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The only way to score is, of course, to play with a handbrake off. Hello, I'm Ian Stone. This is Handbrake Off, the Arsenal podcast brought to you by The Athletic. Today, we're talking about Tuesday night as Arsenal welcome PSG in the first leg of our Champions League semi-final to preview the game. I'm joined by Adrian Clarke and a special guest, football journalist and French football specialist Tom Williams.
Morning. Morning, chaps. Morning, everybody. Who's this stranger in the room, Stoney? It's Tom. Tom knows about French football and is a special guest football journalist. Hello, Tom. Thanks for joining us. Hi, my pleasure to be here. And just so you all know, I'm almost within a stone's throw of the Emirates Stadium. Really? As we record, because I'm a Finsbury Park resident. So despite not being a gooner, I'm at least, you know, I'm gooner adjacent. Let's put it like that. I come in peace.
I can confirm this, Tony, because I have actually seen Tom on a jog around the outside of Emirates Stadium. I've seen him there. Right. So, yeah, he's definitely local. He might live miles away, just jog along, why? This is true. Have you thought that? Okay, anyway. This is true. And I run past the Emirates just to keep up the pretense that I live locally, whereas in actual fact, I'm in Croydon. That would
be quite the stretch just to trick Adrian Clarke into thinking that I do live near the stadium. To be fair, on Tuesday you'll be closer to the stadium than him. Oh, stop it. Yeah, for anyone, anyway, we'll do this later. Anyway, later in the show I'll be joined by Art de Rocher to talk about Arsenal's incredible
result in the Women's Champions League 4-1 out in Lyon to put their place in the Champions League final. But in the meantime, you may have seen Jack Wilshere, Aaron Ramsey have both been appointed interim managers of Norwich and Cardiff and will face each other on the final day of the championship season. Adrian, who in the current Arsenal squad do you think will make the best manager and who do you think will make the worst, incidentally?
And I say this, you must have shared a dressing room with people who went on to be managers. Did you see it beforehand? No, not always. No, no. Sometimes it really does...
Does surprise you. Sometimes it doesn't. I was good mates with Nathan Jones at Southend and you knew he had the intensity, just the sort of passion for football to be a manager. But yeah, I know with others, it definitely takes you by surprise. You know, even someone like Boldy, I'm just thinking about him. He's a bit of a lad at the back of the bus, you know, one of the sort of Tuesday club stars.
stalwarts I wouldn't have seen him sort of becoming a youth team coach and obviously he's gone on to become you know first team level coach as well now so yeah I wouldn't have seen that and there's various examples out of this current group I
I mean, the obvious ones are Marino and Jorginho for me. Marino, he's got a bit of an aura, hasn't he? There are Arteta vibes about him and he seems very intelligent and a good communicator and...
He's obviously adaptable. He understands football and the different roles. So I think I will go for Mikel Mourinho. And he's Spanish. And Spain tend to produce quite a lot of good managers, don't they? So I think he'll be the best. Mourinho, worst...
Couple of candidates. I'll leave the door open for Tom. I'm going to go with Zinchenko because he's an absolute lunatic. I think he's just a little bit random. And, you know, if you ever see the players interviewed and asked about the teammates, it's almost always Zinchenko that they're having a giggle about. And they all say he's just mad in various different ways. So that's probably not the best answer.
Trait to have if you're a gaffer. Although two words, Antonio Conte. All right. Because, you know, absolute crazy. I'm hearing you. Has done pretty well as a manager. Tom, what about you? Best and worst in the current Arsenal squad?
Yeah, I was thinking about people who are good communicators and one who came to mind very quickly was Declan Rice. Someone who's just so at ease in front of the cameras. And that's obviously a huge part of modern football management is people who talk a good game. I can imagine him, you know, looking pretty slick in a sharp suit on the touchline. But then if we look at kind of comparable recent examples of leading English central midfielders playing for leading English clubs and then went into management games,
your Steven Gerrard's Frank Lampard's albeit Frank Lampard is doing great things at the moment but yeah
No guarantee of success. And then, I mean, for the worst, again, looking at a kind of communication perspective, I struggle to imagine that Ben White would want to, you know, go into management, would want to linger within the game for any longer than he strictly has to. No, no. Yeah, hard to see Ben White as a manager, I think. But who knows? As Adrian said, you know, you get plenty of surprises with things like this. Good call. I mean...
I was thinking about Bukayo and wondering about him because he's obviously a super achiever in everything he does and he's got that quiet authority and he is a leader, isn't he? I mean, whether he could cuss people, but I'm not sure he'd need to, really. I think you just look at him like, you've let me down. And they'd go, sorry, Bukayo, we won't have,
And again, you know what I mean? He won't be throwing teacups against the wall, but he's just got such an air of authority. So I wonder about the Kai. Kai Havertz, I think, wouldn't make a particularly good manager. He just seems too diffident. I mean, I'm sure he's a strong lad and all the rest of it, but it just doesn't strike me as managerial tumor. But as we've all said, this is all speculation. We have no idea. Although everyone saw it in Mikel Arteta from when he was about 12, didn't they?
I think so. So I'm told. Anyway, anyway, as you know, Arsenal in the semifinals of the Champions League for the first time in 16 years. Before we have a chat about it, let's have a little reminisce of the highlights up to this point.
Leandro Trossard comes charging forward. He's got Martinelli on the outside, checks back on the inside. Into the box, he goes towards Kai Havertz! And Arsenal have their breakthrough! Sink his delivery, Martinelli tries to get something on him. It's gone all the way through and into the back of the net. Arsenal double their lead. It's Arsenal 2, Paris Saint-Germain 0. A shooting opportunity for Marino and a close-range header for Leandro Trossard.
And Arsenal score five away from home in the Champions League for the first time since 2008. And they've been majestic here in Lisbon tonight. I saw them getting pressed on, so I thought, you know, keep calm, you know, take the man, take the ball away from him. Excellent composure from Lewis Skelly under pressure and a good ball at the end of it to Jesus. It's a second! Wonderful!
I saw Gadi peeling off and I played through and then Mbakaia great timing for the finish man, he's always there so yeah, thanks on Flamie. Well it's easy to focus on the goal scorer but I'm not surprised the Arsenal team have gone across to Miles Lewis Skelly. Great composure at the outset, very very accurate ball and he played such a big role in the Arsenal goal. Nah it was just all instinct, I just saw the space, I just sensed that the goalkeeper wouldn't expect the shot so I took it.
I took it and scored. Ethan Wan-Eri on his first Champions League start for Arsenal with an absolute cracker. Nah, one of the highest, definitely, because it's Champions League. It's what I've loved and watched since I was young, so to come and win Man of the Match on my starting debut, it's a special feeling. I'm happy. Trossard sliding it through to Lewis Skelly. But need do well to keep it alive.
And Guarneri right footed home. Oh, the team combination hits the high notes in the Champions League. Here's Calafiori of all people turning up to complete a magnificent seven. And I think Arsenal can book their tickets to Madrid already. Only three in the wall, Rice goes round it. Absolutely brilliant. Rice or Oedegaard? It's Rice again. This...
It's the semi-final for Arsenal.
It's a glory night for them, they've come to Madrid and they've not... And they've just touched the seal on a magnificent two-leg display.
So yeah, now you can be loud. But Paris Saint-Germain is coming. Well, wasn't that a lovely listen, eh? I mean, I'm thinking genuinely of having that as a ringtone. So we can have little, just little moments. He can choose for me, I don't really mind. But it's been a lot of fun, the Champions League this year. A PSG at the Emirates on Tuesday. Tom, I'll start with you. We've faced PSG already this season.
fairly comfortable 2-0 win at the Emirates back in October. But they are a very, very different team now. Dembele's obviously in there. Kvarets, Keliar is obviously also in there. Is that what's changed? They just look so different from when we played them.
Yeah, I mean, they look like a completely different team. But if you look at the XI that is liable to start the game on Tuesday, it's not actually very different to the team that started that game at the beginning of October. Obviously, Fischig-Valskeller has come in in the January transfer window. The main change, as you say, has been Ousmane Dembele playing in this false nine role, which is terrible.
really been the making of him playing I mean 32 goals in all competitions he has smashed his previous record for goal scoring if we go back to that game in October he was famously dropped by Luis Enrique having turned up late for a training session and Kang In Lee South Korean midfielder started in that central attacking role and
Didn't have a great time of it, like a lot of PSG players that night. And that was a point in the season when Luis Enrique was testing almost everyone in that role. He tried Kang In-Li, he tried Desiree Douay. You know, he was giving everyone a chance. And then finally, at some point over the winter, he gave Dembele more of a run. And that's when things clicked. Yeah.
Yeah. But then apart from that, it'll be the same goalkeeper, the same back four. And then the only change on midfield, I think, will be Fabian Ruiz instead of Warren Zaire-Emery. So on the one hand, I think Dembele being introduced to the team has made a huge difference because he...
that false nine role and exactly the way that Luis Enrique wants whoever's in that role to approach it, both with the ball and without the ball. But I think a lot of it is just the team having had more time to get to grips
grips with the kind of football Luis Enrique wants them to play and also the experience you know of having narrowly squeezed into the knockout rounds in the Champions League you go back to that that game at home to Manchester City in early January where they dominate they fall 2-0 down and then they roar back to win and that was really the moment when things came together so yeah personnel wise not all that different but in terms of footballing identity I mean it's yeah it's pretty much night and day.
Right. Clarky, obviously, I'll ask you about PSG as well. But, I mean, as much as PSG are different, Arsenal are different as well, aren't they? Aside from injuries, we just look like a different team. And we do seem to suit this competition quite well. Oh, we played brilliantly throughout most of the Champions League, I've got to say. Yeah, I think defensively outstanding.
But some really good fluent attacking football as well. Scored a lot of goals. So, yeah, look, we go into it with as much confidence, I'd say, as PSG. The issue with no Gabriel Magalhães feels less of a nightmare now than it did at the time of the injury, doesn't it? Because I think Yaki Kivu was coming in and done really well, actually. Really well. He was one...
The other night, he was one of very few shining lights against Crystal Palace. I thought he was actually pretty good. He did great over the two legs against Real Madrid after a slightly iffy first five minutes. So, yeah, Kivior's different. Obviously, we've got a different striker now. My sense is, and I don't know, my sense is that Mourinho will drop back into midfield for this game and that Trossard will get the nod up front.
That's what I think will happen because I don't see any obvious...
better starting 11 than that. I think if Mourinho stays up front, the midfield might be a little bit weaker. And I don't really want that when you're up against Foutinho and Joan Eves and Fabian Ruiz, who have been brilliant throughout this competition. So yeah, that's how I see it. Tom, what's the feeling like in Paris ahead of this game? I mean, I know you were saying before we went on there, they're a bit upset about the allocation, the away allocation. But
This is a coin toss, isn't it? This game really. And I'm assuming they would see it the same way. Yeah, I think the feeling in Paris is that this is a very evenly matched pair of teams. I think there's a lot of respect for Arsenal. I mean, you know,
As much as PSG have changed since that game in October, I think the memory of that match is still present in PSG minds. And it was very one-sided. And it was kind of typical of the kind of match that PSG played quite a lot in the league phase in that they had most of the ball, but didn't do a great deal with it. They were 2-0 down by half-time, punished by a couple of crosses that they dealt with very poorly.
I think they are very respectful of Arsenal's physicality, their respect of Arsenal's threat at set pieces. Set pieces have been a weak point for PSG in recent years. You go back to semi-finals last season when they went out to Borussia Dortmund and there was this vulnerability particularly to in-swinging corners, in-swinging free-kicks,
I think Jean-Louis Donnarumma the PSG goalkeeper has progressed quite a lot in terms of you know his ability to kind of command his six yard box but he still flaps a little bit he got a lot of praise in the French sports media for his his performances against Liverpool he was obviously exceptional in that second leg against Aston Villa as well when you know PSG were really up against it and really teetering on the brink for a little while but he's still not hugely convincing I
I think at the same time, I think PSG struggled with being favourites against Suston Villa because that hadn't been the role that they'd had against Liverpool in the previous round. And I think that had quite suited them. So I think from a psychological perspective, the fact that they're going into this game and everyone accepts that it's, you know, it's going to be very hard to call. I think that will suit them. And in particular,
the fact that they came so close, you know, to being taken to extra time, maybe even being eliminated against Villa, I think that's really going to, you know, focus minds even more. Yeah. As for Arsenal, Clarky, I mean, first leg,
at home again after the Real Madrid tie. I mean, there was definitely a feeling, oh, it's going to be harder if we have to go to Madrid and get a result. But in the end, is it different now from maybe how it was 10 years ago? It's less of an advantage to have the home leg second. We just don't know. Who knows? But Arsenal wouldn't be worried about going to Paris, I don't think. If you can go to the Bernabeu and win, and win well, really, coped admirably with Real Madrid's attack in the game.
He doesn't get any more hostile than that. They did bring it as well. They really went for it. I know that ultimately they fell short around Madrid, but make no mistake, they were trying. They were really trying. So were the fans. And Arsenal...
Went in there, into the lines then with no fear and they performed. And they can definitely do that at the Parc des Princes as well. So I'm not fussed whether it's which way around it goes, but you certainly don't want to get beat in the first leg. So something similar, I reckon, in terms of maybe a prudent-ish start, you know, making sure you don't give anything away, being strong, assertive.
and then maybe putting your foot on the gas in the second half. That's how I'd see maybe Mikel's game plan. I think we saw enough from the game at Villa Park and actually in the games against Liverpool, but more specifically Villa, home and away. When Villa put the press on and when they won the ball in good areas...
They were able to get at PSG really quickly. Because remember, we'll probably talk about them in a bit more detail, but Hakimi and Mendes like to get forward. And a lot of the time, they'll go central in forward positions as well. That's where they scored their goals from at Villa Park. That means if you can get the ball back and they're not in position, and I think it was...
Teelamon's goal at Villa Park, Hakimi was wandering back into his right-back spot. He was not in that position. So I do think that in behind the full-backs from turnovers is going to be massive for Arsenal. So I'm hoping to see a good sort of mid-block press from Arsenal where they can steal it and get at PSG quickly. And we know we're good in transition because we've been scoring quite a lot of goals. So a PSG...
Like I say, there's so many ways that each team can hurt the other one and we'll talk about that in a bit. But I want to talk to you, Tom, about the way that Luis Enrique has turned the club around. I mean, I think of PSG from a couple of years ago with all the superstars and Mbappe and what have you. And it seemed like a sort of...
Well, for the older people listening, the Harlem Globetrotters type vibe, you know, they had a lot of superstar players, but not much of a team ethic. Whereas now it's, it's, I watched those games against Liverpool and Aston Villa. I thought they looked excellent. PSG, particularly against Liverpool. I thought they were really, really good. What's he done, Lewis Enrique? What's he said to him? How's he sort of changed the culture?
I think it's been something that the entire club has been working towards. You know, you go back a couple of years and I think there was a feeling at PSG that they'd got fed up with the superstars because, you know, you had that era with Mbappe and Neymar and Messi. And yes, you know, they would...
They would walk their way to the Ligue 1 title, but they kept getting found out in the Champions League. And not only that, but so many humiliations, defeats snatched from the jaws of victory time after time after time. Barcelona away. Barcelona away, most notably, but losing at home to a Manchester United C team in 2019. Real Madrid in 2022, they're 2-0 up on aggregate with half an hour of the second leg remaining and they collapse.
and, you know, Karim Benzema basically bundles them out single-handedly. And the fans had had enough, you know. I mean, Messi, Boud, Neymar, fans gathering outside his home, telling him to go back to Brazil. You know, the fans, the match-going fans had had enough and I think the club had had enough as well. And so...
you know dating back a few years now there's been this very deliberate strategy no more superstars young hungry humble hard-working players more french players in particular and there are more french players in the starting 11 now than there have been for a little while at
And Luis Enrique has been given more authority than any PSG coach in this modern era. You know, he works very closely with Luis Campos, the sporting director, when it comes to recruitment. You know, he's not having players imposed upon him that he doesn't want, contrary to what happened with previous PSG coaches. And so he's got this...
incredible squad I mean it's still quite an expensively assembled squad we talk about PSG having moved on from the superstars João Neves is going to cost them 70 million euros Kvaros Gelia cost a similar amount of money Desiree Douy was 50 million euros you know these are players who haven't come cheap but rather than going for the superstars they've been
deliberately putting the ball at the centre of the project for the first time in a little while and getting players who can play the kind of football that Luis Enrique wants with and without the ball. And they've just got complete buy-in from every member of the squad. And as you say, it's made them an enjoyable watch. It's earned them the respect of football fans around the world after years where, if we're honest, in the Champions League, they were a bit of a laughingstock.
Quite, yeah. Spanish manager with young, hungry, humble players. I mean, that sounds like a good idea, doesn't it, Adrian? We've seen that before, haven't we? Can I just ask about the off the ball work? Because I know that PSG have made more ball recoveries than any other team in the competition, which indicates that they work really hard, particularly in midfield. But I thought one of the differences between Arsenal and Real Madrid across the tie is
was that Real Madrid's front line didn't really graft when they didn't have the ball, didn't offer a great deal, particularly at Emirates Stadium. It will be different, won't it, with this PSG forward line? Yeah, completely. And, you know, Dembele is really the symbol of that because, you know, he's having this incredible season in front of goal. It feels like he's
slightly belatedly fulfilling the potential that he's had since he was a knock-kneed teenage winger at Rennes back in the day. But he does so much work off the ball. He's got incredible physical attributes, never stops running, will press both opposition centre-backs, will press the goalkeeper. Kfarashkeli is the same, Doué is the same, Barcola is the same. And we didn't used to have this with PSG. PSG would be attacking in the superstar era, they'd lose the ball. And I remember
watching games at the Parc des Princes, Messi, Neymar and Mbappe just stopped. And Neymar would, you know, occasionally kind of follow the, you know, the fullback back towards the halfway line. But you'd have this kind of team that was cut in half and three lads just standing there in the opposition half with their hands on their hips, watching their opponents try and win the ball back. Now it's the entire collective. I spoke to João Neves this week for The Athletic and that piece is going up.
up ahead of the game on Tuesday. And we spoke a lot about the press and about how they work on it. And it was absolutely fascinating. And the zeal with which he talked about that really struck me. You know, this desire, this hunger to win the ball back immediately is central to Luis Enrique's conception of football. And the players absolutely love it. And Neves, there was almost something slightly different
slightly malicious about the way he talked about making life difficult for PSG's opponents not giving them space not giving them time to breathe and you get the sense that they as players they get almost as much pleasure from that side of the game as they do from scoring goals yeah
I didn't really enjoy listening to that. That's not what we wanted to hear, Tony, is it? No, not really. Sorry. Sorry, lads. Good use of the word zeal as well, I've got to say, from Tom. Excellent. It's great. You don't get the word... Zeal is not a word that is used enough. LAUGHTER
All right, well, look, what we'll do after the break, we'll have a little chat and we've covered it a little bit about where both sides can look to hurt each other. We'll also hear from Art de Rocher, who's watching Arsenal against Lyon in the Women's Champions League second leg. Ian Stone, Adrian Clarke and Tom Williams here on the Athletics Arsenal podcast handbrake off. Come see the Arsenal! Come see the Arsenal! Come see the Arsenal!
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They get a hand-wreck off and you can see that they are more free to play. All right, before we continue with the PSG preview, Art de Rocher joins us to talk about Arsenal's magnificent comeback against Lyon to put their place in the Champions League final. Oh, goodness me! Massive error at the back. Oh, Keesman forwards!
I mean, that was some performance, wasn't it? Yeah, it was amazing. I mean, you mentioned the comeback is becoming a theme. It has been a theme of the women's team for a few years now, I'd say. So I don't think a lot of people are too surprised, but the manner of it was just amazing. And of course, the fact it was against Lyon who've won the competition eight times just adds another layer to it. So yeah, massive credit to everyone involved and I'm sure everyone
Everyone who travelled out to Lyon is having a great time. I mean, I remember watching the Champions League semi-final against Wolfsburg two years ago, but...
this is a more grown-up team. They bossed it. Yeah, I think when you think back to that semi-final against Wolfsburg, it was a team that were massively depleted by injuries. I think four ACLs at that point they had, and then also they were missing Kim Little as well. She's the key, right? She's the key, isn't she? Yeah, 100%. I mean, she just moves about that pitch in a different way to everybody else. Yeah, I think what really stood out...
Even, say, in the first half of this second leg was she didn't try and go like punch for punch with Lyon. She was quite happy to be patient. So whenever she got the ball, she'd actually calm things down rather than kind of, I guess, taking the game into a situation that would have actually benefited Lyon by actually properly attacking them all the time. She actually took a lot of sting out of the game, which I think was helpful for Arsenal. And then you mentioned there just how
how dominant Arsenal were in the moments that mattered, the start of the game, the end of the first half and the start of the second half. I think that's just the perfect timing for them to get all their goals. And yeah, amazing really. Yeah. And the goal from Mariano Caldento. I mean, you just went, I mean, you're watching it and you're thinking, well, I mean, she's got five players around her and she just wallops it, but places it really into the top corner and the goalkeeper doesn't even move. Yeah.
and just before half time as well I mean was that the point where everyone would have thought that's game that would be too good today aren't we yeah 100% because I think to be fair as we mentioned first 30 seconds you could see the intent was there they had a
They won a corner straight away. And I thought Chloe Kelly was exceptional. I think her not being fit enough to start the first leg was a real kind of hindrance to Arsenal. And you saw with her delivery for the first goal, she announced herself again. But that second goal, yeah, the timing was just perfect, I think. And the fact that it was Mariano, I think, was very symbolic of, I guess,
That word you used, maturity, in a semi-final of the Champions League. She's been there countless times. She knows what to do. And I think you just saw someone who...
saw the option he was there and seized it, which I think you could probably only do once you have the experience of doing it before, if that makes sense. Yeah. So yeah, really nice moment. Quite. I mean, there's lots of players you can talk about. I mean, Leah Williamson's just like a Rolls Royce, right? I mean, just the way she plays. And Steph Catley just got in the way of everything. And I thought, I thought she was really impressive. So it was a really, really strong performance. And, and,
What I'm wondering now is how they came to lose the way they did. When you look across that team, you think, yeah, they can beat almost anyone. You know, maybe this is not the time to ask, but you understand the point I'm making. Yeah. To be fair, I was at the first leg and they were still very threatening throughout that game. Yeah. They could have won because they had two very clear-cut chances that they missed. But I think the big difference was in the first leg, they didn't have...
Kelly starting they didn't have Van Domselaar starting in goal either but then also you just saw in those critical moments Lyon had an X factor that they didn't I think this time around they had that X factor in every moment that mattered and
And then once Lyon score, it didn't matter. No, it didn't. Although it was still slightly worrying for 10 minutes or for five minutes. And they went, okay, okay. And one final question. Barcelona are another level, right? From what I've seen. And they certainly were a few years ago. Can this team beat Barcelona? Can they? Yeah, they can. Will they? I don't know. I think, as you said, Barcelona are just a complete different level now.
But I think what will give Arsenal confidence is the calibre of team that they've just knocked out. Record winners of the Champions League eight times, also been runners-up three times, have been the team that Barcelona have actually got the better of in the last few years. So that alone just tells you the step up that they're going to have to take for the final. But there's no point being in a final if you're just going to play to hang on. You have to go for it.
So yeah, hopefully they can go there and give a good account of themselves and be competitive to win. Arsenal return to a Women's Champions League final for the first time in 18 years. Okay, back to Tuesday. I thought, Tom, that the Liverpool game, PSG were excellent. I mean, it was really only Alisson who kept Liverpool in that tie. Aston Villa, though.
They showed they can be got at. I mean, it was very, very close. It was only a couple of outstanding saves from Donnarumma that got PSG through. So they can be got at. How can they be got at? I think that the difficulty from Arsenal's perspective in terms of how to exploit those kind of shortcomings is that PSG have now had that warning against Villa. The ideal thing, I think, for Arsenal would have been for PSG to have crumpled
cruised through the second leg at Villa Park and then had their wobble in the semi-finals. You know, listening to what the players said afterwards, some of them were quite kind of critical of their own performance. I mean, Dembele said, you know, we got carried away. We thought the tie was won. You know, we stopped doing what we've been doing, you know, since the start of the season. And if you look back at that game today,
the minutes leading up to halftime and particularly in the second half, PSG got really sloppy, taking risks with the ball on the edge of their own penalty area. And when they're playing well and everyone's kind of on top of their game, they get away with that. But Villa really put them under pressure.
And they didn't really learn the lesson. They didn't reset at half time. There were already signs of that at the end of the first half. And then the first 20 minutes of the second half was almost one-way traffic. Vitinha, who has been absolutely brilliant, another one of the symbols of this team, had a real shocker
doesn't get anywhere near John McGinn for Villa's second goal Marcus Rashford tiptoes past him en route to setting up the third goal for Esri Konca as if he's not even there and there was this sort of just collective kind of
Yeah, sort of just like dropping off in terms of intensity levels, in terms of concentration. And as Adrian was saying, if you can turn the ball over in dangerous areas and get at PSG, sort of get at the jugular, you can cause them problems. They're very dependent in central areas at the back on William Pacho's pace. Marquinhos is great in the air. His positioning is exceptional, but he's not as fast as he once was. I know that...
PSG are quite wary of Leandro Trossard. There was a big piece in the keep this week. Watch out for Trossard, basically. And again, going back to that game in October, him and Havertz sort of dovetailed at the tip of the Arsenal attack and caused PSG problems with their movement. So I think there are ways that Arsenal can hurt PSG. But at the same time, Adrian was talking before about the fullbacks, you know, both attacking together. I wonder whether, in light of what happened at Villa Park...
Luis Enrique might be a little bit more cautious. There's been a lot of debate at PSG about whether the full-backs should both be allowed off the leash. At the start of the season, it was just Hakimi. Mendes was basically having to play as part of a three at the back when PSG had the ball to provide the balance for Hakimi to go forward. Mendes is so good with the ball as well that he ended up being given the freedom to do the same thing and it might have actually...
unbalanced PSG in a dangerous way. So I suspect that second half, Luis Enrique will probably have watched it about 30 times between now and Tuesday. And I suspect he will probably approach the game in a slightly more cautious way on Tuesday as a consequence of, you know, the warning signs that you saw at Villa Park. And Tom, what about the fact that PSG were looking to go invincible in Ligue 1 this season, but were beaten for the first time this campaign, losing 3-1 to Nice on Friday night?
I mean, Arsenal's league form has dipped since the focus has shifted to the Champions League. Was this something similar for PSG who were at full strength on Friday night? I mean, pretty much, yeah. PSG's recent league form has not been all that impressive. Narrow 1-0 win over Angers at the start of the month. Narrow 2-1 win over Le Havre.
Two teams who were both fighting against relegation. They drew away to Nantes. And then for the game against Nice on Friday, Luis Enrique basically picked his first choice starting XI. And in the main, PSG played really well. I mean, totally dominated the match. Cedric
76% of possession, 13 shots on target. But it was a little bit like the PSG we saw in the first half of the season and particularly in the Champions League. Despite dominating, they weren't able to make it count. Morgan Sanson scored a couple of really nicely constructed goals for Nice. The first one was cancelled out by Fabien Ruiz, but they
but then Sanson got his second. Youssef Ndiaye-Chimier then scored with a free header from a set-piece, and PSG know that that is an area where they are potentially vulnerable and where Arsenal are very strong, so that was not a good sign ahead of Tuesday's game. Luis Enrique was very positive after the game, played down the significance of the results, and you can understand why, because PSG were already...
guaranteed the league title but nonetheless it's a little bit concerning you know in terms of the quality of their football you know the PSG we saw on Friday weren't a million miles away from their best level I don't think but to lose in those circumstances will be a worry this is what I was thinking Adrian I mean I said to Jay
James and Amy, I thought it might be tighter than Madrid. Madrid were so open, partly because Mbappe obviously just can't be asked to try and win the ball back when he loses it. But it's not just him, right? Whereas PSG, as Tom was saying, they might not go for it quite so much because they know what we can do. And they've had these warnings against Villa and Nice in recent weeks. Yeah, I agree. I agree. I think it'll be a tighter game than a lot of people expect because of the quality of
of the two forward lines, you know, Arsenal as well are going to have to be wary because Dembele, we've talked a lot about here today. Dembele, he spends a lot of time drifting to the wide areas, doesn't he? To the right in particular. And who leaves that space open? It's, it's Myles Lewis Skelly with the central midfield position he takes up. So will he stay in field like he did against Real Madrid or, or will he be a bit more circumspect? You know,
I don't know is the answer. I suspect we'll be brave. It's risk and reward though, isn't it Adrian? To a certain extent, you know, if Myles Lewis-Skelly steps into the midfield, we overload a little bit more. We get a bit more joy in there and then we can release Martinelli and Saka and what have you. But obviously it does leave a gap if they turn the ball over.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So no, I think we will be brave. I think he will come in field. But with that, if they turn the ball over, watch out for Dembele spinning down the sides, getting 1v1 with Kivior. And that could be an issue for Arsenal on
on the night yeah look I think I think positional rotation is going to be big Trossard when he plays up front never stays up front so look out for him moving vacating a little corridor for probably Mikel Marino to run into and and you know I think the centre halves will have their hands full with with Marino in the air so I can see that happening Trossard pulling out
popping up inside the box, maybe getting on the end of things. So, yeah, let's see how it pans out. But I'm so excited for the game. Tactically, there's some great duels about to happen. And, yeah, these are two top-tier teams. It would be a worthy final, in my opinion. I think they're both outstanding. And what about physicality, Tom? I mean, you mentioned it before. Do Arsenal have a bit of an advantage over PSG? They've got, you know...
some of the players we've got at the back. They're so physical. We've got a lot of strength in our team. Do you think PSG would fear that a little bit? I think PSG have generally coped quite well against physical opposition in open play because
because although they've got all these pint-sized players, Vitinha, Jorn Neves, they generally handle themselves pretty well. I think at set pieces in particular, it's a shortcoming for PSG. They're not a tall team. They have been bullied at set pieces in the past. It's just very difficult for PSG to cope with
You come against a team like Arsenal, whose set-piece delivery is second to none, who have so many players who are great in the air, albeit no Gabriel. And as much as PSG have made...
I think in terms of the way they defend set pieces, I think that's something that they will worry about. And, and Lewis Henry came in, he was, he was criticized last season for saying that, you know, he, he didn't really have any plans for, for dealing with opposition set pieces. It wasn't something that he was interested in, in working on all that much.
he will know that that's a slight vulnerability. And again, you go back to that October game. Okay, the first goal wasn't a set piece, but it comes from across and Donnarumma charging out. Second goal's a sack-a-free kick that goes straight in. I'm thinking about that game...
at the Parc des Princes against Liverpool for the goal that Liverpool scored as well. And it came from an instance where the goalkeeper boomed it long over quite a high line of PSG for Nunez who wins the sort of duel and then he holds it up for Harvey Elliott to score. Arsenal very good at that in terms of David Raya, you know, taking his time, drawing people on and then going, bosh!
going with a really clean contact into Marino and I didn't think they handled that particularly well at the back and you see against Villa longer balls did pay off to a slight degree is that is that
Another facet of this maybe weakness in the air. Yeah, definitely. And I think when you look at the way PSG press, you have to be creative about how you deal with it. And I thought Aston Villa did that really well. Emi Martinez is obviously a goalkeeper who's very good with the ball at his feet, as is David Raya. And if you can bypass the first...
you know, the first wave of the PSG press, then you get into, you know, 1v1s in dangerous areas and, you know, overloads in dangerous areas. So I suspect that's something that Arsenal will look to exploit as well. This episode is brought to you by Peloton.
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Such a great tactical battle between Luis Enrique and Mikel Arteta. Tom, I mean, they know each other so well, these two. They're friends. I think they get on very, very well. But this is why I'm wondering, do you also think it would be a tighter game than people might imagine?
Yeah, I think so. I think because both teams will be very aware of how dangerous their opponents are. Arsenal will have fresh in mind what PSG did over two legs against Liverpool, what they did against Villa, particularly in the first leg. PSG will obviously know what Arsenal did over two legs against Real Madrid. I think what's really interesting is that generally speaking, these are two teams who won't
who want to have the ball and who were accustomed to having the ball in that game back in October it was PSG who had the ball but you know Arsenal who scored the goals so I think it'll be interesting and I think we'll see very quickly how determined the two sides are to have the ball and you know it could be the case that the
that Arsenal decides the safest way to manage PSG is to let them have the ball, but, you know, try and keep them at arm's length. But as Adrian said, I think tactically it's absolutely fascinating. Two coaches with two quite similar ideas who set up their teams in a similar way. You know, if it is Trossard who starts, then, you know, we'll have two teams playing with a false nine, lots of willing runners in midfield. So yeah, there are similarities there.
Luis Enrique is very conscious of his sort of standing in the pantheon of Spanish coaches. When PSG came up against Barcelona last season, he was asked whether he thought he or Xavi, who was Barcelona coach at the time, most embodied the kind of Barcelona principles. And whereas most coaches, when asked that kind of question, would offer a diplomatic answer,
He just said, oh, it's me. It's definitely me. Look at the stats. Look at the way we play. I'm much more Barcelona than Xavi. So he's, you know, it's not just about winning for him. It's about how you win as well. So I think coming up against...
coming up against Arteta, I think, yeah, that will only add an extra edge to his motivation. Yeah, not many people have said the phrase, I'm much more Barcelona than Xavi, to be fair, I would say. I mean, paraphrasing slightly, but that was definitely the vibe. I know we've covered most things tactically so far, but we haven't discussed the choice of front three that Enrique might go with.
Because there's four. And they're all really good. And they all were outstanding at various points against Liverpool and Villa en route to this stage. I think Dembele, we know he starts. But then you've got Douay, you've got Barcala, and you've got Kvarch-Gellier as well.
Who's on the bench for this one? How can you leave any of them out? I mean, Dewey looks outstanding. They brought him on and you thought, oh my God, he's not even in the first 11. I suspect it'll be Barcola who's on the bench. And I think the team sheet will give us a good indication of how PSG expect to approach this. I think when PSG think they're going to have more of the ball than their opponents, Luis Enrique prefers to have Dewey in the starting 11. But
Barcola is more the kind of counter-attacking option. You know, we saw that in the second leg against Aston Villa. When there's space to run into, there are a few better players in Europe at the moment. It's very difficult to call between
between those three players. Kvarevskéla obviously has that sort of X-factor, scored that incredible goal against Villa in the first leg, has a bit more Champions League know-how than the two French wingers. Doué's been in incredible form and he's been very consistent as well. Ousmane Dembele has not been in great goal-scoring form of late. Kvarevskéla has been up and down and
The guy who always seems to turn up in the big games is Douay. He had a bit of a slow start at PSG, but since he broke into the team, he's been exceptional. He just seems to have a coldness and a composure that really suits him to these kind of matches. So I think it'll be Douay with Barcola on the bench. But yeah, it's not a bad managerial headache to have.
Quite. And as for our front three, Adrian, it sort of picks itself, doesn't it, really? If Marino is going to be dropping back into midfield, both James and Amy said the other day, you know, it's Trossard and Martinelli and Saka. And, you know, Wan-Airi is the option, isn't he, if he comes off the bench? Yeah, I don't think there is a lot of rigour in, really. I mean, Arsenal are still struggling for bodies, aren't they? You've just got to look at the bench. You've got to look at the bench at the moment. And Mikel Arteta doesn't have a lot
up his sleeve does he so yeah Martinelli and Saka Trossard as the sort of roaming striker so in a way you know both centre forwards will be sort of centre forward in name only not going to just stay there
And yeah, I think Wan-Airi is probably not playing quite well enough to force his way in at the moment. But it's a big night for Edegaard, isn't it? I think that there's been little flickers of light there with his performances. He's produced more and more moments in the last few matches of real top quality. He hasn't owned a match yet. He hasn't stamped his mark on it in the way that he did a couple of years ago. But yeah, it's a big night for him. If he finds his top form...
then, you know, fire the bullets for the front three to go and do their thing, won't he? Mikel Arteta said, it was a big night for all of us, isn't it, really? Mikel Arteta said, I want to tell our fans that against PSG, they have to play every ball with us. Bring your boots, your shin pads, your shorts, your t-shirts. Let's play. It's going to be warm on Tuesdays, isn't it? Let's play on Tuesday night all together here to have one of the most amazing nights at the Emirates. Another amazing night at the Emirates. That's what we're hoping for. Yeah.
I'll take mine to the crucible. Yeah, I'll wear my shinny. I promise, Mick. I wasn't going to bring it up again. I wasn't going to bring it up again, but thank you, Adrian. You're right. Yeah, we'll let you know. I'll text you if you're allowed your phone. Tom, you know we have a tradition here at Hand Break Off that we have a song to finish. Do you have something suitably Gaelic?
Bit of Je ne regrette rien or something. Some Maurice Chevalier, if we have any older listeners in. What have we got? I haven't actually gone for something Gaelic as this is the home leg for Arsenal. I'm expecting a thunderous encounter in terms of the pressing and physical engagement.
We'll be in the capital, of course, for the game. So I'm going to go with London Thunder by Foles, which is actually not that thunderous a track in terms of, you know, BPM, but an absolute banger. Yeah, love Foles. Saw him a couple of years ago. Nodded vigorously for an hour and a half. It was absolutely outstanding, I thought. London, the sound of sorrow.
Adrian, what about you? What have you got? Similar vibes, actually. I'm thinking this is a game where you're going to have to be at your max with and without the ball. You're going to have to run very, very hard. When you have it, also need to be dynamic. And when we don't have it, we're going to have to run, run for our lives. So I'm going to go with Run by Snow Patrol. Like that band. Great song.
There's a few little lines in there as well. Light up, light up. There'll definitely be a light show ahead of kick-off. Louder and louder, we'll run for our lives. There's a little line in there. I'll be right beside you, of course, and the fans will definitely be that. So, yeah, run by Snow Patrol. I'll be right beside us, Adrian. We're about 150 miles away, but we get the general vibe.
I wasn't talking about me, obviously. Can't help it, mate. I'm having Gigantic by the Pixies. All right. I always love the Pixies anyway. And this is gigantic, isn't it? It's the Champions League semi-final. First in 16 years for the Arsenal.
And as Mikel Arteta said, let's make it count. Thanks, Tom. Thanks for coming on and giving us your insight. My pleasure. We'll see you jogging. He knows his stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There were a couple of moments when he was sort of upsetting me a little bit. Listen, by the way, you're still here, Tom. But, you know, when you were talking about how good they were. But, no, we really appreciate you coming on. It's all right. You can leave those bits out. You're welcome.
Yeah, yeah, we'll take out all those bits that will scare the living s*** out of the Arsenal fans. And, yeah, we'll just go with that. They can be got at, though. Thank you to Adrian as well, and thanks to J.R. Producer. And enjoy Tuesday Night Gooners. Listen, it doesn't happen very often, so let's make the most of it. And we'll see you on the other side. Ta-ra. Ta-ra.