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Hey, pull up a chair. It's Hacks on Tap with David Axelrod, Robert Gibbs, and Mike Murphy. Well, I want to laugh at why Nikki Haley didn't answer your question, which is about looking at families in the eye. In the last debate, she made fun of me for actually joining TikTok while her own daughter was actually using the app for a long time. So you might want to take care of your family first. Leave my daughter out of your voice. Leave my daughter out of your voice.

Oh, there we go. The stiletto was applied by Nikki Haley. You know, if I were her campaign, I would have given out in the spin room afterward a couple hundred fly swatters.

Because I think she got the bite of the night with that. Hey, Murphy. It's good to see you. Good to see you. And Admiral Gibbs is here. Yeah, I'm right here. So, guys, another big silver medal debate. Are we still playing along that this is a contested primary election?

Well, Murphy is. Okay. Yep. Yep. I'm not under the delusion of conventional wisdom that has enslaved you guys to a narrow view of this magnificent contest here. I'll give you the headline. Haley wins another one, but she doesn't crush it. You know, I thought, and I've been, you know, I'm not a huge fan, but I'm all for her over Trump. I think she is the one, if there's going to be an upset, a long shot, amazing victory, it's going to be her.

She had a pretty good night, but I'm waiting for her to draw a contrast with Donald Trump. She hints at it, but she doesn't do it, which I think was her biggest mistake. You even tweeted in advance to give her a...

Yeah, I wrote a couple of lines. It's that pathetic now. You should have DM'd her. Yeah, I don't think she has my number. We're not close. I see. But I'll take her over Trump. Go, Nikki, go. And then my other headline would be DeSantis did better than usual. I think Christie had his best debate, but kind of who cares. Yeah.

And Tim Scott, they finally got him some jolt cola. And it looks like for the first time he did some prep. But who cares? He should be out of the race. And the human fly was the human fly. He got more time than anybody else. You know that Tim Scott was the talking leader tonight. Who would have thought that Doug Bergman and Asa Hutchinson were the live wires in these debates? Missed them. It was better to have a few.

It was so much better than the normal crazy one. But I want to ask you guys, how many ships in the Navy? Because we spent a lot of time focused on that. I'd have 4,000 if I could.

Yeah, I know. That was really... Listen, I think it was a pretty substantive debate compared to the others. They actually covered some issues. That's what a smaller group and better questions would do. But that was a Hugh Hewitt special, which was like 10 minutes on what the appropriate... 548. Wrong answer. I mean, it just was... The one joke I was dying to hear, and I was so bummed I tweeted it,

was when Haley got the question, well, what do you think the retirement age should be? And I was dying for her to say, well, for Vivek here, I'd say 38. Because he had just said he was 38. Anyway, that golden moment. It looked very much like the format was designed in many ways really not to, and I think they probably had a meeting on this, right? Not to have the sort of Ronald Reagan debate where everybody was trying to yell at the same time and everybody was,

You know, just kind of descended into a series of voices in many occasions, didn't even if somebody got poked, it didn't even really go back to them. Wanted to, to your point, have a substantive discussion on some of these issues, gave these guys and guys and gals a little bit longer time to talk again, as you said.

The benefit of five and not seven or nine or even more on the stage. Also, though, you heard a lot of rehearsed lines. But I did, to your point, I think DeSantis did better. Boy, that guy, somebody needs to teach him how to smile. He, I mean, he looked like he might just crush the lectern. He had such a grip on the damn thing. The personality scale is not high on that candidate.

But I did think Nikki Haley had another good debate and some interesting answers that I know we'll dive into. We should go back to Mike's main point, which is we are now very, very, you know, we're drawing closer and closer to the Iowa caucuses. And these guys are fighting desperately to separate themselves so that one person can emerge as the challenger to Donald Trump. And so

I think Haley, Haley is the best political athlete on the, on the stage. And she's proven that three times straight, but she didn't separate herself sufficiently here. DeSantis did as well as DeSantis can do, but he's still a kind of strange, you watch his facial contortions and stuff. And it's just,

weird enough putting. But he was good. He, you know, he was better, but he didn't separate himself out. The others, as Mike said, not really a factor in the big scheme of things. So the win, again, Donald Trump, who didn't show up. And I know we had this debate long ago, Murphy, about whether he should or shouldn't. I think it's demonstrably

fact now that he made the right decision because he took a few scuffs here and there in this debate. But by and large, there have been three debates where nobody's really laid a glove on him. And

And they go after each other. If they're not going to take advantage of the situation, then he can win by not being there. Though I still think the reason Nikki Haley is not bankrupt and out of the race right now is the debates have put her back in it. Yeah, that's true. So and if the only one who I think has a chance to beat him in New Hampshire and then roll the table in South Carolina is her. But it's a tall order.

I think two weeks ago or even 10 days ago, I think she was moving into second in Iowa pretty strongly. Because if you look at the register poll, she was up 150%. DeSantis was down 20%. They were passing on the freeway.

But DeSantis has been endorsed by Kim Reynolds, the governor of Iowa. Not a huge powerhouse rule, the primary kind of governor, but popular. That gives him a boost. He came to life a little in the debate. So I think the most interesting question in the race is,

Right now is, is DeSantis going to be able to chip his way into second and push Haley down to third, which will not give her the kind of boost she wants to run the table in New Hampshire, which I think she really needs. My gut is she'll still make second in Iowa, but...

that Randall's thing kind of threw a wrench into what was happening. I'm just not sure how big of a wrench. And I don't know if the debate changed anything. You know, Nikki Haley stepped on the gas a little more, but didn't kill anybody. And DeSantis was, as you said, I think Axe or one of you guys,

as good as he can be. By the way, have you ever seen anybody who loves the Royal we more than DeSantis? Every cent. Well, what we're going to do is we're going to, we're going to just start shooting on the border. You know, I figured let God sort them out. My problem is how much ammunition to bring. You know, we will, we will just, I don't know, maybe it's a quirk of mine, but I hate the Royal we.

And it just makes it so hard to like the guy. They did try with the clothes. Do you see that? The humanization clothes that he clearly memorized, but was about as authentic as a rubber piece of broccoli. I didn't buy it for a minute, but that could be me. Steve Vavrus: Stiff is just not, there's gotta be a better word for it. He just doesn't look comfortable up there.

Yeah, it's an intense look the whole time. No smiles. I mean, there are two people up there who are sort of presidential level debaters. And Haley's one of them and Christie's the other. Yeah. You know, Christie hasn't, you know, he had some traction in New Hampshire. I suspect she's taken...

some of that away from him. But let's listen to a little of this. One of the things I want to listen to was Haley's answer on abortion. And the reason I want to listen to it is because we had another election yesterday. What? Yeah. If Murphy's already put that out of his mind. Yeah. I've already, I went to the hypnotist. Gibbs, you were supposed to put that on his calendar. Oh, it was on his calendar. He just turned the channel. Glenn who? Yeah.

But yeah, we're diving into all that. But you're right. Let's hear her do the abortion thing. You have to be honest with the American people. This is a personal issue for every woman and every man. I am unapologetically pro-life, not because the Republican Party tells me to be, but because my husband Michael was adopted and I had trouble having both of my children. So I'm surrounded by blessings.

Having said that, when you look post Roe, a wrong was made right. They took it out of the hands of unelected justices and they put it in the hands of the people. And now we're seeing states vote. And what I'll tell you is as much as I'm pro-life, I don't judge anyone for being pro-choice and I don't want them to judge me for being pro-life. So when we're looking at this, there's some states that are going more on the pro-life side. I welcome that. There's some states that are going more on the pro-choice side. I wish that wasn't the case, but the people decided.

But when it comes to the federal law, which is what's being debated here, be honest, it's gonna take 60 Senate votes, a majority of the House and a president to sign it. So no, we haven't had 60 Senate votes in over 100 years. We might have 45 pro-life senators. So no Republican president can ban abortions any more than the Democrat president can ban these state laws. So let's find consensus.

Let's agree on how we can ban late-term abortions. Let's make sure we encourage adoptions and good quality adoptions. Let's make sure we make contraception accessible. Let's make sure that none of these state laws put a woman in jail or give her the death penalty for getting an abortion. Let's focus on how to save as many babies as we can and support as many moms as we can and stop the judgment. We don't need to divide America over this issue anymore.

easily the most interesting answer to the debate. And also a pretty good formulation for

Republicans who are getting their asses kicked on this issue. Exactly. I mean, this is back to the way we used to talk about it. She won a lot on tone. She's been doing this all along. The thing that hit me as a little false was not because the Republican Party tells me to. Well, I believe that, but also the polling in South Carolina when she ran in the first primary for governor, I think that might have told her something, too. But

And she's trying to get out. She's trying to slip the noose the party's put around its neck because somehow, you know, we've decided that we're going to refight the abortion issue until there are no Republicans left in federal office. And we had another experiment. We're still burying the bodies from that one from last night. So, you know, she's a she's a politician. She gets it. And it was kind of a master class. And we're see, I thought it was smart.

Murphy, from your Republican perspective and your Iowa experience. Well, he's still a Republican. I thought they'd kick them out. They're trying. Them and what army? Yeah. It was a masterclass general election answer. But using your Iowa experience and your Iowa knowledge, was it a masterclass answer for somebody trying to finish second in the Iowa caucus?

You know, here's my argument why it was good. One, she's been there all along, so dance with the one that brung you. Two, the Iowa caucus is not completely Christian conservative. That's actually a myth.

There's a huge chunk of regulars and kind of regular conservatives. And, you know, she's banking for 23, 22 percent, which will probably get you into second. So I think she made the right move there. We also don't know if 5,000, 20,000, zero or 30,000 Democrat leaning independents are going to show up because they don't have a caucus this year.

So I think she made the right play for her, and it sure is the right play in New Hampshire, which is far less movement conservative and full of independence. So, yeah, yeah, Nikki's had this one for a while, and I think the wipeout yesterday might have made it even a little better for hers. Because I remember her giving this answer in the first debate, and I think she and Pence got into it because he felt she was

supportive enough of the pro-life position. After yesterday, Republicans are searching for some safe harbor here. We'll talk a little later about Governor Youngkin and his safe harbor never showed up. Yeah, it's 50 feet underwater now. Youngkin got dunkened.

I wish I wrote tabloid headlines for a living. That's always the job I want. It is 1243 here in the East. So if anybody wonders about some of the jokes they're going to hear on this particular podcast, that might explain it. We also all had to watch the Republican debate and lost 20 points of IQ each. I was surprised that that abortion question did not come into this debate until 18 minutes left.

in a two-hour debate after what happened last night. Yeah. Well, talk to your network about that. Well, I kind of assumed, yeah, Murphy was supposed to do that. I assumed it would be one of the first couple of subjects and surprised that they got to it late. Let's keep listening to these clips. DeSantis came out and, you know, everything he does is a set piece. I mean, one of my complaints about him is he's not real good in the back and forth.

which is where I think people actually measure you. Haley's pretty good at mixing it up and looking organic and doing it. But he did come out at the beginning and did what he has been hesitant to do to date.

which is he went after Trump. Let's take a listen to that. He should explain why he didn't have Mexico pay for the border wall. He should explain why he racked up so much debt. He should explain why he didn't drain the swamp. And he said Republicans were going to get tired of winning. Well, we saw last night. I'm sick of Republicans losing. Yeah, I thought that was his best riff. Most of the time. You're right. It's always a set piece and it's always the same set piece.

outrage at a problem, two sentences. Here's what I'm or we are going to do, one sentence, and then a violent act. I'm going to shred it and stuff it in a garbage can. I'm going to shoot him in the head. Whatever it is, there's a big punchline, which is basically a fireball and death and destruction.

And this one I thought wasn't that pattern, was tighter. And the fiscal thing, which Haley kind of got into too, is a good weapon in a Republican primary. So I thought it was one of his better runs.

Because he's got to distinguish himself from Trump. You know, if there's not a difference, vote for Trump. Yeah. Well, what's interesting is, you know, his theory has been that he will be Trumpier than Trump and that Trump will fade away. You know, there's an interesting thing CNN did. They call it a focus group. It's not really a focus group, but it's a bunch of voters that they've been talking to in Story County in Nevada, Iowa. And this was the third time they got them together.

And a number of them expressed a concern that Trump's legal difficulties would somehow force him off the ballot. I don't know whether they think about this 14th Amendment thing or whatever it is. And that he said, so I've got this. I'm going to be for DeSantis as my backup.

Yeah, well, that's the dime store Trump idea. Trump without the charm is what his campaign's turned into, which, again, isn't a distinction. And he's DOA in New Hampshire again. You know, all these they're all playing this Iowa game. But when the Iowa is like an Escher lithograph where the stairs go to nowhere.

You know, why go like Scott? His whole thing was an altar call at the end to try to, you know, get a number in Iowa. But then then what happens? Nothing. Ask President Santorum or President Huckabee. But under that scenario, Murphy, if if if this sort of stalled Nikki's ascension to second, what happens if DeSantis finishes? If he finishes second, she finishes third.

One, what do you think that does the dynamic in New Hampshire, if anything? And then does Haley sort of regain the momentum at least to eventually get the one-on-one with Trump because she has an infrastructure and will do better in New Hampshire and then obviously do much better in South Carolina? Yeah. My view is there's no... It's a bum rush. You either behead Trump early or it's over. So the best way to beat Trump is beat him in all three.

But if you can't do that, I think you want to be second in Iowa and then be a candidate who can beat him in New Hampshire. And she's kind of unique because normally the New Hampshire long shot has nothing going in South Carolina. Well, that's her theoretical base. If she does well, if not, he'll squash her. So.

I think she is in second place in Iowa other than the impact of Reynolds. And I think this debate helped her. But DeSantis came to life and he has the governor's endorsement, who, again, is not a big muscle woman in the party. But still, it's something. Yeah. And if there are some voters falling off Trump for just worry, he's trying to scoop them up with the grieving stuff, just like Scott's trying to appeal Christians. So if Nikki's third, it'll blunt the momentum into New Hampshire. Right.

It would be so much better for her to get a decent second in Iowa. And if she can't run the table in New Hampshire and South Carolina, it's over. There's no comeback in Indiana or something. So the other guy who has been –

who has some New Hampshire strategies, Chris Christie. And, you know, he's gotten a little bit of elevation there. But he and Haley are in some ways, I mean, he's much more ardently anti-Trump

Uh, but he, uh, they're basically fishing in the same pond, hoping to get independent voters, uh, to come over. I thought he was really, really good tonight. Yeah. I thought it was his best night, just performance wise that I've seen from him. Yeah. So let's listen to, uh, of his highlights here where he was talking about social security and why he would

support raising the retirement age. And means testing. And means testing, yes. A lot of programs in this country that we all pay for, that we don't get a direct benefit from. Food stamps is one of them. I've never, fortunately in my life, ever had me or my family on food stamps. But I'm glad it's there so that no one in this country goes to bed hungry at night if they have availability to that program. But I don't get a direct benefit.

The fact is on Social Security, remember why it was established. It was established as a safety net program to make sure that no one would grow old in this country in poverty. That's what we got to get back to. Rich people should not be collecting Social Security. Governor, can you give me a specific age, 69, 70? What would the age be? No, look, that's going to be a power of negotiation with Congress, Kirsten. And hell, I'm not going to start negotiating until I get there. And, you know, in this debate, he gave up his Captain Ahab thing about Trump.

Because everybody knows. And he widened his shtick a little bit, which I think did well for him. But on the other hand, and I wrote this in the Bulwark a week ago, get out. You're only helping Trump. Release those New Hampshire votes, which are never going to be for Trump. Could be 8 or 9 percent. You know, turn them loose to have an impact. Don't just burn them up in a dead letterbox, which is what staying in will do. And insane prediction by me, number 804.

if he runs out of money because he's broke now and he doesn't have Boston TV in the clutch, I think you might see him pull out for Haley if she's got something going in New Hampshire. You can see the body language between them was very good. Yeah, they were talking apparently during the breaks too, you could see. Yeah, and what hurts Trump the most if she has a surge and he's not dumb enough to stay in for 6% to be a spoiler. Let's take a short break and hear from our sponsors. All right, can we talk about

Vivek Ramaswamy. Do we have to? I mean, he is like a whirling dervish of bullshit. Yeah. It is just really extraordinary and offensive. And maybe we should just say that as much as we ding Ron DeSantis for not being likable, Vivek Ramaswamy is...

By far. He makes DeSantis look like Mr. Congeniality. Yeah, it's a... Oh, totally. One, you can just tell how very little any of those people want anything to do with him. And I thought on many occasions...

You could almost see DeSantis and Haley kind of looking at each other because he was trying to get, you know, he's trying to take his 4% and make it 6%. And they were really, until she finally got poked too much or used it to her advantage,

They tried not to get involved with him and bring him up to their level. Smart not to punch down. Not easy when that guy's so unlikable. I kind of thought Christie might get out his tire chain and just Marco him the pieces just to gain a little audience sympathy because, you know, and Christie would have been great at it, listening a little pest, but he didn't do it. But I thought it would have been a layup layup for Christie. I also think that

Divick's one of these guys. Originally, he was kind of in the Herman Cain, Ben Carson, oddball, crazy simple solutions and gets a little heat in the summer. But he's one of these guys, the more you see him, the more you hate him, which even gets in the way of people who like his bullshit. And it was bullshit. It was endless, disingenuous, stupid bullshit.

I mean, he had that answer about it's all about, you know, the supply. Right. And you're supplying so much bullshit tonight. It just it becomes a self-parody. Lenny, in the interest in the interest of spreading the bullshit, why don't we listen to the clip, Gibbs, that you flagged about Ukraine? Yeah.

Mr. Ramaswamy, are you persuaded by President Zelensky's urgent new plea? Where do you stand on more funding? I'm absolutely unpersuaded. And I'm actually enjoying watching the Ukraine hawks quietly, delicately tiptoe back from their position as this thing has unwound into a disaster. The first half of this race, I was the only person standing for it. Now they're actually quietly coming around to being more cautious as they should. Level with the American people here. Ukraine is not a paragon of democracy.

This is a country that has banned 11 opposition parties. It has consolidated all media into one state TV media arm. That's not democratic. It has threatened not to hold elections this year unless the U.S. forks over more money. That is not democratic. It has celebrated a Nazi in its ranks, the comedian in cargo pants, a man called Zelensky, doing it in their own ranks. That is not democratic.

Let's just be clear. There's bullshit. And then there's Vladimir Putin talking points. Right. Right. Let's turn them. They're straight. This is QAnon bullshit. This is this isn't making stuff up. This isn't being annoying. This is dead letter. Russian disinformation. Way to go, Vivek Ramaswamy. Yeah. Or shit.

I got to say, DeSantis wasn't far away on the Ukraine stuff. He's the peace in our time candidate. He is more elevated than what Vivek or the human fly is doing. But it's bad. Called for the war to end and Europe to do more. Yeah. And we're not going to support it. And, you know, basically just pure appeasement. Yeah. Did you say this already, Gibbs? Zelensky is a Jew. I didn't say it, but yes.

I mean, to call him a Nazi, and obviously even Ramaswamy apparently has some standards because...

His campaign sent out a statement afterwards saying he didn't he he didn't mean to call him a Nazi. Yeah. Like, what does that even mean? Like, I mean, so just like that slipped into my head. I just wanted to take what Vladimir Putin has been saying about Zelensky and how it has celebrated a Nazi in its ranks. Yeah. The comedian in cargo pants called Zelensky.

I don't know. It doesn't sound like an accident. Oh, no. That was a... You know, he's got a lawyer now or four donors. Somebody yelled at him and, you know, probably over his objections, they squeezed out a release. I thought the other kind of amusing thing was the weird sicko thing he's got going with...

with Rana, formerly Romney, the RNC chair, because they were like yelling at each other from the front row, and she's yelling back at him. I think if there's a just world, there will be a special hell with the two of them caught in an elevator together for eternity. You start off, and I don't know if we have that. What I don't want to do is run a string of...

Yeah. All right. Let's do it. Let's just do it because he came out basically with a strategy. He knew the focus, everyone's interest is on Haley and DeSantis because they're the only ones with even a shot at the silver medal. A rare shot. Yeah. Yeah. So let's play this little thing that he engaged in. Coming right out of the box. We've become a party of losers at the end of the day. It was a cancer to the Republican establishment.

Let's speak the truth. I mean, since Ronna McDaniel took over as chairwoman of the RNC in 2017, we have lost 2018, 2020, 2022, no red wave that never came. We got trounced last night in 2023. And I think that we have to have accountability in our party. For that matter, Ronna, if you want to come on stage tonight, you want to look the GOP voters in the eye and tell them you resign, I will turn over my yield my time to you. And frankly, look, the people there are cheering for losing in the Republican Party.

Think about who's moderating this debate. This should be Tucker Carlson, Joe Rogan and Elon Musk. We'd have 10 times the viewership asking questions that GOP primary voters actually care about and bringing more people into our party. You know, Ron is an idiot, but like Trump had nothing to do with any of that. You know, it was the RNC chairwoman who was ordering the red, white and blue bunting. Yeah. Not to mention the fact that.

she was Trump's choice. Right, exactly. Former Jeb Bush supporter, by the way. Remember, she used to call me back then. I'm really pulling for him. I don't know what the Ramaswamy long-term game is here. I don't know whether he's trying to juice a talk radio. Yeah, talk radio or something. Or Fox, you know. Something, but it is all the greatest hits. It is, you know, Tucker Carlson attacking the media, Elon Musk, Joe Rogan. I mean, it's sort of

I feel like prep for him must be this large checklist of things he's got to get said during the debate. And it's like a verbal machine gun to get through them all. But he's had his he had his 15 minutes and a minute, 16 minutes.

He gave most of those gains back. So, Murphy, you touched on this. I was going to ask it. Do you envision, first of all, the next debate is in Tuscaloosa, Alabama, and Trump's campaign announced tonight, Chris Lasavita saying Trump will not be there. So to your point, David, he's not coming to the show.

Do you envision anybody else not being in that debate? Not for the donors and the weird polling stuff, but does somebody drop out between now and then, do you think? Scott's telling people that he wants to stay through Iowa, but people are telling Scott, "Stay through Miami and see if anything happens."

So I'm not positive he'll be there. Christie may get clipped, which is too bad because I'm making a worldwide offer now. Chris, if you will bring a seltzer bottle to the next debate and spray Vivek during a rant, I will donate $75,000 to your super PAC. So just saying toward the debt.

But it's possible they're both not there. It could be the DeSantis and Vivek, though I think he's becoming more borderline because his numbers have gotten. And Haley, you know, big showdown in Alabama, December, which would make sense. They're who's left.

Yeah. That'd be interesting. So you guys think that those two will be the only two on the platform by December? I think there's a chance of it. I know Scott barely got in this time. I think Christie's. And they keep ratcheting up. And you know, Ronna right now is on her texting the staff. How do we rig this thing to screw that little bastard out of another debate appearance? Right.

So, you know, to be determined. Meanwhile, is Doug Burgum still in? I saw he was putting out some hysterical tweet about the smoke-filled rooms. They're not going to hold me down. I will take on the margin of error in these polls and I will surpass it. The only thing that guy got out of the debates was a torn Achilles. Tim Scott got more time tonight than any other candidate.

I can't remember a thing that he said. He was a lot better than normal because he seemed prepped and had stuff to say, but none of it was that meaningful. He's still running for Senate. Yeah. He's a senator. I don't know. Hannah, did we even clip anything from him? No, I went through everything. There wasn't anything notable, but let me go to his campaign Twitter. Is there anything? I think Hannah just appropriately summed up in a way better than we all three of us could.

the impact of the Tim Scott campaign thus far during the primary. He said a lot, and we can't remember. I remember a damn thing. I remember God's green earth, but I didn't hear that on this one, so step forward. I think it was three times in the old one. 18 minutes and actually couldn't come up with anything.

I think he's not long for this. Which is in his interest, by the way. He should drop out now. Well, it means a little bit rather than wait till he's roadkill in Iowa and be yet another zombie staggering into the corpse pile when it doesn't mean anything at all. I saw you on Twitter urging him in that direction. Yeah, yeah. You should have DM'd him. You've got to get everybody's.

Everybody wants DMs from you telling them what to do. Oh, yeah. You're toast. Get out of here. What are you doing? This is embarrassing all of us. Get off my lawn. Yeah. And now, a word from our sponsors. ♪

This was an interesting week, you guys. The backdrop for this debate. Particularly for you, my friend, but we're getting into that. We can talk about that. Yeah, well, let's do election night and the New York Times panic polls. I think those are, and then we can... Well, and CNN as well. Yeah. We haven't buried Glenn Youngkin yet. Oh, true. Oh, yeah, we got to talk about that. Well, that's the election stuff. Last night was, I think because there were some negative polls relative to Biden, I think

There was a great deal of relief on the part of Democrats and despair on the part of Republicans. But this does continue, as was mentioned on the stage, a long string of underperformances by Republicans that began...

with Trump's election, but was really turbocharged by the Dobbs decision. You know, the question has been, will this continue? I think the answer is clearly yes, that this issue has not lost its potency. Right. And the Republican plan to put out the fires to pour kerosene on it.

You know, it's somehow I mean, the new speaker is is security code name is Ayatollah. You know, we've got Sharia law now in the party. You know, it is fascinating, though, because it shows you the dynamics of what's, you know, this situation we're in. Normally, if a president with Biden's numbers had an off term.

The other party would score pretty big and do better. But the Republican brand has committed such suicide between Trump, Dobbs, whatever the hell's going on in the house conference extremism. Yeah. They just keep making it worse. They're getting in the way of a layup success here, which does make the general election kind of a fair fight between two parties that are starting with a lot of political weakness. Uh,

I thought was very telling in those state polls. And by the way, kudos to New York Times and others for starting to focus on key state polls rather than these national, you know, popular vote polls that don't correlate. Before we get to the polls, on these elections, let's just review. You mentioned Governor Youngkin. I don't know exactly whose brilliant idea it was to say, I'm going to try and take over the legislature to...

to show my political potency. And you know what, I'm going to build it all around the issue of abortion and, and reducing the number of weeks women in Virginia can, can have an abortion. Uh, and, uh,

Instead of taking over the state Senate because he already had the House, he lost both of them. Yeah, no. Talk about expectations bungling. It reminds me, a frequent listener and our friend, the great comic and Simpsons writer and a lot of good things, Dana Gold has a great joke about stupidest things said in human history. And the punchline is, watch this. I'm going to scare the president.

Well, this is that kind of thing. I mean, he teed it up. I'm going to bet my life on a bunch of candidates where I'm not on the ballot, so I have limited control, and I'm going to pick an issue that's a nightmare, and I'm going to exceed your wildest expectations.

You know, well, Shazam, predictably, not great. Did you DM him? You know, no, no. I'm not DMing anybody. That's not how he got the strategy? I have had a remarkable number of phone rings where, please swear you never talk to me. Okay. And so I've made my opinion. That's just from his wife. What?

Okay, this is the late night punchy show, as you can tell. I think we should maybe do a thing for the rest of the campaign where somebody says who they would like to DM and what they would tell them. Oh, I like that. I like that. One point on the Virginia stuff and really writ large on the off-year stuff, because in that litany of losses that we talk about and that Ramaswamy talked about and pinned on Rana Romney McDaniel,

The one bright spot in electoral success during the last few years was, if you look back, the election night 2021. Glenn Youngkin wins, right? Lots of momentum in Virginia. Phil Murphy almost loses the governor's race in New Jersey. They pick up a lot of seats. And you saw just in two years how much that withdrew. And again, it really underscores, one,

They were way out there on a lot of stuff that was very, very focused on that time period. Lots of COVID stuff, lots of woke stuff that ended up just really not having the staying power that I think a lot of them thought. And they ran headlong into the Dobbs issue. You know, Bashir gets reelected in Kentucky, a wipeout for Trump.

for pro-life in Ohio and, you know, other big wins around the country, you

another good night to go with 2022 if you're a Democrat. Oh, yeah. Look, they did better than they should have with the generic, and they got a mighty assist from the Republicans. You know, and the amazing thing is the Republicans never learned from this. I mean, we're hitting our head with the same hammer every two years. There are some races that didn't get a lot of attention, but were sort of interesting. There was in Bucks County,

In Pennsylvania, which you guys know is the swingiest of swing counties in the suburbs of Philadelphia, there was this outsized importance attached to school board races. Some wealthy conservative basically backed a slate of very conservative potential school board members, and Democrats swept all three races.

And that actually happened in a bunch of different places. There were Democratic gains in these hotly contested school board races that obviously revolved around kind of books and curriculum and things like that. I think there is. And then the other sort of random fact I want to add to this is in Kentucky, the guy who actually...

led the slate of candidates was the Secretary of State there, who had stoutly resisted the election deniers.

And he finished first in Kentucky. So this is the same cocktail that Republicans choked on in 2022. It's not just abortion, but it's extremism. And you can see the old Republican mix, which had a lot of hits. You saw it in Nikki on the abortion tone.

You saw it in the Kentucky race of Secretary of State. It works. There's such grassroots cultish obsession with Trump populism.

You know, it's right in front of them what to do, but they're clinging to it, which is why the Haley race is such a watershed, because it would reclock the party if she can get the nomination. But as you guys like to say, it's a long shot. I want you to cling to it as long as you can, brother. I'm not clinging. I don't want to extinguish the last stash of hope. I smell. You've done enough extinguishing this month, my friend. I...

I'm telling you, there's loose vote. We'll see what happens. And the stakes keep getting up. And Trump gets getting worse. Worse even within the Republican world. Crazy old man. You DMed yourself and you've come up with a plan. Oh, I do every day. This election night, I think, calmed down the Democratic massive panic.

off those New York Times polls. But if I were the Democrats, I wouldn't stop panicking. No, they shouldn't. Because they still have fundamental problems over there at the top of the ticket. And he wasn't on the ballot this time. The presidential race is simpler. All right. Hold that thought. We're going to take a short break. And now a word from our sponsors.

The Times poll were a battleground states. And then yesterday came the CNN poll that was a national poll.

That almost completely mirrored the numbers in the Times and in the CNN poll. And this is the concern that only 25% said that Biden had the stamina and the sharpness to serve as president. He is the president. So that's quite a statement. Trump was deemed...

Even though he's out there saying batshit crazy things every day,

and is drafting up a plan to use the federal government to purge all his enemies and so on. Even though that is all true, he's had 53%. There were a series of other things, including the demographics that were reflected in both polls, where Biden, who won people under 30, voters under 30, with 65% of the vote, is running even with Trump.

In both these battleground states and nationally, there were 22% of black voters in the CNN poll were for Trump. It was 12% in 2020. Hispanic voters were, I don't remember off the top of my head the exact number, but pretty close to tie. Biden won that vote with 65%.

in 2020. So there were all kinds of unsettling. It's not that people love Trump. They don't. His numbers are pretty abysmal too. But in a contrast with Biden right now, there's some really, really concerning numbers in there. And I actually mentioned this the other day. What?

You did. You shouldn't DM yourself. I wonder why I'm looking at you on Zoom now with that disguise on. I couldn't figure out why the hell you have the beard. I grew a mustache. Listen, I'm not, you know, I have no regrets about raising this because I do think that he needs to think about where he is and if he feels he's the best option for the party. He may well be in that we're so late that

It's late to start a process if he were not to run. But if he's full speed ahead, then...

Then run full speed. Right, right. Get a campaign. I will say in the data, the one good news is it is not the hardest thing in politics to get an incumbent Democratic president with a good history in the community to get the black vote back down to 11 percent or worse for the Republican. So there's a lot of loose vote that's kind of protesting him out of frustration, which is real. But a real campaign ought to be able to get a lot of it back.

that said, they haven't shown us any skill for that yet.

You know, they need to really rethink it. Biden, you know, his mantra in 2020 was in the primaries was, I guess, in the generals, don't compare me to the almighty, compare me to the alternative. When is the comparison going to begin? When are they going to start running aggressive on the attack comparative campaign? I mean, Trump's giving them fodder all the time. He does have a record of

that they can attack. Yeah, I agree with that, but I don't think it's enough because people know and hate Trump. A generic Democrat beats Trump by eight or more points. There's a Biden problem and they got to do something about that too. Well, I think they do, but that's why I think it has to be comparative, Mike. You take an issue like pharmaceuticals, for example, where Biden won big victories that Democrats have been trying to win for decades.

in terms of lowering the cost of insulin and some other prescription drugs. Trump had four years, did diddly squat. Republicans want to repeal the law that made that happen. You know, I think that you just have to start running a campaign. Well, I think there's a fresh front they haven't opened, which means they could go to find it, which is motive. Whose side is Joe on for all his...

slowness to improve your life versus who does Trump care about? Trump only cares about Trump. And I think they can sell some tickets by opening that front in a big, loud way. That's the root of it. I mean, if you look at a few of these other numbers, I pull these up as before we started the independence.

15% of independents think the economy is either excellent or good. 15%. Yeah. And they think Trump's better to run the economy, which is death. I'll get to that in a second. But when asked about the issues, and I thought they asked this question in an interesting way, they asked sort of societal issues, meaning abortion, guns, democracy, climate, versus the economy.

Overall, that number was 29% was more focused on societal issues and 57 for the economy. Independence, it's even greater, 26% societal versus 62 economy. It's interesting, Democratic voters, and this is both a good thing and a bad thing, Democratic voters are 47% on the societal issues.

mostly because they think they're giving him more credit for the economy. So he's getting the Democratic vote on democracy and abortion. And lastly, to your point, Murphy, who do you trust more on the economy? And they did a comparative 59 Trump Biden 37. So he's got to make he's got to make that comparative around the economy. Whose side are you on? Get back to being Scranton Joe.

Stop talking about the fact that America is back when people just don't feel it. We've been saying that for a year here, but I think they're only tuned into AM radio. So we got to get them into the modern era. Yeah, let's see. Let's see. I'm damn ready. They've blocked me. I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure that's safe to say. Yeah.

You know, Quiznos is always hiring, David. Don't worry. It's a hot economy due to Joe Biden. There are a lot of jobs out there. More on this, I'm sure.

But we are being told by Hannah. We've reached the hour, the magic hour. Reached our limit. So we're being blocked and told to go. Wow. What a debate. We'll be back next week to chew over the next week in politics because now it's finally getting interesting. Yeah, man. We're into that place that you said we'd get.

Not necessarily with the result that you said we'd get, but... Well, the beginning of the end here. We're not at the end yet. Let's see. We're meeting January and we'll see. It'll be happening or it won't. A few more chapters in this book, Axe. Just keep reading. The Murphy Tombstone. It's not over. Timing is everything. We call it the big finish for a reason.

All right, boys. I'm going to bed. Yeah, absolutely. We're going to sell some stuff because we decided that we would stay up being younger and hardier here and let you get your sleep because we know you're living on the moon. And on the West Coast. No, I'm in New York. I'm sitting in New York. Oh, you are. I am. It's okay. I'll do it for you, Axe. I love you.

All right. Thanks, brother. I appreciate it. I need it right now. I'll see you guys. You told the truth, man. Never apologize for that. It's what everybody knows and everybody's thinking. I know you're not. I know you're not. All right. Time to pull the plug before we get embarrassed here. All right. Good night, guys. Good night.