Authenticity: The Thief (Book 7, Chapter 14)
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Chapter 14, The Thief. Harry opened his eyes and was dazzled by gold and green. He had no idea what had happened. He only knew that he was lying on what seemed to be leaves and twigs, struggling to draw breath into lungs that felt flattened. I'm Vanessa Zoltan. And I'm Casper Ter-Kyle. And this is Harry Potter and the Sacred Text. So Casper, a couple

of announcements inspired by the chapter. So the first one is our Every Flavored Bean, which is for patrons only. So if you sign up for our Patreon, you get this bonus content. Arguably, the children are camping.

on this trip. So what we are going to talk about for our Every Flavored Bean conversation is times that we've gone camping. We just want to be on the record and say that we know that camping under duress is different than the kind of camping that we're going to talk about. We're inspired. I mean, I don't know about your camping trips, but I feel like Voldemort's been chasing me on some of them. I know, sometimes it has been under duress, actually.

So sign up to join us on Patreon and you'll get to hear those delicious stories. And then, Casper, you and I are doing a pilgrimage. We are going to Scotland. And it is our very last Harry Potter pilgrimage. Play the bagpipes. Get your chocolate frogs. We are going to Scotland on a Harry Potter and the Sacred Text pilgrimage. This is going to be our last pilgrimage.

Pilgrimage with Harry Potter and the Sacred Text. So if this is something you've heard us talk about in the past and you're like, ah, maybe one day this is the sign. Come and join us. We're going to spend five glorious days in a Scottish castle. We're going to be reading the Deathly Hallows final book through the theme of endings together. So if there is a big chapter in your life that's coming to a close that you want to mark with a special trip and a beautiful experience of community, come join us.

Go to readingandwalkingwith.com to find out all the details and come join us. We're going to Bonnie, Scotland. I will be singing Loch Lomond at some point on the bus. Otherwise, we won't pay you. So, so. Casper, we are talking this week about the theme of authenticity and you were telling the story. What story do you have for us?

So Vanessa, going back, gosh, maybe 14 years, I was in my twenties. I was living in London and I had a roommate whose name was Matt, who was perfectly nice. He was also very handsome. We didn't know each other well. I'd found him randomly, you know, through Craigslist or something. And he was living with his brother and he needed a third flat.

flat share person and that person became me. And over the years, his brother moved out, someone else moved in. But Matt and I had this kind of long standing roommate situation. We shared a bathroom, shared a kitchen, and we were not friends. Like, I didn't know any of his friends. He didn't know any of my friends. We didn't seem interested in each other's friends. He worked for British Airways. It was like just a totally different world.

And he was very, like, nice. You know, we were polite to each other. But I never felt like I got to know him. And I honestly never really felt like I wanted to get to know him because I didn't really know who he was. He was, like, a polite, handsome guy. Yeah.

Hey, that's all you need out of a roommate. Honestly, that's what I thought too. I was like, this works great, right? Like perfect. We, we, we, we live together just fine. I moved to graduate school and this became a four person house. My good friend Caroline was one of the housemates. One of her friends, Kate was another one. And the final one was this guy called Jonathan. And Jonathan was like a scientist engineer. Like his interests were quite different to mine. And he was

was kind of surly looking like I was a little intimidated by him he was just really busy with his own life I think you know it was a new semester he was doing a PhD he was a busy guy and I remember Caroline and I were like planning a dinner and so I was doing my polite nice thing of how I knew how to be when you live with someone and it's like hey Jonathan do you want to invite some of your friends to join this dinner and Jonathan just looked at me and went like no I was like

Wow, this guy is like so direct, like he's kind of rude. But the thing that I learned with Jonathan was that he always told me the truth. Like he was always authentic about who he was and what he wanted. And there were other nights where he absolutely wanted to join. And it turned out he played the trombone and he like played for us. But on other days, like he was really not in the mood to talk and he would let me know that. Yeah.

So it was this really different experience of someone who was like nice and distant to someone who was like very honest, but I felt really close to. And there's still a picture in our living room of Sean and I dancing with Jonathan at his wedding. And even though I don't get to see him at all often, like, I love that man. Yeah. And I could barely remember the dude.

name who I lived with before, but it was Matt. So I just feel like there's something about authenticity that allows for intimacy, that allows for closeness, even if in the moment you're saying no, or you're surly, or you don't want to invite your friends over. And I think that's something that's really important in this chapter because we see real growing conflicts between the trio. They're suddenly in a place of real stress and

It's not an easy situation. And we're also seeing moments where they're not being authentic with each other. And frankly, the kind of dangerous road that starts to lead us down when we know what's coming with Ron. So I think authenticity is a really interesting lens to read this chapter through, both as a reflection for our own lives, but also because we're seeing what's going to happen to the characters. Yeah.

I know that we only do Etymology Corner sometimes without Matt, but this one was so interesting. It derives from the Greek, authenticos, and it means the original or genuine. And I think sometimes I get lost in like what is authentic because I'll be like, well, I

authentically I want to nap, but more than I want to nap, I also want to be here, right? Like just because we're complicated. What I'm really struck by in your story, Casper, is something you said that authenticity allows for intimacy. And I was just thinking about how virtuous of a cycle that is, right? That the more authentic you are with someone, the more intimate you feel with them, the more comfortable you feel like you can be with them, right? Like

You are someone who I would imagine received that well from Jonathan. And so Jonathan felt comfortable playing his trombone for you eventually because he knew that you would respect his boundary when he put up a boundary, right? And so authenticity is a gift.

that has to be earned. But I agree with you. I would much rather people be genuine with me and I will deal with all of them rather than try to understand what they're saying. Yeah, I think it was the shock of that first no. I was like, wow, I didn't know that was an option. Am I allowed? Yeah.

Or even like if you're gonna say no it'd be like oh I'm so sorry you know I have another plan. That is so kind of you however. Yeah exactly. Oh totally no. And I want to do a special shout out because Jonathan ended up marrying a wonderful woman called Ari who listens to the show so hey Ari. Hi Ari.

Okay, I found this chapter genuinely confusing because it doesn't really have a beginning, middle and end. That's true. So I was like, I really need to make sure that I understand this chapter. So I read it once and I listened twice and I'm ready. Wow. Well, let's start with your 30 second recap and help everyone remember what happens in this chapter 14. Count me in, please. Three.

Two, one, go. So Ron has been splinched and Hermione is like, I can heal him. And they have a tent in the bag. They set up the tent and they're going to, Hermione puts up all of these charms to protect them. And Harry stands guard. And while he's guarding, he has a dream and he sees Voldemort interviewing Grindelwald. Um, or Gregorovitch, sorry. And, uh,

Gregorovitch is like, no, someone stole it. And Harry doesn't know what that means. And Hermione. Hermione. There are so many ancient characters starting with a G. Thank you. It's true. Thank you. Yeah, I get it. Okay, count me in. On your mark, get set, go.

So Hermione has been whisking people away quickly, but then she suddenly feels an arm and it's Yaxley and she's at the steps of Grimmauld Place. And so to get out, she has to whisk away again and they go to a forest. And she's like, oh my gosh, the Death Eaters could find us here too. So let's put up projective

charms but Ron is super injured and the shoulder is totally thing so she has a little potion but like so she can heal him but like she can't do other things in the bag is a tent and the tent is incredible and then Harry has those visions and yes it turns out the thief has stolen the Horcrux no Elder Wand

But we don't know that yet. The Hallows. No, I know. But that's just to give everyone a little context. Yeah. And they can't open the locket. Also very important. They can't open the locket. They can't get back to Grimauld Place. Creature probably has a steak and kidney bean pie that's just sitting there for them. It's just a chapter of details. Yeah, it's a lot. Well, let's talk about it.

We're looking at authenticity in this chapter. Where did you find it as you were reading? So I am really curious. I think Ron comes off really, really well in this chapter. And he is in a lot of pain. He has lost a lot of blood. He is kind of confused. So they arrive in the forest where the Quidditch World Cup happened, having like just escaped the

ministry officials and Death Eaters. And Ron has been splinched. And, you know, Harry remarks that he always thought the idea of being splinched was funny, but like this looks really bad. It looks like a knife has been taken to Ron. And he's lost a lot of blood. And Hermione tends to him really quickly, but he's been severely injured. And he's just like disoriented. He doesn't really know how the mission went. And he passes out at one point.

And, you know, Hermione asks him, how do you feel? And he's like lousy, right? Like, I don't feel well. But he like kind of gets up. Harry helps him get to bed. He asks what happened with the mission. He's just he's very direct. He asks for what he needs. And he I don't know. He's like quiet and like stoic. I think he's really brave in this chapter. And I'm just thinking that often people

People have heard like, oh, their true self came out.

when they were dying, when they were in pain, when they were... And I'm always curious about that. Like, what is our true self? Is our true self our hungry self or our full self? Is it who we are, like, under the worst conditions? That's who we really are? And this is really interesting because I know that Ron's behavior is about to get worse. We know that Harry has the horcrux on him in this chapter, not Ron. But I just think...

If we're looking at Ron's character, under pain and hunger and confusion, he's still really trying to be a good guy. And so can I say authentically that Ron is a good guy? And like, this is his baseline? You know, like, when do we freeze our judgment of someone? That feels like it opens up such a big question of like, yeah, what is the self, right? Because is every thought that I have

authentic when I'm writing in my journal and I'm angry and I'm putting all my feelings down in there or I'm kind of like discovering what I think about a situation or discovering how I feel about a person. I'm writing all sorts of things down and only once I'm looking at them am I like, is that right? Is this right? So like, what does it mean to be authentic? Like, I

Like, I love the kind of internal family systems model of therapy because it doesn't situate a single self, but that there's many parts of ourselves. And so when we say, well, a part of me wants to go to the party and a part of it doesn't, it's like, yeah, there are literally different parts of you and they want different things at different times. So in that context, like, is there a deeper, wiser, all loving, all compassionate, all curious part that

That's who we are authentically. Well, in that case, Ron is that and Hermione is that and...

you know, Yaxley is that and Draco is that, right? Like, that part is in all of us, one hopes. So how do we then say, "Well, you were being authentically yourself when you said no to joining my dinner party," versus like, "You were bullying me in the playground." Like, is that also-- You know, I just don't know where this conversation leads us of like, well, what really is authentically you? Something that Ariana and I have as a policy is we don't judge people for their first thoughts.

I guess I'm just thinking, you know, there's a philosopher who I studied over 15 years ago. So please forgive me for everything I don't remember about him. But his name is Charles Taylor, and he has a book called The Ethics of Authenticity. And he argues that it is a privilege to have authenticity as a primary value and that it

Not only is it a privilege to have authenticity as a primary value, but that it's highly individualistic. Like sometimes it is ethical to live as authentically as possible. And other times like asking yourself, what do I authentically want in this moment is actually not the ethical question. I am compelled by that, that like there are times that I absolutely want

someone's whole authenticity. And I don't want people to keep parts of themselves locked up.

And like this moment isn't about you, right? Like the fact that you are mildly uncomfortable when someone else is having a bigger need. You don't always need to bring all of you into every situation. And so, yeah, I just know that we're going to go on this ride with Ron in this chapter. And there is something about him being injured and hungry and still really trying to be kind and

that I just want to take a snapshot of it and say like, I kind of think that this is authentically wrong.

for whatever that's worth yeah I find that really compelling and also especially because our generation as millennials like the big brand value that was used to kind of market to us was authenticity right like that was the sign of success and so like what do you lose when we privilege authenticity is is solidarity right because it's so much as as you were saying it centers a

our own choices and as our own personal expression and that's not a bad thing but like in extreme it starts to not take into account other people's needs and and desires this relates so interestingly and maybe we're jumping ahead a little bit but

the moment where Rom pulls the sword of Gryffindor, that speaks to like, he is an authentic Gryffindor, right? Like this is who he is. And so again, the house system complicates my understanding of authenticity because it privileges particular traits as kind of like a core identity rather than, you know, those, us all having those things and choosing to develop one or the other. So I want to remember this conversation when we get to that chapter. Yeah.

This makes me think so much of another character who's not actually in this chapter, but is in the background, which is Creature. Because the text tells us like, oh, the trio figure out that like it's too dangerous to summon Creature because who knows how self-magic works and maybe there's a trace on it and the Death Eaters can find them. So we're kind of having to leave Creature behind. But we are left feeling like, what is Creature's authentic identity?

response, right? Death Eaters are now probably in Grimmauld Place. Is he switching back?

and being like, ha ha, yes, I can serve the Dark Lord once again. Or is his relationship with Harry and maybe even Ron and Hermione authentic enough that he's like, no, I have a new master. I will serve Mr. Potter, you know. And literally like legally how self magically what can he physically authentically do? Right. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know either. This to me is like,

something that my therapist and I are working on. 'Cause I'll be like, "No, I can do that." And she's like, "Do you mean you physically can literally do that? You can physically withstand that?" And I'm like, "Yeah, that is what I mean." And like, that is like my bottom line sometimes of what I think is authentic. And she's like, "Does that mean that you should do that?" Right?

And I think that Harry is asking two questions in this chapter. Can literally creature break a vow to me or like how does how self magic work? Will whoever comes into the house be his new master? How's that going to work? And then authentically, what is he going to want to do?

Right. Like that's another like authenticity battle that I think that we all have of like, yes, I can go to another wedding. I can go to another party. Should I, you know, for my mental health or, you know, where are the boundaries and limits of these things? I love the metaphor of the magic of this relationship.

because the magic is ambiguous and the love is ambiguous and the loyalty is ambiguous. And it is because of trauma and history and systems, right? Like for all of these real reasons. So true. I'm also just suddenly thinking about this from Kreacher's perspective, which is like he has finally grown to trust and like at least Harry and it seems like the rest of the trio. And then they suddenly disappear. Yeah.

And like, he's been so neglected for so long. There's no explanation. There's no warning. Does he even know that they're going to do this plan? Maybe. I think so. But like, what's his experience of what's happening now? You know, so like just his feeling of like, does he feel betrayed? Does he feel left behind? Like,

you know, just thinking about how he would respond to the Death Eaters coming in. Does he actually just want company? And like, he's pretty much okay with whoever it is, as long as they treat him well. Who knows? Yeah. I mean, I do feel like someone in this chapter who is very authentic in terms of clearly communicating her experience is Hermione. Yes. It opens with her

literally saying my hands are shaking. Like I can't open this. Can you please get this item from the bag? Like I can't do this because I'm freaked out. I'm scared. I'm doing the best I can. I need your help. Like that kind of honesty I found really disarming again, because Hermione is such an incredible leader and so competent to have her just like straight up acknowledge her shortcomings so understandably in this moment. Yeah.

It felt like Jonathan to me. Like it felt like someone just being really direct and clear about,

what they wanted, what they could offer, what they couldn't. And it also then helps Harry be a good partner to her in setting up camp in these very stressful conditions. And I'm curious, yeah, if you saw Hermione as like authentic in these moments. I don't just think she's authentic. I think she's like so beautifully reduced. And I mean that like when you reduce a stock, right, to something really pure. Yeah.

It's like she's so overwhelmed that she just starts listing things that she knows are true. Right. It's like, OK, I don't know if we're safe here. So I should probably do some charms and I'm going to do everything I can. I'm worried that I will hurt Ron if I try more. So I'm going to do less. She keeps sort of opting to do a little bit less.

Than usual. How I read it is that.

she's scared that because she's in panic mode, she's going to do too much and regret it. And so she's just trying to do a little bit too little, right? Like you get the sense that like she's only picked the mushrooms that she is a hundred percent sure won't be poisonous. And there are some that she's pretty sure aren't poisonous, but she's just not going to risk it. She's in a like very risk averse place. And I find it,

I don't know, you know, like you've really taught me this phrase of right size. And I think that she's not making herself overly too small in this moment of fear. She's worried that she's just messed up, right? That she like showed Yaxley Grimald place, even though she didn't do anything wrong. Right. But she's like, I could spin out about this.

And so I'm going to be slow and deliberate. I think you're so right. I think it's so much about her being scared. I think she's really afraid of what might happen to Ron and knowing that she doesn't have, you know, all of the healing powers maybe necessary to make sure that that he's okay. And yet even here, she still follows Harry's lead, right? Like,

They're both aware that the last time Hermione took them somewhere, that was the top of her mind, right? In Tottenham Court Road, the Death Eaters were right behind them. And so there's this unspoken moment between Hermione and Harry where they're like, uh-huh, this was the first place you thought of. Like, could not be great. And Harry says, let's stay here for now. And the text tells us, looking relieved, Hermione sprang to her feet. So she's kind of waiting for that permission from Harry to like...

really care for Ron, for Ron to become the priority. And the first time I read these books, like I don't think I was aware of that growing, deepening commitment between Hermione and Ron. And the more I reread them, the more I'm seeing that build and build and build and build. And this feels like another really powerful moment, which is, you know, going to make the next few chapters all the more painful when we see them separated. Yeah. I mean, it says,

Hermione was watching Ron fret over the fate of the catamels, and there was such tenderness in her expression that Harry felt almost as if he had surprised her in the act of kissing him. Yes. Tender. I guess that's what I think this chapter is. It's a very tender chapter with a lot of fear under it. And just knowing that what's going to happen...

Yeah. In the coming chapters, it's before they are really wearing the horcrux regularly. I almost want to take a snapshot of it and be like, guys, these are your authentic selves. Like, look how well you're collaborating. Look how kind you're being with each other. Look how patient you're being with each other. Like things are going to happen and circumstances are going to get so hard that you're not even going to be able to tap into your authentic selves. But this is,

This feels real. I want to take like an emotional photograph for them. Yes. And Harry too. I like all three of them, I think because, you know, with the mushrooms that she finds, you know, Ron doesn't eat them, but Harry, uh,

only persevered so as not to hurt Hermione's feelings. So I feel like that generosity is happening all around the triangle. But I love that. Yeah, like holding on to this memory as actually their authentic selves in the midst of really, you know, ever more difficult circumstances. And that they can get through really difficult things. This is not like, look at how great you are when things are great together. This is them hungry, tired, injured, scared. Right.

And they're still doing great. And so it's like there's only so much we can ask of each other before I think we become right. Like the animal, just like hungry, tired version of ourselves that, yeah, I think that we should just have nothing but grace for.

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Huggies, we got you, baby. I guess the thing, right, is that authenticity, and I really like what you said about family systems, like it's which truth do you want to live into? And sometimes there's only one truth for you to live. There are circumstances in which

It is like, say your truth or really or perish. Voldemort is evil, right? Like we do have to stand up and say only one truth. But it is both true that Harry authentically hates what he's eating and loves Hermione more than he hates what he's eating. Totally. That's one of the things that was helpful for me, kind of learning more about internal family systems therapy is that you can recognize...

I guess that kind of like deeper part or the capital S self by the various Cs. They talk about like, are you, you know, is that part of you compassionate? Is it curious? Is it calm? Like those are all indicators that

that kind of deeper part of you is present. And if you're feeling ashamed or if you're feeling judgmental or if you're right, like that, that those are signs that maybe there's another part of you that's present, but it's not that deeper part that I think we're pointing to in to each of the trio having present in this chapter. Yes. Where they are generous with each other, where they are compassionate, they're curious, they're calm, even in these difficult circumstances. I love those words, compassionate, curious and calm.

So Casper, we are doing the sacred reading practice of Havruta in which I will bring you a question and an answer. So my question is, what do we make of Ron in this chapter not wanting Hermione and Harry to say Voldemort's name? Yes.

So it is going to turn out that Ron is correct, that Voldemort has sort of like cursed or jinxed his own name because he knows that the only people who feel really comfortable saying it are like Harry and Dumbledore and now Hermione, that it's order members who are close to Dumbledore who feel comfortable saying his name. And therefore it kind of has a trace on it.

And Hermione, out of respect for Harry, is starting to save Voldemort. And Harry wants to save Voldemort. And Dumbledore has taught him that fear of the name creates fear of the thing itself. And Ron, because he is injured, they are like giving in to Ron. And they're like, fine, you don't want to say his name. We won't say his name. But this book series has a recurring theme of people being dismissed who it turns out were right all along.

So Hagrid is like, dragons aren't scary. And it turns out that dragons aren't scary unless you try to steal a mom's baby from it. And that a dragon will actually fly you to liberation when you need it.

And Trelawney, you know, is like actually a truth teller and is a seer and everything that Trelawney says comes true. I think that this series of novels really does complicate who owns the truth. And so I'm wondering what we make of the fact that Ron is correct, that we shouldn't say Voldemort's name.

And my answer is a pretty conservative one that is probably informed by the author and what she's up to in the world. But is that I think what one reading is, is that if you grow up in a culture, you just understand intuitively these little things that are like invisible to people who didn't grow up in the culture.

And you can't even explain them, but it is right. Like these micro truths and that what Rowling is rewarding in Ron is actually, ironically, his pure blood status. The fact that he was raised in a wizarding family, that he just knows that this name is cursed.

So interesting. Yeah, it really strikes me that there's a sort of reversion, right? Like we've seen Ron be this kind of brave leading figure and he really feels like a wounded child and which is appropriate. He is literally a wounded child in this chapter. He's literally a wounded child, exactly. But he's like, why risk it, right? Like, why are you doing? Can we please just... But the thing that he says, and maybe this is my answer, is that

He says we have to give him some respect. Yes. There's something in his answer that is...

A little admiring, not of his purposes, but of his power. Yeah. And that I think is also informed by the fact that he grew up in the wizarding community in a way that Harry and Hermione didn't. But there's something about like the dude can literally do magic that no one else can do. Yeah. And that deserves some sort of admiration or even if it doesn't deserve it, I do admire it.

even against my better instincts. I am scared of it. I'm scared of it. But it's more than scared of it. It's like, I'm a little bit proud that someone can do it. You know, like it's... Gotta give him his dues. That's how it feels. It's like you can't ignore the dude can do magic. One of the things that's happening in this chapter is that Hermione and Harry know that they have to lock it. And Ron doesn't know that until the very end. I know. Nobody literally tells me anything that's happening anymore. Aww.

And so there's some interesting relationship here between like Ron feeling like left out and yet also with really powerful insights about the magic world, right? Just like we've seen in the previous few chapters. Oh, he knows that people who work as custodians in the Ministry of Magic wear dark navy blue robes, right? It's that kind of knowledge that ends up being helpful. So I'm compelled by what you're saying. Yeah, absolutely.

I have this battle internally with Trump, right? Because part of me is like, I should call him President Trump because he was elected. And what I have respect for is elections. And I want to respect elections. And then part of me is like critical enough that I'm like, well, part of being an American is that I don't have to call him any single thing. Like, and that's part of my freedom, right? And so, yeah, there just is something to me about Ron being most of this world, right?

that he's like, I most understand the limits. Like the fact that nobody else has done this, guys.

Like my parents, grandparents, great grandparents, like nobody else has talked about anybody like this before. Right. Like there's just, yeah, there's just this like bone knowledge that you have if you were raised in a culture and like raised in the majority in some way. Do you have a question inspired by this? I guess another part of the Voldemort's presence in this chapter that I am curious about is, is he at all aware of Harry's,

knowledge of the visions, right? Like, is he... In this chapter, we have quite a complicated kind of narrative section in which Harry enters Voldemort's consciousness and he's interrogating Gregorovich and then goes into Gregorovich's memories to see this moment where this thief falls out of the window with the thing that he's taken. And so, like, if you're Voldemort, you're interrogating someone, you're going into their memory, like...

in the same way that Harry is conscious of the heartbeat in the Horcrux, is there something, if Voldemort was smart enough to pay attention to it, of like this other consciousness being present in his own? And like, I guess I'm asking a question neither of us can answer conclusively, but it is interesting to me as Voldemort is now chasing the Hallows, like, is he, is that in part because he feels like

more vulnerable because he knows that they're hunting Horcruxes. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is there actually more of an emphasis on Voldemort's new strategy because of his awareness that the trio are hunting Horcruxes? And what's your answer? I think it would be naive to assume he's not aware of Harry's presence.

right like he's literally used that as a weapon before and so even if he's not aware of it as a presence he's aware of it as a possibility right like yes he is he has kind of blank spots in his strategic awareness but this feels like an open goal if he's not thinking about it yeah it just makes me think that the trace that's on his name i feel like there's a sense of like

a trace being on Harry's consciousness too in some way. Like, even if it doesn't tell him where Harry is, he might actually be aware of what Harry is at least seeing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it seems like

At minimum, Harry takes up a lot of space in Voldemort's head rent-free. Right? There's a part of a movie, it's such a silly thing to come to mind right now, but in the movie Say Anything, this young woman goes up to another young woman and is like, I'm glad you were valedictorian, but I just want to thank you because knowing you were there always gave me something to aspire to. And you didn't know about me, but I was always competing with you. Ooh.

Right. And I feel like Harry does that for Voldemort, right? Like Voldemort is like, Harry is hot on my heels. So I got to shore up all the problems. I have a lot of horcruxes, but maybe he knows about them. So I'm going to hunt the hallows.

And like Voldemort's mistake is actually that he doesn't respect Harry enough. That's right. And so he underestimates Harry. But I think that knowing that a like baby Dumbledore is out there is, yeah, it's like sharpening Voldemort's skills. It's why, right? Like you don't even want people to know that they should have their guard up. Yeah. Oh, I like that reading a lot. Thanks for leading this conversation, Vanessa. Thank you. Always so juicy. Yeah.

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It's time for us to hear from one of our listeners, and this week's voice memo comes from Nora. Hi, Harry Potter and the Sacred Text team. This is Nora from Jacksonville, Florida. My kids and I read our chapter every week together at a local restaurant across the street, and we just finished reading After the Burial.

through the theme of failure from Half-Blood Prince. And I had kind of a revelation that I wanted to share and a blessing. When Harry was in potions class, he was asked to make a potion that would...

amused Slughorn and he made euphoria. And Slughorn, when he was talking about it after the fact, said, I really don't know where you get these brainwaves, my boy, unless it's just your mother's genes coming out in you. And I had never, ever considered the fact that Lily and Snape must have collaborated on potions. They were friends. They both had great intuitions.

when it came to potion making. And I bet that some of these notes are not just Snape's. There are things that Lily also thought of. And it made me appreciate Harry's position. I lost my mother when I was a teenager and I missed all those teenage things, you know, talking to her about college or getting married. But now that I'm in my mid forties, now what I'm realizing is that I really want to talk to her about

how to raise teenagers and about when she went through menopause and all that kind of stuff that I never would have considered in my twenties. So this is just a blessing for anyone who's lost a parent, especially one who lost one young. You never know.

what you're missing, the experiences and knowing about what your parent went through when they were your age. It's really a bummer. So anyway, thank you so much for all that you do. My kids and I love this podcast and I appreciate it very much. Thank you.

Nora, how gorgeous. First of all, I love that you get together and eat and read your chapter and talk about it together in such a beautiful ritual way. But I love this insight too. I'd never thought about that. And props to Slughorn for giving us this insight. Love that guy.

Yeah, of course there must have been mutual influence. And even if it was always Snape's handwriting, like the insight may have come from a time in potions when they were working together or Lily's creativity or Lily's sensitivity or Lily's courage in trying something. Like I can totally see that. I think it was another listener voicemail that pointed out that it's possible that Lily being so good at potions might be why Snape loved potions. Oh! Oh!

And I know I love unpacking this more and more. And I think, Nora, to your point, like then it becomes infectious and Harry starts to sort of love potions because of this connection, right? The ways that positive relationships can make everything better. Guys, you heard it here first. Yeah.

Well, also just the fact of like, if you have excellent teaching, right? Like you fall in love with something that you, or if you discover a capacity in yourself, you didn't know you had because someone teaches you well, like then you fall in love with that subject. I, yeah, I just, I really appreciate this insight, Nora. Thank you. And I'm so glad you're enjoying the show. We're so happy to have you with us. Thank you.

It's now time for us to remember members of our community who have been loved and lost. And this week we remember Vilma Schockman, who was 96, a mother, a gran, great-gran, and lover of stories and games. Elizabeth Legault, who was 42, a Snape supporter throughout all seven books. Biz was an unapologetic dinosaur lover and the weirdest, most wonderful friend, sister, and mother.

Hazel Dawson, a deeply loving and loved wife, mother and granny, and Cove Byer, who was 18, a caring dinosaur lover and son. May their memory be a blessing.

And we too get to offer a blessing, Vanessa, at the end of this episode. Who would you like to give your blessing to? I would like to bless Hermione because at first I was like, oh, this is so sweet and humble that she's like, I could do more, but I'm scared I won't do a good job. And I was like, oh, she's actually just fully being a doctor. First, do no harm. Even when Hermione is humble, she is fully stepping into some sort of beautiful authority. Snaps for Hermione. And just...

Thank God she has this beaded bag, man. I just, what would we do without you, Hermione? I just am going to thank her every time for the beaded bag. How are you, Casper? We didn't talk much about this, but I want to bless Gregorovitch, right? We see him be murdered in this chapter. Just another victim in the ever-growing list of Voldemort's victims. And...

I feel like we probably as readers haven't been given the greatest impression of him, you know, partly for his association with Durmstrang. There's complicated

Elements that I don't fully understand. There's just so much that's unknown. But like he must have been a very skilled wand maker and someone who was passionate about his craft and had something stolen from him and was killed for it. You know, just an awful another victim in this horrific scene that we were navigating. So a blessing for Gurevich and Ariana Grande.

For giving us the famous line, Ron's been splinched. Next week, we're reading Book 7, Chapter 15, The Goblin's Revenge Through the Theme of Reconciliation. Ooh.

Just a few reminders before we give our thanks. You can find ad-free episodes on Apple Podcasts, and you can learn more about our programming at NotSorryWorks.com. This was a Not Sorry production. We are a feminist production company. We are sponsored by the Fetzer Institute. I am the executive producer, and we are edited and produced by AJ Aramas. Our music is by Ivan Paizao and Nick Bull, and we are distributed by ACAST.

We really love our Minerva's Book Club members, Averill, Amanda C., Amanda S., Amber, Amy, Ashley, Danny, Emile, Esther, Gregoire, Casey, Kelsey, Kreeti, Kyle, Marina, Nadia, and Sita. Nora, a huge thank you for your wonderful voicemail this week and our wonderful team as well. Ariana Nettleman, Julia Argi, Nikki Zoltan, Courtney Brown, Matt Potts, Anissa Ahmed, Danny Langley, and our wonderful Stephanie Paulsell. Bye, everyone. Bye.

Can you do your Hermione impression? Do you know what I'm talking about? Ron's been splinched! That? Been splinched? Happy Ron's been splinched! Oh my god, there is something in the nose! Ron! Ron! There is, what is that? No, I can't!

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