Can Arsenal find the chaos against Real Madrid?
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The Athletic FC Podcast Network. The only way to score is, of course, to play with a handbrake off. Hello, I'm Ian Stone. This is Handbrake Off, the Arsenal podcast brought to you by The Athletic. On Saturday, the Arsenal drew 1-1 with Everton to reflect on the game and look ahead to Real Madrid.

In the Champions League on Tuesday night, I'm joined by Art de Rocher and Adrian Clarke. Morning! Well, evening. Hello. It's afternoon for us, actually. It's evening for me. So we're going through all three. Yeah, I know. It's ridiculous. Mick and Arteta, by the way, did you know was voted the best-looking Premier League manager? Responding, my mum and dad should be very proud of the job that they did.

Which did make me reflect on my parents, to be honest with you. But anyway, do we agree? Adrian, do we agree? Do we agree? Now, let's have a think. Look, Russell Martin would have been a contender, wouldn't he? I think. But he's no longer employed in the Premier League. I don't think there's a better looking gaffer, is there? I mean, Pep's pretty handsome, isn't he? Do we not think?

Yeah, but it's the hair. We've got the hair. Yeah, I'm not sure about that. You know, I mean, Pep has a certain sort of guru sort of vibe about him, I think. I mean, undoubtedly, some women would be interested and fair enough. But no, Mikel, what do you think? I mean, Mikel's best looking manager, isn't he? Well, last season...

the whole, well, most women on social media were thirsting over Rob Edwards. Like every, every post-match interview Luton posted on Twitter, they'd just be all over it. But yeah, that, I guess that was Mikel's main competition and he's no longer, no longer in the Premier League. So I'd probably agree. I must admit, I'm, I,

I find the word thirsting difficult. Sorry, sorry. But anyway, no, no, it's okay. It's a strange award though, isn't it? I've done a couple of odd award ceremonies, I have to say. The Cast Metal Federation was a big one for me. The

The winner of the extruded aluminium insulation sleeve was a big moment. I do remember that. And the Wood Preservation Award. And I thought it was about, you know, preserving woodlands. But it was like Ron Seal Wood Stain, wood preservation. So a lot of the prep I did went straight out the window for that one. Anyway, anyway. Any of you done Strange Awards? Won Strange Awards? I haven't, but

I think this year, my five aside, like a lot that I usually play with, they're going to do end of season awards.

So I'm actually looking forward to seeing what they do this year because they said they're going to throw in some new categories. I like it. Yeah, it's a good idea. That's nice. That is nice. Yeah, if you've got a five-a-side team that wants to do an award, then that's a proper five-a-side. Unofficially, the worst feat at Arsenal. Pretty ugly feat I've got. And I think the physios...

kind of gave that mantle to me back in the day. I did at Stevenage. When I played for Stevenage, there was an awards night. I didn't get one of the big gongs.

But I think they wanted to give me something. So they sort of manufactured this. And I was delighted with it. And I don't agree with it, Stoney. You'll probably laugh. I got the best David Ginona lookalike award. It just seems daft at the moment. But I did have a big old mane of hair back in the day, which I think distorted it and made me maybe look more Shinola than I really do. He is far better.

to moi. Can't see it, myself. I'll be honest with you. No. Can't quite see it. The locks. It was all about the locks, mate. To be fair, you haven't gone grey yet and he has. You're winning. I'll take that. You are winning. I say you're winning, but I did a radio show with Davy Ginola on the BBC and at one point he said to me, you can talk very well. And I said to him, that's because I don't look like you, David. We all have to have our ways of doing things. Anyway,

We'll talk briefly about Everton 1, Arsenal 1, because, you know, it was sort of a nothing game, wasn't it? Really, we all know that all eyes are on Madrid on Tuesday. Five changes, Mikel, you know, more than one eye on Madrid. He doesn't rotate to that extent generally. Oh, it's the right call though, wasn't it? Really? I mean, I think all of us would have taken a draw away at Everton and

And no injuries and a bit of a rest for some of the players. 100%. And I think, I guess the main thing looking at the lineup was, oh, it was nice to see Ben White starting and he played an hour. So I think, yeah, for me, I didn't care that, say, Raheem Sterling was starting a game in the Premier League. It was, yeah, just, as you said, get the job done, no injuries and on to Tuesday.

Yeah, I mean, Jordan Campbell said in the piece for The Athletic, it was a game between the two Premier League teams who've seen the fewer shots in their games this season. And it played out like that. I mean, Adrian, I don't know Everton fans, but I'll be watching that every week. No, I thought Everton were pretty poor. First half, we were vastly superior. Vastly superior? Yeah, I mean, we should have been.

Two or three up, really, without getting out of second gear. Yeah, didn't make us sort of pressure tell maybe well enough. Lovely goal from Trossard. Great finish, wasn't it? Great finish. Great finish. He's so precise, isn't he? Reminded me of the goal I think he scored against Tottenham. Left foot goes on the outside, left foot, bottom corner. You know, he is a really sort of accurate finisher, Leandro Trossard. So, yeah, and he showed it there.

Second half, obviously we'll get to what happened at the start of it, but I just felt we allowed it to become the sort of game Everton wanted it to be. It was scrappy. There's a lot of fouls. It was bitty. There was no real flow. So I kind of credit Everton for making it a dog of a second half because that's the only way that they're ever going to stand a chance of competing against a team like Arsenal. So they did it very well. We kind of couldn't get out of that rut, but

And yeah, I mean, even that said, Jordan Pickford makes a couple of great saves, doesn't he? He did. So we should have won the game. Including one from Leandro Trossa that I think might have been disallowed. But, I mean, unbelievable saves from Pickford. And a good one from Martinelli as well. That being said, it wasn't a penalty, was it? I mean, Christ almighty, how many times is this going to happen? We're going to have dodgy decisions. I mean, I think that would have been, if he'd have called it the other way,

I think you could have... It would have been justifiable. But why call it a tall? Why... I mean, yes. Yes, he had his arm around him for like half a second, the miles below Skelly. But then he takes it away because he knew it was going in the area. And then he falls over, Jack Harrison, and he gives a penalty. Oh, it's nonsense, wasn't it? Yeah, I think, as you said, the arm comes around, but then, as you say, it comes away straight away. And, yeah, to be fair, I was just...

I don't know, my brain wasn't really functioning as it was happening. So I was like, yeah, okay, that'll be a free kick. And then it was like, oh no, no, no, it's a penalty. Yeah.

It wasn't that your brain wasn't functioning, it was the referee's brain wasn't functioning. And you were sort of living in the real world, he was living in the Liverpool must win the league world, which a lot of referees are living in. Do you see that nonsense of Van Dijk not getting a penalty against him? I mean, and there's been like 10 occasions or something, but anyway, that's separate.

Yeah, these, you know, I was listening to Talk Sport yesterday. I love Talk Sport. I work for them. But, you know, they were sort of run, you know, their question in one of the shows was, you know, why are Arsenal so far behind Liverpool? You know, it's supposed to be their year. And, you know, there's all these reasons of, you know, too many draws and this and that. The point's different. Made by...

I hesitate to say 50-50 calls because I don't think they're as much as 50-50. The ones that have gone against us have added up to a good...

six to nine points at least, I think. Well, four points against Brighton. Four points against Brighton for William Saliba being sent off for a clash of heads and Detlef Rice getting it for that nonsense. You know. The Trossard one at City was never... You know, there's a load of them. But this one for me was almost as bad as any decision that's gone against Arsenal this season. I think you could absolutely have given it a foul from Harrison. What most people...

most sane people would have done is just not giving anything. It's like you've both got each other's shirts, play on. You know, if you're going to give a foul against Lewis Skelly, which you shouldn't do, then it has to be outside the box. The last thing that they should have given there was a penalty. And it's Darren England. And, you know, we know that Darren England was the guy who didn't overrule Michael Oliver with the Lewis Skelly red card that got...

you know, struck off. Is there a bit of rep going on there now? That's a couple of times now, isn't it? That he's not come up with very good decisions for us. It's so frustrating. Yeah. That all being said, Jakub Kivior, slightly culpable with not winning, or not say winning a header, going for the header. I mean, obviously it did go over his head and you sort of wonder whether he could have got it, but I thought even just a touch would have helped Miles a little bit there. Yeah. I think one of the big things you miss with Gabriel is just

A, the communication, but then also B, taking charge in maybe uncertain situations, 50-50 situations. And if Kivior had actually taken charge there, you probably don't get to the situation where it's Miles and Jack Harrison at the edge of the box. So I think you're right there. And the thing for me as well is,

I think Kivior's fine as a centre-back, but there always seems to be one moment in every one of his games. Yeah, Palace. Palace in the League Cup. Even Fulham. Last week, there was a moment where he slipped on the halfway line. And it just seems like, I don't know, he might need that little moment to get through and then he's awake in the game. For me...

I know we'll probably talk about this later on, but he wouldn't be the guy that I kind of select against Real Madrid. Yeah. Now on that, by the way, you win the header, but if it goes over your head, it's still your fault because it's come from a goalkeeper. Yeah. You've got to get your position right. And if your position is such that it goes over your head and is allowed to bounce and still doesn't reach the area, then your position isn't right. Quite. So it's unfair.

undoubtedly a Kivior error that sparks that. One other thing I'll talk about with Myles was that run through the middle when he took on about four or five players. And I saw him, there's a beautiful run he did when he was playing for the youth team or the under 18s. Very, very similar, which ended with Waneri, I think scoring. Yeah, Cambridge United. Was that what it was? But, you know, he has that ability. He sort of has a way of shielding the ball and

Do we play him in midfield next season? Do we think about playing midfield? Or do we go, look, you know what? Our fullbacks end up playing in midfield most of the time anyway. But defending is harder in a way. He's got to learn how to defend. And it's going to take a bit of time for that. And we know he's going to make the odd error.

Not that it was a particular error, I don't think, of the weekend. What do you think, Art? You know, he is a midfielder, isn't he? Yeah, I think there's definitely scope for it next season when, I guess, you can have him and Declan Rice in there, which would be a very powerful two.

behind the creator. And then I guess the question is, okay, who plays left back? Probably Riccardo Calafiori. Calafiori, yeah. But he himself needs to be fit more often. And then who is behind him? Because if Chiarantini goes to Celtic and what happens with

Oleksandr Sinchenko I think those are the questions you need to ask before you can kind of I guess move Miles into into midfield but for me personally whether it's next season or the season after that's where his kind of future lies for Arsenal in my opinion I mean I do

Adrian, look, we know he can do it, right? He's got all the skills needed to play in a midfield position. He can shield the ball. He can receive it in tight areas. He knows what to do. He's strong. He can drive forward. He can score goals as well. Yeah, I think he probably stays at left-back for the short term. But if we've got a midfield crisis, he's the guy you stick in there. Yeah, because it does look like we're going to sign...

you know, a decent central midfielder I'd imagine this summer. So they'll start, Rice will start and then Urdegaard will start, won't he? So there isn't really an automatic spot for him and you want him in the team. With that rough...

I described it on commentary and I don't know if this will mean anything to you. You're probably too young, Art, but the late, great Jonah Lomu, the rugby player. I played rugby growing up. But there was that World Cup when he really burst onto the scene where he just flattens everybody around him and goes through. And that's how it kind of felt. The players were just bouncing off of Lewis Gellie. He is...

he's an absolute master at using his body to protect the ball it's

completely natural got a bit of john mcginn got a bit of john mcginn about him the way that john mcginn sticks out his ass and he does yeah and you know it's really useful kenny douglisius do it years ago right as well yeah to stick out his ass and very very difficult to get get into these players unbelievable well when you think about what it takes because obviously a lot of players will make excuses you know when players go down inside the box people are saying well

you know, if you're running at a high speed, it only takes a little touch and you go down. You know, Lewis Skelly, that run from Lewis Skelly kind of made a nonsense of that. I think it depends though. It will knock you over when you want it to knock you over is my take on it. But I think Lewis Skelly, his body, he's built a lot. He's a lot more sturdy than, say, a winger, for instance. And I think the fact that... Don't you be wingerist, Art. Come on.

I think the fact that he's been able to translate that type of run that he did back in the FA Youth Cup against Cambridge United that Ian was talking about into men's football at 18 is so impressive. So yeah, massive, massive kudos to him and obviously the strength and conditioning guys as well.

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Mikhail Saka had a half. Nothing much came down his side, to be honest. It was all going on the other side with Martinelli. But Mikel Arteta said in today's presser, he's in a much better place. Gradually, we built his minutes in the last six, seven days. Now he's in a really good place to produce. Adrian, we will get

to the team against Real Madrid, but specifically him? Do you start him against Real Madrid or bring him on after 60 minutes? Look, if it was anyone else, I would say, based on what I've seen, I would absolutely say he's not quite ready. I would say that I'd prefer to see him for the final half an hour of that game. And I'll be honest, it's maybe not a popular thing, but that's probably what I would do because I think the final half an hour of the game will be very important.

And, you know, we might need a goal at that point. Yes. And what a sub to bring on. Exactly. And, you know, he came off the bench the other day and delivered against Fulham. He just doesn't look anywhere near full speed yet. And my concern is that this is the highest level of football you can get. Arsenal-Real Madrid will be fast. It will be furious. It will be so sharp.

And he's been out for so long. I think as any player, well, some players can hit the ground running, but Bacayo doesn't know. He's never been out this long, has he? So most players need a little bit of time to sharpen up and...

I don't know if he's had long enough. I would probably start Ethan and bring him on for the half an hour, but a lot of people will be screaming at me right now saying, you've got to start Saka in this match. And I kind of get that as well. Well, I tell you what, we'll talk about that

in a short while. I get hearts for you as well. Chiarantini did well as well, coming off the bench, created a couple of chances. He's still got something to offer, hasn't he, Art? He always does. Yeah, he always does. He's got a particular cross that no one else can do with. He'll go at the barline and then sort of pull it across the box. And if we've got guys running, time it right, it can be a very dangerous ball. It actually saddens me.

that we're coming towards the end of his time at Arsenal. Me too, I agree. Me too. It just, he makes so much sense. Even if he's not the inverting fullback, like he just does everything well. And I think looking back over the last two years, I think I would wish...

Mikel Arteta kind of realised just using him to his strengths was the way to go two years ago, three years ago, whenever it was, rather than trying to make him into something that he wasn't. But for the time that Arsenal still have him, I think...

if you're maybe in a tight spot against Real Madrid and you need something different he can offer that who knows he might come up with a really big moment where again he's brought off the bench and he delivers from that area again so I think he's someone yeah definitely will be of value maybe

maybe in the second leg in particular. It's nice to see him fit as well. I'm just happy for him that he's fit and he'll go back to Celtic and obviously we'll wish him all the best, but he's plenty to offer in the last few months of the season. The last ever game for Arsenal at Goodison Park. Adrian, did you play there?

No, didn't play at Goodison. No, sadly. I've been there a few times to watch games. But yeah, it's a great old ground. Lovely, lovely ground. It's a grand old ground, isn't it? It's a grand old ground. And it's, you know, it's one of those, it's a bit like Highbury, really, isn't it? It had that sort of vibe. Yeah. And I, you know, something very old fashioned about the place, the Zed Cars theme. Right on the streets. Yes, right on the streets. There's sort of rows of houses right behind the,

the stand like it was at

at Highbury. So yeah, it's really special in that regard. I just think as sad as it is, Everton to grow as a club have to move. You have to bring in more revenue, don't they? You know, you've got hardly any corporate and I know that shouldn't be the priority, but you know, it brings in a lot of money and various other reasons why. Not least attracting players as well. I think having a brilliant modern stadium, great facilities, definitely

might give you the edge over a club that doesn't have that you know when you were going into the market so I think they need to move but it's yeah I'd imagine they'd be really sad the Everton fans one more thing before we move on from that game I mean I honestly thought when the referee blew up and then said oh no no it's a free kick that they were going to score because we could add that to the list of stupid

stupid decisions that have cost Arsenal. I mean, I'm glad it didn't happen, but honestly, have you ever seen anything like that? In lockdown, actually, I think Man United got awarded a penalty after full-time and scored it.

And it might have been the winner against Brighton. Yeah, but lockdown was... No, wasn't it Brighton who scored? I thought Brighton scored it, didn't they? I mean, I do remember that. One or the other. But lockdown's different. Lockdown, that was different. Oh, no, it was Bruno. It was Bruno. Jay has just told us. Yeah, yeah. Of course it was. On the game, before we move off, I did think Trossard was good. I thought he played really well. And I think that obviously it was surprising to see Mourinho at centre mid again.

just sort of keeps him ticking over I mean is that something he wanted to look at ahead of Real Madrid I don't know let's talk about that game well you know what do you remember the last time we faced Real Madrid have you seen it I mean you've obviously seen the highlights of Thierry Henry looking like the best player on earth which he basically was at that point just basically taking the piss out of them it was unbelievable and then scoring the winning goal well you you were around them weren't you but

So, um, the final is actually the first game I remember watching, like having an actual memory of. What Barcelona? Yeah. What horrible memory. Yeah. I had the, the maroon kit. That was my first ever kit that my mom got for me and my brother was watching the game. There was one point where I like, I remember praying that Barcelona would lose and,

And my dad said, no, that's not something you can pray for. So I was like, oh, okay. Is that right? You can't pray for that? Yeah, yeah. He just said it was wrong, basically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. World peace, all that sort of stuff. Yes. Arsenal beating Barcelona in the Champions League final. No. Yeah. And then I just remember crying my eyes out.

for most of the night for obvious reasons. Which is, what you've done is basically avoided that question. You don't remember? No. Yeah, Real Madrid is what I'm saying. Real Madrid, because the last time we played Real Madrid, our back four was Mathieu Flamini, Philippe Senderos, Kolo Toure and Manuel Aboui. I think...

that Myles Lewis-Skelly, Ben White, William Saliba and Uri and Timber, if that is what he goes with, is a much better defence. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah, definitely. So, but, you know, and that was a star-studded Real Madrid side, as is this. It's a Galacticos team. You can't compare, you can't compare the teams. You just got to,

Yeah, you've just got to look at this game in its own context. He's telling me to move on, Art. He's telling me to move on. You've got a great chance. Don't get fixated on the past. I mean, Art, where are you with this one? I sort of veer between...

being quite depressed about it and being sort of cautiously optimistic. You know, I'd love to see, I would love to see our first team out there. I'd love to see Gabriel out there. I'd love to see Havertz out there. I'd love to see Bukayo Saka on a run of 10 games and 10 goals and 14 assists or something. But this is where we are. How are you feeling? I'm feeling good. I think the closer, yeah, the closer we get to kick off, the more I'm just in my head like,

just go for it like this is this is the game that everyone's been waiting for so uh there's no point being scared about it in my opinion i think it should be viewed as a really good opportunity to kind of set a new marker in europe and as adrian said as you said as well ian back four

It's not as big an issue as we thought it would be a week ago, especially with Ben White getting an hour on the weekend and Drew and Timber getting half an hour. So yeah, I'm actually looking forward to it a lot.

And, yeah, I think it'll be really fun, hopefully. It will be something. And I was thinking, Adrian, about the way we started against Bayern Munich a few years back when we just battered them for 20 minutes. I mean, their manager did actually say that was the hardest 20 minutes they had all season. And then Mesut Ozil got a penalty and then he missed it. And it was like air being let out of a balloon all at once.

And we never had another chance. But the way we started that game, and I just feel we have to do the same thing. We have to tear into Real Madrid because, let's be fair, they're not a defensive team. They're not. And we're going to have to...

take some risks because their front three four are outstanding and we're going to have to push up and really pin them back but we're capable of doing that we've got some great players definitely yeah no the weakness is in defence and we've got to go for it as you guys have been saying I couldn't agree more we've got to tear into them it's about being intense it's about making that first 20 hostile and

and make them wish for that final whistle a lot earlier than they're going to get it. And look, let's hope that we can make an early breakthrough and we'll maybe get a couple of goals and then we can maybe manage the tie from that kind of position. That would be the dream scenario, I think, for Mikel Arteta. Look, this is a team, Real Madrid, one clean sheet in 12 in this season's Champions League. Lost at the weekend. Yeah. If you look at their last three games, they've conceded eight goals.

They've conceded at least twice in four of their last eight games. You know, defensively, we can absolutely get at them. But, of course, they've got Mbappe and Vinicius up front. I think it will be a 4-4-2 from them. So I'm looking at their recent form, what they've done in the Champions League.

who's played lately. I don't think Rodrigo is necessarily likely to start. It could be Vinny and Mbappe up front. Bellingham is sort of an inverted left winger that kind of plays as a 10 sometimes. Maybe Brahim Diaz does similar on the right. Tuomany suspended, which is good news for us. So Modric will come in. So that's,

Depends which way you look at it. You know, 39-year-old, but he's also brilliant. 39 at the moment, but he's still unbelievably good, isn't he? Yeah, but he is brilliant on the ball, but without the ball, has he got the legs? You know, Declan Rice up against him, I quite like that. And at right back, who's going to play there? Is it going to be Valverde, who's a midfielder?

Or is it going to be Lucas Vasquez, who's a winger? And that player, whoever it is, and I don't think they'll be sticking their hands up in the dressing room, whoever is picked for that, plays against our most informed forward in Gabriel Martinelli. So, who I think is a real key player for us in the game because of that, but also because of the energy he brings. And if we have that intense start, I expect a lot of it to come down the left. I'm feeling excited just talking about it, aren't you? Yeah.

I mean, genuinely. I mean, I've been looking forward to this. I mean, that's a positive way of looking at it. But yeah, I mean, you can see all that playing out. Yeah, I mean, look, it's incredibly hard. We know it's Real Madrid and it's the Champions League and we know they always find a way. But...

you know we've got some players who can hurt them and I also was thinking about the amount of space that will be on that pitch obviously it'd be fast and what have you but Real Madrid you know this is the antithesis of what we had against Everton at the weekend they're not playing a low block are they? No no and this is one of the big reasons why I think Martinelli is going to be so key like when we talk about him we always talk about how much he needs space and stuff like that but

when has he actually had the opportunity to run in space this season or in the past two seasons and I think last week against Fulham he was player of the match created five chances I think but also was really

with the ball and his running. And he was that again against Everton when he came on and had that chance in the last 10 minutes or so. So I think, yeah, he's one where I'm looking at the space that he could have both at the Emirates and at the Bernabeu and thinking, yeah, this game could really suit him. Come see the Oslo! Come see the Oslo! You know you can't see!

They get a hand-wreck off and you can see that they are more free to play. Martin Erdegaard. Martin Erdegaard, Adrian, I was thinking about. You know, ex-Real Madrid didn't quite work out for him there and now, you know, he's up against them. He is going to want to put in a performance, isn't he? Oh, he is. Yeah, he's going to

He is going to want to shine. And I think it was telling that he was rested at the weekend. Yes. He doesn't get many of those. So yeah, he'll be up for it and,

Can he get a slip in behind Modric and whoever's next to him? Because I don't think Sabayos has travelled. So I think it'll be Vavardi and Modric with Vasquez at right back. But I might be wrong. But he can get in behind those midfielders, get into those pockets and make things happen, definitely. And he'll be supercharged. You know, he'll trigger the press and the press is going to be really important for us in the game. Him and Mourinho, they're going to have to get about those centre-halves.

The issue is that Real Madrid are really good at navigating these kind of games, aren't they, in the knockouts. This is what they do. I looked at it as a stat. They haven't lost the first leg of any of their last eight in the knockout stages of the Champions League. They've won five, they've drawn three. So, you know, this isn't the sort of game that they usually lose. But I'm not saying they'll be nervous, but I think they'll be well aware that if they're not at it,

We can win this game. Definitely. All right. Well, a couple of questions then. First of all, what team are we picking? I mean, there are one or two possibilities in a couple of positions. I'm going to come to you first. We're all saying David Rarer in goal. What's the defence for you? My defence is Timber right back, White centre back, Saliba centre back, Lewis Skelly left back,

Adrian, you having that? I'm having that. Yeah, it's what I would go for. I do think that Ben White has looked a bit undercooked. I do think that he's made a few mistakes under pressure, not just at the weekend, but in a couple of his other games. But I just do think he's...

probably more reliable in the big game than Kivior for the reasons that Art outlined earlier. I just think Kivior can get a bit flustered and I think White is less likely to do so. So, yeah. Also, just on White, he plays this passing behind when he plays at centre-back that William Sliver never really does. It led to Saka's goal against Liverpool earlier in the season. Perfect, perfect pass. So if there is that space...

to kind of exploit. I think he's probably someone that can see it and try something as well. Midfield, Adrian. I mean, is there any argument? Partey, Rice and Erdogan? It picks itself, doesn't it? Yeah. Partey rested for the game. It's the best midfield three. It is. So we have to go with them. And then,

up front Adrian I'll give this to you actually you're not starting Bakayo's sake I don't I keep changing my mind but you can't it's only been 10 minutes since you said it I know because every partner wants to pick Zaka clearly

Well, not every part. No, not every part. You're right. Just 10 minutes apart 10 minutes ago, didn't he? That's what I'm saying. Based on the old eye test, I think that he's struggling for his sharpness. So I think I would go for one area who I'd have no worries about handling it without Martin Oli on the other side. And I would go Marino, even though Trossard played very well.

Yeah, Marino's aerial power, his work rate, the pressing, the link play. I think it could be a really good night for Mikel Marino. All right. Art, what are you saying? F***.

We won't hold you to it. We're just having a chat. I'm not sure Mikel is hanging on to this going, what's hard going to be before I decide. I'm going to be bold and I'm going to start Saka. I think that'll just send a message and it'll probably also help with the atmosphere as well to start the game. I think it'll just, yeah, set your stall out.

And then even if you have to bring him off after an hour, I think that's fine. I'd start Marino as the nine. As Adrian said, I think against Rudiger, probably need someone who has a bit of a physical presence and kind of Trossard will be fine as a

impact player scored in both knockout rounds last year. So that's my Trump card. And then I'll start Martinelli off the left. So yeah, Ethan, Ethan would be my replacement for, uh,

Saka but yeah I'd go Saka Marino and Martinelli as my front three yeah I'm absolutely unsure I just really don't know I'm Martinelli and Marino and I just don't know there's a little bit of me

That moment when Bukayo Saka was brought on against Fulham, and like I said, I wasn't there, but I was watching it on TV from over here, and I was saying on the pod the other day, it was the nearest thing I felt to that Thierry Henry moment

In fact, it might have been better than that Thierry Lamy moment against Leeds. There was something really magical and special. And I think there would be again if he comes on. And also, I think that with Bukayo Saka, I agree with Adrian, he's not quite...

a sharp it might be better for him to be up against a tiring team a tiring defenders as opposed to coming on first but you know what if Mikkel starts him I'd be more than happy as well that's the truth of it yeah I have no objections at all in the end Marino Martinelli and if it's Saka or Waneri cool doesn't matter about it doesn't matter who they are they're just if they bring their A game bring that intensity go for it

and play like it is the most exciting night of their lives. Just play with that energy and

I don't care who they are, you know, which 11 players they are. Just bring it and wear that badge with pride and seize the moment, really. Because we have waited years and years for a night like this. Let's not waste it by being timid. Don't hold anything back. Quite, quite. Let's show, you know, we're the Arsenal. Who we are, what we are and what we represent, you know, and all that. What would be a good result? But.

By the way, what would be a good result? I'd say going to the Bernabeu with one goal in it. A lead? Well, preferably. But if not, then a one goal defeat, I'd be fine with at the Emirates. Really? Yeah. Still being in it. But obviously, I'd prefer Arsenal to win.

That was not an answer I was expecting, Adrian. I've got to be honest with you. I mean, I'm thinking win as a minimum. I'm trying to be realistic. We're not Tottenham Hotspur, mate. This is the Arsenal. Come on. Okay, okay. What do you want me to say? Like a 4-0? 4-0 to Arsenal? No, I don't know what you're saying there, unless you actually think that's what we need. But I'm saying, I mean, I think...

Losing 1-0 is never a good result, Art. I want you to retract that. Come on. No. All right, all right, all right. Wow. Oh, no, okay. Tool, tool.

All right. I'm really glad I asked this question. What do you think? A two goal wins a great result. A one goal win is a good result. There you go. That's what we're looking for. A draw is a perfectly acceptable result. Any kind of defeat is disappointing. It's as simple as that. I would say. I would say. Yeah. I mean, well, I would, I would love a lead.

I'd love to take a lead to the Bernabeu, but you know. Yeah, no, I know you would as well, Art, but that's not what you said. Anyway. Anyway, it's all right. I'd be all right with that. I'd be all right with a defeat, he said. Anyone would be all right with a lead. Anyone.

Well, yeah. I'm then one of many people. I don't need to be some maverick going, you know what? I'd take a 2-0 defeat down there. Oh, my God. And then I think we'd be an amazing comeback. That's what I'm looking for. Stoney, get your card out. That's a yellow, isn't it? That is a yellow card. I'm really...

You know what? For someone so young, there's so much lack of enthusiasm and hope. I just still want to be in it. That's my thing. I still want to be in the tie in Madrid. You know what? I mean, that's a point, isn't it? You want to be in the tie, but we don't really want to go and have to win in the Bernabeu, even though we've done it before. It would be amazing. And in terms of the atmosphere...

Obviously, we need the fans to bring the noise. But the truth is, I mean, if the players can't get... I mean, the players will be up for this one. And what I imagine will happen is the players will be playing at such a high intensity that the crowd will just be taken along with it and will be so excited to be watching a spectacle like that. Yeah, I've seen in Mikel Arteta's presser, he's asked for the fans to get there for the warm-up, which obviously...

doesn't tend to happen at the Emirates but hopefully I think it will hopefully it can tomorrow and as I think I've said previously last season thinking back to the knockout stages the Porto atmosphere was so far superior to the Bayern one from the first minute everyone was booing the Porto players and stuff like that so I think I'd hope for similar to that don't be too shy or nervous about Real Madrid go for them

Yeah, quite. Well, here we go then. Let's have a song to finish. Art, what have you got for us? In his presser, Art also was asked whether Arsenal deserve some luck for once this season. He said, I think we deserve it. That just made me think of

Yeet. I was thinking Kylie. I should be so lucky, but obviously not in the same way. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we can go with whichever one. I'll be bumping Yeet, I think. But if you want to go for Kylie, Jay can make the decision on that one, I think. But yeah, we deserve some luck tomorrow, hopefully. Yeah, but I know, think he thinks he can't help it.

Yeah, it's interesting that he said that as well. You know, because it wouldn't normally be something he wouldn't want to go down that road, would he? No, he wouldn't. I mean, we haven't really talked about this. We've had so little luck this season, really. It'd be nice to get some, wouldn't it? And we may well need some. Adrian, what about you? Yeah, easy choice this time round. It's one from a very old song, but we all know it.

the Pointer Sisters I'm so excited and I just can't hide it you know it's an absolute classic and that's how I feel and I think anyone that's got a ticket for the game is going to feel exactly the same way and even if I haven't you know just watching it it's going to be going to be a thrilling experience hopefully

Yeah, I'm going to be watching it at five o'clock in the morning. All right. And I am excited. I've been listening. I'm thinking it's not really about the game as such, but I'm thinking about energy. I've been listening to the Ramones lately. I was in a market the other day listening to Ramones. There's Blitzkrieg Bop. Let's go.

Oh, let's go. And I thought that's what I think, right? It's got that energy. It's got that sort of chaos. Adrian, you talked about chaos all year. We have to bumfuzzle them. We have to be so... We do, don't we? What on earth is bumfuzzle? But I like it. I'm not sure I do.

get in there I'm telling you just to get in their heads just to get in their heads and just go oh my god we can't handle it you know because we can do it we can do it and I what's interesting I sort of feel like there's a nice vibe around the club at the moment that they do believe they look gutted to only draw against Everton I think there's a real winning mentality in this team and we want to see it that's bumfuzzling yeah come on that is bumfuzzling yeah let's do that

Anyway, that's it for this edition of Hand Break Off. Thanks to our Debbie Downer over there. Thanks, Adrian. Thanks to... Oh, yeah, I'll take a 2-0 defeat. We're all right. And thanks to Jay, our producer. And we'll see you after Madrid. Ta-ra.

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