Vladdy Knows Best (with Rahm Emanuel)
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Hey, pull up a chair. It's Hacks on Tap with David Axelrod and Mike Murphy. ...prices have reached an all-time high. What's your... Which is what? Egg prices have reached an all-time high. Well, there's a clue. Before I ever got here, it was at an all-time... Remember, I've been here for three weeks.

And when you saw the inflation numbers, I've been here for three weeks. I have had nothing to do with inflation. This was caused by Biden. I had four years of virtually no inflation.

So I'm just taking over. But I'll tell you what, this country has made more progress in the last three weeks than it's made in the last four years. And we're respected again as a country. Humpty Trumpty sat on a wall. You know, you live by eggs, David, you die by eggs. I love it. Yeah, that was him outside the plane. I think maybe down in Daytona on Sunday before the race got delayed by rain and he left.

He did take a lap around the track. But Rahm Emanuel is with us. Back from Tokyo, back in circulation, free, unchained, able to speak his mind. So happy to have you here, brother. I did test the limits of diplomatic immunity. It only goes so far. Yes.

It's unbelievable that you survived all those years without the State Department recalling you. Not just survived, David. Japan is still an ally until the last hour, okay? Yes. I tell you, people in Hawaii are breathing a big sigh of relief now that you've landed back in the U.S. But truthfully, I think you were a very good ambassador. I followed Japanese politics. I kept an eye on you.

Good job. Who are we sending now? Like Trump's dentist or something? Do we know? There is Mr. Klaas, George Klaas, who was ambassador in the first term to Portugal. He has now been nominated by the president.

All right. Gotcha. I would like to say one thing. Thanks for the therapy. Let me get this off my chest. That's right. There'll be a bill, but go ahead. Yeah, it's covered. There was a nine-month—I was a forward chief of staff, former mayor, former congressman. I had a nine-month surety review. They went through everything before they officially nominated me. And he was nominated, and the president wasn't even sworn in yet.

And I can't imagine it was a background check. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's that's rampant throughout the administration. But what I'm just trying to get my arms around the fact that they spent nine months looking at you, looked at everything you've said, everything you've done, and they still let you go. How did that happen? My favorite, my favorite of the whole review, let alone that I had the highest security that a president can give anybody.

was they said, hey, we realize that you have old property in Montana. There are no neighbors. And I go, well, you've discovered the reason you go to Montana, I said. So I had to come up with people they could talk to in Montana to check whether when I was fishing...

I would say that I'm going to sell America out for a Croatian sparkling wine someday for an event or something. It's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen. But anyway, thank you for that moment.

In any case, you're welcome. The but I want to talk about, I mean, what Trump said there, which is we've done more in three weeks than than they did. We've made more progress in three weeks than they have in four years. And America's respect again. So, I mean, this is the show, right? This is the show that he's trying to put on right now. Joe Biden's the backboard.

Yes. I mean, this is like after four somnolent years of Joe Biden in which government was frozen and nothing happened. I'm here. I am the whirling dervish of activity. I'm making things happen. I'm knocking things out of the way. I'm the force of nature you voted for. And I have to say,

You know, we'll talk about all the crap that he's doing and what the implications of some of it are. But it's it's a pretty good counterpoint. I mean, he is he is drafting off of Joe Biden and public impressions of Joe Biden right now. And it's keeping him afloat. If you look at the data or you just look, I mean, you know, he is playing the energizing bunny.

Energizing buddy versus what we perceived as basically the inertia during the Biden administration. And he is drafting off of that. And I don't as of all three of us, I mean, it's a craftsman of politics and images and a storyline or a narrative.

I don't fault them for that, what they're doing. I mean, I fault them for the results and the background, as you said, we'll get to that. But from a pure political standpoint, whether it's there or the football game or the Super Bowl game or the Army Navy game, he has the results will be damaging and we can talk about that. But but but for me, your kind of narrative Uber narrative, he's there. They're right on target.

Well, yeah, he's doing the show, the anti-Biden, the whirling dervish. The thing is, there's no election in 90 days. You know, he's also grave digging on policy and more inflation and all that stuff, which will come in and swallow him up in the midterms, I think. So it's one of these things. The sugar calories are great, but to what end? So, you know, everybody's always flooding the zone, et cetera, et cetera. This is where my whole thing, we can talk about the price of Greenland or we can talk about the price of groceries.

And we're here for groceries. And you can, it's not like you're defensive, bring him down to where his weak spot is. I could not agree more. I mean, you know, Ram, you and I talked about this the other day, but, you know, when he's talking...

When the Gaza thing happened, the instinct of a lot of Democrats was to run right to the violation of international law, the violation of human rights, not to say he's more interested in developing condos, luxury condos in the Middle East instead of housing in the Midwest.

You know, he's worried more about the cost. You know, what about the rents? What about mortgages here? That's what he was elected to do. And I think that that's where Democrats have to become a lot more focused and disciplined on the stuff that's

that matters in people's lives. And the reason that he got elected, they need to hold him accountable for the fundamental promise he made, which is, I'm going to make your life more affordable. I'm going to make your life better. Everything he's doing is either focused on stuff that is completely outside the point or will make it worse. The shiny, well, we'll get to the worst part of the shiny Bible, whether it's, you know, Musk or, you know, the Gaza Strip is going to be the Riviera of the Mediterranean.

I don't want to replay a tape here, but in 2005-2006, I introduced a bill called the American Parity Act. For every hospital you're going to build in Iraq, you've got to build one in the United States. For every school you build in Iraq, you've got to build one in the United States. And to me, this was a slightly different replay, which is, what do you mean you're going to develop 200,000 units of housing in Gaza Strip? Well, we have a housing crisis. People can't get a down payment for a home here.

And so to me, that was beyond the argument that I think this is dangerous, that the fact that you allowed Iran out of the box, you drove a wedge between us and our Arab allies who are basically encircling Iran and delegitimizing it in the region. You are not dealing with the housing problem in America. And that's our domestic argument.

So, but look, I'm with you guys on the question is the price of eggs and real life. But I think the Dems, rather than fall for the frame of every question, can you believe what he did in Gaza? After all the security implications and the usual pearl clutching, they need a blanket theory of him. And I think too often they're like, he's an evil genius who's going to undermine democracy. That's a loser. He's not an evil genius. He's a bloodbath.

blithering idiot, and they've had the Keystone cops. So ridicule him and counterattack on he's missing the boat on what counts. Yeah, I'm not sure, Mike. I'm not sure. I mean... It looks like incompetent chaos, because it is. Yeah. Well, I think what every president...

is elected in response to the last president. I've talked about it here and elsewhere before. People choose the remedy to what they have. So right now, the pure energy is providing that. But ultimately, they didn't just elect him for that. They elected him for

disastrous outcomes. And there are all kinds of things going on here that I think are going to be lead to disastrous outcomes. If I may, as the guest on the show. Yeah, you need a jaws of life to get into this thing. Go ahead. All right. We'll pretend that that's the case, but go ahead. Oh, here's the thing. You got to start where people are. I think we all three would agree that like

One, as in the CBS poll, they don't think he's focused on inflation. That's the one big negative in that number. And that's where Democrats should go. Second is they also believe certain things about his character

Yes, on strength, but also his vanity. And I would say every one of the things he's doing is about his own vanity and not about your own process or your own success in your family. This whole thing. And that's what I'd be honest as somebody. What Putin is here doing is using his vanity against him. Yeah, right. And he's an expert at that. Here, we'll give you one American hostage we illegally sent and sit down and just take what's in the news as we're taking this.

The Russians are calling this a negotiations with the United States because it makes Putin the superpower. And they love it. Now, the United States just came out of there. They said, we're mediating. Well, where's the meeting with the Ukrainians? Now, that's not what this is a vanity project for Donald Trump. And it's going to hurt America. It's going to be an on goal.

And that's what's going on here. And I, as you got to start though, where people think about him and there are vulnerabilities and then drive each point to those points of vulnerability to take him down.

That's how you do this. And we it's not again, like, as we said, it's not about the rules of law and the international demand. The fact is, it's not that has nothing to do with the cost of housing in America. And until you focus on that, you're not allowed to talk about Gaza Strip. Yeah, you still have to fight those other fights. But it's a question of what you're communicating. Right. You know, to to to people. I want to switch you guys to one element of this, which is the Musk project and all of these issues.

You know, across the government, there's a purge going on. A lot of it is decapitating, you know, the upper echelons of all of these agencies. And I guess my question is, and I'm

What happens when you decapitate these agencies? I don't think Democrats. I think it's a mistake to suggest. And you and I both have been there, Mike. You've been around this all your career.

You should always be on the side of reform. You should always be on the side of streamlining and so on. I mean, there's no doubt. I mean, I've stared and you've stared government inertia in the face. And it's really something to behold when, you know, the bureaucratic inertia, when they dig their feet in and want to preserve their terrain. So you should always be willing to fight that fight.

But there are also actually things that the government does that people rely on. And the question is, what are the risks when he, for example, what are the risks for Dems by defending bureaucracy? But also, what is the risk to Trump? You don't want to defend bureaucracy. You want, one, Trump to own Musk because Musk is going to create political trouble. He's unfavorable in California. I just saw a statewide survey of 63%.

But on the other hand, the FAA has 50,000 employees. It can live without 300. I think the debate is, is there any brains behind how they're doing this? No. They're sending interns in to randomly cut nuclear bomb guards. And now they're getting on the cell phones to get them back. I mean, it's the Keystone Cops thing. It's not the cutting is bad. The thing is, like, let's take this, the recent thing that we're doing that

him going in on the IRS, him going in. One of the things we know, the American people do not protect their privacy. They don't want good companies and they don't want the government. They surely don't want somebody, a billionaire collecting data who's building an AI center. And I think we should be about privacy of the individuals rather than about, well, you didn't get a background check, what permits it? No, it's about protecting the American people. As it relates to that,

They're firing on FDA, et cetera. And I would be focused purely on the safety of our food and the safety of our drinking water. And the very people that are responsible for protecting you from bad drugs and bad food are now basically the cops been taken off the beat. Well, that's true. But and that's not it's not just on it's not just on food safety. It's on every it's on. You can choose, David. I mean, remember this.

They got the White House microphone and they got the gap. So you don't got a bucket to spit in and a window to throw it out. And so you've got to pick and choose. And to me, you you have illnesses that are coming out of food. This food is constantly getting recalled, et cetera. And you're firing the very people that are trying to protect you. You're also and I also think about protecting people's privacy. The last thing I think all three of us can agree on this. You want is somebody knowing your family's medical record when it comes to trying to get insurance.

The idea that you're giving a guy who's building an AI system access to the greatest treasure trove of data, which is what the federal government has, is insane. Right. The Democrats just need to learn like Trump to speak moron. He fired five baby food inspectors. Yes. You know, one sentence of baby food inspector. Jesus Christ. Or Elon Musk is going to read your credit scores.

You know, your health records. You're exactly where I'm at. Real simple and real sticky. Describe the jobs, not the people. More about the results, less about the rules. Exactly. I mean, this is about outcomes. And my question about the risk to Trump is I do believe

that at some point the wheels do come off, you know, the, there will be consequences of the things that they're doing. And at some point they can't live off of Biden at some point, you know, uh, Sean Duffy, the, uh, the, uh, transportation secretary today put out a broad side about Pete Buttigieg, you know, accusing him of, of, of failing to upgrade the, uh,

the, the, uh, you know, air safety system and so on. Uh, I think partly they did that because he's one of the guys who might run for president in 2028, but, uh, it's also a way to cover up for their own. Now they're firing a whole bunch of people in the FAA. They, as you point out, Mike, they don't know who they're firing. That's the problem is monkeys with chainsaws. You know, but can I say one thing, David, to the reform thing that you mentioned?

This is dear to me since it was like the second bill I introduced was back in 2003, which was reforming the FASA form, which is used for middle class families to apply financial assistance for college for their kids. I think the Biden administration missed a huge opportunity. The person that put together that FASA form, it screwed up two, three years of people getting their kids to college. You should have fired him.

You should have not accepted his resignation. You should have been in there with boxes in the U-Haul yourself. And this is an example where we are progressive. We have become a party of not just the status quo, of preserving. That is nuts. And it's not, first of all, it's not true to who we are. And second of all, everything is not worth preserving. Okay? And whether it was the FASA form that the government messed up,

and screwed up middle-class families, or whether in fact the permitting process around the United States government for new projects takes decades. We

We should be about defending. I actually think a party that believes government has an important role to play has a responsibility to be the agent of reforming government, challenging the bureaucracy and making it more responsive to people. And this will get me hate mail, but I don't care. Yeah. You've got a big mailbox for that. Maybe, maybe from us. I don't think so. At least not for Murphy. Yeah.

If you go back in the last 30 years, when was the highest score for people believing in government as an affirmative force? And it came on the heels of both welfare reform and the balanced budget that happened within a year and a half of each other. And showing that you can reform. Now, put aside whether you like this piece of the welfare reform or that piece of the balanced budget.

That restored people's confidence after a generation of the government is the enemy from Ronald Reagan as a message, restored people's confidence. And we have to, as a party, at the gubernatorial level where we have a lot of governors and at the mayoral level, show that we're a party of reform, that we're willing to tame this beast and make it a better performing party.

When we're not doing that, we've given up our mantle of reform at a critical time politically. I told you Merck would agree with this. The optic. Well, no, of course, because you always want to be on the side of change and you want to not be the, to use an old new phrase, you know, the guardians of the failed status quo. The other problem is optical. I mean, if a magic hobo landed and said, Murphy, one thing with my magic wand, could I do the fixed democratic party?

I would get Schumer and a whole bunch of the Jurassic leadership to resign and have a lot of special elections to let new talent battle their way to the top, to look like the party of change, not the party of orthopedic shoes and, and, you know, continuing. Not that those are bad, but no, no, no. In fact, we have an ad for them coming up both as, as fans and users, but no, but the point is the Democrats, they fight like Muppets and they, they,

They vibe like sob sisters. And so that just gives the whole playing field of change to Trump. There are people in the party who know better and are approaching this differently. But you're right. I mean, Schumer...

is a kind of vampire-like presence on the screen. And it's not working. It's not working there. And he doesn't look like a guy who's connected to these people. No, that rally with the one guy shaking the cane and Schumer taking off his glasses because now we're getting serious. God, it was awful. You should put an RNC disclaimer on that and run it. Okay, let's take a break right here for a word from our sponsor, and we'll be right back.

You know, Axe, we are both people of incredible passion. I believe deeply in American democracy and good old-fashioned Burkean conservatism to save this great country. You worship at the altar of the Helix mattress, so tell me more, because I think there have been some developments. I do. I mean, in fairness, when I lie on my Helix mattress, I think about those issues as well. I

I don't want to make it all about the mattress, but I got a Helix mattress when we started talking about Helix mattresses here, and I tried it out of obligation, and I honestly did. It's the best mattress I've ever had. It comes vacuum-wrapped. You open it up. Over a few hours, it comes full-size, and it is the most comfortable mattress I've ever had because they test you or they give you a survey in advance, and they know—

You know, they ask you questions about your sleeping habits and preferences. And they have a series of mattresses, one of which fits, you know, your type. These mattresses are so comfortable. So I am a genuine convert to Helix.

mattresses. This is not BS from the host. No, I can vouch for that. This is the real deal. Ask anybody who's been to a cocktail party with Axelrod. So, David, what do you think is going to happen to democracy? I don't know, but let me talk to you about the Helix mattress. Cut to an hour later. This is why I never get invited anywhere anymore. I spend more time on my mattress than I'd like to. And you're always asleep. It's a win. It's a win. Just go to helixsleep.com slash hacks.

And the world of Helix is open to you. I agree. But I want to say on this one premise about energy, etc. But as somebody who's not pulled punches about the party, I'm ready to have whatever discussion we want about the party.

But I'm ready. I want to know when we're going to have a discussion about the fact that a great deal of the Republican Party have put their manhood in a lockbox. Well, we're going to have that discussion. We're going to have that discussion in a second here. But I think he's trying to change the—you must still be thinking about the Senate race because you're trying to deflect from the Schumer discussion. No, but, you know, I'm coming off of a thing that—I don't have a problem pointing where our warts are as a party and what we've got to take.

and where we failed in the last four years versus what we've got to do to rebuild. But it's also shutting down a conversation. You have replies, you and I have talked about this, Senator Agnes King said there was a private vote. These nominees would not get 20 votes. And the fact is, on national security issues and on other major public health issues, somebody that took on, a Democrat, took on many a public sector union,

And I was cheered on, oh, you showed them your straight, etc. Where are these Republicans? Well, you cheer on other people. You basically took your manhood and you put it on the lockbox. You know where they are. You know where they are. Yeah, they're cowering under their desks like the gutless cowards they are. Because free Senate haircuts and getting reelected are more important to them than the country. The only two people that have put their manhood in a lockbox...

are Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski. And that's a telling sign of the Republican Senate caucus. Yeah. And even Collins has been pretty wobbly. Yeah. Well, listen, don't, don't go to, I know, I know, I know Susan Collins is a friend of yours, but I got to tell you something. She's been a big disappointment here. Yes. She voted against Hegseth, but you know, I remember when, when, you know, she took assurances on Roe versus Wade from, uh, Kavanaugh, uh, she, uh, uh,

you know, she voted for Kennedy. She, she voted for, uh, uh, Tulsi Gabbard. Uh, she voted for, she, you know, we'll see what she does on cash Patel. So, I mean, yes, great, good. She voted against Pete Hegseth. Terrific. Uh,

but you know, I don't know. I don't want to, I don't want to go overboard here. The fact of the matter is she's running for reelection and she's doing what everybody who's wants to run for reelection is doing. She's basically cowering to the white house. All the only thing that's going to move these cowards. And you know, it stuns me cause I'm from the old school Republican party where there was some backbone, but all my guys are gone now. Romney was the last one. Uh, the, uh,

Midterms, when they start losing elections, if the Dems do well in the midterms, which they're historically almost incapable of screwing up, but I always give hope that they will, and the Dems do better than the lousy outcome they're expected in the Senate, and Trump can help with both of these things, and he sure started.

Then they start fearing for their own asses, which apparently is the only thing they care about. So the second half of Trump could be different. But right now, they're the kitten caucus. They just roll over no matter what, and it is stunning to me. But...

Nothing, I guess, stuns me anymore because we lived through Trump won with a lot of the same stuff, but it's even worse now. The other problem is none of the old Republican pros are around Trump. So now it's all children and interns saying, sure, let's new Canada. It was interesting. You know, Mitch McConnell now, not the leader, not running for reelection. He's Jefferson. Yeah, he's actually, and Trump, of course, denounced him and

ridiculed him and talked about what a bad leader he was. I'm thinking here's Donald Trump. Who's relying on the Supreme court to get out of jail for a firm of it. Yeah. And, and that Supreme court actually was produced by Mitch McConnell in ways that honestly, I think were a bad for the country, uh, because you know, they, he tore down some of the guardrails, uh, there, but he produced the Supreme court that Trump is, is, is, is counting on. And so, and, and Trump, uh,

and Trump, uh, ridicules him. I want to ask you guys about this situation in New York, uh, with Eric Adams. He's got to step up, man. It's time. You think the governor should throw him out? Yeah. So we should just say everybody, I'm sure our listeners, uh, most of them been following this, but Eric Adams was indicted. Uh,

and, you know, bribery and related charges in New York. The Trump administration ordered the prosecutors to drop the case. A series of prosecutors, most of whom were quite conservative, rebelled against that and resigned, seven of them. And it came out in the course of this that in the memo that circulated,

They were told, well, we need, you know, we need Adams help on immigration. And they are keeping the indictment alive as a as a cudgel over him. Now, the question is, his top aides resign Adams in protest. Should the governor who has the power, Governor Hochul, should she throw him out? You say yes. I say no.

Okay, well, let me explain why you're wrong. Do I get a vote? Yeah, yeah, you're the tiebreaker. Yeah, yeah, we're going to appeal the case to Judge Emanuel here, and then you can rule. Well, wait a second, hold on, let me put my black robes on, because that's what I said. No, I'm with Axra. She should not take the vote. All right, then I'm switching over to Murphy. She's going to own him now, and she's going to own the principle of what Trump's doing. She's got to step up. No, that may be good for her.

But it's not the right thing to do. And I'm not sure that's good for the Democratic Party. I agree. I agree with this. That's a second why. And I think there'd be a big backlash, honestly. Why is it not her job?

to use her power in this extraordinary situation where you've got a mayor who's living at the grace of the Trump administration, bending the Justice Department to stop a criminal prosecution that even the mayor's own closest staffers have walked out. Murphy, you're such a goddamn liberal. No, I'm idealistic. I'm idealistic, too. Well, not in this case. What's your argument? No, no, I think, Eric, I don't think that people being removed by fiat...

uh, is the way to go. There's an election in New York this year and voters will have a chance to throw his ass out, which they will. And that's the way it should happen. Uh, and I think it seems fundamentally at a time when we're all talking about democracy, it feels fundamentally anti-democratic for the governor to throw out, uh, the

But he's not just the mayor. I mean, he is being propped up by the Trump administration from a very obvious criminal case. Now, I know you guys have been in Chicago a long time, but the rest of us don't really like municipal corruption in the largest and most powerful mayor's office in America. Mike's from Detroit. Yeah.

Yeah. Murph, we we our numbers start with seven zeros before we get excited. OK, this was like a plane ticket, an upgrade. Yeah, this is a parking ticket by Chicago standards. Yeah. Yeah. As I said to the state, we think I'm going to get sold. I have a Chicago rule. It starts with seven zeros. And that's why you're not selling. I'm not selling out America for Croatian sparkling wine.

Yeah, the Japanese don't have enough money. So much of what happened here relative to Trump has emanated from New York. You know, the indictment, the sort of the seeming... I mean, I think...

You know, I think some of the things that have done relative to his business were warranted. The indictment, he clearly broke the law, but would that case have been brought against anybody else? And the way politicians have talked about those cases who then brought the... They just were... They were a gift to Donald Trump. He would not be president without them. And I think there would be a reaction to this as well. But, you know, I mean, listen, I think...

What the bigger issue is, the one you're raising, Murphy, that really, really is concerning, which is this Justice Department is very clearly now a political organ of the White House. They are going to do the political chores for the White House. And I'm as appalled by that as you are. I'm just not sure that the governor by fiat throwing the mayor out because she thinks there's some political advantage to her is the way to do it. Well, yeah, don't give her a false motive, though.

You know, it could be a political calculation. It always is. But it also could be the right thing to do. What do you guys think she will do? You're going to have an election tomorrow.

And I think there's nothing better for the Democrats to watch. I think the mayor is going to get a spanking like he's never seen. And that's going to be important in a sense politically for the party. When you are advocating for what's good for her, it wouldn't be good for not just the democratic process that David talked about. It's not good for the Democrats because he will get a spanking. It will be a lesson to Democrats about this. Then the second piece about what David said. Yeah.

I literally look at the FBI and look at the Justice Department today, and I think J. Edgar Hoover's stockings are getting wrinkled. I've never—he's going to be, like, embarrassed about, like, he was a piker compared to what's going on over here. The idea that they said, we are not going to take a criminal case because of this policy over here that has nothing to do with that, I—

literally Bobby Kennedy and J. Edgar Hoover were like, we were like small fires compared to this. It's incredible. And it's being done in daylight. No, it is awful. I'll make one more point on her.

By acting, by not removing him, I think she endorses his behavior and the Trump Justice Department's. Democrats need some strong people to do strong things right now. And sitting back and saying, oh, let him have his term. No, no, no. He's bad. Knock him out. The strong thing is to say, you know, I want the voters to have the opportunity to decide this issue. Cop out. That's what I'd say. Actually, slightly different.

twist on David. I would say, look, I know what the popular thing to do is, and then dress it up as a strength. Mike Murphy may think this is a good thing to do, and I might get some kudos from him, but I'm not in it for love from Mike Murphy. Hey, listen, Democrats, I'm a fighting general. But what will she do? Predict. It looks to me like she's winding up to do it. It's not certain, but she's doing all the theatrics today.

Yeah. It does feel that way to me. Yeah. Now I will say she's in a primary, uh, or will be against Richie Torres, uh,

You know, who is a congressman from the Bronx who's a pretty gifted orator. Yes. And very smart. Yeah. And it'll be interesting to see what kind of backlash there will be for. I mean, I'm sure they're trying to do the political calculations as to the risks and rewards of that. That would be unusual. Let him run on. She shouldn't have fired the corrupt mayor.

It frames the whole primary. I mean, I'd love that race if I were her. What's going to happen, Rom? You were a mayor. You know a lot of governors. What do you think she'll do? I think she'll do exactly what the TV's are showing. Yeah. I think she'll do exactly that. Okay, gentlemen. We will be back in a minute, but we have to pay a few bills. Murphy, you know my...

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So listen, I want to go back to the thing that we started before. There was this meeting this morning. The U.S., Marco Rubio and Waltz and the president's sort of itinerant negotiator were in a room with Lavrov, the foreign minister of Russia and top Russian aides.

It's talking about Ukraine. Ukraine was not there, which has to send a chill down the spine of every Ukrainian, given the fact that Donald Trump said when Ukraine, when Russia rolled in, that it was genius for for Putin to to do that. But I wanted to play a little tape of Marco Rubio at the beginning of that invasion when he was in the Senate.

We should recognize the Ukrainian government, even if it happens to be in exile or in some rump portion of the country, and we should help them. We should help them to help those insurgents that remain behind the lines, who are going to continue to fight Russia for months and years to come until their country is free. These are tough people. They will fight, and we should do everything we can to help them. And they're not asking for American soldiers. They're just asking for the weapons to fight for themselves and their families.

So Marco Rubio in that same interview was really tough on Putin and his motives and his motives relative to the rest of Europe and so on. And now he's the point man, Murphy, for what looks to be a potential lay down for Russia in this war. The guiding principle of the Trump administration, send a eunuch for a eunuch's job.

You know, he's just there to send a eunuch to Munich. Can I say what I think is most revealing about, not most revealing, but it tells the story. The Russians said, we're coming in for a negotiation. Walls and Rubio walk out and they said, we're here to mediate.

Well, negotiation and mediate are not the same role. Russia's always wanted to negotiate with the United States because that gives them their superpower status. That was their objective, one of the strategic objectives, and that Europe is second-tier, second-class citizens. And mediation, which tells you how the United States is fooling themselves, you would have that same meeting then if you use the shuttle diplomacy, which is what Walsh used. Right, with all parties.

they get a phone call on the way to the airport you know with a basic they said they sent they're sending keith kellogg yeah who's supposed to be his representative he's going to talk to ukraine and he said they're sending the secretary of state the national security advisor and their top negotiator to meet alone with the russians what does that tell you about here's what i would do if i were the europeans now they're all focused on the troops or what i would say look

They just raised, Russia just said, having now won, no NATO, we get to keep the Donbass, and we get America as our equal status, etc. We're about to get no sanctions also. They just announced that they want to have a bigger discussion about all of Europe. If I were the Europeans, I said, great, we're coming. We're going to go sit to that negotiations. Because they need to get at the table because the United States team needs adult supervision.

And I would say while it's fraught that you would be Europe against both the United States and Russia, which is ironic position, it would actually get Europe at the table and make sure that not only is Ukraine's sovereignty not on the table, America is pulling up the minerals, etc. But if you want to have a discussion that's more because now Putin realized he's won all the things he wanted to go there.

If I were in Europe, I would say we're ready for that discussion. No, I agree. I agree. It's the best leverage for them to be at the table and slow it all down. We have to say you want a bigger discussion. We're in.

Yeah, yeah, because right now the Russians are literally, they're doing funny dances. They are so happy. Their number one goal since, you know, the Second World War is split up NATO and screw up the Atlantic Alliance, which, of course, Trump is a huge asset. Since Joseph Stalin. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Since day one. And an American president achieved Joseph Stalin's wet dream.

No, it's unbelievable. They can't believe it. I swear to God, I wanted to write a stage play of Trump from Putin's point of view. Like, this has to be a trick. Can't be this easy. You know, because they're serving every Russian foreign policy goal. We even gave him bilateral negotiations without concession. We just went, you know, Trump is the weakest American president, not the strongest in his actions. Forget David for a second.

We did a China deal, quote unquote, there's no increase in a single soybean China bought. And Trump called it the greatest trade deal. Kim got no military exercise in the United States and the Republic of Korea for nothing. Yeah, I agree. He's the worst negotiator because his only goal is vanity.

I agree. He's the weakest negotiator. He just trades concession for flashballs. Speaking of the Europeans, we should listen to this clip, which I don't have, but I will send to you. But you guys both heard of the vice president in addressing the Europeans over over the weekend. The threat that I worry the most about vis-a-vis Europe is not Russia. It's not China. It's not any other external actor.

And what I worry about is the threat from within, the retreat of Europe from some of its most fundamental values, values shared with the United States of America.

If you're Europeans, you got to be really recalibrating here as to what the future is, you know. You know, everybody on this, you know, is like talking about where he didn't meet with Olaf Scholz or, you know, they said that, you know, our democracy that we should, you know, is a bigger threat than China and Russia. This is from a crowd from January 6th that tried to overturn an election by trying to threaten the vice president's own public's health.

and safety. They're going to rupture us about democracy. You just let out of prison people that kill police officers and you're coming here. Yeah. No, I mean, you could see it. The Europeans were, they went batshit and the Germans. Yeah, no, they have every right. This is unbelievable. This would be like a German chancellor coming here and saying, Hey, you know, the clan, let's not be so quick. Maybe they ought to run for every American voice should be heard. So let's bring this back to the hacky question, which is,

Does does this matter to Americans? Is this in the short run? I mean, we are seeing a major realignment here. I mean, Trump says, I'm going to sit down with Putin and she and we're going to sort of work everything out, you know, return to sort of expansionism where, you know, and and spheres of influence, which you just grab the countries around you that you support.

think should be part of or the territory that you think should be part of your country. I mean, we're really going way back in history here, but

The consequences of that are not immediate and people are very focused at home. No, it's not the price of eggs, but the chaos clown show stuff builds over time. But yeah, but, but does it look like a clown show to people? I don't know. I think it will in time when all of a sudden in time, I'm saying right now, first of all, what do you say? I mean, it's, I'm for the price of eggs versus the price of, uh, you know, the price of groceries versus price of Greenland. But that said,

I actually do think this has consequences because the last thing the United States public, and you can see this vote by Putin's number and China's number. The last thing they want to see is the president of the United States emboldening and empowering our adversaries and diminishing and endangering our allies. And the fact that he's going to sit equal to Putin and Xi

and empower them in the game of the sphere of influence. Our big game is Greenland, Panama, and Canada as the 51st state. We're not going to get any of those three, but we're going to have empowered the very people who said up front they're going to bury the United States. He is in bed with the people who have been explicitly

that their whole intention is to bury and destroy the United States and the world that they lead. That is what they said, and he has now decided, and arguing, which pillow do you want, which comforter do you need? He is in bed, and he's putting the American, and he's putting American servicemen and women at service of Russia. Well, and he's not going to get what he's saying he'll get.

That's not going to get the 50. He's not going to get greenlit. He's going to fail. Yeah. What's it? What'll be an interesting exercise is because he's always about branding, whatever happens, how is he going to brand these things as a bigger thing? So shut up a second, Ron. The biggest thing here is people are tired of war. We've spent, you know, we went through two decades of it.

They don't want to be involved around the world. And there is this fantasy that we can just turn the world over to

to Russia and China, uh, and allow them, uh, to be aggressive, uh, toward their neighbors. And that somehow we won't be impacted by that, that somehow we won't be drawn in that somehow we can just drop the drop. It's more on stuff. And over time it can't sustain. You're right. So here's how it all gets back to the price of eggs. Well,

Whenever the like Denmark won't give us Greenland for Trump bonds or whatever. All right, I'll put a tariff on Greenland. You better a tariff on Denmark. Look out Lego. All these tariffs are inflationary as hell. The auto industry is in terror about this steel thing, let alone, you know, we go total batshit with Canada and Mexico on tariffs that drives up the price of eggs and groceries.

So these bullets ricochet back to the stuff that people will fire Trump over, just like they fired Biden.

Which is why a chimp with a chainsaw in the Oval Office in the long run is screwed. In the short run, it's fun to watch. Yeah, the question is, I mean, I just don't think this is something that Democrats can... I mean, having argued that we should be focused on the home front, you know, I don't think this is one that, you know, we should... Where they're going to maneuver is that, you know, this is peace in our times. This is...

you know, going back to the 30s. And they're going to argue that, you know, by making accommodations with these people, we're assuring peace and we won't have to go to war again. And we saw what happened there and we'll see it again. There's going to be huge consequences for the U.S. by appeasing these guys. But you're right, not in the short term. Munich was popular. Strength deters aggression and weakness invites it.

And this weakness is going to invite another war. And we're going to be right back where we started. But understanding that Trump is trying to position weakness as strength.

that somehow by you know that by by you know putin is playing him like a slot machine but he's but he's playing it like i'm big enough to they're big i'm big enough to sit down and cut a deal you know that right right it's us tough guys are going to work it out i still think though the weakness thing will eat away at trump because it's essentially true i think the dem cywar line i agree it's not the it's not the headline for the average voter being squeezed by groceries

But the side where it ought to be, boy, Trump should have sent Musk outclassed.

Folding, folding, folding, folding. And the European core is snickering at him. That'll eat at Trump. There is a weakness here that can be exploited because the truth is weakness. I think Democrats need to turn his strength into weakness. Exactly. And not just Democrats, but if you are opposed to what Trump is doing, that the political play is to turn his strength into weakness, which it is in this case. The

The political play is to turn his obsession with things that have nothing to do with the lives of people against him and to turn the things that he's doing that will make the lives of people harder and more expensive against him. I mean, that's it. Time to pay the meter, but we will be right back. Now, let's hear from our sponsor.

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I want to hit one last thing quickly, just because it makes my blood boil. You like to have your blood boiling? Oh, it's my favorite thing. I'm Irish. Here we are trying to fight fentanyl, which Trump honks on. He managed to stop the Canadian fentanyl menace. So the CIA has drones sneaking around Mexican airspace looking for fentanyl farms. The Biden guys kept it secret like pros would do.

A month in, some Trump amateur decides to leak it to the papers today. So imagine you're the president of Mexico, shine bomb. Now you've got a huge domestic political firestorm. So for their own ego and vanity to say, we're so tough, we have secret agents. It's part of the show. It's part of the performative nature of what they're doing. Right. To feed that, they threw a monkey wrench and screwed the whole thing up.

It's just incredibly stupid and selfish. And there is no room for the American national interest in their calculation of what are we going to bunt our single on in today's Fox News cycle. So this is an example where they're literally making allies adversaries. I've been working with Gina Raimondo, the former Commerce Secretary, Jay Sullivan. We did export controls against China on high tech.

And agreeing and signing on the line was Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and the Dutch. You can't have a comprehensive export control stopping China from stealing our greatest IP, intellectual property, and economic security if allies aren't part of this.

The price of what we're doing by kicking our allies to the side of the road is going to make us weaker in holding back China's attempt to take us. And this notion, you're putting the Mexican president who wanted to cooperate in a bad position where she will literally not be able to fight the drug war with you on Mexican territory. It is going to actually bring more fentanyl to this country. Exactly. Exactly.

Because of stupid children in the Trump administration and an egomaniacal moron president. Because I will guarantee you, two years from now, every one of the things, whether it's inflation, egg prices, the war in Europe, etc., they are making the problems worse. Okay, we've got to go to the mailbag. Listener mail!

All right, if you have a question for the mailbag, all you got to do is email us at hacksontap at gmail.com, or you can send us a voice memo. Just not too long, we do the bloviating around here. Or you can call and leave it on the voicemail at our Rahm Emanuel Voter Registration Center in Cook County, Illinois.

773-389-4471. I'll repeat it because who can remember that? 773-389-4471. So, all right, let's play number one for Ron.

Hi, this is Kirk from Vancouver, Canada. Assuming the zeitgeist is the same in 2028, how would you handicap Rahm Emanuel's prospects as a candidate for both the Democratic nomination as well as the general election? He seems to be a straight shooter, blunt, good talker with lots of experience. Anyway, I'll hang up and hear your thoughts. Cheers.

Okay, so I just wanted to say right away, I want to know how your brother Ari got that guy to send a question in like that, Ron. Well, now if he's from Vancouver, I'm for Canada as the 51st state. Well, this is why the Republicans, by the way, should not be for Canada as a state, because they would never win an election again. I don't know. I just think that in...

one position and I want to say this about it because like maybe you know how I care about this

If I was a governor today and thinking about the future, I'd call for an emergency meeting of all the governors and they report that eighth graders have the worst reading score in 30 years. You had Obama's race to the top. You had Bush's Leave No Child Behind. You had Clinton's testing for advance. You had the nation at risk under Ronald Reagan. And I have not heard a single governor who are responsible for education in their state raise this as a fire alarm.

And this is, you know, it's a massive fire alarm that's gone off and nobody and, you know, part of politics is knowing not where the puck is, but where it will be. I believe.

that issue, education, is going to be a primary issue in 2026 and 2028. And if the Democrat was thinking about a future, that is where they should go. Nice little Gretzky move with the puck line for the Canadian question. By the way, I think you ought to go primary Chuck Schumer.

That's the race I want to see. Okay. You guys have a lot of ideas for my... Everybody picked through Rahm's answer, and that was what we call a non... What was that? Non-denial denial. A non-denial denial, yes. That was a non-denial denial. That was an answer to the question, 51st State. A non-denial denial, and that will perk up people's ears. No, it will not. Maybe we made a little news here. Breaking news. No, it is not. Emmanuel, the primary Schumer in battle for soul of democratic politics.

party. I like it. I think you could beat him. You say both of you have a lot of ideas about my career. I really appreciate the inbox. I think we want, we want our listeners to call in right in and tell us what they think Rahm should do. Should he run for president? New York kids, he could get the rude vote, which is 40% of the primary right there.

Rom, he would fit in there, but he's a Chicago. We're not giving him up in Chicago. New York on your mind. You got advice from the governor. You got advice from the U.S. Yeah, I normally charge top dollar to ruin a career, Rom, but you're getting it all for free. So, Mike Murphy, here is a question for you that came in also by voicemail.

Hi, Hacks. Taylor calling from Hamilton, Ontario, Canada. Unsurprisingly, my question has to do with the Trump tariffs. I'm wondering what, if any, resistance Trump will face from within his own party if the tariffs become a reality at the end of this month. Has there been any resistance from the Republicans so far? Will there be? And if so, where do you see it coming from first? Thanks. Love the show.

Thank you. And another call from Canada here. We're reaching out with our own leaf of friendship to our maple leaf loving friends to the north.

Hamilton, by the way, is a steel town. So I bet up there you're talking a lot about the steel tariffs, which Trump has done. So, no, they're gutless. However, to date, they've been gutless. They don't like tariffs because they know. It's what Rob said earlier. If they do have these votes and a secret ballot in the dark and Trump wouldn't know to primary them, there'd be a very different outcome, which there should be. We're not asking them to land on Anzio Beach here. But

I think if he goes for the full tariff enchilada and he moves his position every day so we'll see what happens, there would be some pushback, but I don't think it would be meaningful. And tariffs are popular politically. They're stupid because they raise the price of everything, create inflation, et cetera, et cetera. But don't bet on the Republicans showing much backbone on this. I'm heartbroken to tell you. We know that already.

Okay, a wrap-up question for David Axelrod, friend of New York, friend of incumbent mayors at all prices, from Winston. Native New Yorker. Native New Yorker, standing up for the right to vote even for a corrupt mayor. Here we go. A question for David Axelrod from Winston. What is the story behind how the Hacks decided to start this fantastic podcast? My guest, three friends periodically met for drinks and stories while imbibing Newtons.

Nearby folks said they would pay to hear that. Wait a minute. Who's paying? Is anybody paying? I'm looking for my check. Nearby folks said they would pay to hear that conversation. Why would we read these ads? Anyway, go ahead. Oh, that's true. We get a few nickels. Yeah. And the rest is history. Well, David, my phone rang. It was you. You should tell the story. Yeah. Well, listen, because Murphy and I, we were competitors. He on the Republican side, me on the Democratic side in many races over the years.

And we were friends at the same time. And I always found our conversations amusing, illuminating. And we would talk regularly. And then one day I said, whoa, this is pretty good stuff. Maybe we should do this so other people can hear it. I called Murphy. He was looking for a hobby. And so we started this podcast and it's been a lot of fun. And who knew?

uh, what we were going to be navigating through over these past three years. We're now more than 300 episodes in. We've had a lot of great guests. Not all of them are running for president like Rahm Emanuel, but they're all, uh, insightful, uh, interesting, fun folks. And, and we've gotten to interact with a lot of, a lot of you listeners. So we're having a ball. Hope you guys are too. And we want you to come back often.

Yeah, thank you. It's been a complete hoot. And you've downloaded like 20 million of these. So we appreciate your putting up with us. So thank you. And we're

We're going to have a lot to cover this year. You should say a lot of thank you to people for putting up with you, too. Yeah, I agree. We should pay them. The other thing that we're really good at is we're drawing out, you know, reticent guests. So the normally shy, retiring Rahm Emanuel, I think, was very expansive in this podcast. Don't you, Murphy? No, I don't. I think that's my normal, middle-child, insecure person.

Look out Schumer. This guy is a son of Illinois, man. He's not going to run against Chuck Schumer or anybody else. Don't try and steal him away. Anyway, great to have you, Ram. Come back often. Now you can be seen on my network, CNN. God, nobody warned you? Chief global and senior global and political commentator.

That's it. That's it. It's great for CNN. It rolls off the tongue. Yeah. Anyway, good to have you, brother. Come back often. Thanks, Ron. This was fun. Murphy, we'll see you next week. All right, buddy. See you soon. Bye-bye. See you guys. Bye-bye.