't play well. He wanted to go practice on, on Friday, the driver issue came out. He also finished late. He said he wanted to get home before Poppy went to bed on Saturday. That was the day. Remember you had, he was supposed to be one of the first groups off and they're going off the backside. One of the last groups off said it was just a long day. He was tired and wanted to go back to his house. And on Sunday, uh,

He was out of contention at the PGA Championship. Looks like his rival, Scotty Scuffler, was going to win another major championship and just wanted to get home to South Florida. This does bring up, Rex, I think, the possibility of a larger conversation of what does a professional golfer owe the media. It's something that we've been talking about for the last couple months, thanks to Kyle Morikawa when he stiffened the media after Bay Hill. Rory said that from a responsibility standpoint, he understands that.

But he believes that it should be a two-way street and that if PGA Tour players wanted to, they could completely bypass any and all media that were there on site to cover it and just go onto their phones and

And record a 90 second video to talk about their rounds. Talk about anything that happened posted on Instagram or Twitter. And off they went. And that would be sort of their connecting with the fans. That of course is the point of our job. Is it not? We're supposed to be the liaison. The proxy between PGA Tour players and golf fans in general. So in his opinion, there needs to be a two-way street of understanding. Where sometimes these guys don't want to talk after a round.

while also understanding it's an obligation. Sponsors have, the sponsors are anticipating that they're going to be in front of their signage and talking to the media that are ensemble as well, and also the fans. Until there is something concrete, until there is something mandatory in the PGA Tour regulations,

Roy said this is just going to be the way of life on the PGA Tour and the media who cover it. And let's be clear, and I think you kind of read into this, so I do want to unpack this a little bit. The way I understood your explanation following Quail Hollow, you felt as if Roy was sending a message that maybe we should consider some sort of policy, correct? Yes. Yes, correct. I don't know that to be true. Certainly this is something that Roy has thought about. Certainly it's something the PGA Tour has thought about. And I can say...

In conversations with the tour since this happened, I tend to be in agreement with those in the communications department that have the same concerns that you and I and the media have. That when you have a player of Roy McIlroy's statue that skips all four days,

It's not great, but the bigger issue here is it sets a standard for every other player on the PGA Tour. The other 155 players at Quail Hollow were looking and saying to themselves, well, if that guy isn't going to do it, then why in the world would I talk to the media after a round? It makes no sense. That is disturbing. That's concerning for all of us.

The flip side of that would be what you're alluding to. The idea that maybe, like every other sport, most sports, maybe the PGA Tour should have a policy that demands players have media availability after each round. I tend to agree with some of the folks at the PGA Tour who I've discussed this with, that that would be counterproductive because

Because what you could possibly end up with in that situation is even more animosity, which this dropped up on the column or collar issue, going from Bay Hill to the players championship and everything that happened there. You could end up with the Marshawn Lynch situation where now you have players who will sit and stand in front of the camera and either not say anything at all or battle nonsense like he famously did back in the day to avoid the fines. I don't think that's productive at all. The system that the PGA tour has had,

for decades has worked well. We now have one player that seems like he wants to have an issue with this and make some sort of a statement. I'm still not 100% sure what his statement is because I'm not quite sure you're reading the room correctly on it. So I don't necessarily think that Rory is trying to make a stand, but I think he's doing so unintentionally at this point. Here's his exact quote on Wednesday where, quote, if they want to make it mandatory, quote,

Talking about PG players having to talk. That's fine. But in our rules, it's not. And until the day that's written into the regulations, you're going to have guys skip from time to time. And that's well within our, I mean, it's, it's hard to, it's hard to quibble with what he's saying there is Roy McIlroy pushing for this to be legislated in PG to regulations. I would say no, but,

I don't think he's, I don't, I don't think he's, I don't think he's vocally supporting that move, but I also don't think he's necessarily opposed to it either. And I think he's unintentionally making a stand where if it becomes the norm, if more players do follow suit, if PG tour executives start hearing from sponsors or other partners that this is becoming an issue, then yeah, I think this could, we could go back and look at this moment in time and be like, yep,

Yep. This is what happened, whether it was Kyle Morikawa, whether it was Shane Lowry voicing support for an idea of like a 15 to 30 minute cool off period, whether it was Rory McIlroy not talking to the media for all four days at the PGA Championship. I do think that this is sort of a seminal moment.

in time as it comes to athlete and media relations. Such as fingers up, please do go ahead. This goes back to our conversation on Sunday night, and I'm still giggling about sort of the philosophy when it comes to mud balls on the PGA tour. And the way it was explained to me is they will allow preferred lives, live clean in place under extreme mud balls. That's every single day, not one or two days of the week, which I still makes me laugh. I don't know why that they've come up with a name for it. It applies to this situation as well.

In Rory's parlance, it would be extreme avoidance versus non-extreme avoidance. So if you avoid the media once or twice over the course of the week, that's fine. But if you do it every day, like, I don't know, someone may have done or may not have done at Quail Hollow, that seems like it's extreme avoidance and we should probably avoid that. And as media members, I think we need to be self-aware, right? Like if Rory shoots 71 in the opening round of the RBC Canadian Open, do you really need to hear from him?

I would argue no. I think you'd be better off waiting until if or when he plays well, waiting until the end of the week. I don't think it's necessary to put him in front of a microphone all four days, even if he's not necessarily a part of the conversation of a tournament. That's where I think, to his point, there should be a two-way street or a level of understanding among media members as well that, yes, would it be nice to have a Roy McIlroy headline?

on our homepage and have fresh Roy McIlroy quotes? Certainly. Would it actually be counterproductive? Yeah. I also think for the PGA Tour's sake, it would be really hard to legislate mandatory participation for players and media members. We mentioned Harris English earlier. If Harris English is 35th at the RBC Canadian Open,

Does he have to talk to the media? How will he know that the media wants to talk to him? Does he need to just make himself available for five minutes after his round if anyone wants to? Do you have to sort of create the situation where you've covered a couple Olympics now where you have sort of the gauntlet that these guys have to go through even after the round if no one wants to talk to them? Basically building that little template at every single PGA Tour stop just so they can sort

sort of check the box saying, yes, this was mandatory and no one wanted to talk to them. I think it's really difficult to legislate for these guys over the course of a 45 event PGA tour schedule. But again, I think it's worth the conversation. And,

And to your point, there's a lot of dancing that goes on behind the scenes when it comes to the media, at least on the TV side. So to give you an example, to go back to Fort Worth and the Colonial, where I was the reporter that week. And you always, with Scotty being in the field, being the primary example, you always want to be cognizant of, yes, we could probably ask for Scotty after every single round. But their conversation with the producers are, do we really want to do this?

on a Friday after he shot 71 versus what we may need slash want on a Saturday or Sunday. So yes, to your point, I think most media members, whether they be TV or otherwise, are cognizant of the idea that this is a give and take. Like there was a time when Tiger Woods talked after every single round. I don't think that's the expectation anymore. No, nor should it be in this current environment. And a lot of fans will just say, well, stop talking about him. If he doesn't want to talk,

You know, just focus on somebody else. But there was a moment in Roy McIlroy's press conference on Wednesday where he served a reminder of why it's so important to get him in front of a microphone and to get his thoughts on things. Because Adam Stanley, our friend of the podcast, great Canadian golf writer, asked him, you know, what are you chasing?

At this point, you just accomplished the career grand slam. You know, what are you, what are you chasing at this point? And Roy's response was, I don't know that I'm chasing anything. And in fact, you know, having a couple of weeks off,

After the PGA championship, I found it a little bit tougher to grind on the range for three or four hours because you just had the significant event in your life, something that you have been dedicating your entire life to achieving with the career grand slam. It's a little bit hard to find the motivation to get back on the horse and

and go again. That is a phenomenal quote. That is phenomenal insight. That really lets us know what Roy McIlroy is feeling at this point in time on June 4th with two major championships to go with the Ryder Cup on deck a couple of months after that. There is so much yet to play for this PGA Tour season, and he is admitting...

publicly that it's really difficult for him right now to find some level of motivation. That's terrific. And you would only get that if Roy McIlroy is in front of the microphone. That's why I think he's such a crucial figure for the PGA tour. That's why I think this conversation is worth having, because if you don't have that,

I think we're, we're, we're poorer as golf media. We're pure as golf observers, golf fans don't quite understand these players as well. It makes them more human. And I think that's why we're tuning in in the first place.

I don't know that there's been an athlete, at least since I've covered the PGA Tour, who is as honest when it comes to what's going on in his life, what's going on in his own head as Roy McIlroy, sometimes to his detriment. Sometimes he has admitted in the past that maybe I need to keep some things to myself. I guess Jordan Spieth would be a very close second because both of them seem just as if they're shot full of sodium pentothal every time you put a microphone in front of them. And that's a good thing for us. We like to do storytelling.

To that point, that was a phenomenal answer because the entire narrative ever since he won on that glorious Sunday at Augusta National is what's next? What do you really do when you get to the top of the mountain? I don't anticipate Rory McIlroy following David Duvall's lead where David Duvall got the number one in the world, won the Open Championship, won his first major and realized, nah, that was

That was a lot of work for nothing. I don't imagine that that's going to be the case with Rory, but a hangover, that's not only expected. I think it was obvious that there was going to be a few weeks afterwards where you're going to struggle a little bit. It'll be telling by the time we get to the end of the season. It's not going to happen after the U.S. Open or the Open Championship or even the Ryder Cup. But as we start to have these conversations in December, you

And if the hangover has lasted, then I think it is an interesting conversation that what happens when you get to the top of the mountain professionally. I now know what that feels like. And I got to tell you, it's difficult for me to come to work sometimes.

I mean, I remember the hangover that I had. Sure. Yeah, right there. The rest of 2020. Mine's going to go right here. That's a great spot for it. Just outside the view of the camera. Sure. Just as mine is. Roy McIlroy, by the way, a two-time winner at the RBC Canadian Open. First time they played this golf course at TBC Toronto. He described it right. So it is a TBC venue. A quote, typical venue.

TPC set up said it quote could be a good test by the end of the week. It does not seem like TPC Toronto is going to be winning any architectural awards by golf digest. It's still going to serve as a, as a tune-up for next week's us open at one of the most difficult golf courses, if not the most difficult golf course on the planet.

Another player, Rex, who I think much will be expected, not just this week, but for the rest of 2025, is Luke Clanton. He's the second player to get through the PGA Tour University Accelerator Program, which awards points for high amateur finishes, either in amateur events and college events, but also the PGA Tour. He just finished his junior season at Florida State. This is a player who you might recall burst onto the scene last summer, had four top 10 finishes, runner-up finishes at the Deer,

runner-up finish at the RSM Classic as well. What are your expectations as now Luke Clanton joins the play-for-play set?

I think the potential is phenomenal. Before I get to that, though, we have a tendency in golf media, not just on this podcast, of only looking at the negative things that the PGA Tour does. Primary example was last week's podcast when we picked apart the Tour Championship and all the changes. And I think I used Lucas Glover's line that if you change something 17 times, you've probably built a bad golf course.

And so it's easy to always throw those slings and arrows in the PGA Tours direction. I will say that this is one of the most brilliant moments in the PGA Tour history in two plus decades of covering the circuit because what they've created with PGA Tour U and Accelerated is the pathway that I think everyone has always wanted and needed, which was obvious. And there are going to be pitfalls here. I don't think Luke Clanton is going to be one of them.

You look at the things that he does well, and he has the makeup. He has the bones of a phenomenal PGA Tour player. There are still some things that I'm sure he has to learn, but I was at the RSM Classic and just blown away with how he didn't seem to have any holes in his game. Yes, he could probably clean up something here or there, but when you talk to Trey Jones, his coach at Florida State, and you ask him point blank –

Is there anything he needs to get better at to being the PGA tour Trey Jones, who was also Brooks Koepka's coach at Florida state. So he knows a thing or two about what makes a good PGA tour player. And he struggles to come up with something specifically. That's probably going to be the five tool player. That's going to last on the PGA tour. I'm not saying he's going to come out and do a Jordan Spieth or a Scottie Scheffler right this season. There is going to be a learning curve involved here, but that learning curve has gotten so much smaller. And I just think that,

We always gloss over the things the tour does well, and this is one of them. And a lot of people keep pointing to the fact that Live Golf came around and all of a sudden they could and they have in some instances poached

They did it this week. This young talent that could have been. Yeah, we're going to get to Jose Ballester, the 2024 U.S. Amateur Champion, played the Masters, just snagged him for Sergio Garcia's Fireballs squad. But this had been in the works PGA Tour University had long before. It was actually announced and implemented.

before live golf came around as well so i do think that's important to point out as well as it relates to luke clinton i mean luke clinton david ford gordon sergeant who was the first player to advance to this accelerated program they all have status now on the pj tour through the end of the 2026 season and i think that's important to point out because it allows these guys now

to get settled and have a transition period from elite high level amateur and college golf to the professional ranks. Typically before PGA tour university accelerated program came around, if you were a hotshot Luke Clanton, right? And you wanted to turn pro similar to what a John Rom face, similar to what a Jordan speed face, they had this race for,

for seven unrestricted sponsor exemptions that they would have as soon as the college season ended. And they're maximizing their schedule to make sure they got enough

It would be the equivalent of number 125 in the FedExCup points list for non-member points. And they're basically playing almost every single week to try and get the equivalent of that 125. Sometimes they do it in the case of a Spieth or a Rahm. Sometimes they don't, and they're then relegated to the Corn Fairy Tour mini tours, and they have to work their way up that way. This is such a better system, and I think it will prove to be –

a greater predictor of future success is,

because you're giving these guys a little bit of a one runway. It isn't just a stress fest in the summer where they're learning all of these things for the first time, what it's like to be a professional, what it's like to travel every single week, what it's like to compete against the world's best players, what it's like to have the Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday in anticipation of a tournament, what you're supposed to do throughout tournament rounds after the round recovery, like all of these things you're learning in real time. Now,

These top players, whether it's Gordon Sargent, whether it's David Ford, whether it's Luke Clanton, they now actually have a year and a half to get their footing as PGA Tour players. And I think that's really I think that's first of all, it's rewarding their amateur success, which I think is important. But I also think it's it's allowing them to find their footing more naturally, which I think will, as a result, produce better, more consistent, longer lasting careers.

You brought up Gordon Sargent and you cover obviously the college game much better than anyone. You are a college expert at Golf Channel. And I am curious about not sure why that created such a laugh out of you. I am curious about Gordon Sargent because I I've heard the rumblings that pretty much ever since he got his PGA Tour card that he has struggled at Vanderbilt.

And I'm sure it's not as a result of earning your PGA Tour card, but there is a concern on that level that if you're going to create this pathway, that you could also create pressure.

I mean, you certainly could. I mean, Gordon Sargent has completely lost his game, could even crack the starting five for Vanderbilt this year for the postseason. As a result, they did not make it all the way to match play, which, you know, a couple of years ago would have seemed unthinkable after Gordon Sargent was the NCAA champion as a freshman with the Commodores. I understand that. But at least if you're Gordon Sargent now and he just shot 80 yards.

In the first round of US Open qualifying, I think expectations for him are much lower. At least now he has a little bit of a runway, right, to work his way out of it, as opposed to if in the old format, he now had the seven sponsor exemptions. In all likelihood, he would not maximize those opportunities. And then where do you go?

Are you conditional status on the Corn Fairy Tour? Are you playing in Canada? He's just sort of lost. This way, he's already proven his potential. That's why this system exists, because you're earning points because of your world amateur ranking. You're earning points because of some amateur or college events that you have won. He's already proven himself in some sense. Now, at least he's biding himself time

to sort of work through it. I had an interview to talk to Jackson Coven, who just wrapped up his sophomore season at Auburn. He is actually Rex already earned his PGA tour card in two seasons at Auburn, which would have been unthinkable. Once this program actually came out, he has already announced that he's going to defer that membership until at least after his junior season at Auburn. And so he's going back to college with the knowledge that whenever he wants, he can take up,

PGA tour membership. I think that's really powerful. He can get all of his life.

His responsibilities, his equipment contracts, his agency contracts. He knows where he could map out a schedule that he's going to have once he turns pro, potentially at the end of his junior season. I think you look at that conversely to what's happened with Nick Dunlap and the amount of conversations we've had about Nick Dunlap after the whirlwind Amex win that he had in 2024, his life changing in an instant overnight, which pathway is more preferable?

I would argue it's Jackson Coivins. Will it be more successful? We're going to have to wait five or 10 years to find out. But I think that is a better way to start your PGA Tour career and to potentially have a longer lasting PGA Tour career than everything happening in spur of the moment, being really stressed and trying to maximize those few opportunities when they come.

in the hierarchy of hot takes and you and I both are guilty of having bad hot takes on numerous occasions. I still don't know where my take on Nick Dunlap and your take at, in the heat of the moment, it was Sunday night at the American express after he had won, I was in the desert. So I was covering the event and I understood where you were coming from. You, you,

Did not actually you didn't you didn't go to the mat with the idea that maybe he should just go back to Alabama. But you suggested it. And I thought it was ridiculous because of what he had just given himself the opportunity to do. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity. This was just not a normal win out of nowhere. This is in the height of this is the first signature of in season.

And now suddenly he went from zero to qualified for every signature event. It was an opportunity that I felt like you simply cannot pass up. Whether or not, if he's ready or not, you're never going to get this opportunity again. So take advantage of it. Now, with hindsight, he struggled mightily the rest of the year. He ended up winning for the second time later that season in the fall. And so I think there is some justification there, but it is an interesting conversation.

I mean, realistically, logistically, of course he was going to have to take up membership. The perks are too good. I just, I, I sort of equate it to other sports.

where you look at like a Cooper flag, right? Who had this incredible season at Duke. He knows he's going to be the number one pick in the NBA draft. He plays out his college season through the end of March. He doesn't have to play pro ball Rex, at least for games that count that matter until what October. And so he basically has a six month runway to,

to get his life in order, to understand what it's like to be a professional before he actually hits the ground running. If you're a Nick Dunlap or a PGA Tour player, it's a rare instance, but his life changed overnight and all of a sudden he had to become a professional. All of a sudden, at the NCAA championship, these other hotshot college players now have to learn how to be a PGA Tour player. There is no grace period

in pro golf as there is in a basketball or a baseball, just because of how the seasons work. That is why I think it would have been beneficial for Nick Dunlap. Obviously he's a two-time winner on the PGA tour. I know he's going through a rough patch right now with the driver yips. I'm sure the talent will overcome and he'll be fine. He has a runway to do so with the two-year exemption. However, I just think it's an interesting conversation and it's just further proof of how different professional golf is than a lot of other sports.

All right. That is going to do it for this edition of the Golf Show Podcast with Rex and I'll be back on Sunday night, not for a full 52-minute edition that is made for linear television. We're getting bumped for like PGA Tour and PGA Tour Champions highlights in the morning. And then our buddy Gary Williams and Five Clubs will have a two-hour show live from Oakmont leading into live from the U.S. Open, which you and I will both be on

on Monday at the U.S. Open. But fear not, Rex and I will be still back on Sunday night to do a recap of the RBC Canadian Open, look ahead to the U.S. Open, and whatever else comes up, it'll just be live on YouTube. All right, in the meantime, you guys are the drill. NBCSports.com slash golf for the latest news, notes, and updates. Thanks for listening. Thanks for the support. We'll talk to you guys on Sunday night. Golf Channel's college expertise.

This Father's Day, help Dad be all he can be with a gift from the Home Depot. Because he's not just Dad, he's the handyman of the house, the plumber in a pinch, and the emergency mechanic. Upgrade his gear this Father's Day with the Husky Mechanics 270-piece tool set from the Home Depot. Now on special buy for $119, a $695 value. For every kind of Dad, find the perfect gift this Father's Day at the Home Depot.

You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. When it comes to hiring, Indeed is all you need. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other job sites. Indeed's sponsored jobs help you stand out and hire fast. With sponsored jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates, so you can reach the people you want faster.

Indeed.com slash NBC Sports right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash NBC Sports.

Indeed.com slash NBC Sports. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring. Indeed is all you need.