‘Rings of Power’ Season 2 Primer and Favorite Moments From Season 1 | House of R
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Welcome to Yada Yada. This season on Yada Yada Island. When we were new, they spoiled me. They even gave me a phone. But then, it's like I didn't exist. Don't take Yada Yada from your wireless carrier. Now with Metro, get that new customer feeling again and again. Introducing Metro Flex. Free 5G phones when you join, same deals as new customers when you stay. Only at Metro by T-Mobile.

Just bring your number and ID and sign up for an eligible plan. After 12 months, trade in and get our best deals on select devices. This episode is brought to you by The Home Depot. It's that time of year, so spread more joy with The Home Depot's giant holiday decor. Go big this holiday season with larger-than-life decor that really hits home. Be like my wife. She'll just go to Home Depot to see what they got cooking. She's always ready to plan for the holidays. Maybe that's a tree.

You can put together in a few clicks like the Grand Duchess. That sounds great. Or a huge eight-foot towering Santa with poseable arms and a flame effect lantern. That might be in front of my house. Or an eight-and-a-half-foot towering reindeer with illuminated flashing bells. That's the holiday spirit at the Home Depot. Shop in-store or online now at homedepot.com. Hello and welcome back to House of R. I'm Joanna Robinson. Joining me today, fresh,

from a vacation house on the East Coast. It is encroaching on our vacation time, Mallory Rubin. Hi Mallory, how are you doing? Joanna, were it easy, it would not require trust. So here we are. There you go. Okay, listen, here's what we're doing today.

We're here to give you a primer or primer, if you prefer, for season two of Rings of Power. Basically, we're just going to look back. We're going to take a little tour through Middle-Earth. Rings of Power debuts later this week. We will have our coverage of the first three episodes that are dropping later this week.

Can't wait to watch. So excited. We're so excited. Three whole episodes to go at the end of this week. So we will have that pod for you later this week. So this is going to be, we're going to be saving a lot of our energy for this, for that. So this is going to be like a zippy little, we're going to zoom all over the map. We're checking in on all the main locations and also some like of the nomadic friendships. If they don't have a location associated with them, we've picked the main things. We've picked nine moments slash people.

Like the nine rings from mortal men. And that's what we're going to be talking about today. And we're really excited. We've got clips.

We've done our rewatches. We're here to refresh you and sort of like talk about what came before and how that informs what we expect to come in season two. A brief breezy return. The professor's here. We're here. We're excited. Professor is always welcome. I'm thrilled. I'm delighted to be doing this. I can't wait to be back in Middle Earth together. We're here again with Carlos, who did the Rings of Power run with us last year. So it's like a fun little reunion there. John is a

Lord of the Rings obsessive in this year with us. I'm a little nervous. I don't want to be wrong in front of John Richter. I find it purely comforting. It's like we've got a built-in fact check. Wonderful stuff. You were in a new setup. You have a gorgeous, stunning, only just when the Riverside tile expanded could I see that you were in an absolutely stunning, stunning

newly curated office space. This is beautiful. Absolutely wonderful. It's just I finally decided to unpack my... It was like I moved in. I was in LA all summer and then I was like, hey, what if my office weren't like a bunch of packed boxes and a freestanding desk? Well, it looks fantastic.

I am a room that humans live in and Preston's here. He's tiny in the background, but he's still here. I should expect. So Preston is always going to be present for every pod that we ever do. If you're on the road, you're going to take Preston with you. I assume across your travels. I,

I am in like a bedroom, a small bedroom intended for, I think, children in this in this beach cottage. And there's no desk. So I'm perched on top of a dresser and there's no no room for my legs, which you, Carlos and John, had the privilege of listening to me complain about for no fewer than 17 minutes before we started recording. And so people are like, that looks like even more hunched and gnarled.

Unusual. Why? I thought you were doing a Gollum impression, but that's cool. Yeah. It's a hunch perch sort of situation, but...

Delicious. Yeah, that's just what I'm going to do. I'll pod. Iconic. All right. So let's just get into it. Let's just do it. Do it. Quick programming reminders, though, before we do that is just to let you know the Midnight Boys, pew, pew, are doing allegedly a mailbag. Very exciting. I've never, I don't think they've ever done like a full mailbag episode. So I'm excited to listen in. It's been a minute. Yeah. Okay. Butt Mash is doing Star Wars Outlaws.

First impressions of that. So that's exciting for people who play video games. And then, you know, we'll be back, as we said, to cover Rings of Power at the end of the week. So we're swinging back into fall. It's all happening. It's all getting into gear. Mallory, how can folks keep track of everything that's happening here and over the Ringiverse?

Thanks for asking. I would recommend that you follow the pod. Follow House of R on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Follow The Ringerverse on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. While you're at it, go follow The Ringerverse YouTube channel. Hit subscribe because you can get full video episodes of House of R and Midnight Boys on the YouTube channel and on Spotify. Delightful stuff.

You got your phone in your hand already. You're at your computer. Check out the social channels. The ringer verse is on Twitter, Instagram, tick tock, et cetera. Find us there and then send us an email because the inbox is open. Hobbits and dragons at gmail.com.

I have to let you know, I haven't shared many of them with you, but we've been getting a ton of emails from people who are so excited to be back in the world of Rings of Power along with us. This is genuinely true. People really love watching this show with us and it makes me really happy and a little emotional because we've also gotten tons of emails from people who have, who are watching Rings of Power just because they're

We're covering it and they don't want to stop listening after House of the Dragon. Love that. So like people were catching up with season one for the first time. We've heard from people genuinely who watched Lord of the Rings for the first time.

so that they could go on this journey with us. That blew my mind. So several people watched the Peter Jackson trilogy for the first time. How many of them specified whether they watched the theatrical cut or the extended editions? I think let's just ease people in. You and I are extended edition purists, but let's just go easy on folks. Okay, last but not least.

Yeah. We got an email this morning from Molly who let us know that she read all of Lord of the Rings for the first time. Hell yeah, Molly! Just to be into the lore with us. So...

I think she listened. She listened to the Andy Serkis audiobook. So great stuff. Wonderful stuff. Mallory and I were just in Chicago at the Lord of the Rings musical. We're planning to talk about that in a future episode. But we had a great time at the Lord of the Rings musical. Chicago Shakespeare. Thank you, Chicago Shakespeare, for having us. And thanks to all the bad babies who came up to say hi to us. It was really sweet to meet all of you there. Multiple Mikaylas. Delightful. Many Mikaylas. It was wonderful. All right. Let's get into it, shall we? I'm calling this Nine Moments for Mortal Men.

And because we cannot resist, or I cannot resist, reading a little bit of the text with you, we've got a little quote to go with each category. We're starting today in Khazad-dum with the dwarves. Quote, fair were the many pillared halls of Khazad-dum in elder days before the fall of mighty kings beneath stone.

So, here we are with the dwarves. Mallory and I picked whatever we wanted to pick to sort of exemplify these various topics. We do just briefly, like, maybe you need a little refresher. So, we should say, hey, listen, what happened in Khazad-dûm last season? It was a battle of Durin's, essentially. Elrond, the elf, the diplomat elf.

was on a mission to get both help building a great forge in Eregion and then eventually to mine some Mithril to help with some leaf rot over in Lindon, and we'll talk about that when we get there. But Elrond's friendship with Doran

And Doran's relationship with his wife, Disa, were some of the absolute highlights of season one for us. Doran and Elrond, it's very specific, but Disa is a treasure as well. So I actually found it pretty easy to pick clips for all these categories, like off the top of my head, pretty easy. This is the only one where I was like, actually...

deeply conflicted. This was the only one where I had multiple. I had multiple picks there from the same episode, but then I ended up with multiple picks in another category after realizing I had made a mistake elsewhere, which I will reveal when we get there. And so I have two of the nine categories where I have two clips, but this was the only one where I intended to.

Kazadum, a beautiful, wonderful, at the height of their power and beauty, dwarven city under the ground, under the mountain. Carlos, I guess, will you start with mine unless we have the same? So this is goodbye then? We do not say goodbye. We say namarie. It means more than simply farewell. It means go towards goodness.

Is that your moment as well, Mallory? Or did you pick something else from this episode? Well, I have two. I have two from this episode, and that was one of them. Should we just play the other one? They feel related to me, and then we can just talk about it. It might be my runner-up that I painfully had to cut. Carlos, go for it. I have absolutely no doubt that it is. I always thought you were made dwarvish for an elf. And you are a rather elvish dwarf, Durin. Son of Durin. Grandson. Scorf, if you like.

The mightiest thing a dwarf can do is to be worthy of the name of his father. We do have our secret names for use only amongst ourselves. We reveal them only to family. Wives, parents, sisters, brothers. You save it, Durin, for the Far Side.

I just found it genuinely impossible to pick between those two. They're two of the best moments in the entire show. Obviously, save it, Dorton, for the far side. Obviously, it was also my runner up. Okay, so listen.

Here's the deal with rings of power season one, having just freshly rewatched it. There are things that work well, there are things that work not as well. And then there are things that are exquisite and the Dern and Elrond friendship is exquisite. And every single second with them, I am wrapped. I am sat. I am like paying attention so closely. Um,

So this brotherhood, this bid for brotherhood when they're both quite sweaty having, you know, been digging for some mithril. Save it for the far side. Yeah.

And then Namari, it was really hard for me to pick between two. Namari I picked because part of it was like, we loved that scene so much. And then a bunch of our listeners just started signing all their emails to us. And that made me really emotional, very special. I already revealed on social that I like cried through most of the Lord of the Rings musical. And yeah,

The thing that I want to make a bid for here in this section is just to say, I was talking to a friend of mine about

I love Rainbow Rowland about her books. And we were talking about adapting them and how hard it would be to adapt them because it's so easy to make it saccharine because she's so sentimental, but never saccharine. And I was just like, yes. And that Tolkien is so sentimental, so unabashedly sentimental, and especially in these male friendships of

which we love to celebrate in the original Lord of the Rings and we love to celebrate here. This just like absolutely beautiful bond between two men who like just love each other. So, yeah. What do you want to say, Mallory Irvin? Just two perfect moments and two perfect scenes in one of the best episodes of the season. Both of those clips are from the seventh episode of The Penultimate, The Eye. And they feel really linked to me because, you know, Papa Duran,

has refused his son's request to help the elves. And when Durin and Disa see the Mithril's effect on the

the belief yeah he's blight and decide despite having discussed what this would mean what example it would set to defy not only during his father but their king it's not just an act of defiance then inherent in that it is an act of friendship and fellowship and found family and for that to win out for duran's

for Elrond to win out over his father's insistence on maintaining these like deeply insular ways was it just feels like such an important thing and so central. So many of the moments I picked felt about fellowship very emblematic of a core

Tolkienian idea and or a core House of R idea. Yeah. Sometimes both. That was like what I picked in almost every, yeah, in almost every case. Kind of amazing to rewatch the season and realize how many of our now two-year-old, you know, House of R bits, because it's been two years since season one came from this season of TV. That was really special. So like,

when Durin is saying to his father, because I loved the Durin-Durin scenes as well. And they're like just harrowing argument in the wake of this. And when Durin says, Elrond is as much of a brother to me as if he'd been fired in my own mother's womb. And there's like no greater endorsement of the bond that they have than him saying that out loud and saying it to his father. And of course it is like then the breach for his father. It's the thing that Durin can't take back. And so like,

wanting to share that secret name and then Elrond telling him to wait. And then obviously Namari, I just thought like go towards goodness was to me. It was very hard for me to pick. This is a classic, like here are my 100 top five moments. It's like, here are my 10. This was my one favorite moment of the season, but like go toward goodness is like in the running for me. I'll say that probably six times today about other things. And then,

that feels like a real link, like go towards goodness and save it for the far side, this promise of what awaits and how like in this story, in this world, the thing that gives you the strength to embrace the promise of what might await is that fellowship that you forge with somebody else. Cause like, how could you have the strength to believe in some other possibility on your own? You couldn't, it would be too hard. You have to have somebody in your life who helps you do that.

And, like, little things in those two scenes, the way that we realize they've, like, picked up each other's languages, right? They're making these real, genuine efforts to embrace other communities, other cultures, other ways of life. And it's just, like, so incredible. Which is something that Doran's father, also named Doran, is sort of dismissive of. Like, oh, so you've learned a few words of Stone Tongue, right? Like, good for you. And, you know, but it's like, no, it's...

Elrond doesn't have to teach Doran Namarie. He already knows Namarie, you know, and it's just, you know, absolutely, absolutely gorgeous. And in among all of that beauty, I do want to, the last thing I want to do sort of because episode seven is where we kind of leave the dwarves, is that Disa Doran moment. I just want to shout out when Disa gets a little,

Lady Macbeth-esque, right? And after Doran has been like... It's fine. Disowned. His... Ripped... The crest ripped from his... His chest by his father. And Disa says, you know...

This kingdom is yours and mine. And together we will rule this mountain and all others before our time is done. That myth reel belongs to us, to you and me. And together one day we are going to dig. And we were like, oh no. Oh no! Too greedily and too deep? Oh no.

oh no, it's yours and mine. Just felt a little, you know, wonderfully delivered. So that's the dwarves in Cousin Doom. Anything else you want to say about that? I love that to that point you just made like so many of the really successful moments in season one because of course this is a prequel.

right? And so the ability to simultaneously hit this note of promise and possibility and then also, like, issue some sort of, yeah, harbinger of doom and have those things feel, like, completely organically entwined was, I thought, one of the real achievements of the first season. I think the last thing I'll say on this one is, like, and just the friendship and the ideas that are present in those two clips that we just heard, it did make me think a lot of the beautiful chat. The version of this pod we did before season one when we did

Obviously, we hadn't seen Rings of Power yet at that point, so it was just like our favorite Lord of the Rings moments. And we had the pleasure of doing the pod with Brian Cogman. And he spoke so beautifully on that pod about the far green country idea and the nature of like, not only that, obviously this like...

core cherished concept in Tolkien and how it can mean different things to different people. But then like how that was so core to the nature of the adaptation and like looking at how it's present in the text, right? With Frodo and then it's Gandalf and Pip in the film. And just like that was really on my mind revisiting those scenes as well. Like beheld the white shores and beyond them a far green country under a swift sunrise. Like that's what Elrond is saying to Durin here, right? Save it.

Save it for the far green country, save it for the far side, save it for whatever. Which is such a strange thing to say to a dwarf because only the elves are supposed to go there. You know what I mean? That's the embrace. Yeah, exactly. I love it. Yeah, when we got to the far green country line in the musical, I was just like clutching you and I was like, I was thinking of Brian so much. He's really owned that like quote for me. Okay.

Next, we're going to the Harfoots. Our pal, the Harfoots. Not a lot is written in the original text about the Harfoots, so please excuse my very boring quote here, but quote, the Harfoots were browner skin, smaller and shorter, and they were beardless and bootless. Their hands and feet were neat and nimble, and they preferred highlands and hillsides. So we're here today to talk about the nomadic Harfoots.

proto-hobbits, the Harfoots, who love to hide themselves away, which is why they're not sort of on the written record, is sort of the idea of how the Harfoots made their way into this story. We meet our pals Nori and Poppy, who we absolutely love. These one, a very curious...

thirsty for adventure, um, Harfoot and her more cautious friend, uh, Poppy and all of Nori's family. Of course, Poppy has lost her family. We met, uh, the leader, the elder, Sadek Burrows, uh, who unfortunately, and we felt like sort of needlessly lost his life at the end of last season. We were really bummed, uh, to lose Lenny Henry from the, from the cast. And of course, our best friend, the legend herself, Malva, uh,

An icon, genuinely. A true icon. We are Malva's number one fans, I do believe. Okay, so here's the deal. The Harfoots...

Of course, adopt a stranger, and we will talk about... We have our own little section for the stranger, so we'll talk about him. But the Harfoots was really an opportunity for J.D. and Patrick, the showrunners of the show, who do a lot of great work working in existent lore to sort of be able to create their own lore around the Harfoots. So there's just a lot of really fun...

cultural, different cultures. And this is, this is, this goes hand in hand with that idea of fellowship that we're talking about in the last section, because this idea of what is your specific culture? What is worth fighting for? What is worth defending? We talk about that all the time with the Shire, et cetera. So like, you know, getting to know the Harfoots and all of their idiosyncrasies and all of their lore is,

They're this great book that they carry, the words that they repeat to each other. They're, you know, the culture of the road, all this sort of thing. I thought it was so inventive and so delightful. Again, there are things that were done well, things that were done not as well, and things that were exquisite. And for me personally, all of the Harwood stuff really, really worked for me in season one. So...

Mal, do you want to go? Actually, we have to have the same clip. There's just simply no way we don't. Okay, Carlos. We have the same thing. Come on now, grove, not gonna migrate to us. Might help us move faster if you sang us your mom's walking song. Go on, pups, give us a warble. I need to do some goods. The sun is fast falling beneath the trees of town. The light in the tower...

No longer my home. Past eyes of pale fire. Black sand for my bed. I trade all I've known for the unknown ahead. Hoppies. This is my favorite moment of the season.

I feel like when we did our top moments of the year, wasn't this like our number two? Was this our number two or our number one? Because like number, either number one was the last of us and this is number two or vice versa. Yeah. You commissioned art for me of this song and it is like a treasured gift that you gave to me that hangs on my wall.

Wandering Day. So if all goes according to plan and just check in with the Paul Hall of Fame to know that it doesn't always, but if all goes according to plan, it is our dearest wish to do an episode on the music of Tolkien. Hobbsanddragons.gmail.com if you have thoughts or feelings about that. It's sort of like part of why we saw the musical. Barry McCreary did such great work in season one. He's back to do more work in season two. The Amazon has released a,

you know, a package around the fact that Rufus Wainwright has written music for season two, at least a song for season two, which is really exciting. I love Rufus Wainwright. And like the music of Tolkien, which was so important to Tolkien, like there's so many songs

crammed into the corners of the text for Tolkien is something that like it's a note I have the theatrical cut of the Peter Jackson films because there's at least two that I can think of off the top of my head Aragorn and then Eowyn's funeral song like songs that are were filmed and then cut from the theatrical release and

And I, if it were me, would never cut a single song personally. Yeah, music is a huge part of any culture. And so like the, we got Disa sort of singing to the rocks and how much that was a part of the Dwarven culture. And so to get Poppy here,

And then singing about the land and the map and this like wandering song, this call to adventure and the specifics of the map. This is their like route. This is the, you know, the wheel to use the Station Eleven term that they walk on.

constantly. And so, you know, we get glimpses of the map in Rings of Power. They use the map as wisely as they should to orient us around. But to hear these hallmarks through lyric, through song, Poppy also has an iconic snail song later as well. So like, you know, it's just Poppy and her singing, wonderful. I can only hope we get more Poppy songs. I know we're going to get more songs in season two, full stop. So, yeah. We need them. This is just magic. This is pure magic.

pure magic. And the song itself, like I listened to the song all the time. This was my, this song was in my Spotify. And the year that rings of power aired, which meant I had like a mere months for it to crack the top five. And yet it did because I just can't stop listening to it. It's so beautiful. And then you return to watch it in the context of that sequence and the blending of these beautiful lyrics and what they represent and

And then the visual incorporation, like that blending of the footage and the map that you're talking about, I just thought was so well done. Like,

lord a map a lord of the rings map this is literally some of the first things like i can remember capturing my imagination when i was a kid and like my dad still talks about how like the additions that he had when he was a kid it's like if the you know the map and the specific rendering of the map and how that's like the thing he thinks of and associates in his mind so the map is just like a central thing for rings fans and like

to follow the little dots as they make their progress and then to cut back into the footage, like the moment in the gray marshes, for example, where, you know, you see them passing through and then you go in and you feel the, the plight, like the trials of their migration. And then we kind of account for like the context. This is the fifth episode. This is partings, the context of where they are, like,

They're isolated after a number of things like Largo's injury, the question of if they're going to be able to keep up, if they're going to get left behind, which is this kind of like

disturbing undercurrent of the Harfoot migration and the Harfoot culture. And then you have inside of that, that question of like, will we be left behind or can we keep up? Then you have the found family and the sense of belonging in their little cluster. You have Poppy not just singing this beautiful song, but like we hear, we heard it. It's her mom's song. And so like she has this loss and this grief and she is

Then porting that into hope for other people and like a sense of possibility for other people. And that's a gift that she can give them and that they can give her to say, like, share that with us. Bring your mom on this journey with us. It's just so lovely. And like one of the little moments it's I love is when they're they're all huddled.

And they're pouring the tea and the, like the look on the stranger's face. They just hand him the cup of tea and he's like, maybe it'll be okay. Right. And he doesn't yet know he hasn't had like the veil lifted. Right. It's just this little anchor to life. Right. And to like acceptance and like not feeling so totally confused and lost in a number of different ways. And like the moment where then Nori,

is looking out at the end of the song and like,

The stranger is perched and he's looking up and he's watching the stars and she's watching him. And you just feel like the way that the links build and the way that you go not to spoil something else that's definitely going to come up later, but the way that you can go from a journey to an adventure. And then the lyrics, like, I trade all I've known for the unknown ahead. It's my favorite line of the season. Again, I said that I would say that about more than one line and I promise to do it again. But it's just...

It's perfect. It's just so entwined to that, like call to adventure and embracing the unknown. And yeah,

Then you have the sadness of that, because like in the finale, when Poppy goes over to Nori and says, like, why does everyone I love the most always have to go away? And Nori says, because I think if we didn't, then we'd never learn anything new. And it's like, I don't know. I really like the honesty of that. Like, it's not like answering the call is always easy. Right. It's hard. And that's part of what makes it meaningful. So I just absolutely love this.

And the reward of fellowship, because this idea of embracing the stranger and bringing the stranger with them is so anathema to their culture. Again, similar to what we were talking about with the elves and the dwarves, this sort of isolationist versus opening your borders to other people. And so the stranger has this

as this thing that is like ostracize them, hold them back, all this sort of stuff like that. And then he like literally lifts their load for them, literally carries the load because he's bigger and stronger and he can and makes their passage easier. Share the load. Exactly. I will carry the load.

We'll carry you is what he does. And so that reward of, you know, taking a risk on, you know, kindness and comfort, the offering of a tea is such like comfort, which is something we so associate with hobbits in general. So those are the hard foots. Let us go now. Great stuff. Let us go now.

To the leafy, the beautiful yellow leafy kingdom of Lindon. This is where the elves, the elf royalty make their home. Gil-galad is the king here. This is the quote. In Lindon, north of the loon, dwells Gil-galad, the last heir of the kings of Noldor in exile. Ben Walker plays Gil-galad, the king there. We see a few interactions there. We've got

This is where Galadriel and Elrond sort of first encounter each other in episode one. We get Dorne and Elrond go there sort of on a diplomatic mission. And we get a lot of several proclamations from Gil-Galad. But the most important thing is that to know that there's a blight. The leaves of the Great Tree and Linden are rotting. And it is an overall, you know, signal that...

magic is leaving this world and perhaps it is time for the elves, uh, you know, to leave this world as well. One of the quotes, uh, that is not my moment that I'm picking here, but it is something that Elrond says to Doran in that Namarie scene, right? He says, uh, Gil-galad must be informed and soon he will no longer be a king for there will no longer be a Linden. So there's like a ticking clock on the kingdom of Linden, on the reign of Gil-galad, um,

All of that. Mallory, do you want to go first with your, your Linden moment? Sure. She has passed beyond my sight. Galadriel was so certain her search should continue. We foresaw that if it had, she might have inadvertently kept alive the very evil she sought to defeat. Or the same wind that seeks to blow out a fire may also cause its spread. Um, is this your pick? No. Okay.

I want to say that I feel like you really fulfilled the prompt here because you picked a Gilgal. But not because I did it. That's fine. I just I actually really love that line. Oh, yeah. There was my one panic swap late did come from like, oh, God, have I fulfilled the prompt or not? But this was one where I think this would have been the pick for for me for Lyndon, no matter what, because this was.

So this is in the first episode of the two-part premiere, A Shadow of the Past. And as you can tell from the quote, this is after they have briefly, temporarily convinced Galadriel to put up her sword. And...

There are a lot of different things I love about this. That last line for the same wind that seeks to blow out a fire may also cause it spread. We've returned to that a lot over the course of the season and like it remained very top of mind. Revisiting this with the context of the full season in mind.

you know, Elrond's guilt is so palpable in this moment already. And that's one of the things I love about it. Gil-Galad's secrecy, like that ends up being so key over the course of the season. It feels like we learn a lot about the characters and their dynamics and the trade-offs they're willing to make in addition to kind of the thematic substance of the idea. So that's,

That's part of why I really like this moment, like the Galadriel agenda, the Mithril agenda, which he will not tell Elrond about, right? Elrond has to discover that he has made an oath. He has made an oath that he then has to violate, which perhaps will come up in your moment. I don't know. I don't know what you're going to pick. It would be really funny if I was just like, we're just going to talk about Elrond and Doran again. Sorry. I like that. In a different location this time.

Elrond makes a lot of appearances on my list. Me too. As does Galadriel. Me too. Galadriel here she is many times. One of the things that I like about Gil-Galad is that he will say these wise things, right? Like, he'll say...

uh in the fifth episode hope is never mere elrond even when it is meager when all other senses sleep the eye of hope is first to awaken last to shut but he then has to be reminded of that by elrond later when elrond's like did you forget your own counsel so even though he doesn't have a lot of time like he doesn't have a huge trt in the first season his scenes were always kind of interesting to me and often because of that hidden purpose or whatever was like lurking beneath um

The end of this conversation and from the scene I picked,

That's when Elrond says it is hard to see what is right when friendship and duty are mingled. And Gil replies, such is the burden of those who lead and those who would seek to. And he sends him off to Celebrimbor. So he's trying to like turn basically Elrond quoting George R.R. Martin into one of our favorite ideas from another fictional universe into friendship.

Right. Go, go on the focus on the thing I need you to focus on. Signs and portents, the portents and signs self-fulfilling prophecy. This is the other thing I love about this and ultimately like why I picked it for the elves. The elves think that they are fending the elves who are in the know, at least think that they are fending off this fate by sending Galadriel to Valinor. But she quite literally jumps ship and

And that leads her to Halbrand. That leads her to that raft. And then for Galadriel, the idea... Halbrand, who is also Sauron. Who is hot Sauron who fucks. Who will be Annatar. Okay, great. Call it a gift. For Galadriel, the idea that she is so...

to bringing about the very thing that she is seeking to stop is just so dramatically compelling and delicious and the kind of thing that makes this, I mean, we were going to be excited for this show no matter what, but when you're always like, a prequel, expanding the world, why? Like,

Like, what are you gaining from it? What are we learning about the characters that we didn't know? What are we learning about the world that we didn't know? And that is one of the, it's certainly not the only one, but one of the things at the top of the list for me. Like, this prequel gave them the space to play in that sandbox and to examine that question. Like, how,

how did the lateral become the character we find in the trilogy and what mistakes or choices, what laments or regrets lead her there. And then I just think like the writing of that final line is like poetry. It's just very emblematic to me of the lyrical prose that the show was able to nail. So good. Uh, so I, I just, I love that moment. Yeah. Uh, it's a great pick. Um,

Um, I, and, and so many things that you've said inspired things. I mean, I'm so excited to talk about this world again. Um, same. I can't wait. The fact that the Galadriel that we meet in lower, the rings, the lady of the woods, um, has become a Gilgalad figure, right? Like here, she is the sort of spitfire warriors. Like we must go out. We must defeat the evil. We must go out. We must avenge. We must do this. We must do that. Um, and Gilgalad is sort of in his leafy kingdom, um,

trying to preserve the peace and beauty of the kingdom around him. And when we meet Galadriel in Lord of the Rings in Lothlorien, she is one of the oldest, wisest, most powerful people, but she's not on the road with the Fellowship.

Like she's not off to battle against Sauron. There is something that has turned her into a person who is intent on preserving her corner of the map, protecting Lothlorien and protecting her people there. And it's so curious to go on this journey with her from this characterization in season one to who she becomes. And I think they're doing such a good job of laying that road. You know, the chief,

turning point being this massive mistake we see her make in season one. My moment is... You think that'll come up today? Is that something we're going to talk about today, you think? Could be. To go back to sort of things that are done well, things that are not as well, things that are done exquisitely, I think Lyndon, to your point, short TRT in the season and Gil-Galad as sort of this like by nature, mysterious or covert kind of character is

Made him feel a bit inaccessible to me. And I think that is a challenge for season two is to like,

Take me a little closer to Gil-Galad and who he is and what he really thinks rather than sort of the mysterious politicking that we see. I love politicking. But I like Ben Walker as an actor, and so I really want to get better access to this character in season two. So I did not pick a Gil-Galad moment. But I picked... Did you pick Durin demanding the table? From episode one...

Elrond and Galadriel. Carlos Lee plays. Oh, oh, by the way, I cheated. I slammed together two parts of one scene. You'll hear the edit. It's so seamless. Ever so seamless. Go ahead, Carlos, please. It is over. The evil is gone. Then why is it not gone from in here? After all you have endured, it is only natural to feel conflicted. Conflicted? I am grateful you have not known evil as I have, but you have not seen what I've seen. I have seen my share. You have not seen

What I have seen. Evil does not sleep, Elrond. It waits. And in the moment of our complacency, it blinds us. You have fought long enough, Galadriel. Put up your sword. Without it, what am I to be? What you have always been, my friend. So a couple things that feel really important to me here. Also, music is just beautiful, but also made it really hard for me to make a seamless edit. The...

Put Up Your Sword, a phrase you already mentioned, is one that just really stuck out to me when we watched this the first time. I thought it was so beautiful, and I was like, did they take this from Tolkien? I could only find it in the Bible. It's not a phrase that is usually used and is very beautiful. But the core part of that second part that I slammed in there is this idea, it's...

You mentioned lifting from Thrones. This is lifted from Star Trek. This is a very clear Spock and Kirk, I am and always have been your friend. This is a repeated Spock line to Kirk. And so the idea of the friendship of Elrond and Galadriel, which to your point earlier, Elrond is stealing this guild because he feels he's leveraged a bit his friendship with her in order to get her to do what

Gil-galad wanted her to do, which she ultimately doesn't do. But it is genuine friendship there. There is genuine love between these two people. And it's hard for us to understand the nature of a relationship that can last millennia. You know what I mean? Like these are ancient creatures. But, and still, and yet, Elrond is younger than

Elrond Half-Elven is younger than the people around him. And so her point of like, you have not seen what I have seen. I have seen some shit and you haven't. And that is a question for, you know, Elrond in season one, hanging out with his buddy Doran in Khazad-Dum, hanging out with Kel Brimbor in Eregion, playing detective at the end of the season. But has he seen... He wasn't in the Southlands. Like, he hasn't seen...

the horrors yet. And is that something he's going to see in season two? Is the Elrond that we meet in Rivendell, another elf sort of ensconced and tucked away in his own kingdom, is us seeing him see those horrors for himself an important way for us to understand how he comes to be that character who we meet in Lord of the Rings. And then the other point is Galadriel...

talking about the darkness inside of her. If Sauron and Morgoth have been defeated and eradicated, why is there all this darkness and hatred and anger and vengeance roiling inside of me? There must be an external explanation of

And I have to snuff that out so I can snuff it out of me. And the darkness inside of Galadriel is also a repeating touching the darkness sort of idea throughout the season. But I just love that. Her saying, like, why is it still in me if it's gone? Why is it still here nestled close to my heart? And the idea that she's fighting so hard to eradicate this external threat when there is this internal threat sort of burbling away inside of her is such a potent part of season one. So...

That's why I picked that. Yeah. Great one. I was hoping you were going to pick that, especially when you sent me the picture of Enron's carving. Oh, my God. Yeah. Why else would I be hanging out in that scene were it not to pick that moment? Okay. I said it was hard. Like, Cousa Doom was hardest for me to, like, choose between two. Where we're going next, which is Numenor.

um, the island, the island kingdom Numenor was hard for a different reason. Yeah. Um, there are a lot of characters banging around in the Numenorean, uh, plot line, right? There's Muriel, our leader, there's Elendil and Isildur, um, you know, father and son, uh,

there's Beric, the horse. Our favorite horse. Yeah. There's Farazan who is, who is sort of got his eye on Muriel's, uh, throne. Uh, there's notions of prophecy, of doom, of men versus elves, of, you know, a sealed or as like, along with Galadriel and Elrond, like this character that carries so much weight of expectation for us. Uh,

And so it was hard for me to know which sort of avenue to go down. So do you want me to go first this time? Shall I? Sure. I genuinely clipped something else and then I changed my mind last minute because I just went with the, I went, I picked the thing that I actually think I really enjoyed the most out of Numenor. And if the elf were here now, what would she see? Men of Numenor?

or a gaggle of mewling children. We are sons and daughters of the Edain, of Elros Tarminiatur, whose host conquered Morgoth himself. But now one elf, a castaway, could threaten us? Look down, each of you, at the gill crests you bear, a heritage of mighty hands, of men who laid the sea wall, who raised Armenelos, triumph of our civilization. But now one elf...

could threaten us. That's Farazan calming down the crowds of angry men in Numenor who are pissed that Galadriel's there and worried about more elves sort of flocking to their shores. The reason I picked this is I just, I actually find Farazan to be such a joy to listen to. Tristan Gravel is a Welsh actor and you can tell because he's like, just listening to his voice is amazing.

a joy his like round vowels and the way he pronounces these like tolkienian words miniatur like all this sort of stuff like that um and then it also felt like jd and patrick just like showing off about the lore that they knew they're like let's just hit you with some tolkien lore we're gonna hit you with some names some place names some things that we did and all this sort of stuff and it's gonna be just marinate it we know what we're talking about we're scholars and fans

We know what we're talking about. We invented this stuff for the Harfoots. Here's some stuff that is just sort of like straight text lore. And we're just going to lay it out for you here. This is Farazan soothing the crowd. He ends it with like buying a round of drinks for everyone who's like rabble rousing in the town square. I know. Pricey, pricey tab. Yeah. And it's one of those things where like,

Sometimes if a show or a book is not as successful, it will tell you... We get Farazan's son in and around the scene saying like,

They love him. He can woo anyone. He could talk the Heinlein off donkey. Like he's so good at what he does. Blah, blah. And you're like, okay, telling us is one thing showing us. And it's convincing the way that he just sort of calms and wraps this crowd around his little finger using xenophobia is a, is a tremendous example of, of,

the state of affairs in Numenor. And so I could have picked Elendil and Isildur. I could have picked Miriel and I almost did pick Miriel, but I picked Farazan. I just love this performance. Numenor is another place that I feel like I hope to see a little bit of improvement in season two. It felt just like a little all over the place with what they were trying to accomplish there. But this core concept of the elf faithful versus the

The men's rights activists, the people who are like, that's a non-gendered man, mankind. That's the core conflict of Numenor that we need to keep at the forefront. This idea that like Numenor was gifted to these, this line of men coming down from Elros as like, you know, a reward for,

But the one thing that they must not do is try to approach immortality or the realms of elves and all this sort of stuff like that, because the elves are gifted immortality. The men are not, but it's called a gift for men, not a curse, but a gift of this idea of like, isn't it a gift that your time in this world is fleeting? Right.

and that things end and elves are sort of cursed and burdened with immortality. That's the idea. But the men don't always see it that way. And they're like, why do they get this? Why do they get the long lies? Blah, blah. And so for Farazan to emphasize the work, the many hands, the like, look at your guild crest. We are hard workers. We are men of, again, in a non-gendered sort of way, like men of Middle Earth, um,

I just, I love this speech. I love this moment. And I love the way he turns the crowd. So yeah, Farazan. Great pick. I'm going on with the other side. I'm going with the faithful. You once asked me why I pulled Galadriel from the sea. I claimed to have had little choice, but the truth is I could have left her there. Could have refused to follow her to middle earth or stop my son from doing so. Yet at every turn I made the choices I did because... Why, Melendia?

Because Elendil does not merely mean one who lost the stars. I just never imagined it would lead you. My father once told me that the way of the faithful is committing to pay the price, even if the cost cannot be known, and trusting that in the end it will be worth it. Sometimes, cost is... It is. We have little choice then but to keep serving. And I, for one, will see to it that we make the end worth the price. Come what may. Come what may.

First of all, I knew I could count on you to pick a clip with your fave Elendil. Hot Daddy Elendil? You know I had to. Secondly, did you pick it because they're essentially like nuzzling each other? Yes, I wrote in my notes, that little nuzzle. That's literally my first bullet point. That little nuzzle. All right. Correct. You can tell me more. It brings me comfort to know that you know me so well. I do.

Man, yeah, it's a very sweet little moment below deck between Marielle and Elendil. It's lovely, lovely little scene. The original Nuzler, Elendil. Exactly, look out, fantasy. There's another Nuzler. Oh man, if anyone's like, what the fuck are you talking about? Check out the 99 movie draft on BigPic. You've got three hours to spare, yeah.

Indeed. Indeed. Okay. So I love this conversation. I love this scene. I love this idea. You already beautifully set up the context of these different factions inside of Numenor. So that's part of what's interesting to me about it. Overall, Numenor's deployment in season one as like a lens through which we got to examine Numenor.

vision, questions of fate was one of the things that I really enjoyed about the time we got there. Like, so this, that, that clip that we just heard is when they're, they're sailing back to Numenor after the battle in the Southlands and,

And that is one of my many picks from the finale. Alloyed makes a number of appearances today. But if we go back to the midway point of the season, the fourth episode, when Mariel is... Which is what my quote is from episode four. Yeah. Yeah. Describing the petals of the white tree falling, it is no idle thing. And if you skip ahead a little bit in that passage...

There is a fateful hour in the destinies of men, an hour of judgment in which each of us, everyone must decide who we shall be. So like this was one of my favorite things more broadly to talk about with you across season one choice of destiny. We love talking about this in general and fantasy stories. If there's a prophecy, a question of free will, this is something we're always interested in. And these characters gave us a lot of opportunities to really like change

chew on what perspective the story brings, like just some of the specific language choice, and then you can kind of swing across it in the span of one conversation. But like,

must decide who we shall be or I could have. And like inside of these conversations about putting your life and putting your stock and your belief in some larger idea, something that has been passed down to you, something that you have inherited and decided to opt into and making space inside of that for your own decisions. Like it's just always so interesting. And

you know, like putting your faith in something bigger than yourself is not always an easy thing and it doesn't always work out. Right. And so you have like moments across the season, like Mariel's eyes and the, the warning that her father issued or the tested faith, right? Like Elendil in this moment thinks that he has lost his son, thinks that Isildur is dead. And like we as viewers, of course know that that is not true, but it doesn't matter that we know that because for him, it is a moment of tested faith.

And

We had elsewhere in the season, we had Mariel's vision of the Great Wave. Incredible sequence. Or in the finale, when Tar Palantir says to Aeorian, you must go up, but don't do as I did. Sending her to the perch, his perch, but saying, don't make the mistakes I made. I looked for too long, and now I cannot separate what is from what was. What was from what will be. So you have faith as comfort, but then you also have

faith as justification. You have faith as invitation. Maybe to do a great deed, but maybe to make a mistake. It's just so fascinating to me. It's one of the things in the world that I always love to confront and think about. And obviously it's like a central thing in the text. And we've talked about many of the many, many myriad passages that explore this idea that we love and we will undoubtedly have opportunities to do so at length across the course of season two. But, you know, the...

I think one of my favorites that I found myself like thinking about a lot in season one and was on my mind again here was like from Fellowship, the book, why didn't you make me throw it away or destroy it?

let you make you said the wizard haven't you been listening to all that I have said and how those things can all be entwined your role in this larger tale but the need the necessity to maintain belief that your choices matter this is just one of the best parts of the story yeah I love that you highlighted that because the part that I almost picked was actually between Galadriel and Mediel from episode 4 when they're at the Palantir and they're talking about the great wave and like

um, Galadriel's like, like come with me now to fight evil. This is another sort of Xena, like sort of, uh, you know, isolationist versus joining in fellowship, common cause to take up arms against evil sort of thing. Uh, Galadriel convincing the Numenoreans to go fight with her, um, on the mainland. But, um,

having Galadriel look into the Palantir to think about the Great Wave and Galadriel being like, we will avoid this. And she's like, you're here. You being here, you've already started it. The vision begins with your arrival. So like, what choice? It's done. You know? And so that idea of choice versus... Welcome to Nadiada. This season on Nadiada Island.

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The destiny is so present there. Let us go now to not a place because they did not have a place until the end of the season, but a people.

the orcs, the Uruk and Adar, their leader, quote, the shadow that bred them can only mock. It cannot make no, not real new things of its own. I don't think it gave life to the orcs. It only ruined them and twisted them. And if they are to live at all, they have to live like other living creatures. So this is like a big prompt in season one, this idea of taking the orcs, the, the like,

hordes of threatening menacing uh inhuman creatures in lord of the rings and give them humanity for lack of a better word give them uh desires give them you know some a culture a dignity all this sort of stuff like that as manifested by their leader adar who was played in season one by joseph mollon will be played in season two by a different actor sam haseldine um

i feel like probably we have the same uh moment here but it seems likely but maybe not my children have no master they are not children they are slaves but each one has a name the heart created by the creations of the one master of the secret fire the same as you is worthy of the breath of life and just as worthy of a home

Honestly, just a... That I think is yours. Fucking sick dunk. That was mine. Mine is a little different, but almost... Is it from the same scene? Yeah, same scene. Your kind was a mistake made in mockery. And even if it takes me all of this age, I vow to eradicate every last one of you. You shall be kept alive so that one day, before I drive my dagger into your poisoned heart, I will whisper in your piqued ear...

That all your offspring are dead and the scourge of your kind ends with you. It would seem I'm not the only elf alive. I've been transformed by darkness. Perhaps your search for more God's successor should have ended in your own mirror. Yeah, so like back to back, I think, moments in the same scene of Galadriel interrogating a chained Adar.

as he does a couple of things. I'll let you talk about your section. I'll just say, I'll just say briefly from my, I mean, I think just them all is so good. I'm excited to see what Sam Hazzeldine does, uh, with his character in season two, but I think just them all is so good. And this sequence specifically, um,

We made sort of the whispering like a little bit for us, but there's this part sort of directly after when basically Halberd walks in and stops Galadriel from killing Adar. And she's talking to

hal brand orcs and you just hear adar go like corrector like quietly in the background it's so funny um but yeah he's basically what my little section here is he's basically doing a like um if you prick us do we not bleed uh you know merchant of venice a moment of like bid for like don't we deserve a home uh sure we're gonna explode a volcano to get it but don't we deserve it like we are we are

created by the same hands that created you we are deserving of dignity of respect of our of of our own culture um and galadriel like sounds real like in this oh yeah scene real like when she says your pike in ear i just wrote down i was like it just sounds racial to me um i just uh yeah i i really like this because what do you want to say

Yeah, so this is from episode six. This is following the battle, but before the true quest and the true victory unfolds. And one of the things I really like about this sequence is like, this is the...

this is the moment of truth that Adar is not serving Sauron, right? That he is... So this was like, there's just a lot going on in this stretch and we get like, you know, great lines here like, he sought to craft a power

not of the flesh but over flesh the power of the unseen world which is the language that Galadriel will then later recognize when she hears it in Eregion so this is crucial in a number of respects here but mostly I love this for what we what we see from and in Galadriel and then what Adar sees in her and says to her and like when you were talking earlier about

what we bring with us to this prequel, to this show from later in the timeline. And one of the things then that is interesting is like, what are we learning about the character in terms of how they see the world? But I think, and this has been true, this is true for a lot of the characters in the show, but with probably Galadriel most of all,

How other characters see her and how she thinks they see her, because then that is just then, of course, incorporated into how she sees herself or what she's fighting against or think she needs to, like, justify or challenge is just consistently fascinating. The last line of from from the clip I selected is.

It would seem I'm not the only elf who has been transformed by darkness. Perhaps your search for Morgoth's successor should have ended in your own mirror. First of all, anytime we get a mirror mention with Galadriel, we're going to remark upon it. Wonderful. Great stuff. This is like from the premiere, from the opening scene.

stretch of the show this has been a mission statement right you you alluded to this line earlier you mentioned this line earlier when finrod and we kind of get the full line later in that premiere we don't hear him what what exactly he whispers to her at first but sometimes we cannot know until we have touched the darkness and that's so much a part of this stretch of gladriel's story is her touching the darkness and what that will mean but by touching the darkness

We mean, hot star on who fucks. But that's not necessarily the same, right? As your enemy, your foe saying to you,

Should the search have ended in your own mirror? Are you the bad guy's successor? Like, is the darkness... Has it... Have we gone from touching it to it consuming you in full? Or making a home inside of you, you know? Yes, yes. Carvin had a little nook and curling up and then taking over. Like, I was thinking of the scene from, I believe, episode five, when...

is like finally revealing and explaining some of her past to Hellbrand and is talking about the mutiny, the mutiny of her company and says each of them acted as they did because I believe they could no longer distinguish me from the evil I was fighting. Like to have to confront the fact that the people who are supposed to stand by you and work with you think that about you and then for her to continue on from there and do these things, like,

it gets back to that same wind idea. And it's just one of the things that I loved so much about her season one story. Um,

And then, you know, obviously we have to think about what follows this scene, which is the eruption of Mount Doom, the fracturing of the Numenoreans and the Southlanders. When Galadriel, like, reflects to Theo in the woods in a scene, a stretch that I was not expecting to, like, be quite as riveted by as I was because, you know, the Theo stuff was not my favorite part of season one with one notable exception that will be coming up in my next pick. In mere moments. Yeah.

mere moments. But I loved because that is episode seven, Galadriel and Theo in the woods. So it's right after this conversation with, with Otter right after and right after the,

We're watching Mordor come into existence and the smoke and the flame and the shadow blanket the sky. And the visual of them just covered in the red dust. And the eyelashes coated just every part of them covered in that shadow. It's gorgeous. No escape. And...

Theo is carrying his guilt, right? And says, I gave power to the enemy. So that makes me responsible. And Galadriel says to him, some say that is the way of things, but I believe the wise also look upon what is in our hearts. And this was not in yours. Do not take the burden of this day upon your shoulders, Theo. You may find it difficult to put down again. And maybe that's something that she would have said to him later.

without that conversation with otter but i'm not sure because like that challenge that he issues to her the thing he sees inside of her and that she has to confront has to be on her mind then when she is sharing these words of counsel and words of caution to theo that are based completely on her own experience and you know i like that um

uh arandir and bronwyn did not make my moments list at any point today spoiler but i was thinking of a scene i really did like the arandir watch warden scene in the first episode yes when the watch warden says to him but mark this around here for 79 years you have kept watch over the men and women of tiharad not because of what their ancestors once did but because of who they still are and that's like

a hideous moment in a lot of ways, right? That they are holding in judgment an entire group of people who did not make those mistakes that their ancestors did. But then this question in the show, well, and then we see like half of them go, right? But then what will Orandir say to Theo? But half of you stayed. And just that question more broadly, like I liked that scene because it doesn't just apply to the man in the Southlands. It applies to all of the characters. Like if you touch the darkness, right?

does it claim you? If it claims you, can you break free of it? Do you have to be defined by like what your fellows have done or what mission you embrace or anything else forever? That will be a question that Sauron himself will ask. So it just was a moment that I really liked in general, but also one that connected to a lot of the character sets who are not necessarily directly a part of that conversation.

That brings us to the Southlands or AKA before door, AKA no more door, AKA now more door, a quote in the land of more door where the shadows lie, uh, starts as the verdant hills of the Southland turns into the ashy wastelands of more door before it's all said and done. Uh, the elf, the, the, the Sylvan elf, uh, Ron dear, his forbidden romance with the apothecary, uh, Bronwyn, her, uh, uh,

son, Theo. You know, all of that is in the mix in the Southlands. This again was a section that felt a little rocky to me in season one. I had no doubt that we would have the exact same moment for the Southlands. It has become a rallying cry for House of R. So can we hear from our guy, Waldrig? Do you know what it is? It is no sword.

The best. Put it on the merch. The best.

of Imlad, of Yod of Sauron. Oh, man. I don't have a ton to say here. This is an incredible moment. We love it. It just has to be here. It has to be here. I do want to say the language is so... I'm sure we talked about this at the time, but it is so Return of the King Aragorn coded. You know...

there's so much entangled between Hal brand and Sarah, AKA Sauron and Aragorn. He is so Aragorn courted throughout, you know, and this idea that, that, you know, if folks were not, we're all duped by the story, then they thought he was, you know, a long lost King of the Southlands who was promised to return and all of that. Um,

but I kind of love this idea, this like twisted idea that the Southlanders who are, you know, faithful to the idea of Sauron eagerly awaited the return of their own King, um, AKA Sauron, AKA Halbrand. So, um, yeah. Anything else you want to say about Waldrick? I mean, it's just a great piece of television here and, you know, in the running for, uh,

House of our bit prime. Like, this is really, this is a crucial one here in the canon of our podcast. It had to be here. You know, in terms of the actual substance of the story, this idea of just, like, bound by blood in terms of the way, like, the key is activated and inserted and twisted and sparks these gushing geysers. Let's just continue with the phrasing warning.

They transform the Southlands and activate Mount Doom and then blanket the land in shadow to make it safe for Adar's children to roam. I love the idea that Adar is opposed to Sauron, but then will usher in and birth the place where Sauron will forge, spoiler, the One Ring. This is great stuff. And thinking of overall that like,

you know, that plot and what unfolds and how and why is a, was a really interesting thing to kind of watch unfold over the course of season one. And for Waldrick, this idea that like, he doesn't even know that,

what he's really after or why or what he's doing or why. Like, he thinks Adar is Sauron. He doesn't even know who he's devoting himself to. And, you know, he is seeking to serve and thereby destroy without really understanding...

the particulars of why or with whom, which is obviously quite an indictment of our guy, Waldrick. But we do thank him for giving us the gift of Ittisei Pauier and Avi Ordov and Ladd. What would we do without him? Rewatching this

I'm like, I really don't want to be covering this show in an election year. There's just a lot that I don't even really want to get into. But it's all just there. You can see it. It's just right there. Okay. Let's go. Speaking of places where rings are forged, let's go now to a Reggian and our guy, Kella Brimbor. Star of the season two trailers, Kella Brimbor. Mallory and I have really... I just can't wait. Really latched on.

to Charles Edwards as Caleb Brimbor. I'm excited for this. Caleb Brimbor was, with the exception, I think, of the scene that I pulled out here, and I'm sure you probably have the same one, but like, Caleb Brimbor, sort of similar to Gil-Galad, was not an easy character for me to access in season one.

But here's a couple things that are going on. Number one, Charles Edwards is a wonderful performer. And so I'm excited to see what he does. And hopefully the fact that he's had all this time to marinate on who Caleb Brimbor is and the nature of him. We are really drilling down on him in these season two trailers. We were like, this is our guy. Caleb Brimbor is going through it. Quote...

To set this up, in Eregion long ago, many elven rings were made, magic rings as you call them, and they were, of course, of various kinds, some more potent and some less. I'm going to start with my clip. I'm sure it's all going to be fine. It's going to be fine. I'm going to start with my clip and see if it matches with yours, Mallory. Feanor's work nearly turned the heart of the great foe himself. What has mine ever accomplished? It has turned my heart, my lord, the heart of many an elf.

but I aspire to do far more than that. An age ago, our kind brought war to these shores. I want to fill them with beauty. Mine is the line, like the first part of yours is the last part of mine. Mine is just the part right before that. Let's hear your part. Feanor's hammer, the tool that brought the simbrials, the jewels that contain the very light of Valinor. Strange, isn't it? How one object could be responsible for creating so much beauty and so much pain.

True creation requires sacrifice. They say that Morgoth found the Silmarils so beautiful that after he'd stolen them, for weeks he could do nothing but stare into their depths. It was only after one of his tears fell upon the jewels and he was faced with the evil of his own reflection that the reverie was finally broken. From that moment, he looked upon their light no more.

Every time we sit down to pod, we look at each other and we say, true creation requires sacrifice. That line comes back up again, of course, at the end when Celebrimbor asks Eladriel to give up her precious dagger to make the alloy, to make the three rings for Elven Kings. So this is a wonderful sequence and so crucial to setting up who Celebrimbor is, you know, in terms of his...

wants and desires this ambition um and like you he does such a good job and the writing does such a good job of putting just like it you know it's a beautiful desire to create something of beauty to create something it could turn the heart of evil like all this sort of stuff and um

And we talked a lot in season one about Tolkien and the idea of creation, this idea of the act of creation is a divine act and all of this sort of stuff. So I think all of it's beautiful. And then it's just laced with this sort of like Bilbo and Rivendell-esque, you know, just a little.

than you want. A little bit like grasping at something in a way that has us a little worried for Celebrimbor. So, yeah, we're mentioning the Silmarils are here, the gang's all here. Whom amongst us hasn't wept over the beauty of some jewels and then caught our own reflection and gone, oh God, oh no. So, yeah, yeah.

Calibur more. Again, something that I'm really excited to... A character I'm really excited to dig into a bit more in season two. Yeah. Same. So this was my late stage swap right on the brink of recording because...

I, this was the one originally where I did not honor the spirit of the prompt. And I just picked a sequence that took place in Eregion so that I could pick more than one moment involving a couple of characters who will come up later across different categories. And then when the outline came through and I saw the killer from first name specifically, I was like, I'm not going to be able to get away with it. But then from there, it was very easy to land on this scene and this moment. Um,

This is from episode two, Adrift. And yeah, this is another example of season one's deft touch with striking those ominous notes that leave us really on edge and also kind of like rapt.

by the description of something that like you know we are not great elven smiths for forging the great rings but like there is if you anything in your life right if you're like creating anything there's going to be something about this that speaks to you and so um and then that makes you kind of afraid when you feel yourself like leaning in right and so i loved that about it and uh i

definitely returning to this. I already felt that way about him returning to this scene after watching the season two trailers and that you mentioned like starring a a shattered killer

Who is a mess. Really seems to be working through it. I am more troubled than ever, but I just, I love the ideas I play in this conversation. There's this admiration and aspiration, but there are those yearning tendrils too. And the question of where those yearning tendrils lead you, do they lead you to greatness? Do they lead you to darkness? Like what is the tipping point between ambition and mayhem? That's an interesting thing to think about. Two more to go.

and you know what i picked for the next two there's just simply no doubt in my mind i don't know actually you know we definitely have the same next one i'm not sure the same last one next well i have two there because i had to move one there so the last one i have two okay i see what you did okay um so penultimately we're here to talk with a stranger aka if you want to call him gandalf you can but i'm still unsure that that is who he is follow your nose

Quote, that is the business of wizards. Wizards are always troubled about the future. There is zero doubt in my mind that Mallory and I picked the same moment. Carlos, will you play it, please? Every time our paths are laid before us by powers greater than our own. In those moments, it's our task to make our feet go where our hearts wish not to tread. No matter the perils awaiting us on the way. It must always be like an adventure. Alone, it's just a journey. No adventures. No adventures.

He must be shared. Oh my God. Another foundational. That's my favorite. It's my favorite moment of the season. It's my favorite line of the season. Good old Ruben superlative. What does it mean at the end of the day? Listen, we love this moment. We've talked about it in the year, into the intervening years since it aired. The stranger as a character was part of the whole like,

Sauron, Red Herring, Rigamarole of season one. Who is Sauron here? Is it hot Halbrand? Is it Adar? Is it Stranger? Is it someone we haven't seen yet? Et cetera, et cetera. But it is revealed at the end of the season, of course, that Halbrand...

Halbron is Sauron. That's going to come up in a second. And also that the stranger is a wizard. He claims that title and is a wizard. He's very Gandalf-coded for sure. We do not know for certain. And Amazon is certainly eager to not call him Gandalf. And I do not know if that's for legal reasons or why, or if he is one of the blue wizards. We'll talk about that a bit more as we go into season two lore, etc. But this is just...

a core, core, iconic Apple Wars sequencing and concept of, you know, speaking of, you know, the way that you likened Kelly Brimmore's creation of beautiful jewels and rings and hammers and all of that to making a podcast, the adventure journey idea of making a podcast, or at the very least, if you're not a podcaster, the

talking about story, going on the adventure of a story. Like this is something that Mallory and I are so fortunate to get to do is like, I love watching these shows or reading these books that we discuss, but I love them even more that I get to do it with you and with all of our listeners. That is sort of the heart of it, the trick of it, you know? And it's like the stories we share are,

that turned this all into an adventure. And we talked about this a bit on our hype episode that we did last week or that aired last week, which talking about Rings of Power and how it is not a perfect show by any means, but it is a show that I can't think of another I've had as much delight in discussing with you and in sharing with our listeners. And that fellowship was,

And that adventuring through story is just so key and core to everything that I've made my like central to my life. So, yeah. Over to you, Mel. I just I just couldn't have loved this scene in this moment more and getting to share it with you and talk about it with you. And yeah, it feels like it's like this is this is sacred text for us and the pod. It really is. And.

This is, again, another moment in the finale. The finale is loaded. Loaded finale. Fun to rewatch the finale. The strangers...

Not completely, but semi-lifted veil, you know, following the encounter with the three mystics in the woods and starting to get this clearer sense of self, but also knowing, believing that he needs to set off for Rune to understand further. That's the way he says it. I must go to Rune. Rune! Rune!

That, like, the Istar reveal, the wizard reveal, like, all of it. And then, of course, most crucially of all, the invitation to share the road, to share an adventure, to share a life. Share the road. Share the road. And...

You know, the stranger is the one who says it, but obviously it's like, we have to think about Nori and this invitation that she is receiving and what that means and why Nori was such a part, one of the many reasons why Nori was such a effective character who gripped us so, so, so fully in season one. Like,

This is this moment that Nori's entire season was building toward. You know, we think back to the premiere and Nori speaking to Marigold and like this lament that Nori feels like there's this beauty to the Harfoot life and community. But for Nori, there's this question of what else is out there? Like, what else is not on offer to her? What does she not have access to? Right. Like, if we didn't do everything we weren't supposed to do, we'd hardly do anything at all. And haven't you ever wondered what else is out there?

Out there. Like, haven't you ever wondered what else is out there? And so, of course, this connects beautifully to Wandering Day, right? The unknown ahead. Like, these are entwined. They're inextricable from each other. And so when...

Because Marigold is like operating from this position of worry and caution and fear, which ultimately then for Nori leads to the sense of like confinement in the premiere. And so then that moment in the finale where Nori says, because her family's go, like, you're going to do this thing. You're going to go. And when she says, I'll be careful. Marigold, he says, no, you'll be bold. It's just like.

So beautiful and heart-wrenching. It's just incredible. It's amazing. And to me, like, weeping, sobbing, genuinely. It's just, as our pal and colleague Katie Baker likes to say, sobbing blogging. Like, this is real sobbing blogging.

Sobbing potting. Yeah, exactly. Sobbing potting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's really funny. This is just like adventures they must be shared like you said. I couldn't agree more. It is just so central to what we love about doing this together and with all of the bad babies. And it's so central to what we love about this world, about being in Middle Earth. And like...

You know, you think of like reading The Hobbit for the first time and coming across like that description of they never had any adventures or did anything unexpected. And like you build a couple lines later to this is a story of how a Baggins had an adventure. Like that is the core of this. This is the story of how a Baggins had an adventure. He may have lost the neighbor's respect, but he gained, well, respect.

you will see whether he gained anything in the end. And that's your invitation as the reader, like to go on the adventure with them. And like, what an incredible gift. Um, yeah,

I love this. Uh, this made me really happy. And I mean, yeah, it was, it was funny because when we were at the Lord of the Rings musical in Chicago, like, you know, occasionally people spot us in the wild, come up and say hi to us. A lot of people, uh, came up like more than we're used to. And you turn to a point, you're like, there's a lot of people here, like come and say hi to us. And I was like, think about it. Think about where we are. We're at a Lord of the Rings musical. This is like Mecca for the bad babies. So like, yeah, of course we saw a lot of people there. Um,

Because these are exactly the kind of stories that our lovely listeners want to share with us. So that makes me really happy. Last but not least, of course, we saved maybe, I don't know, the best or certainly I think what the story thinks is the most important thing for last, which is the interplay between Sauron, who was Halbrand, and will be Annatar. And...

Galadriel here. Galadriel. Quote. Oh, man. To many, he appeared fair. To others, terrible. But to some, evil. I guess you've got a couple here. Perhaps one of ours overlaps. Carlos, why don't you just play every clip you got. Let's just go for it. And whatever it was you did, be free of it. I never believed I could be until today.

Fighting at your side, I felt... If I could just hold on to that feeling, keep it with me always, bind it to my very being, then I... I felt it too. There is no king of the Southlands. The line was broken. The last man to bear your crest died over a thousand years ago. He had no heir. I told you I found a son of dead man. No.

I have no notes. Honestly.

Oh, great. So good. So we both. Those are my two moments. Great. The episode six one was mine as well. So. So episode six, that one was what I picked for Galadriel and Halbrand. And then the finale moment is what I originally picked for Region because it takes place there. And I was like, I can tie this to the forging of the ring.

the rings and I was like let's just bundle these together I thought for sure you were going to pick Finale Eregion which is why I picked episode 6 post battle but these are so they're I mean it's literally the second one references the first they're bound to each other bound in the darkness by them what I love listening to them back to back something I didn't realize like sort of in watching them is that uh

that they have the same, initially have the same score behind them. This like Halibrand Galadriel theme that, you know, then the finale turns into like Mordor hooting and grunting. Great stuff from Bear McCreary, honestly. What do you want to say about Galadriel and Halibrand?

I think what I want to ask once again, as we did at a time, is does Galadriel fuck Sauron, if not for the ill-timed interruption of the soldier to summon, to issue Mariel's summon for the king of the Southlands? They're wearing a lot of armor that they have to get through. They'd make do. Okay. They'd make do. In the beginning of the film Excalibur,

I believe it's Gabriel Byrne, like, fuck someone in full, like, plate armor. And I was just sort of like, that's... I would have taken some time to take that armor off. Seems heavy and sweaty. Pinchy? Like, perhaps pinchy? Anyway, go ahead. Oh, God. These are both great scenes. The sequence in episode six, after the battle, sitting on the log, where they both seem...

so shaken but also transported and alive with this new connection and sense of possibility. And I love that the starting point for that conversation is they're each thanking the other for holding them back, for being a check. From the darkness. Yes. And so it's entwined but also kind of a contrast to the bookend moment in the finale, the second clip that we heard, which is about how they might

amplify each other. That's really Sauron's, Halbrand, sorry, Sauron, hot Sauron who fucks. That's really his pitch, like the alloy, right? That they're going to forge for the rings, like amplify, boost. And I think this question, like the substance of what Galadriel is saying on that log and then the

that Sauron issues in the moment of truth in the finale, like this question of can you absolve another person? We talk so much, rightly, because it is a moment we love. We talk so much about the Gandalf-Frodo conversation from Fellowship, right? Many that live deserve death and some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death and judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. Well,

One of the things that I loved about this Galadriel-Halbrand, just in general, the sequence and the shared arc, is, like, we think a lot about one side of that Gandalf lesson to Frodo. Like...

Do not be too eager to deal with death and judgment. But then this is kind of the other part of it. Like, would it be right to offer that forgiveness to Sarah? Would it be? Should anybody be able to absolve someone who has done those things? And then...

Like, obviously, that is not the choice that Galadriel ultimately makes. But, like, if she... If we play out the string, this is ultimately a thought experiment at this point, but it's like, if she had been able to, if she had decided to do it, would Sauron have not become or continued to be Sauron? Or would he have? Because right there in the pitch he makes is like...

I know this is not what you're saying. I know this is not what you're saying. There is a shitty interpretation of that that is saying like, if only Galadriel had given him a chance, he wouldn't have been the evil lord. No, no, no, no. I know that's not what you're saying. No, that's because like the last part I'm saying, to the last part of that is like, when he's saying like, I told you the truth. I told you that I had done evil and you did not care, right? And then we think back to like,

The fourth episode, the Numenor sequences, the fourth and fifth episodes where he's like, give them a means of mastering it so that you can master them. And then we start to think about like the nature of this time together more broadly, like through the lens of this clarity and the way that he whispers like in the finale elsewhere before this.

you pushed me to heights that no one else could have. I will never forget that. And I'll see to it that no one else does either. Which is a threat. The threat that is inherent in that. Yeah. And so like, when he says... Well, I also believe him that he did want to stay in New England. We got some... I remember our listeners sent in some great pieces of text to this idea that there was a time in his life where Sauron wanted, if not redemption, then just sort of like...

he did want to heal the lands. He did want to like go to Numenor and sort of like start anew. So there are these like, there were the, it wasn't just like plots and schemes. He was pushed by, again, it's not her fault, but he was sort of like pushed by Galadriel to leave. And in doing so, she unwittingly to go back to the quote that you pulled from Eregion, sorry, from Linden and Gil-Galad. There she goes.

There she goes. So we are obviously, it is a good thing to clarify, we are not saying it is Galadriel's fault. I am not saying that. But in terms of what the story is examining, the fact that Galadriel will wonder that and grapple with that and have to agonize over that is so interesting. And that's why it's so important that dusted and dappled throughout, there are all of these moments where we, you know...

Could Sauron's path have been different if any number of other things had happened? Maybe. But it is inescapable ultimately in this conversation. In the Mind Palace sequence where he is holding her prisoner inside of her own memories and weaponizing and warping things like her devotion to her pledge to carry on her brother's legacy where you can't escape what the darkness has done to him and is for him still. And so you have a moment where he's saying...

You told me once that we were brought together for a purpose, right? There's that ours was no chance meeting idea that we had so much fun talking about at the time and speculating about. It was such interesting, like theory father for us at the beginning of the season. Yeah. And he's saying, this is it.

you bind me to the light and I bind you to power together. We can save this middle earth. And she says, save a rule. And he says, I see no difference. And then does the mirror of Galadriel ask, like, Hey, take a look at the surface of this water and let's like, see what our future could be. And which of course then, you know, makes us think about the, like I've, I've passed the test moment that will come much later in the story in, in the, in the trilogy. But,

Like, I see no difference tells us all we need to know. And it tells Galadriel all that we need to that she needs to know. And so hopefully there is a little something there where she can absolve herself and say he was going to go down this path no matter what. But it is so interesting then that like, does she? OK, she goes back up. Does she say to them, let's not make the rings? No, no. She says, let's make three rings.

Right. One's going to corrupt. Two's going to divide. But three, that'll be the key. And like almost whether regardless of everything that comes in the future and whether or not that proves to be true, the fact that she is not only not telling them what has happened, but saying to like Elrond, remember when you told me you were going to trust me next time? Just like drop it.

is disturbing. And so again, this is this like perfect sequence because we are horrified on her behalf, but also like a little bit nervous about what we are witnessing. And then Sauron, we're like, you know, we as the audience, just like the characters around him have to be compelled. Like we have to be compelled that it wouldn't be effective if we weren't. And then we have to

be horrified that we allowed ourselves for a moment to like lean in to the invitation. So I just thought this was all so well done. Like if anybody listened to the pods, but didn't listen to the final section where we went into, you know, full like the,

full, full, full, no holds barred, no spoilers barred, theorizing like, we felt pretty sure the entire way that Halbrand was going to be Sauron, but it didn't diminish the impact of this finally coming to fruition. It was just such a satisfying thing to watch and like the way that Charlie Vickers' voice changes when he went

And he says, I've been awake since before the breaking of the first silence. It's like chill-inducing. So just great stuff. The accent work, so good. I think, so something that we like sort of found out

adjacent to covering season one is this idea that like the, the mirror, the chapter in a fellowship with the ring, the miracle Adriel and the section where she talks about Sauron, like sort of ever seeking her ever reaching out and grasping for her, his eye on her.

was a big inspiration for JD and Patrick and Brian, et cetera, when they made this show to be like, okay, what's the story there? Like, what's the connection between Sauron and Galadriel? Is this a toxic, like they never said this, but I'm saying like, is this a toxic ex-boyfriend sort of situation? Like, and the way that they're playing, it's so funny because so many people at the end of last season of the first season were like,

you were dumb to ship them or like so long, like Halbrad and Galadriel shippers. I was like, oh, you don't know the internet. This is only made them more enthusiastic. Have you, can I introduce you to the Ray Lowe's? Anyway, so like the, the way that they're playing with

one of our shared favorite tropes of the problematic fave and the redemption arc of a Jamie Lannister or a Sawyer Unlost, et cetera, et cetera. And so when...

when we watch this, we can't help but say like, oh, is there, is there a saving of this person? We love a character on an arc. Like what, what could Sauron move Halbrand? Who is Sauron? Like move towards, again, none of this is Galadriel's responsibility in any sense, but it's just sort of like, that's our instinct is like, we want redemption. That's, that's, that's the urge and,

We know that that's not the reality. And so the way in which they play with that, the way in which the tension between those two things exists. I mean, even in season two, like I know that Sauron as Edditar is about to like at least ruin Celebrimbor's year, if nothing else. And I'm just sort of like...

I'm still, you know, and part of it, you know, to be like completely transparent, of course, is like Charlie Vickers is a charisma bomb. He's so good in this role. So it's just like, you know, it's just sort of like compelled. And here we are. And that's the trick of the story that inspired them in the first place. It's like what would connect a Galadriel to a Sauron ever in the first place, you know? Right.

Yeah. Is Galadriel here? She is. And so is Hatsaron, who fucks. And boy, was it fun to watch. You had this line in your Linden pick in that Galadriel-Elleron conversation, but like, evil does not sleep, Elleron waits, and in the moment of our complacency, it blinds us. For Galadriel to be presented as a character who is persevering...

perseverating over that and thinking about that risk, mindful of that risk constantly, but to still be in a situation where that reality then shapes her, her life is, if he can even get Galadriel, like what's, what's to stop him. And we know what's to stop him. And we will continue to watch to see that in effect. That does it, I think for our nine stop tour of,

middle earth and its many uh relationships really thrilled really exciting to do this rewatch to go through this uh revisitation with you not surprised to see the overlap that we have in some of our very most cherished scenes and uh really really excited to get into season two uh later this week with you we'll be back then thank you to mallory for like taking time out of genuinely she's still on vacation uh to record this podcast with me um

And thank you to Carlos Chiriboga for filling in for Steve back on the Rings of Power beats. So great to have you, Carlos. Thank you to John Richter for his video work on this episode. And thank you to our Jenner and Rinko pal and Jomia Dinoran for their work in general and on social, et cetera. They're the best. We love our team. We love our fellowship. We will be back with you all. Hobbitsanddragons at gmail.com for all of your Tolkien questions, comments, and concerns. And we'll see you soon. Bye.