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cover of episode 'House of the Dragon' Season 2, Episode 4 Reactions | Talk the Thrones

'House of the Dragon' Season 2, Episode 4 Reactions | Talk the Thrones

2024/7/8
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Mallory Rubin:本集情节荒诞,如同梦境,展现了戴蒙·坦格利安的内心挣扎与混乱,以及雷妮拉阵营在战争策略上的分歧和最终的决定。克里斯顿·科尔的计划、艾蒙的偷袭、艾贡的鲁莽参战,以及雷妮丝的牺牲都展现了战争的残酷和不可预测性。 Mallory Rubin:艾丽森·海塔尔对历史的探究,以及她与拉里斯·斯特朗之间的对话,揭示了她对维塞里斯意图的疑问和对自身处境的反思。月茶的出现也象征着她对克里斯顿和自身处境的复杂情感。 Joanna Robinson:艾蒙与艾贡的空中龙战场景充满张力,艾蒙是否试图杀死艾贡,以及他的动机,都留下了疑问。雷妮拉利用艾贡的梦境作为发动战争的借口,但同时也展现了她对责任的承担。预言在剧中起着双重作用,既可以作为避免冲动行为的盾牌,也可以作为采取行动的理由。 Chris Ryan:本集的龙战场景宏大而震撼,展现了龙与骑士之间的联系,以及战争的残酷性。雷妮丝的牺牲是悲剧性的,但她最终的选择也体现了她对战争的无奈和对和平的渴望。戴蒙在哈伦堡的经历,以及他与艾丽斯·里弗斯的互动,展现了他内心的矛盾和对过去的反思。

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It's Mallory Rubin. I'm glad I wrote that intro that way because it wasn't hard. Now, guess what? Before we get started on recapping the episode, I want to talk about the fact that The Ringerverse is going to be appearing live at the El Rey Theater on July 17th. You can go to theringer.com slash events or the El Rey website and it's

You guys, it's Midnight Boys, Mid Edition, Butt Mash, all that stuff. So let's get into the fact that these dragons just fought. And that if you are going to call an episode, Joe, a dance of dragons, let the dragons dance. Completely agree. But I have a quick question for you. Backstage before we started recording, I broke a stone statue of a dragon and then I smashed a goblet of a dragon.

Do you think that's a supposed wealth for the report? And then Tyrion walked into the room and knocked over a goblin and said, there's your piece. Yeah. To connect all of our stories. So this should be fine, right? Yeah. Okay. No bad omens. This show took the leap, right, Mal? Like, this is incredible stuff. Is the monoculture back? Like, are people going to have to start sitting down? Are a million people watching us right now? Why don't we recap the episode because we have so much to talk about today. Let's do it, man. ♪♪

Okay, we'll recap in episode four and just put yourself in my headspace here. Imagine a guy walks in to see his therapist and he says, hey doc, I've been having this weird dream where my wife, who is also my niece, appears to me in her teenage form and tells me my brother didn't love me as much as her, so then I chop her head off. Also, I'm having problems at work. It's like,

It's happened to all of us, right? Relatable. Relatable. It's definitely happened to Daemon Targaryen, who is lost in Twin Peaks, trying to raise an army to fight Criston Cole and the Greens, while Daemon dreams Rhaenys and Corlys have a waterside chat that is not at all foreshadowing anything about how they need to go back to Rhaenyra's War Council. And that War Council happened to be chomping at the bit to get these dragons dancing.

Love him.

who happens to notice the piles of history books lying around her bedchamber. Weirdly, this was one of my favorite scenes of the episode. You've always loved to read. While Alicent nurses herself back to health, Aemon is punking his brother in two different languages during a Greens cabinet meeting. Remarkable. Aegon wants to take back Harrenhal from Daemon, but Aemon and Kristen want to take down Crownlands castles one by one, building an army and a treasury in the process. At the aforementioned Harrenhal, Daemon is not having a normal one.

No. He has now met the woman from his dreams, Alice Rivers, whose resume reads bastard, witch, and part-time maester, which is actually... You left off Barnell. She gives Damon some Westerosi ayahuasca that seems to transport Sleepy Dame through time and into a meeting with Willem Blackwood.

Finally, we hit the battlefield. Earlier in the episode, Sir Chris got a scroll handed to him right after he beheaded a guy, which is actually right when I get my correspondence. A guy. Lord Darklyn. Fast forward, and we see Sir Chris driving his army towards a castle called Rook's Rest. Sir Chris. It's small, but its lord sits on Rhaenyra's council, which is very important. Yep. He wants to attack it first, fast, in daylight, and Gawain thinks that's nuts because there'll be a bottomless spaghetti bowl for one of Rhaenyra's dragons. Yep.

and it turns out that is the point. Rhaenyra returns to her council, reveals that she met Alicent and that she now knows she must engage in total war, meaning dragons. First, she nominates herself to fly into battle, but is talked down. Then, Jiserys pushes his chest out, but Rhaenyra keeps him on the bench. The job of protecting Rook's rest falls to Rhaenys, who seems to know the outcome before she leaves the council chamber. Rhaenyra tries to assuage Jace's anger.

I like calling him Jack, but I'll call him Jace. Yeah. Okay. By telling him about Aegon's dream. Yep. Rhaenys flies to Rook's rest and initially seems to be turning the tide of the fight by incinerating lots of guys. That's when Criston's scroll plan kicks in. He has his homies hit the trumpets, revealing a Aemond hiding in the trees on a camouflaged Vhagar. Unbelievable. But his brother Aegon calls a hot route! Ha ha ha!

Flying over from King's Landing and engaging with Rhaenys as the latter two fight in the sky, Aemon indiscriminately lights up both of them, sending Aegon crashing to the ground on Sunfire. Rhaenys accepts the finality of her mission and repeatedly attacks Criston's army. Battling with Aemon along the way, one final attack is too many and Vhagar kills Maelys.

and sends Rhaenys crashing to her death. On the ground, Criston drags himself to find Aegon in the woods, and once there, he spots Aemon possibly contemplating fratricide for the second time that day. Once a Kinslayer, you know, busy day. It's not exactly a tearful moment for Aemon's one eye, and we are left with the ambiguity of whether Aegon lived through the fiery fall to Earth. That is the recap.

That's maybe my favorite movie. Thank you so much. You nailed it, buddy. Joanna, I want to talk about Aemon versus Aegon. Yeah. You're watching that scene in the sky, final moments back on the ground. We can see everything. It's a broad daylight dragon pass. It's so nice to have no murky winter felt in the cast. And you would forgive anyone for wondering if Aemon wants his brother dead.

It certainly seemed like it. Yeah. What did you think about the ambiguity of those moments and does that deviate from what you thought you knew about them from the books? I love the ambiguity. We've talked about this a lot about like the various adaptations of the book, the changes, the tweaks, but this is like a tweak that still allows for us to decide what happened here. Yeah.

I want to preview that we do have an interview with Ewan Mitchell who plays Eamon on House of R later this week. Will he settle the great milk or milk of the poppy debate? We did ask him. Good tease.

We did ask him. Tune in to find out. But he, you know, not to get, I don't want to step on his toes too much, but he's like, the ambiguity is the point of all of this. This is, we're here to guess. Yeah. And I love that. I do want to, and if you'll allow me, I will, because it's quite short, read what happens in the book. Please do. I think that would be educational for our viewers. It's like mere sentences. Then came an answering roar.

Ooh.

The crimson jaws of Maelys closed around Sunfyre's golden neck for a moment, till Vhagar fell upon them from above. All three beasts went spinning toward the ground. They struck the ground so hard that stones fell from the battlements of Rook's Rest half a league away. And that's it. Oh, so dragons can get up when they fall.

I mean, it depends on the extent of their injuries. And how much fire is involved, I suppose. There's a really great transition here, though, Mal, because I wanted to ask you about Kristen Cole's relationship to this plan. Okay. Because in the text that you just read, it could be read as Kristen's plan, and Kristen's plan, does that extend to goading Aegon to come out?

Do they want to do a little bit of a replacement in the executive branch here? What do you think is going on with Kristen and Amon vis-a-vis Aegon? I would say that they are both quite surprised to see Aegon and Sunfire arrive here. Wasn't Amon going, God damn it, you idiot? Yes.

Yes, yes. Amon saying idiot in High Valerian was a real thrill. That was wonderful. And, you know, we see from all of their perspectives, right? It's clear that Aegon is not in on this. He has been shamed and embarrassed by his brother. We've all been there. He's really enjoying the strong wine, but his brother has completely embarrassed him by speaking High Valerian fluently while he can barely choke out the word, like, war, right? I can't have war. Yeah.

I can't. And he's then gotten this like absolutely withering annihilation and evisceration from his mother. He's sitting alone. He decides to head out. Nobody asked him to. No, it's a real NFI, not fucking invited, right? Yeah, I would add Jasper to the mix too. Like it's the Eamon with the Jasper assist plus his mom. Yes, yes. And so I think we just have the confirmation from the idiot from Eamon, but also when Gawain is like, this was your plan to Kristen? And he just says no, and he is absolutely panicked.

They were not planning on Aegon being there, which, as Jo noted from the passage, is an update for us. So you have that update of Aegon going rogue, but also what that kind of connects to more broadly across the season of the poor communication. This is the plot that Kristen and Aemond were sketching out at the beginning of the season. They were going to

tell Aegon about it and kind of pitch him on the side. They didn't. That was about Otto and Alyson being in control. Otto's gone. Then everybody's pissed at Aegon, right? We think back to like all of the different times throughout the series that Aemond has shown how little he thinks of his brother. Think back to season one, episode nine, him just saying outright to Kristen in the streets like,

I'm the one who should be cuts off right before saying king. Yeah, right. Right? We build toward the beginning of this season where Aegon's like, my loyal dog, my best sword. And then we hear Aemon saying...

He's just like being a puppet who's controlled by my mom and grandpa. They're not on the same page with each other in any respect. And then we have the brothel incident, right? The mortification and humiliation. So I think that all of that... Although he has nothing to be humiliated about, frankly. Like he just...

True. But in this family, you know, they're rarely supporting each other the way they need to. And so, like, I think the question of what is going on in Eamon's mind and whether it's, like, an active decision to try to say, I should be king instead. I'm going to attempt to kill you right here. Or more of, like, a passive...

If you're too stupid to let me win your war for you, then, like, if you're collateral damage, so be it. I think that's open. I don't think it's open to interpretation whether they wanted him to be there. They did not. Okay. And also, to what Mal was alluding to earlier, is, like, he's already loosened the lid on the Kinslayer jar, right? Yeah. With Luke. He's already got that nickname, Eamon Kinslayer. Yeah. So, like... Live up to the title. What's a brother, you know? On the ground? Yeah. Yeah.

What's up with that? So he's sheathing it, right? Well, he has it out. And then he sheathes it when Kristen shows up. It seems like he's doing a little pointing. Oh yeah, he's got the dagger prophecy. You love to have the dagger prophecy. Do you think it was glowing? My question is, it looks a little charred. Was it glowing? We think like a little one ring action, the old inscription visible to Eamon for a minute. You gotta show that dagger.

and some fire. So is that dagger his? It's not Aegon's that he's picked up. It's Aegon's. That's Aegon's. Yeah, that's the dagger. That's where Ceres is. That's the one that Arya will use. And he's just like dangling at his brother underneath the dragon. He's using it as like a laser pointer earlier in the season. Not a lot of sentimentality from that guy. They don't know how important that dagger is. The question of whether Aemond was considering stabbing Aegon is...

That's kind of where I'm like, okay, I don't know how, if that is what he's thinking. Right. You sell that? It's one thing to say, boy, we were, yeah, definitely strategizing together to try to fight against the blacks. And no, things went wrong and boy, dragon fire, it happens.

If you stab him and he has a stab wound in him, it's like Jorah and Daario in Vestal Frack in CS6. It's like Crown Lamb. I don't know how involved they're going to get. Tougher one to cover up once there's a stab wound. Jill, let's talk about Aegon's Dream. Another Aegon. The Song of Ice and Fire. Rhaenyra uses it as a pretext to some extent for unleashing the power of dragons.

and also delivers it as like an inheritance to pacify her disgruntled son. The show presents this as reasonable, I think. And we know this vision is real from Game of Thrones. Right. But is she twisting prophecy to her own purposes, do you think? I think that's a fascinating question. I love the way they set this up.

Mallory and I have been waiting for her to tell Jace the prophecy and especially waiting since he went up on the wall and looked over the wall and saw death waiting on the other side of the wall. So he has some information that Rhaenyra doesn't even have. I love the way they set this up to look a lot like

how it played out in season one, episode one with Viserys. They're standing again in front of a dragon skull. This one's stone. That one was Balerion the Black Dread. We hear her talking over visuals of others. Like we get an egg on the Conqueror drop as we see

are Aegon putting on the Conqueror's armor, et cetera. And that was very similar to how they played it all out in season one, episode one. So they were drawing these intentional parallels. And so that makes us want to think about the exact language that Viserys was using when he told her about this, right? He said, ambition alone is not what drove Aegon the Conqueror to the conquest. And he tells her everything's going on. And he says, we have to unite Viserys

uniting the kingdom is the most important thing, the most important part of all this. And when he's dying, Rhaenyra's like, you name me Eir, you divided the kingdom. You did this. And so I think it's interesting for all of us book readers, because this prophecy is not in the book, it's always interesting for us to think about going down the line of Targaryen kings before Aegon and Rhaenyra fight here and after and saying, did they do this batching?

a thing because of the prophecy? And because it's like the oral tradition and it's like, well, did it get tweaked ever? Well, yeah. And like, did it get lost? Did it get lost? And when did it get lost? Yeah, when did it get lost? So I don't think Rhaenyra strikes me as the kind of person who's using this as an excuse to go to war. She's so reluctant to go to war. But she has talked throughout the book

about this idea of like, this is her duty. She must do this. When Kristen gave the very attractive oranges and cinnamon, you know, engagement pitch on the boat. Right there across the narrow sea. Yeah, and he's just like, he's like, you chafe against this, your duty, all the stuff that you have to do. And she's like, I am the crown. Yeah. I am the crown. I have to do this. And so I don't think Rhaenyra is using it as an excuse for,

But it is part of why she feels like she has to do this. It's kind of, go ahead. No, I think it is a great question because like, I agree with Joe. I think the shift feels subtle. But then when you start to play out the string and think about the span of the story, it is impossible like to not really think about what's driving your question. When you're listening to Rhaenyra in the season one finale say to Daemon, you know my oath reaches beyond our personal ambition. The prophecy at that point is a shield, right? It's the break.

It's the thing that you use as the excuse to not act rashly or violently. And what happens even if you did everything you could to avoid getting to that moment when the shield becomes a sword, right? When the justification of the prophecy becomes the thing that allows you to act, the thing that you're using to say we had no choice but to head out into the field. And I was thinking similarly about all of the different rulers who could have maybe used this, how we think about their acts now differently through this knowledge.

And other characters too, because this is the thing about prophecy in many fantasy stories, and certainly in this fantasy world, like, Jon doesn't know who he really is. Right. Right? Jon never receives Aegon's dream from any other character. He didn't need that to decide to go fight the White Walkers. Right. He didn't need that to go to Hearthome. Like, he didn't need that to unite the North.

He didn't need that to bring everybody together so that Arya is there at Winterfell holding that same dagger in her hand during the long night. I thought that dagger was familiar. But he is that person. He is the Song of Ice and Fire. But it's how Stannis justifies burning Shireen. This is who I was just going to bring up next. Doesn't Shireen actually say something? Doesn't she tell Stannis about the Dance of Dragons? She does. Yes, she does. And he's like, what's up with that?

Right, and we're like, "Stanis, we know you know what that is." Why is that a dance? It's just what they call it. Doesn't make much sense. I think it's poetic. Iconic stuff from Stanis. But yeah, like, someone, Melisandre, is telling you you're the prince that was promised. You allow yourself to believe that.

You hear, oh, well, look what we did with Gendry's dick leeches, right? Look at the power of king's blood so you burn your own daughter. What do characters do even if they start from a well-intentioned place when they believe the hype? And if you compound that with this burden of duty, the Targaryens thinking that they are the true only line of defense, it's a scary thing to contemplate no matter how well-intentioned you are.

There's this line we brought up on House of R last week from A Feast for Crows. It's my favorite way that George R. R. Martin ever wrote about prophecy, which is, prophecy will bite your prick off every time. This nature of, like, it will betray you. Like, buying too much into a prophecy will betray you. But it is so fascinating for us to watch this knowing that the prophecy is right. Yes. It would almost be more interesting for us to not know whether or not it's true. Yeah, the irony of it, which is, like, she...

We know she's right, but no one is right in this show. Everybody is doing these... I mean, thousands of people die in this episode. Yeah, well, even if you're right, even if you know what you're working toward, does it justify the things you do in the name of that? We've talked about this a little bit, this idea that on the one hand, this does give Rhaenyra justification for what she does. On the other hand, could she have a conversation with Aegon and say...

okay, I don't need to be the queen, but you need to know what the prophecy is. Right. You know? Exactly. Why does it have to be her? It should be her. She has my vote. Yes. But does it have to be her in order for the prophecy? They treat the prophecy like this kind of rare mineral. Like, you know, that can't be shared. Unobtainium? Yeah. Exactly. But it's like their personal wealth rather than something that would be used as the security for the realm. I know. Why don't they tell everyone? I know. I would be shouting it from the rooftops. We're talking a lot about

prophecy and the future. Let's talk a little bit about history because that's what Alicent was sort of consumed by in this episode. I loved Alicent Hightower history buff trying to find all the books, all of Viserys' books. She really needs a Kindle. I really like that line where Aegon's like, I didn't burn them. I just put them away. Perfectly delivered. Incredible. Incredible scene. What do you think she's looking for in those books? And do you think her true interest in the history is

evident to Larys when they have that conversation, which I said I loved. Yeah, it was a fantastic scene. I think, like, so many things about this episode, the what she's looking for is open to interpretation. That's part of why it's interesting. I think, like, if we consider Alyson's character and the time that we have spent with her across the series, we see her drop that stone dragon, right, in this episode. Right.

It's the same stone dragon that Viserys dropped. We talked about what a harbinger that was at the time. She repaired it for him, and he was so moved by this one little gesture of kindness that he was like, what if I marry my daughter's best friend? Right? She gave me a Lego. A rare Lego. I love a Lego, so I would probably have responded similarly. But-

But what were they talking about during the dragon dropping scene? That was when she was asking Viserys, do you believe Westeros can be another Valyria? Yeah. And so it feels very intentional that we're reminded of the way that she used to ask him about his obsession with history and those lessons. We've heard Rhaenyra talk about the lessons from Viserys. And on the one hand, it's like, okay, some characters maybe are heeding history or trying to. But on the other-

Viserys fucked up all the time. And in the moments where he was barely hanging on to life, he sat there and looked at Lionel Strong and said, are people gonna remember me as a good king? Yeah. Right? And so we think of Alicent as a person who sat there under the weirwood with Rhaenyra holding that book.

and studying and trying to learn. And that's the page that she gives Otto to take to Dragonstone. Like it's a page out of the history books to try, that was her olive branch, right? So I think that she does want to learn and understand. She used to read to the old king, Jaehaerys, but that has always, that like desire and I think genuine interest

has always been entwined for Alicent with how she was deployed as a pawn in some fucked up warped game of politics, the Game of Thrones, you might perhaps call it, Chris? Yeah, I might. If you were so inclined. And so like the motivation, I think that it's interesting that we see her, you referenced it already, flat out ask Orwell, do you believe Viserys wanted Aegon to succeed him? But when Larys says to her-

do you now doubt his intentions? She doesn't bite. She says, like, his intentions side with him, people will believe what they want to believe. Right, which builds off that, like, it's too late, Rhaenyra conclusion to last week's episode. She knows now that she misinterpreted his final words. And so I feel like she's looking for...

Guidance? Justification? She's looking for proof one way or another, right? Because as you say, this is an oral tradition of a prophecy. I think she wants to see if it's written, if she reads the prince who was promised in a book somewhere, she's going to know even more that she fucked up. But I do think the way she responded to Laris speaks a little bit more about how her walls are up around... I was so sad watching Alison in this episode because I'm just like, hashtag get Alison a friend in season three, please. Yeah.

Like, Orwile, her desperate bid for Orwile's input when she has no relationship with him. Or Laris, who's, like, constantly spinning around him. I have to say, though, I like... I feel like this show is maturing in the sense that no two scenes with the same two characters are exactly the same. And so Laris and Allison's relationship is always...

dependent on the circumstances. When Allison feels like she's surrounded by, like, her husband or her father or her kids or whatever, like, she's a little bit like, get out of my way, Laris. When she's alone, she's like, this is truly the only sentient person I can have a conversation with. And he kind of understands her even if he's also a sex criminal. You know, like, he gets it. You know, he...

Yeah, and I also felt it was an incredible performance from Olivia Cooke in this episode. I also had plenty of moments of feeling like these pangs for Allison in that isolation. But I don't know. You watch her in that scene with Egon. That was sickening. Oh, no. Like, absolutely sickening. And it's not Allison's fault.

that Aegon is a monster. To be clear. She's like, what would you possibly say? Do you simply what is needed of you? Nothing. What thoughts would you have? Like, these are the cycles that repeat. This is exactly what her father did to her. What would you have desired it otherwise when Otto finally said that to her in the Green Council episode last season? And she said, how could I know and had to confront the fact that she had just been this tool for him? That's what she's doing with him. That's what's so great about this show. Yeah, it's incredible.

It's incredible. Is that all these characters, like we can feel a bit for Damon as he's pushing, we'll talk about that in a little while, but like that doesn't excuse all the stuff that Damon isn't like. Exactly. Characters scene to scene can be the villain or the hero of the show. And that's why the dance in particular is such an interesting story to tell. You know, not only because it's a family torn apart and a house fighting against itself, but because there is that gray all around. The characters, we might be

not you, Green Curious, to be Team Black, but were appalled by some of the things that are happening from that faction. And it was really wonderful in this episode to see Damon have to confront the fact that specifically the thing he did is why other houses are. Like Simon just said, all right, that's sad business. That's sad business. Like the thing

That you did, by the way. And we all know you did. Do you feel like you've gotten off all your takes about why that Laris and Allison scene was your favorite? Because you really loved it. Well, I mean, first of all, like the entire setup of it with her with the hot stones on her stomach, I was going to ask about the moon tea in a second. Leaving out the moon tea. And then letting Laris in. Tough. There's a lot of chatter about how much Laris knows about everything in this story. And I find his...

Watching his performance, knowing that there is discourse about how much is he orchestrating certain things? How much is he pushing people into certain roles? His performance comes alive when you're like, wow, what's this guy thinking about right now? How about that moment watching him watch Eamon dunk on Egon? And he's like, whoa. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mark you. Matthew Needham is like my... Well, Eve Best is actually my MVP of this episode, but Matthew Needham as Laris is like so good in this episode when he says, a rich indulgence indeed. Do you want to talk about the moon tea a little bit? Yeah, so she takes the moon tea. Is this a rejection of Kristen? I assume he is the father. Or is it more of her saying...

her bringing a child into a world on fire is a mistake? Or is it an example of how men can have bastards left and right, but for someone like Alison, being pregnant and then be like, well, who's the father? That's not a socially acceptable position for her being. How did you read that decision? Because I thought brilliantly they did not explicitly say, I need the moon tea because of X. Right.

I love that you put that in proximity to the Bastard East or the Dragon Seed storyline. That was something that had not occurred to me. But we have seen Moon T crucially a couple times in the series so far.

When Laris first comes to her in the garden in season one, and he's working his angles, and he's like, oh, is Rhaenyra feeling better? For Mellos to have brewed it himself. Yeah, Mellos brewed her some tea. I don't know what it could possibly have been for. That tips Alyson off to what Rhaenyra has lied to her about. So the moon tea is so significant there. And then we saw it again towards the end of the season when she...

Diana, the serving girl that her son had sexually assaulted, take it in this really horrifying scene where she's wearing the biggest seven-pointed star necklace that she has ever worn. So it speaks to...

Her hypocrisy... I mean, yeah, she's done with Chris and Cole. I certainly think they're done after what happened at Rook's Rest. Do you think he's going to come back and she's like, great job? Yeah, thanks for... I think it's over for those two. It was already we think over, but now it feels like really over. So, like, it's not just... I think, yeah, I don't want Chris and Cole's kid. Yeah. I can't be seen to be pregnant at all because I, you know...

project this virtuous, like, religious... Yeah, she's the dowager. Like, whatever. But also just...

connecting that dot between her experience with Kristen and the Moontea and Raniere's experience with Kristen and the Moontea just underlines her hypocrisy. And again, as you said, because she knows what Lyris will do with that kind of information because she was the recipient once. She has to be... Vague. Thinking, no, thinking, confronting that now. What does it mean that he walked in and saw this? Like, what will he do with that information about me? Yeah, and so...

Why don't we move to the dragon fight? Okay. Great episode of television, man. Yeah, I mean, what I'm trying to do, it's funny because we started with all these kind of more intimate scenes, I think, even like an intimate scene between Aemon and his brother who's somewhere under there, presumably at the end of the dragon fight. But the dragon fight was extraordinary and it did give me flashbacks to Peak Throne's holiday weekend. You just get the feeling like everybody's going to be watching this and that everybody's jaw is going to be on the floor. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay, so Mal, in Game of Thrones, we got Drogon and Viserion fighting above Winterfell. That was like the main- Leaving out Rhaegal. Why are you leaving out Rhaegal? What?

What did he do? He was there. He was also there. He was also there. You're like, this is like how we wound up with episode four of the final season. Danny kind of forgot about the Iron Fleet. And Chris Ryan kind of forgot about Rhaegar. By that. It was visually a little bit murky. It's dark in Winterfell, right? Like we haven't gotten a dragon fight like this before.

It was cool to see, like, this is what they wrote all of the, like, sort of mythology and songs and poetry about. Like, seeing this happen, I have a lot of comments about it, but what, if you can tell me, was your favorite or heartbreaking moment of the dragon-on-dragon fight that we saw above Rick's rest? I mean, I thought all of this was incredible. Like...

I think you bringing up the Long Night episode where we saw multiple dragons engaged in combat and entwined, that tooth and claw idea that George likes to write about makes complete and total sense. It makes me think of Damon at the end of season one when he's trying to do the dragon math saying, it's no easy thing for a man to be a dragon slayer, but dragons can kill dragons and have. And to show us that is important. Obviously, we saw Vhagar

kill Luke and Arax at the end of last season. But to see the... That wasn't a fight. That wasn't a fight, exactly. To see them, like, why they call it the dance, right? They're entwined. There's that, like, twirling. And the fluidity. Like, it's Vhagar and Maile sort of twirling and on fire towards the ground. That's, like, the true dance movement. So there's, like, the, oh, this is what inspired the singers. But then we think to what Rini said last week, savage beyond all comparison.

And I think that was inescapable in this episode. And so the thing from Thrones actually that it makes me think of most is really spoils of war. Like that shock of seeing Dany arrive on Drogon and just annihilate- Oh, when she attacks the Lannisters. Everyone below her.

And, you know, a moment, like, after the battle where Kristen has to, I promise I don't answer your question, but, like, I think the horror is important to talk about first. Oh, like the guy who's, like, incinerated. Reaching out to a waiting... That's amazing. ...bedder bear. Yeah. There's a moment also where Reese is, like, flying back over everybody, and, like, she literally, there's nothing left for her to burn. Like, it's... The ground is scarred and on fire and bloody. She just looks so...

and just like absolutely done. The burned bodies. So it's just like horrific the way that we first see, I think that shot of Vhagar first rising in response to the Lord of the Ringsian, Light the Beacons summons is going to be like an instantly iconic shot.

Amon looks like a... For me, it's like the wing tips. Peanut on top. And then... The wing tips beating just like above the tree line. The wing over the tree line. And then later after the first kind of descent to the earth, the way that Vhagar is walking, marching through the battlefield. It doesn't matter what side you're on. Right? Everything in the path is...

then you can't survive. And you can't survive a war like this. We really, really, really need to be sure if we're going to do this. Exactly. Can I tell you the moment, okay, so there's like clawing, there's biting, there's all sorts of stuff that we see like, okay, this is what we can expect from a dragon in battle. I was prepared for people to get burned. I was prepared for people to get stomped on. I think the thing that I was like, oh yeah, that's a thing too, was just the,

tonnage of dragon blood that just sort of steaming dragon blood that just spattered on people and almost it was like burning them. Yeah, absolutely. It was like hot dragon blood on your face. Or diet xenomorph blood. So...

on the Sunfire front and Maylee's and now I'll answer your question about the most extraordinary part I think like what struck me most because it is horrifying and you're like fuck this is gonna be really thrilling to watch on Sunday nights together and everybody's gonna be like holy shit I can't can't be late to House of the Dragon this week this is kind of like what's in store for us on a regular basis now this episode didn't just feel like a war movie in 56 minutes it felt unapologetically like a fantasy story yeah sure and that's

- The connection. - So you see-- - Between rider and dragon. - Yes, the bond on display in a way that was so incredible. Like some of the lines from Fire and Blood that I love the most are the ones that actually just ultimately say we can't understand the bond, we don't know it.

we shall not pretend to any understanding of the bond between dragon and dragon riders. Or some will claim that the bond between a dragon and dragon rider runs so deep that the beast shares his master's loves and hates. But who was the ally here and who the enemy? Does a riderless dragon know friend from foe? The lore of what is linking that rider and that dragon is such a crucial part of the mythology of what makes this a fantasy story. And this episode embraced that in a way that I think

was one of the real laments for fantasy fans at the end of Game of Thrones. Think of something like Jon not saying goodbye to ghosts at Winterfell. - She's like, oh, so you just had a full-bodied tremor thinking of it, and I knew what you were gonna say. - It kills me. It kills me. - You were like shaking, and I was like, she's not talking about ghosts. - And it was crushing, and it honestly still is. And so you see Rhaenys go-- - We can do it. - You see Rhaenys go into the Dragonmount, and you see Aegon,

I love that you're getting this emotional. I love it. A guy's ash inside of his own helmet. I told Chris I was going to cry. Oh, God. You see Aegon. He's a piece of shit, right? Yeah. You see him go to the dragon pit and Sunfire comes out and gives him like a little nuzzle. A little headbutt like a cat giving you the side of their cheek. A real Sean Fennessey the nuzzler moment. That's exactly what I thought of. I was like, we're back.

Big pick 99 draft the Nuzzlers here. The way that Rhaenys is like pressed against Maelys' side almost like in prayer and Maelys looks back over her shoulder and that's what happens in that final moment of her death. Eye contact between Maelys and Rhaenys. Vhagar latches onto her jaw and it's like coals going out in a fire. Yeah. And the last thing that Maelys does is look back in her rider. It was beautiful. Yeah.

I thought it was cool. I thought it was cool. No, no. I loved it. It felt important. It did. I will say, I completely agree. I think the effort that they made

to show the connection between Dragon and Rider. I do wish we had seen Sunfire before this episode. This is tough. Our guy is in rough shape. When Kristen and Amed walk up at the end and he's just, like, heaving and torn and tattered and smoky blood. I want to shout out the VFX department. They did an incredible job. I want to shout out our friend Paula Fairfield on the audio design. Oh, man. Because some of the, like, hooting, like,

wounded seagull sounds of sunfire. Awful. Anguish. Just incredible. The shot, I don't know who was responsible. Like, we could give credit to Alan Taylor who directed this episode. I'm not sure who exactly storyboards the logistics of the fight. But the shot of Rainice, her going down, this like,

Dr. Strangelove, Flynn Pickens riding the nuke shot of her going down. Yeah, exactly. Having latched in that sound before. Dragon seatbelts. We had not seen much of them before today. It was pretty amazing. There's this line that Rooney's had in season one that we've talked about a lot. It was in the very first trailer. Men would rather set the realm ablaze than see a woman ascend the Iron Throne.

Like, do you think Rainey's just thinking, I was right! You know, like, is that her final thought as she goes out? Okay, I will just say that my favorite part of the battle was just how they took in all the POVs. So you got to see what it would look like if you were just...

a foot soldier. Just a guy on the ground. It was just like, what in the fuck did I sign up for? Yeah. And so that was cool. Also, we just have to say, Vhagar popping up from behind Rook's rest to get Maelis the last time was like... So good. That was sick. Tiny castle, pathetic prize, as Aegon said, still big enough to hide. That's perfect. I agree. Because it's all stupid, so of course it was done over the equivalent of like...

a convention center somewhere. You know what I mean? Like, it was not like, this is the crucial hinge to all of the crown lands or like, this is how we get this. And that's what's so devastating about Rhaenys' death. I mean, we will have like, and by the way, like she's definitely, she fell and then everything blew up. And Maelis is like, oh, what a

upside down as she falls into the curtain of the castle. So there's going to be fallout from that, for sure, of like, Rhaenys is the one who went and when there were all these other candidates of who could have gone. But also, Rhaenys is the one for so long who's like, we can't take this last step. We can't take this last step. And she's the first one to pay the price for it. May I ask a question? Sure. That I didn't prep you for, but it's just, how many of the people who just fought today

Aemond has been in a battle before. Well, Aemond hasn't really. He killed a kid. That was batting practice for him. Chris and Cole have seen some combat. Oh, I meant Dragonriders. No, I know. Dragonriders, that's an odd line that I don't know if we know how to explain when Rhaenys is back into battle, girl or whatever. And neither Rhaenys nor Melys has been to battle.

Maelys has been around. Yeah. Had a prior rider, Alyssa. Alyssa. Viserys and Daemon's mom. Yeah. Actually, so that's a fun little tie. I was like looking back, I was like, did we miss some act of battle? I was pouring over the top. I couldn't believe it. And I actually, I came across this line from her father, Prince Aenar.

So this definitely feels like a little bit of a show update, but I think one of the fun things about now going back through those stretches is going to be like, could Rhaenys and Maelys have...

been there? Could it be another example of like the history's not accounting for the queen who never was and the red queen actually entering the fray? She was actually at the Stepstones. We just never saw her. Who knows? Vhagar has been to battle. Yeah, I can tell. Quite a few battles. Vhagar since the conquest. And obviously in season one, they're not here for this fight here at Rook's Rest, but you know, you got to see, you always are thinking of your guy, the crab feeder. You got to see Graxies in battle of the Stepstones, Seasmoke in battle of the Stepstones. You forgot about

I remember the crappier. I forgot how he went. I think you can tell that for Sunfire, this is like clearly the first time out. Sunfire's a real show pony. This is really, this was, I also thought they did an amazing job of the scaling of the sizes because you see Maileys and Sunfire initially entwined and you're like, Sunfire looks so small.

Maelys looks huge. And then when Vhagar has Maelys, that just flips right on its head and Maelys looks... When Vhagar just snatches Maelys out of the sky, there's another line from the book that says, and I'm just going to paraphrase it, which is that

If it had been Maelys versus Vhagar... Yes. Against Vhagar alone, she might have had some chance. She might have had some chance. But with Sunfire in the mix, it's curtains. You get to the end of this episode, and then the entire episode takes on a kind of different...

because of what happens to Rhaenys at the end. So let's go to the other sort of crucial scene with her. Yeah. Which is when she's talking with Corlys and has met Alan for the first time. Yeah. Presumably for the first time. She obviously intuits, knows. And she touches his face. Touches his face. And that wasn't the first time that she met. And every time they run into each other, she's like, I didn't know you were so cold. How do I know you're cold?

That would be weird. Radical face-flip. That would be weird. Did you feel as though there were connection, there was a connection between these two moments? She realizes her husband has this life beyond her. He's been distant the last couple of episodes where he's like, I have to get back on this boat. I'm not thinking about my family. I'm just thinking about myself. It turns out he has like another family pretty much. She's kind of like... She already knew. Like my, the implication was that she already knew, um,

that it wasn't like her favorite thing that Corlys has ever done. This is obviously something that he did long ago, but while they were married, in their marriage. Yeah, I think the way she was like, you didn't feel like you should mention that he's the one who kind of implied it. I know who he is, right? I think what was more important, the sort of picture is this like anti-Catelyn Stark, right? She says, Alan's past is no fault of his. He saved his lord's life. He should be raised up and honored, not hidden beneath the tides. So I think that's just something that like,

Corliss is going to be thinking about... Yes. Yes. Now that Rhaenys is gone. Yeah. What she said there. I think that's why that scene is there. Yeah. I'm having... I will say this is like my biggest note on the episode, which broadly I loved and thought was extraordinary. I... There's something about that Corliss-Rhaenys conversation. Like, they see each other at the council meetings. But he doesn't say anything to her when she's like, I'm gone. Right. Right. She's like, they make eye contact, she leaves. Okay. I think on the one hand, that feels...

Like sometimes in real life, people die and you didn't end on good terms. And like you have to carry that forever. Corliss is going to have to carry that. If you're going to the first dragon battle. Yes, maybe have like a moment where you say, okay, well, we have been talking a lot about how it seems like really bad things are going to happen. I have pot pie in the microwave. So just like you can fire that up tonight if I'm not home yet. Yes, exactly.

That's not the lamprey pie, though, right? We just said some of the rich indulgence. The rich indulgence, yeah. That part I do love. Like, Corliss is going to have to carry that forever. That was their, in essence, parting.

To your question, though, I will just say, like, I really hope that's not the interpretation that people have. That she sacrificed herself because of an unhappy wife? Yeah, I don't think, like, the idea that Rhaenys, the queen who never was, like, a princess of House Targaryen, is gonna say, fuck it, I have to die now because my husband fucked another woman is, like, I don't,

think, like when you're asking... I hope not what they're going for. I don't think what they're going for. When you were saying she goes off to Rook's Rest already knowing the outcome, that was not my sense because they think there's no other dragons. Yeah. That's the trap. Her resignation is like... They're taking these small castles. I'm gonna go light a bunch of people on the ground. Yeah, I gotta go. I avoided doing it

I mean, I killed a bunch of small folk at the coronation, but I didn't light anyone up with my dragon, right? And so she's been like really the one putting the brakes on this. So her whole like, it's got to be me, I guess, is this like moment for her of there's no other choice. Rhaenyra did exactly what she asked for last episode. She's like, you know, the young kids, the young bucks, the boys, they want to go to battle. We can't go to battle alone.

let's figure out a way to talk to Allison. Rene's like, guess what? I did it. I didn't work. I'm wearing her cover. I did try. Do you like my outfit? I've just not changed out of it. I'm still wearing it. And she's like, I did, she did exactly what Rene asked her to do. So now there's no other choice. That's my read on it. I hadn't thought about her, the coronation knot,

lighting everybody up and they shot in such a way and it's cool because you get such an intimate perspective of the dragon rider's faces while they're doing it. Like they create a reality within the episode or in the show where you can both see people's facial expressions while they are flying at hell. You see the joy on Aegon's face when he sees Aemon. He's like, thank the gods. And he's like, oh, maybe I shouldn't have bullied him. Um,

Rhaenys seems... I mean, to my eye, there's opportunities to be like, oh, I'm outnumbered. I should probably flee. Absolutely. So from the book, Prince Rhaenys made no attempt to flee. And I think to Jo's point, a couple things. One, it's interesting that you guys are mentioning the Dragon Pit explosion. It did have a whiff of like... Finish the job. Dave Filoni makes the Clone Wars to fix the Star Wars prequels. Yeah. Like...

They did a thing with Renise in the Dragon Pit in season one, episode nine, that just made no sense. And they shouldn't have done. And it was the low point of season one, but it happened in the show. And so I do think then we can say...

I don't think she ever thought it was a mistake. That's the only kind of complicated thing with this. But we haven't really seen her wrestle with any kind of guilt for not doing that. She genuinely stood by that corner of like, this was not my war to start. Right, when Damon brings it up at the beginning of the season, she just brushes it off. But I don't think what she's seeing here, like what Jo said, they exhausted every attempt to avoid it. It's here. She just saw Amon's

with reckless abandon, burn his own brother. Right? She's like, I have to do anything. This is here. The thing I did everything I could to avoid is here. I have to do whatever I can, even if it means my life, to try to stop anything I can. And this is where I, this is why I would put, not that we're doing like, who won the episode or MVP or whatever, but like, this is where I would put Yves Bess,

facial expressions there. Her resignation, her weariness. So, just so incredible. And the line in the book is like, with a glad cry, I think, she turned around. I like that that's not, she's not with a battle lust here. It's just sort of like, well, we're in it. I can't go back. I have to finish this. Yeah. Yeah, I thought...

I think that coming out of this, the thing that's the coolest is that despite the fact that there are so many incredible set pieces and some people talking about this dragon fight for, you know, however months, years, you'll go back and be like, man, that was so interesting. I wonder what this character was thinking when that happened. And it's the same thing for Eamon where you're just like,

Did he decide on the spot, like in the last second, to go for his brother too because that would be convenient? Did Rhaenys decide, like, I'll die trying to stop Aemon because if Aemon gets out of this, like, we're all dead? Yeah, like all that stuff is yet to be determined. And I thought that was just a really cool use of kind of gray area in this episode. You know what else was a gray area? Yeah.

Harrenhal? Harrenhal, yeah. Here's the thing. This show now has like super dragon fights and it's awesome and it has the political aspect of people talking in rooms and it also got its weird back. Oh, yeah. So Damon's plot line, which I could see, broadly speaking, maybe some people are like, this is like, I don't know if I want this guy to just be tripping every episode because he's too cool. I do. Couldn't be me. Simply could not be me. I'm loving this. This is all I want.

I want. Let's just talk about this. Incredible, yeah. He is already kind of slipping through time and space anyway in his dreams. Alice gives him this- I love this. You're making it sound like Slaughterhouse-Five. Let's go. Okay, so how does he take a sip of this drink and then wind up in the middle of a meeting? Yes, weren't me, if I were having incredibly disturbing visions and dreams in a clearly haunted, cursed abode, I would not-

Drink the offered potion from the witch. From a woman who I just called a witch. Yes, I would not. From a woman who was already brewing it before I walked into the kitchen. And seems a bit cynical about my... But maybe he's carrying a lot of regret for having passed on the aged venison, and he's like, you know, that did seem like a delicious meal. I don't want to make that mistake. You've got to get your protein somehow. This is... Everything with Damon in this episode was incredible. The fact that we...

I'll go out of order and we'll go back to the throne room vision of Rhaenyra.

We just are like Luke in the cave on Dagobah with him pursuing Aemond, and then it's his face, right? What I loved about that too, I rewound it like so many times, is that you never see his face, but it's definitely you and Mitchell because of the gates, like the way he's walking. That's definitely him, and then it turns around. Yeah. What's in there? This is some real Star Wars stuff. Only what you take with you, Chris. That was fantastic. But what did you guys make of the fact that

The throne, it's not just young Rhaenyra again, wonderful, and we get to see, he sees Laena. Yeah. Pregnant. Yes, pouring the drinks at the table. Great, great stuff from Sir Simon throughout the episode, but the way that he is watching Daenerys in that sequence, I love when it cuts throughout who the woman was because she's a perfectly lovely woman, but she is buttoned up to here, so he's staring at this woman. It's not like he's leering at someone. It's just this incredible stuff. Incredible stuff. But it's just like the throne room is, first of all, it's like,

Perfect and key location for us to associate with any sort of like ominous vision in Game of Thrones. We think of, you were, Chris, you were on it with Qarth in House of the Undying. Like it makes us think of Dany in her throne room visions. But the throne room has just been the setting for so many crucial Daemon moments in this series so far. His first glimpse, he's sitting on the throne when Rhaenyra goes in. Ser Herald's like, gods be good, right? The gall of it.

he gives Rhaenyra the little Valyrian steel necklace in that scene. Like, we both have a piece of our history. It's a perfect flip of that, right? Like, she walks in, he's sitting on the throne, and he walks down and they're speaking Valyrian to each other. I was going back, Dawn,

Don't ask me why. I was going back through and looking at all the times they spoke Valyrian in season one, and someone has handily put together a 20-plus minute video on YouTube of all the high Valyrian in season one. It's like 80... Do you think that guy is like, good week work here? Listen, good job. I'm glad that it exists. But like, it's 80...

Could have been. It's 85, like through her dragon tears she did it, yeah. It's 85% Daemon talking to Rhaenyra. Yeah, that scene, the episode four, like discussion about marriage. But it also thinks, I mean, again, it makes us think of Dany, like Valerian is my mother tongue, that reveal. Then we connect this to the shaming of Aegon. Like what does it mean if you're not in touch with your own lineage and heritage like that? Think of how like Jace was so frustrated with himself in season one for not being able to learn Valerian well enough. But also the throne room is of course where Viserys...

ousted Daemon from his life and kingdom more than once. So this has been the site of his ambition, but also his shame. And it's been the place where he has voiced aloud what it means to be a Targaryen and not been met with the thing he was seeking on the other side. And I love the idea of like, because it's not actually

It's actually Rhaenyra. It's Daemon's subconscious manifesting this thing. And it's also like the innocence that he is sort of like... You created me, though. Like, what does it mean for that to be the thing that she voiced? Not just the thing about who Viserys loved more, but you created me. Because on the one hand, it really like speaks to Daemon's arrogance, right? That there's a part of him that thinks that's true. But then the shame, like...

Like, I created you because Viser, and Viser said it in front of that bonfire to Alicent. Like, I named her heir to save the realm from Daemon. Yeah. And he has to confront that. I thought I kind of, for some reason, Daemon and Harrenhal made me think a little bit about Alicent sort of alone in her chambers with her history books where it's like, I am isolated and available to be manipulated. Yeah. And the question we have to ask ourselves and we don't know the answer because this is an embellishment of what happened in the books. Like, in the book it's like, Daemon went to Harrenhal and...

He was not very affected by his time there. Yeah. And we're like, oh, no. We don't, what is Alice's motivation here? Right. Yes. Like, how much is she pulling the strings? I say all of them. I don't know, but I say. And like, what does she want to accomplish? And her picking at, you know, like, you had a quarrel, quarreling with your wife. Yeah. You know, like, all of it. And he's like, how do you know that? Right. Because you're here. Because you haven't censorated. Is she just trying to like, is she team green and actively against

Daemon, or is she just trying to, like, oust any sort of, like, foreign invasion into Harrenhal? Or, like, what do you know? Like, watching Game of Thrones, it's like every time you think it's a two-player game, it winds up being a three or four or five-player game, and that there is all these other influences and all these other interests going on without knowing anything about who she is. Condal said something really fascinating about, like, that this season would be all about the examination of Rhaenyra and Daemon's marriage. And Mally and I both were like, how are they going to

do that when Rhaenyra and Daemon are together at this point in the plot and like the answer is for Daemon at least through these various dreams he's processing something and Alice is challenging him on that front as well and so what how is he going to be changed by this

when and if he sees Rhaenyra again. Like, how will this impact the way that he sees her? Oh, yeah. I mean, that's... We're so excited for that. Like, is Paddy Ponsonine coming back? Yeah. I really want it. In terms of how he's affected by it and what he, like, learns from it, I don't think any lessons have taken root, where would or otherwise, quite yet. Because when sweet little Oscar Tully shows up, he's just like, would you consider...

smothering your grandsire to death with a feather pillow. But like a soft feather pillow. Incredible stuff. It's like all very touching. Your guy, Willem Blackwood, did you pick up the connection? Remember him from season one? He mentions... He was the one who was vying for her hand. And what happened there? I don't remember. Killed the bracken. Oh, wow. Young blood running hot. Yeah. Beef goes back so far. They're always feuding. Great stuff. Before we go... Of course. Just real quick shout out

To our guy, Gwaine Hightower, who hates to camp. You know what I love? No one hates camping more than Gwaine Hightower. I mean, no surprise, but Freddie is so good. Do you know what I love? Rational. Is when they just put like a normal guy on a Game of Thrones show, on House of Dragons. Like he is just like, I'd like to go to the bar. I would like to listen to the new Zach Bryan record. And I do not want to sleep outside. The way that he looked when, because I don't think he has, yeah, he later, but like the way he's just like staring dazed while Kristen Cole beheads. Yeah.

Yeah. Lord Darkland. And he's like, Harrenhal's over there. And he's just like, no, but he's just not like, he's just seen some shit. He's just got some like blood on his face. Yeah. He was like so perfectly coiffed and I was just like dirty and bloody and just like, I'm done. I loved the way he said fucking madness with Kristen. That was so good. But then the line about being rational. He's like, are you scared? He's like, no, worse. I'm rational. And it would feel worse to be rational if you were surrounded by people who you did not think were capable of behaving rationally. Yeah, because imagine having to like be with Kristen Cole all day. Totally. But also,

he gets to steal a little of Kristen Cole's glory because he's leading the vanguard at the very end. Into the breach! And Kristen's like, I have, like, a concussion and many broken ribs and everything around me. The neurologist has pulled me from the field. Absolute ash. Yeah, I am in concussion protocol. On the Kristen front, quickly, the way that his horse's armor is covered in seven-pointed star armor

and his big, like, I'm going to try to be Aragorn for a minute here speeches for the seven have blessed and shielded this host with divine purpose. Like, the way that he is trying to use righteousness and piety as his cloak. I do want to give him some credit, though. That's an improv, right? He's like, shit, the king's here. I thought that was great. He got them to march forward with a dragon fire above them. That was impressive. Yeah.

On the execution front, I love that this thinking of this tradition in Thrones of like the person that you were about to execute cursing you with their final words.

I thought it was absolutely chilling when Kristen said to Lord Darkland, Sir Stefan of Rhaenyra's Queensguard, his father, very sad moment. Jace was like, I'll let you mourn later. I need to yell at my mother. Publicly in front of all the men who have been undermining her. Real John Sansa, like, have your argument in private vibes from them in that stretch, but you should thank me for it.

when he said that to Lord Darklyn about the nature of his death. And then Darklyn says, yours will come in kind. It made me think of like Sir Roger and Theon, right? Karstark and Rob, Alistair Thorne and Jon. This is a cleaner cut. Incredible stuff. Than what Theon was able to manage. Yeah, good short stroke, short swing. My last note, Kristen could maybe go to a tailor and get that stuff loosened up a little bit.

bit because I feel like he's real stiff. I don't know, man. He's like a contact hitter, right? High batting average. Chokes up a little bit. Advanced stats, love him. So you mentioned, Joe, earlier the idea of the dragon skull that Rhaenyra and Jace are in front of maybe being a stone because we do see a stone. I mean, it could be. So I wanted to ask if you saw it because this would be, to be clear, a stone.

change of canon, and so I am prepared to be wrong about this. Okay, so just let's reset. So Rhaenyra and Jace are having... Rhaenyra brings Jace in to tell her about the Song of Ice and Fire. We can see the skull through. It looked to me like...

the eye socket was blown out, which made me think it was Meraxes. Oh, could be. Because Meraxes is killed at Hellhold, as you know. Both eye sockets are just one. Just the one. We'll aim and foreshadow. So the fact that this was Meraxes' death at Hellhold was the first dragon death of the Conquest felt like a real harbinger, but Meraxes' rider...

It just felt like a little signal of what was to come. But also, we've also seen Rhaenyra, a different Rhaenyra. We've also seen Rhaenyra. And again, Maelys, not the first dragon death here. Again, RIP Aerax and your sweet little wing. We mourn you still. But it felt like a little harbinger. So all of the skulls are at the Red Keep as far as we know. But I was wondering, I was chatting with our colleagues, Riley and Cram about this. Could they have put this skull at Dragonstone and then moved it or something elsewhere? I like the idea that that might be.

I love it. Maybe someone in the comments will let us know. Thank you so much for watching Talk to Thrones. That was episode four. Speed along your inheritance. Yeah, speed along your inheritance. Again, Ringerverse, live at the LRA. Go to theringer.com slash events or the LRA website for tickets. For Joanna Robinson and Mallory Rubin, I'm Chris Ryan. We will be back next Sunday for episode five, What Could Possibly Happen Next? Halfway. I know. Ugh.

Don't drink anything a witch gives you.