Dry January has come and gone, but the conversation about alcohol—and rethinking our relationship with it—is still very much with us. This week’s listener, Natalie, wants to move past the abundance vs. abstinence debate and talk about a third option: thoughtful moderation. In this episode, Courtney Martin brings on journalist Rosamund Dean, author of Mindful Drinking: How Cutting Down Can Change Your Life and Well, Well, Well, a Substack about living better, for longer. She shares how she found moderation through mindfulness—and how you can too.

If you or someone you know is struggling with excessive drinking, consider contacting SAMHSA’s National Helpline at 1-800-662-HELP. You can also find a local Alcoholics Anonymous meeting by visiting aa.org.

If you liked this episode, check out: How To Stick to Your New Year’s Resolutions

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How To Be a Mindful Drinker