Integrating Ayurveda: Bridging Ancient Wisdom with Modern Medicine
28:21 Share

Welcome to the WebMD Health Discovered podcast. I'm Dr. Neha Bhattuk, WebMD's Chief Physician Editor for Health and Lifestyle Medicine. Today, we're exploring the concepts of an ancient medical practice known as Ayurveda, which literally translates to the science of life. We

We all know that health is not just physical or mental alone. More and more, we recognize that both the body and mind weave together how we experience our symptoms. Being healthy is a whole person exercise,

more than just managing one organ system at a time. That's the framework for the ancient practice of Ayurveda, a practice that tackles not just our symptoms, but also the roots of our worries, aches, and underlying conditions. In today's episode, we'll discuss how it pairs modern medical knowledge with

age-old wisdom about balancing daily rhythms, emotions, and physical health. Imagine unlocking a more personalized guide for living, one that embraces everything from the spices in our kitchen to the sleep schedule that we maintain on a regular basis, while also examining how stress and past experiences

influenced our entire healing journey. We'll talk about why so many people, including those with chronic health conditions, are turning to integrative approaches like Ayurveda, which some might argue can be seen in some more

modern scientific approaches like lifestyle medicine rather than relying on prescriptions alone. Whether you're grappling with everyday annoyances like bloating or fatigue or more serious health concerns like autoimmune issues, you'll hear how aligning your body's natural cues and rhythms can transform your understanding of health and well-being. First, let me introduce my guest, Dr. Siva Mohan.

With an MD and background in neuroscience and behavioral change, Dr. Mohan presents a unique East-West mind-body version of Ayurveda. She guides her audience to an individualized wellness lifestyle with tools and approaches from Ayurveda, psychiatry, and functional medicine. Welcome to the WebMD Health Discovered podcast, Dr. Mohan. Thank you for having me. So I'm really excited about

for our conversation today. But before I jump into that, I'm curious about where your journey to Ayurveda and really sort of practicing it as part of your clinical practice started. Well, yeah, it's quite a journey that it took.

I went into psychiatry because it really spoke to me. I felt like psychiatry was one of the few specialties where we could actually spend more time understanding how people's lives affected their health. And then I went on to do a master's in public health program.

working in international developing settings where we were really looking at social, cultural, climate, community-based factors that were affecting health parameters and designing solutions for them. So

I do feel like I always had this sort of big picture understanding of I'm meant to look for root causes of disease and focus there and that I wanted to really attend to those upstream factors beyond

before they developed into chronic degenerative, chronic inflammatory cancerous processes, for example. And what was really interesting is that as I was on this journey, I developed many of those myself. And so I had a whole list of pretty serious diagnoses in my mid-20s.

And as I was traveling in very remote places, it was the women coming to me with their indigenous healing remedies from nature that were really what was helping my symptoms. Whereas allopathic medicine was only offering me immunosuppressants and a whole array of pharmaceuticals that really I would have to be on for the rest of my life.

without truly attending to root causes or having many alternatives that had less side effects, right? So that was very eye-opening for me. And that's what also drew me back to that same cultural heritage that you have of being raised in a house where my grandmother was always going to the kitchen for a natural remedy for whatever happened and a passion to study the indigenous culture

healing culture and practices from India. So that then led to studying Ayurveda. And I really had no idea that

That would lead to an integrative platform, if you will, down the road. It was really a personal journey that led there. But Ayurveda very much is all about understanding root causes, the bigger picture, how our lives are impacting our health. So although I just viewed it more reductionistically as a natural remedy source before Ayurveda,

I now see that it's a very good set for what was my original sort of drive in healing. Really just so beautifully said, and I really appreciate you sharing that story with us. So can you define some of these terms that we're using? So can you give us a brief introduction to what is Ayurveda, the philosophy, the historical roots, before we dig in more into the science of it?

Sure, absolutely. So Ayurveda is actually credited with being the oldest healing system documented within human culture. And so anthropologically speaking, they have traced back every different healing system, including Greek.

Hippocratic medicine, which allopathic medicine is then derived from, tumoric medicine. So I sort of view it as the mother healing science. And there are written records 5,000 to 10,000 years old.

It's amazing what they knew about the body, about nature, about the planets and how all these systems really fit together back then. I think that today, you know, if you Google what is Ayurveda, it really gets,

that's almost put out there at a type yourself and live this way, type yourself and buy this product, type yourself and eat this food, type yourself and take these herbs. And that could not be further from what I believe is the true essence of Ayurveda, which is more of a living awareness of where am I at? And what do I need to feel well today? So that's

This idea of typing yourself is a very constitution centric idea. But the truth of the matter is, I'm going to bring in any therapeutic intervention. It's all based on where I am today, not how I was made.

So if we look at constitution as sort of everyone's born with their unique shade of color, we don't really need to treat the shade of color. That's more just to understand, oh, you're this shade. You go well with these things. You don't go so well with these things. Right. Nice for self-awareness.

and long-term understanding of our tendencies, our probabilities, almost like the genetic component, if you will. Whereas we have a concept in Ayurveda called current state, which is more where are you at today? What are the patterns happening in all the different parts of you today? And that's the place where, which we would bring in therapeutic interventions with routine herbs,

mantras, et cetera, et cetera. So you can see why this idea of typing yourself is more of a mass marketing thing that happened that almost is one of the biggest myths now about what Ayurveda is, whereas it's really

a path to self-realization in and of itself. It is about learning what your patterns are and attending to them in kind with personalized approaches to shift the patterns that you want to shift and to support cultivating patterns that you want to bring in that support your unique

energy ball of a being. So listening to you, we're talking about different components of what makes you a human being in this world. So we're talking about the physical aspects of your body, your interest in sort of psychiatry, your training in psychiatry. So we've got the

the mind-brain-body-mind connection, and then there's a spiritual piece of it as well. I'm really curious, how do you hold this in to the way that you practice today with someone coming into your clinic? Where do you start with this approach?

Oh, that is such a great question because this really has had to evolve over time, you know, and there are a lot of practitioners, even in India now, when Ayurveda came back out of being suppressed by the colonial regime for 300 years, which is like five or six generations, it came back in these very Westernized sort of high-tech medical institutions. And so it's almost like pulse, tongue, speech,

script, very allopathic in its practice and very reduced to the physical layers in India even. And so there are many people who focus on that and they focus very much on just the physical body. For me, everything that's happening in the physical body had a root cause in either lifestyle or emotional wellness and likely both. That's where all of our root causes are.

So when I began my work with somebody, and I'm very unique in this because I do have the training in the psycho-spiritual arts with yoga, with Ayurveda, and with psychiatry, I do want to know everything that's happening in the patterns in their physical body, what's happening with your digestion, with your sleep, with your skin, which diagnosis you have, but also understanding what you have taken in

in through your life experience what traumas we went through in our earlier years and what our stressors are presently all matter they

they are affecting us, right? And so understanding all of that helps me then point to, okay, this pattern in the body has a root cause here with this pattern in your lifestyle. So let's simultaneously attend to the patterns in the body with natural remedies and tools and practices, but also address

the root cause pattern in the lifestyle. That's when true healing happens because otherwise this swapping out for a natural remedy is very beneficial. Obviously, we have less side effects. We have the fact that every Ayurvedic remedy inherently includes rejuvenation. And so if you rejuvenate a tissue system, it's going to function more optimally. So there is sort of a healing element already within the natural remedies.

So that in and of itself is great and beneficial. However, if everything in lifestyle and everything in the emotional realms remain the same, we've got the nidus for the disease pattern in the body still present and likely we'll see a recurrence of those patterns.

So there is the option for symptom alleviation, but there is also the option for going deeper and addressing the root causes and removing them or shifting them. And that's what creates true healing, which we don't have that opportunity in the allopathic setting, unfortunately.

Then let's go into a little bit of concrete examples of how you incorporate Ayurveda into someone who is also seeing a medical provider who's practicing allopathic medicine. So how do you see those two pieces working together? And can you give us some concrete examples? For example, if someone comes in with metabolic syndrome or prediabetes, how are you approaching this person?

Yeah, sure. So that we now know with the latest research is really cortisol mediated. And so then we would be looking to what are the perspectives, what are the practices, what are the routines, what are the triggers that are the root causes of that sustained high cortisol?

you know, sympathetic nervous system function that then is having these downstream effects of creating metabolic challenges and insulin resistance, right? So yes, we would look at those root causes, but at the same time, we would bring in herbs that support the insulin resistance, support the reestablishment of metabolism, really starting with digestion. You have to, with that specific diet,

example in that specific case, it really is very much in the nervous system and the digestive system. So we're going to focus really there in terms of what are the inputs, what are the outputs, what are the measures of function? And that's where the allopathic medicine is phenomenal. It's for tracking, doing labs, being able to monitor our progress.

Maybe another example I can give you, a client of mine with Crohn's disease that I spoke to yesterday. She's fresh in my mind. And here is somebody who had urgency, who always had to wear a diaper just in case because she had accidents, losing weight, blood in stool, severe pain.

very limited food options that would not trigger a response. Obviously, this is affecting her lifestyle to a great degree. So a lot of emotional challenges with that. And within one year, she has completely healthy digestive function, no urgency, no loose stools, normal bowel movements, has gained weight, wide range of food tolerance now, knows how to see the first

Signs of she's slipping backwards and use her tools to come forward. What we used for her were a wide range of herbs, diet, a big focus on her routines to build in circadians to support her digestive system and her nervous system.

We had to go after chronic inflammation and soothe that just to get the system to calm down. Autoimmune diseases in Ayurveda have a clear understanding of why the immune system is attacking that we don't have in the West. So we also applied that all on the physical layers. But then in her life, she had some very big stressors that were all due to family tensions and old age.

old childhood traumas that were being sort of recreated, these patterns, and that put her in certain energetic states where she was internalizing a lot of stress and having difficulty digesting her life experience.

And so teaching her how to show up differently and to shift the patterns in those family interactions, how to create her own safety and meet her own emotional needs, how to make decisions differently, which is very challenging, but she did. How to move through her day and her family-related life decisions differently, how to speak differently.

and be able to articulate her feelings and her emotional needs and to ask for them nicely, how to receive support. For example, this was this one case that was all a very important part of it alongside those physical layers, right? So if we're dealing with migraine, or if we're dealing with endometriosis, there's always going to be the lifestyle layers, there's always going to be the emotional layers, because as I mentioned, these are where we find the root

causes, but then in the physical side of things, we can really target those tissues for rejuvenation. And then what we do is we categorize what is the degree of imbalance with depletion, inflammation, and accumulation, and or some permutation or combination thereof. And we target the therapeutic practices and the herbs who attended those specific patterns. So not only do we target tissue systems and organs,

but we are targeting the exact pattern. So someone with inflammation in one part of the body versus someone who's got stagnation and accumulation, it would be handled differently even in the same part of the body. So where that overlaps with Western medicine really beautifully for me is I tend to attract with the MD a lot of people who have very serious diagnoses. And what we have done is been able to work with the doctors to

to let them know these are the root causes that we're addressing in these ways and to engage them for monitoring, for weaning down protocols on pharmaceuticals. And that has probably been

What my clients, I would say, are so joyous about is getting off medications, especially when they're really heavy chemotherapeutic immunosuppressants or lifelong insulin injections. And being a recovery of their tissues functioning, again, gives them so much hope.

And knowing that they did this, and if they slip back into it, if life becomes stressful again, or they go into default patterns again, that that's normal because it's a cyclical journey of healing, not a linear one, and that they have their tools and empowerment to serve them to do it again.

You know, you hit on exactly the question I was going to ask you, is that is this work that patients are doing with you in tandem as sort of a complement to their allopathic medicines and treatment plan and that you're working together versus some folks that may come as a

as sort of an alternative. So not really be tracked and monitored and using the best of what we have in allopathic medicine, which to your point is sort of the tracking, the being able to monitor certain metrics.

I would say it's about 50-50. I have a lot of people who will come at earlier stages of disease because they have chronic pain, chronic digestive issues, chronic issues with sleep, or they've got some infertility or something like that. And they are not thrilled about the path forward with allopathic medicine. And so they are using it as an alternative.

And then there is the population where they have several diagnoses, they have multiple medications, and they're really tired of it. And they're looking to restore health in the body. And they're finding that is not what has been offered to them in the allopathic route. And so we can't just take them off of a statin and a beta blocker and angiotensin two agonist cold turkey.

or antidepressant or whatever it is that they've been taking for 15 years, etc. So I do not personally engage with their health practitioners. I educate them and empower them to have those conversations with their health practitioners. Then just kind of going on to just some myths and misconceptions that you might want to dispel. So

So one, you often hear Ayurveda really has no scientific backing. It's a spiritual practice. How do you address that and think about that?

I think that's very easy. You just go to all the many written texts. I mean, there are full-blown Ayurvedic hospitals with amazing case studies happening right now. So that's, I don't think, a myth. I think it's just a lack of really finding the resources. Ayurvedic remedies are always safe because they're natural, quote-unquote.

I don't think that anything is always safe. In Ayurveda, we say that every medicine can also be a poison depending on context. And that's why it's so beautiful that there is such an emphasis and understanding this context is when we use this. This context is when we use that. And a very simple example of this is if I'm cold, I bring in heat. And if I'm hot...

and I bring in heat, I will cause damage. So it's not the heat that is safe or not safe. It's the context of when it is helpful and when it is harmful. Ayurvedic medicine has no place in modern integrative health systems. So it is not being practiced in the U.S. as part of integrative health care.

I think the difficulty with the integration is that fundamental challenge of offering personalization in the Western structure.

I do see in functional medicine a lot of value for some of the core principles of Ayurveda in supporting digestion, more so with herbs and dietary customization. But I think the best way that I could see integration happening would really be in

If we were practicing what I believe is truly modern medicine, to me, modern means what? What's really modern right now? It's access. We have access right now to every healing modality. So to me, modern medicine really means that we're curating a basket of healing tools and approaches that are the best fit for whatever it is that I have going on.

on because if I'm just limiting myself to allopathic, that doesn't feel like modern medicine. That's an old paradigm, right? It's great to have CT scans, MRIs, labs,

symptom relief with medications as you're healing the body into being able to not need those medications. There is a beautiful opportunity for that integration, but it's going to require two practitioners. It's going to require that they work together where the Ayurvedic is really

overseeing the customization and the allopathic is there to support the discovery, the tracking, the diagnosis, and the symptom alleviation. Because those are the strengths of both. And if we're going to join them, it should be for their strength.

And then Ayurveda is just herbal medicine, that there's nothing more to the practice of Ayurveda than just giving herbs in different formulations to treat conditions. Well, hopefully our conversation today already attended to this one, but absolutely not. Ayurveda is about really looking at how to live. It literally translates to the science of life, not herbs. And so it's about how to live in a

way that is supporting your well-being. And that could be your daily routines, that could be your emotional well-being, it could be your spiritual practices, it could be what you're eating,

It could be making sure you're sharing the gifts that you're here in this lifetime to share. So many various beautiful layers, infinite layers. It is the most comprehensive healing system that I have come across on the planet.

So I'd love to cede the final few moments that we have together for this episode to you. So someone that's listening that is really intrigued, wants to learn more about Ayurvedic practices, how do you suggest that they enter into learning more and potentially interacting with this science? Okay.

I think both my book and my online course are accessible and applicable introduction to Ayurveda basics, the viewpoint, the beginning to chart and understand your own patterns and the beginning to understand how to step into some lifestyle changes that would be more supportive of your own patterns, that personalization approach.

So reading the book or doing the online course, whichever suits, would be a phenomenal entryway. If I was just to see someone on the street and they asked me, what's one thing I can do today to step into this way of being? I would tell them, ask yourself throughout the day, where am I at and what do I need?

When you're standing in front of the fridge or the pantry, like, what does my body feel like right now? It feels like it would be really a good fit for how I'm feeling right now. When you're about to send a text message,

When you're about to decide on your dinner plans, when you're deciding whether you watch another episode before you go to sleep, you know, just that constantly checking in with what am I feeling? Because we have lost our sentience. We're not feeling. And it's all about ignoring these subtle signs in the body until they become diseases and disorders, right?

So just start paying attention and actually feeling what you're feeling in the different parts of your body, what you're feeling in your emotional body, what your thoughts are centering around. And is it feeling good? And do you want those patterns? And what would feel better? Really, really powerful conversation. I want to thank you so much for your time.

Thank you for having me. Thanks so much for joining us as we explored the world of Ayurveda, where health is more than just managing individual parts of the body, but instead caring for the whole person, mind, body, and spirit. We heard how a deeper, more holistic approach can reveal the hidden influences behind our symptoms, whether it's tackling chronic inflammation, sorting through emotional stressors,

or simply relearning how to respond to our body's needs each day. Mayurveda's long history doesn't just offer new remedies. It encourages us to see ourselves as unique energy systems impacted by everything from past trauma to seasonal changes.

and to embrace personalized solutions that evolve as we do. We also learned why Ayurveda aims far beyond symptom relief. Yes, there are powerful herbs and time-tested practices, but the true goal is addressing root causes, often tucked away in our daily routines and emotional patterns.

Ayurveda doesn't suggest you abandon modern medicine. It invites you to integrate both worlds and believing that we have the power to reimagine how we live. To find out more information about Dr. Siva Mohan, visit ayurvedabyciva.com and we'll have more information about how to connect with her in our show notes. Please take a moment to follow, rate, and review this podcast on your favorite listening platform.

If you'd like to send me an email about topics you're interested in or questions for future guests, please send me a note at [email protected]. This is Dr. Neha Pathak for the WebMD Health Discover podcast.