GUEST SERIES | Dr. Andy Galpin: How to Build Physical Endurance & Lose Fat
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Welcome to the huberman lab guest series where I and an expert guest discuss science and science space tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew huberman and am a professor of neurobiology and opto ology at stanford school of medicine. Today's episode is the third in the six episode series on fitness, exercise and performance.

Today's episode is all about endurance and fat loss, that is, the specific protocols required to achieve the four different kinds of endurance and how to maximize fat loss. Doctor and open, great to be back today. They we're going to talk about endurance.

And i'm very interested in this conversation because I, like many other people, strive to get a certain amount of cardiovascular work in each week, maybe a long ish jog, maybe a swim, right the bike and seta. But when I think about the word endurance, the idea that almost immediately comes to mind is about doing something for a long period of time, repeatedly. But I have a feeling that there are other ways to trigger this adaptation that we call the entrance adaptation.

I'm excited to learn about that. I'm also excited to learn about the fuel systems in the body that allow for endurance and other modes of repeated activity. So in order kick things off, I love you frame the conversation by telling us what is endurance, and are there indeed a large variety of ways to induce what we call this endless adaptation?

sure. The way I want to start actually here, OS, is calling back to some of the things we talked about, our previous conversations, which are really, people have exercise for three reasons. Number one, you want to feel Better.

Number two, you want to look a certain way. And the number three, you want to people to do that for a long time, right? So you need the way that we say in sports is look good, feel good, play good, right?

So I want some sort of functionality to build to perform a certain way, whatever that is for you. You want to be able to look a certain way that whatever that matters for you, then you wanna to do that for a long time. So when IT comes to endurance, we have a bunch of mno mercier, which is the same thing with the strength training, a resistance exercises side.

We wanted to dispell the Smith that I lift weights only because I I want to gain muscle or play a sport, and I want to do cardio because I want to lead the lose fat or for a long, healthy. And just like we smash that myth from the strengthened wing side, I want to smash IT from the enduring, straining side. There are so many other reasons that you want to perform and dance training regardless of your goal, right? Whether that is longevity, whether that is performance or whether that is atheists.

And so we're going I want to cover all those reasons um exactly what to do protocols, of course, and why those things are working that way. In general, though, the quick answer is really endurance comes out to two independent factors. Factor number one is fatigue management and the factor number two is fueling, and that's all that really comes down to. So all the different types of training are going to reach a limitation, which are either, again, your ability to deal with some sort of fatigue and that's generally a fatigue signal. The other one is managing some sort of restriction of energy input. And a lot the smother here is a lot of the times people think it's a fuelling issue and really it's a fatigue management issue or the upset and to have a complete health spectrum, regardless of whether you're a high performance athletic, I typically deal with or general public, you need to be able to do both managed fatigue as well as understand fuel storage. So that's really what we're going to get into today.

fantastic. I can't wait before we dive in. I'm going to ask you what I often ask people who are expert in their respective fields, which is, is there any non obvious tool or mechanism or to lend mechanism that can allow people to access Better endurance? When I think about training for endurance, again, I think about trying to run longer and longer. Each week, we're swim further and further and so on. But I do wonder whether there are other forms of training that can amplify the entrance adaptation that I or most people perhaps don't think of as in dance.

sure. The way I want to answer this is if we look back and think about how we ve answered that question with power and strength and force production IT is really about how much can you produce maximum once. What you're asking now is how can I repeat that same quality of performance if that's the case? And dance really comes down to your ability to maintain proper mechanics.

That's going like the biggest way we can in increase your enterance expensively very quickly is mechanical. And this is starting with breathing. And so we need to be breathing properly. We need to have proper posture positions, and then we need to be moving well. Efficiency is going to trump force, always foreigners.

The other side of equation is not that you can have a little bit of leaks in your mechanics and still squat well or jump high and be fine because you don't have to suffer those concerns repeatedly, right? That's going to drain you over time. So h, the quickest way to improve nurse is to improve mechanics and mechanical thing I go after. First is your breathing techniques, your pattern, your entire approach, as well as your posture. And then from there, the third one would be your movement technique.

Is IT possible to describe the best way to breathe when doing in dance training? Or is IT far more complex than that? And if IT is far more complex than that, than certainly we can get into IT during today's episode?

Yeah, IT is both of those. I will give you quick cancer though a lot of the times you can kind of hit the cheat code, which is nazar breathing. There is plenty of times when you don't want a nail bri, don't need to nazi's.

But just again, is that like a one tool that is a for pretty general answer? If you can do that, a lot of the times that will fix with the mechanics just by default in and we can maybe talk about why that is later. But that would be mine sort of one certain bullett answer immediately of how to get the right position. The second one would be simply looking at your posture, right? So whether you're on a bike or you're doing a lift or you're running, if you're literally a hunched over and your ribs are touching your fever or getting closer and closer like tends to happen on a bike or assault thing for somebody you've seen .

recently this morning I was on the assault bike doing sprint um and I asked andy doctor job in to critical my form and anything else you want to critical so that I could improve and he did comment on my rather sea shaped posture and encourage me to be more upright, which I should probably do now as well. And he also killed me to the fact that during a one minute sprint there is something that is good and quote, magic that happens right about the forty second mark and I use that as a as a milestone um to look for an indeed something does happen at the four seconds into a one minute sprint where also IT does to get much easier for a reason I understand maybe can tell that but I certainly had nothing to do with my posture. My posture .

needs improvement. Yes well yeah. So um breathing mechanics and breathing strategies, uh, people tend to be over breathing early on, and this is going to lead to problems later. So having a more strategic breathing pattern h an approach IT is again a very quick solution.

I know that we are going to die very deep into the mechanisms of energy metabolism and endurance today. But as long as we're having a discussion about these um brief or take bits of how to improve endurance, are there any other ways to improve endurance that are of relatively short time investment even if they require a lot of energy?

sure. The classic paradigm going to find here is steady state longer ation post up against what a lot of folks will not call higher intensity interval training specifically. And there's a lot of misconception. The quick answer is you need to be doing both.

And there's probably a bunch of stuff in between that you should be practicing if you honestly want to maximize those three factory we talked about at the beginning, you need to be training across this full Price trum, just like I told you, to training across the full SE spectrum of your lifting. We want to be doing the same thing here. So are there independent special factors that, that can happen with the shorter time length, higher intensities of? absolutely.

There's also magic that happens on the other into that spectrum. So it's very important that people don't just choose one side because what tends to happen as people either go with the all in to do to thirty or forty five minutes of study state stuff that's IT or i'm going to do the opposite, which i'm going to lead that stuff on the table, not do IT because I only want to do high intensity innovations because I can get IT done in five minutes. So there's magic on both sides of equation.

We want to get into all that. But just to answer your question directly, there's a whole bunch of of things you can do um in under one minute um that are convenient to do. And there's A A A wonderful set of papers um out of a couple laboratories in canada that that champion this idea that called exercise snacks.

So there's a bunch that there's a series of studies have been done here that are really interesting and that they have looked at a couple of things that are not worthy. One of them is a twenty second bouts of all outward, and this has actually done in workers in an office. And so what they have them do is run upstairs.

And I believe IT was about sixty steps is what I took them something along the order of twenty seconds exactly and they repeated that um about once every four hours. So really is you go to work, you get put coffee in your back down whatever, you run up a flight of stairs twenty seconds later than you go right back to work at lunch and before you go home, you just repeat there. Um and if you repeat that, that's multiple times a week, you going to do that.

I think they in more the intervention cy was three times a week for six weeks, eighteen total times you did that. And what you'll see is um uh a noticeable improvement is is statistically significant proveth in party respiratory fitness, specifically view two max as well as a number of cognitive benefits, work productivity at sector that can happen in as little as twenty seconds. You don't have to go to the gym, you don't have to shower, you don't have to do anything like that.

Define the stairs. Um run up and down them a few times now you may have noticed um you actually sort of caught me yesterday. I did that right here, right? I was just I we had a little bit of break. I was feeling an energy law. I ran up the stair three or four times, felt a lot Better.

So that can actually also help them another study when they looked at that following a giant high glycemic meal and what they saw and then they took kindlin measures and and a whole bunch of um other biological markers associated that you want to be paid tension with the high glycemic index meal and they looked at those immediately an hour, three hours, six hours as opposed and IT was very clear that same in intervention was able to improve post plan deal lugo's control instant and a hole on to other factors um in addition, so if you are the sort of type OS like wow i'm in an office all day, maybe also had a giant uh high glasseous index meal. Not the best approach, but a little bit mitigation there can just be running up of latest stairs or doing something like that for the little as twenty seconds. So there's a lot of magic and power in maximum exertion if .

one does not have access to a flight of stairs at work. Could they do jumping?

jack? absolutely. I mean, you could do anything you really wanted.

Um it's not the mode of exercise that matters here. IT is simply the exertion. Um you'd get up as as hard as you can.

You can do burpy. You can do any number of things. Um you can sprint down your road, down the hallway, back and forth. Um the motives is just a something that was easy for the scientists to control and x number of steps people could do IT to fall hurt yourself, things like that.

Just to remind me, it's once every four hours, one minute of all twenty six, excuse me, twenty seconds of essentially all loud exertion but while remaining safe, not going so fast up the stairs are doing job.

jack so not down the stairs up the first place .

um escalators don't count what I was the count of there. If you're moving, if you're not remaining on the same steps, um in fact, in an airport recently, I saw somebody walking against the the convey yeah while talking on the phone, while waiting for their flight to take off and I got is genius right? They look a little .

awwad .

who cares yeah but IT was I have looked .

awkward in every airport i've been for the last fifteen years for those exact redoing wild stuff like that.

Well, nothing's more awwad than not being able to walk to the end of the terminal simply because one isn't familiar with walking that far, Carrying a couple of suitcases. Yeah, that's the other fit test, this, this case Carrier. Yeah, in the airport.

Now, I love this. So once every four hours, twenty seconds, so maybe once went arriving to work once four hours in, and then four hours, I must be our prior work somewhere. You know eight plus minus two hours.

Now one thing actually really want to make clear because your audience is so incredible um they tend to to be really excited about these protocols and they follow them exactly as written. That's not exactly science works. So IT doesn't necessarily have to be every four hours as a half, three three times a day, then have to be twenty seconds.

They literally built that protocol because I was through you trying to replicate a realize scenario. Maybe you're an office building. You're generally there for eight hours.

Let's see if you did one every sort of a um so if you want to do with four times a week, great. If you can do only ten seconds, amazing like you're probably going to get the same benefits. Those are not the details to pay attention to.

The details to pay attention to is every so often, multiple times a day, try to get your heart rate up really quickly, doesn't require sweating, doesn't require anything else, is a warm up associated with IT. And again, you need a minute brick in between meetings or whatever, and you can sprint up them. I do this all the time in my house when you you know have those days when you're unlike seven straight hours assumes and etra, you can get out of twenty seconds. I run in my garage, which is over there, I hope on the the airbag and I will just smash out thirty seconds as fast I can and then walk right back and love IT. Yeah, i'm going to start.

yeah. Just also you can .

just talk on those things, which I D A also just put one in your office and open the whole entire thing now, literally take twenty three seconds.

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Again, that's drink element L M N T doc com slash huberman in to claim a free sample pack. So tell me about endurance. What is endurance? How do I get more endurance? And how does IT .

work when we think about endurance? I would like to open up the conversation to include more things than people generally do when they hear the word. And so if we just think about what you typically ask your body to do, or would like to ask your body to do, and we just walk through them, it's gonna things like this.

Number one, I want to have energy throughout the day that's actually form of endurance. great. I don't want to have these laws and fatigue.

And I want to feel fantastic as I move throughout my activities of daily living, whatever those may be, work, exercise, enjoyment, paying attention, focus all that up. great. That's one thing.

Another thing you want to ask your body to do is I want to be able to repeat some small effort in a muscle group and not, and feel great about that. This is what we generally call muscular and dirt. So this is something like, I want to be able to walk up those ten flights of steps.

And my quotes aren't burning at the end of IT, right? Or IT even gives me energy. Another thing you want to ask your body to do is to be able to perform a tremendous amount of work for a longer period of time, something in the realm of, you know, twenty to eighty seconds.

So this could be something like if you're surfing, you have got a pat al, extremely hard for a minute to get on on top of a wave. Or you want got you are out writing your bike and you need to build to get up a hill, and it's a very steep help. These are going to take maximum efforts and for some small amount of time, and then you get back up there.

We tend to call that maximum anoroc capacity. So the max amount of work you can perform at a high rate for some amount of seconds to like maybe a minute past that is your ability to repeat. And after a kinder like that, for something like five to fifteen minutes, and this is example, would be run a mile right? Some some interval like that, which is a longer distance, right? Um that is gonna a maximum of robot capacity.

Another thing you're going to want your body. As we call sustained position. So this is you want to be able to sitting your chair of work and have perfect posture for twenty, thirty, forty minutes, right?

You want to be able to stand in line at a grocery store for fifteen minutes and not have a break down on posture. So you want to be able to maintain position when you're riding your bike. You're not collapse and you're doing any of these activities and you don't get hurt or lose efficiency simply because you couldn't sustain basic positions, whatever those shapes and positions seem to be.

And then the last one is A A maximum distant. So you only be able to go for a longer hike or have just a long day at dizzy land for whatever that needs to be and feel great at the end of IT, right? So the goal with all of these things is not can you just do them, but can you do them and then you feel good afterwards.

So we're back in the right position where they give you energy, you feel good about IT, and it's not just something you had to do and you regret IT and you felt off. So those the factors I think about when someone says I want Better endurance is I I want to walk backwards is okay when you say and dance, what do you mean? And that's generally the things i've come across this. If you can handle all those things, you're going to feel like you're in fantastic shape. You're going to feel your recoveries is going to be excEllent and your physical performance in the gym or in any disorders tiv ties you do .

will be enhanced given what you told us a little bit earlier that endurance really reflects fatigue management and energy production, how do each and both of those things relate to endure at a mechanistic level? Really, what i'm asking is what is fatigue management and what is energy production .

in order to do that is important that we understand all of those functional capacities that I just talked about. They all have different points of failure, okay? So in order to then work backwards and say, well, how do I optimize my performance and all those categories, we need to go through each one to figure out where are my fAiling.

Some of them are gonna be fAiling because of fatigue management, and some of them will be fAiling because of energy production. So if we walk through a little bit of how we make energy and how we handle fatigue, then we're going to have a Better understanding exactly what to do for each of these categories. If you feel like one, them in particular is worse for you, are lagged behind or if, in general, you just want to improve all of them.

All right now, I want to make a little bit of a nine degree turn here. I want to do a strategy, though, I promise. And I want to ask you a very simple question, how do you lose weight?

I was taught that the calories in, calories out, thermal dynamics of energy utilization, governs most everything. That is, if i'm ingesting less coLoring energy than I burn, then i'm going to lose weight. And if i'm interesting exactly as much as I burn, maintain way, and if I just more than I burn, then i'll gain weight.

sure. That is the approach you would take. What i'm asking really is how you actually physically losing the weight.

So my understanding is that we have different fuel sources in the body glia gen, which is stored muscle and liver body fat, which is a mainly White at a post tissue and which is subcutaneous, and around our organs, introversion fat, and that we can also use protein as a fuel. And then, as I recall, there is also a forever creating system. And I think you're going to tell me that each of these systems is tapped into on different times skills and perhaps according to different level of exertion. And i'm certain that what I just said is not exhaustive, but hopefully this is most or entirely correct, pretty correct.

What's I got to do with that loss?

At some point, body fat stores at atop sites, fat cells are going to start liberating fat as a fuel source. And the stimulus for that, i'm assuming, is going to be that other fuel sources are either depleted or that the energy metals c systems of the body, I don't want to decide because they don't have their own consciousness, are um are flip, is are signaling in a way that registered res that body fat would be the optimal fuel source given how long or and or intensely a given activity has been performed.

Okay, we have some stuff to clean up there, but we're still not really answer ing the question how am I actually losing that body .

fat ah how is that actually leaving the body? correct? Uh, my understanding is that IT leaves the body through repetition .

so now we have some interesting things to talk about how am I actually losing fat via aspiration? What they hold that even mean, how is something that occupy this physical space on the side of me leaving my body through my mouth? And there is a very clear answer, they are right, which i'm i'm sure you're cute up to when you take a breath in, you're generally breathing in oxygen, oh, to some other things, but was a stick when you x hail, you're breathing out CEO to the difference between those two is that carbon molecule? Well, one of the things that important understand here is all of your carbohydrate, which is those that word itself, as a carbon that has been hydrated, so as a carbon molecule attached to a water molecule, IT is a simple chain of carbon.

Your fat molecules are also chain of carbon. All of metabolism, really, in terms of energy production, is simply trying to figure out a way to break those carbon bonds. As a result, we get energy from that.

We use that energy to create a molecule called A T P, which is the central source of energy for any living being, right? That carbon is in floating around the reform, which is bad news internally. So we've got to figure out a way to get that carbon out of our system.

So all of energy production, all of fatigue management really comes down to the core issue of how are we handle carbon and how are we moving around the body. And so what we do is we do this sneaky thing. So another question I like to ask people is, why do we breathe well.

for two reasons, to bring oxygen into the system, into flow carbon to dioxide. But the neural trigger for breathing is when carbon oxide hits a threshold level in the set of neurons in the brain stem and elsewhere activate the french nerve of the gas, reflects our recombination of things and we inhale. Or all right.

So a reduction of oxygen take generally doesn't stimulate veneration unless you're at altitude than that sort of changes, right? In general, it's an elevation in C O two that's going to stimulate breathing up. The only reason you bring in o two, for the most part is to get rid of the sea too.

Oxyde is not a fuel source. IT is not IT works the same with fire, by the way. So you know, you have to have oxyde present for a fire to go.

If you quote ox yen, the fire will go out, right? That's not a half of 嗯 how those like fire exiting uih ers work。 But we think then that means auction is the field.

IT is not the fuel. IT is something entirely different. IT is a necessary is a product that is necessary for the metabolite process to actually call, right?

So we're of dancing around an idea here, which is this carbon cycle of life. So what happens in plants is they generally will breathe in the opposite and breathe out the opposite of human. So a plant will breathe in C O two and X L O two.

This is why we have to have a certain amount of these things and log and forest and trees and stuff to maintain this o two, C O two baLance in our atmosphere. We do the opposite. So we have this wonderful circle of life.

We breathe N O to breath out. C, O, two, they do the opposite. Well, what happens is because carbon hyrax are long chains of carbon, and fats are as well. Generally, when we think about facts, by the way, is important, understand that structure a little bit.

So if we think about triglyph, IT is a three carbon backbone chain of glass are also one, two, three and horizontally running off of each one of those, our fatty acid chains, right? So we formed the structure that looks like an e like letter e three in the back and the three chains coming off of IT. Each of those chains are called fat acids.

And each of those fat acids are a length of carbon, a number of carbon stronger together. However many carbons are there determines which type of file asit is right? So steric acid not like us, like any different number of things.

It's also what determines whether not is a motian sator or polyunsaturated, as if carbon requires a special thing called a double bond. So if there is a oub bond across every carbon carbon, then they're awfully is saturated in your great. If there is anyone that are not double bonded.

In fact, in the example, if there is one that doesn't have a double bond that is now called mono and sator and if there are many, IT is called Polly. And so this process costs all these things, right? In either case, we're still talking long carbon chains.

So what a plant will do is bringing in carbon. And that has this wonderful ability to use energy from the sun called photosynthesis. And IT can take those carbons that IT inhales and use the energy from the sun to form a bond.

Now in our prior discussion, when we are going over hypertext y, we talked about the energy of required to go through protein sentences. That's because forming a new adam h are a new bond between Adams. Often times take energy in these cases, IT does the same thing happens here. So if a plant does not have oxygen or does not have carbon oxide, the air that has no fuel that basically think about IT, is that what he needs, IT needs to get nitrogen from the ground in the soil is like we need to get nitrogen from our protein.

But few lize IT needs to get carbon oxide that needs sun to give its energy so that I can actually form that bond, right? That's what is getting its fuel from, right? So if we think about um a classic uh plant produce the plant that produces either a start or a fruit, here's what happens IT inhales that carbon and and IT starts packing IT away now and I root vegetable.

What IT does is IT stores those things together. And if we store that thing we grow through to the bottom of, we tend to call those things starches. right?

It's going to then take the carbon that is packed away in its route and send IT up the tree. And it's going to actually do that by breaking IT down to a smaller form of carbon hydrate that we tend to often call things like sus in book's. It'll ship that up the tree, it'll go out to the leaves and IT will converted into the fruit.

And it's going to eventually transform that stuff into smaller carbon things called fruit s. And if we think about the fruit, uh, or the sugar in fruit is often in the form of fruit tos or so, grows or accommodation and sometimes school cos. So we have these smaller carbon, six carbon chains, generally in the form of glucose that are being made from this larger storage of a carbon hydrate that we call, start right？ So it's bat together.

Your body does the exact same thing. So if it's a potato and he has a whole bunch of glucose packed away, we call that start. If it's in your quad APP and we pack about a whole bunch of glucose away, we now call IT like a gen.

If it's in your blood as that six carbon chain, we call IT lucas. If it's in the tree and in the fruit, we call the fruit tos, right? Those are different molecules, but that's effectively the same thing happens.

So the biology, the chemistry is almost identical. IT just runs in the reverse order. And that's why, again, tubes and potatoes and stuff tend to be starches, and fruits tend to be looking for those.

So we have this wonderful circle of life. The plants can survive on just breathing in the C. O. Two, and then getting energy from the sun. We don't have that ability, at least to my knowledge, to run through photo sentences.

So the only only way we can get carbon into our system is that actually in just carbon, which means we have to eat the start, the fruit, the animal, some other form of stored carbon, to get that in lower system. We then act that away. We put the carbon hind rates, as you must, nearly either our liver, our blood or in our muscles.

We put the fat, generally in atop st. Tissue, will put a little bit in muscle cells in for muscular truck list rides. And then the protein will use as structure, right, to do different things we don't like to use. Protein is material or a fuel. It's is Better use of structure. And what we have to do then is if all the time we realized that storage is getting too much in our body and the words are gaining too much weight, we have to figure out how to get the carbons out of our body. And that is metabolic, right? Any time we're trying to break a carbon bonds that we can get energy to make ATP, that's going to release the carbon out of our tissue end of the blood, we have to bring in oxygen to bind that carbon molecule, the maxi o, to the next hello and put IT back into .

the atmosphere is a beautiful description of the circle of life and energy utilization in the human body. I have to ask the question that i'm sure many people are wonnerful about, which is if indeed we x hail these carbons.

And as IT relates to fat loss, that is the way that we lose fat if we're in a sub college state, for instance, has IT ever been explored as to whether increasing the duration or intensity of x sales can accelerate that loss? I mean, the logical extension of what you described. And here i'm actually interested uh, equally in whether not the answer is yes as well as whether I could be no because I could imagine if the answer is yes. Well, then there's some interesting protocols to emerge from that but that if it's no IT will revealed to us some important bottle next about metabolic and energy utilization.

Ever seen those magicians like show up, and they can tell your mom's name or something like that before you, because they can sort not to take us .

down a deep dive time. But I want to went to the magic castle in, and I was one of the people called up front, and a an incredible magician I named. I think his name was oz.

Mind or something? I think that's right. Had me write my name on a card, in a sharpie pen.

I ripped up the card. I ripped IT up. I put IT in my pocket.

And at the end of the ten or fifteen minute bout of him doing a bunch of other tricks, he asked me to look in my right shoe. And under my foot, in my right shoe. Was that card in tact? yeah. And IT was no longer in my pocket, and I swear in my life I wasn't a collaborator with, yeah. And to this day I still gives me chills because IT right, I don't know how I magic.

Yeah, right. magic. Well, the reason I say that is i've given that little spill that I just gave you that account less time in my glasses, and I was, say, ninety nine percent of the time as soon as I stop.

The very first question is, so can I just, like, do a bunch of x sales and lose fat, which is wonderful, because I was really hoping you would do that. And you rode right into my trap. You landed perfectly sail. I look like like A A magician here.

I feel like I should look in my right shoe, right? No, I asked the question because it's it's the logical extension of what you laid out. But I know biology to be both a diabolical and cypher, but also exquisite in the way that things arranged and you don't get something for nothing.

There are no free passes in physiology. That's the saying, no free passes. The answer, the question is yes, along one hundred percent yes.

In fact, that is the only way to go about IT. You have two options. You can adjust less carbon or you can excel more carbon.

People always say coLorin colors out. It's really carbon and carbon. That's that's what a calories is, right? Calories in mont energy we get per breaking carbon bond. So it's really less and less more out, less in is fairly obvious whether that comes in an enforcement.

By the way, this is exactly why the percentage of R, N A coming from fans or carbohydrate is said IT doesn't really matter that much if you look at fat loss, a clinical trials. You guys we've covered this when lane was in here. I'm sure like this is something he talks about a lot.

IT doesn't matter. It's irrelevant because it's not about that. There's nothing magic in those things.

They are different. They have different physical gc responses. Everything is different, right? No doubt, but in general is simply about carbon. And take turns out fat has a lot more carbons, permal and carbohydrate do. So there's more calories per mal in there.

So if you the physical amount of a fat needs to come in a smaller amount hydes, these come in as a larger amount, but you can play any number of very high carbon, low fat. What matters? Total caller's.

right? And again, it's not like the only thing that matters you. And some percentages in the way can go. Fat loss works. fantastic.

High fat, low car behind drink. why? why? Why are they all these things work? Because it's not about that.

It's about total intake of carbon, total export. So absolutely. Can you lose fat by simply excelling more? In fact, that is exactly what you did this morning.

is on the dining .

bike when you did anything right. The question is, can you think with scenario in which you could have a bunch of increased rates of acceleration that helps them famous?

sure. Anything of a lot of things is stimulate, increase rates of excEllence.

One thing could be simply going. right. So the questions like, can I literally do some breath protocols where I force X, L.

And lose fat? And the answer is yes. But what happens? What happens if you do I prevent training? Well.

my life studies sickly. Hyperventilation is one of our many deliberate protocols. And one of the most prominent things that one observers is that levels of a journal in increased very quickly.

extremely quick.

People feel jittery, anxious, stress. And unless they are consciously trying to anchor, they're thinking about what that means and the benefits set to persisting. Typically, they aboard the cyclical pe of valuation protocol really quickly within seconds.

right, you will feel tingling, sweating, all kinds of things. You're hyper preventing ating, right? We could talk and notice about how that changes everything from a different land to focus the whole bunch of things. So unfortunately, a strategy of sitting around just exhaling more than human hail technically helps you lose more fat, but it's not going to last very long.

So then the question is, well, how do I get the situation or scenario in which I can increase my rate of expiration where i'm not gonna ass out? I'm not going in altering hyper nion, hyper cap ion issues. Any idea of a situation in which you would have an enhanced rate of explanation without wearing about .

passing out steady state exercise or .

not study state exercise, lifting weights, nerval, moderate training, repeated any of these things. They all work equally for that loss because all they're doing is increasing respired ration rate. They're saying increased demand for energy, increased acceleration.

That's the trick here. And when you equate these things to that, they have equal success and follows IT doesn't matter theoretically where you're getting up from. And so when we get in this idea of what what are the best training strategies for file laws, IT doesn't matter which one of these tactics you pick.

As long as you maintain a consistent hearings over time because of this exact fact, IT doesn't matter if you're burning, quote, quote, fat in the exercise session or of your burning carbon hyrax in the exercise session. IT is totally irrelevant to your net fat loss over time. Now there's some significant misconceptions there about what I just talk.

And I and I love to come back and walk through that more detail, but that's the main tako message here. IT won't matter what's coming in and I won't matter what's coming out because in either case, IT is the same rate of oxygen N C, O two out. That's the key metric. And hopefully this helps a lot of people have some relief because they're like men.

You're so tied up on what is the exact protocol for training for optimizing famous? What's the exact nutritional intervention I need for fat loss? And then you wonder why all these different diets can work effectively, and wonder why all these different training protocols, you know, surely, you know somebody who lost a bunch of weight.

And the only thing they did is they just started run. There was no advances product. They just started running, and they ran five miles every day that works.

And then tons of people who try like that knows anything. And lots of people who went to, I went to cardio kit box in class, lost weight. Oh, I just started doing nervous on why? why? Mysterious ly, you do all these things work there.

there. You have something, has some spider sense, have to has been going off in your brain where, like, there has be something inking these things. And what's linking IT is simply carbon exchange. So put yourself in a position in which you are exhaling more than you and inhaling without passing out. The other problem is, if you were to simply do a breathing protocol, while the rate of acceleration will go up after that, you would correct and going the opposite direction, so that the problem is your net carbon output over the course today is not going to change unless you increase the demand for energy, and that's how you get that negative .

state along these lines of tAiling carbons as the road for that loss IT makes me wonder whether or not increasing lung capacity is possible. I'm getting the answer is yes, and whether or not increasing lung capacity is a good goal in root to enhancing fat loss. Essentially what i'm asking is if you can offload more co two carbon poor x sae R U, A more efficient fat loss machine.

it's a wonderful thought. And the answer would be not not something to worry about because if you were to excel more carbon than actually needed, now we're in a state of efficiency, you're burning way more energy than needed to do your activity. The heart has a metric called cardiac Albert, and this is in sciences we agree with.

This is q for some other reasons, is either C O R Q and cardio output is hard rate multiplied by stroke volume, so as how many bees for minute you're having as well as how much bud's coming out of IT. So cardiff output is actually very specific to energy needs. If you try to work around that is just going to adjust yourself.

So what I mean by this is if you were able to increase your stroke volume among of blood coming up per pump, you would automatically adjust to reduce your heart rate so that you keep cardiac output exact to energetic demands. So you're sort of pushing one in the of the spectrum, but your body will pull the other one back to keep you at that exact same neutral level. So if you look at if you think about like cardiovascular are adaptations to endure training, and any type of enduring training, a common thing people will understand is resting heart rate.

And so what that number is, is how many beats per minute you're having when you're sitting, you're doing nothing. A very positive adaptation as a lowering of that resting rate over time as general numbers. What you will hear is people will say things like A A Normal resting heart rate is between the sixty to eighty beds per minute.

And you know if any of the things i've talked about um with the individuals I work with, I don't work anybody with disease to clarify that. I don't do anything with disease management treatment. Anything is always about people who are in a good spot who wanted optimize or get the next level.

Whether this is professional athletes trying to to peak for physical performance or, uh, the focus on our rapid health optimization program that feel good again, it's not diseased stuff and they want to feel incredible. One of the metrics gonna pay attention to is this interesting. hurray.

So what here's what happens as you improve your endurance, your arresting heart, right will go down if I see somebody over seventy bees per minute. Um unless someone is going on, you're not physically fit regardless of whether not that is going on call within the Normal values, I want to see everybody sub sixty be permitted or close, right? That is not a difficult thing to really get to for most people.

So if you train a lot, regardless of how you train roles, study said, doesn't matter that resting hard rate will come down. But since energy demands at rest haven't really changed, cardiac update the same. So what happens is stroke volume goes up.

So literally like we trained your quarter steps on the leg stand machine to get stronger so you can produce more force per contraction, the heart will do the exact same thing. And so as you're able to get more of the blood out of your heart per pump, the heart realizes I don't need to pump as often. So that's the compeny adaptation, which is saying, hey, look, I don't need to beat sixty times a minute.

I now need to beat fifty five times a minute because i'm getting the same amount blood out per pump chill. And this is why your resting hard rate goes down, your resting stroke firm goes up, but your cardiff output is identical. So that's not a good metric of fitness.

It's going to stay the same. Cardio outputs will only adjust for energetic changes, right? Energy requirements in the acute moment, right? How much do I need go, which is going to be determined by ventilation, right? How much I am I bringing in, putting out that's going to determine cardiac output, and that's onna determine what rap if you were to do like a sub max mum exercise test, when you are unfit to win your fit, or when you're fit to a your superfit add some max, you going to see the same thing cardiogram t will be identical and you like, damn, nothing happened.

What you're not realizing as your heart rate at that same workload is now lower and that's sufficiency because your stroke one am is higher, where gets people tripped up as that max? Because you may not see a much of a change at max because you on't, you don't really seen increase in maximum heart rate with fit. This is not a thing, right? So t maximum heart rate is not a good proxy for fit or unfit aren't like that.

I'm stroke volume will get limited eventually by filling capacity of your heart IT has to have so much time to fill up with the blood before can contract again, squeak the blood out. And when you have a heart rate of two hundred beats minute, that just doesn't leave much time to fill. And so I won't really push you pass that. So um don't worry about trying to increase your maxim heart rate. It's not necessarily good thing and what really change a matter cardiac well because stroke volume will be higher.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that I should avoid training. That gets me up toward back more hurry.

correct? Oh, you should absolutely do IT right?

That's what that was my assumption. I'd like to a brief break and acknowledge our sponsor, athletic Greens. Athletic Greens is a vitamin, mineral, probiotic and adapted and drink designed to help you meet all of your foundational and nutritional needs. I've been taking anything that Greens daily since two thousand and twelve.

So i'm delighted that the response or of this podcast reason I started taking athletic Greens and the reason I still take athletic Greens once or twice a day, is that IT helps me, me, all of my foundational nutritional needs, that is, IT covers my vite, my minerals and the pro biotics are especially important to me. Athletic Greens also contains adaptations which are critical for recovering from stress, from exercise, from work or just general life. If you like to try athletic Greens, you can go to athletic Greens com slash huberman to claim a special offer.

They will give you five free travel packs, and they'll give you a year supply of vitamin 3k two again， if you like to try and let the Greens go to athletes ens dot com slash huberman to claim the special offer. Getting back to energy production of metabolism. So we got these different modes of moving energy, but making and breaking energy bonds in the body, moving energy into different issues and out of different issues, and indeed, out of body through acceleration.

How do each of these different modes of energy utilization relate to different modes of movement and exercise? In my mind, i'm starting to draw a bridge between. Okay, when I walk for sixty minutes, you know if i'm talking, i'm breathing a bit more. Maybe i'm bring a more fast after all speeches is a modified .

excel and maze. If i'm .

sprinting um reading differently and if i'm um you know doing a thirty minute moderate moderate job reading differently. So you've beautiful the illustrated this bridge between energy production utilization and carbon oxide flow through excEllent what are some of the specifics about energy aliza cording to different modes of exercise and if we could Better define modes of exercise or types of exercise that feature specific adaptations， I think this where that the bridge will move from being A A mere line to a real structure.

Yeah, absolutely. I wanna lay one more foundational piece. And then it's going to be much easier to understand the limitations I put on some of these training protocols as well as the lack of limitations OK.

It's really, really important. The way I want to start this is we have this this foundation now of of carbon and and basic energy production. That's not to say there is no difference there is and that difference is important.

But maybe we can answer the question from earlier, which is actually with something you asked me this morning. We are exercising. You're like training faster, right? Does training faster? And hands fat loss.

And the logic is sound. If I don't have any fuel, then I should be burning more fat. There far shall be losing more fat.

It's sound, it's not true, is a great idea. It's one of these classic things in science and exercise. YSL you really like sounds good, turns out is not.

It's actually a pretty gross misunderstanding of tablets. M so it's not to pick on that topic. I don't care about that topic, but IT is it's a common question.

IT also gives me an opportunity. Just tell you more about attaboy. Here's what happens. You are breathing in o to and breathing O C O to.

However, the ratio to that is what we call the either R E R respirable exchange you or R Q respired location. And i'm not to differentiate those two. They're not the same thing.

But we're going to skip pass up for now as you begin to increase secco size intensity, the percentage of o two to C O two rises in the favor of C O two. So you start breathing out way more seo two than you are breathing and o to right. And so if we were to look at that number, you know, was the relationship echoes up.

So at rest, most people have A A of a value that we would typically call something like zero point six. okay? And that's again the relationship between our two and three, two, maybe zero point seven. If you were to go for a lock, that increases slightly because you're now expiring seo two at a higher rate. And so now you've moved up to, say, point eight or something like that.

One of the ways that we mark somebody of achieving an actual view to max on a test is if that value exceeds one point one, now in a few who are paying attention or thinking will wait a minute how to help in a ratio to two things ever get past one. Well, that's because you're ginning in a place we are actually offloading more seal to than is actually necessary. And this is what actually causes and explains are a thing that people like to call e poc, which is excess exercise post oxygen consumption.

This is another way to think about IT. The only reason your breathing is to bring in oxyde. Upload C O two, right? If i'm no longer exercising, why am I stop breathing? Other words, once you stop the demand or the need for act for energy, you should stop penalty, but you don't, right?

That's because in the case of low intensity exercise, the second you stop, you write back down the resting valuation, no problem, because you are able to match the need for energy with the offload of waste one to one during that exercise. When you start creeping up the intensity, you can do that. So you have to basically start stealing a little bit of fuel here.

So even though you're done exercising, you're still ventilating because you have to pay that back, pay that back. By that, I specifically mean you have to bring an oxyde because you have a whole bunch of wait has been accumulating in your tissue that you've got to deal with. And I walk you through what that wasis.

It's a particularly molecule a lot of people have heard of but grossly misunderstand. So you got to build handle. So the reason that you sit there and go and continue eventually is because you're now trying to pay back that excess post exercise oxyde dead.

That's that ox debt was specifically talking about, right? So that being said, as we start cruising up at our q starts going up, pop, pop. And if we get the one you're one point out, you're like you're hurting. You know you a pretty good spot, alright? I like .

you're hurting. You're in a pretty good spot. yeah. Is a window into doctor any glen's mind? Now you really want to be a subject in his laboratories, ies masque's warned to ananda's lab.

He absolutely. All right. So the idea that I will lose more fat by being in an exercise situation that is burning more fat IT seems to make sense, but is a massive failure to understand the metals.

M is the exact same explanation to why exercising fasted doesn't matter. So the exercising faster issue under Normal circumstances is irrelevant because you have plenty of fuel in the system, even when you have an eight breakfast that morning. Now if you're talking like extended fast over multiple days, this is a different scenario.

If muscle like a gen livered, like a gene and blood glue cos are at sufficient levels, and you absolutely have enough energy to perform almost any type of exercise that most people are doing, maybe if you're rob and you're at mile twenty today is a different story. But the vast majority of us have plenty of fuels sitting around. So we're not going to burn more in the fat just because we didn't eat breakfast for that morning so that this doesn't make energetic sense.

We have a lot of backup supplies. You're never out. The trick here is this there's there's a concept here we call cross over concept.

So as we are starting to move up exercise intensity, we start burning a higher percentage of our fuel from carbo hydrate and a lower percentage of our fuel coming from fat. I'm sleeping. That's the highest percentage of your fuel that will be coming from fat of any activity you could ever do.

So if the theory that i'm going to stay at a lower intensity to burn more fat was true, the optimal fat burning strategy would then beat a sleep like that doesn't make sense. Of course, IT doesn't. So why would they going at a slightly elevated rate somehow always magically make you lose fat? IT doesn't actually make sense when you think about that.

We are like, oh yeah, there is no way though it's a percentage trick. It's a difference between absolute and relative. This is what this confusion is.

So yes, as you start doing lower intensity exercise, whether your faster and on IT is irrelevant, lower intensity of exercise, a greater percentage of your fuel is coming from fat. However, your total fuel expenditure is very low, so that whole total carbon baLance is not really being shifted much. As you start exercising in a very high intensity, you actually start getting a higher percentage of you fuel from carbon hydrate, lower percentage from fat.

In fact, at rest, about the highest you can get in most people is about sixty percent of your fuel from fat as you're sleeping. E, I, P, seventy percent. But you'll never be in a position ever, no matter what sort of thing you've heard the internet.

You'll never be in a situation where fat is your only fuel source. The highest I probably ever seen is like seventy percent um you should probably beat about that. That's a kind of a good number to think i'm honesty, but people will understand a little bit among tables, them to be dangerous, but enough will throw out these terms like fat adapted.

And that adapted is a real thing, but is a massive misunderstanding often times, right? IT, is this idea thinking like I can get to spot where a maxims ing fat burning, maxims ing fat burning and maxims ing fat for exercise and maximizing fat loss over time are not the same thing at all, right? That's the confusion.

So if you enhance fat ox dating and exercise, that does not enhance fat loss per say, right? So this is a lot of the confusion is happening, right? So as we start moving up, we can never get a position where we're using fat only as a fuel.

Again, at best year, seventy percent fat, thirty percent carver hydro. For a lot of reasons, we privates don't have time to get into today. However, the opposite is possible. When you get into true high intensity exercise, you'll be basically one hundred percent carbohydrate in zero percent fat, right? That is is very possible.

That in fact is one point out that our one point one is actually because your ventilation got so high, you actually exceeded that number, even though you're at one hundred percent carb hydrate. This is what people came up. The idea that is like, well, I don't want to burn carbs, I want to lose fat.

So my response that is always like, okay, great. So makes sense. Burning fat, losing fat, burning cards is losing.

What then? Like you think your liver shunk like to go in a minute? What did you lose them? Where they come from? It's all coming as carbon.

Don't worry about where came from for your fuel. IT just has to come out as carbon, right? There are differences and exercise efficiency for performance with our professional thleep, of course. But if the only goal here is flows, IT doesn't matter where you get IT from.

The last bridge we have to connect here is like, wait a minute, if I only burned carbon hydrate, how do I actually lose that fat there, that love handle sitting on the side of my? How did that come out of me? I never burned that from my fuel.

What you're fAiling to understand is there's a baLance game that happens here. So if you need to do a bunch of high intensity exercise training, and you burn only most, look like a gen and blood blue coast, and maybe even you did IT for so long, you burn some liver like agent, the body understands that IT is expelled. A lot of energy from that side of the equation.

It's going to do a couple of things that was very difficult to go through this fancy situation where you convert carbon height rates in the fat and back and for like that's actually like fairly hard. What's easier to do something that earlier is actually just bias energetics to a different field source. So in that scenario where you're down really low in your carbon high, carbon high rate stores, any carbon hydrate you bring in are going to go to storage.

And since your net energy expendable is something that your body regulates ed a lot, any fact that you then bring in is going to be utilized as a fuel source because he knows IT doesn't need IT anymore. That is an access. So that's how you actually use fat as a fuel because you've burn down carbon hydrate stories.

As i'm hearing this, a couple of things come to my first of all, thank you for that incredibly important description of what is otherwise a very confusing landscape for most people. One of the key points I took away, and I just want to say from the outset, this is not exhaustive by any stretch, is that burning fat does not equal losing fat from the body, correct? And then burning fat has to be divided into burning of body fat stores.

And we need to distinguish that from burning of dietary fact that is brought in, and often times as people don't disambiguate those correct. right? And i've also understanding that reducing one's body carbo hydrates stores muscle ligon liver, said OCR, during high intensity exercise in other ways. But that is one very efficient way to tap into those stores, which makes me wonder, again, this is one.

These things that does that lead to a protocol, makes me wonder whether or not doing high, intense IT, let's a wait training for a forty five to sixty minutes, seventy five minutes of strange training, power training, hypertrophy ing, which we've covered in an episode about those topics, and then doing some steady state cardio ashlar exercise. Is there any benefit to that arrangement that would, quote, quote, enhance body fat loss from the body through? Very special now, because unlike the idea that training fasted would shift the bias towards fat loss, which IT doesn't. You've told us under those conditions, muscle like in, and maybe even livered like gen is going to be depleted. Put simply, can I enhance body fat loss by doing some cardio after a about of weight training?

If you equate for total energy expenditure, IT won't matter. Now you did bring up a very important point that I want to clarify. If you look at the exercise modalities that we laid out in our previous uh, conversations, we talked about nine different adaptations tions.

One was skill, and then speed, power, strength, hypocrisy, muslim and dance, anthropic capacity, a robot capacity and longer ration advance. Now speed, power and skill development have almost no benefit for fellows because remember, those are low weight, a lot of rest and low volume. They're not really, really going to be helpful. You can make a little bit of a case for strength a little bit, but the total energy expendable for strength. Rain, even if it's an hour, if it's truly strange, it's fairly low because .

the repetitions are in the one range.

That's exactly. It's not a total work. So if you're trying to develop a protocol that sort of optimizes fat loss, which you want to do, your close and my opinion is the a combination of something in the hypocrisy slash moscow endurance strain training room.

Okay, so um six to thirty repetitions, something like the resistance training, great deep muscle gin, maybe even a little of liver in may .

be a little bit depending on if you're doing for a long time, but noticeable amount.

okay. So an hour of of uh hybridity type training, if if you're .

training hard with low restaurants, restaurants and you really did an hour, you would for sure get there.

But most people, because you, I ve vote me on rice after I do way raining .

and planners muscle total, you may be do a little bit of very high intensity maximum are right well over veal, two max, hard as you can for twenty, thirty, forty five, sixty seconds. Something like that was some recovery, a lot of recovery, and repeated. And that's going to do a great job of the punishing muscle like a gen, right? If you do that long enough, you'll get deliver. But again, most people don't because it's really, really hard to go that .

hard to livers or last last resort.

Yeah basic mechanics here, which which will actually get to do is as our like third segment here is um energy production comes from local exercising muscle first and foremost as from fast for creating and carbo hydrates stores again and we store and most we call like a gen, right? That's is your first sign. Light on the fence.

If you need blue coast outside of that, you going to start pulling IT from the blood. But one of the things your body regulates, a handful of things over almost everything, blood PH, blood blue coast, blood pressure and electorate concentrations like IT really does not want to miss those things at all. IT will change almost anything else.

The body, to keep those things standardize, right? You generally, because you need all those things for your brain to work, and your brain will stop work, right? If you need blood pressure, you will go up.

The PH changes you can run, metabolic cros change, you can think. And glucose is a primary fuel source for the brain. It's going to be a problem, right? So if that number starts to come back because you're grabbing glucose out of the blood, your liver is going to then kick in.

It's going to break down. It's like agent to put glue coast in the blood to keep the blood number the level. In fact, one of the things you'll see is blood glucose concentration tions rise during exercise.

They don't fall and in fact they rise um as an anticipate, if you train a lot, your blood is all start going up before you start moving IT knows it's coming right so you you can play that game. You can rob Peter to pay a pal for a long time until your liver runs out. And that's what actually is a bank in terms of like long duration and turn stuff.

If you're tracking many, many, many miles several hours, typically we say, oh, it's got to be over two hours before your liver starts to become a real problem or IT has to be tremendously intense because those reasons you have to burn through just a lot of energy before your liver starts taking to a problem. You can continue to train when your muscle of likely and levels are low. In fact, um people say like a depletion and muscle, but it's it's generally miserable and you are going to have tremendous signals of fatigue when that number is lower than seventy five percent.

So people think that like their muscles are getting heavy, you're probably still seventy five percent for a lot of folks will cook, quit around the fifty percent. The highest i've ever seen is like ninety five percent repletion. And that's an extremely high level across country skies.

And like their deltoid, it's very, very low. Some very towns runners will get fairly low in their quads. But the vast majority of folks, by the time year fifty percent of plated, you're gna quit.

It's going to be really, really chAllenging. So you're never really going to get that low. IT is like a bit of a protective mechanism, right? When your liver gets low, you're going to be shut down.

And that's the case of ever going to like a marathon. And you seen people run like twenty five and half miles and then then they're like bonk. They are going to like baby deer walking stands and they collapse and you like, how are you mentally weak?

Like you ran twenty six miles and you can't run the last point. Any mentally weak IT is if your liver is done, it's gona stop you because there's no more back and preserves muscle you can get away with. You can push through IT liver will not let you go any farther.

I find this fascinating because IT makes me wonder whether not the liver being depleted sends a neural signal to the brain, or the brain must register some signal like, I would like to be alive tomorrow. Thank you. Whatever is happening right now, stopping is going to be safer than continuing here.

And so that stops signal. Um is is one that I think a lot of people, including myself, are are intrigued by because we always think that it's a relate to willows. But the brain needs to preserve itself. And as the master of computer, I mean, there are always ways to go into of authority on type, not thinking, just doing type behavior.

You have a rice switches, right? And you can play those cards and you can get Better at learning and be being less sensitive to that switch. That's exactly what happened.

You first start training. You try to realize, like, oh my gosh and super tired. And then you realized, really cooked. Like, i'm totally fine here. This is like the k pick person who's made sangs like this, but like you're really only ten percent to play ted or thirty percent or forty percent or old person. Of course any those things were true because IT is like a little bit and override.

You've just got very sensitive to being a small percent of depleted and you've learned OK, i'm tired and there is a long way to go past that. But once you get past that and you flip that over, right, switch a lot, you just you're going to break quickly because you you basically earn to ignore that signal and problems can happen really quickly after that. And that's even experienced, enduring. That is if you hit that level. So like you are going to be hit the concrete next, and that's generally a problem.

I want to make sure I understand a concept that you refer to earlier correctly because I have a feeling that I don't. And that's this issue of how the body accesses body fat stores when in a sub college state. And i'm doing mainly black age in burning exercise.

Yes, what I heard you say, and please correct me where i'm undoubted wrong. What I heard you say was that, okay, I go into the gym and I start lifting weight and burning muscle gaging mostly local to the muscles then i'm using, and then I start pulling like aging from the bloodstream. Maybe there's somebody that stores that are mobilized, probably not dipping into my livered lack agen.

Okay, I complete the workout. Maybe I even hop on the airline bike, can do a little sprint. Yeah, I go for job.

Maybe I eat immediately afterward. Maybe I don't need for a few hours afterwards. But across the day I am just fewer calories than I born.

Is IT the case that body fat is mobilized in order to replace the legging that my sub clerk intake was insufficient to provide, in other words, because I didn't eat enough to fill the glories in stores in my using body fat converted into languages to fill those stores, right? And if so, is that a case where i'm no longer exhaling carbons in order to burn body up? But rather i'm refurbished fat into muscle. Have I turned fat into muscle in that case?

Yeah, I am really glad of U. S. Is because I did a very poor job on that last point talking about there. Um i'm realizing playing back in my head because that's so many really good questions. You cannot turn fat in the muscle.

Can you turn muscle into that? No, i'm so glad said that because when I was in college, our I don't wanted out that person. The physiology teacher seem to think still at that point that one could lift weights, get muscular, but then he would eventually turn into body. That that that myth is, I think, largely been dispelled.

I heard that so many times, uh, as a kid, I heard that so many times in college, I heard so I heard so many times in hour, uh, undergraduate students from other faculty and such. So um no like they're not the same structures. They are very different.

Um let me let me take shout, answer this Better. You are really, really, really closed. So yeah, if you were to do that type of exercise, we've burn a lot of moses like this.

And how is IT? I'm losing stored fat, right? That's really the clocks the question. And IT doesn't even actually matter if you then win ahead and injured actually uh carbon or fat post exercise um that's not really think you have on a couple of key things.

Number one, this is all on the assumption that total chloric e intake is still low, right you know total need below to OK. I also wanted flag calories in. Calories out is not the only thing that matters.

This is a very complex than calories and is incredibly complicated. Calories out is even more complicated OK. So we maybe another series we can spend on that alone. I so don't don't go nuts about that.

You have to be hyper clerk, one where the other if you burn a bunch of my so like agen and you are hyper clerk, you're still going to at fat. If you burn a amounts of musical like agent and your hypocrisy, you're going to lose fat, right? Think about this way.

You're in a negative calorie state. Where are those calories going to come from? Are you going to reduce your muscle? Lack age and storage? permanent? No, no. Are you going to reduce your kick age and storage and .

in your liver?

no. You wanted reduce plugins. No, no way, right. So where is that actual energy coming from? It's coming from your store to fat IT is your backup reserve energy system the way that I want to fly this years?

People tend to think about IT is like carbon hyrax versus fat. That's not. It's more like a chain, more like a bicycle where there's a front gear and a backyard.

You turn one gear, IT turns the other one. These are complimentary systems. They are not. And or systems, right? You're turning one.

And when we go through car ba hyder metabolism, maybe here in a second you'll understand why you have to have an aneroid c and robic component to that. There is absolutely no way to complete carbon droid metabolism without oxygen. That has to happen.

The only way to engage in fat metabolism is a Robert ox. There's no ana robot component to IT, so a fundamental difference there. So the your carbon hydrate are meant to be incredibly flexible as the primary fuel source for because your fat is not meant to be flexible and is immediate, be unlimited.

That's the basic point. So you want flexibility over here and an unlimited capacity over there. Now i'm safeguarded against any energetic need.

Okay, I need to run up a hill for safety. Cool carbon hydrates are there? I need to then run for seventeen hours.

Cool fat is there. We want both these systems. Um you want to be able to have great energy throughout the day. You want a slow drip coming from fat. You don't want up and down, up and down feel great, up and down awesome.

You want to people to think very quickly and get hyper focused bomb carbo hydrates right up right, get IT into the brain, get thinking Better, taking clearly. If so, we want all these, not just for across ze purposes, but for activities of daily living. We want an optimal system here.

And when people use the terms like fat adapted, they're generally high jacking that and thinking that IT used to be a thing we said all the time, and like all of minogue, ate classes for years. And that idea of metals like flexibility is using optimal few sources and optimal times, not maxims ing fat usage that the people have call up to that term a medical flexibility to be like. Oh, therefore learn how to maximize fat bring.

That's not what that term means. That term means maximize your ability, use whatever feel is optimal in that time. Now, granted you most people aren't fantastic, are using fantasy fuel source relative to the other direction, but none's, the gold standard here should be max ized both.

right? Finally, answering your question. If I were to burn a bunch of msk like a good, how I losing that fat? Well, the fuel you're interesting in in a hypochondriac is going to say, hey, look, we have a lot of musk like a gene we have to replenish.

So any carbon hydrate that comes in needs to be biased. Tods storage, it's gotto go into those tissue. Any fat that comes in or doesn't even come in. But any fact that are using for a fuel needs to be utilized for activity, and that's where the chloro c expenditure from fat comes in.

So you're basically saying your general physiology, the energy for that starts coming from fat and the energy that's coming in from carbon hydrate needs to be simply stored. And so you see is your respiratory question changes. The R, E, R is going, is going off.

And so in the exercise moment, IT shot way up for carbon hydrate and shot way down, for fact, as the competitor response equals the other direction, because your body saying we are low on carbon hydrate, don't use them for fuel unless we absolutely have you, right. So use them for storage, get our fuel from the fat side of the equation. And so what you're generally going to say is like, oh, i'm burning more fat to sitting around after things like that and that's not even taking into the equation. The e poc park, which is like it's not actually is largest, people think that is it's fairly small, but IT is IT adds up sort of over time. So I does that explain a little bit Better about how you lose fat when you actually only burn carbs for exercise?

And you explain a beautifully you talked about e poc. The post exercise oxide consumption is not being that significant in terms of energy aliza. Even though today we're talking about endurance in different forms of endurance. I do have to ask what they're not. People consider the elevation in basal metabolic that occurs when there's more muscle around here because muscle is such a meta tic demanding tissue.

You if is there a straight ford ish equation? You know, if one ads, one pound of of lean muscle tissue to their body, even if it's distributed across multiple muscle groups, does that equate to A A coLoring need of x number of calories per day? yes. And is that because of the muscle protein needs of that muscle or its glands and storage needs or both.

if you don't have enough muscle, you start to have problems with fat losses. It's difficult chAllenge if you have enough muscle and you're just trying to get extremely large if you fear f twenty four in your fifteen percent body that adding more muscles not really going to play light equation. And here's why muscle is more metabolite active at rest than fat.

But fat is not a nerd. So fat is still going to burn A A small number of calories. Muscle burns more, but it's not nearly what people think IT is.

I'm a muscle guy. I'm a muscle physiologist. I would love to get people to have more muscle for any excuse I can it's not honest to say that though.

Um you're talking about when I was in undergraduate, we would say numbers like fifty cake house per day per pound is what you can look at, right? So if you put on A A pound of muscle spread across the body, your basic meta lic rate would go up by around fifty calories um per day. I think that numbers gross.

It's probably a tenth of that six to ten calories maybe. Um it's it's hard to know exactly what that number is, but the more recent estimates are something like that. So now on one hand, you could say, oh my gosh, that is not even meaningful. Other hand, you could say that super meaningful IT just depends on time domain.

You want to put that out, right? So if you to put on five pounds of muscle and your major media lic rate one up thirty or forty calories a day, well over the course of a thousand days like that actually adds up so you you could slicer is anyway you want um now maybe that number of somewhere between I don't really know not to feel I pay that much attention to candidate because it's it's not a metric kind of like e poc um where it's like we used to really hard on IT and now was like, well, well, maybe we exaggerated that like unless he just a bit but to me, he doesn't change the equation much because if you don't have enough muscles to describe their other consequences that are going to make fat loss hard. And so you need to have sufficient muscle if the additional clerk spend data.

Is the carrot great? If it's something else, I don't really care. Um there's this enough evidence that you need to have IT or I should say there's enough evidence that I will really help you in your path.

Um maybe few calories here. There is not really that thing, especially if you understand in Normal food item, anything you pick is going to be probably a couple of hundred calories. One bad food choice a day will out kick almost any amount of covered you got on a adding muscle master. You so like you're really stepping over a dollar to pick up a time if you're worried about how many colors you're getting formatting muscle. Um that loss is going to be about regulating that carbon and take above and beyond anything else.

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So i've heard about this concept of metal flexibility in a few times. Frankly, you're the first person who's ever explained to me in a clear and concise way. How do I know if I am met a about flexible? And how do I increase my meta lic flexibility?

sure. There is no specific standard, which is actually a good thing, right? And so if you have a level of specificity that you want or need metal, basically, then you don't actually want to be in the middle ground.

An example would be, if you are a performing in a type of exercise, or an athlete who performs in a sport that is like critically dominated, you don't want to be optimi meta reflexible. You don't want to be super coron code fat adapt. You want to be biased towards energy, you are going to use the same could be true of the other other spectrum.

So in those particular cases, it's not optimal to be equally effective because there are no free passes in physiology, right? Of your energy producing systems will up, regulator, down, regulate accordingly. So you will actually limit your ability to say, maximum utilized carbon hydrates of fuel if you're trying to up regulate your ability to use patos, phil.

And so this is like this is a saturation point outside of aspect. And most people who just say, hey, like I want to feel great throughout the day to be really want to different things. How do you know couple things.

There's a lot of biological markers you can take. Um there's also just some some practical takes. Now none of these markers by themselves are any sign. What you want to do is probably a couple of them and then say, okay, this is maybe a clue. So again, it's really important. Empty is not a single one of these tests that i'm about to walk you through automatically means you can use that as a few or the other case, which is maybe you're poor using carbohydrate a fuel. So this claim ers aside um will get into a couple of them.

So should we think about these as informative and useful al but not diagnostic .

exactly we will call this data inspired or data LED and not data driven. Okay, good. So number one, you want to think about just overall functionality. Do you have a reasonable regulation of your energy throughout the day? Now many things could be going into this, which is why these are not specific diagnostic by um as a basic measure we talked about blood blues levels.

Um you know a lot of people say ah again, you want that to be something like between eighty and ninety um mill grams product leaders, the blood luco level and and if you go look at the the cut off points for what determines to be prediabetic and act to diabetic insecta, um what I can actually recommend and this is there's little bit science, you are actually to walk there. A lot of this is my personal preference. Um I generally want people to be at eighty five or lower and that's because of a couple of things.

Number one, um there is actually some papers that showed any uh every single point increase above eighty five increases your likelihood of developing type two diabetes by about six percent. Okay, great. So technically well maybe ninety or ninety five given up to one hundred or you know in the corner could Normal of values that's one clue because it's not definitive by itself, doesn't mean anything.

Um you need to really pay tension to what increasing by six percent actually means. But it's a data point or i'm looking at if I actually then see symptomatic gy and we run you through some questionaire ask you're feeling throughout the day and we see uncontrolled energy about the lot energy they get really, really tired and strings. Okay, another data point, right? We may patch a few these things together that may give me some clues.

Um that being said, again this a lot of this rhetoric c is used to then scare people off of car behind rates and that is I want to be as clear as possible that is not not truly um the only thing people's care about right they can be a thing. I can also be unrelated. There are reasons you could have blood glucose concentrations at this level or energy swings that are unrelated to car behind your injustice at all, right? So one test you can have run in addition to that, if you're going to get lud book's measure can look at some markers.

We talked about our which A S T N A L T um we talked about um how you can kind of look at that uh A S T L T ratio before you can actually do the inverse, which is look at at nest the kind of Normal value there you're going to look at us. Like point eight, I actually like to see IT lower than that. And that alone is has been actually associated with blood glucose test regulation.

And so if you see multiple science, again, we're looking for patterns and patterns and patterns in both, in our case, biomarkers, symptom logy and performance. And now you're if if all three those things are lining up, you may have an issue. So performance wise, a couple of little test you can run.

Um ideally, you have some sort of standard work out you do and hopefully it's it's pretty objective. So in other words, like I run the same fifteen minute loop every morning from my cardio oh okay, great. How long does IT take you to on that loop? You could pick whatever distance IT doesn't really matter.

And what's your heart rate during that thing? And then what's your perceived exertion? Now you should be able to do that, fasted with very little drop in performance. A, if you can do that, then that tells me you're fairly good at using a fatos view source.

If, however, the one day you go to do your standard workout and you feel awful fasting, that may be another clue that perhaps you're not very good at darling in um that system. If you recovery afterwards, terms of art rate recovery is very long, that may be another clue that you have a poor utilization of fats of fuel source. The inverse can also be true.

So if I give you something in the neigh's od of like fifty or so grams of carbo hydrates and thirty minutes later your face is falling off the table, that's a good sign that you're the opposite. You're actually very, very, very poor. Utilizing carbohydrate as a fuel.

And the reason I bring that up is um that is equally a problem we send we hear people lot make commons um like man, I have to stay away from carbs. I rash really harder if I do them. That has what that actually means is you're very poor at utilizing car bye resis fuel. You're getting a your sensitivity is way off.

We should be able to have carbon hind rate at a reasonable dosage, fifty grams, and not fall asleep thirty years later or or half the on the gap ion so um that as a sign in our opinion this is again now just my practical brain telling you is um that's a sign of of dis function. We we should be able to help any carbon ideas through the day if we choose, if we want to, for any reason. Now of course, if you're to throw one hundred and fifty or two hundred grams of carbon hydrate your belly, you're probably going to take us a little bit of an energy hit after that. But we should be able to have a reasonable dosage and not, you know, have to fall asleep afterwards.

What is one way that people can enhance their realization of cover hydrates for exercise? The reason ask is I think I fall into that category. Yes, I do consume some complex over hydrates and fruit post resistance training, and that tends to be when i'm ungers for them. But typically, unless i'm i've just done some resistance training, I keep most of my daytime meals relatively low carbon, and then in the evening i'd prefer slightly less protein and more cover hydrate because IT has the effect of sedating me a little bit here. And I sleep well, and I know this runs against what everyone was taught, which is dennie.

Cuber hides in the day, but I like IT because then I tend to wake up in the morning with at least as far as I can tell, my language and stores not usually topped off but but certainly failed um and i'm able to train faster in the morning. And my favorite reworking out is consist of water and cafe and electrical, maybe some supplementation as well. I love training, fasted.

So there's actually a number of things. One little sticky thing you in there is actually the use of caffeine. So that's another sign of if you have to have caffeine to do your faster training, that's journey, that of sign. You're not very good to using fuel.

So I use caffeine prior to resistance training workouts. Generally, I don't need IT for any kind of court.

Ask for training yeah I and what I say that IT doesn't mean bad IT is just like another clue is like, okay, you should be able to do this without having a half caffeine to execute. Now using caffeine to get a Better result is sort of differences and organic. We actually use uh, a lot of high carbon hydrate es than the day.

A lot of times we are out there to our cutting weight or trying to reduce way. So IT is a fantastic way to handle a lot of things. And that idea that if you eat cards later at night, uh, that will increase fast so like that all is so old and and so well destroyed scientists that that's not a concern.

Um there's this so much data showing, in fact, that there's so much data on like the eating timing is is a generally poorly understood about when you can eat, what you can eat, eating in the morning um resulting in night like A A lot of what we heard there is stop in. Maybe we just save that for sort of another day because we're going to get really far down. That's another weekend. yes.

But yes, I think our plan cover that in an episode. Nutrition um okay, which is in the series the the only thing that would attack is you know what hear about. Just in carbon hyder late at night.

I should just say that at least in my case, i'm eating the majority of my carbon hydrate unless I trained resistance, trained early in the day, which goes I post resistance training in the last meal of the day. But for me, that's not really late at night. The last meal is somewhere between six thirty and seven thirty P M.

Three years hours.

something like that before you see around ten, ten, thirty or so. yeah. So it's not, know, midnight balls of pasta done that too but but typically it's not. So I think that people will be very interested, myself included, in how meal timing relate all of this. But now let's so how do .

you prove fat initiation? How do you prove carbonization time about that really quickly? Um enhancing fact uh, uzi is as simple as doing a little bit of work in a either prefer injustice state.

So any time you and just a neutral priority training, you're going to bias stores that nutrient right, which is almost what we are talking about either. So if you, anna, guarantee you burn more fat, eat more fat part to workout, now you're not going to lose fat. But what what you're factor vely signal is we have an overabundance of this fuel, preferentially target this for fuel.

Now the downside is that may actually hinder your performance. Um that's typically only concern for people at a very high level. Um fat is a slower view source.

So if you're relying a born upon that, your top end is going to come down a little bit. And so you wouldn't want to do that ratee prior to race if IT is a carbo hydroid dependent race, right? I'm in the fact we actually see long term adaptations, I would suggest that.

So the end I was responsible for car behind the metabolite will dow regulate. And so you get worse at that. So not not a great strategy there.

Um carbon dry with the upset, right? So if you have carbon ydych or exercise, you going to buy us more towards that. So a handful of things you can do if your total clerk intake is um simply managed, that's gna take care.

A lot of these problems and appropriate eating strategy. So the types of food, the combinations of food um all those things are going to make your post carbon hydrate justice bunk. A lot of the things can go away.

So there's a little bit physiology that has to be um corrected for. So it's a little bit in one hand, you can go very dear, right? So the real answer of how we would do this is if we see the scenario like that, we're going to do a whole set of analysis.

We're going to go full labs, right, probably extensive blood panel urn, aliva store even. And we're going to figure out where's that local diregus tion coming from. So a lot of people think like, oh, it's a tablet measure.

IT might be and also might just be a flag that something else is happening in the body. So we're going to actually work backwards a lot to try to figure out exactly why that's occurring. IT may be as simple as, oh, you're eating a lot of your carbohydrate without any fiber or protein.

And we know that that's important because those will actually blunt the good, the licensing index like the rise and luck good. So IT could be a simple thing of this, like all your combination of food is doing. It's not the total amount and maybe something again, more indications the actual system, uh IT could be um a hard issue IT IT could be a breathing issue.

There could be a number of things. So the way to get Better at IT is to simply train IT and specificities came here. So if you want to get Better at, uh, managing your blood glucose throughout the day so they are feeling those things, I could be a few issue, but I could be a number of other things. And IT is hard to go into all them with with our time constraint.

So the practical tool that I was say here is if you wanted get Better at managing energy throughout the day, make sure that number one, your protein is stabilized, making sure, number two, you're ingesting your food in the right combinations, ideally with some fiber and or some protein or both, that alone will help stabilize a lot of the problems. Then you need to train at high intensity. You want to get Better using carbon hydrate of fuel, train and a higher intensity and have carbohydrates right before the workout.

We will do that a lot if um if if if we see folks who are I, I can walk you to the test of identifying if you're not very good at using pattings of you the test for not being good at using carbohydrates of you is both of that eating just I talked about as well as performance. If you are a very, very, very slow starter, this is like a really hard to get going. That generally indicates you might be a situation where you're not very good to use carbide as fuel.

So we're going to practice that. We're going to have a pre carbon hydrate for exercise carbonate. Me, then we're going to do higher intensity stuff, not the point of making you sick. And I, justice, sue, all that stuff. We want to get Better at using carbonate as a fuel faster.

If you want to get Better doing the opposite, then you do that opposite strata either again, using a fat prior to the workout, knowing your peak performance is gonna down a little bit. But you're you're investing in adaptation, right? It's not about that work out.

It's about what's going to happen six, eight, ten weeks from now investment or we want to think about or you could bring in some faster training. And so I want to really make sure I clarify when we are talking about here, i'm not at all against faster training. It's not IT works isn't required for fat loss.

IT isn't required for fat adaptation. IT is a great option of if you want. Um what I was hoping to do with that conversation, and maybe I did articulate that well, is to not restrict people, but is to open you up and at least that you have a lot of options.

If you d like to do fast to cardio, amazing IT is great. If you hate IT, you don't have to. You can reach the same performance schools, the same physicals, without ever doing IT.

If you love long duration study state stuff, IT is great. If you hate IT, there are other options, higher intensity stuff, again, for just talking about fat loss. So I hope now that that's a little clear in terms of the same thing. Nutrition, if you like higher curb, great. If you like lower or that these are all great, you have options and you don't have to thread so much over, oh my gosh, I have to do this thing as such away and I absolutely hate IT you don't have to worry about IT hit those concepts and you'll be fine a few minutes to go.

You mentioned that if we adjust to give, in fact, then the body will preferentially use that fuel source. You can just cover a hired will use that fuel source. Is IT always the case that the body uses the injured ted macon nutrient prior to using like agent? I have to imagine it's using both.

I mean, if I were to have some carbon hydrate before um doing any kind of training, the muscle still burn like agent right? Or do they have some way to register the amount of circulating carbon hydrate that would allow or available carbon hydrate in the form of food stuff? S that would allow them to not tap into their own muscle fibre stores of nike? Chen.

right. So the way we derive energy, uh, for exercise or basic, maintain a little bit about solar physiology. So you've got a couple of organic and structures of intentions. The first one is the nucleus that hold you DNA, the second one is the meal contrary. And then everything outside that.

You've got all these other organic that do a bunch of things like riva zones for protein, sentence is or sea right now, when you want to produce energy for exercise, any time you here the word anna robic, you automatically understand we are meaning without oxygen aren't great. That all happens in the cyclical sm, the cytoplasm m is that space that is not the monogenic, not the nucleus. So it's the space in between everything else.

This is like jelly like substance that sounds there. So ano robic metabolism happens there. Every single a robic meta lic process happens in the metal country. Alright, why is the important? If I go to create solar energy and I need IT the fast as possible, i'm going to go for forest for creating, because that is stored directly in the side of classroom.

The stock company is one to one there, which means for every mall of us for creating I burn, I can create one atp, it's one to one is incredibly fast, but is very limited because think about how much of that could I possibly store in the small size of the cell that's IT. If I need energy, pass that point. Now i'll start using muscle agent because that is also stored in the psychophysical.

So IT is right there. The two geometry is not one to one is a little but higher, probably like four to once over every molecule of like and you burn, you're going to get something like for uh, some small number of atp are that which is great. But again, you're running into a storage problem.

How much can I pass me store inside my muscle? Sell IT is very, very fast, much more effective than fast for creating. But so there if I then want to metabolize any former fat, or if I want to complete the metabolite ation of carbo hydrates, I have to start transferring into the local country.

Now I start getting whole host of atp. Uh, if you were to fully run through this thing, we'll talk about a second called the T, C. A cycle or grab cycle, you'll get now something like twenty eight or thirty or thirty five depending eight people per.

So the energetic output is much higher OK. So here's exactly what happens, and i'm going to walk you through this in the form of carbon hydrate, and i'll come backwards and go through um fat. So remember carbo hydrate IT is one carbon molecule that has been hydrated.

So IT is one to one. So the actual um chemistry here IT is C H two o one carbon two h one o glue code is a six carbon chain. So the chemistry hears c six eight twelve o six six carbon, six waters.

Very simple. That's a couple hydro, right? So you can imagine if if you're watching on the video here you'll see my fingers going out. I'll try to make sure I explain that you all just listening in easy fashioned.

So you've got this chain of six carbon says in front of you and the very first cept of metabolize you snap that thing in a half. You break into two separate, three carbon chains. All right now, in doing that, you've got a little bit energy because you broke that one bond, but not a tremendous.

This is called black cover. Sis, so lice is being the split black, being like you're split black, a giant up. Got a little bit energy of that.

Alright, you form this three carbon chain called by rov or pie. Okay, there's differences there. But general audience, friends, right? And I get to communicate this, everybody, so you got a little bit of that.

Now you can do much pass that besides rip one more carbon off of each of those three carbon chains. So i've got two, three carbon chains. I'd be careful how I do this with my fingers.

So I don't fp you off here in a second, but I burn one more off of each. I get a little bit energy. And now that little two carbon chain, two carbons ins of, are amazing.

I have now completed on a robot callosity. I've got really nothing left. I can do here. I made a little bit atp. And now wait.

I have now freed two carbons, because, remember, I started with six, and I split of them apart. But I didn't two, three carbon chains. I burned one each.

I've got two, three floating. I have to know, do something with them. My body will not let me go through that part, that last process unless i've got a plan for that free carbon because I can't break in half.

amazing. Here's what's going to happen. If I have those three carbon molecules and I don't have anywhere I can put that carbon, you're not going to go through that process is going to stop IT.

You're going to start building up by ovate. Now at the same time, you're breaking atp for fuel that's called A T P. hydras.

You have water that comes in, you have a dancing. And three fast space is why it's called atp than us. And try fat one, two, three.

You break one of those falls. Tes, off there you go. This energy.

So now you have a free for floating in organic, fast fade. And at a denison die. Faust ate so, too, over there.

amazing. That actually results because you use water for IT results. Any free floating hydrogen ion OK just have to trust me hydrogen is well, any idea what a free floating hydrogen is?

Um it's going to as as I was going .

to it's going .

to increase the dating. That's what for anyone has ever measured PH. What you're really measure is the the the amount hydrogen potent hyg that's A P.

H is right? How to present? There's two definitions of P, H.

but you get as one of the two. So this you tell me this is related to the, the.

the burn. We're going to get close, right? So i've got a bunch of free floating um you got the first faith, which are actually problem to um probably more problem than people realize.

And that hydrogen, what are you going to do with that hydrogen? Well one thing you can do is actually ship put over the parole ate and bond IT there we have a special name of that little molecule. When you have pirelli, you have a hydrogen attached to IT.

You what's called um um hyo gen .

peroxide lack, eight lack, eight lack to get this. Is that whole system right? Again, I was skipping some steps, steps making a little bit of mistakes are intentionally, folks, to make this as him. So what happens when you start running a bunch of anode losses? You start seeing massive rises in lacking cool, not lacked .

to .

get IT, right, right? That's why we see associations between a lot of active and a lot of fatigue. But the light is actually not causing the fatigue. E the like that is actually sparing you from having a mont of free floating acid is also can be then used directly back in the muscle.

Because as soon as you bring in enough oxygen and you can take that hydrogen back off of IT, you've now turn the right back in the pay rov. You can run IT through this whole cycle as fuel. You can actually also ship IT out of the exercising muscle and ship IT into a non exercising muscle, and then go backwards and make books.

What actually liberates hydrogen from from that?

You chemically.

yes. So what? What liberates, uh, what are the stimuli can take hydrogen off the pyre? Vate, yes. And then in other words, to reduce, select and free up .

that hydra able. So in fact, one of the major places that you shape, other than two or one of the major places that you should pack ly to, is your heart, because is what we called the ultimate touch fiber. And IT is has a ton of freely available minor country.

A, would you have a tone of access to oxygen? So we can actually then go to a form water. The issue can be used to form water. And now we have a place to know the hydro en IT, right? cool. So as a result of an robic psychology is we have made a little bit of atp, we've created a lot of waste, and we don't have anywhere to go with these end products.

So when you do anything of a higher intensity and IT says, I need energy fast, you're going to go to this system first, right, right past atp, because IT is the fastest place energy, but you're not going to get much of IT, and you gotta a deal with the waste products bone. Right back to the beginning, our conversation, endurance is about two things, energy production and waste management. And were right, fatigue.

F ferry, this is that right? How well can you handle the elevations in hydrogen? right? Drop in PH. And how, when, what are you going to do these products?

If you want to fully metabolite a carbo, you then have to take some to something with those piero vase or those associated codes, which are going to do if oxygen available, you will take those things and ship them into the medal country. They have to go through some walls and some other things like that, but they're going to get inside there once they're in there. That two carbon eto koa runs to the entire cycle that we call the crab cycle.

That's is really interesting place. That's where b six and eleven people are. Like that's without whole stuff starts to kick in. All your b vo is basically run that entire circle um and you gonna start off the top, you have a bunch of fund stuff going on. But as a part that circle you gonna pull off some some of hydrogen on.

You going to send this to what's called the electron transport chain that we're going to get a ton of ATP out of. And as a result, about half way through the turn, you're going to pull off one carbon and about half way through the other, almost of the way to finish, you going to pull off the second. So you're going to take the second s til coa, run that entire turing same through as well.

And so what we did, we started off the six carbon glues chain. We split in half. We call those.

I made a little bit energy because we broke that one bone of those two carbon there in the middle. Cool those two, three carbon molecules. We pulled one carbon off of each.

We brought in, we, we move those into the mental and re. We brought one off. We took a breath, brought in some oxygen en bond, that breath tucked out to sea to x cells.

We ran the auto code through the crop cycle, one, two carbons per turn coming out of C O two. So we had six carbon totals. We started, we exited with zero carbon. Now we have fully metabolize a molecular hyde that required an analogy start and an a robot finish.

If you don't have a lot of metal and a large market andary high functioning metal contra, you're going to limit your anoroc performance because you're going to get they're going to run that door full very, very quickly. You can't go pass IT because hydrogen will build up way too fast. And one of the things that we know is, well, temperature and P H run and i'm function, so they're going to stop. You only be rebels run through, in fact, that atp hydrology is face. Even if I gave you a whole infinite supply of atp, if I put enough acid and he would stop working because the atp and I needed to split, I won't be able to run in a highly state of environment .

or at a hot environment. Yeah at some point perhaps today, perhaps in the future discussion, but still not too far from now, we could talk about the role of temperature in the in parodi from in terms of its regulation, muscle contraction. But I want to make sure I understood something correctly.

You mention these these two parallel fuel systems, right? One is essentially and arabic c right? And the other is arabic c you said that if we can't pull enough um if we can and break enough bonds, then we limit our anoroc c capacity correct I went have thought given that a the might country of the site for essentially for a robic mentalism, that we would be limiting our ero bic capacity as well. Um perhaps you could just clarify for me how these two things are divided or is there are not a clean division.

not either no effect. I think I think it's Better to think of these things rather as two separate party things, as one big cycle. There's one gear turning, the next being compromised in one will compromise the other.

That I should say reminds me of what you said earlier, which is the bicycle AR analogy that works a great. So if you if you short start at one, basically the the chain can move. That's yeah fantastic. Okay so um so indeed they they are running in parallel, but they are um interdependent. Yeah they're .

actually not even running in parallel because they are actually forming into the same end point, right? Which is like if if you're going to come from the aneroid c lycos is right or you're going to come from the fat road, which all talk about a second, they are both going to be limited in the manor country.

So when that things full, IT doesn't matter, you can't run either system, right? So IT is more of like a again, if you're running the bike gears, IT doesn't really matter if the backward e's larger or smaller because if either one is limited your toast because you're running on the same system. You can you you can speak a little bit here and there, but but you you .

also really niche highlighted how lacked this thing that we think gov as a limiting factor like the burn IT gets in the way and thing we need to stop and buffer and all, all sorts of things. It's actually really a fuel.

It's a it's a tremendously effect of fuel, is a strongly preferred fuel. Actually the is this interesting is a very classic case association correlation of scaur, right? So the original actually like like this is really good history and like day, but he was originally found. I think in germany um part of my history there somewhere in the rope and hunted stacks.

So one of the things that they sort of realized is like we we harvest a stag in a resistant when I didn't know we were there versus if we chased IT and he was round down, that these lack of concentrations were significant higher in the latter situation. Therefore, like tates started immediately gain this association between high fatigue points and IT is easy to measure. If you do do any sort of lactic test, any sort of metabolite you will see as fatigue increases, lactic will also increase.

The assumption there was then, oh my gosh, is the cause. Now we know like again, it's not the thing is it's in large part trying to buffer the negative consequences of atp hydrology is and and some other thing. So IT is certainly playing a part in that role, but IT is not the core driver is also why you don't need to worry about doing things to quote quote um reduce ltd in the muscle after exercise or a clear late or any those things you may still want to do those activities but not for that reason like is fine.

You're actually gna use IT and again, the neighbor exercise muscle fibers in the same muscle, another muscle. You can send IT actually to the um to deliver and I can actually go through google neo genesis and I can actually replanning h liver like a gin, just as I feel. Source are you stand harder, any number of sources you can also discover, put in circulation, put back in the muscle.

And once enough auction is there, you can kick a right back into either glucose ork like a genis. Totally fine. So IT is obviously clear, though once that number gets very, very high, other things are going to be happening that are be causing a lot of hurt.

And this is your managing waste, right? This is really an issue of management. What am I going to do with all this extra carbon? Am I going to do with all the sector, interactive, fast, fit and and some other nasty by products? Um but that's the thing you have to deal with.

I'd love you to teach me how different ratios of fuel sources are used, depending on how long I happen to be exercising. For example, if I do a very short out of exercise, you typically that's correlated with a higher intensity output. I mean, I suppose I could jog for one minute, but here i'm thinking about sprinting for one minute or less.

Which fuels are used? Is that mainly driven by fat stores? By carbo hydrate stores? Is a driven by dietary fat preferentially or carbo hydrates that i've been juster, if indeed i've injured those or protein for that matter? And then as we transition to exercise, that goes a little bit longer, anywhere from, you know, three to five minutes, how do those ratios change? And as we transition to longer duration, what most people think of us in dance exercise, but londres ation output of twenty minutes or more, leading all the way up to full marathon, how does that change the ratio of fuel sources that are used? And i'd be particularly interested in distinguishing between carbo hydrate fat and protein that's ingest, ted. So coming from food sources or carbo hydrates fat and protein that are coming from storage sites within the body.

Okay, great. Let's start at zero seconds and run away with marathon and will flag the distinctions where they start changing. As soon as you want to create muscle contraction of power, the very first source of energy is fossil creating. That's going to power you for zero to maybe, say eight to fifteen twenty seconds of maximum exertion and .

that in coming from the muscle fires themselves .

yeah that is actually stored in that was called the plan. So this is a little area space in the muscle um that sort of like in this jelly like substance. And it's nice because one molecule of Foster creative gg gives you one molecular atp.

So it's not a big energy output, but it's very fast because IT is stored right there in the local exercising muscle right now. If you need energy, pass that point, say ten or fifteen seconds up to maybe a couple of minutes. This is now you're gonna to transition because you onna burn through that fast for creating.

It's going to be out. You're going to have to move to now carbo hydrometer. Abolish m. This is what we call anoroc c GLK calluses. So there's two phases of glass losses. Now glide callosity itself means glucose burning, right? So this means we're using carbon hydrates as a fuel source.

So initially when we start off this cade um which is going to take us again for A A couple of minutes, um carb hydro unitization comes first from the exercising muscles was very so fast for greeting. That way, if you start running low on IT, you can actually start pulling blood glucose and blood glucose low you'll have to start getting GLK agent from the liver to keep that up and we've sort of cover that conversation, right? So a little bit of chemistry here.

Just give me a little bit of of room here. So now remember, a carbohydrates is a carbon molecule that has been hydrated. So one carbon attached to one water and ever water is h two.

Or most of the time we're talking about glucose. IT is in the six carbon chain. So six carbon attached to six water molecules.

Alright, great. When I go to split this up to anoroc c callis, IT works a little bit like this. So you got this six carbon chain. The first step is to snap that thing in half. You're going to make two, three carbon chains. Now we broke one bond right there is so we got a little bit of energy, but not a tremendous amount at the end of an eric click sis, you're onna net, something like three or four atp.

So more than you .

get from the but still not very much. There's another major downside that's coming in a second to this system. The upside is, is fast.

Now why don't actually one adaptation we get to training in this style is you increase your ability to store, package aging in your muscle, which is great, right? We can actually buy up, see you and measure the amount that you store. And a training adaptations is awesome.

So you're able to sustain the system longer. So perhaps ninety seconds into your interview training, you hit a fatigue. Now you maybe can extend that to one hundred, one hundred and fifty seconds simply because you're storing more like A N in the muscle before we have to end, then go into the blood and get up.

And in the former, of course. So that's great. So we ve got this six carbon molecule, and we split this and half.

We got a little bit ATP. And now we're in this little tRicky position because this three carbon molecule is what we call by iva a. And again, chemistry folks, i'm skipping some steps.

I'm going to intentionally make some mistakes here. I'm making sure the entire world listening, regardless of where they come, and can follow me here. Okay, so don't burn me on the details, right? You've got this by uvc.

The problem is you can no longer do anything with that. Licorice is is over. You've got ta make a choice, right? In order to make something out, those three carbon molecules, you've got to shift into the minto country.

As you said, that is the only place of a robic meta ism, right? We cannot do a robotic tables m anywhere else until we enter the mountain counter. So any time we crossed that barrier, we know we've automatically switch from a robot to a robot.

Here is the problem. If you were to take one more carbon off that three carbon by ovate, you have to now do something with that carbon waste. okay? So before when we split the six carbon chain, we didn't actually leave any carbon free floating.

We just split a two molecule on when we go to split from I riv and make IT into this two carbon molecule, calash ual coa or seal coa. Now we've got a free float in carbon. We have to have strategy with that because that's going to increase this city, city level.

Any insigne on our body works to create fuel is very P H sensitive, right? So if this thing, if P H gets off either high or low, these enzymes can't work. And that's really, really important because even if I to give you a direct injection of atp, remember that that energy currency as the only way we can actually form energy.

Um and I get member to clarify any time we're using fast for creating or glue cos or fat, which will get to a second, we're not actually getting energy for exercise by breaking those down. We're getting energy that we can use to then make atp. We break that atp down that was actually powering muscle contraction.

Um you can go back to our previous episodes, you through the detail of the muscle contraction, but that's where after, okay. So in the case of pirogue, if we spot out off, we have got to deal with that. And the only way in the best way we can deal that is oxygen member.

We're gonna be them out to that. O two is gone to combine with that free floating carbon mixi. O to we're gona excel that thing out.

That's our waste. Manage my strategy. But that has to happen in the metal contra. Remember, if we're using oxygen, has to be in the medal contro.

So if we have the ability to ship by rivet into the my country a we're goin. But what happens if we don't? Why do we not?

Well, if we don't have enough metal country or a small country too small or that too far away, or we don't have sufficient oxy availability, why don't have sufficient ox availability? Because we created the parole ate too fast. And the demand in the motor contra is exceeded by the build up of by uva.

And so now we're having this giant backlog and this thing fills up fast. We have a couple of strategies here. Well, when you're going through A, T, P and you're splitting, is all atp hydrastis in of doing that? Remember, atp is a deny molecule.

And then the tea parties try fast, one, two, three, which means three fast face attached. The end when you break that false fade off, that's where you get energy. So now you have an gania false fade.

N A D P. IT doesn't die for speed too. That process requires waters called hydrogen. As a result to that, you then have a free floating hydrogen.

And as you will know, that is asit, right? That's a potential hydrogen. That's what that means.

And so you've increased the acid in the muscle by breaking up all this atp. And so ohh, we're we're building up acid. We have building up by uvay.

We not know where to go with IT, and we can't clive off a carbon because now where is going exacerbate the acid increase. So what we can do is we can take those hydrogen that we're building up and store them on the payroll. E.

A peuvent that's holding an extra asset has a special name, and we call that last date, right? So that's why we see this build up of active. So one of the downsides of anode icicle sis is an incredibly high rate of waste production. Now like IT is not the cause of fatigue.

In fact, if you think a little bit more carefully about what I just said, it's actually stopping you is what we ally acid buffer you can actually use IT for about everything you can ship IT to a neighbor, muscle fiber in the same muscle does not working. You can ship IT to the liver. You can ship IT to the heart in a bunch of weather places, and then you can actually just work backwards.

So if you ship up to, for example, the heart, and it's got a bunch of my a country, they're free. You can bring in the oxygen, attach IT to that hydrogen, make water. And now you ride back to pio v, you put two piroo back together.

And now you just make glucose so you can actually store and the liver. Um this is a good process called globo ian genesis um to this fancy thing called the core cycle, which is what the the the the proper cycle here is. So you can use that as a very power fuel source. In fact, elective is a tremendously valuable fuel source, are only for exercise but for cognition in a butch of other things. So like IT, in fact this is why if you've seen the research about three uh exam testing exercise, um you'll see a noticable increase in exam scores if you do a twenty about of exercise prior to take an exam as largely in part probably because of things like .

elevation is in like date, how intense of exercise would be most beneficial?

I don't know that exact answer. I just know that h generally any form of exercises is good, but if you were to reach A A reason, be high heart rate, you're probably and in fact, there's an acute and rony adaptation here. So folks, that exercise, I have Better of memory, attention, scores, exam sea, but then also doing IT prior to that exam. Actually, you recovered and rested back down the strap, but you'll generally perform Better.

Previous guests on the human in the podcast who the whois, a psychology professor and neurotic scientists, and also deemed of college arts and sciences at new york university. m. Yu, when this U.

G. Is religious about daily morning exercise, yeah, specifically for this purpose of enhancing learning in memory and has a lot of really beautiful data. I consider one of the real pioneers in this space.

Um so if people want to to learn more, they can look to that episode. When these work, we can provide a link to a couple of the papers. but.

This is fantastic and that is an incredibly clear. I think for the first time, i'm understanding what what lacked is really doing and it's dispelling a lot of miss that. I think I and a lot of other people arrive to the discussion about that with what happens when the boat of exercise extends longer.

amazing. So if we want to continue pass that point, we have to have some sort of strategy to get through IT, right? We're stock.

We're out of gas. We have to then ship into the country, country and now we're going to enter what's called a roc black cl thesis. And this is gonna us anywhere from, again, say, that ninety seconds of all at work up to really twenty thirty minutes.

In fact, they really will take us to unlimited. Um if you look at a highly competitive marathon on runner, even those that are running, say your two hour marathon, those folks are burning up to eighty percent carbohydrate IT. IT is IT is not a fat burning thing.

And the reason is fat metabolic is way too slow. IT provides a lot of energy, but IT is incredibly slow. If you're trying to run a four and a half or so minute mile, repeated twenty six times, you have to be moving fast.

Are they ingesting carbohydrate as a fuel source during the race?

Unless you're on team, you don't know, they won't really tell you these ressort of trade secrets. Um I would be I would say fairly rare. Do not have something right. There's little bunch of different strategies.

If you're going to go really long like some of these um like cycling where the races will be made several hours, then you actually might go to some fat as fuel sources. I know a lot of cyclists are using key tons and things like that now, but traditionally most enterance folks are gna buy as heavily towards carbon hydrate. Um now in one respects, you're not going to run on a carbon hyrax until you're many hours in these folks are a unique case.

But the average individual who who's doing an hour our and a half cardio, even you're not going to be limited by your car behind dry stores gonna be just fine. You can be limited by some things which will may be sort of breakdown here a second, but you're gonna fine. A lot of those folks will take carbon yd rates, though very specific ables.

You to you do want to be careful though of ingin too many fast carbon hyrax prior to your exercise ball. Um we have actually have this little thing is called the instant google double ami. What that means is when you ingest carbon hyrax, immediately your blood ghost goes up.

And that's depending on the type of car by hydrate things like that, what the same thing happens with exercise. And so what happens is issuance wants to start pulling lucas out of the blood. At the same time, muscle wants to starting ling good the blood. So we have this giant boss of carbon hydrate come in and then also in our blood sugar crashes.

And so if you're going to be doing so, your first half marathon or something like that, and you're in those giant corals with this, like one hundred people waiting to go in your standing for forty five minutes, you may or may not want to slog down like three or four bananas in a bao and honey and think you probably don't need that. Now not everyone experiences this this double wai, but that has been shown in literature to happen to some people. So you want to just be little bit careful um any easy way to come about that is just practice exactly what you're going to do in your race, in your training. That's the simplest advice ever but you'd be stone how many people do things are during the race that theyve actually ever .

done in training? I suggest people do exactly what you describe also for any kind of cognition of testing here before a big exam is not the time to discover whether not you can handle twice as much as spress so or take a new tropic for the first time or change anything. I mean, if if indeed the score on that exam is is meaningful to you, keep keep things regular.

So to reach up we've done here is we started off in the site pleasant with this google molecule that is six carbon. We took that thing. We split in half.

We call that thing. And eric, like closers, we made a little bit of energy, but not much. We take those three carbon molecules, we ship them into the metal conduit, we take each one of those, we clear off one carbon each, those carbons.

We take a breath, and we attest them to oxyde, and we excel them. Get rid that energy. We are now fully into a rope, the license sis, each one of those two carbon molecules we run through the crib cycle each round the crop cycle burns one, two, carbons.

So we go one, two, one, two. And now we've gone from six carbon molecule all the way down to zero. We used the hydrogen that we pulled off of that corps, like run to go to the electron transport chain.

From there we made a whole bunch of atp. And so we have now fully metabolize one molecule of carbo hydrate. And the end product of all of IT is simply atp, water and seo to beautiful .

and leads me to the conclusion that most everything is really about unitization of carbons and expiring CEO. Two, is that how I should think about book ending.

what you just described? This is why we started off the conversation with the circle of life. This is really a carbon game.

This is why we call, uh, chemistry with carbon organic chemistry. That's what this whole thing is about. Any living being has to run through metabolic.

It's all a carbon game. Any liming being has u atp. This is all just a big fancy game of how do I make A T, P.

And handle the ways. Remember, endurance is all about waste management for tie resistance. The same thing, an energy production. We're playing a game here. The whole game, bring an energy use IT mitigate waste products.

So when thinking about arabic exercise or londres ation exercise, in this case, anything longer than five minutes for that man, if five minutes all the way up to have an ultramarathon. The breathing associated with dann exercise, the heart beating, which of course is associated the breathing and vice versa. It's really all about bringing oxygen into the system that then allows us carbons to be used and within the market, convery specifically and then carbon dioxide to be explained, ed, as we work through the carbon on the sort of beds on a string, is that right?

Unless you're moving incredibly fast for a very long time and were talking probably north of ninety minutes, endurance is really not a game of making sure I have ugh, fuel IT is simply managing the waste production, and that's exactly what you described. You need to bring in the oxygen so you can handle the carbon that's building up as a real of worthy anio bic anio bic like colosse. That's our game here.

If we start talking and durance even longer than that now, we do have to start worrying about running out of muslim like in running out of liver like a gen etr, or if we are at the two hour markers. So we were moving very, very, very fast. But anything south of that is just managing carbon alda, and we do that best through auction utilization or getting more efficient and having a higher capacity for our aneroid c side.

So we can do that by having either more like a genre or muscle so that last longer or building Better acid buffering systems. And there's a whole line of supplementation that are specifically acid buffers as a whole line of training. There's a whole line of breathing to manage this step.

So we have a lot of strategies. We can maximize and dance all we have to do and go back to the earlier part of our talk, which is figure out what the actual limiting step and then train according to that. Or do your strategy, nutrition, your supplementation, that defeat that limiting factor.

For example, if you are trying to maximize your performance in this twenty second maximum burst and your strategy for that was to make sure your muscle package and is saturated, it's probably not going to help with them because you're not going to be limited by total fuel. You're going to be limited by your ability to buffer acid, however, storing more like a in your muscle in preparation for a marathon is a tremendously effective strategy because that will become a limiting factor. So what we can do actually next, if you like, is we can just walk through these and look at the individual limitations where the failure point happens, and then that effectively will outline your strategy for improving them.

So you taught us about carbo hydra utilization as a fuel source. What about fat and what about protein?

great. I'll start with protein because it's easy. IT is generally at the best going to represent ten percent of your energy output.

Now that will grow over time in terms of if you did a several hour out of exercise, uh, when you started doing IT, you might be using five percent of energy from protein and that mike rode ten or so. And that happens because you start running low on muscle like agen, you start running low on liver bike agen. You start then having to pull in energy from another place.

So like as those numbers go down, you will see an increased uptick of energy from fat as well as protein. Having said that, it's not a tremendous fuel source. IT is only a robic, so that has to be oxide ed.

Those are the same thing when I say oxydized, you use oxygen to burn something to to make a feel. So it's not a significant tributor to energy in that regard. And unless you're talking ultramarathons are longer and IT is also not something that can enhance performance.

And so we don't really, really talk much more about IT than that um in terms of fat as a fuel source. Now here's a fundamental difference. While carbon hydrate starts and robotic and finishes a oboes ally in the medal country, you're using mostly the carver hyde rate in the exercising muscle tissue.

Eventually you can pull from blood, and then you can pull from the liver with fat. You have a tiny amount stored in the muscle entry, muscle trial strike. But the overwhelmed majority of fuel you get from fat comes systemically. And so now we have a fundamentally, we actually literally have a time problem. I can get energy from carbon hydrate faster because IT is directly there.

If I go to pull let from fat, i've got a pulled from the rest of body, which is why somebody who loses fat loses IT from their entire body, despite the fact that they may be only exercising a couple of parts. So think about a runner, someone who lost a lot of fat running, you don't see them just lose fat of their lives. IT comes from their face and their neck and everywhere.

why? Because what you're going to do is pull fat from the entire system. You're going to break IT down through a process called life policies, which is means you break IT down from the stored form.

Um you put IT in the blood as that list of all backbone, which is that three carbon in the individual fat assets it's gonna float for the blood. There's a seven step system here but will skip IT for now. It's going to have to get them up taken into the muscle in the muscle, then I have to get taken up and run into the my country.

Now that backbone, that three carbon laser al backbone, is actually going to function almost exactly like the three carbon by ovi. Just get IT in the my country, a clear off off when carbon running is as to go, but being possible exact same thing, super easy to metabolite, small enough to go through my country of the fatty as the change become a problem. So if you have a chain that's longer um there are eight or so carbon IT has to actually go through a special transport on the same world to get in.

And that's going to be limited by a thing called carney. And you're probably familiar that as a supplement you've may have talked about, there's a lot of places that make up um that's going to be a limiting factor. If IT is a smaller uh, what we call a short chain or even a medium chain, that s right, which a lot of folks effort of M C T, that's we're talking about that can actually go directly through because it's smaller of the pass through and you can use that immediately.

Any source, in either case, the way that you finally mutabilities a fatty acid is a process where you would go through and cut off two carbons at a time. Why would you cut off to? Because you're trying to make that two carbon asset to go so you can run through that creb cycle again because you're cutting off two carbons at a time.

We have a special name for that oxidation process. It's called beta oxy ation. That's exactly why we call IT beta oxidation, two carbon zon.

You cut IT off to make that also take away. So you can notice the oxide pathway, the electron transport pathway, is identical, whether you're talking about the carbon high rates or the fat. In fact, IT doesn't even matter more to our point in for talking about simply fat loss.

IT really just is about running that electron transport chain. Whether IT came from a carbo hydrates or original source or a fat original source, IT ends up in the mother country as basically exact same thing. IT then ends the end of metabolism as the same thing.

Remember, the final end point of carbohydrate metabolism is water, atp and C O two. Do you want to guess the final end point of fat metabolism? Water, A T P and c oto? So practical applications here, if you want to max my spat loss, what type of training is best?

IT really doesn't matter if you enjoy longer steady states of fantastic, if you enjoy innovations amazing, if you would like to do accommodation ation, that's my personal preference. That's great too. You have a ton of options.

Pick what you think is a combination of chAllenging. Not all exercise should be easy, but you will actually enjoy someone or you're willing to accept. And anything that you absolutely hate don't do.

IT sometimes is very, very, very difficult to do high intensity training, you have to really be interested in doing IT. If not, that ends up turning in the like. Moderate intensity training, you sort to just check the box and IT doesn't work that well if you're just checking the box.

So if you like men mentally, I don't have IT in me today to get through a high heart rate and throw up and all that stuff. cool. But you can discuss some moderate study day stuff without a win.

Great, if you like. Oh my gosh, more than ten straight minutes and i'm so bored and you're all maybe you're also like, I don't have forty five minutes. I gotta get this done at eight minutes.

great. Good to some hind intense herbals. Either option will be equally effective.

as you mentioned earlier, exercises useful for aesthetic changes, functionality and for lunch gravity. But when thinking about exercise specifically for fat loss, I do have to ask this question. I often hear from people that they prefer one type of exercise verses another for sake of fat loss, because certain forms of exercise make them very hungry.

I'm wondering whether there is any relationship between the intensity or type of exercise and the hunger stimulus. Now I don't have this problem because basically everything makes me hungry, and yet i'm also OK fasting for part of the day. Yeah, i'm one of those suu intervention investors talk about what I mean that I just have e between eleven m and A P M.

naturally. I'm not religious about IT, but but I don't do IT for any other reason except that, that tends to be when i'm hungry in exercise outside of that in the morning. Typically in any is there a way that people can determine what type of exercise might be Better, worse for them based on its appetite stimulating or inhibitory effects? Because I also hear that know some people go for a long run and then they are going not hungry for several hours afterwards. Does that have anything to do with which fuels are being utilized during different forms of exercise?

That's actually really good question. I don't know the the mechanisms I can explain that answer. What I can tell you is you had the same comment for physical activity.

In other words, people say, man, if I do this type of training, then I just am exhausted and I lay around the rest the day. So my total chLorine c expenditure is actually compromise as an aggregate because i'm down um the data would suggest in general that doesn't happen. So most of the time we don't see reduction in physical activity um with either high intensity or study day training.

In fact, you generally see uh equal, if not increased or what's called need so then not an exercising party your day um in addition to the basis of meta right. So activity way you do not set to be right now, hunger is a little bit of a different thing. The answer here is I don't think we have time to actually do justice on this. So perhaps best to not get into this one.

Why don't we put this down the road to our discussion about nutrition specially and and we've back to this. So we will hear market for that. Um meanwhile, IT sounds like if one is thinking purely in terms of burning calories yep, and getting the health benefits of exercise to create a org deficit to create fat loss IT doesn't matter whether not they burn those calories using a form of exercise that relies predominantly on carbon hydrate, fat or protein. correct.

It's not that IT doesn't matter is that either one will work because when we say things like that, it's IT doesn't think they are actually identical. There are some slight differences and maybe those differences are important for some people and not others. All that says either one is a viable strategy.

great. What about protein as .

a fuel as an actual feel? So here let me give you an analogy. Imagine that you are you were with me a few weeks go in southern montana and we are out um in the wildness for a week, kay, and it's called out there and you needed to make a fire.

And if I said, look, you can pick any of these things there. There are some wood over there. We brought some newspaper and then we brought a match, and we need to create fire.

He, is that fire the energy and heat up. okay? I said, great. The very first place you would probably start to make that fire is the match you like to match.

And any match a, it's going to light immediately, but it's probably only last five to twenty seconds. I know before IT burns out, that's fast for creating real fast, real burns up. If you were smart, you would take that match and then light the newspaper on fire.

Right now, if you were to burn home newspaper, uh, IT is more energy than you get to the match, but you still, you know, I don't know what's going. Na, take a few minutes, some number of minutes before in time burns up, right? dependent.

Which type newspaper is, I guess, right? amazing. That's carbon hydrate, right? If you were really smart, you would use, that said, then, light of piece of wood on fire.

And I would, if you've been in the world and is IT last hours, this is really quite unlimited. Your fossil creating storage is very limited. Small pyke agen is a lot higher because you can store in mostly you can store in other places.

So you have more, but not a lot. Fat is unlimited. The average person, if you're on, say, seventy kilos up hundred and seventy pounds or so, and you're moderately, then maybe fifteen percent body fat. Nothing crazy.

You probably have enough stored fat to create enough energy is to survive for more than thirty days, right? This would literally be, if you injured zero calories, you have enough fuel in your stored fat to keep you alive for certainly thirty days. You can feel good all those things.

But energetically, basically, fat will never, ever be a limiting factor performance. So when we start talking about what limits my performance in these areas, you can just wipe that off the list. IT will never beer limiting act or to any type of injuries performs.

You simply have wait too much. The only problem with that is, is just too slow. I've gotten mobilize IT. I've gotta get in the blood move, in that whole fact, too slow.

So if I want to go faster, I will never be able to fully utilized fat, which is why we talked about earlier, you'll never see a situation in which somebody is one hundred percent burning the fats of fuel and no percent carbon hydrate. It's always going to be too slow. Hi s, you will get maybe seventy seven percent protein in this equation. Is none of that. Now you may notice, how do you make paper?

Is a five versions with water that you IT gets pressed, compressed?

Yeah, yeah. It's made from wood. Have you make a match? Is made from wood. What's carbon hydrate? A chain of carbon was fat.

A chain of carbon? These are similar molecules, right? They are meant to give you post in cons is very difficult to just light a log on fire without a lot of working up to burn, burn, burn, burn, burn.

So these are complimentary systems that are really close to the same thing. Protein is none of those things. Protein is more like a piece of metal.

So if you were out in the woods with mean and we were trying to make a fire, and you like, hey, look, I found some old, uh, railroad over there. Let's throw that on there. I would probably look at you like you not technically, can you melt metal? sure.

But you're gonna burn a lot of energy to try to get a little bit back out of middle. And now you've also cost yourself a very, very valuable structure. So protein as a fuel source for exercise or metabolite is an incredibly poor choice.

Your body will do IT again, maybe five to ten percent. But you now you're burning a very valuable supply in a situation you don't know where there's ever gonna anymore. Remember, protein is fairly transient, is you're not very good storing IT.

You can store a ton of carbon hydrate and an unlimited, literally amount of fat. So you just really need to disregard thinking about protein as a fuel source. Your body does not want to do IT.

You are not good at IT. You can go through a process of local neo genesis from protein make locals from IT is just very poor. You're not going to get much out of the exchange and you've burned your supply of medal, which is going to be very difficult. Um it's a very high commodity in the woods or the wilderness to have something like .

metal for people that consume very low carbon hydro zero carbon hydrates diets. Are they pulling more energy from muscle so which I imagine is a conversion of the mino acid into ready carbon .

chains yeah I mean, this particular case, once you've reached uh a certain level of the adaptation, you've just gotten extremely good at generating clue from other fashioned, right, so you can buy as heavily towards fat adaptation. The downside is, and we've seen this born in literature, you're going to perform slower. So if you don't care about maxims ing performance, especially over something where IT is a maximum effort for a few minutes or something, then maybe you're not concerned and and that's absolutely and especially for people just don't exercise, then hey, she's very little concern here.

But if you are interested in your performance and you're wondering why you're just like slug IT down, well, what you've done as you've down regulated the ability literally the end i'm responsible for that entire and oic like callis portion, they get down regulator, which means there's not as much around anymore. And so you get really bad and slow using carbondale if feel sorry. So is a very poor strategy for people on an android based sport or who like that type of activity can if you don't care, no problem.

Um if you don't access at all, then you really have no problem there, which is actually why a high fat low car behind nutrition strategy for people who don't do much physical activity is probably like that is very effective IT. IT is a really good strategy for weight management for energy stabilization throughout the day. And the research would very much support that.

In my observation, I would agree. I've tried, look, harbor hydrate diatom, severely limiting or completely limiting carbo hydrates. And after about two or three days, I feel pretty loud, but mostly because I want to train very intensely in the gym.

In addition to doing longer runs, i'd tend to do all of those things across the week. But i've also observed and in fact no several people that love the very low carbon hygienic type diet. They're not doing k genet diets for mental health reasons per say.

Um but indeed those people tend to do very limited exercise or they tend to do a lot of long, enduring, but low intensity, long, enduring. These are the i'd walk to get my exercise types and they do indeed walk a lot and some of them match control their weight very readily and like that diet. For that reason, when we had any more on the podcast, he pointed out, quite apply that in order to lose weight, you have to restrict something, course, time or macro nutrients instead are to arrive at that subclass through asia ld get below that. That's a submitted threshold.

I guess one of the things I want to point out is this should be received as, again, not a, this is Better or worse. This is this, you now have a ton of options. So whatever personal preference, other factors you get to craft this strategy of performance, esthetics and health based on your personal preferences .

at this point, i'd like to go back to our classic list of nine adaptations that exercise can induce. The first four, of course, being largely, largely unrelated to today's conversation, but that were covered in the episode that we did on strength, speed. And so just remind people the nine adaptations are, number one skill and techne.

Two speed, three power, which is speed, time, force, four strength and five hypotheses. Y today we're talking about the remaining adaptations on that list, starting with muscular endurance, followed by anoroc c capacity, followed by maximum arab c output, and finishing at number nine with london ation exercise. So if we could start with muscular endurance, this would be number six on the list of nine adaptations, muscular endurance.

How do I build muscular and dance? Why should I build muscular and dance? And just to remind me, what fuel sources are predominating when i'm training for muscular and dance.

great. So remember, muscular and enterance is something that's going to be generally in a local muscle. IT is not a cardiff asked or systemic issue. And IT tends to be something in the neighbourhood of, say, five to maybe even after fifty repetitions.

So this is the classic example give here is how many push ups can you do in a rope? Most people are going to lend somewhere that range. I just said, how many setups can you do in a minute and how many pull ubs? How long can you hang on a bar? Um is a dead hang, things like that.

That's musin durance musical and dance is not a mile run, are marathon that. So how long can I stand without breaking posture? This is moskin .

turns a plank .

of walls IT. great. Yes, love all these things. okay. Now the reason I took you on that big, long metabolic journey is so I could help you understand exactly how to train this factor.

Any these factors with a more comprehensive understanding was happening, meeting, thinking back the metabolic. If i'm going to ask my try steps to do fifty push up in a row, what's going to be my limiting factor? And I gonna run out of fat, no chance.

And I going to run out of gluggish. No chance, that way too few of repetitions. Do you have a lot? ugh.

Ter, so what's going to be the thing that stops me from getting fifty one repetitions? Either you're gonna have too high of A P. H.

rise. So too much as they build up. Or you're going to have a problem clearing the waste.

So really, this is two factors dealing with us to build up and getting acid out of the muscle tissue and in the circulation because you have plenty of ability handle that small amount of acid build up in your entire body. Is this, you can handle IT in that tiny spot. Now, I picked the choice up for a very specific reason.

You're gonna deal with more pain when you use a large muscle group, like your quotes, your glue, and you are a small muscle. For example, nobody ever threw up after ARM day, but a lot of people threw up after leg. 对。 Why is that? Look at the total antares that you're dumping in your system.

When you have quite group or ten x, the muscle size, small muscle groups are only really going to be chAllenged in that local area. Large ones will dump so much waste into the system that you want to avoid that as quickly as possible. And that's one of the reasons why you throw up after hard exercise. great. So the reason .

of living, because I don't think i've ever thrown up from a way training session and so it's making me wonder if i've ever trained that hard I received uh or obtain the progress that i've wanted to generally over time, not every week, every work out every month, but certainly over the thirty plus years that I am way training, i've achieved the results i've wanted. I have, however, vomited after a long run when I didn't hydrate. Well, sure if I drink too much water.

Sure oh, sure. Too much water. yeah. You get .

that aware. And I think picture that if they're not vomiting after they are leg workout, that they're not training according to your standards. Again, by the way, darker and Robin runs experiments in his lab, is recruiting subjects also known .

as my graduate students.

And right IT, sorry to interrupt, but I felt there was a necessary and interrupt t so muscular endurance. There's plenty of fuel.

plenty of few. You manage acid dot up and you also need to get that fuel at you. That's going to be a capitalization issue.

So the way that we can think about this is capital ies surround your muscle, and the whole point of them is so that blood can come into them. They hit this capitalization that actually slows the diffusion rate of blood down. And so you can exchange neutrals in and get waste products out, and then we get things back into regulation.

So the more of those you have, the Better you are at dispersing any these waste products built up either CEO to or the asset. So the adaptation you're looking for here is an increase in capitalization, potentially a slight increase in my contra, but the time is too fast, right? So we're gonna able to need to do these fifty repetitions and say, under a minute or something like that.

So getting the mobilization into the meta country, getting fuel that way too slow. It's not really gonna get our performance here. So water strategies to increase acid buffering ability and the capitalization. So on the capitalization side, you simply need to train at that ability so you go close to failure and practice that often that alone will incase increase blood flow to the local area, which will get take you through your process of increase in captivation easy, easy specificity in there.

I just a briefly in trb, I find IT remarkable, although not surprising, giving how amazing the human body is, that simply by doing some movement, repeat like a wall set or a uh or pushups or tips for that matter, daily over and over over until you reached that failure point. There were that quaking point in the case of a wall set that provides a stimulus for more capitalists to be built into the system, literally the the production or the um the trafficking of endothelial cells, which to makeup the capitals and allow basic more little pipes to feed the system with oxygen and remove waitee products.

It's segregation. Imagine how a giant field had two big pipes staring down the side. Well, in fact, if you want to make sure water gets even disbursed, ross, entire field, you'll have a bunch of off shooting little pipes. And the more those you have, the more coverage you get.

Do we know what the the specific signal is that says, hey, I failed at this. We need more capitals .

actually don't know what that is. I could I would speculate its combination of um account as well as carbon dioxide de and probably some metric oxides stuff happening there. But I actually don't know.

i'm guessing nobody knows for sure because we sold on know for instance, what the exact signal is for hypocrisy. It's kind of an amazing situation. We know the requirements for getting the result we want.

Yeah, but we still don't know what the specific signal is. In any event, what i'm hearing is building more capital ies is great for enhancing muscular endurance. And the way to get more capitalists into those muscles is to train for muscular by getting close to failure or at some point where you simply can't continue for whatever reason.

Could you give us an example of what a reasonable training protocol might be in terms of the classic group in this now and exercise choice? Maybe a few um options, order volume and frequency. What should we be doing? How often should we be doing? IT and france inch, I do wales to failure and pushups to failure. Given that this is a local process, i'm guessing that if I do, push ups to failure are not going to increase the number .

of capillaries in my legs. Very much correct. So you know that exercise choice is high precision here.

So pick the muscle group and the exact sequencing and movement pattern. You want high precision. This is a thing.

If you wanted a Better to plan, hold the plan. You can do more. Push PS to do more.

Push PS, you can do some other stuff at complimented tary. But really, this is a high precision game. Do the exact same thing for exercise choice. Very simple there.

Okay, in terms of exercise order as well as this, have tails with volume. yeah. Can I combine training, let's say wall sits for my quad and you know nearby muscle groups and then do push ups to failure uh and then also do some sort of um pulling exercise to failure? Yes, absolutely. Again.

pick the exercises you want, the movement patterns you want to do, and do them. The order almost doesn't matter with the one caveat with larger muscle groups, particularly against multiple lag activities that will induce a small amount of systemic fatigue.

And so if you, I guess, theoretically, they wanted to maximize your push shop number and you did a whole bunch of saying split squad um and you just did those and and you you know did lunches for a mile or something like that, you might actually slightly compromise. You might not, but you might slightly compromise your ability to do as many pulpits and arrow or hold A A bent over over something like that. So if you're really cared about that level um then you may be wanted. Do the thing that's most important. First, in general, my recommendation is to do the bigger muscle group first.

How many sets and how often should one perform training for musical insurance? And when? Now the .

lovely part here is we've moved down the spectrum. Past hypocrisy. You don't need a lot of load here. In fact, the load only needs to be at or slightly above what you want to move.

So if you want to get Better at moving fifty percent of your one max, you don't really need to train much more than fifty, maybe fifty five or sixty percent of your one or max. Because if you go higher than that, the repetition comes going to fall and you're no longer going to be training mosques. So you just need to stay right around that number that you want to work on.

So again, if the target is doing more pulps and assuming that you have the strength to do IT and you check that box, you simply need to practice the repetition range that you want to be in. That's all that takes. You can repeat that a number of times, but because remember, the volume is fairly low, the load is very, very low.

You can actually repeat this quite frequently. So you won't get extremely sore from moscow dance relative to traditional hypertrophy because the load is very, very light. So you can do this more frequently if you would like.

More frequently, such as you could do a three .

or four times a week, easy. If you would like, you don't necessarily need three days a week for a muscle group is probably fine here. Um if you wanted to do more sets on a given day and do less days, that would be fine.

So if you want to do two days a week and you say wanted to do, let's say you can do twenty five pushups and the goal is to get to thirty put shops as example, you might say, okay, i'm GTA duce sets of seventeen and i'm going to do three sets of that. I'm going to that three days week that's gona build up quite a bit. Or you can say, look, i'm going to do a set basically a failure. I'm going to recover and do one or two set that, say, eighty percent, and i'll do that twice a week that's going to push th Epace p arty. Well, you're going to have a lot of gains from that.

And again, this is not about hyper gravy, this is about muscular endurance. So I do want to emphasize and again, please correct me if i'm talking out of lying here. Do you want to emphasize that because we mentioned pull ups, if you can't get twenty five pulled ups then and you're doing ten, you're training for hypertension. If you're not training for moscow endurance.

remember there's a big cross over here. So anytime we're talking past like fifteen reps were technically in hypertension and moscow to so here's a common mistake. I don't want to get bulky, so i'm i'm going to go lighter and do more reps and then people .

grow and then you landed still right.

the middle type tree, right? So like everywhere, like, oh my gosh, like every time I lived with that, I blow up like a lighter. I do you're still right in iberis.

They'd actually be much Better off training, very, very heavy in the one to three reference. They get really strong and they wouldn't grow much exactly. So tell me if this is a reasonable protocol for what i'm gona call the typical person in my mind, the typical person, somebody who hopefully is doing resistance training, hitting that ten sets per muscle group per week minimum to maintain our build strength and hyper traffic, but is also doing some long duration training that will talk about a little bit, maybe throwing in high intensity work out here.

There some springs, maybe some pya tricks, some skill base training and doing a bunch of different things you to be what I would go all around fit. They're not training for any specific event or trying to maximized any one of the nine adaptations to the exclusion of the others. That person decide okay, after um they do their longer run, they're gona do a max time, a plank to max duration. They're going to walk system exploration and you do push up to the extortion and then also do that same work out before they do their high intensity interview training some other point during the week and then maybe even do IT uh again um on their uh so called rest day, just a real quake in five minutes. And in doing so, build more capillaries into the relevant muscle groups and build their muscular and dance, but without eating into their .

overall recovery. Too much, too much. yes. So the nice part about this not have you too much, you commendation sort.

If you keep the load light, the only switch i'd make there is I would probably do them after you're interview rather than before so you can make sure you keep quality there and you're not compromised by a local muslim and dance when you actually trying to get a more systemic fatigue with something like a hand and city international train. So that would work fantastic. The only other variable we haven't in on heroes progression. And this is very simple, try to add a report two per week that's really I have to go after. So if you're up to twenty two this week, try to twenty three next .

week for wall sits and planks that would .

be at IT at time time. And if and if you run into a wall there, just like the same concepts we talked about was string that I put me back and down, the more like in the eighty or eighty five percent range and accumulate a lot more practice, that's going to help a lot with capital ization as well as asked buffering. So you're onna, continue to give yourself signals for up regulation um of the processes is needed for that and it's not always pushing you to the end failure, just like we don't want to always go to failure with strength. We do not always go to failure with intense generals either same thing would be happening here.

What about aneroid capacity? How should people train for ana robic capacity? What exactly are they training for? Meaning what is the structural or seller adaptation or adaptations that are occurring that allow for increases in roic? And why are increases in energy bc capacity good for us? Even if where a quote, quote index athlete or we are a recreation exerciser who is not interested in building more muscle speed or things that I typically associate with ana robic capacity yeah.

So this is really, really fun. Remember, aneroid capacity is a total amount work you can do for something like seconds to a few minutes. This is extremely high levels of fatigue, the highest you're really going to see.

And by fatigue here, I mean, as IT build up my products, not fatigue in, like mentally, and I want to do this anymore. So if we just think about the energy act for second, i'm gna do say, h, let's take a really easy example of people. I've done that thing where you are, you'll go to the track and you sprint the straight away and you walk the corners.

Remember that sort of the thing you tobi thirty one thirty of things like this. Like this is what we're talking about um in this kind of anna bal capacity area. Now here's what going to happen.

Is fat going to be you're limiting? No, we are already made that clear, right? What about car height rates? Well, if it's a single belt or two or three belts, probably not. But if you're doing this for a long time, so you going to go thirty one thirty off for twenty rounds, you may actually start reaching a point of running on, I must have I get them in any those cases. So you're going to be running into an acid problem.

If you were to continue to do this multiple repetitions in addition to running on most, you're also going to start running into oxyde transportation problems because you're building up a lot of bioproducts. You got got to continue. You will actually cruise into a rope pilot.

Sis, this is exactly why the community that I have worked a lot with, professional fighters, very high little boxers, world champions, you have see fighters. IT is a five minute round that you are going to do five times this for world champion of five to get one minute break between. So imagine going like thirty on, thirty off, or five minutes, getting a one minute breaks in doing that five times, even though the individual belts are thirty seconds long, the entire thing last so long.

IT is primarily a robot. You have to have both capacity, get a really high and robot. You also have to have a lot of a robot going on. You how are you're going to start running into limitations because of heart rate, stroke volume and then even potentially veneration, the need for action to be able to comment and clear the carbon oxx?

I totally out of the system becomes a problem because not only are you having so much build up for such a long time, you're also using multiple muscle groups. So now this is a very import stack tion. Most enterance tends to be localized.

Now this is not right. If you're doing these innovations, you're on a sult bike, you're sprinting up a hill, you're grappling with somebody, you have a lot of muscles being involved, which means all that way is being dumped into the central part. You have to clear, and i'm by clear, I not mean not out of the muscle, I mean out of the body.

So your ability to bring in a utilize oxyde is going to be a major limitation, do you believe, to handle list? So what do you do? Well, specificity wins. Practice the exact thing you're talking about.

So if you want to get Better at spring, the straight ways, and what can the corners do that you can always do IT, though we've gonna run in the limitations. So this is when backing off to a lower intensity is going to give you a lot of benefits. We know very clearly if you want to improve cardiovascular high intensity, moderate intensity and low intensity effective, and you actually probably want to do a little bit of all of them.

This is why none of our fighters, whatever, just do high intensity training, there is going to be some moderate. We tend to call this like cardiac output training. Um you can think of this as like anywhere between the zone two to zone four. If you like zones, I don't use them personally.

So i'm just going to intentionally interpret you because this issue of zones has come up a few times and I want to make sure everybody's on the same page. You also mention that you don't necessarily favor of the zone nomenclature, but for those not familiar, zone one, two, three, four, all the way up to five is a of back of the envelope type verbiage for some people, and is more precisely followed by for other people.

Meaning for me, zone one is simply walking, easy walking. Zone two would be, for anybody, th Epace o r i ntensity o f e xercise t hat o ne c ould p erform w hile s till m aintaining a c onversation, but just barely. Meaning, if you were to push any harder than you would be difficult to hold that conversation.

Then you've in zone three, and then zone three, four, five, as I understand them are a little bit ague, but maybe you could give us a sense of the breathing patterns associated with each of the zones so that people could map to those when we discuss zone one through five. Um and as I say all this, I certainly um tip my hat to all of those people out there who like to measure percent of maximum heart rate. They like to use heart rate monitors.

They're using any number of different devices. I sometimes use those devices, but in general I tend not to and I use my breathing as a rough guide of which zone. I mean, so before we go back to specific protocols for in a robic capacity, tell me how you think about zone one through five and how people might be able to assess whether not there in zone two, three or four or five.

great. So zone five is that absolute top thing. And we can flag ourselves there. I like tell you, flag one into the distinction to between three, four and five. I am less concerned with either. We will do some hard rate stuff, but not to identify what zone run um the fact is the distinction between those zones is basically just made up right that not that it's fake but that is no like rational out there.

It's a little bit like perceived effort and weight lifting you know how are you at one hundred percent output or seventy percent? You know when you're at zero and you know when you're at one hundred in that moment, what the difference between sixty and seventy is any boy's guess today?

So we use all the relevance, right? So why is matter from sixty or seventy? Is there actually your first? There's not right. That doesn't really matter in that regard.

If you are a very highly trained, particularly cyclist, things like that then and you can control a lot of circumstances, those things start to make a lot more sense. But when you're an open environment like the ethics ideal with IT is not it's not going to matter that much. So um the way that I approached this is and I will use this word intentionally stolen directly from brian Kenny and his company shift adapt.

They use what's called a gear system. And I absolutely love IT. It's what would be using for a long time. So with brian, with your permission.

I wants to take IT now. Thank you. Thank of hours. And I do think the breathing gear system is a terrific way to think about the zones and to get a good sense of what zone one happens to.

Yeah great. So um the first year is your ability to simply in and out through your nose at a set cats. So basically regardless of how harder working can you restrict your breathing to like a two to three second in hill, and then I two to three second x hell.

And this is really were actually because a lot of folks will jump immediate into an over breathing strategy. Was meant to be venues more than you need, which actually sends that are are up higher that IT needs to be, which kicks you higher into carbo hydra utils ation. If you're supposed to be in quote, quote zone one, you're trying to be efficient, not fast.

So using more carbon hydrate than you need is not beneficial. Here you're walking for the day you're out on a longer, high, early and enjoying the day. You shouldn't be trying to ramp up carbon. Dermot ables, this should be efficient.

And so this would be getting into an argument with somebody, while on a long walk you feel exhausted after the over breathing.

Yeah, so so you should be able to break that a specifics. Generally people um doing that more frequently than than they need right zone two um rather gear to is inhaling and expiring at whatever rate you needed to be but still naseer only so what is a force, right? Whatever you need to do but your mouths is close entire time, you shifted higher up.

You're burning more and more carbon hydrate as a fuel source, and but you're still able to control that in restricted in nasal breathing. Now gear three and four, which is our final ones, there was known gear five, gear uh, three and four is like A A solo drinks. And actually, do you care about the difference there? I basically use your one, two, and then that's four. But you're basically talking about either a nose to mouth strategy or a straight up mouth mouth, right?

So breathing through the nose, out through the mouth.

if you didn't control that way, you can do the opposite, actually. Can you breathe in and out of your nose? But the classic one of people who was into the nose, out of the mop. And again, I think you care about distinction.

I basically jump from to the four a brian may do definitely I don't actually know um four is just mouth mouth, right? And this is a case in most sporting applications, you going to be breathing because the nose is restricted, right? There's only so much space. And as we talked about earlier, the consequences of not having enough oxygen or seal to acceleration, if you're restricting that, this is going to be problematic.

So in your actual competition, please go to the mouth if you need to, right? We practice a lot trying to stay as as lonely for as long as possible um but that's going to eventually happen when you're doing your high intensity nervous and you're really going as hard as you can. You're gonna have to go to your mouth unless you're an absolute free cao ID you can say in your nose but that's not going to happen, right?

Most people can't get past say seventy or eighty percent while breathing there, you knows um I know some people get higher, but that's the general distinction. So we pay much more attention to those particular gears. Then we do heart raise .

zones and zone five would be just pure mouth breathing all out your life.

The gear system is just wonderful. There is no fifth gear got IT. So the gear for would again be mouth mouth reading as much as you can.

Anything as much as you can out got IT. And I I appreciate your description of of the gear system and how IT um roughly relate to the zones we've been talking about also um in reminded if anyone wants to experience the relationship between breathing in the offloading of common dioxide and your ability to exert effort in anything.

A game that a friend of mine sometimes like to play when we walk or jog and talk is he'll say, let's just hold our breath now until we hit that piling or that um uh lifeguards stand on the beach and within seconds you actually can start a panic also becomes very hard to coordinate your action after a while again, be really careful with this. But but I will teach you in a moment in a very real world way how important this is to be able to offload coming to oxy because you're probably not running out of xian at those lower intensities. You're simply building up carbon oxide and that gas brief likes a screaming to go off and you're actively suppressing.

So the interesting test here is your seal to tolerance on ryan's website and go directly. There you can. There's a video to how to run this test and then you can put in your numbers, and I will tell you this sort of exactly what to do as a result of that.

But the suit tolerances is a test of exactly what you just mention. So you should be fairly tolerant and other was nonreactive you can be responsive but nonreactive two elevations in C O two so you should see them and feel them, but you should be choosing how you respond rather than and reaction. Um there are interesting data looking at things like out of the blue panic attacks, you can actually notice those in blood via rises in C O two up to forty five minutes prior to the event of happening.

So there are signals happening in your body um that you may be sensitive or not sensitive to the more into you you can get with that, the Better your life is going to be. And even if we're specifically just talking about to exercise performance, so it's okay for seal to the rise, it's going to rise. It's a by product of anos ano meta list is a by product of carbohydrate and fat.

It's going to get there. You're going to feel that. However, if you immediately going into a panic because of a small increasing sea too, this is a problem.

So we're turning to anthropic capacity this morning. We are training not together. I could not keep up with your work out what I, but in the same general space.

And I did my, once a week, maximum heart rate one minute print on the assad bike. Sometimes i'll doing more minutes, meaning I will do a one minute, then take some rest and do another minute after some rest. But I decided to do that one minute with you there so I could learn from you.

And indeed, I have to assume that that was largely within the ana robic capacity um realm. The first thirteen seconds or so were manageable. We get more and more painful.

There was a quit signal going off in my head. You said there is real magic that occurs around second forty. And indeed, somewhere around second forty, for whatever reason, seemed be easier.

But at the one minute, mark, I was happy to stop because I was really at at least what failed to me one hundred percent output. Is that a good protocol for building up in a old capacity? Keeping in mind what you said before, which is that specificity, our precision, as you raised IT, is important.

That is, if I want to train in our capacity for sprinting, I probably should have been sprinting, cycling, I was was only a salt bike and so on. How many of those one minute all out springs or thirty second all out springs on on the bike could ensure one perform per workout and per week? So marching through exercise choice, yes, um order volume, frequency and progression. Yep, choice of exercises is trained for what you want to improve. Is that right?

Not necessarily. So in this particular case, if you have a specific yes, of course do IT um exercise choice. A couple of things you want to look for. You want to pick something that you feel extremely confident in the movement with because you're going to forget your brain very quickly here, because you're going to go to our pain cave. So if you're not comfortable running, don't go run here.

You're never gna get this spot you need to get to with if you're not comfortable if every time you you go on a roll, you low back cards the next day, don't do IT if you're not comfortable using cattle ables me is that you get the point, don't do an exercise. You're not comfort you also. Second, arly want to be careful the cautious of heavy incentive c loads, because you're going to be doing a lot of repetitions at a high intensity.

So this is why I love in assault bike, is why a rower is great. Swiming is amazing. Running up hill generally more favorable than running on a Normal round, especially we not runner, don't run.

That's a lot of a centric going. I don't love things like box jumps here, right? Because again, a lot of events c losing.

If suppose you can jump up one of the box, step down, but now you, you're again, you're two. Many things are going to your mind. I don't want to slip and fall and want to smash my show the box.

What happens if I, too many variables, pick something that is, is safer, where you can really focus on your breathing in your posture and the performance, right? So that's exercise choice. And then with in that, if there are some specific thing you want to get Better at, go head, do IT.

Okay, how many different movements, meaning should I do the assault bike? And then um some form of safe executable overheads pressing. It's it's a little harder to imagine um in our capacity for the upper body unless you have access to a school or one of these.

What are those things called the climate machines? Yeah the verse car diversa climate. That's the one diverse climate. You can tell how often I do .

that one a great so great piece of .

ah so how many how many how many exercises in in what water is IT going to be two or three exercises inciter involving a lot of muscle groups typically.

But that's a really distinction. Generally these are going to be total body moments. So you can do something like a ski if you want to really ice like your upper body.

Great love that you can do lower body isolation like cycling vice and involve. You can use weight here um you can do some barbel movements and and stuff like that. There is not my favorite choices for most people to me, complexity things going on. So um I just going to pick total body movements, uh, pushing a slade, dragging us, leds spring up hill swimming, these things like that are gonna good.

I'm seen now why the assault bike is such a powerful tool because you're using your arms with some degree of resistance, but not a lot of eventually load, plus legs, some resistance, not a lot of a central glow, and yet one can go critical all out for thirty or sixty seconds yep.

And in the consequence is of a technical breakdown are minimal, is more like you're going to actually have a worse performance rather than an injury rate. So there's just a wonderful invention um because of that where other things the consequences, like say, if you're going be doing a bar belt or catalan activity, the consequences of making a tackle mistake, you might actually get an acute injury right there. So they're just a little bit .

higher in the risk scale. How many sets or sometimes refer to as repeat, if so, how many thirty to sixty? Second, all out springs again doesn't have to be running, sprinting. But all out effort would be the Better way to praise IT. Should I perform, let's say, per week, and then decide whether not we can divide these up across multiple workouts or where there is Better to do them in the same workout.

If you're staying with the same exercise for all of your workouts is a little bit different answer than if you if you're modifying them. So say you are going to do this three times a week and you do an area bike one day, you can do some hills sprints another day, and you can do some swimming another day.

For sake of example, i'm going to say same movement because I think most people are going to be most comfortable with one or two types of movements unless they are really coordinated or an excEllent athlete. I think most people can probably find a hill that they could run up and an area or a sault bike, a rower.

things that sort. Yes, you're gonna have a pro and a con here. So the pro of doing less set, if you can actually train much closer to truly one hundred percent, the downside is volumes low, kay. So a major mistake people make here is y'll do something like um i'll do twenty seconds on, ten seconds on, i'll do that for forty rounds. You're not really actually going that hard twenty second.

So a key, in fact, if you look at the literature and all the bus and all the positive benefits of high intensive training, that assumes you are actually hitting very close to one hundred percent if you're sliding down in the light. Again, moderate training. So you start to actually be a spot where you're not getting the total high end stuff, but you're not doing IT long enough to get the loan stuff either.

And so you end up in this like you burn some calories. You probably still enhances mental control. Genesis a little about a captivation, but you didn't really justify only doing three rounds.

That's where the problem comes in. So in terms of a couple of protocols, i'll give you a how many sets per week. It's it's really hard to give a number unlike the strengthened stuff where IT was easy to kind of myself on. Um a typical thing you'll see is like a minimum both tends to be something like four rounds per day, three times per week.

Well, that's a lot. So my once a week all out effort of sprinting on the assault bike, the so called airbed bike, for sixty seconds, one to three rounds of that might be doing something useful for me. But I should probably be doing that two or three times a week if you're .

onna get to a max heart, right? I'd generally like to say, give me a minimum of one day a week, tooth Better .

days per week. How many round?

Whatever IT takes you to get to that maxim? Hard, rich, right? In your case, you did one minute. Okay, good. If you're gna extend past a minute or two, one round might be enough.

So for example, uh, if you want to discuss something where i'm gonna run a mile as fast as I can, that's all you need to do for the day. You don't need to do multiple, even new, mild repeats, if you like. But that is really, really chAllenging.

I know we've extended the time duration here, but I wanted to go there to show you the time. You may matter you if you're doing something like a twenty second burst, you're going to need more rounds. If you're doing something longer, like multiple minutes, you don't need as many rounds to get there.

So um in addition, if you're really reaching past this um ninety seconds of health window, it's just going to do a lot more damage to the system, not damage in in bad, but is in like a lot to recover here. So we need more recovery time from that. A twenty second burst doesn't really change chAllenges in that twenty second ship, but you will be recovered and fine.

A three minute thing is gonna urt and it's going to hurt for many, many, many minutes after that. And you're going to still see maybe some performance documents the next day depending on what your recovery stuff looks like. So um a couple of things to pay play what to be something like this if you want to try like a classic thirty seconds on thirty seconds of protocol, the literature will show like a minimum of four rounds of that.

probably three days a week. So thirty seconds all out, thirty seconds arrested, one round, repeat that four times at least once a week.

at least two would be Better, right right? If you want to go something a longer that you might be able to get away with one. Um but generally two days week of this is Better.

If you start actually pushing past like three to four days a week, up to five or six, you may actually be causing some problems. There's just a little bit of excess fatigue that's onna happen there that you you might be once stay away from. In fact, you can see a lot of understand logical problems and some other sleep issues and some other things kick in um and will talk about more of those things is later.

But that's the number to get with. If you want to try something more like a twenty second first, I actually would recommend giving yourself more rest so you you can actually do a higher Price than work ratio. Most people tend to think of this is zoo like one to one, twenty seconds on, twenty seconds off or lower.

I love doing like twenty seconds on. Forty seconds of the quality of that. Twenty seconds becomes extraordinar arly high. And it's also possible to now get like six to eight rounds.

So i'm hearing this. I'm going to waggery um an offer to you and if you say OK um then to to those listening bason what you're telling me about the relationship between intensity and quality and the need for sufficient duration of this anoroc c work. How is five to six minutes per week of all outward? That's pretty good. So what that means for me as I would do three all about one minute springs on one workout separated by a minute or two, maybe more. And I would do that two or three times per week, just trying to hit that five or six minute per week threshold.

Actually I think one of the um mari gabala is the scientist um canadian uh guy amazing work. He's done a lot of the the research on high intensity and able stuff, right.

And I think the number he actually throughout there is some of his original research was comparing six total minutes of work upwards of like a hundred and eighty minutes of work throughout um the the entire week and and more of the classic cities was looking at vial to max improvements and he saw equal, if not creative improvements in view to max with that. So I think actually the name of this book might be like this six minute workout or something. And so you'd like may have nail that directly on .

the head purely by lock, but actually also .

maybe wrong in the number of which .

should probably t that will and also buy inference from what you are saying. You know, if you're going to do this twenty seconds on, forty seconds of you're doing more rounds or one minute all out is the way i'm going to think about this if it's okay with you is for five to six minutes a week, I am sprinting you for my life, correct? But i'm sprinting for my life with good form in whatever movement I happened to be doing. And I can do all of that in one work out, but i'm separating out bouts of twenty seconds all the way up to one minute by the necessary rest in order. Recover my breathing, get back to your nasal breathing, maybe someone, one's zone totally.

and then hit again. If you can do the one many thing like you do, I actually generally encourage one to three minutes of rest before you do the next round, and probably up to four to six rounds, that would be your six minute number. Now the baby out there is we don't worry about heart rate recovery. We worry about exactly what you mentioned, which is naseer only recovery once. If you can get back to that, give yourself another thirty seconds or so, then you're ready to go around .

to this where he gets fun. Because I can imagine chAllenging myself to get on the assault bike for one minute of kind of warm, a very low intensity each morning, and then sprint for a minute and then head off into my daily routine. No, okay.

that if you're going to do that though, you need to give me three minutes of nice only reading before you go back to work.

We needed that way to do that. And there are people in my life that would love for me to engage in more nzo breathing because you have me speaking less. So, no problem. Chances are i'm going to use the two or three workouts per week of one minute all out. Maybe try the shorter protocol.

Can I give you one fun protocol to try here, please? So if you have a, you can use this on any equipment. Um but I learned this from another mutual friend, kandy game.

This is a great little is a little test, little, a little game you can play with yourself. And there are only way to play this game is you're going to lose, which is really, really lovely. So you can do this in any dry, you can do this for any duration of time.

But two minutes is a good number, kay. So you have to do this and someone where you can no distance. So this could be running and cycling.

The the airbus is what I is. The first two minutes, you're going to cover as much distance as you can possibly cover in two minutes, and you're going to note that. So let's say you covered four hundred meters, right? Okay, great. You're going to rest for two minutes. Amazing that next round you're now going to go for distance.

So you're going to cover the exact I want a distance you covered in around one, which in this example was four hundred meters and IT doesn't matter how long IT takes you IT may take you two minutes and five seconds, two minutes and ten seconds because you're a little bit fatigue from around one round three. You're going to go now come back and do that exact same time. Main that you did round two.

So if I took you two minutes and five seconds and around two, now round three is going the last two minutes and five seconds, and you want to see if you can cover a greater distance, four hundred and five meters, four hundred and ten meters, then you did around one. And the beauty of this little protocol, six minutes total of work, right? But if you slack in one of the rounds, you just make the next round harder.

Is any rest between rounds?

Yeah, two minutes.

always two minutes rest.

You don't have to, but this would .

be my recommendation.

I don't know if he came up that he told .

me we both know Kenny and he is an incredibly nice, an incredibly skilled trainer. I'm going to call the sugar cane. Yeah, is so great because sounds really .

pain and you too hard around, you're in such big trouble round two. But if you go to easy around one, you're going to get absolutely obliterated in around three. So it's it's like a wonderful thing and you can pick that number as a scandalization and then just try to improve that a little bit per week.

So progression is the last part of this whole thing that we haven't got to yet before we move on. Um and in the way you want to progress all of these things is you can time stamp again how much work you can do and then is try to do a slightly higher amount, work five percent or so every week or you can add around which is a really nice way. So um uh in the in the research um studies that have been done, they're going to do things like week one you'll do three rounds. Week two you'll do four rounds, three you go five rounds you like at around and tell you get up to say six or seven or eight rounds at the end of the protocol. So that's a really nice way to go about IT or you can cap the rounds and just try to get more work done in that same amount of time.

meaning go more .

intensely correct, get further distance in your thirty seconds or your forty five seconds or whatever. Um I want to encourage people to go as low as twenty seconds. That's gonna you to go very, very, very fast. That's gonna really chAllenge that force for creating piece a little bit. I want to encourage people also goes high as ninety seconds.

So the honest way, the way that I will do IT not that it's about me, but just as an example of something you could do, I do something in the fifteen, the twenty second burst range, and I will generally heads towards a two to one rest to work ratio. So i'm probably going to arrest forty to sixty seconds that's that's to make sure that twenty second birth is extremely high quality cool. I'm also going to do something in the thirty to fifty second range cap.

I might go one to one work first ratio. The quality of those thirty seconds is onna come down. But the asset buffering is going to be extraordinary ly chAllenged. I'll also will do that with a triple or quad group rest range. So again, thirty seconds on maybe two minutes of now I won't be able to be I won't be working on my ability to handle um the waste product build up there, but i'll be working on my ability to produce more force over that time, which is another school set. And then all of you up to say what you do a minute seventy seconds and you can go one to one there or up to three to one.

Um you're going to be working a little bit with different thing, but that's exactly how we hit both sides of the equation, working on dealing with waste as well as actually working on bringing in nutrient in getting this system a little bit more factor. So um you can set that up across your week and just IT could be something like day one, is that twenty second first window? Day two is that maybe sixty second window in a day three is maybe one all out effort. And we're done there.

Let's talk about the specific protocols and adaptations related to maximum arab c output or maximum merit capacity. Is that sometimes called?

sure. Now we're moving past like that couple of minute range in the know five to fifteen in a range but at a maximum. So what's the highs you can go from there? We're not talking about our last category of long duration here.

Well, the beautiful part is explain a lot of IT because it's very similar that we just talked about with ana capacity. Uh, IT is primarily going to be a problem. I'm dealing with waste products, especially at the end.

It's not enough total distance to be running out of muslim vacation. So IT may start to creep down a little bit. That's not to be an issue, but certainly more oxide transportation is going to be an issue.

So what is hedging a little bit more towards that side of the equation towards the end of that workout? No double about a clearing out waste products is going to be a huge issue. But really, ox yen demand delivery starting to take more of a prominent role because we have had more time to clear your waste.

And if we're not good at that, we're gonna fAiling earlier than we need. So the training for that needs to be a little bit at that. exactly.

So a classic name here is a one mile. This rate, this is going to last for most people somewhere between five and ten minutes, your sort of right in this window. Um if you just want to practice that once a week, we're done here, right? Exercise choice, same thing we talked about, right? Pick and exercise.

You're comfortable with that you can actually do and you can progressively increase in terms of the intensity you not going to be. You have to stop and change your exercise. You not to move around like a circuit isn't great here because you've ttl put one implement downside up another one.

You want to be doing something whether is little not a second of off switch. So similar exercise choice principles we just covered. If you going to become a real savage and you want to do repeat ths here you can um in dance folks will do that a lot.

One repeats and your repeats, things like that. I'm not sure of the swimming distance equivalent would be, but swim, we do counselling, but you don't need to. This is really hard.

It's pretty hard. And the system is very good for you. One twice a week of hitting this. I think you've in a really, really good spot. Um frequency we sort of discover we recovered exercise choice volume is a sort nail and intensity is basically running you up to the top there.

Now because you can only do that so often, you want to add in another forty or so percent of your time being, lower intensity support work for that. So this is something probably less than eighty five percent of your heart rate, but higher than coal, coal zone to. You're got to be working here.

This is not, I could have a conversation pace. This is higher than that. It's in between conversation pace and th Epace I n eed t o b e a t t o r un m y f ast s mile i 've e ver d one.

That's that middle road. And you need to train that so that you can continue to work on capitalization, auction, transportation. But you're not burning down the house, getting all way up to one hundred plus percent of your view to max.

Could I use a, uh, a crude version of this where I say, okay, i'm going to exercise for ten minutes. I'm going to go as fast as I safely can and every week i'm going to measure how far I travel. Yep, isn't at ten minutes .

love IT probably not on .

the same day that i'm doing the aneroid .

capacity work.

Probably if you probably okay to do after a strength training or hypocrisy workout as long as I in train legs.

you could um is probably going to compromise. Recovery is the way. So I would if you're going to do a session, I guess I would probably do IT on its own day unless you wanted to do something like speed or power, then you can roll right into this and have no problem.

Maybe strange the uh hyper tree day. I'm not sure um you do there because egg again, specially any sort of the body exercise, you're going to be compromise here. But remember these tend to be full body movements. So you if you do arms that day, your arms going to be compromised. You don't want to fail this because of local moscow .

failure right now. I've got my work cut out for me. I'm going to be doing five, six minutes per week of all out work divided into sixty, twenty and sixty second bouts with sufficient rest. And i'm going to give myself ten minutes a week of, in my case, you'll probably be running as fast as I can because I do enjoy running and I can do IT safely um maybe a pal and see how four ago yep.

if you want to combining you so if you say, hey, i'm bored and andy, like I wanted do both these things. They are similar, but they have independent benefits, i'm convinced. How would I build this into the same week?

Um maybe do one of each that still gives you at corner two days per week where you're gonna a hot maxim, hard rates. So we are to check that box up. So one day can be a shorter, like in a world, repeat one, and the other one can simply be a five to fifteen minute maximum work and you're .

done long duration in dance exercise, the stereotypical endurance exercise. How far, how long, how faster, how slow? Should rather should I go? And here i'm onna venture. That exercise choice is one that we could click off even at this point in the discussion because obviously, it's got to be something that I can do for a long while without getting injured over your injuries.

Um there's a little bit of nobody we can actually thrown here. So one of the things I love to do for long curation and insurance for people who don't love running, cycling or swimming, as you can do the really cool workout, any number of things where you can put a little circuit together as long this is not a lot of downtime between one circuit to the next time you can actually do is something as simple as like maybe you're gonna do, farmers Carries and you'll do that for, say, three minutes and you'll set those down.

You'll go straight into a plane for a minute and you'll pick that up and you go straight in to maybe body wake squats for two minutes, then you go straight into another exercise. You you can sort of road take things around um maybe you can do even some like shadow boxing stuff or some jump road. You can do different gymnastics movements and body weight movements and you can run that thing through and you can basically get the exact same thing accomplished and not feel like you're doing, oh my gosh, this mind numbing type of training.

If IT feels like that to you, another way can to do that to actually even simplify even more. We've done this at any kind gem. Plenty at times where you just may be even pick three machines.

So you're going to go i'm going to go ten minutes on the rover and i'm going to ten minutes on the trade mail and ten minutes on the bike. You can actually knock a thirty more coron court studies take session out in and not feel those problems if those things happens. So you can actually have a lot of fun there.

We will do a lot of times with our fighters will do things like put a very low load. I'm talking sub fifty percent of your max on a barbell and you're onna squat and you are going to do, you know, maybe a minute you're gonna put that down and then you going to go over and do fifty percent of a bench pressure put that down. You're going to go over and do fifty percent of a of a crab block, and you're going to go over and do another one.

And you can actually run this entire thing. You don't hit that many reps in any individual movement. The load is very, very light. And you can keep part rate based E A steady state into fifteen or twenty or thirty different exercises. And it's actually fairly fun and engaging to do. And it's a little bit more specific than trying to give at two hundred and seventy five pound N F L player to run for thirty minutes, which is not going be good. So i'm just .

truckling because I love to run outdoors and i've enjoyed runs on my travels and I find IT to be a great way to see different places. And I like moving through space, but there are weather conditions and times when that's not an option. So what you described as a terrific alternative, I have to assume that the specific adaptation that's occurring here is related to the fat burning system. And again, that doesn't necessarily mean fat loss overall, but fat burning system. And yet I do have a question, which is, can you build enhanced microcap ary systems into the muscles by doing this long duration cardio?

Yeah absolutely can. In fact, depending on which paper you uh like more than the other papers um you may even find evidence that this is a superior method than anything else. A steady state in durn is very important.

I used to not like IT as much. There's just so much evidence now that suggests it's probably a really good thing for basic. Everybody maybe for some individuals is not in all year of their training.

But if if you're not a high level later to have a very specific goal that right in from you, it's probably best to do at least twenty minutes as a minimum, maybe thirty minutes of some steady state exercise once a week for basically any training goal outside of, again, a couple of really specific scenario that are happening. The other thing that kind of kicks in here that we haven't really talked about is now we're actually reaching a position where fatigue of the inner costal search to play. So diaphanous c fatigue starts to run in the occasion.

So we forget, generally, breathing IT is a contraction to open up the lungs to change pressures, so the air will flow in. And then the excEllence is passive, right? Is a muscles been stretches back arresting.

When you go to a maximum heart rate, inhalational and acceleration become active, so you're squeeze his heart. You can open up in your squeeze in the contract, the blow air out. You're going to get fatigue system right over time.

You have contracted, contracted, open up. If that system starts to get fatigue, you start running into failure here. So you need to practice that.

And this is when all kinds of things like drill to just simply training in this fashion um there's all kinds of exercise devices for your longing. And when we say that that's we're really talking about the moscow atr around the longs. Needs to not fatigue.

So that's the only other little compound I wanted to throw in here. If we're not talking about acid buffering, which in this particular case is not a problem anymore, the time domain is long and slow earth, so we have plenty of time to use pats of fuel. We also have plenty of time to use and robot anoroc c like causes and clear out waste products.

So we don't really cph being a problem with this type of exercise. You may start running low on livered like agent, if you're going a very long time, muscle blackin may start getting low, but not really these refuge issues you're gonna run in and maybe a little bit stroke while in issue, but and intensity is not high enough to become a problem. You're more likely to break down posture or breathing mechanics than really anything else unless again, that duration really gets generally past two hours for most people. So those are the things are going to limit us.

So how do we improve IT? What do we drain? We went through the exercise choices.

You also need to make sure you're training you're inner castles. We need to be training our diagram in some fashion. Again, I can be the exercise itself can be your Normal training.

The thing you need to be careful of here. And this is actually true for all the things we just talked about. When we think about fatigue and we think about failure and addon, we really need to pay attention to technical breakdown.

That is always the marker we look for soon. We when we go through our stuff with our athletes and they couldn't code fail or they finish, that's generally because we saw a massive technical breakdown. You're done like you're over there.

Not always the case during all year round the train, but this is something that really pay attention to. So if you're on that bike in your forty second scene and all post your source punching over, I may stop the test. I may stop the training. I K no, what we decided failure was as when you lost your technique some sufficient level. Um so you want to pay attention that too, because that's going to determine your ability to perform well as well as maintain efficiency, which is a really big problem here.

Tell me if the protocol about to describe would be a reasonable one for people to incorporate. Sixty to one hundred and twenty minutes of long duration work per week. So one way to complishment that I often use is to head out for a weight vested hike.

It's not a heavy weight vest. Maybe I think it's eight or ten pounds of these dinner ones. And if people don't have access to that backpack with some items in IT, I mean.

that can be a simple and you can be your body.

Okay, great. And do some hiking at up at a fast enough clip that breathing harder than I would be if I just kind of a huffle along and I might stop here they're drink some water, no big deal, but I can Carry on a conversation if I need to so it's zone to ish, but probably pushing a little bit harder than that for that duration. Yeah not a lot of deep souness occurring after this. Maybe a little bit of aqueous and some stabilization muscles that were used that there may not be used much, much. I've been sitting a lot in the week kind of reminds me how much I ve been sitting here. But doing that all in one long afternoon, typically on the weekend, or doing two shorter sessions throughout the week made forty five months and forty five minutes and then working up the progression to longer, longer direction seems like that would be something that most people um should be able to do you and that IT would weave in well with any resistance training or the energy bic and a robic output capacity work that we talk about this time ago.

That's a fine version to do IT if you want to go short and bring up the intensity a little bit so you want to keep IT more to the thirty to sixty minute range and go you know closer into the I can have a conversation right now, but i'm not at a blistering art rate. Then you could probably get that same thing done in a smaller time window if that was a consideration.

So if you wanted to blend all three of these together, you have a lot of wig room, right? So you could do something like order. If we're talking about this type of training, you could do this first and then finish with either one of the higher intensity stuff we talked about.

So IT could be roped him in the same thing. I could be its own independent day, could be your sort of active recovery day tends to be fairly restoration or as you eluted to a little bit there. So it's not that big a deal to do this on your corn quote off day.

If you're those if you're that type of person who like even on your after you have to do something physical, this is fine, right? Um if you wanted to do IT on a lifting day, specially if it's a power strength, it's probably fine if you wanted to do IT before the workout or after IT, either way, you're probably okay. Probably best do IT after if the primary goal is one of the strengthening adaptations, if it's not, if this is a primary goal, do the first.

Amazing, if you wanted to do IT in the combination with the other end of stuff, you could do IT final, you could do IT before, or you could do IT afterwards. I actually have no problem doing. And afterwards, because that in effect, especially if you say naseer, only during this training will help the down regulation go.

And so you could finish that fairly well, down regulator actually. So it's kind of like a nice way to get third ly warmed up, go really, really hard and then give you a nice twenty thousand or thirty minute slow back down. And by the time you finish, maybe even on a three minute walk.

Nice little with .

four second in hell, four second in hell, maybe five, eight. Play with the numbers a little. Then maybe you don't even need to do that down regulation bringing up, you're bring a good spot.

You wouldn't want to do this before. Do your intervals, finish your intervals, throw up lying on the ground, sweat all over the gym floor, get up and go back to work. That's probably on .

our best strategy. These people are hearing this all. They may be thinking, well, this is a lot of work to do, but i've been keeping track of the math here and here, some here, other are as well. And we're really talking about ten minutes of the of running or sprinting on the bike, a rower once a week. We're talking about six minutes or so of the much higher intensity.

But short bouts divided the rounds of twenty to forty seconds to a minute, with with rest between, and then some longer duration work out of thirty minutes minimum, but maybe as much as an hour, even two hours, which in total doesn't really equate to that much time, especially if one can access these things right out the front door or at home. And as we point out, you don't need any specialized equipment to do that. Oh and I forgot the um muscular endurance that wasn't trying to cheat.

There is some muscular endurance thrown in as well. So that brings me to a question, which is if i'm doing my training for muscular endurance cy each week for anoroc c capacity and for maximum morabec output and long duration. And given that all of that can take roughly two hours for the typical person total for the entire week, which I would argue is going to give you back so much life literally in terms of lung v, you're literally .

going to earn back years .

of your life productivity and offsetting all sorts of metals, lic issues and enhancing your sleep, improving mood over there is so much data, so much data at pointing to all those positive benefits. If I do all of these things, and i'm fairly consistent about them, am I going to be manioc ally flexible? Am I going to have a well developed fat burning, carbon hydrate burning system? And and will I be essentially fit?

I mean, this is not leaving aside issues of strength and hypertext y, which were covered in in the previous episode, will I be fit? I mean, to my mind, the ability to, you know, sprint very fast if one needs to. The ability go a longer duration, if one needs to, and the ability do something in between, as well as hold the box overhead if necessary.

Well, installing a shelf or something like that. These are the realities of life, and to me, represent real functional world fitness. If that's the case, is there anything that we would want to add to this programme? Or would you consider that a fairly comprehensive and complete endurance training .

system if we remember the target, which is I want to to have energy, I want to look a certain way, and you are able to do that for the duration of your life, for a very long life. This style of training, where you incorporate all of those areas of insurance, gives you all of the necessary adapt tails when we need text. cute.

All of those things. Remember, fat loss or weight management is not best done with any individual style protocol. So if you do a little bit of three days you've checked that fat loss box, you don't need to go and do anything separate for IT.

You've done all the things then to cover aesthetics from that side of the equation, right? You've done the things to both enhance minor country, to enhances blood flow increased and manage fatigue and waste development. Bomb energies there, fatigues there, are not gonna tired or have to quit or stop or sit down doing any these activities I want. At the same time, if you look at the literature on mortality, one of the strongest predictors of how long you're going to live is your view to max. So we've set up a scenario which you're going to hit all three of those primary goals by doing a combination of this training, you're not going to miss any plausible adaptation from a dance training, and you should be set for regardless of your goal.

incredible. And as I understand, totally compatible with strengthen hypertrophy training, provided that your goal is to also be strong and also selectively hyperdrive phy or generally hyperdrive phy your muscles or maintain your muscles. For many people that are listening to this, i'm guessing that they have an interest in building more endurance, but not just the ability go further, but the ability to go a given distance at a higher speed and to do IT with Better form into breathe Better and to feel Better before, during and after.

For those folks, maybe you could spell out of program that combines these different elements of endurance and does so in a way that informs how, for instance, the higher intensity, short duration springs would be expected to improve their longer donation work and how perhaps their longer derated work um can progress if they are careful to include uh, some planks in some wall sits and and things of that sort. I asked this question specifically because I have to believe that while they're probably are some folks out there, they're looking to maximized their plank from week to week to week. Typically, IT seems that people fall into these categories of either one who get stronger and get bigger muscles to varying degrees or to get Better at endurance or to get Better everything overall. Right now, i'd really like to just focus on what you think is a nice control of a program for the person that wants to get Better at endurance, but do IT with more speed, more stability, and just feel like a strong endurance runner, cycle swimmer or whatever happened to be there event.

Okay, great. So let's just given example. Maybe you want to run your first half marathon, something like that. okay. Um maybe done a couple times before you want to get Better at that time. Ah I would probably put somewhere in able to sixty seventy percent of your you know mallet's in the moderate intensity zone OK. So you need to accumulate mileage and you need to be able to handle what we call the tissue tolerance.

So in this case, your feet need to be able to handle thirteen miles of pounding no IT doesn't matter how much high hard rate training you do or your fat delivery ability, none of that matters if your feet are blown up by mile aid. okay. So in addition, we talked about how even training in that seventy to eighty five percent heart rate zone is quite effective at auction delivery, fat utilization capitalization as such a so you're going to get a lot of direct enterance benefits from that work.

You're also going to be working on what's honestly going to be one of your limiting factors, which is that tissue tolerance in that pounding came. In addition, you need to be efficient with your technique and you need a lot of repetitions for motor scale development. So you want to spend most your time there, it's easy to recover from, is not extremely um demanding and chAllenging.

awesome. That leaves you with another thirty or forty percent of training. I would spend ten percent of that in that like twenty second burst area. You're gonna drive up fatigue extremely high and you going to really maximized ability recover from um waste production. All right, great.

I would spend the remaining amount time either on a little bit of actually maximum speed stuff that could actually be in the twenty second birth if you're really trying to go as passage you can at the beginning of that exercise. And then the rest of that I would spent in that other zone, which is more of like the five to fifteen minutes, but you're probably going to want to repeat those. And this is when things like eight hundred meter run rest for double the time and then repeat that two or three times.

You actually need that in the scenario because you're gonna to be able to be running for two. Most people going to have more than maybe around two hours or so, something like that. And see you want a little bit of what we call repeated endurance, right? So be able to handle that higher high rate, come back down, do IT again at the same time. That's actually how you bumper million job. So instead of having this do more of these long duration distance runs, you can still get maybe five or six miles done a day if you're going to do a one mile repeat or whatever number you're looking at.

So for a lot of people, that kind of how I would structure IT um that's on esty is very similar to what we laid out in the previous conversation, which is getting this idea that more than fifty percent should be basically practice a little bit of work at the very top of this spectrum, but not too much, and then a little bit work at the other end and you should be a good spot. A major mistake one would make here is only doing the long duration study states stuff and just sort of saying i'm going to run a five miles, this was week, and then do six miles next week and seven and set and might work for you. I think we have enough evidence at this point, both in the scientific round as well as most of the coaches, I think in this space would agree with me is that's a sob of the most. So IT could work, but we can do Better.

And in terms of the structure of a program like this, I realized that those structures vary tremendous. Different coaches and different, yes, and different programs are going to say, oh, you should run money through friday with weekends off for every other day. But in terms of the seventy percent um thirty percent divide, where seventy percent is going toward the specific event you are doing the kind of work that you're going to do during the specific event that you're most interested in cultivating or improving, and the remaining thirty percent coming from other sorts of a of supporting work, how should one thing about distributing the other thirty percent should IT be all gear towards maximum recovery for the seventy percent or in other words, um could I do all that thirty percent work on one day?

I probably was put in the few days. Um that's relevant. So if you're thinking, man, coach wants me to train six days week, my schedule is tight. I can pull off four to five. Okay, great. What I might say is two of those days are just your your tempo, right? This would like a running able call us like temple training kind of in that space.

Remind us with tempo tourney is just for that.

The d in four eighty percent effort range, we are like running at probably the same stride length then and rate that you're going to run your race. That may be a little bit lower, but something similar. You're practicing skill, you're crowing biology and you're getting a little. You're getting work and for sure work, but is not absolutely fast as you can sprint. It's also not conversation.

So this should be the um what before we referred to as the ten minutes of fast running .

or ten s this is lower intensity, got IT, this is work accumulation, got IT this is practice of um then one of the days week I would probably enter in that twenty second, twenty second burst for a little bit speed there and then one of the other days is when I would do that true high intended as hard as I for hitting a view two max, something like that. So that's probably how would I break up if I had like four days a week? If you had five, you can maybe add in another day we do more of that volume accumulation pra work, but that's that's a pretty display.

Well, this is the point in the epo de where I say, thank you ever so much. You provided an enormous amount of incredibly interesting, clear information that's also actionable. I do feel as if I far Better understand endurance in its many forms, and even the cellars underpinnings of that, and even sub seller underpinnings of what in dance adaptations are, and how to Foster those through specific protocol, things that not only I can do tomorrow, but that I will do tomorrow, and where I hit my pain points.

I'll understand what's happening and the adaptation that i'm trigger ing when my legs are burning or i'm sucking for air through my mouth or I can calmly move along just through nasal breathing, I will now know what's happening in my body and the specific adaptations that i'm trigger ing. I think you also highlights something that is widely important, and i've never heard IT phrased as clearly as you did today, which is that IT really doesn't matter how one seeks out to achieve that loss. Provided certain criteria or met even while certain forms of exercise tap into fat stores more than others. And you beautifully illustrated the relationship between energy realization and breathing and the fact that we literally x hail fat to to some extent course.

So once again.

thank you. Thank you and thank you. I know i'm not alone in um recognizing this information as incredibly interesting and action. And indeed I do plan to put IT action as I hope, many of our listeners well as well.

Yet again, the pleasures is actually on our mind. And I actually really recited the fact that you let me go so far in the metabolite. My P, H, D is in human biogeography time. I can go hours in the metabolite, get very excited and I don't typically get that leash um in this format. So I appreciate that I know you understand your audience will love that.

Hopefully they'll love IT and I think that they will especially love IT because they understand that if one can wrap their head around even just a small fraction of the mechanisms that underlie given protocol, IT gives both tremendous debt and meaning to that protocol and makes you so much more flexible for people. They can really think about what's happening as they're engaging in a given protocol and know exactly what they can expect in terms of results. great.

We've been on a bit of a journey here. We've covered a lot ground with speed, development and strength. And I portrait y, and now we walk through probably several hours here of of endurance.

What I would love to do next is to just give you a more straightforward, not as much background, not as much meta lisp, none of the mechanisms right into protocols, for someone who says, look, I want to hit those Marks you keep talking about. I want to look good. I want to feel good, and I want to do that across my life.

And how would I build all these things into a protocol that actually covers maybe the entire year? And how would I would be able to repeat that year after year? So I almost have this ever Green, sustainable, year long, partizan structure that covers all the notes I need to, if I want, everything we've talked about in these nine adaptations in this short series. So I would love to do that. Our next conversation.

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Thank you once again for joining me for today's discussion about fitness exercises and performance with dr. Andy galpin. And as always, thank you for your interesting science.