Boundaries: In Memoriam (Book 7, Chapter 2)
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Chapter 2, In Memoriam. Harry was bleeding. Clutching his right hand in his left and swearing under his breath, he shouldered open his bedroom door. There was a crunch of breaking china. He had trodden on a cup of cold tea that had been sitting on the floor outside his bedroom door. What the? I'm Vanessa Zoltan. And I'm Caspar Ter-Kyle. And this is Harry Potter and the Sacred Text.

So Casper, we have two announcements today. The first is, as you know, we are wrapping up Harry Potter and the Sacred Text.

And what we have sort of offered to our audience is the replacement of our flagship show is our new show, Let's Ask Taylor Swift, which was originally called Taylor Swift is a Sacred Text. Like that is the point of the new podcast is that we're treating Taylor Swift's lyrics as sacred. And so if you are at all interested in sort of, you know, making sure that you're not going to totally miss us next year,

you can hop over to our Let's Ask Taylor Swift podcast feed and subscribe over there. So fun. Yes, check out Let's Ask Taylor Swift and practice sacred reading with a new text. But in the meantime, season seven continues here. And Casper, our other announcement is that our Every Flavored Bean Extra conversation this week continues.

This was your idea, so you have to tell the people. Listen, I love this chapter. It's all about Elphias Doge's letter. And so we wanted to, on air, live, write our own kind of eulogizing public letter that would be printed in the newspapers about each other. So I will sort of eulogize Vanessa and she will sort of eulogize me. It's going to be a lot of fun. Come join us. So if you want to hear the weird stuff we're going to say about each other...

Go to patreon.com slash Harry Potter sacred text. This is going to be a trip. I think it's going to be very meaningful, actually. Very tender. So prepare yourself. There may be tears of joy.

Caspar, you are telling a story this week through the theme of boundaries. What story do you have for us? So Vanessa, we of course became friends while we were both graduate students and later we both lived with undergraduates. So we were saving money by not having to pay rent, but in exchange we had to make sure that 28 18-year-olds did not die.

And one of the lovely students who lived down our corridor was, in English, we would say a cheeky chappy. He was an athlete. He had highlights in his hair. He knew he was handsome. And I liked him because he kind of knew how to talk to adults, right? Like he wasn't afraid of me. And so it was fun and easy to talk to him. And he was very confident out in the world.

So confident that maybe he was not always the best judge of where the boundaries were of what behavior might be appropriate. And he one day thought, you know what's going to be really funny? If I, with all of the kind of stress of finals and exams and everyone talking about working hard at Harvard, what if he climbs onto a building site in the middle of campus and

grabs a hard hat and takes a picture of himself on like a mound of rubble and posts a picture of himself on Instagram saying, you know, hardly working at Harvard. And of course, I mean, kind of funny, but really the dumb move was posting it on Instagram. And so very swiftly he was called into, you know, the university administrator's offices and said,

really kind of, they came down very strong on him. It was a building site, right? There are real risks if you climb onto equipment or if you, especially at night, things can go horribly wrong. He climbed onto like a mountain of sand. Like it really, like really was not that big a deal, but the university treated it in this really serious way. And so I needed to figure out

Do I respond as a university administrator and like hold the line with my bosses who are taking this very seriously and talking about, you know, potential suspensions and all of this kind of stuff? Or do I respond as someone who like lives next to this guy and knows that he is a totally fine kid and that this was just a dumb move and kind of laugh about it with him? And I think...

that is constantly a question with boundaries, right? Like here I am in a role and I have two instincts. What

One of my favorite writers, Walter Brueggemann, who's a scholar of the Hebrew Bible, talks about conditional and unconditional covenants. So like, is it my job to maintain the rules here or is it my job to stay in relationship with him? And I chose to do the second. I was like, I don't think it's my job to be like Mr. Bossy Boots and make him feel even worse than he already does. Like he's embarrassed. There are going to be some serious consequences for him.

So I kind of laughed about it with him and I was like, dude, I totally get it. Maybe not the smartest move, but like you and I are fine and I will help advocate on your behalf. And so I think that's an interesting place to think about boundaries in this chapter because what we're seeing in this chapter is a lot of re-evaluating of boundaries by Harry as he's learning more about Dumbledore. And I think that's what's so important to remember about boundaries is

They are living things. Like, it's not like you put it in stone and it has to be that forever. And I worry sometimes in the way that people talk about boundaries these days, that they are really inflexible and that it doesn't allow for growth or for forgiveness or for the need to increase them, you know, but that they are living things. And that's what I was faced with in this situation with the student.

And I'm not sure my bosses would have agreed with me when I responded, but I feel really good about what I did that day. Yeah. And also, I know you know this, but part of why you were able to do that is because of your privilege, right? Like-

You're a handsome white man who is good at chatting with people with more authority, right? And so you knew that this was a conversation that you would potentially be able to finesse with your bosses, right? Whereas somebody who was a proctor who had less privilege than you might have had to handle that differently. And so I think boundaries are fuzzy for all of those reasons, too. Mm-hmm.

I mean, I absolutely remember moments in which I chose my student side against the university. And there was once, and I really don't remember the context, but I remember saying to one of my students, you are asking me to risk my housing for this dumb thing you did.

And no, right? And yet there were other things where I was like, no, I will risk my housing in order to do that for you, right? And I am fascinated when relationships are fuzzy like that, like they were between Dumbledore and Harry, right? Like I was headmaster and student, but also they were like traveling together. And right, like we were technically their freshman advisors and could punish them, but also they were our,

Our neighbors like we were living with them. So there are all sorts of ways that boundaries become really muddled and complicated 100% so the etymology of boundaries before we go into our 30-second recap Which is a boundary amount of time it dates back to the 13th century. It is an external limit that limits space or circumstances

Or it can be figurative, like feelings, right? That's where the bound comes from. And the a-ree is connected to. Oh, interesting. So it's connected with the idea of a limit. And that's it. And that's it. That's it. I learned something already. Huh.

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They say opposites attract.

That's why the Sleep Number Smart Bed is the best bed for couples. You can each choose what's right for you, whenever you like. You like a bed that feels firm, but they want soft? Sleep Number does that. You want to sleep cooler while they like to feel warm? Sleep Number does that too. Why choose a Sleep Number Smart Bed? So you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. Sleep Number Smart Beds start at $999.

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Need dinner in a snap? Grab zesty lime shrimp salad, mango turkey burgers, and more from Prepared Foods. And, of course, there's the Mango Yuzu Chantilly Cake. Explore the tropics and save at Whole Foods Market in-store and online.

Well, Vanessa, it's time for our 30-second recap. Just to remind everyone what happens in this chapter, because it's kind of an unusual little sidestep from the narrative, if you will. Are you ready to go first? Yes, sir. 30 seconds on the clock. Here we go. Chapter 2, Book 7, recap starting now.

So Harry has decided that he is going to really unpack and clear out his trunk. And while he's doing that, he rereads an interview with Rita Skeeter in which she says all sorts of really dodgy things about Dumbledore and implies all sorts of things. And he also rereads the eulogy by Alpheus Doge in which he learns a lot of different things about Dumbledore. And what he's really left with is this sense that

Like, he didn't really know Dumbledore at all. He didn't ask Dumbledore any questions. And he has a lot of regret with his grief. Very good. I mean, I didn't get into any details. Yeah. No, it's good. It's

It's good. It leaves some room on the canvas for me to add some color, one might say. Yes. Yes, indeed. Okay. Are you ready? Yes, ma'am. Stay within the 30-second boundary. On your mark, get set, go. Harry is unpacking. He cuts his hand on this little piece of glass, which is this mirror. And at the end of the chapter, he sees like a blue eyes. And he's like, oh my God, was that Dumbledore's eyes? No. But he also, as you said...

finds all these... He's been keeping newspapers looking for news about Voldemort, and in it he finds these other pieces of information, including this long letter from Althais Doge, who talks about how he remembers Dumbledore, how they went on a big... They were going to go on a big trip together, but then there were all of these tragedies, and all of these people died in Dumbledore's life, and Harry's like, oh my god, I didn't know any of this. Look at you. You are just...

A star in our midst. You know, all a star does. No, that's not true. It's what a moon does is reflect the sun. That's what I wanted to say. Stars actually create their own light. So yes, yes, it's true. I'm just very far away.

So Vanessa, in this chapter we find Harry alone in his room, he's kind of making it through the summer, he's desperate for news from the outside world, he's going, you know, through these newspapers in a rush. This was a gross detail. He's unpacking his trunk for the first time properly since he was literally 11 years old. And so I don't even want to know what's caked on the base of that trunk.

But one of the few kind of creatures that he engages is, of course, lovely Hedwig. And what struck me with Hedwig is that while he is kind of bounded, right? And he's bounded in a hundred different ways, physically in Privet Drive, but also because he's...

about to come of age, so he's not allowed to use magic yet. But then he, in turn, is kind of keeping Hedwig in her cage and she is fainting sleep and is probably a little frustrated about that and is like not responding to him in the way that maybe she usually would. And so there's sort of a little retaliation there. But I wondered what you made of this kind of boundary that Harry is putting on Hedwig. Yeah, it's interesting what the line is between keeping someone safe

And holding them prisoner and how much that's in the eye of a beholder. Yeah. Right? Like, I don't know. I think about that a lot with my dog. I'm like, you're on a leash so that you don't run into the street. Right. But also, it means you can't run around right now. Or, right, like with kids and...

You know, with elderly folks, we often restrain people for their safety and put up a boundary for their safety. And the idea is that that safety is going to keep them freer, right? That there's no...

Such thing as total freedom, that freedom always has to be a little bit bounded. Otherwise, it's going to do any number of things, including encroach on somebody else's freedom. But if my mom still kept me in a playpen, right? Like at some point, boundaries do need to change. But like, is Hedwig in danger? No. Well,

going out would endanger him, which would endanger her, right? Like, it's precautionary. He's not being punitive. He's not trying to lock up Hedwig. He's not putting up a boundary around Hedwig for no reason. It's not you know, a 9pm curfew for absolutely no reason. But curfew is actually an interesting thing, right? I think that sometimes part of the reason that parents put up curfews is because they're like, well, nothing good happens out in the world past 1am. But the other reason is, is like, I don't want

up worrying about you past 1 a.m. I would like to only stay awake until 11 and I don't sleep well unless you're home. And so Harry is like, I'm not going to sleep well if I think Voldemort has a higher chance of finding me because I'm letting you fly around. So right now I'm restricting you as part of my freedom. I really remember this when the kids were losing their teeth.

And I was like, early to bed tonight because I wanted to do the tooth fairy and go to bed. Right? Like they're allowed to stay up later than I do. But I was like, no, but I'm tired. So you have to go to bed so I can do the swap. Right? Like sometimes we put boundaries on people to create our own freedom. And I think that that's what Harry is doing in part with Hedwig.

That makes a lot of sense, yeah, because it's-- I don't think she's under a lot of danger or in a lot of danger here. It's really about his own sense of his own risk. Well, and, like, more of the Order would have to protect him, right? -Sure. -Like, there's a lot at risk. But I also think he wants her company, right? Like...

That makes him sound bad.

Well, I just, I think that's part of the deal is like, I think he's really lonely. Like the text doesn't tell us that, but like, that's what I see in the behavior at least. Yeah, I think that says more about you than Mary's relationship with Edwig. How about you? What struck you in this chapter?

And just staying in the Dursleys' house for a second, I just saw a moment of a shifting boundary, which is Harry cuts himself on the mirror that was Sirius's gift, where he is, we know, is seeing out before it's eye, but he doesn't know that. So he cuts himself and so he leaves to go to the bathroom to get tissue or whatever to address his wound and trips over a cup of cold tea.

And we piece together later that Dudley has actually been leaving tea for Harry. Harry's not really leaving this room. And Dudley has this new orientation toward Harry that we're going to see evidence of soon. And it was trying to do a nice thing. But because Harry was not aware that there was the shift in boundary, it seems like an assault. It seems like a booby trap that has been set. Yeah.

And it just made me realize that we have to communicate changed boundaries because boundaries are part of the vocabulary of how we communicate with one another.

And so if you don't tell people, oh, there's this new updated definition of what I do, it can really be misconstrued. And so part of me is like, well, Harry, you should be assuming good intentions. And then it's like, well, you should not be assuming good intentions in Deadly. You have no reason in 17 years of living to assume that this is anything but a booby trap. That's really interesting. Yeah. And for non-English listeners slash readers, let me emphasize that the cup of tea is

is sort of the ultimate, I can't do anything about the problem that you're experiencing, but like, I'm showing care. Like, let me make you a cup of tea. Now, key to that is that it is warm. Because we also don't hear, at least the text doesn't tell us, was there a knock? Was there like, Harry, I brought you a cup of tea? Exactly like you're saying. There was no message with the action. And so it just feels like, yeah, you're opening the door and now my foot is wet and there's, you know, sharp.

of porcelain everywhere. Yeah. So it's, I think it also reveals the clumsiness of Dudley trying to find out how do I communicate to Harry, right? How do I renegotiate this boundary? Which actually helps me celebrate him all the more.

Because very soon we're going to see him actually use his words, right? He's going to, he's going to, he's not just putting gold cups of tea around the house. Like he's going to say, I don't think you're a waste of space, right? Like he's, he's figuring out how to communicate this change of boundary that he wants to, yeah, he wants to navigate. I don't know. There's a, there's a sort of maturation story, I think in this little moment too. Yeah. It's also interesting.

Interesting when we want to let a shift in boundaries go unnamed and like test them, right? You like go in for the hug with the friend who you don't usually hug and you suss out like, oh, did they respond? Yeah.

well. Whereas if you're like, I'm now going to try to hug you, right? That might work for some people and not for others. Like there are times that I think just sort of testing a new boundary without necessarily talking about it is also effective. But sometimes you have to be like, and now I'm going to relate to you in a different way. I just had this conversation with Colette Potts. I park at their house and come in and out of their house a lot. And I always text or call first. And she was like, please stop doing that.

Like, please, please just do the things. It is annoying. My answer is always yes. Yes. Right. And I was like, that would make me really uncomfortable. And she was like, okay, can you please text informing me rather than asking me?

me so that I don't have to respond. I like that. And I was just like, sure. And like, she wanted this big shift in boundaries where she's like, just come and go as you please park whenever you want. And I was like, I feel so bad. But she's like, I'm really tired of texting you back. Yes. Every single time. And I'm like, that's also fair. But I do think it would have been weird if I never spoke that boundary and just started walking into their house.

Well, let me tell you about a boundary being broken that I do think is really weird in this chapter, which is we have this very kind of show-offy, salesy interview that a journalist does with Rita Skeeter about her many hundred pages of book drivel that she has written about Dumbledore to kind of expose the- In like a week.

In so fast. Like, clearly pre-written, you know, all of that kind of stuff. But it's supposed to expose Dumbledore as some sort of fraud. So she keeps making all of these promises like, oh, it's all in the book, but you, you know, you won't believe or people who like Dumbledore, you know, will be upset because...

And the thing that struck me just in the theme of boundaries was that she is blatant about the boundaries she has broken, the ethical boundaries, I would say, she has broken to access information. Specifically, she says, you know, it's amazing what gold, you know, what a big bag of galleons will do. So she has bribed people to talk.

And to me, what that illustrates is like, well, if money is changing hands, like, can you really believe, first of all, that someone is telling the truth, right? There's an incentive for them to spin a story that Rita Skeeter wants to hear. And I mean, we know that she has no scruples to access the information she wants from way back in book five. But the thing that made me think about this was like, there's so much conversation about like, what kind of media can we trust? The lack of media literacy for us as readers or watchers of news.

and the importance that the means and the ends cohere. So if you are reporting fact, then the way you access those facts has to be in line with like factual behavior. Like you can't massage the truth or you can't like pay for the truth. I don't think in order for that to- - There's strict ethics. - Exactly. Like there has to be a trust in the process in order for there to be trust in the product. And what struck me here was that

Skeeter seems to think that's not the case. Right. She thinks that her audience is like, oh, because I've bribed people, that's how they're going to tell the truth. And it just, it just revealed in some way, like a deep lack of trust within the wizarding community, even, you know, before, and of course Voldemort has already risen, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But like, it shows the

cracked fundamentals in the kind of public discourse. Wow. I sound like I'm at an Aspen ideas panel here, but like it's, but,

But that's what this revealed to me, this little moment. Yeah, I totally see that. I think another possible reading, maybe a less valid reading, is also that they don't care. They're like, "Bribe? That means it's gonna be a good story." -Like, right? -Is it true or not? -Right, I don't care. -I don't care. Right? And there are celebrity biographies that I treat like that, and then there are ones that I take very seriously, and I'm like, "I'm so glad that this was a really well-researched biography."

And I know what I'm getting into. So I think that you are right that at this point there's, you know, and I mean, this could just be all refracted through the media landscape that we are currently looking at where there are audience members that are like, well, the fact that Fox News is paying that person means that they want to keep their job. And therefore, right, like if you believe in capitalism as an ethic.

That, you know, everything can be seen as beneficial through that lens. That X is actually the truest form of truth because people are speaking directly to you. There are all sorts of ways to justify things that we think of in communications theory is outside of ethical norms in order to get information. Interesting though, right? Like these things, these boundaries are created, right? Like...

The ethical boundaries around journalism 200 years ago were totally different. People were writing anonymous... Like, Alexander Hamilton was writing anonymous slandering pieces about Thomas Jefferson, right? Like, that was just, like, something you were allowed to do. And so these aren't objective boundaries. They are evolving. Totally. And on the flip side, right, the control of the state of the free press, for example. Right. You know, not...

certainly historically, but also today. And you're right. Like, I mean, Skeeter does say whether it really was in the boy's interest, referring to his relationship with Dumbledore, we'll see. And like,

yeah, there is a lot about their relationship, which was not in Harry's best interest in a lot of ways, not out of ill will from Dumbledore. So I like, I don't want to say like, oh, you know, ultimately it's worth it, but yeah, it's, it's not like we shouldn't have exposes or that we shouldn't have, you know, deep reporting where, yeah, people do use a fake identity to become part of the Proud Boys to expose a, you know, network of Nazis. Like,

I'm maybe leaving this conversation with more complexity about the ambivalence of these boundaries. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Raise the rudders. Raise the sails. Raise the sails. Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over. Roger. Wait, is that an enterprise sales solution? Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title, and more. We'll even give you a $100 credit on your next campaign. Get started today at linkedin.com slash results. Terms and conditions apply.

Hey, this is Paige from Giggly Squad, and this episode is brought to you by Nordstrom. Nordstrom is here to help you dress in a way that feels totally you with the best spring styles. From boho dresses and matching sets to must-have bags and sneakers, discover thousands of items from lots of your favorite brands.

They say opposites attract.

That's why the Sleep Number Smart Bed is the best bed for couples. You can each choose what's right for you, whenever you like. You like a bed that feels firm, but they want soft? Sleep Number does that. You want to sleep cooler, while they like to feel warm? Sleep Number does that too. Why choose a Sleep Number Smart Bed? So you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. Sleep Number Smart Beds start at $999.

Prices higher in Alaska and Hawaii. Exclusively at a Sleep Number store near you. See store or sleepnumber.com for details. Now find island-inspired, limited-time flavors at Whole Foods Market for the Explore the Tropic sales event. Enjoy pre-marinated mains like mango coconut salmon and pineapple teriyaki chicken and pair them with seasoned, ready-to-heat beans from a dozen cousins. Need dinner in a snap?

Grab zesty lime shrimp salad, mango turkey burgers, and more from prepared foods. And of course, there's the mango yuzu chantilly cake. Explore the tropics and save at Whole Foods Market in-store and online.

I mean, can we talk about Dumbledore a little bit? This is a Dumbledore chapter. Like, let's get into it. I think that we see a couple of moments in Dumbledore's life that are really about boundaries, mostly through the letter of Alpheus Doge. So Alpheus Doge, one of Dumbledore's dear old friends. They have been friends since their first year of Hogwarts. They were both outsiders to

and bonded over that. And we find all this out because Doge, it knows that this Rita Skeeter biography is about to come out. And so he publishes an op-ed in the Daily Prophet to be like, don't believe what Rita Skeeter is about to say. Like, here's my account of Albus Dumbledore and he was a good man and, you know, gives a little bit of his perspective on Dumbledore's biography.

And one of the things that Doge tells us is that he and Albus were about to go on a world tour. Like, could not be a less boundary time, right? Like, two 17-year-old guys with money and magical powers about to go anywhere in the world.

And Dumbledore's mother died and suddenly he had to be brother and father, right? And he couldn't leave. And his world went from being as unboundaried as it could possibly be to the most boundaried it would ever be of like, he cannot leave this house.

And then Doge tells us that even more tragedy struck, which is that Ariana died, Albus and Aberforth's younger sister. And that, to some extent, releases Dumbledore from boundaries, right? He can now travel again. He can now do things again. And yet this, like, restriction is emotional of just, like, crippling grief. And so it was just making me think that, like,

Sometimes you think that something is a noose around your neck and you certainly wish that it was different than it was, but that doesn't mean that you wish that it went away. Boundaries can feel oppressive and then...

at least the circumstances by which you have them, you know, can feel precious at the same time. Yeah. And it had started in so many ways earlier with the imprisonment of his father, you know, the kind of scandal of the family that he enters school with before he becomes this kind of incredible student in Doge's telling. Yeah. The other place with Dumbledore that really struck me as a boundary piece

kind of theme was his withholding of information at school initially about his father. You know, he doesn't deny it, which I think is interesting. So he's not like undoing information, but he doesn't go into it. He doesn't indulge questions about it. And it's clear to his friends, like, don't ask about it. And they don't. And what's struck me about that is that that's really a pattern for

for how Dumbledore engages all of his relationships, at least the ones that we get to see on the page, right? Harry, in his reflection on all of this information, is like, "The only question I ever asked him that was personal is the only time I think he lied to me." Right? What do you see when you look into the mirror? Now, we know maybe that he didn't lie, but it-- The older I get, the more cold I am.

All the time. Suddenly those socks really make sense. But to Harry, it feels like an evasion. And I think that's what we're seeing even at a young age, at 11, 12, 13 years old. And certainly later, right, Elphia says, you know, I went off on this trip. That's the time we were in least contact. And that's, of course, also the time that Dumbledore has this intense relationship with Grindelwald, who he never mentions, right, in his letters to the traveling Elphia. So it was just this pattern of...

Boundarying information. Not sharing about his family. Not sharing about his most meaningful thoughts or feelings. With even his closest friends. And so we're seeing a character. We're seeing Dumbledore really as someone who ends up isolated in the way that we know he is. Even though he holds all of these important roles. Right? On the Wizard and the God. In Hogwarts. Other people think maybe one day in the ministry. While maintaining these boundaries of information. And I wonder...

Was that just a pattern that he grew into and that's how he knew how to be in the world? Was that a continued strategic decision of like, well, if I share information, then I'm vulnerable to people who want to attack me or take me down. Like, what do you think that's about? Especially later in life? I mean, obviously, I have no idea. But I do think if your dad commits a crime when you're 11 or younger...

And a crime that you feel very ashamed of, right? That you learn to not talk about certain things. I think often these are patterns that we learn as kids for various reasons. And we often have extreme reactions to it where we, you know, talk all the time about it or we don't talk at all about it. Right. Yeah, if you have some sort of like big shameful thing or something, not that it's shameful, something that you feel ashamed of. Right, right. Having this big reaction. Yeah.

Makes sense to me. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like there are all sorts of reasons that he might believe in discretion. And then, you know, discretion, of course, becomes complicated and starts being secret keeping and withholding. But, you know, if you're the headmaster, you have a lot of student secrets. If you're on the Wissengamot, you are like, you know, there's attorney-client privilege. Like, you get practiced in...

compartmentalizing and like not you know I am a great secret keeper of other people's secrets

And I am a horrible secret keeper of my own secrets. And so I can imagine, though, that eventually getting integrated, right? Like if I had to regularly keep secrets as part of my job. Yeah. My older brother works in a job. He works at a hospital. And so there's a lot of HIPAA compliance. And I feel like he is excellent at being like, that is not something that I discuss with you. Not just HIPAA stuff.

But like, issues that he's having, you know, in his house with his family, he doesn't necessarily talk about with us, his, you know, nuclear family of origin. And I do think that those things just train your brain eventually. I'm so with you. The only reason why I think there might be more strategy than just kind of like built-in habits

is that his relationship with Aberforth does change, right? There's this break after Ariana's death, like a very intense kind of like, yeah, a big change in their relationship. But according to Doja's letter, there is a softening of that. And they don't become close, but they become cordial. I don't know. They become close enough that Dumbledore has an exit from the school that goes directly into Aberforth's bar. Yeah.

I mean, that is pretty close. Or at least, like, there's a functionality. Like, I don't think necessarily there's, like, an emotional closeness. Yeah, but they're a deep allyship. Absolutely. And so that was an interesting example for me of, like, a boundary shifting. Probably on both of their parts, right? Like, I'm sure Aberforth filled with rage, filled with hurt, anger, after what happened to Ariana. And yet also, maybe some...

or at least rapprochement, I don't want to say forgiveness, that's probably too big. But that was interesting to me that in this relationship for Dumbledore, there is movement. And so this is one example where there is some flexibility in the boundaries for Dumbledore, or I guess it reveals that boundaries are always something that you keep negotiating over time, right? That they are alive, like in the way I was telling in my story.

So Casper, it is time for Sacred Imagination, where we are going to ask everybody to try to imagine themselves into the scene. So imagine you are on Privet Drive. You are unpacking your trunk completely for the first time in six years. I feel like we've all had this, right? We're in our childhood bedroom and we're sorting through our old stuff.

That is where we are starting. And so you can be Harry, you can be Hedwig, you can be a fly on the wall. And we're going to talk about what it is that you notice. Harry sat up and examined the jagged piece on which he had cut himself, seeing nothing but his own bright green eye reflected back at him.

Then he placed the fragment on top of that morning's Daily Prophet, which laid unread on the bed and attempted to stem the sudden upsurge of bitter memories, the stabs of regret and of longing the discovery of the broken mirror had occasioned by attacking the rest of the rubbish in the trunk.

It took another hour to empty it completely, throw away the useless items, and sort the remainder in piles according to whether or not he would need them from now on.

His school and Quidditch robes, cauldron, parchment, quills, and most of his textbooks were piled in a corner to be left behind. He wondered what his aunt and uncle would do with them. Burn them in the dead of night, probably, as if they were the evidence of some dreadful crime. His muggle clothing, invisibility cloak, potion-making kit.

Certain books, the photograph album Hagrid had once given him, a stack of letters, and his wand had been repacked into an old rucksack. In the front pocket were the Marauder's Map and the locket with the note signed R.A.B. inside it. The locket was accorded this place of honor not because it was valuable. In all usual senses, it was worthless, but because of what it had cost to attain it.

This left a sizable stack of newspapers sitting on his desk beside his snowy owl, Hedwig. One for each of the days Harry had spent at Privet Drive this summer. He got up off the floor, stretched, and moved across to his desk,

Hoo!

It's always so surprising to me. What happened to you? Well, I was Harry. First of all, my body was so much bigger than the space was designed for. You know that feeling of like, oh, it was a small bed. Like, oh, what used to take me like three steps to the desk, now I'm like doing in one and a half. So first of all, my body was just bigger in the physical space I was in. And then secondly, I just...

I felt like I wanted to cry the whole time. Like, I was just managing my emotions in the-- Like, the anxiety, the sadness, the rage. Like, I just felt like so much feeling in my body that I could barely contain. And the unpacking and the kind of...

it's stress packing, right? Like it's, it's avoiding dealing with the thing that's really real, which is the death of like this father figure, this mentor, this guy, this person who's going to help me defeat the world's most evil being. And what I can do is like unpack this old trunk.

Because it's actually not rational. Like at first I was like, oh, it's so gross. You haven't unpacked your thing. But you're moving the trunk by magic. Doesn't matter how much stuff is in there. Right? Well, he's moving everything to a backpack. He's not taking the trunk. Well, that's a good point. Well, he's doing this.

Sorting his stuff. But there's a sort of like, I guess what I felt was like I was being very anxious. Like that's what I was feeling. I was feeling like I don't want to feel my feelings and I'm going to do this task so I don't have to feel my feelings. That was my main takeaway. You're right. He's taking out the things he needs. He's not repacking it. That's fair. No, no, no. I mean, I think that that is a valid reading. Yeah.

I read this as like necessary packing that he's been kind of putting off. To me, it was really hot in there, right? It's middle of summer. And when you're like moving stuff around, it's like dusty. And you don't realize how dusty it is until you see some dust in a beam of sunlight. And you're like, oh, my God, that's disgusting. I'm just putting that in my lungs and like, oh, that was in all my stuff.

And what was interesting to me, right, were what he considered helpful and what he didn't. That he's like, the locket is useless, but the Marauder's Map is helpful. I'm like, why? You don't need to know where people are at Hogwarts anymore. And we know that the only thing he's really going to use it for for most of the book is to keep track of where Ginny is, just to see Ginny's name. Right.

If we're going pure practicality, obviously he doesn't need this photo album. There would be all sorts of... Or the RAB locket. Right. There's so much. Yeah. Yeah. And I would pack all these things too, right? But there's just this internal packing logic that happens. And...

He's irritated, wondering what the Dursleys are going to do. I felt very irritated, right? Like I'm sneezing because of the dust. It's hot. Hedwig's not talking to me. I, Vanessa, hate packing and unpacking because it makes me confront how much crap I have. And then it's going to go to a landfill or...

Or I spent money that I shouldn't have and it's just like wasteful. And so I'm like sweating and dirt is sticking to me. And like I have a cut on my hand, but I have to do this because I'm moving. Right. Like one of the reasons that he has, he hasn't had to clean out his trunk.

He's just going back and forth to school, right? Like there's this comfort. And he now kind of has to because there aren't going to be house elves taking his trunk for him. He's going to have to carry this on his back. And so he's got to get everything into a rucksack. I really see this as like not wanting to do a chore and finally doing it.

I love that our relationships to packing are being revealed by this very scene. Because for me, it's about like, oh, I'm putting my life in order. Like, I have an overview. Like, this is something I can control. Right? This goes here and I roll up the t-shirts and so they fit really nicely. Like, I have my whole system. I'm the kind of person who has a whole second set of toiletries that's just always in the bag so I don't have to pack my toiletries.

So like for me, it's about like managing anxiety. But it's so interesting that for you, it's this sense of irritation and like this task that has to be done, but like you don't want to do. But he's not packing for a trip. He's packing for moving, right? Like... Well, he's packing for his life. Like he doesn't know what he's packing for. And moving doesn't stress you out? Oh, no, 100% it does. Okay. You're right. I guess it was just...

This sense of like, this is something I can control. Yes. In so much that I don't feel control over. That was my main kind of, I just felt like I wanted to cry. Like that's, that, it was, there was so much emotion I didn't know how to handle as Harry in that scene. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. And to me, I was just like irritated by everything. Yeah.

Which probably both of those are true for Harry, right? He's in such a rollercoaster situation. And it's funny to think that like, oh, Harry's big feelings. Like, of course, he's been feeling big feelings since the first day we met him. But like, these are...

just so extreme you know he's really just being thrown around in the waves of life whenever we focus in on Harry in this way my sense of compassion for him just like expands like a hundred fold it's such a powerful practice for that I think don't you love

Don't you also think it probably smells a little bit like bird poop? Like Hedwig has been pooping in this cage. Like this room is gross. Yeah, it's definitely gross. A teenage boy plus animals. Yes. Yeah. And like at no point is it like and the breeze from the window, you know, just like in his door is closed. I just was like suffocated in there. And he's listening to Green Day. Yeah.

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They say opposites attract.

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Prices higher in Alaska and Hawaii. Exclusively at a Sleep Number store near you. See store or sleepnumber.com for details. This week's voicemail is from Chelsea. Hi, Vanessa and the rest of the Harry Potter Sacred Text team. This is Chelsea, and I'm calling about Book 6, Chapter 24, Sectumsempra, which you all read through the theme of impulsivity.

It's always struck me as odd that Snape is the person to show up when Malfoy and Harry duel. And I started to think this chapter, listening to you all talk about how Harry has been stalking Malfoy, kind of, is Snape also stalking Malfoy? He's also trying to know what Malfoy's up to, how to help him, how to inform Dumbledore, right?

And I also started to think through the unbreakable vow that he took. And I wonder if Malfoy being in mortal peril was something that brought Snape to the bathroom. Was Snape just also looking for Malfoy and trying to keep tabs on him and heard the fighting? Curious what you all think.

Chelsea, I love this theory. Love this. Yes. I think you're right, Chelsea. Yes. I think that because of this unbreakable vow that he's made to Narcissa, that he really is constantly around Malfoy. But what I had never thought about is that, like, that might save Malfoy's life, right, in the bathroom. It might have actually...

Narcissa asks Snape to kill Dumbledore for Malfoy or to protect Malfoy. And that ask actually does protect Malfoy in more ways than one. And maybe also ends up shifting Narcissa's, right? She's already disobeyed in some important way. Yes. It lays more of the groundwork for her kind of betrayal at the end of this book. Love this, Chelsea. Such a good reading. Thank you.

It's now time for us to remember members of our community who have been loved and lost. And this week, we remember Ali, who is 41, a knitter, gymnast, NPR and Harry Potter fan, and a wonderful mother and friend. The 10 victims of the Ouroboros shooting that occurred on February 4th, where the youngest victim was 28 and the oldest was 68 years old. To the friends and family of the victims, the world grieves with you and we send our love.

and Winnie Knipper, who was 92, a rebel, collector of people, artist, and mum. May their memories be a blessing. Well, Vanessa, it's now time for us to bless someone from this chapter, and who would you like to give your blessing to? I want to bless Harry. He is trying to input so much information. He's in my personal version of hell. He is packing. He is stuck in a house he doesn't want to be in. He...

He can have anxious energy. He can't do anything about anything. He has so much grief to process. This is actually designed to be my personal hell. And he doesn't have podcasts to listen to or romance novels. He is just like alone with his thoughts and his worries.

And I just, man, I always think of this part of the book as the calm before the storm. This is not calm. This is horrible. And so I just want to bless Harry for...

being stuck in this moment. Yeah, gosh. What about you? My blessing is for Alpheus Doge. You know, we see him... Well, first of all, being belittled by Rita Skeeter, but the reason I want to bless him is he's mourning a dear friend. You know, he is also a man of a ripe age, and so I'm sure he's confronting his own passing at some point. But by eulogizing Dumbledore in the way that he does...

I think he's helping so many people who are missing Dumbledore find a sense of coherence, right? Like, understand the man better. And I think that's partly what we look for when we go to a funeral, for example, is like, tell me your stories about this person. Like, help me know this person. Help me know that what I knew was real. And that's what he's doing for Harry here, even though there's so much other information. Like, there is a sense of like...

okay, this was a real man who was beloved, who was important, and it's okay that he was important to me and that I feel so awful. And so I guess just to anyone who's lost a dear friend and to anyone who's, you know, helping other people grieve, I feel like there's a blessing for you and a blessing for Alphys Doge in this chapter. Next week, we're reading Book 7, Chapter 3, The Dursleys Departing Through the Theme of Vulnerability.

Just a few reminders before we give our thanks. Our annual class, What Matters, is on sale now. There are very limited spots for this class and you get one-on-one chaplaincy with Mauricio Bruce. You get to do sacred reading with me. You get coaching on storytelling with the great Michaela Blossom.

It's a really special cohort-based class, and you can get a spot now by going to NotSorryWorks.com. And, of course, you can get ad-free episodes on Apple Podcasts. This was a Not Sorry production. We're a feminist production company, and we are sponsored by the Fetzer Institute. I'm the executive producer, and we are edited and produced by AJ Aramas. Our music is by Ivan Paizao and Nick Boll, and we are distributed by ACAST.

We love thanking our Minerva's Book Club level patrons, Averill, Amanda C., Amanda S., Amber, Amy, Ashley, Danny, Emile, Esther, Gregoire, Casey, Kelsey, Kreeti, Kyle, Marina, Nadia, and Sita. Thank you so much to Chelsea for your voicemail this week. Ariana Nelliman, Julia Argi, Nikki Zoltan, Courtney Brown, Matt Potts, Anissa Ahmed, Danny Langley, and our beloved Stephanie Paulsell. Thanks, everyone. We'll see you next week.

he was not always the best judge of where the boundaries were of what behavior might be appropriate. And because he was quite- He sounds a lot like his proctor. But very straight and on the water polo team. Okay, okay, okay. Very different. Very different.

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