Matinee Monday: Monkey Shines
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It's like single white female, but with a monkey. We saw monkey shines, so you know what that means. Now it's time for...

Hello, people of Earth, and welcome to How Did This Get Made? I am Paul Scheer, joined as always by Jason Manzoukas. How are you, Jason? I'm good, Paul. How are you? Very good. And June Diane. Raphael, how are you, June? I'm doing great. How are you, Paul? I'm very good. Guys, this is a great time to get started.

This is the first time we've ever done this. No guests on How Did This Get Made. Fuck guests, bro! Fuck them! We don't need them! We want to apologize. Sorry for this episode being late, but ultimately deal with it. I mean, really. We're doing the best we can, guys. We're trying. We're doing the best we can. And speaking of someone who is doing the best that he can, I want to give a shout out to Harrison Freeman. Harrison Freeman designed our How Did This Get Made t-shirt. It came to my attention this week.

that we never actually credited him for the Daredevil t-shirt. So if you're wearing a Daredevil t-shirt, how'd this get made one? It was Harrison Freeman. He's an awesome guy. And if you're out there, I don't know, as a guy who hires freelance artists, maybe you want to look up Harrison Freeman. And if you're just wearing a regular Daredevil t-shirt? Fuck you. Whoa! Not fuck you to June. Fuck you to the Daredevil t-shirt. I can't believe you just said fuck you to June.

But that t-shirt's still for sale in our shop, so go buy a piece of that wonderful artwork. Americana. I call it a piece of Americana. Wear it on your stupid bodies. All right, so let's talk about this movie. Oof. Wow. I just watched it. We watched it on Saturday. Oh, God.

This movie is long. Definitely long. Whoa, is this movie long. It takes a long time. There is a full hour of setup. One hour of setup. One hour of setup. And it plays like a drama. It does play like a... It plays like a movie that you would watch on Lifetime. It plays like a Lifetime movie. That's what I thought that too. That's so funny. Yeah, because it's like... Ah, man, we're gone. Guys, we're all the same. We don't need these guests.

Fuck guests, man. I'm looking at the empty chair right now. Fuck that guest. We should just take pictures of the empty chair and put them on the Facebook page. So, yeah. No, I felt like the beginning...

First of all, the moment, there's two things that I knew were weird right from the top. First of all, that disclaimer about no monkeys were injured in the movie, but also monkeys can do everything you're going to see in this movie. Yep. It's like a double-edged warning. Yeah, that's interesting. And then we are introduced to our main character. Yep. Through just waking up out of bed and then doing a naked stretching. Loved it. Loved it? Loved it.

I've never... I gotta say, I love the whole first hour of the movie. Like, what? Whoa! Whoa! What are you talking about? I know it was insane, but I thought it was really... It was boring. See, I actually thought it was really compelling, this... Wait, what? This guy... Well, I thought it was really sad, too, but I thought it was a compelling story. Like, this guy who needs this monkey to...

The man is perfectly fine. And sort of saves him from depression and suicide and really saves his life. Well, see, and I've also, I have worked with animal actors. Yes, I have worked with animal actors. Animal actors. I worked on Animal Practice. And I saw the relationship between that monkey, who's also female, and her handler. And there is something that happens between a monkey and a monkey.

And they're Handler. And they're Handler, and there's this sort of like, well, look, this is a lot. I'm going all over the place right now. Is this something you know about? Like monkey actors, monkeys? I don't know. Monkey relationships? I just know from the field. Got it. I just know from my own personal experience with monkeys. Which is like very... Extensive. Extensive. You did a couple episodes with a famous monkey. A very famous monkey. From The Hangover. The Hangover monkey. Yes, exactly. So...

I did think it was a very interesting story to tell, and I thought, wow, this is well-acted, and I'm listening, and I'm here. So I did want to ask you, did you find the monkey's performance credible? Yes, I did. Wow. Yes, I did. Well, I think this monkey did a great job. I mean, look, if we're going to talk about...

The monkey in this movie, this capuchin monkey did an amazing job. Now, there's a lot of conflicting reports here. Some people say it was one monkey. Well, it's credited as one monkey in the credits. Right. Boo. But other people say that they've used up to six monkeys in this movie.

So we don't know. See, I would actually say that- In the part of Ella or- In the part of Ella. Oh. No, yeah, not all of them. Ella didn't play all the monkeys. The movie takes a turn once we head into the monkey cam perspective. Correct. That's where things get so crazy. Can we just set up just for the audience for one second? Yes, let's set it up. Set it up. So if you haven't seen this movie- I'm still blown away. I didn't dream. That you loved the first hour of this movie. Well, we're going to get into it. Which I thought was almost unwatchable. Really? Yeah.

The opening of the movie, we basically... The movie goes out of its way to show a healthy, vibrant man who... He says hello to everyone in his neighborhood. And as he's running down the street... Jogging with a backpack full of bricks. Which I guess you do as a professional jogger? Runner? I don't know if he's professional. I think he might still be amateur. I don't know if he's gone pro yet. So, you know, he has a bag full of bricks. But the bricks don't even really play a part in it because...

They don't play any part in it. They play an enormous part in it.

Because they are used as the device to show that he is broken because the brick falls in slow-mo and it shatters onto the ground like his body. And the brick is broken because as he's running, a stray dog runs out, barks at him, causing him to run off the sidewalk and get hit by a truck. And the worst low-budget truck hit of all time. You see nothing. You see nothing. All you see is like a close-up of a truck bumper or fender and then

Just some noise, and then you see that great break. Actually, that's interesting, knowing what we'll come to know, that it was an animal that caused the accident. Oh, June, look at that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's right on theme. That's interesting. So it's an animal that undoes him, and it's an animal that brings him back. That's right.

Did you guys notice that the first hour of this movie, or pretty much the entire movie... Was unwatchable? Yes, I noticed that, Paul. Thank you. That the movie, it looked like a set of a Neil Simon play. That's so weird. It looked really setty. Like it was a Broadway stage. The hospital set? The hospital? The tooch is loose in this one, guys. The tooch is loose. Tooch is... I said, did you do the tooch? I said...

I'll tell you one thing. Clearly, the toot was improvising because they're going into surgery and he's supposed to be this real cocky doctor. And he's like, hey, look at this guy's hairy ass. His ass is hairier than yours, he says to the nurse. Yeah. But two seconds before, we saw this guy's a very clean ass. Very smooth ass. Well, that's why I think what we'll get to is like, I am trying to understand, did he have something against him? Did he?

botched that surgery because he was threatened just by how... What, a physical specimen? Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't think so. I think he's just like a cocky, asshole, you know, God complex doctor. So you think he did the best he could and acted ethically. But he's not paying enough attention because he's...

He's doing these back surgeries all the time. Right. And even Ugly Doctor says he did a totally competent job. Yeah. But he might have overlooked this other thing. Right. Okay. Because he's too busy banging that sweet poon. He's too busy fucking... Now he's got a hard-on for northern exposure. Oh, by the way. All right. So this is the thing. He gets... Obviously, he's broken. He becomes a paraplegic. He comes home with a nice big... Which, by the way, let me just say, that is a fear of mine that like...

And that's why there were things about this movie that played upon specific fears I have in life. You will have to be taken care of by a monkey? No.

Not that one. But that I will be, yes, rendered. Yes. Oh, of course. Powerless. And also that doctors are not being respectful in a circumstance like that. That doctors and medical professionals are being glib and careless and casual. Yeah, because that's the thing is when the tooch comes into the operating room, he's like, is he out? Yes. Great. We got a real dum-dum. We got hit by a car. He's like being really glib and disparaging towards our hero.

And I have to say that people really turn on him the minute he becomes a paraplegic. Like his girlfriend, Northern Exposure, super attractive girl. What was her name on Northern Exposure? Do we remember? Her name is Janine Turner. She was. She also does that Christian yoga now.

What? She's in Christian yoga? She's super, super Christian now. And she is the spokesperson. Maggie, thank you. She is the spokesperson for like Christian yoga, which is basically like, hey, Christians, we can still do yoga. It's not like a demon practice. Yeah.

It's okay. We can do yoga if we want. We just have to put our attention towards God. During it? Not like the demons that the yoga people worship. Those horrible yoga demons. Yoga's not religious. There's a whole infomercial about it. It's pretty phenomenal. Oh, my gosh. Wow. I questioned her motivation, too, because it seemed to me that she decided that the day he came home was the day she would leave him.

She hasn't been to the hospital, she says, Barry. By the way, that is the way it's treated. It's treated as though he's died. Yes. Like in that homecoming for him is treated like a wake.

And I also found it very strange that nobody went to go pick him up at the hospital. Yeah. The van drops him off and is like, there you go, pal. You're a quadriplegic. And by the way, drops him off in a neighborhood where I was expecting like poot from the wire to pop out. I was like, where does he live? It's like, it looks like a suburban ghetto. I don't know why they did that. Like, I don't know what we were, what was gained from like knowing he was dead.

I don't know. I don't know either. He, well, I feel like one, there's a couple of things at play.

He is the son of a wealthy family because they pay for all of his everything. I didn't put that together either. He's the son of a wealthy family. What does the mom do? She has a business that she sells off to come take care of him eventually, but she spends all of the money hiring the nurse, outfitting the place with all of the handicapped showers and all that kind of stuff. And he's like, my mom must have spent a fortune. I feel like he's a wealthy kid who's like,

in law school slumming it because he's going to put himself through law school. He's not going to take his parents' money. Well, he certainly didn't put any of the money in the design of the house, which just had like random Jamaica and Barbados posters. Like they took from a travel board. Tourism board.

Who puts those up? Who will give us free posters? Tourism boards of any country will give you a free poster. He loves... Because I think I quite get a... Here's my thing. I don't have a handle on this character. The main character? No. I don't know really what he does. He's in law school. Okay, so he's in law school. But his personality... But what type of law does he want to practice? Like, is he... Animal? Oh, right. He goes to law school. No, you see, I thought he goes... I thought that he decided to go to law school...

After the attack. No. Okay. He is in law school. That's where he's running to in the beginning. Oh. No, no, no. He's just running for exercise. No, he's running to class. Not with a backpack full of bricks. He's not. He's studying masonry. What? That was his project. June. June. Wait. No. He was taking a class on construction and he had to bring in his show in town. With a backpack full of bricks. Oh.

I thought he was a runner. I really thought he was a runner. You thought he was a professional. Yeah, because they always showed all those pictures of him running around. Well, he, okay, okay, okay. There are, it is a little difficult and misleading. He is a runner. He is a runner. We meet his coach. Right, yes. We meet his coach at the house. By the way, it says, I was his coach. Yes. Yeah.

People have given up on him. And we also meet his law professor, that stern-looking woman who talks to the teach. Oh, right. Okay, so he is in law school and is apparently on the running team, I'm assuming. We've only gotten to really the first five minutes. Yes. Oh, my God. But I agree. So professionally, he's in law school. His hobby is running. Okay, we don't know what law he wants to practice. No. What type of law? Okay. Okay.

Oh my God. Would that make a difference? But I agree with you. Actually, I think it could have, yeah. He is a real empty vessel. Yeah. There's no character beats for him beyond like he is hit by a car and now he has a beard. And by the way, I have to say the best monologues of all time. This guy monologues more than anyone and they're fizzly.

filthy angry we'll play a couple of them that's eventually though yes that's the monkey talking I actually do think that we're supposed to think he's a little bit vapid that he's like on top of the world a little bit and he's you know got this beautiful woman in bed he's in law school he's a great runner like he I think they were making the point of he doesn't

He doesn't have... He's had no hardship. Yes, he's had no hardship. And so he is a little bit of an empty suit, right?

But it's a horror movie, right? So you would think that like... Is it a horror movie? Well, I mean, it's classified as a horror movie. It is, I guess. Is it a morality play? I don't know. Not really, because he's done nothing wrong. Well, that's the thing. You know, like he is a truly like a victim of catastrophic circumstance. Yes. He is not... It's not coming to him, it doesn't seem like, you know. He's not owed this karmically or anything. Yeah. No. But the monkey also is...

A product of circumstance as well. Oh, yeah. No, the monkey. Okay, so now we can. Yes, let's get into the monkey. So there's one person who doesn't show up at this homecoming. Correct. And that is, and now we are introduced to. His brother? No, his buddy, I think. His buddy. From? John Pankow. John Pankow from. Mad About You. Mad About You. No, I know John Pankow, but from, how does he know this guy? Oh, I think they might be in school together. Yeah.

He's in the science department and he's in the law department. Oh, he's at that school? Yes. Oh, okay. So John Pankow is doing something, and I wrote down here, confused about what he is, I have no idea what he's doing. He's just injecting human, freeze dried human brains into monkeys' asses?

Yes. Okay. But he's also injecting something into himself. But that's only to stay awake. That's just, yes. Okay. That's what I thought. Okay. So he's like juicing himself. But there's a lot of injecting going on, which was confusing. And it just, he gets a brain. He's like, we got this brain. And then he seems to have frozen it and then is shaving it off like a truffle. Yeah, like truffle shavings. I noticed that too. And then putting it into a syringe. David Chang would have a blast. Yeah.

With some frozen human brains that he could just lightly shave. He was supposed to be the guest for this, but he got so excited he's getting human brains out of this. This was meant to be a culinary episode. So yeah, so he's injecting human brains into monkeys' asses, which I still don't understand. By the way, I did have a question about that, the shaving of the brain. It's like, is the brain at that point is just...

Yeah, he like freezes it. But you're not going to get those brain cells aren't going to go into the monkey. Like that was my issue. Like the brain cells of the science trying to what he's trying to do is make the monkey smarter. Right. That's it. That's it is just it's an experiment to make the monkey smarter. And his genius breakthrough discovery is that if you just inject the

Yeah. Stuff into a monkey's bloodstream, it will get smarter. And that, at the root of it, I don't know much about science. At the Steven root of it. Steven root. First performance in a movie, this movie. The first performance? Yes, his very first performance was Monkey Shed. Wow. Well, then he was very good. Very...

Actually, I have to say the acting for what these people had. I was talking to Patton Oswalt about this movie and he described this movie as a product of George Romero's one bottle of vodka a day addiction at this point. Like he was drinking a bottle of vodka a day at this point when he wrote and directed this film.

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The movie feels like, and the movie feels to me like two different movie ideas mashed together. Yes. Which is weird because it's based on a book. Oh, interesting. I didn't know that. Well, here's the thing. I want to ask a question about that human brain. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was this, where did they get that brain? Because I thought at a certain point. Jane Doe. Okay, because I thought at a certain point we missed something and this must have been the brain of like a serial killer or something. No. Which would also make sense. Or a prison brain.

Which would make sense because... Well, let's be honest. It wouldn't make sense. It would make total sense. It would at least be a line. It wouldn't make sense in the sense of like... It still wouldn't add up to a movie that makes sense. But I would understand that there's a murderer's brain on the loose. Wasn't there like that movie where it was called Body Parts where they cut off people's hands? What was that? I think it was Body Parts. It was released at the same time that the Jeffrey Dahmer stuff came out and they buried it real quick. The...

But here, but so he's injecting it and Steven Root's like, "We need these monkeys to be smarter."

But I don't quite, I mean, I don't even really believe that, was this monkey getting smarter? Because it seemed like the monkey was just doing... So basically, long story short, John Pankow goes to a monkey farm where they train monkeys to be paraplegic helpers. He's like, hey, look, my friend's paraplegic. Can you take one of my monkeys and get him involved with my friend? Which again, doesn't make sense because...

Is he still doing the research or is he helping his friend? Well, yeah, no, no. This is, I do think I know a little bit of what this is going on. Because what he says is, oh, John Pankow. Yes. It's worth watching this movie just for the very lengthy scenes in which John Pankow is in a lab talking only to monkeys. Yes. He talks out loud. Primarily, yeah. He's all exposition. He's saying everything out loud and acting his balls off because he's acting against nothing.

And I think he did a good job. He does a great job. He did a great job. He does a great job. I was watching that. He literally speaks for 20 minutes in this movie to no one. To no one. Okay, so... And handles it quite well. It's better than Tom Hanks in Castaway. Anyway, he says...

You should be super smart by now to the monkey. He's like, why aren't you smart? And then he has this idea. He thinks, oh, maybe you're smart because you're still only around other monkeys doing monkey stuff. Maybe you need to be out in the world. Got it. And so he has this idea wherein he's going to kill two birds with one stone. He's going to get this monkey to help his friend because any monkey can help a friend. Like the monkeys the woman is training are just regular monkeys. Right.

So his idea is, I will do that and I will also secretly have my agenda going on. Jason, you're wrong.

Which is. No, he's right. No, he had a one track mind there. He never cared about helping his friends. Really? No. Yes, he did. Then why train the monkey with the woman at the farm? He loves his friend. Like, I mean, look, if you look no further than the scene, one of the best scenes of the movie, in my opinion. Sex scene. So, well. Second best scene. Where he just like eats her pussy for like an hour. That was amazing. That was amazing.

Did we pull that? You know, I wish. Because I pulled it. Nailed it. Basically, after the guy tries to commit suicide before he has the monkey. He tries to commit suicide by suffocating himself on a dry cleaning bed that is just hung over his head. He, like, wheels himself into position and then must just, like, breathe deep. That's it. Just hope that hope. That seems flawed. Yeah.

But anyway, so basically they go to the hospital to see what's going on. And then oddly, the doctor, Tooch, is now dating the girl from Northern Exposure. That's a blow. That's a tough blow. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's got to sting. Tooch kind of swooped in and- Swooped in? Swooped in? Swooped and then swooped. Swooped and swooped in. Ha ha ha!

He was swooping and swooping. You want another try at that? Nope. Not at all. The chooch swooped and swept in. Swapped in. He swapped in. And, uh...

And grabbed this girl. He's like, you know what? He can't. He was like, paraplegic guy can't do it anymore. I'm going to do the deed. Yep. And then. Oh, and he looks good. He's walking around in a towel at one point. Oh, yeah. And he looked. Tuch was lit. Tuch has got hair. Looks great. His body is ripped. This is not the lovely bones Tuch. This is a younger Tuch. This is young. Who's laying down. On the prowl Tuch. Yeah. And.

Have we said that it's Stanley Tucci yet? I don't think we've made it clear. Are we just calling him the Tucci, which I would like to do for the rest of time. The Tucci gets a real comeuppance because, well, I guess not even to him, but John Pankow is...

the girl from Northern Exposure, a clinical cunt. Yeah. One of the best lines in the movie. I guess you're right. Maybe he did want to help his friend. It just seemed like... Yeah, I think he for sure wanted to help his friend. But then later on, and I don't want to jump ahead... But he also wanted his monkey to be exposed to humans to see if it would get smarter, which, spoilers for this movie, it does. Yep.

But here's the thing. It does get smarter, but the paraplegic monkeys were already doing the same job that this monkey was doing. Right. So that's why he's acting selfishly. He's acting selflessly to help his friend with a monkey, selfishly because it helps his experiment to expose his monkey to the friend. I understand that, but my question is, but the monkey... Okay, so take away...

Yeah, I guess my question is, if you take away everything that we know, and just this is a paraplegic with a monkey helper. Right. Is the only difference is that we only know that this monkey is smart because he's going out and killing people? Oh, and also the monkey is learning fast. Okay. I think you're right, though, because if this was really his intention to sort of, I mean, this is what's weird about it, is that it's not like he's checking in like this is some trial and seeing how the monkey's doing. Yes, he is, though. When?

He keeps coming by and injecting the monkey at the house. Yeah, he's always like, hey, you want a beer? And then he grabs the monkey and then jabs at the mask. I know he's injecting him, but it's not like he's observing how smart or not the monkey is. Remember, he says, she dials the number. We installed this yesterday, but she seems to know all the phone numbers already. Oh, okay. I see. He's collecting anecdotal evidence about how fast the monkey is learning. Here's the problem with the movie. He's lying to the dean that the monkey doesn't exist anymore. So my thought is...

At the end of the day, what was the major plan? I have no idea. And why not just tell... He wants to test it. He's a rogue scientist. But why not just tell your friend, like, hey, by the way, this is what's going on. I have this monkey. Because then the movie wouldn't work. Well, here's the thing. I believe that there's something wrong. There's something missing in this movie. Something is cut out. They've said here, because here's the thing that makes no sense. And I'm jumping a little bit ahead because there's so many things to talk about. But the monk, at certain points...

Our lead character has monkey teeth. Yes. And he is drooling blood. This is the... He's not drooling blood. He bites his lip and he bleeds. Okay. That's why he bleeds. But what is making... The leap that is missing... Yes. Is... Okay. I understand why...

Because of the human brain injections, the monkey is getting smarter because it's being exposed to humans. And it's understanding what the man is saying and it's doing much more complicated things and this, that, and the other. That I understand. It's smarter, so it's better. What I don't understand is why they seem to have a connection that is when the man dreams, he's seeing life through the monkey's eyes. And there's another question, too, is why does both that happen? Why does the man see...

The monkey. Why does the man have monkey teeth? Why does the man have monkey teeth? And also, why does the monkey seem to know what the man's darkest desires and darkest instincts are? They're somehow sharing something, I feel like. Well, that's it. Like, I feel like— And we do share an evolutionary bond with monkeys. Go on, Paul. Well, not to reference this. I don't know if this is actually real science, but I saw in an episode—

of happy days when the Fonz went to, Fonz went to a castle, some sort of Dracula castle. Okay. And they sucked the cool out of him. And we knew that because his thumbs wouldn't go, hey, hey, they would go down. And then they went to someone else and his thumbs went up like, hey.

Oh, wow. So they transferred the cool to another person. I feel like that's the thing that we were missing, the Fonz machine. Well, I think this is – okay, go ahead, Jim. Please someone find that clip for me. What's interesting, though, is that I don't know if we're – if the movie is positing that human instincts are actually terrible and murderous and that animal instincts in and of themselves are pure and –

Yeah, right. Well, I think that, yeah, I think what's happening, even though it's not well explained, is that the monkey is becoming more human and the human is becoming more monkey. Right.

Like he's unable to control his emotions. He's angry. He's like almost like a primate. He's like territorial. He's got monkey teeth. But the monkey teeth are sometimes there and sometimes not. The monkey teeth make no sense. Yeah, the monkey teeth come and go. Why does he have monkey teeth? No idea. Who cares? I bet George Romero is like, you should put his teeth in. It's going to be scary. We're only going to show it in one scene. But then if that's the case, then the monkey...

I mean, I don't know. That's what's just so weird because the monkey becomes a murderer. The monkey wants revenge. Here's what I'll say just so we can put some context to it. The monkey travels a lot of distance, too. Oh, yeah. Should we hear that when the monkey travels, we're in a monkey cam. Can we hear the monkey cam music? The monkey cam music is pretty amazing. Here, take a listen. I have this CD.

So this is just basically monkey cam. It's like a GoPro running through the streets. And the monkey gets distant. Like, he runs out to a cabin in the woods. Like, by the way... Here's the weird thing, though. Where was he going all those nights? Well, he was going out and killing people. Yeah, he was killing people. No, no, no, no. I know when he was killing people, but like...

There were many nights where he left and he was just roaming through fields. Where was he going those nights? Fucking just like getting shit done. Shouldn't the... Errands. But the brain cells shouldn't make him quick. Monkey errands. I got to go pick up my dry cleaning. I got it. Oh, I got to go throw feces. Oh, shit. Here's just something to put it in context. Orion, the studio, which Romero was working with, recut the film against his wishes and

And they contribute, they say that's what made this movie a failure. Because earlier versions of the film allegedly, we don't know this to be true, contained a bizarre brain surgery scene as well as several abusive scenes involving the small monkey. They were deemed too graphic to include in the final cut. But I do have a picture of that brain surgery scene. I can't see that. That's the brain surgery. So he's clearly, our main guy Alan is getting some sort of brain surgery. Which...

I don't know. So that must create the link with the monkey. But how did he do that against his own will? I thought the link with the monkey happened when the monkey ran up to Alan and started licking the blood. Chissing him on the lips? Yeah, licking the blood that was... Okay, Jason. We got it. We're off set. Wait, so was it the monkey going down on the girl? No. Yeah, I...

No. No, because a guy's not going to do that. Yeah, that's what a monkey would want to do. A monkey would want to do it. A monkey would want to get in. I heard that they also cut a scene where the monkey just jammed it in there. Just jacks it? Where the monkey...

Now just making June just making June uncomfortable. Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. Okay. So basically this monkey becomes murderous and as the monkey becomes But it expresses his murderous desires. Yes. Right. So first person up is the nurse. Is it the parakeet? The parakeet. This seems great. Yeah. Because the nurse for no reason is really abusive to Alan. Which by

Which, by the way, I have to say, if I'm a nurse and I'm working in this situation and a monkey comes in to do most of my job and I can just sit there, I feel like I'm happy as a clam. And clams, notoriously happy. Like the happiest single-valve organism on the planet. But why was she so happy?

I just pet a clam all day. He doesn't do anything. He just hangs out. Why was she so upset? We had such a good weekend. June was happy as a clam all weekend. Well, here's the thing. When we first see her at his homecoming party, she's sitting in the background reading a magazine.

Yeah. She reads a lot. She reads a lot. But it doesn't seem like she wants to do anything from the get-go. It seems like the nurse is like, oh, you paraplegic. You're such a bother to me. I have to do all this stuff. Right, but the monkey comes in and does the majority of her work. And then she's jealous of the monkey and their relationship. But yet she has a shit relationship with him anyway. She does nothing. She's a terrible person. We're supposed to not like her. I get that. She's supposed to be a villain so that it makes sense that she deserves what she gets. But...

it doesn't add up. Like, it's just terrible writing. I did think it was really inappropriate for her to bring a bird into a working environment. 100%. Don't bring a parakeet into a house. By the way, that parakeet at one point gets loose and just starts attacking Alan's face and Alan can't move his... That was so scary. That was actually the most scary. Like, oh God. It's like,

Can you imagine? Can you imagine a bird trying to peck your eyes and you simply cannot move? And then she comes in and acts like it's his fault. Oh, yeah. She like yells at him. And so the monkey's like, you don't do that to my master. I'm going to get back at that parakeet. So the monkey sneaks into the parakeet's cage late at night and breaks its neck and then leaves it in the nurse's slipper, which is kind of like his FU to the nurse. Always like shoving bananas in her slipper.

And the next morning, when the nurse comes down, I want to play this clip of Alan yelling at the nurse. We get the first taste of Alan's kind of rage because basically the nurse is like, that monkey killed my parakeet. It's impossible. Here, let's take a listen. That's the bird. Marianne, I think you're confused. Not with his hands. He had his little demon do it for him. Ella was in her cage. I don't know how you did it, but you did it.

He doesn't sound like this in the movie normally. It fucking deserved to die.

And this is the beginning of the animal monologues, which I cannot get enough of. I cannot get enough of these animal monologues. This is when his character, it almost is like he's an empty vessel until now because then he changes into like this angry, yeah, you're right, monologue giving kind of like almost like

chewing up the scenery kind of like bad guy in a way. Because he's got fucking, I don't know, monkey brains in him or something. Well, that's the thing. We don't know what he has in him. We don't know why this change is happening. It's not clear. But yet he seems mad every time the monkey kills somebody. He's like, ah, god damn it. Like he's mad. And he's also like, he's trying to be like, the monkey did it. And everybody's like, this is what bothers me. Everybody's like, what are you talking about, man? The monkey definitely didn't do it. Except that John Pankow should be like, maybe the monkey did it.

Yeah, maybe the stuff I'm giving the monkey has made the monkey do this. And Pankow's like, fucking relax, bro. Can I get a beer? He's always getting that beer. So the monkey then goes off on a murderous rampage, kills the tooch. Kills Northern Exposure, Maggie from Northern Exposure. But now he's seeing it in his sleep.

Yes. So he's seeing the monkey, but yet he... Is he the monkey? Is he controlling the monkey? I don't know if he's controlling the monkey or if he's just along for the ride. Because the monkey would have no idea how to get to that farmhouse. That's what What's-Her-Face keeps on saying, the monkey rescuer. She keeps on saying, like, you didn't do it. It's not you. You know, Ella did it. And tries to, like, distance him from the monkey, but...

If he is having these dreams at night, I do sort of think he killed those people. No, I don't agree. I don't know if he can stop Ella or just see through her eyes.

So he's just along for the journey. Certainly, he is culpable in the sense that his desire is what caused the monkey to go and do it. That's like, you know, he wanted it, and so the monkey went and did it. The monkey is like almost like a Frankenstein monster. But can we break this down and go...

What is happening in this movie? Because this is too many questions to have. Oh, is it? Yeah. We just hit the critical mass of questions? That's where we're at now?

I just feel like you're making a movie about a man and a... Because here's one version of the movie. The monkey is jealous and a protector of the man. Sure. The single white female mold, which is... Great. Get it. And I like that. Then there's the other mold of it, which is they are somehow connected and the monkey is doing the man's bidding. Because he is without a body and the monkey has a body. Right. Great. But it seems like we fall...

in the center of both of them. And what's difficult is it doesn't start to grapple with any of this until over an hour into the movie. I would argue it doesn't start to grapple with it until after like the first two murders. Yeah. Which is almost at the end of the movie. Which is like an hour and 25 minutes in. Until they go to the farmhouse where all the other monkeys are. And then they get that sweet puss in his mouth.

But by the way, this woman who I love, Kate McNeil, who played Melanie Parker. She was great. But she also came in a little hot when we first meet her. She's the monkey trainer. She comes in. She goes, oh, I guess you're the paraplegic because you're the only one sitting down. Like, whoa. Nailed it. Like, let's...

Let's maybe like, you know what? She works with paraplegics. She's going to be like, she's showing him that she's not going to treat him with kid love. And I liked it, yeah. You like that that's good? I did because it was like, she's just not, you know, she doesn't care. This man just tried to commit suicide because he's a paraplegic and this woman's coming in going like, you can't get up. But a part of it is because, you know. People are being so delicate around him and so weird.

She, I thought, I also thought she was terrific. She was great. Except for that seduction scene where she starts to like seductively unbutton her shirt. Yeah. And then it slow cuts to them like doing it and her shirt is still on. I thought that was a bizarre choice too. But by the way, that sex scene reminded me of the 80s in the sense it's like, that was a long... By the way, someone wrote down here, the...

one of the select group of films to ever show quadriplegic sex. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's not a thing that happens often in film, and they went for it. I mean, they really... Yes, they did. That was a very passionate... Yeah, no, they were truthful to what was possible. Yes. Yeah, I don't know all the possibilities, but I imagine that's... Well, I think you can imagine one. Face grinding has got to be one of them.

good old quality face grind. But now here's the question. If you're a woman, she's motivating the face grind. He didn't bring that upstairs. She's riding his face like it's a saddle. Yes, and I thought she handled it beautifully. Yes, she did. She really did. I was nervous about that scene. I didn't know what was going to happen. Well, I thought he was going to get upset, and I just didn't know what was going to happen. He was ready for her.

It almost seemed like she had done it before. Well, she clearly has. She has the apparatus. No, she hasn't. No, she only has the apparatus. I thought that too, but then I realized, oh, she's training all the monkeys and stuff for all this apparatus to be around. Well, but I also think she trains the monkeys in this set, another set, like a three-walled set. A barn. The barn set. And she's like, you can live out in the barn in the barn set. And that's what they have. And the monkeys kind of hoot and holler as they're doing it.

The more they fuck, the more the monkeys go wild because monkeys are so fucking horny. And then... I mean, it wasn't bad. It wasn't bad for... Oh, hey, it wasn't bad. It wasn't bad for like a sex scene in a piece of shit horror movie. I thought it was great.

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Now the movie is getting clocking in here because now things are happening. The monkey has a mind of its own. Well, now we're just like, now we're just cramming stuff in. Yeah, now it literally. Yeah. And here's the other, the main thing that he figures out now is that he has a shot at

walking again oh right well this seemed to me by the way like something that was done in reshoots because you could take them out so clearly like basically because it's like in the middle of the movie they go oh by the way chances are you'll be able to walk again those scenes are so specific so easily took out and they seem like they were shot on the same day that's interesting I wonder what the purpose of that would be

Because I think they wanted to make it a happy ending. Oh, I see. Because I feel like... You're totally right now. It's such a bummer. It feels like they couldn't leave him in that chair at the end. They're like, and you got your powers back. Oh, interesting. Because those scenes... Yeah, I guess so. Those scenes are so out of the norm. It was like... You're right. And what motivates them to seek a second opinion? Yeah. Like, you know. And it's not the path the movie's on, really. Well, when he does find out, I would like to play... Again, I'm going to play...

two more of these monologues because they're so good. I'd like to play the monologue when he finds that. No, I don't think you're right though, Paul. I'm sorry to interrupt. Yeah. Because the reason why he goes after Tuch is because you think they changed that? Because right now it's because the Tuch didn't, you know, may have botched the surgery. Right.

That's part of the reason he goes after the Tucci. No, he goes after him because of the girlfriend. Both. No, they're in the van and he's like, this fucking guy. So they go home and they call the Tucci and the Tucci isn't there and they're like, he's at this number and they give him the number of Maggie from Northern Exposure and then he goes to bed angry. What is that?

assistant would do that like hey I'm gonna go on a private vacation this weekend but if anyone calls for me give them my private beach or my private woods cabin number but if the guy who's ex-girlfriend I'm blasting calls you know what put him through too here is here is Alan's monologue in the van one of my favorite monologues second favorite monologue Wiseman that motherfucker that self-satisfied son of a bitch if he did this to me

He put me through this for no fucking reason other than his own incompetence. Alan, don't waste your time on anger. Son of a bitch. Ego fucking maniac. I don't understand this reaction. You're letting the bad news overshadow the good. There's hope, Alan, not false hope, real hope. Just when things might turn your way. I don't like this change in you, Alan.

So that is Alan. And Alan's basically doing a Marlon Brando impression. Here's the thing that I found really funny about. He's so cursey. He delivers fucks and shits. And the final monologue is one of the best. I don't want to spoil it just yet. But he is also... There's all these posters around LA for this TV show. I think it's called Chicago FD or Chicago PD. This guy is the star of that show. This guy? Yes, Chicago PD. And the tagline is...

don't fuck with my city. Like, and it's like, the fuck is like X'd out. And I was like, what was the most aggressive billboard? Cause it's like, you see fuck on it. It's like just like a CBS show. So it's like, and it always struck me. Shit asshole. Tuesdays at nine 30. And it always struck me. But now when I knew that this is the guy doing it, I'm like a hundred percent by that. Fuck.

You fucking huge piece of shit. You fucking light fires in my fucking city. Fucking kill you, you garbage. Are there times when we're also just in his head?

While he's ranting and raving? No, I think it's all out because she's like, I don't like this change. Yeah. Meanwhile, I think that's the only time it's kind of justified. Like, you find out that the doctor just kind of like callously made you. Well, that's the interesting thing is like, if he now has a monkey brain, it's really not like a monkey to have these. Well, that's the thing is, he's not getting injected with monkey brains. No, but when he kissed that monkey, I don't know what happens. Oh, there's...

I don't know what exchange of fluids. These are like, these kind of scenes of his like angry outbursts, you know, like curse laden monologues, all this stuff is then juxtaposed with, in one instance, a scene where his mom gives him a sponge bath. Yes. Which is so funny. Most upsetting part of the movie. The most upsetting part of the whole movie is when the mom goes to answer the phone and just leaves him. And he's just stuck.

in a swing hanging him in a sack nude that's what I'm saying this movie that was really dark to me like it brought up a lot of weird feelings I didn't like his mom his mom also dressed like like a like a like a

Like a robot. This is what I think mom does. If you were to dress up a robot to be like a mom from the 50s, she was wearing these very frilly outfits. She looked like the robot from the Jetsons. Yes. Yeah, she had some sort of thrills and stuff. She did not look like a human person. Whatever her wardrobe choice was, I did not get behind her. There was definitely people in this movie that appeared to be in a horror movie, the mother being one of them. Yes.

I thought there was going to be a shot of her like turning around or something. Doing something weird and fucked up. She was, her performance was calibrated to like horror movie. Yes. Like bloat and kind of craziness. But it was unwarranted because she only gets killed sometimes.

By the monkey. And you don't even get to see it. He just kills her in the tub. Yeah. I don't even know. He electrocutes her. Yeah, because she's like masturbating in the tub and the monkey comes. I don't think she was masturbating in the tub. Whatever. Tomato, tomato. So can I just, I want to give you guys a little test, a little Q&A here. So according to Variety magazine, 16 titles were tested.

I'm going to read you this to see what America would respond to. Obviously, Monkey Shines, An Experiment in Fear, See No Evil, Hear No Evil, Speak No Evil was the one that was listed. But here are the titles. I'm going to give you four of them. You tell me which one was not a title that was tested. It was not a title. Okay. Okay, ready? Ella, Monkey Master, The Primate, Monkey See, Monkey Do.

which was not tested. Which was not tested. I'm going to say The Primate. Primate. Ella. Both of those were tested. Monkey Master was the made up one. Monkey Master. Ella, The Primate, and Monkey See, Monkey Do. Monkey See, Monkey Do might have been the best title. That's the best title for sure. By the way, what does Monkey Shine mean? No idea. Yeah, what does Monkey Shine mean? Is that a phrase that... I don't know.

This is one of those things that I'm just like, oh, I guess that's a thing. I don't know what it is, and I'm not curious enough. Well, to me, I always thought this was like a Stephen King novel. Like The Shining? Yeah. Like Monkey Shining? I wonder if it was subconsciously trying to be like, it's like The Shining, but with a monkey. Okay.

I'm reading this. So it says, Monkey Shine is a U.S. coinage dating back to the early 19th century, meaning a prank or trick or boisterous behavior. It's one of several English words or phrases that draws parallels, usually not very negative, between human and playful simian behavior. Monkey business. Monkey around. More fun than a barrel of monkeys. Monkey see, monkey do. All being a monkey sound alike.

Got it. Okay, so basically monkey shines, you may land on probation at college or it even may cost you your job, but you're unlikely to land in the slammer for monkey shining around. Got it. It's used in the sarcastic sense to mean serious ethical or legal violations. Do you guys have a – do you guys think that Ella was doing anything with the human brains that a regular monkey couldn't have been trained to do? Yes. Yes.

Such as? Murder. Murder. Run to a cabin, light it on fire. Find where people are and murder them. Yeah. I would say that was probably the big one. Oh, I'm sorry. Premeditated murder. Not accidental. Premeditated murder. Okay, but up until then, you think all of the stuff she did at the house...

Any old monkey could be trained to do. Yes, but... Any old, like, intelligent monkey. Yes, but I think what we're led to believe is that she is learning much faster his needs and wants and is able to, like, the example is that phone thing. Right. Where he says, we just installed it yesterday, and she already knows everybody's phone number. Like, I think she's just...

Whereas the monkey trainer says it takes her months and months and months to train a monkey to do all these things. Right. You know? Well, now let's talk about the end. All right. So the monkey kills the mom. Wait, wait. Did we finish about the sponge bath? I'm just kidding. Now the monkey somehow, the monkey also wants to fuck this guy. That's the thing too because the monkey is killing everyone in this man's life and he's now going to try to kill his new love interest. She. Right? Yeah, no, I was saying she. Well, that is the thing.

thing that happened and this is what I was going to say is that monkeys can imprint on their like Twilight yes like Twilight on their male masters and not like oh my god and this monkey's name is Ella like Bella from Twilight whoa guys prequel prequel guys did Stephanie Meyer write this movie

So basically, again, it doesn't make any sense because he's killing everyone who's mean to him or really just slightly inconveniencing him. No, I think the monkey... No, no, no. The monkey... He's also going to kill the woman. I'm sorry, I can't remember her name. Mel? The monkey also wants to kill Mel, which is the point where we realize like, oh, he... Ella is no longer just...

like taking his darkest thoughts and acting upon them because he doesn't want to kill Mel. Right. That's true. She is now like deciding. But all the other murders, all the other murders are murders of, oh, well, the monkey also at one point wants to kill him. Remember it holds a razor blade to his neck. Yes.

Yeah, the monkey gets real close to him. Because remember he was shaving in the beginning. Oh, don't give him the razor. Oh, and the monkey is like obsessed with the blood from the shaving too. I remember that happening and being like, is something going to happen there? Oh, but then this is, but okay. So then the guy also does this at the end when they're getting crazy. He fucks the monkey, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But at a certain point at the end, like when they're realizing the monkey's going... I mean, he can't, but the monkey just sits on his face for a while. When they realize the monkey is going crazy, like he literally goes like this. He's like, okay, I got to control the monkey. Let me go into a trance, which is like new information. He's like... Like he forces himself to go to sleep. Wait, what? Did I miss this?

Never in the kitchen? It's like in Game of Thrones when... This reference is going over June's head. Where Bram is, because he's a warg. Warg? I don't know that. Yeah, warg or something. He is able to take over Hodor. Yes. You know, it's like that. He tries to go into a trance in order to see through Ella's... But that's the first time we're hearing of that. He's like, oh yeah, yeah, I can control him.

Oh, yeah, yeah. This is all under... I can do this. Which, again, makes me believe that there is a connection. But wait, I have a... Go ahead, Jo. No, I'm just saying we haven't even talked about the fact that John Pankow at one point takes...

Not monkey brains, but human brains. Yeah, he injects himself with the monkey serum. Oh, yeah. So that he can see, because he tries to, oh my God, I was just going to bring this up too. Okay, so at a certain point, when everybody realizes that Ella is the threat, or that Ella might be acting weird, John Pankow takes Ella back to the lab and tests her. And is like, then he's saying, this is one of his monologues. He's like, oh my God.

Ella, you're smarter than half the people in this hospital. You're smarter. I should have you doing my work instead of me doing my work. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The monkey is now testing off the charts for intelligence. Yeah. But he doesn't understand what the connection stuff is. So then he's like, I'm going to inject myself with the stuff so that I can see you while you see Alan. But that makes no sense because it's like... So my question is...

Basically, what it should have been is we took a little bit of Alan's brain. Oh, maybe this is the plot. We take a little bit of Alan's brain, put it in the monkey, so the monkey knows everything that Alan's thinking. Yes, I bet that's the brain surgery. And that's the whole thing. It's not the Jane Doe's brain. It's Alan's brain. That makes total sense. Makes total sense. He's like, okay, we'll put... And that makes the movie make...

way more sense. 100% that's got to be right. Because you're part of your... Wait, say it again. Basically, it'll be like, all right, so John Pancao, this is what the movie probably was. John Pancao comes to him and goes, look, I figured out a way to do something to give you back your body. I'm going to take a piece of your brain and inject it into a monkey. So the monkey will be part of you

and be part of it. So you can be able to control it with your brain. My, okay. And then, and so that's how they have the shared knowledge of everything. I think you're probably right. I think only, only because Alan seems oblivious the whole movie. Yes. I think Pankow somehow did it without Alan knowing it. Gave him a brain surgery? Somehow he needed brain surgery. Okay, I'm fine with that. Or something happened in the accident and so forth. You still believe Alan is a friend of his.

Yeah. No, you see, that makes it more, to me, it makes it more. Maggie from Northern Exposure calls and is like, where are you? That's his introduction. No, I know that's how he's introduced, but I still think that he's sort of the. Oh, he's certainly a Dr. Frankenstein type character, you know, who is, cares about his experiment. Right, but now you can at least admit that there's nothing. I will not admit it. But June, you will never get me to admit it. There's nothing about this character that's redeeming. He doesn't care about his friend. Right.

At all. I know, but I think it's because of re-editing, because I really do think he was like, I want to get my friend's legs back. This is how I'm going to do it. The monkey will be part of him, and that's the experiment that's gone wrong. I think you're right. Because that would be the only reason why he would inject him. I wonder if it's online. We looked, and it was not. They don't know exactly what it is. It may be lost to. That would be my guess. Because that makes the most sense, because he would inject himself, and then they would all be connected by the brains. Then why doesn't that happen?

Doesn't it? Yeah, what happens to John Pan? He just kind of freaks out. He's just kind of in the red light, like, flipping out. But I think they could have cut that out. Maybe it was that the other stuff he's been taking, whatever speed that is. You think there's maybe some... They didn't mix well. Well, he's been up for many a day. It's like taking a Xanax and a Valium, like, you can't do that. Exactly, just like...

So he's been up for a while. Now, here's... So, basically, everyone's dead. It leads off to the final face-off between the man and the monkey. And you think it's tense. You think it's a tense moment. Until the monkey pisses on Alan. And I want to play this. This is my favorite monologue. It's what I've been leading up to the entire time. This is the pissing on Alan. Here we go. Get away from me! Get away from me! That's the piss.

You slime. You slime? You filth. I'm gonna take you apart. I'm gonna rip your fucking eyes out. I'm gonna tear you open and chew out your fucking heart.

So basically, this monkey has killed his mother, his friends, he's killed everyone, and then when the monkey pisses on him, that is the breaking point. This is what I want to do. I want to pull all the music out. I want to pull everything out. I want utter silence, and then urine. I just want to hear the stream of urine on him. And then the best... Well, that's what's also, by the way, disturbing about this movie. You slime. You filth. It's like a Brett Gelman character. That's what's disturbing.

That woman, Mel, like, she's somebody who, like, loves monkeys and is rescuing monkeys or whatever she's doing. It's like, they're acting as though Ella's this way just because she's this way. Like, clearly something's very wrong with this animal. He is the animal. Right, but I'm saying, like, everybody should be alerted and people should be... Who? The authorities? Yeah.

Who would you call? Well, he's always trying to get people to do it. Animal control. Some people are behaving as though this monkey is just a terrible. Well, no, they keep trying to tell John Pankow we have to do something. He keeps being like, I can handle it. I can handle it. Remember the monkey like slashes his hand with a razor? Yeah. And he's like, I got it. I got it. I guess what I'm saying is just it's not the monkey's fault that the monkey is this way. Okay. You're such a monkey, Apollo. Yeah, you really are. Look at me, June. The monkey is a murderer.

The monkey killed Maggie from Northern Explosion. June is not making eye contact with Jason right now, and she's just drawing on the table. I will tell you this much, but this is the best ending of all movie. Like, of any movie monkey death, any serial killer death at the end of a movie, the man then pulls a Mike Tyson and chomps into the monkey. Because his only hand... His only weapon. And he just...

basically just bites into the monkey's neck and just whips it back and forth like a rag doll which it probably is and that's he basically kills the monkey by ripping into its neck

I mean, I laughed so hard. Because he's so fucking hard at that. What you have to understand, though, is that his mouth can bring pleasure or pain. That's true. And basically, you don't want to. Thank God. What's her face? Didn't see it. Mel didn't see it because she might never. They would never have sex again. By the way, this photo of him having brain surgery, he's wide awake for. Yes. Yes.

So that defeats Jason's theory. That's how all brain surgeries are. By the way, you can see the photo on Earwolf.com. It's fine that he's having brain surgery this way. It's just if he's awake, he knew exactly what was happening between him and the monkey. Yeah, that's true. I don't know then. That brain surgery picture brings up a lot of questions.

And he calls the monkey fuckface. So anyway, guys, he killed... He swears like a child writes every other swear word. Yes. It's like some of them are just like, you fucking cunt.

And then some of them are like, you slime. You piece of rotten trash. Oh, yeah, right. Yeah, right. It keeps it clean. It keeps it clean. Obviously, we had an opinion about this movie. But there are some people who had a second opinion. These are second opinions. From top to bottom, crazy movies are fun.

Here we go. These are second opinion. Do we still do second opinion songs? We do. Guys, why don't people send us more second opinion songs? You can send us a second opinion song. We'll put it right in the show. That's it. Now, there are only four. Four. Total? Four five-star reviews of this movie. Wow. Total. This is a big, this rarely happens. One person, Charlie Tipson, just wrote the poem that's on the poster, which if you have not heard the poem on the poster. No.

Once there was a man whose prison was a chair. The man had a monkey. They made the strangest pair. The monkey loved the man. He climbed inside his head. And now, as fate would have it, one of them is dead. That's on the movie poster. It is? Yes, that's the rhyme. You know how we're going to sell this movie? Poetry. Now, by the way, just an interesting thing. That's a five-star review, and that's the only review that Charlie Tipson ever posted. Okay, here's some Monkey Shen reviews.

From a purely animal training perspective, this movie is brilliant. Romero did a great job directing these six 10-pound capuchin monkeys to look like one monkey did the job. Much harder than Lassie and Flipper, the editing was very slick. Watch the movie from a technical POV and see if you can find the different monkey faces, bodies, and puppets used in the more intense scenes. I trained them all, and I was very proud of this film.

But I gotta say, that's also the problem I have with them crediting only one monkey because it's a sort of, it's not about. It's a group effort. Well, no, it's not even that it's a group effort. I trained them all. It makes this one monkey, it makes us think that like one of these monkeys could go crazy at any given time. Like monkeys could be murderers or there's like some danger as opposed to what happened, which is that he's been completely fucked up by people and human beings. Yeah.

Wait, the monkey actor or the monkey in the movie? No, just the monkey character. But I'm saying by only crediting one monkey, it makes us think that there's...

This is uncomfortable because I think what you're doing, June, is you're filibustering. Because June's going to be releasing a monkey podcast on Earwolf. It's just in support of monkeys. Monkey rights. Monkey rights. And I feel like you're using this as a soapbox right now. And we want to stick to what we're talking about. I do want to ask. You understand. Yeah.

So you would rather that the part of Ella had been credited to six monkeys? Yes. So that we understand that one single monkey could not have done this performance. Because that's impossible. No. Because the performance is too nuanced? No, that's not what I'm saying. Oh. Wait, but I don't understand. I'm saying there was never a point in this movie where it seemed to me that the blame was put on John Pankow and that the...

- Oh, blame. It seemed like the movie was really blaming Ella and creating this sort of psycho monkey. And my point is, there is no psycho monkey. The monkey's being a monkey. - But the monkey's not even being a monkey. - Well, the monkey's not being a monkey, you're right. But the monkey was being a monkey until it was injected by this horrible thing by a human being. And so by crediting one single monkey,

were sort of led to believe like, oh, they're... Or were kind of misdirected into thinking one monkey did that whole role and there is this like monkey playing this character where it's... The truth of it is there were several monkeys just...

being trained to do these things. But wait, wait, wait. You think that the people are going to leave the theater blaming the monkey? Wait, that's your takeaway? It's subtle, but it's like... We got to get rid of Boo the monkey. The monkey is too dangerous. It knows too much. It's too smart. He's an actor. But by the way, I looked in his IMDb. He did not work again. Boo the monkey? Yeah, Boo the monkey has an IMDb page. Now, but wait, June.

What is your... Wait. So you think... It's a subtle point, but I'm just saying... It's a subtle point for us. I don't even understand it. For the movie. I don't understand it. For us. Because I think it's dangerous to put this idea out there that animals or one single animal could just go crazy when...

Especially in the context of this movie, there were horrible experiments done by people to animals. Right. And the animals behaved accordingly because of these experiments. I don't think anybody is saying, though, that the monkey was typecast because it is a murderous animal.

No, but what I'm saying is when you just credit... Charlize Theron isn't a serial killer, but we credit her for playing Eileen Wuornos. Fine, but when you just credit one monkey, it sort of perpetuates that idea a little bit. Okay, let me ask you... Wait, wait, wait. That's how I'm asking you. I have a real question. No, I don't even understand this. I have a real question. I have a very, very real question. Now, if I were to show you the movie...

Okay. Okay? And I was to credit the lead character, James Bond, to Daniel Craig. But all of the major stunt work and stunt scenes was done by a number of other men who handled all of that. Would you have the same problem?

That's a great question. Thank you so much. I pride myself on my questions. Well, I'm going to swing it back around. Also, Skyfall on Blu-ray. I'm going to bring it around to something a little bit more. I think you maybe appreciate this more. Friday the 13th. Oh, yeah. Jason. Now, that's a bad guy because James Bond is a good guy, right? Sure, great. So Jason obviously is played by multiple stuntmen, right, at certain points. Yeah.

So now, but we credit one person as the lead, Jason. Whenever a stuntman is used, I guess my question is, do you feel like the stuntman should be credited? That's a good question. You think because they're a villain, we should say, hey, look, not one person is capable of all this villainy. No, I think June is speaking to the inherent innocence of the animal and that we... That's exactly right. And that we are... That the movie... I can't believe we're doing this. And that the movie...

Is predicated on the idea that the monkey is itself the threat when in reality humanity is the threat because we are poisoning – We've created this murderous monkey. Yes, we created them. Yes. I think that that is true. I think that – like I think John Pankow is held to –

But at the end scene, the final scene of this horror film is Alan taking that monkey and fucking beating it to death. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. That monkey did arguably nothing wrong. Except evolve. Yes. Right. Yes. So I have a problem with that. I don't disagree. Yeah. But it's an act. It's an act. I guess what I'm saying, I have a problem with that overall. And I think by only crediting one monkey –

It sort of weirdly perpetuates that idea. That's like, hmm, I guess. I have a hard time getting on. I can't get on this thing. I don't know. The point where you're talking about credits is where I fall apart. This is like, I guess, yeah. I understand that you want to blame humanity for the ills that it rains down upon the animal population.

the animals in this movie. Yes, I do. There needs a comeuppance. There's no comeuppance for... But that's in the movie. I agree with you. But why does... Why do the sag-carrying, card-carrying monkeys have to be called out? Why can't Boo at least get credit for being in this terrible movie? I guess because... And it's a very subtle point, but I ask you to listen to it. Oh, boy. It's because...

There was not one singular monkey playing that role. There were a bunch of monkeys. And they are monkeys. They are primates. Sure. Okay? Thank you. Thank you.

Okay, so all of them are monkeys? Yes, all of them are monkeys. Because I thought some might be cute. I guess what I'm saying is by giving that monkey even a name, I have to say, even a name like, what's the name? Boo? Boo the actor? Yes, Boo the actor. It's like, they're not actors. They're monkeys. How dare you?

They're primates. This is so controversial. I am so confused about what is happening right now. I will give you the end of the movie. To be fair, I did three years at the Actors Workshop with an orangutan. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Who was... Teacher or fellow student? No, student. Okay, good. We were in Death of a Salesman together. Oh my gosh, I would love to have seen that. I played Biff, he played Hap. Oh my gosh.

Okay. I will give you the end, and maybe this will add fuel to you. The alternate ending of the movie, the original darker ending, features researchers packing up trucks with dozens of little Ellas going off to work as helper monkeys.

So I guess the end is that they're all out there to commit murder? Well, this movie... But I don't even understand how that's possible. The new Planet of the Apes reboots. Yeah, which I think are very good. Yeah, I do too. Kind of play in this same sandbox a little bit of the natural evolution of primates into...

you know, more communicative, more socialized, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I feel like this just is so confusing. But what I still can't figure out is why the actor monkey is coming under fire from you. Because the actor monkey has no idea it's an actor, right? It's just... I don't know. Have you seen Boo's Instagram? By the way, that's what makes me uncomfortable. It's too many selfies. Because I feel like it's sort of us projecting our own feelings about...

It's making Boo a person when Boo is, at the end of the day, a monkey. But what do you want out of this? I guess my question is... Boo isn't a person. Don't you think that if it had six people listed in the credits, what would the difference be? Well, we'll be six monkeys, not people. All right. Okay, wait a minute. You just don't want Boo. I don't even really want Boo to have a name, to be honest. Do you think there's another monkey that is like, fuck, Boo got the credit? No.

No, I just think it's... Okay, here's my point. It's dangerous. It really is actually very dangerous to personify and to project all these things onto animals when we should be treating them responsibly. Like garbage. I just don't understand...

Man. Like the primate garbage. By only listing one actor, I think it just, it's not, that's not the hugest, you know, grievance I have with this, but it's a tiny part of what I think is a big problem in this movie. I have no problem agreeing with you on the fact that

The villain of the movie is, though through misguided, helpful attempt, John Pankow. And as a result, Stephen Root as well, who is John Pankow's boss. Because they are the ones conducting these experiments on these monkeys to try and make them smarter. So that science...

And our quest for, you know, to gain more knowledge and push whatever forward, that is the villain in an interesting way. Why not?

But, and you're right, nobody's ever really called to task for it. But listen, Boo the actor is just out there with his head shot trying to get jobs, finally gets a job. I don't know why he has to do that. So do you think that the monkey, all right, so do you think the same thing goes down for that Matt LeBlanc movie, Ed, where he's the baseball player. Animal practice. That's the TV show. This is, it's called, I think it's Ed. Yep.

So basically, the monkey or the monkey MVP most valuable primate, the hockey monkey movie, that they should be listed as... Hockey monkey. Hockey monkey. They should be listed as multiple... I guess what I'm saying is I think we need to be reminded, I think it's actually dangerous. How? You've said that a couple of times now. What is the danger? Well...

What is going on? What is the danger? It's the same problem I have with people being like, oh, those bear attacks and bears are attacking people. It's like, well, no. Actually, campers are leaving food and bears are being bears. Yeah, that's true. It goes to that point. Okay, but here's the thing. Those bears are attacking those people in the real world. This is a wormhole.

It's not a movie about bears. I feel like I'm the sober person at a party where there is like a really intentional guy. Now you listen to me. You know. I'm trying to get in there. What is happening? Because the problem is we think...

This is the problem, actually. We think bears shouldn't attack and that we've evolved past it and we should be able to camp wherever we want. Who thinks that? A lot of people think that. Nobody thinks that. A lot of people think that. Nobody thinks that bears have evolved past the point of attacking. Okay. Nobody thinks that. But this is the danger. This is the danger in showing animals in movies and portraying them as boo the friendly, you know,

friendly monkey who's playing this part it's like well wait a second no he didn't grow up to be an actor he was born to be a monkey and that's it and we like putting monkeys in little suits and sort of okay but the monkey doesn't wear a suit in this movie just as a disclaimer if people are like I want to see a monkey in a suit so a bunch of monkeys shines there is no suit as a matter of fact the beginning of the movie puts that disclaimer out there like this is a real thing this is how monkeys act here's the problem I have with the credits

Wow, wow, June, June. Here's what I have with the credits. That credit. Ha ha ha!

That credit is for us humans to watch and go, isn't that cute? Okay. Boo the monkey played that part. Isn't that cute? And my problem with that is that Boo the monkey has no fucking clue that he's an actor, that he has a credit in this movie. What about children? I have a problem with that. Okay. Okay.

Okay, do you think, so if I'm hearing you right, I think you can sum up your point by saying in regards to the monkeys in this movie, be a monkey.

just be a monkey. I'm calling back be a man. Wait, though. I think I get what you're saying. I don't. I do not. I don't think it's dangerous, though. You don't? I don't think it's dangerous because I don't know who the danger who is the danger who for whom is their danger. I think for

- I think for all of us. - For humanity? - Yes, I do. - Do you think that the monkeys are gonna feel like boo? - No, but I think the test of humanity is really how we treat and take care of the weakest. And I would say that-- - But that's what the monkey is trained for. - You learn a lot about a people by how they treat animals.

animals. Sure. This show took a real turn. You learn a lot. Okay. Well, let me just go to another. This is a fictional movie. This is not a documentary. That's what I'm saying. This movie is not a documentary. It is not a documentary, but monkeys are in this movie accidentally.

Sure. Well, they're doing a good job. This is amazing. Well, look, why don't we all just be like beautiful 1965 on Amazon who just said, finish watching this movie with my mother and nephew. And I got to say, we were entertained. The character Ella the monkey was off the chain. We were all scared of the things that Ella did in the movie.

Now that person seemed to really like Ella. Off the chain. Oh, man. Well, June, we'll get to your thoughts more on your podcast, Monkey Shines Podcast, where it's monkey business about monkeys. It's called This is Dangerous.

I think I have made my point, though. I think you did. I think we definitely made it. Really? No reason to continue to belabor it. And to be honest, I didn't know I felt that strong. I was going to say, I watched this movie with you. You did not show any signs of this. Until just now, but...

Question for all of you. I think we know where June stands. Would you recommend watching this? It's on Netflix. It's free. Jason? I mean, if you want, maybe start an hour in. And by the way, can I say one more thing? Oh, my God. I do know that no monkeys were harmed during the filming of this movie. And I actually did appreciate the disclaimer because I needed it. But, like, I do get that there are. Because I needed it. What?

That there are people on set and that animals are treated very well. June. In quotations, yeah. If the part of Ella had been credited to six monkeys, okay? It would have helped me. Would it have been as dangerous? I don't understand that. Would it have been as dangerous a piece of film? This movie appears to be like almost like... Do you feel like it's...

Like, it's going to incite something? Or is it dangerous for humanity? I think it is a little dangerous. Okay, so if it had been like... I think it is a little dangerous. Okay, now let me ask you this. If the credits had been Ella played by Boo, Mickey, Minnie, Reynolds, blah, blah, blah. Or would that have been dangerous? What if Boo was played by Monkey 1, Monkey 2, Monkey 3? So the monkeys aren't even given names because they're just goddamn monkeys. No, it's not that they're just goddamn monkeys. It's that they're just monkeys.

So wait, but what's the... Distill... Please distill this point. What does that mean? Like, you just don't want monkeys to be in movies. Did you have this problem? Oh, no, that was not a monkey. That was a person in a suit. But here's my question, though. Should children not be in movies, too? Because they don't... Babies? Yeah, babies. What about a baby in a... Oh, what about a baby in a movie? Well, but you guys... My bigger problem, the reason why this has all come up is because humanity and science never got any sort of...

We weren't reprimanded at all for these horrible things that we did to this monkey in the context of the movie. And that's a big problem, and I do think that's dangerous. We just made the monkey out to be—we're supposed to be cheering when that monkey is killed. This, again, is not a documentary, though. This is like to say, like, I feel bad for Leatherface.

He's killing all these people. But, like, not a lot of people know, like, Leatherface had it tough. Like, circumstances created Leatherface that made him a terrible murderer. Well, I choose to believe that. Jason Voorhees. That. Freddy Krueger. Humans have a lot more free will. And there are. When you take a helpless little monkey who's in a lab and start doing horrible. I agree with that. Sure. Horrible experiments on them. Like, I think that, you know, the scientist is at fault, not this monkey. Yeah.

But what about if those experiments yield real, like, actionable advances in medicine? All right. Well. Or better cosmetics. I do not believe in testing on animals. Okay. Well, we got that. I do not believe in testing on animals. So, June, would you recommend? That's where we're at. That's where we're at. You would not. We finally got to the main point.

Wow, wow, wow. That was a wormhole unlike any. That was one of the most satisfying things that's ever happened on this show. You, June, do you recommend watching this movie? I know what your answer is going to be. There's some crazy stuff in this movie, and I think...

after you've listened to the podcast and you want to watch it sure that's fine but I mean I just think keep in mind what I've said yeah okay well don't get back into it I think we got it it's also very long it's too long it's so long to watch but there are some fast forward through it but there are some amazing laughs I enjoyed the first part of

Which makes no sense. I know Jason. That's the part that makes no sense to me. I would say there are some amazing lines, some really crazy things. I laughed very hard. Sometimes when we watch a bad movie, it's like, oh, getting through it. But there are some pretty amazing things in that first hour, I think. I'm recommending it. Guys, we did it. We always do it. We'll continue to do it. Thank God. Thank you to everyone that is here. Anyone have anything they want to promote?

I'll give another shout out to the guy that made the Daredevil t-shirt. What's his name? Harrison Hendricks. No, his name is Harrison Freeman. Harrison Freeman. So you can get our How Did This Get Made t-shirt. Get them quick because we're going to have a new one coming up for Christmas time. And... Oh...

I want to thank Averill Haley who pulls all of our clips. I want to thank Nick Kiley who does all of our research. Leanna Waldron who does all of our amazing graphic design. Our engineer, Brett. Thank you to the monkeys who were in this movie. Well, they weren't here today. And most of them due to life expectancy are dead. Yeah.

So enjoy that. Think about that at work. Thank you, dead monkeys, for bringing us the joy that we experienced. Please someone have a poster with June and Boo on it and get that out there for animal rights. And with the tagline, this is dangerous.

You can follow us on Twitter. Oh, yes. We have a Twitter account. It's at HDTGM. We update it all the time. And by the way, the new Fast and Furious poster came out. I saw it. It's called Furious. And if you guys want to Photoshop all our heads and add him Scott into that, I would enjoy that. Make us real happy. Yeah. All right. We'll see you next time. Bye-bye. I'm just going to be here now.

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