'House of the Dragon' Season 2, Episode 1 Reactions | Talk the Thrones
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Hello and welcome to Talk the Thrones. We are back to talk about House of the Dragon, Episode 1, A Son for a Son. My name is Chris Ryan. I am your host here today, Joanna Robinson, Senior Ringer Staff Writer.

And the worst babysitter in all of King's Landing, it's Mallory Rubin. Wow. Guys, here we are. We are back. Before we get into the show, a little bit of admin. I just want to mention that on June 25th, the three of us will be doing a live show for Talk the Thrones. Join us. Be better. At the El Rey Theater in Los Angeles. Go to the El Rey website or go to theringer.com slash events to get tickets. We would love to see you there. Special guests.

Who knows? Maybe. Winged beasts, could they be arriving? Guys, I'm so excited to talk about this episode. Joanna. Yes. Did the end of this episode mark something of a throwing Bran from the window moment for House of the Dragon? Wait, what are you talking about? What's going to happen?

Yeah. I mean, well, this is a huge moment that a lot of book readers have been waiting for, for sure. And not to overstate it in terms of what's going to happen next, but this is how George puts it in the book, right? For both the blacks and greens, blood called to blood for vengeance. Very chill. Yeah. Exactly.

It's that light touch with the prose is what we go to him for. Things are about to get real personal. Now, were you more taken back by the child murder in this episode or the sight of the wall and the north and a Stark? We're home. We heard the words winter is coming uttered on a television program on our screens yesterday.

And the only thing that is better than being here with Joanna Robinson, first of her name, and Chris the Magnanimous! Oh, thanks. Heading back up north, seeing a shocking, horrific conclusion to the episode.

Did either of those things shock me quite as much as Kristen Cole abandoning the cap to stick his head into Allison's crotch instead? I don't know! Less than three minutes. We're already on to oral sex. We're already here. People come here for a reason. Why don't I break down the episode? Oh my god, the Chris Ryan recaps. This has been fact-checked and spell-checked by Mallory Rubin, so there will be no mistakes in this one. I refuse to accept any blame or culpability for Chris getting character names wrong. Let's get into the episode breakdown. ♪

Is that the Stark family music I hear? We begin season two with some classic Stark bars about being cold and doing your duty as Jack Valerian, a.k.a. just Ceres. Just Ceres. Jace. Continues his whistle-stop tour through Westeros to garner support for his mom's claim to the throne, John McCain style. Just taking that bus, you know? Interesting conversation.

While chatting with Craig Stark at the top of the wall, Jack received news... We're going with Craig Stark. Yeah. Yeah, you and Craig are already on Craig Stark terms. That's nice. You received news that his brother Lucerys has died, so maybe take it down a second. Yeah. Okay. Get into a more somber headspace. Okay. Yeah.

Lucerys dies with a career record of zero wins and one loss in dragon fights against Aemon, Tudor, and Targaryen. Is that bad? Well, I mean, it's a small sample size, so the advanced analytics guys need to pour over the data. Back on Dragonstone, Rhaenys and Daemon argue about load management for their dragons and the best way to maintain their naval blockade currently choking King's Landing. Daemon wants to toast a dragon and a kid, but Rhaenys wants her winged vehicle to get some electrolytes

The important thing to notice is Damon says the name of the episode and he is not gonna let that go. No. I heard Bernice, but I know he meant Rainy. I said Rainy, didn't I? Recover is on the mind of many HOTD characters. Rhaenyra is wandering around in mourning, apparently without any foaming cleanser. And Corlys is finally up and at him. I'm so happy for that guy. Walking around the docks and giving thanks to a guy named Alan for pulling him out of the water. Yeah.

And is Alan spelled exactly the way that you anticipated it would be? Absolutely. It's the common spelling for Alan. Very normal. At King's Landing, Alicent is getting head. Helena is having premonitions and Aegon just wants to party all the time. Seems like life during wartime to me. During a small council meeting, we see some of the competing impulses

of the greens. Allison wants peace. A guy wants to have fun and Harris just wants to ride a Lannister while Amen wants his blood and Laris wants everyone to know he is the worst HR guy in history. Great to see him back in the mix. You wearing socks and shoes today. Laris is one double pair of socks. He's also got his eye on auto high towers job. Now,

Now, if you're anything like me, you spent the last two years dying to know what happened to Misari. Thought about her every second. Thought about her every second. Sleepless nights. Yeah. Daemon nabs the Deux-Moi of Westeros as she tries to flee. I don't know why I'm laughing at my own jokes. He presses her... That's how you know we're back. Yeah, that's the classic CR move. He presses her about weaknesses in the King's Landing security apparatus, which he will exploit in order to satisfy Rhaenyra, who has moved on to the eighth stage of grief, Pure Vengeance.

There's some funerals, there's some candle lighting, it's all very sweet. And then there was an excruciating 15 minute sequence of Damon hiring hitmen to get that son for a son. Did you actually like get the stopwatch out? I did clock in. Two dudes named Blood and Cheese. Can you start calling us that? By the way, we've been meaning to ask. Wait, but which is which? I think I'm Cheese. Yeah, Blood for me. They're assigned to bring Damon the head. I would never kick a dog.

Sorry, I don't want to be cheese. I would never kick a dog. Continue. Is that the worst thing that happens in this episode? Yes! It's the worst thing that happens in this episode. I think it's slightly worse crimes. They're supposed to get the head of Aemon Targaryen. What happens next is sad, gross, and an excellent use of sound effects. And will change the course of this show. They kill a son, just the wrong one, executing Jaehaerys in front of his mother. Now they've gone and done it. And that is the recap.

Man, there's only one you. There are a lot of people competing for the Iron Throne, but there's only one Chris Ryan. I want to start big picture. Chris the Dragonheart. Thank you so much. Your support means everything. I want to start big picture. Just for TV viewers. Yeah. Did this episode feel different? Because obviously it picks up pretty much right at the end of season one action-wise. But did you feel any differences in the storytelling?

Well, I'm going to speak in the parlance of The Watch, a podcast that you do co-host. And there's big changes behind the scenes. Big changes behind the scenes. Yeah.

At House of the Dragon because Miguel Sapochnik, who was the director-producer for season one, is out. Alan Taylor is in. And Alan Taylor directed your favorite movie, right? Terminator Genisys? It is. It holds the whole thing together. But he's also, I mean, he directed Balor, one of the great Game of Thrones episodes where Ned Stark lost his head. Spoilers for Game of Thrones season one. A lot of decapitation in this. And also, really recently, the interview with a vampire pilot, which is one of the best episodes of television. Oh, great call. I heard you did that. Yeah. Yeah.

So good. So Alan Taylor's back. He's very well versed in Game of Thrones. And something that I noticed was, especially in the small council scene, there's that vignetting that you get from anamorphic lenses that have been really popular in television. They didn't really use those in season one. So we're getting those blur. If you were like, is there something wrong with my TV? No, that's intentional. Yeah, Shogun did that a little bit too. Yeah, a lot of Shogun vignetting. What about you, Mel? I've got a quick...

Triple header for you here three things one new opening credits, right? We've got a remark on the new opening credits. Yeah, we will probably Read by thread read by thread our house of our deep dive on Tuesday so stay tuned for that the the hand turns loom, you know dragons of flesh weaving dragons of thread Helena

prophecy was one of the very intriguing lines of season one and to kind of lean into that imagery for the new credits while also giving us this literal tapestry of Targaryen history. What are the Harbingers? You know, portents and signs, signs and portents. That was really cool to see. The blood's still here. It's just not dripping down. CGI unintelligible blood, yeah. And then just widening the map.

When we think of opening credits, we think of the map in the original Game of Thrones series. And like you mentioned the North already, we're not just going to be in King's Landing, Dragonstone, and Driftmark this season. We're going to be out in more seats with more houses. They talk about all those different places. Otto's got a whiteboard behind him. They're sketching out all of these different characters who are going to come into the mix and the places we're going to go. So that's exciting for people. And relatedly, you mentioned already, Chris, we pick up right where Season 1 left off. Yeah.

We can never stop mentioning how many years season one covered, right? We moved through, in essence, three decades of canon in 10 episodes of television. And so to pick up, we get that, like, she's been gone for days line from Damon about Rhaenyra. And I think that would just be, like, orienting and mooring and very refreshing for viewers to know that we're like, all right, we're going day by day, week by week here, not like, oh, my God, there was a

a 10 year jump between episodes. That's very welcome. I noticed the pace. It just felt like scenes were like anecdotally like I would have stopwatch felt like they were moving through until we thought you said you had a stop. Well, the child murder like what's quicker carbon my Thanksgiving turkey. Wow, I did. That's not a hobby of mine. Anyway, I thought I thought it just felt like we were we were already moving if

The major criticism I think people had of the first season was the, while really effective and important to building character and understanding this Viserys and this father figure that looms over this whole thing, that it felt like you started the show twice. And now it really feels like we are rocking and rolling. Mal, I want to start a little bit with the wall that you brought up. Speaking of a swift pace, just zoom through. Why did we start there?

there like why why is that like a breadcrumb for fans or is that an essential part of the story you think? All of the above I think there are like actually a lot of things to hit here given how relatively compact and succinct of a scene this was and I think that we probably had for book readers a shared sensation of like absolute euphoria and then oh wow Jace left the North quickly like that was that was zippy but

If you remember back in season one, we open with the prologue in the Great Council and then we get this like card, right? Setting the stage for us and then it morphs into 172 years since Daenerys. It's like, right, this makes sense. You're hooking it directly to a tether that is familiar to people from Game of Thrones. And so there's that here too. And I know you have thoughts on what that did to you emotionally, spiritually, mentally, right? Philosophically, all of it.

So I'll let Jo talk about that part. I was, of course, elated because, like, the North is just, I mean, Game of Thrones fans love it, right? And that was a thrill. Like, what went through your body when you heard the Stark theme that opens? I was, like, quivering like a raven flying on that late summer.

- And then every time you heard duty in the northern accent. - Fantastic, I mean everything about this was just bliss for Thrones fans. We have a lot to cover inside of this scene. - I wanna ask two follow ups. And I understand that you guys are gonna probably get really deep into this. - Oh we'll be going beat by beat, word by word.

Oath by oath. This is maybe a basic question, but who was in the elevator? Yeah, this is your guy Craig. Craig. Yeah. You know him. Your guy Jack and your guy Craig. This is Jace, Rhaenyra's eldest son, and he is there with Craig and Stark, who Chris will be calling Craig. And he is the Wolf of the North. He's the Lord of Winterfell. Is that what you want to be called? Or Blood and Cheese, are you the Wolf of the North, Chris? No.

If you remember at the end of season one when Luke ventured off on his ill-fated trip to Storm's End, RIP, tough one still, we're all in mourning, and Jace was going to the Eyrie and to Winterfell. In the book, he also hits White Harbor. He visits the Manderlys. And so this is like one of the things that really struck me in this scene is that we see that Jace is good at this, which I think is important. And Rhaenyra was like, remember the season one finale, like,

You're just like two bros, two young dudes, hit it off, you'll have better luck than I would. And you kind of see how Jace knows how to navigate a circumstance like this. Diplomacy, friendship, et cetera. Act of ice and fire. Amazing to see this. You didn't quite see that, though. I've got gray beards, I can send you, right? That's true, but like...

what we will say is that book fans were hoping this would be a longer sequence. Yes. Right. In the book, they like drink together, hunt together, train together. They were boys together. They swore an oath of brotherhood together. And then this, they took an elevator ride together. Right. And then he gets an email. You ride the winch at the wall though. Yeah. You're good for life. Okay. I briefly, what did you think, like, what do I need to know about the Torn Stark and the Conqueror like history stuff that gets mentioned? Because I,

As a casual viewer, I'm watching that and I'm like, I feel like this is important, but I don't know why. I mean, it's a big moment for book readers, too. Yeah. Torrin is known as the king who knelt. Yeah. Because...

I mean, the thing that I've always liked about the King who knelt, and this was actually at the Trident in the books, like, this was during the Conquest, Aegon's Conquest. And so I think that's the big, to me, takeaway of this entire sequence is, like, linking it to the Conquest, which links it to Aegon's dream, the Song of Ice and Fire, that Viserys shares with Rhaenyra in the first season. We learn in the season finale, but...

Yes, stop naming all of your kids Aegon. That would be-- That's one note. --a helpful note that we could pass along to the Targaryens, but it's a little late for that. And so, like, when-- you know, of course, when we hear a character anywhere in Thrones, but certainly in the North, talk about duty, we think of Jon, the Song of Ice and Fire, incarnate. We think of, like, Maester Aemon up in-- yes, up in-- up at the Night's Watch. You know, love is the death of duty, a line we love to return to in reference in Thrones. So duty is, like, a key touch point for Thrones fans.

but for Jace. He walks up to the top of the wall. He hears Craig and Stark say, Jaehaerys and Alysanne, their dragons would not fly beyond it. The oath that I have to the north, the north has an oath that is older and more important.

than anything we owe to the Seven Kingdoms. And so Jace has not yet received, we have not seen Jace receive this information from Rhaenyra. He doesn't know the prophecy. And we will remind people that this is a show invention. This is like not in the books at all. But our assumption is that as Rhaenyra's heir, Jace will receive this information from her at some point. And so to me, the main takeaway was like, what will this trip mean for him now that he's been up there?

And not to like- And heard about death marching on the wall. Right. What's beyond there. Looking out and being like, oh, it's just savages. Yeah. It's just weather. We didn't build this for savages. Yeah. The other king, Torrin was the last king of the north until Robb Stark comes along. Oh, okay. Great. Our guy. The last king. And then he's like, nevermind, let's unite the kingdoms. And the implication here is that they did it because Aegon told them about the prophecy.

of Eisenhower. And that's a big thing for book readers. Well, Molly and I will dig way into that, but that's something that even book readers didn't quite know. Okay, that's good. So let's take that book reader framework. And I do want to ask about the final scene in the episode, which is obviously this drawn-out murder of J. Harris. In my casual kind of scholarship here, it turns out they actually...

kind of soft peddled it in the show versus the way it is in the book. Like it's much more violent, sexually violent and like grotesque, right? Yeah. So Alison is there. Uh,

they, in the books, Alison is there. They tie her up. There's another child there, a two year old. This is the big one for me. Yeah. Mail or the two year olds there. They do threaten sexual violence to like, you know, the six year old girl that's there. But the big difference is that Helena in this one, they're like, which one is the boy? Which as they say in the episode, they could have figured out themselves. Um,

So that's just like... Tough for first episode back. Yeah. But... Even Game of Thrones has a limit. Even Game of Thrones has a limit. But like in the book, they have Helena pick which of her two boys, the two-year-old and the six-year-old, she wants them to kill. Helena's choice, as it were. Exactly. Meryl Streep wishes. And then they like...

they pick the opposite. Right. Further traumatizing her if she weren't already completely traumatizing. So, like, they did oddly soften this. I know. I feel like it's going to really make us sound like sociopaths to say, blood and cheese. Wildly scintillating and horrifying television, but, like,

Kind of. Relatively speaking, I think that... I think Helena in the book picking Maelor. Yes. And then she's saying, you hear that little boy, your mama wants you dead, and then killing Jaren. Maelor's two. Maelor's two. He's not going to remember it. Oh, man. It's just... I mean, it's all so harrowing. And I think on the one hand, there's like a level of processing this in real time where you're like...

this is just the most horrific thing imaginable, which it is. And I think that we should talk about what this is going to mean for the story moving forward and what kinslaying means in this world. Because something like that we talk about a lot is a recurring through line in Westeros in the text,

no man is as accursed as the kinslayer, right? And so this is a response, a son for a son is a response, of course, to an act of kinslaying. But like, Aemond the kinslayer, this becomes a stain that you can't shake off. But the other, the major key difference, and this sort of helps soften potentially Daemon's character, is that the original instruction from Daemon in the show is,

Go get Aemond. He's the one who killed... He's also like... He's the one with one eye. You can't miss him. You can't miss him. They all have the same haircut and a lot of similar names. He's got a flat iron routine. You'll know him when you see him. It's impossible to get good help anymore. Aemond... Maybe he has to do it himself. But in the book...

It seems like the toddlers were always the aim. And then they did this thing that they did in season one that I actually really love, which is when Blood and Cheese are like, okay, and what's plan B if we can't find the Legolas with the eye patch? And then they just cut

off and we can all at home decide whether or not Damon said find a toddler, find the nearest toddler, but they cut it off the same way they did in season one. It reminded me exactly of this, which I know is one of your favorite things to like nude along with Damon's character. When Viserys is like, did you say this? Yeah. Did you toast my dead child by saying an heir for a day? And that just felt so intentional on the show's part to pull away so that we have to fill in that space in our minds. My assumption is that most House of the Dragon fans will say,

Damon either said something very specific like that or said kill any son you can find a boy get someone yeah It seems very unlikely that he would have said if you can't find a man just had right passages. Yeah, try again tomorrow Yeah, that's just doesn't seem likely correct, but I

I think it is impossible. Obviously, he's doing this in response to Rhaenyra returning. He's standing at the painting table and saying, Aemond, I want Aemond. This is not what Rhaenyra wanted. There's just no way that this is what Rhaenyra wanted. Look at how she is in mourning for her own child. And we have to remember, Helena is Rhaenyra's...

sister, right? And this is just like a horrific, horrific thing. And Rhaenyra is grieving her own son. So to take away a son in this capacity,

Damon, you just gotta be more precise with the instructions. And like, okay, so it's don't name all your children Aegon. And if you're gonna hire two would-be assassins, just be very specific about which blonde they're allowed to kill. Let's talk a little bit about some stuff outside of this last scene, right? Jo. Yeah.

It was very cool to be back in this world. Who was the character that sort of leapt off the screen for you and why was it Aegon? I would really appreciate if you could use his correct title, which is Aegon the Dragoncock, the Untamable Beast. Yeah. That would be my preference. He's got a way with branding. No one knows what magnanimous means. It was very amazing when we were in the episode.

What about like shrugging and saying cunts in the small council meeting? That also, that was my favorite. Like him flopping down. Yeah. Yeah. Tom Glenn Carney is doing so much good work for Agon in this episode and rewatching the end of last season. You know, he only got a couple episodes to make an impression and

And even then, like, he was quite fun when he's fighting Aemon in the street and he bites him. When he and Alicent, he gives Alicent his version of I don't want it. Like, I don't want to be king on the way to being crowned. So the fact that he, like, didn't want it. She gives him this speech about your father loved you. He left you this dagger. He wanted you to do it. And so we see Aegon actually kind of trying to be king, less so in the small council meeting when he's

Very distracted by the snowball. Distracted by J. Harris. Oh, but when he gets out in front of the pool, he's like, let's get these Smithies paid, man. Let's get you your goats. Happy to give you your sheep back. Yeah. Yeah, you're worried about your salt.

happy to let you know that my battle intention is to burn the blockade. So you needn't worry. But like Aegon sitting, the other quote that we love to talk about from, well, we love to talk about many quotes from this book, but this idea that Aegon had all of the sort of pieces of, official pieces of office, right? He has the crown, he has the throne. He was, you know, sworn in the dragon pit, all of that. So to see him just sort of speak

blade on the throne, this very important seat of power that Rhaenyra will kill many people to try to get. And he's just getting drunk with his mates. He's just a bro being a guy with his... The Zin shortage hit hard, you know? Those guys are just laid out. I thought that was really notable, too, like the way that his relationship to Rhaenys has evolved because so much of it came from... Now, we saw Aegon do horrific things in the first season, but there was this real aura of insecurity, right? Yes.

It's still here. Oh, yeah. But my father had his whole life to change his mind, and he didn't. Right. So you're telling me this, and it is fascinating that one of the people who was most reluctant to believe that in season one is the person who it directly impacts the most. And so, yeah, to see him take the petitions...

to see him decide when he needs to heed Otto's counsel or push back and say, this is the thing I'm going to do. How is he interacting in a little side chat with Laris? When can he sniff out when somebody is manipulating him, is seeking to work their own agenda or actually giving him counsel that would benefit him? I thought, I mean, obviously...

Our time with J. Harris is brief, right? Well, his desire to bring him to the small council. But that's the only thing. I will just say, I think Tom Glyncardi is amazing. His charisma and performance. Are you making a case for Agon as a dad? No. In terms of how he's thinking about rule. He's like, I gotta teach him to be prepared for this. They had very little time to be like, um,

Actually, Aegon cares about his kids, which is something that they forgot to establish in season one. But I don't... I would counter that. Aegon actually cares about one kid. Yes, because he goes over and he sees Jaehaerys, and he's like, oh, you're not... Not that one. I have nothing to say to you, and I have no interest in engaging. He just wants his son because he's going to be the heir. And so he's thinking about what his legacy as a ruler would be, which was just not a part of his...

He literally says to Aemon in the first season, like, I'm not suited for it. You mentioned the person who jumped off the screen for me, actually, who was my favorite Foot Locker employee, Larys. I love the fact that he is consolidating soft power. So he's basically replaced the support staff for Alicent in the palace. With all of his people. All of his people. Are you ready to say goodbye to Talia? Yeah.

in this fashion? Should we do like 10 minutes of silence on this show for that? And then move into the Masarius next. Can you do a little impromptu in memoriam?

Talia? Did you get bagpipes out? So yeah, he basically replaces Allison's support staff with his own spies, ostensibly. I have a question about that scene with her in the bathtub, by the way. I'll get back to that. I'm excited. She just only washes one body part? I don't think she's going to stop there. For Kristen's sake, I hope that's not true. Yeah, exactly. Oh, wow. I think that... Oh my gosh. Yeah.

What's happening with Laris there is that he indicates to Allison that he definitely knows that she was with Kristen Cole when he tried to see her, right? - That came live from the small council to check in. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And he was like, I've got all my people watching you. So she's in the bath. She's completely exposed. And she's surrounded by Laris' people. Laris, who makes her show him her feet. And she's just like, get out of here. And she feels so violated and watched and filthy about that that she just obsessively scrubs one shoulder. But I think she does that the entire rest of her. I don't want...

Laris's people spying on me while I bathe is obviously part of the text, but it also made me think of, you know, in season one when Viserys and his increasingly gaping and festering sores is being cleansed by the staff. You love a sore. I love a festering sore in my television program. And he dismisses that. Yeah.

Allison takes over. And so it also just, it's like the show is really deft at little things like that where characters leave us and people grow apart and they make new alliances and new relationships and they have new agendas. But those little things can port you back over like years and years of canon to a moment when like a much younger Allison, who was in a situation she didn't want to be in and was working her way through,

still had, like, that... What was that relationship like? It makes you think of that, and then what stemmed from it, right? Because Allison's relationship with all of these characters, it's like, in some ways, that and her... Obviously, her relationship with Rhaenyra, but all of the other relationships that they then forge with the people around them, like, that's the skeleton of the show. Everything else is, like, stuck on top of that. But, like, very crucially here, like, the fact that she is very done with Larys, very, like, apparently, like, she is no longer getting her, like...

He's like it's getting increasingly difficult to like schedule you right and so that's why he like latches on to a gone He's like, you know and at the end of last season. He's Laris is always doing this He's like who can I ally with can I possibly ally with everyone the end of last season? Otto is like hey, I noticed spent a lot of time with my daughter maybe looking at her feet or something like that hours cannot yeah benefit you

one episode later with Laris because they're not in episode 10, he's like, fuck Otto! Yeah, exactly. And he's the one who brought Otto back to be Hand of the King. So he's just sort of like, that is Laris' survival mode. It's just like, who can I latch on to? Who can I whisper to and promise them that I will boost their power? And so now he's latched on to Aegon for now. And then to Otto's credit, or at least an interesting piece of parallel story, it's like Otto going to Aemond

and being like, we're gonna get you your blood, but we're gonna do it the way that I, like at my pace. - One thing on the Laris front though, that I do feel like compelled to note, because obviously he's like hardcore Littlefinger coded, right? And we have the like always keep your foes confused Littlefinger ideology in our minds, right?

The bulk of our exposure to Laris and the way that he works and manipulates people and how ready he... Like, we should not forget that in episode six of season one, Laris kills his own father and brother. And he just sits down with Alicent and is like, this was what you wanted, right? Let me know if you need anything else before business hours conclude. So,

I'm curious to see how Allison responds to this because you're right like there's a palpable Visceral change that is a it's apparent to her that he's like something's different. Yeah, I'm on Yeah, what will he do when he finds out about her relationship with Kristen? But what will she do knowing that he is like watching early? That's something that she should clock I think and I'm curious to see if that is

So now the two people who know about her and Kristen are Helena, presumably. I think Otto knows. Otto. When she walks into the small council chamber with Kristen, Otto gives them a look. And I'm like that. Okay. I think Otto knows. He might have perhaps smelled something. The...

Can I say that on the Aemond front, my actual favorite line in this episode is, you know, as you recall, you may or may not recall, season one ends with Aemond and his dragon chomping a child. I do remember. A smaller dragon. It happens. The caprice of youth is how Otto's son said, oh, the caprice of youth. Yes. Don't worry about it. It's the caprice of youth. But there is, you know, what is the line that you love to quote most that Otto says about Aemond?

That rogue Aemond? Have you heard of him? I have heard of him. Worth a thousand times the price he paid. That's how Otto sums up winning Vhagar to our side. Winning Vhagar to our side. So he's like, he has to handle and pander a bit to Aemond because Aemond has the biggest dragon. There was a lot of attention drawn to that too. Not just like Vhagar, but even like Daemon when he's setting up blood and cheese is like, you know, yeah, uh.

if you do find him, he's a pretty formidable fighter. You know, Aegon's like, he's my best sword. Because Alyson's just like, why are you here? I mean, why did you come to the small council meeting? You don't have a seat at this table. You're not welcome. And the way that she, the conversation between Alyson and Otto about

how Otto is cutting out her knees with the boys was so fascinating because there's this, like, how are they all talking? All of them. Aegon, Alicent, Otto, about Aemond, about what he represents. We see Aemond and Kristen, like, plotting in secret, and Otto comes in and is like, I really need you to check in with me as Hand of the King. But Alicent going to her father and saying, like, Aegon will...

He still listens to me. He'll get sick of this and then we'll be able to steer this how we want. She is now doing what her father used to do to her. She's thinking about her own children as just pawns on a chessboard. Yeah.

They're also all playing the blame game, like specifically at that small council meeting, but just throughout the episode, they'll just give each other little looks. There's no time for amusement, Thailand. Mistakes were made in the final hours of Viserys' life. You know, like this happened. It shouldn't have, you know, they all have a way to blame each other. They're very like eyes forward guys. Let's not dwell on the past. The flip side of this is the blacks where we don't get as much attention

palace intrigue as we do with the greens, but we get a little and we obviously see... I was intrigued by the fact that the two people closest to Rhaenyra are Daemon and Rhaenys, both of whom at various points in their life thought that they might

rule the land, right? So that obviously is going to inform. They're not long-term politicians or operators the way Laris and Otto are kind of like on the margins and they accrue power by like moving people around. These two people, both ride dragons, both have an incredible amount of power. That armor? Yeah, they both, and they are essentially the Air Force...

of the realm, and at any given point, they're basically like, oh, we could just go over there and light that place up if we wanted to. Now, they're maybe underestimating Daemon and Vhagar, no, Aemon and Vhagar, but at the same time, I thought it was cool the way they sort of propped up both the two of them, their relationship, and their

the way that they interacted with Rhaenyra. I mean, Rhaenys was more like, you gotta understand, I lost a kid. She's gonna be in mourning for me. Who was that kid, though? Daemon's wife! Yeah. And Laenor. Yeah, and Laenor. She pushes the Laenor button, too. And that's... I think that was...

impossible not to think about in that exchange. I think we cannot forget, because on the one hand, it's interesting to me to hear you frame Daemon as Rhaenyra's closest ally, sure. Rhaenys, I would describe as an incredibly reluctant ally.

for Rhaenyra. Like, dating back to episode two of season one when she gives her, she thinks she's there to provide counsel and Rhaenyra receives it as the, like, lecture of that is the way of things. But I think she's come around. I think the end of season one she's come around. She doesn't, she's the last one to bow. Yeah, but I think now she's in because she's very, like, pro-Rhaenyra in this episode and Rhaenyra is so significant in her absence in this episode and she's like, let's not do anything until Rhaenyra's here. So that's the thing that got her.

was that like Rhaenyra seemed to be the one in the season one finale who was cautioning restraint. Right? And so she kind of evokes that here when she's talking to Daemon about like the more vengeful path that other characters would take. It's like,

Like, good thing that Rhaenyra is not here to act in haste like you would. Yeah. But the history between all of those characters is so deeply fraught. Rhaenys blames Daemon for her daughter dying, period. Yeah. Rhaenys blames Daemon and Rhaenyra for her son dying. And that was the other thing that was so fascinating to, like, think back on now through the perspective of what happens in this episode is, like, back in episode seven, in season one, Daemon and Rhaenyra...

are courting that response from people. We had so many questions about that at the time, like, wait, you need the Velaryons as your fleet and your allies. Is it worth the collateral damage of them thinking that you were directly involved in their son's murder? But one of the things that Daemon and Rhaenyra say to each other is, like, they'll fear what we are capable of, they being the realm at large, not specifically. Corlys and Rhaenys were sort of the collateral damage of that strategy.

Think about that now through the lens of blood and cheese. How quickly is that group going to move, the team black going to move from, we want them to wonder what we're capable of to like, oh, fuck. Like, it's probably not a good thing if people think you're capable of this. Of sawing off a toddler's head. Maybe not. Maybe not the move. Okay, so we've got, we've covered Otto and Laris. We've covered Damon and Rhaenyra.

Remarkably this episode hinges on the return and performance of a character who I think was like Generally like I would say somewhat ridiculed or somewhat criticized last season this Miss Aria. Yeah, uh And I actually was pretty into this appearance and the plot line of like a huge improvement Yeah, doing the reverse Littlefinger. The accent is getting increasingly moderated instead of increasingly extreme. This is what it is.

almost all the characters in this show are prisoners of whatever faction they're a part of. And within that prison have become kind of fanatical about like, this is the only way that this can be fought. Like we're going to be on these two separate points and we're going to collide. Yeah. And Masaru's just like, I'm just trying to get out of here. Like this is, I'm no longer in your thrall. Go scheme with someone else. Tough one for Damon to hear. My occupation is gossip. My whole thing is people being in my

Are you sure about that? Have you seen my new armor? But I loved her pragmatism and I loved her cynicism. I loved her just being like, yeah, statement. I was obviously playing both of you against the middle. That is literally my job description. I profited from knowing.

Yeah. What did you guys think of this appearance and specifically the scene between her, the scenes between her and Damon? Not the scenes between her and Eric, the favorite carpool team? I thought that was fine, yeah. It was cool that he stuck up for her. We got Eric and Arik in this episode. Who could ask for anything more? Yeah, but the Arik

Stretch was traumatizing because he was by a scorpion and like anytime you see a scorpion now in the wider Throes universe, you just think of Euron and bigger Crossbow and Rhaegal and it's like PTSD. Because he's like, look! Oh no, dragon! Yeah.

It took him a while to clock that that was Vhagar. Easily the biggest Swiss dragon in the realm. With the Swiss cheese wings. Yeah, exactly. Don't worry, it's got a lot of holes in it. But Misaria. Yeah, Misaria. No, I really loved this. I loved the discovery of her. I loved her, like, weariness.

She's just like, it is the opposite of Laris. She is an equal master of Whisper. She is equally connected. She does hook him up with a rat catcher that he needs and all of that. But she's just not enjoying the game the way that most people who are playing the game are enjoying the game. And that is very, I mean, I guess a comp, a similar-ish comp would be Varys because Varys loved the game. But towards the end on Game of Thrones, Varys is just sort of like,

what on earth can I do to protect the realm? And hers is just like, what on earth can I do to get out of here? I just don't want to be here anymore. And I really like that different energy. And she also, like, Damon doesn't really have the power over her because she's just like, kill me, do whatever. I mean, think of the first time we see them together in season one. Like, they're fucking in a brothel as people watch them through basically these exact screens that we have here. And then he's like, can't get it out, gotta cloak myself. Yeah.

That's where we got the cup. So it's a totally, just like utterly different dynamic. And there is actually kind of a steady evolution because there's the mid-season stretch where he's, you know, after he takes Rhaenyra to the Bowels of the Pleasure Den, an iconic moment in House of the Dragon history, and he's passed out on her floor and she's just basically like,

The I'm not in your thrall thing starts there, really. This is just a more overt stating of it. And the Varys comp is an interesting one because, you know, if we think back to the Dragonstone sequence, when Daemon is using her as like a chip to fuck around with Viserys. I'm going to marry her and have a kid with her. Yeah, I stole an egg. We're going to have a family. And she's like, what is happening here? And the reason that I want to be a part of your life is for protection. And you're acting.

actively putting me in harm's way and using me as a tool in your fucked up warped game. And so when she made her move with Otto in the penultimate episode of season one and did the whole, you know, remember it was me who put him there about Aegon, but also like made her pitch for protecting the small folk. I will just say like, I think we all in real time thought it was one of the weaker moments of the season,

This didn't feel that way. This brings you into that headspace where she's like, "This was my life before. These are the horrors that I worked through. These are the people in power who have used me for ill, and I tried to make that work for me, and now I'm done with it."

But what actually happens here? Like you said, she does actually give him actionable intel. That was interesting, too, because, like, Damon does have knowledge of the passageways and connections. Like, you know, he's the commander in the gold cloaks. That's why he's greeted by blood. Like, hey, commander, what's up? Yeah, I was wondering how he was, like, pretty notable guy. Damon back in his signature murder cloak. Blood, by the way, in the book has already been drummed out of the service. The gold cloaks in the show. He's got a little bit of a rap sheet there. Yeah. But...

You know, Damon left Rhaenyra in season one, the little map of here's how you sneak out and make your way through Maegor's secret tunnels to go out on the town for a night with your uncle who's going to become your husband. But I kind of see that Miss Arya might be a connection to a rat catcher. That's what I like about it. The fact that we know he actually is in possession of some of that information but still had to seek out...

something he knows she possesses that he does not, that is like a level of equilibrium in their relationship that was just missing previously. - The last thing I wanna say on the Massaria front, I know you wanna stay here with Massaria forever, but this is the last thing I have to say about this. Mal mentioned when we meet her in season one, episode one, I did go back and like, you know, I'm just like thinking about that scene.

thinking about passage of time on the show and characters who have been with us from the beginning like sure matt smith has had different wigs he got a haircut blah blah but he looks like pretty much the same yeah matt smith himself yeah like damon got a haircut uh growed his hair etc but he looks pretty much the same as he did when we first met him

Seeing Massaria sort of just like weary and bedraggled compared to like, you know crisp and I was just like oh my god She was like somebody was living on a boat. She was so much younger when we first met her, you know Do you want us to you're gonna call us blood and cheese Do you want us to start calling you the white worm? Sure. No, you're gonna be the first wolf of the north. I like Okay, let's just kind of open up a little bit here because we've talked about a bunch of the different major plot points and

I don't want to get too into what we think is going to happen and get into predictive nature of it because, for one thing, we haven't seen the scenes from next week yet. So there's a sort of fool's errand in some way. Also, like, because of the nature of these books, the completeness of the history, and while there might be some surprises along the way, I don't want to get too into, like, what do you think is going to happen with this guy? And you guys can just tell me.

So I'm more curious whether or not... Reliable narrator. Sometimes we're done. There was a scene in this episode that you thought was maybe sneaky important, maybe more important than I would have thought. I was thinking about the Alan scene, which went on for quite a while, and I was like, well, I don't know this guy. They seem to be having a tender moment of exchanging a scepter and gratitude with each other. The dagger he had made for Lucerys. Oh, his dagger. Okay, so... His hair. His drift mark.

It was a longer scene than you would get. Yeah, we had time to watch them like mop the blood off the deck of the... That's right. Is that your favorite part? Chipping the barnacles. Oh, yeah. That's right. I was like, that's a lot of barnacles. I like to see the details of how they maintain the fleet. No, but I just love that they're already on chipping barnacles when the front half of the ship is just completely wrecked. That was like maybe...

I need my ship out there so that I can be a part of leading the blockade. And Alan's like, we sent seven more ships out earlier today. Can you chill? But also, have you seen your ship? It's demolished. So that seemed like a relatively important scene going forward. Watch the space, I think, is what we're going to say about that. A new character who was introduced. Was there anything else from the episode that jumped out at you where you're like, oh, how about that? I have something for you. Oh, sure. We have Aegon Smallcouncil. He does not have a master of ships.

They mention a name, Dalton Greyjoy. Okay. And I think it's okay for me to say this. Red Kraken. He's the Red Kraken. And I know how much you miss the crab feeder. I do. Are you excited that there's a character called the Red Kraken? He'll have to do. What was that? The trifecta? What were they called? The triarchy. The triarchy.

The alliance. Yeah, I missed the crab. I missed that kind of weird subplot. It seems like this is going to be much more this side versus this side. The Greyjoys. How do you feel about the Greyjoys possibly being back? This is a great take. We got some stacks. We missed the triarch. Yeah, the crab feeder. He's taking back the steps. I thought it was cool. I love that part. Yes, I'm excited for the Greyjoys to be coming back if that is indeed in play. There was one other thing. Oh, yeah.

Helena's premonitions. - Yeah. - Yes. - And her being like, I mean, that was actually one of my favorite little exchanges in the episode was like, I'm scared and he's like, what? And she's like, rats. - Yeah. - And he just goes, the queen remains enduring. - Enduring mystery, is she not? - Great line delivery. - But also right before that when he's like, where is he? Like, come on. - Yeah.

Is Aegon perceptive enough to have noticed that his wife called that? No. Wife slash sister. Wife slash sister. Let's just not forget. Always bears mentioning wife slash sister. Is Aegon perceptive enough to notice anything about Helena? I would say no. Definitely not. And I think we have ample evidence at this point because her season one mini dream dispatches included he'll have to close an eye.

eye about Amon. The beast beneath the boards. Beast beneath the boards about Rhaenys and the dragon pit. And of course the dragons of flesh weaving dragons of thread that we already discussed. So yeah, I don't think that we should expect Aegon to clock this, though I am interested in more broadly beyond Aegon, like the family unit's awareness of Helaena's abilities. Well, that's the thing. It would almost be good homework for the viewer to be like, listen to what Helaena says. Oh, yes. Oh,

Everything she says. That, for sure. But, like, just when we think about, again, what is the story about? What is the Dance of the Dragons? It's the Targaryen War of Succession. It's a family civil war, right? And so, like, all of these people, in theory, have a proximity, a closeness, an awareness. In season one, when we realized that Helena was a dreamer,

We were so interested in thinking about and discussing whether Viserys, her father and the king, who was obsessed with the idea of being a dreamer. What is the power of a dragon next to the power of prophecy? Had ever spoken to his own child about that even once.

And I'm going to go with no. Probably not. A little busy with the dropping wins. It didn't feel like the answer was yes. Yeah, he's like, half my face fell off. Oops. Like, my hand's got to go back in the Mellos Maggot Bowl. I don't have time to talk to you about your prophecies. I forgot all about that. But, you know, these divides and ruptures can stem from things like that. When Daemon and Rhaenyra have their absolute...

harrowing fight in the season one finale and he issues the line that we heard in the bizarre introduction to the whole series in the first teaser trailer for season one. Dreams didn't make us kings. Dragons did. Like, Daemon has a resentment of that. For Viserys, it could have been a bridge with one of his children. But these people don't...

to each other. But that's what's so key about the greens. And then they're constantly contrasting that with the blacks and how Rhaenyra actually has a connection. Like, we get the funeral, but, like, when Jace comes in and he's trying to, like, give his dispatch...

and he's crying and she just wraps him up in her arms. And we should say, not a lot of Rhaenyra in this episode, but Emma doing so much with their face. Fantastic. Just incredible stuff. Yeah, great job. The intercutting of Alicent at the sept and Rhaenyra at the funeral, the tie, we think back to the sept in season one.

Alyson taking her there, right? It's only for you and the gods to know. Explaining what it meant for her to be there and think back to her own mother and to her close to the people that she lost. That's the first person she lights a candle for here. She lights one for Viserys. She lights one for Luke. Like, it's a different, the handing over of the paper on the Dragonstone Bridge. She's also pressing on the small council. She's like, all right, let's get some new terms over to them. Let's figure this out. Yeah, and it's not going well so far. Has she responded to a small council? Sorry, I'm sorry.

I remember him being like, uh, about her dead kid. Did she leave me on read or what's happening? Yeah, like the contrast, not only the link that that reminds us of their friendship and their shared history, but then the contrast of how either the parallels of like, Aldo is trying to work you, Damon's trying to work you, they want to control you, but then the contrast of how they interact with their children was like really, really stark. Yeah.

It's pronounced stack. I realized the one thing that I didn't get, I forgot to ask you guys about. Kristen and Allison fucking up a storm? Well, that was pretty cool, but in... I was going to say, he's a complete hypocrite. The title of this show is House of Dragons. I haven't asked about dragons. Oh. We got two dragon dismounts in this episode. A couple of dragon dismounts. This was a big one for me. Yeah.

Is the amount of rest and relaxation that these dragons need in between flights going to become like a thing? I think it's more the amount of also the amount of sheep that they need to eat. Gotta take a tenth of the sheep. Yeah. I like how much... This is what we say to the crew. We're like, we need a tenth of the snacks from out in the pit stop. So that we can gorge as soon as we finish recording. You should go to Sweet Greens and just like kind of keep it level. Like he doesn't need to... No free ads. That's true. Not...

No Priets. No Priets. It was cool to see the dragons. I thought that the Vhagar scene where it was just like, oh shit, and then it was like, no, that's our good dragon. It was cool. Any dragon points you want me to know about? Cyrax mourning. Oh. Like with Rhaenyra. Man. Yeah. You know, like I know I... I'm just going to be honest. I know that my...

The substance of my emotional response should have been Rhaenyra has found the cloak of her dead child, but I was like, seeing Aerax's wing? Yeah.

I was like, this is probably going to bum Mal out. But I was also more like, isn't it disturbing that these fishermen are like, oh no, we're dead. But yeah, I think we're going to respond inappropriately. We're going to get a lot more like how the small folk are affected by dragon warfare. Like how does that affect everyone on the ground? It's not just going to be about salt and sheep and iron, but it's going to be about that as well. But also I just want to float this to you because as we know in Fire and Blood, there's a bunch of like,

A bunch of different narrators, a bunch of different what-ifs for various characters. So I just want to ask you. Sliding doors moments. Yes, exactly. We love Gwyneth Paltrow. We wish you were here. So Luke, do you like the theory that the prince survived the fall, swam to safety, lost his memory, and became a fisherman? Oh, that's awesome. No. Vhagar ate him in one bite.

I really love this theory, though. One bite. Like a peanut M&M. I want a future cameo for Luke just working the nets down at the shore in a future season. It would be great if he just set up a small gambling book in a village somewhere or whatever.

was doing like... Carrying on Beesbury's legacy. His body was never found. He says it's because he's inside Vhagar's intestines, I would say. In the history of Game of Thrones, with the exception of what was the mom, and then she comes back, but it wasn't in the show. Catelyn. Lady Stoneheart, yeah. Like, is anyone ever actually alive when they're like, nobody, like, we didn't see Stannis get killed. It's like, yes, you did. The Hound. Oh, that's right. Yeah. The Hound.

Remember that episode? Vengeance. Well, by this logic, Jaharis could be alive. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance. Vengeance.

There were still a couple other interesting quick little dragon things. We mentioned already the scorpion, right? When Hugh is making his petition to Aegon about the cost of iron, it's to make scorpions. So there's a prep level happening. All that detail was so cool. Amazing, yeah. And even the way Aegon's like, the way they all talk about their dragons because we had the kind of Daemon dragon math sequence of the season one finale. We have this many, they have this many, and Rhaenyra's like, hit pause and chill. Yeah.

I love Amy. Like this episode was so heavy, not the first one, but so heavy.

on Amon-Damon parallels. They literally use the same language, toehold, to talk about why they need to get a seat in the Riverlands and get at Harrenhal. And so, like, hearing Damon say to Ernest, you have to come with me. Like, we need Caraxes and Maelys, let's head out together. I can't beat that whorey old bitch on my own. The way that they're thinking about each other, we see in Amon's room a

painting of Balerion's attack on Harrenhal, like this obsession that Aemon and Daemon share. Is that the kind of dragon mural you're hoping for? I also have that in my room. No, I missed it. You missed the dragon orgy. The dragon orgy tapestry is on our minds always. On our minds always. So that's just... Starry Night. You know, they're both second sons. They're these formidable foes who are revered by others for their prowess in battle and

Those cops are just always so interesting. And so, like, hearing them actually, like, hearing, again, Damon talk about Amon in this episode was really fascinating. The... Because...

In the show, we have heard Davin compared to Maegor the Cruel before, right? He would be another Maegor. And Maegor is mentioned in this episode. Maegor's tunnels. Not sure if you've heard, Chris, but Cheese knows the shape of them better than his own cock. That's a direct line from the book. Thank you, George. Wonderful stuff to see that make it into the show. Glad you got one more secret. Yeah. Thank you. Before we wrap up today.

One of the things that we got in the opening credits was Maegor impaled on the Iron Throne, a blade from the throne through his neck, which is how he died. There's a lot of speculation, like, what really happened, another classic kind of unreliable narrator bit of history.

But Maegor's constant, the show constantly reminding us of Maegor and his history is just something that I love. Kragan mentioned Jaehaerys and Alysanne and their dragons not wanting to go beyond the wall, which we talked about. A little bit of an update on book canon. Alysanne is there writing letters to Jaehaerys about...

how her dragon, Silverwing, didn't want to fly there. It troubled me then and it troubles me still. In Fire and Blood, Viserys' last night is spent telling his grandkids about Jaehaerys going up north to the Wall. One of the things that we don't see here is Vermax, Jace's dragon, up in the north with him.

But he hates it. In the book, it is clear that he hates it. And one of the things that we did get to see in Game of Thrones, and it did not go well, was what it's like for the dragons up north. Solar powered guys, yeah. Not sure if you guys have heard of the Song of Ice and Fire, but there's something there. I'll leave it here. It's cool that we're in episode one of season two, and the connective tissue is becoming so apparent, which I think...

for people who are more like Game of Thrones TV fans, that was like, that's a nice thing when you're like, now the stuff that I watch just started to pay off in a little bit more of a significant way. Can I just say one thing that I think is really funny is that like when people watch House of the Dragon and they're Game of Thrones fans, they're like, this is close to the show I love, but not quite the show I loved. And one of those things is that it looks different because it happened, you know, over a hundred years ago. The style, the costumes are different, except for the Starks.

They wear the exact same thing over 100 years ago. Those guys have been wearing American workwear. It's working. It's working. This was so much fun. We're going to be here every Sunday night right at the conclusion of House of the Dragon, so you can join us here on the Ringerverse YouTube page. You can listen to us on the House of R podcast feed on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. You can watch us on Spotify. And you can watch us on Spotify. It's been awesome to hang out with you all. We'll talk to you next Sunday.

Bye.