Home Alone For The Holidays
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I Do Part Two is an innovative podcast all about finding love the second time around. But sometimes on the road to finding love the second time around, you end up staying in Singlestown, maybe longer than you anticipated. I'm one of your celebrity mentors, Sheryl Burke, and I'm joined today by fellow mentor, Kelly Ben-Simon. And today, we also have former star of The Bachelorette, Diana Stagliano. Welcome, ladies, to the podcast. How are you doing? Hello.

Good. What's new? Just preparing for the big day. What big day? The big day of being thankful and grateful. Which one? There's a big day of gratitude because it's Thanksgiving. Happy Thanksgiving. Yesterday was my birthday and just a week. You know what I mean? It's just been...

I think like all of the things like I'm just reeling in like the kids and being divorced and wanting to have companionship, but not because I don't, you know, so I think I've just like really like rode the waves of all the things this week.

How long have you been single? My divorce was final this year, but I have been single for probably three years. Got it. Same. I'm in the same boat, except I'm definitely not looking for companionship and I'm loving it so much. Carol, I'm not either. I'm not either. I think it's deeply overrated, deeply overrated. I believe that we are built for companionship and I really want that, I think, in the long run. But like today, no.

Nah, nah. See, I'm ready for, I'm ready to meet someone. I want to, I've been going to therapy. I've been, you know, going through this whole process on the podcast. Cheryl and I have had some really great moments together with TJ and Amy and Jenna. And I've just learned so much about myself and,

And I'm not saying that I'm ready to get married tomorrow, but the way that I'm dealing with my life

both personally and professionally is different. Do you actually think that you'll get married again? Because I have a hard pass for me. I don't ever want to get married again. Deanna people want, they know you obviously from the bachelor bachelorette franchise. What I guess tell our listeners a little bit about your love story and your journey, I guess. Well, I went on the show. I did the bachelor and yeah,

I was the final one. I was everyone's pick at the end. I was the one that was going to choose. Of course you were. And then I went on to be the Bachelorette. And I chose someone. Not so great, but I did. And then I met my ex-husband through the show because his twin brother was on a different season of mine.

So I met my ex-husband through the show and we were married for 12 years and together for what, 15? Mm-hmm. So I'm very careful at this point. Mm-hmm.

Because Addison in particular is very aware. And her friends know who she is. They know who she is at school. They know me. And so I try to be really careful what I share. I hear you. How I share it.

All good. I mean, I can understand that too, because when I was on, I was on the Real Housewives of New York when, when my kids were five and seven. So I was on 2009, 10 and 11.

And some of my kids were, my kids were really young as well. And, you know, I didn't feel like, first of all, I didn't feel like it was a safe place for me to talk about anything. And second of all, you know, I was, when I was single, being single in 2009 was not sexy.

Being, you know, it was like, oh my God, I cannot believe you're not married. Like what's wrong with you? The choice of like, you're saying like this empowered choice of saying, I don't really know if I ever want to meet someone or, you know, that kind of narrative just didn't exist.

And so I commend you for being such a good mom and for protecting your daughter and your children because it's not easy in this important environment. I literally have had a week and I don't want to cry. Oh no, you should cry. It's good for you. It's good for everyone. I know. I've cried all week. We went to dinner last night for my birthday and I was saying to my girlfriend, so that was just like...

that I just feel like I am going to great lengths to protect my children. You know, I don't think I always realized this when I was younger, but I'm a product of divorce and the great lengths that my mother went through to protect me and my brother and my sister. But I find that I'm doing the same things for my children.

And man, is it freaking exhausting. It's exhausting. I also come from a... I'm a product of a divorced family as well. And I don't know if this is the reason why I don't have kids or I don't... I have no interest in it. But like, it's just...

Yeah, but what you're doing and by being aware of what you say, because we know kids are very observant and smarter than we think. And I remember seeing my parents fight before they divorced and everything.

It's just not like, and then also talking about each other. It's just not healthy. It's not healthy. I mean, I raised my two kids on my own. So I was a full-time single parent. It was no co-parenting. And, you know, what you're going through right now is, you know, natural too. I mean, those feelings are real and, you know, there's a lot of stress and pressure and,

And, you know, it's our job to raise amazing kids, the next generation. And it's like, you know, I don't come from a divorce. Both of my parents were together for our entire life and I never thought I would get divorced. But I got divorced because I wanted something better for my children. I wanted, I thought it was better for me to parent my children, just myself, than to be in an environment that wasn't good for them.

And, you know, it's not easy. And I mean, you know, I'm not trying to say don't be hard on yourself, but, you know, it's okay to feel that pressure because it's heavy. It's heavy. It's heavy.

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Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford, and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty.

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Cheryl, I know you don't have kids, but like I just sat in this space this week where I just felt like deeply sorry for myself. You know, as we're talking about like dating, going into the holiday stuff, you know, and I feel like deeply alone by choice. By choice. But not lonely, right? No.

I feel lonely, mostly because I believe that we are built for companionship and partnership. So they say. Yeah, so they say. So they say. I also just like really love my life and I make a lot of money. No, I hear you. But holidays bring, like trigger something, obviously. I can do all the things that I, this week in particular, and I don't know if it's just because it's been my birthday and... Pluto just moved into Aquarius, just saying.

Yeah. After 19 years. Yes. Yeah. And I feel like, like lonely, you know, and I know that I, I'm not so deeply lonely that I would choose anyone because I have options. They, I, they aren't like great and I'm okay with that. And I, I feel, um, I guess really empowered in a place that, um,

I can say no. You know what I mean? It's the complete sentence. Yeah. Do you have your kids with you, Deanna, for this holiday? This is my first Thanksgiving alone with my kids. And my dad is going to come out with his wife. And I'm really grateful. Yeah, I'm really, really grateful. It's just been a really difficult few years. And I have really wonderful friends. And I have...

I have a really great family and surroundings, you know, for people who will just come in and be with us when we need it. So my dad is coming in this week and he's,

I have the kids. And so I'm just trying to create really wonderful memories for them. Make them happy and make them feel loved and make them want to be here. Yeah. Thank you for your vulnerability. Because like, first of all, there's so many I can relate in many ways, though. I don't have kids. I mean, I can't say I never get lonely. Like it's literally I moved out of L.A. to where I am.

with my Frenchie and it's just me and my Frenchie. And I don't have tons of friends in this, where I live in this town. And I also haven't really made much of an effort. Like there has been a part of me that has ghosted, not just my ex-husband, but like also my friend, like everything around me, I just feel is, you know, we evolve and evolving until the day we die. And sometimes there is this feeling of loneliness, but I think in some,

I don't know. I like to not say it as lonely, more like alone because of the transition that, you know, people change and it's not bad nor good. It's not bad or good. Like there's no label other than the fact that I just want to give back to myself because I don't remember the last, I don't think I've ever done this before where I've chosen me, you know?

Who's first? Who is first? Right. And I didn't know who was first until I actually had quiet time around me because it's so easy to put everyone else in front of you.

But they always say that, you know, you're supposed to put your safety belt on first. And that's the other thing that has been really like a big lesson for me because I have always been the kind of person, like whatever my kids want, whatever they want, whatever they need, like what can I do? And when you put your safety belt on first and you protect yourself, then you are even a better protector of your children, obviously what you're already doing. But it's just, you know, when you're going through...

the birthday and kind of processing everything, it gets to be, you know, it gets to be a lot. And, you know, the nice thing is that you have this, your friend group, which is amazing. Like I literally, I literally was so like mortified of like what I had done. Like I thought that I had like done this horrible thing by getting divorced and this like awful, you know, thing that I shouldn't have done. I used to cry in my closet and I,

I just sit there on the floor because I don't want anybody to know. And Cheryl, maybe you feel the same. I felt so much grief and so much. I was really embarrassed. So was I. Yeah. I mean, I haven't dated or, and I've been like celibate for three years since my divorce. And I think that all has to do with shame underneath all of it. Same for me. Same for me. I mean, I,

I think that there is this space that you just feel this deep, immense amount of pain and grief and just shame surrounding divorce. You know, I swear we were going through a divorce for a year before I ever said anything out loud because I was so embarrassed. I was so embarrassed. Yeah.

And there is a cleansing piece of divorce and breakups. You know what I mean? Like you lose friends. And I lost really great friends and people that I really cared for. But there is a really beautiful grieving process when it comes to divorce and being single and alone and really sitting alone.

You know, because the easiest thing is to numb and find somebody else quickly and find another physical body, you know, especially during like the holidays. Yeah.

Exhibit A. Here you go. Men do that. Men do that. Let's dive into the holidays. Speaking of the holidays, what's everyone's thoughts on the holidays in general, I guess? Deanna, you go first. For me in particular, I'm just pouring into the kids. And I'm lucky I have them. They're mine. And I just, I think for me, I have really gone out of my way and

my healing and my therapy and everything else to make sure they're okay. I really worry about my children.

and what this will do to them and the damage it will cause are they in therapy do you put them in there yeah i have to say that's one thing my mother did with me and god thank her because it's just about putting a voice to the pain right like and if you can't and if you can't translate whatever you're feeling into a language that's when it eats you up okay i'm like

If they can just get to like 16 and I hope that they will look back and think my mom went to great lengths. And that's what I think about my mother. Like though the generation, even though when she needs to go to therapy, but she'll never because, but at least she knew what to do with me because I have to tell you the trauma I've dealt with my stepsister who dealt with a similar story. She,

just died of an overdose. And it's like, you literally can see, like, it was interesting. I mean, it's so sad. And this happened a little over a year ago, but like, that's the difference between being in therapy versus not. And it's like, yes, you need, you need an outlet. And trauma affects us all. And I have said this, uh,

across the board. When my ex-husband asked to leave me, I chose to go to trauma therapy. I went three days a week for three hours a day and it was literally the best decision that I ever, ever could have done for myself, you know, and with that, an example for my children. Absolutely. Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty.

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Designed especially for stability, they're low to the ground with a wide wheelbase and ultra-lightweight frames, offering superior control and balance. This design gives young riders the ability to learn in just one day, without tears or frustration. Guardian bikes are the only kids' bikes designed and assembled in a USA factory, ensuring top-notch quality and durability.

They were also featured on Shark Tank and are the New York Times Wirecutter Top Kids Bike Pick for 2024. Join the hundreds of thousands of happy families by getting a Guardian bike today. Their holiday sales have begun, offering the biggest deal of the year. Save up to 33% on bikes. No code needed. Plus, get free shipping and a free bike lock and pump with your first purchase after signing up for their newsletter. Visit GuardianBikes.com to take advantage of these deals and secure your holiday gifts today.

Happy riding.

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Well, let's talk about, since this is a holidays episode, we're going to talk about...

My first year, I guess, of the holidays without my ex-husband, I stayed busy because my new, I'm sober for six years, but my new drug of choice is now productivity. So I numbed through making sure everyone came to my house so that I had to decorate. I had to cook. I had to do, I had my to-do list was so freaking packed, jam-packed.

that I didn't even think about the sadness. Now, is that the solution? Hell no, it's not the solution. I'm just running away from my problems. But now I have no plans as far as I'm not cooking, I'm not cleaning, I'm going to meet my family at my sister's in-laws or her in-laws 2B's house. So that should be interesting, but at least it's driving distance so I can always get in the car and go if I need to. Yeah.

Does that feel good for you? What? To go and spend time with them? I don't know. I've never done it before. So it's a little bit scary for me to be quite honest. And like I said, it's in Newport and where I live, it's about a couple hours away, but I can always get in the car and come back home if I need to. It's going to be interesting. I, because it's just, yeah, you're right. Like I've never really, I don't even know who her in-laws are. I would say I personally struggle with, um,

That I, I love, love to my core, my ex-husband's family. Oh yeah. I do. I really love them. I love my father-in-law. There has been some trauma within the family. And so that makes it really hard. So I think, you know, the whole piece of switching holidays and doing all of the things that

It's there's also a piece of just like grief. Do you know, of course, the family, not, not just my ex-husband. There is grief in, in the family, like grieving my, my mother-in-law who I, I just like literally love, love at my core. And she is,

salt of the earth wonderful human being I love that that at least you still feel like that after do you have any connection with her still or no yeah I do Kelly I think that we're just figuring it out you know I think that it's hard for her because it's her son right um and I think at the end of the day I have a lot of grace for the fact that she can't separate the two

Do you know what I mean? It's her son. Has he moved on? Is he dating? Do you know your ex? He's had a girlfriend for...

okay uh kelly are you dating are you dating someone right now you were saying that you're still single i am still single i have chosen to like dive into myself and do it and he rushed into another relationship which is you know there's also that's the easiest route that's the easiest way to go by the way right it is kelly say more kelly come on girl

Cheryl's like, I love Cheryl Sullivan. She's sober. She's amazing. And I was like a complete train wreck until I started this podcast. Stop it. If you were to ask me why I'm choosing this path, that's a whole nother podcast, okay? Well, I want to hear more about that. No, tell us your story first. But for the holidays, since my ex-husband is French and a lot older than I am, we spent a lot of time with...

my family. So I'm just so grateful to have been able to spend time with my twin brother and my sister and our family and my kids and their children, like always had like a really nice time together going by myself.

on a train or in a car or on a plane with my two kids always traveling alone was something that, you know, I used to dread so much. And it was always like, you know, the kids and then there's Kelly and like, who's Kelly's going to sit next to because she's by herself. And I mean, obviously my family's beautiful to me, but I don't think that they ever knew that that would affect me, but it was always, you know, where am I going to sit or who am I going to sit next to? Our cute parents.

Starting new traditions like now that you have this space of being your own and your your most powerful self. Are you starting new traditions with the kids? Well, so my both of unfortunately, both my parents are now deceased. And so I've been spending a lot of time, you know, continuing to spend time with with my twin brother. This year, we're going to be with some family friends, which is really nice. But we were going to originally just be together, just the three of us.

And, um, it was very like strange how last year we had spent time with a man that I was going to be getting married to, um, with his family. Oh, no. Daryl, tell her, don't ever do it again.

Don't ever. Kelly. It was a godsend that it didn't happen. I'll just say that. Deanna's going to see me on the street. She'll be like, Kelly? No. Kelly. No. Bad. See, I don't... The whole marriage concept is like... It is what it is. Like, look, I just don't think there's a rush. I think it's overrated. The whole, like... I am not in a rush to get married, but I would like to have...

I've always wanted to have the life and the relationship that I saw with my parents. I've always wanted that. I've always looked up to that. And not like it's some like Disney movie, but I mean, I literally like that's what that's how I see myself through.

throughout the next chapter of my life with a partner. Are you putting a lot of pressure on yourself? Because I believe it's generational too, don't you think? Like in a way back then, maybe it's like there was no talk of divorce, I would assume. Listen, I'm just going to this

process. I just started this podcast. So I am like, you guys are like way beyond me. I'm still in like, I'm still in like the guppy stage. So you guys have to give me a break. Cause I, I literally just my first like one person podcast where I literally was crying and I couldn't even get the words out. I think I'm with Cheryl. I feel like I was like, I'm with Cheryl. Nope. Nope. I,

Value companionship. I value partnerships. I value commitment. All of those things. I no longer, now that I've already done it, I don't need to commingle my money. My... No. That is a hard... No. We are two individuals.

Oh, yeah. I literally called off my what my called off my engagement because I was like, if you're not going to sign this prenup, there's no at a girl. No prenup. No me. No, no, no. No commingling. No, no, no. Mama works hard and mama pays for her own place. And I pay for my own groceries and my own car and my own house children. And I don't need that.

Correct. I would love for someone to walk alongside me. I would like that. But I don't have a contract that binds it. We're not one. Just because we're together does not mean like two separate people, two separate lives, and hopefully we're compatible. Great. Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford, and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty.

Well, I don't know about you, but like I never liked being told, oh, wow, you look so good for your age. Like, why even bother saying that? Why don't you just say you look great at any age, every age? That's what Meaningful Beauty is all about. We create products that make you feel confident in your skin at the age you are now. Meaningful Beauty. Beautiful skin at every age. Learn more at MeaningfulBeauty.com.

Attention parents and grandparents. Are you searching for the perfect gift for your kids this holiday season? Give the gift of adventure that will last all year long. A Guardian Bike. The easiest, safest, and quickest bikes for kids to learn on. Kids are learning to ride in just one day. No training wheels needed. What sets Guardian Bikes apart?

Designed especially for stability, they're low to the ground with a wide wheelbase and ultra-lightweight frames, offering superior control and balance. This design gives young riders the ability to learn in just one day, without tears or frustration. Guardian bikes are the only kids' bikes designed and assembled in a USA factory, ensuring top-notch quality and durability.

They were also featured on Shark Tank and are the New York Times Wirecutter Top Kids Bike Pick for 2024. Join the hundreds of thousands of happy families by getting a Guardian bike today. Their holiday sales have begun, offering the biggest deal of the year. Save up to 33% on bikes. No code needed. Plus, get free shipping and a free bike lock and pump with your first purchase after signing up for their newsletter. Visit GuardianBikes.com to take advantage of these deals and secure your holiday gifts today.

Happy riding.

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So, Deanna, like what if you're walking, if you're in the supermarket, because, you know, that's where you meet the hottest guys is always in the supermarket. So what if you're in the supermarket and you meet some hot guy? What are you going to do? No, they are not in Whole Foods. They are not. They're not standing next to a staircase. They're not doing it. They're not.

They probably are. You just don't see them. I seriously never leave my house. By the way, just because you're wearing a hat doesn't mean that makes you hotter, by the way. It does. I'm not paying attention. I'm not listening to anyone and I don't pay attention at all whatsoever. But also it's energy, right? Like if you are ready when you are ready there, you know, it's like I my energy is like, don't look at me twice. That's what my energy is giving off.

Meanwhile, you're so gorgeous. That's hard for a lot of people. They're like, you're like, don't look at me. They're like, I don't leave my house like I Instacart. I don't go to grocery stores. By the way, I know a lot of people in Santa Barbara, like really good people. I'm going to I'm going to introduce you to. OK. Makeup and hair. It looks so perfect. Well, thank you. And it's just therapeutic for me. It takes me three hours to get ready. I'm not kidding.

No, that's too much. Three hours? But I don't have kids. Oh my God, I'm a 15 minute. Well, today I got my hair blown out, but like if it's my own self, I'm like 15 minutes. I like lay out my clothes. I know exactly what I'm wearing. Boom. What can my listeners do that are listening on this Thanksgiving day? What can they do to really, you know, I guess fill the void of being alone? Like any suggestions as far as keeping their spirits up?

Um, I, okay, Kelly, forgive me, but I believe there is a really safe space being alone. I, I genuinely love being alone. I think there is a spot where you can sit in your own self and get to know yourself. And that's so mature of you. Oh, yeah.

It's not always easy. It's called adulting. Like, wow. I'm like truly adulting. You guys don't use words. I don't know what they mean yet. Don't use adulting and things like that. It's not fair. Adulting? Kelly, you better know what that means. I would say it's not always easy. I have had a really tough week. I have looked...

at some hard things in my life this week and I have felt really lonely. I felt really, really alone. And I think that's a very...

humanly nature thing to do, you know, to just sit in your own space and just feel really alone and want. Do you, I mean, like, honestly, is it better like when someone feels, let's say lonely, and they're having to go like, this is the worst, like when I have to go to a family gathering, and the last thing I want to do is just pretend I'm happy and like,

all festive and like you know everyone's all in their couples and my sister's with her fiance my mom and my stepdad and then it's like me and my little Frenchie who like snores really loud and there's always this like awkward thing where it's like okay do I help with the decoration like do you need help like what do I do I guess what do you I thrive and it's like that really rise

I do because I do feel like a very strong woman. I feel very confident. I feel really empowered. Where do you get that from? Your family? You were raised right. Lots of trauma therapy. You know, I always was kind of this person. And then I got married and I lived in a marriage where there was a lot of

brokenness and, and trauma and just gaslighting and manipulation. And there was a lot of things. I was never going to please the man that I was with. I was never going to be pleasing, but to me, that's okay because I'm not a pleasing human being. I, I,

love me and I love myself and I feel very strong and very kind and secure in who I am. And there was a moment in time that that got taken away from me. Someone that I loved so much. I truly wanted to be a pleasing wife. And what I thought

the Bible designed for a woman to be. And I think that that just took everything from me. I lost who I was. And I think through tons of therapy and, and, and, and diving in dogs, diving into me again, I'll never lose that ever again. I,

I know who I am. I know what I want. I know how I want to be treated and I will never, ever settle and I will never, ever lose me again. Preach.

I'll never do it.

When you're being really pushed down like that or just people are trying to make you feel like you're not doing what they... How you should be doing it or the way that they want you to do it or the best way, this way, whatever it is, or you're just not good enough for that moment. I think that for me, that was one of the times where I would just...

I could just feel it. I have really bad psoriasis and I could just feel my psoriasis. Like it would just like start to go crazy and I could literally feel it. And then I would just like close my eyes and I would just be like that. I'm like, I am not going to let anybody take me away from me.

And for some weird reason, like swearing at myself. This is after someone had gaslit me and told me that I was awful and no one liked me and I had no friends and da-da-da. I was going to be nobody. I was always going to be nobody. Every single guy I've ever dated, you're a nobody. You're an absolute nobody. You're a nobody. Even on television, I was always a nobody. You're awful, human, fat, ugly, nobody, uneducated. I mean, even whatever. And

I would literally just say that to myself with my eyes closed. And I swear to God, the energy just shifted. And I'm like, I'm not going to put up with...

anyone. And like the next day I would do something like wildly successful or, you know, really good, like whatever. I would run faster or do whatever it was. I don't know if that's healthy, but that was my way of coping with, you know, just feeling like, like really feeling like shit. And I could feel myself also just

Like I could, my adrenaline would be so high that I could feel myself actually losing weight. I know that sounds like a weird thing, but I could literally feel myself losing weight. No, I hear, I can relate so much.

Like it's interesting because the body keeps the score. Like it really does. So like when it comes to any type of- Have you read that book, Cheryl? A million times. I love it. A million times. Have you read it, Kelly? You have to read it. No, I have to read this. I'm going to get it for you for Christmas. It is, I mean, you can also listen to it on Audible. It's a doozy though. So maybe it's better to read it. But it is so true. Like when you're talking about your psoriasis being like activated in a way, it's your bot. I mean, I still have so much trauma. And this is why I also do somatic therapy.

therapy as well. But like, this is why dance saved my life because it's like, there is a way to tap into it. Right. And your body's telling you something, Kelly. So when you stood up for yourself, did it go away? When I stood up for my own self, when I told myself, like, I didn't have anyone, I didn't tell anyone, oh my God, this is happening. I just was like, no one is going to tell me that I'm not good enough and I'm just going to go and be better. Right.

Because I wasn't going to put up with it anymore. And did it affect your body, though? Did it go away? I mean, it would be ebb and flow throughout that. But it's not exactly the easiest thing. And when you can see something, it's different to feel something than when you actually see it on your body. And people are like, wow, you're really irritated today or something's going on with your arm. And I'm just like, ew. Yeah.

Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford, and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty.

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I got hives all over my face. Okay, so I used to be...

heavy drinker and I was the type of drinker where you didn't know if I was drunk or sober. So that's the most dangerous type of alcoholic, I think. And when my father passed away, all of a sudden I took one sip of a vodka soda, which was my poison of choice. And I just broke out into hives because I hadn't dealt like literally, I mean, I stopped drinking for material reasons straight up. And then I just decided I just don't have any desire, I guess, to continue drinking. But like,

It is very interesting how like your body, like you can feel it. Like I, when I get anxiety, when my heart drops to my stomach, it's like, and then yet we're all intuitive. Like all of us have it right. It's just about trusting yourself and really listening to your body, I guess.

which is interesting. Well, Deanna, I don't want anyone to gaslight you. And if they are gaslighting you, text me and I will talk to you because I don't like that. So I'm like, now I'm going to be like the gaslighting cop. That just doesn't work for me. And I won't let anyone talk to me like that. And I definitely am not going to let anyone talk to you like that. So that's just not happening. I think a really unhealthy relationship teaches you what is not right. So I...

hopefully hopefully uh i was a very secure attached human being before i got married i feel like you are still i was gonna say that well i am now i know because i've tested since kelly who are you remember we talked about this last time i'm working on it i'm a work in progress you gotta send her that test

I am a very securely attached human being now. And I was before I got married, but somewhere along the way in a relationship as I tried to find myself and tried to become this, I mean, codependent, that's what we were. You know what I mean? This. I'm definitely there still. This person who relied on another human being. It took me, it was very hard for me to learn that.

to rely on another human being. So there was the, the lines were very flawed with me. Um,

when it came to relying on another human being and then being my own. And so when, when the marriage ended, it was very hard for me and very traumatic to, to reshape the lines. Because you were vulnerable and you, you basically let go of control, right? Yes. In order to be able to be that vulnerable person with somebody. Yes. See, I've never had that because I was a provider. I never, I,

I never was. I was codependent in the way that I would try to make myself feel like I needed that person, even though I was the one doing all the work. And so it was this very like, you know, this this crazy strong dynamic with myself of like.

you know, can I trust this, really trust this person? Like, you know, how much can I ask of them? And never like asking anything, like never saying, like asking them a question or, you know, second guessing anything, like just never, you know, which was... Well, and codependency in general is really...

really really gross I mean it's just awful have you read the book codependent no more I think I but I definitely have had some codependency with some guys that I've dated in the past I definitely have had that absolutely there's a waterfall effect when you have codependency yes you know how to be codependent I think that it is a it is a slippery slope

But it's also in different forms. Like I'm rereading it, right? There's a new codependent, no more like a newer version. And I'm actually listening to it right now. And I'm shocked as to what I was hearing. Cause I was like, wait, I thought codependency meant like codependency. Like I need you in my, I need another person in my life that I'm going to just rely on for everything. But it's not that it's also being the breadwinner and also wanting to. Oh my gosh. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning. It's so great to hear from you. It's all the thing. So,

So we were talking about dating into the holidays and it's all of those things. I think about why do I even bother? Why do I even bother dating? Right. Simply because you slip or I also think and Cheryl and Kelly tell me if I'm wrong, but I think I'm in a place that I'm too healed. I'm too...

I've had too much therapy. You think there's such a thing as too much therapy? I am too therapized. Absolutely. Interesting. I've never heard that before. I haven't either. I've been in therapy since I was four. You're, no, you're very, you have such empathy and...

and you know you're very verbal and you're very open and communicative also in a place where like every time some guy texts me every single morning he's like hey good morning and i'm like nope nope this is a red flag it's a red flag hard bed flag no one should text you every single day what aren't you doing don't you have a job what are you what is life

It takes two seconds, though, mind you, to text good morning. I think that's nice that he's saying good morning. I think that's so thoughtful. No, it's not. I think I think you're just not ready to be maybe in a relationship. That's OK, though.

Yeah. I think it's good. It's nice to when you're when someone there's someone that you care about when they say something like they send you like a meme or say good morning. Why is it a red flag? I'm just out of curiosity. For me, it's a red flag because they don't know you yet. So I'm only saying that in a sense. I totally hear you. I get it. Yes. If you've only known every morning or two, they don't truly know you. No, that's weird.

the depth of like your core, they shouldn't be texting you every single day. Unless you asked for that, right? Like that's one thing. Yeah. Which I'm pretty sure I can bet my right ass cheek you didn't ask for that. I didn't. No, but I'm a texter. So I, that's what I do with my friends, like work. I'm like, good morning. How are you? Hope you have a great, great day. Like I'm, that's like my way of. Maybe I'm too, maybe I'm dead. Can you start texting me that? That would be nice. I would definitely. I'll be like, hi, Cheryl.

Put me on that chain. Copy, paste, copy, paste. No, I don't copy and paste. I write it myself. No, that's what I would do. I don't have the freaking... I'm like, come on, how can I multitask though? There's no such thing. What do you girls think about splitting the holidays with your kids? Like, I remember I did that until my dad decided to move out of the country. But...

How do you feel about all that? I don't know if you're doing it yet, Kelly. Are you? I've never split my... I've always had my kids. I've only had been on holidays with my kids. I've never... I've had my ex's kids with us, but I've never not been with my children. And I will... I mean, that's something that I'm in fear of is like, you know, I'm excited for them because my kids are so much older. They're 24 and 26. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But...

what happens when they meet these, these guys and they're like, mom, we're going to go to so-and-so's house. I want to be devastated. I'm gonna be like, what, where? I would tell you, my children are almost nine and almost 11 and we split. And I would say it's really, really hard. I see them. So this is my first Thanksgiving alone with the kids. So I'm thankful my dad and his wife will come out and be with us because I was really worried about, um,

us being alone, you know, because I feel like I'm in this space where I'm just trying to go above and beyond to make sure the kids are full and happy and loved and have this really wonderful life that they feel really full when they're with me because I want them to love to be with me.

And because I am single and he has a girlfriend, I also sit in this other space where I just want to go.

I can choke her. You totally girl. Thank you. I am really grateful that she is kind. I was like, totally. Here you are. Let's talk. Let's be real. It is like a double edged sword. I am really thankful that she is kind to my children and that she is kind. She better be. What the hell? You don't get a gold star to be kind. I set my ex-husband up with a,

a girl, I mean, a woman so that I could be like, we're done. I literally was like, here's your new girlfriend or done. Stop it. I couldn't take it anymore. A hundred percent. I did not do that. I did. You are with someone for so long. Like I was with my ex-husband for 15 years and then it was like, okay. So overnight I don't feel like I know him.

At all. Like, like literally I went to sleep and I woke up and I'm like, who the fuck is this human being? And just that alone for me in particular is really hard. And it's really hard to grasp because when you marry someone and you're, you're with someone for that long, you are most intimate with that human being. And so to go with

From that, and again, I didn't ask for divorce. It was his choice. Although I'm grateful for it now. I'm very happy now. It is amazing to me how it goes overnight. You do not know that person anymore. They are no longer your human. Is it the communication or like what happened?

I think it's a number of things. See, mine was a slow death. Mine was like a crock pot where I was in there just boiling up and boiling up. I was like, okay, it's continuing. It's continuing. It's continuing. I can only handle so much.

I couldn't take it. Because I am so loyal to a fault. I am loyal to a fault to myself that I likely would have wrote it out for 60 years. I would have stayed married. I would have been in this unhappy marriage for 60 years for the rest of my life. I would have seen my children graduate high school and college and get married and have children themselves. And I would have lived in this unhappy marriage had he not died.

chosen to leave. But it's a blessing because like if I, my mom didn't choose to leave my father, I don't think I would be here today because kids are very observant as you know, and we can feel it all. So it's like at the end of the day, what's the healthiest scenario, you know? I mean, I agree with you down too. Like, I mean, I would have stayed even though it was just such a horrible situation. Like I didn't know any, I'm from Rockford, Illinois. I mean, no one gets divorced in Rockford, Illinois. And they're like,

Kelly, no one in the world knows who Rock of Illinois is. I'm just saying, I'm older than you are. Why? No one knows. First of all, true story. No one knows who Rock of Illinois is, exactly. But people get divorced there. When someone got divorced, my parents would be like, they got divorced. I was like, oh my God, what does that mean? What happened?

Like, is it infectious? Like, is it contagious? But that's why it's important to have these conversations because it's normal. But I know, but my point is, I'm with like Deanna, like I would have stayed. I just, I just could, I just couldn't do it anymore. My kids were growing up and...

And it was just like so much. I was alone so much. And then what I was exposed to on top of that, it was just like I couldn't handle it. Thank God you guys didn't stay. The kids said to me, once I finally moved into a place of my own and we were here for a year, and I said to the kids, how are you? How are you feeling? And again, I'm pro-mental health. I have had them in therapy. I'm doing all of the things to make sure that they –

God, I hope turn out okay. And as as possible, I'm trying all of the all of the things that I remember saying to my kids, you know, how, how are you? What do you think now that it's just me here and daddy's in his own space? And the kids looked at me and they said, we're really grateful. We don't have to hear you fight anymore.

Right? Do they, are they open to you with their feelings? Tell me that's not like gut-wrenching. Tell me that's not just gut-wrenching. To this day, I could sob right now because I would say that Stephen and I both thought we were doing a really good job to hide it from them. Yeah.

It's just like, we're like, my parents never fought in front of me, but like, I felt it heavy. It was heavy. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that we were doing a really good job of protecting the kids, but really. But you did by breaking up.

Seriously, though. Seriously, I can't even. It's hard probably to see. I mean, for me, I honestly think I would have. I already have a bad pattern of picking men because I never really had a stable man in my life as far as when I was a young girl. But like, I don't even think I think I would have been off my rocker if I witnessed more than what I witnessed with my parents. Yeah.

Yeah, I think that I learned through lots of therapy that I come from a long history of abandonment. Like my mother died when I was young and that's a source of abandonment.

I'm sorry.

in my life where I'm just, I'm not willing to do that any longer. I want someone and I don't care who they are. I don't care what they look like. I don't care what they do for a living. I don't care how much money they make. I just want to feel loved and chosen and I won't settle for less than that. That's beautiful. Hi, I'm Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty.

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I was attracted to the bad boy. So like, I hope to get to where you are because that's all. I didn't have that father figure, you know? Yeah. But yeah, I also come from abandonment. I am very much anxious attachment. Hello. My name is Cheryl Burke and I'm anxious attachment and a recovering alcoholic. So there's that. How about you, Kelly?

Are you into solo traveling during the holidays or in general when you're single? I mean, I've done it the entire time. Always just traveled with my kids. Like on vacation and stuff? You know, that mom just with her kids. Everyone else is like, you know, the kids are the father and mother are screaming at their kids. And I'm just like sitting there.

My kids are not moving. And I also am like, wait a minute, this is so not fair. Like I'm the one that's sitting there and my kids are well-mannered and everybody else has like a co-parent and the kids are running around like, like, you know, wildfire. I'm like, how is this fair? You have your kids in check and then you've got two grown ass adults. Yeah. Yeah. Why, why do I have to be that person? Why can't I, why can't my kids be like, you know, drinking too much Coca-Cola and like. How about solo traveling without kids? Yeah.

Way too much sugar in Coca-Cola. I'm just kidding. We did miss a flight though once because my kids were like on their phones and I just was like, okay, you guys are responsible. We totally missed the flight. My twin brother was like incensed. What are you guys doing? I'm like, we missed the flight.

We never missed a flight since then. How about solo traveling without kids? I love traveling solo. I have so much anxiety when I travel. No, Kelly, it's the best thing in the entire world. I love it so much. Because I started modeling when I was 15, so I traveled so much as a young person before

And just traveling like all over the place. Like people are like, oh, modeling is so great. You are always by yourself on a plane to like Asia, to Europe, to California, to New York. And it's like one day here, one day there. And by yourself, it was so much. And then when my kids, I mean, I couldn't even travel with my kids. I couldn't even drive a car for a long period of time.

I couldn't be alone. I'm a corporate flight attendant. I've done it for over 14 years. I...

Love it. If I am home too long, I feel lost. I need to be on the road. I need to be traveling. I need to go and be somewhere and stay in a hotel and eat up all of the things. But Kelly, you said people are always like, oh my gosh, your life is so amazing. You're traveling to all these places and you're going all over the world. And you know what I would say is I do it alone.

I am alone most of the time and I do genuinely love my job. I love what I do. I love the family that I work for. I am so deeply grateful for them and for the paycheck and I could put a roof over the kids' heads, but I do it alone all the time. I'm alone on the road all

99.5% of the time. Would you like to not be alone? Would you want someone to travel with you? I think that if I could live in a perfect world,

and I were to have someone and choose someone, I would love it if they would join me. Yes. That would be because I genuinely love to travel and deeply love my job. I think if I were to find someone and they were a good match for me, it would, it would be for them to join me on the road. Yeah. Has it ever been like a thing where you were dating and let's say it's just too hard because of your schedule of traveling or. Yeah.

Yeah. Melissa, why do you think I'm still single, Cheryl? Well, I mean, I don't travel. So no, I would say that it is literally my life revolves around my job or I have the kids. Yeah. Have you met anyone traveling like that?

I have. And I think that I meet really great people when I'm on the road. I would, I meet people that I would actually really like to have a relationship with. Um, but I'm on the road.

You know, it's interesting is that too, like, you know, I travel a lot for work now as well. And, you know, I find myself, even though I don't have to come home. I mean, my kids are older, they go to work, they have their own jobs, but I still find myself, when I was a model, I'd be like, I have to take the right eye home. I have to get home. You know,

I always have to get home to my kids, always had to get home to my kids. And I still do the same thing. I'm like on a flight, 6 a.m. to Florida, and I'm on a flight coming home. I'm like, wait, I could be staying overnight. I could be feeling gorgeous like wherever I am. And I'm like on a plane to be back home just in case. I'm always like just in case, just in case. Oh, you're a good mom. Yeah.

No, but I mean, like, yeah, that's right. Like, I mean, it's one thing to be alone and I, I understand, I understand what I do and how I do it. But, you know, I also can like maybe give myself a little, I can actually give myself a little grace and say like, it's okay to do some things that I may like. Yeah. Like, why not? And like pamper yourself and give back to yourself. Yeah.

Right. I mean, I think it's so, I love when Donna said she gave, you know, she gives a lot other people all this grace, but I think too, we need to also really give ourselves. I mean, it's, you know, that's the lesson. That's the takeaway that I'm getting from today is like giving myself some grace. And I think that's what we do when we choose to be single, to be quite honest, though it's hard.

And at times, especially I think around the holidays, it gets triggered for me at least. But what are also some great things about being single over the holidays? Other than I don't have to. I mean, I used to go all out with my ex-husband. I paid for crazy ass gifts. Listen, you can come home. I have the best house. I have the best neighbors and I pay for it.

All by myself. Good for you. And whatever I want and I can watch whatever I want and I can do whatever I want. Amen. A lot of peace in that. And eat whatever you want. And whatever time you want. Yes.

Walk around with a mask on. Whatever. Whatever. In your pajamas. Pimple patches. No one can say a word. If someone is coming into this, if they are, they have to be really great because it's going to take a lot for me to give up what I have right now. Why do you have to give up what you have? Men are needy. Yeah, but then no, you're not. No, no. You remember we talked about in the beginning with two individuals, you know, right?

Coming into this thing, so-called relationship. Yeah. Yeah. I will never ever again. I will not. I'm going to be me and live my life and feel full in this aspect of

And I will only ever choose to bring someone else into that if they add to it. Correct. But I'm just trying to think back to Cheryl's question about like, what are the things that like are good to be when you're, you know, why is it good to be single during the holidays? So you can eat what you want, drink what you want, wear what you want, wear the makeup that you want, the fragrance that you want. Buy gifts for yourself instead of someone else. You can buy gifts for yourself.

No one is micromanaging or... Also the in-laws, like not everyone has great in-laws or had great in-laws, you know? It's like, you were lucky, Deanna. I was lucky. I'm still really lucky. I really love them. Before we wrap it up, what are you guys both looking forward to this holiday season? What am I looking forward to?

I moved out of my apartment into an apartment with my ex-fiance and back into my own little apartment, which I actually love. It's like a hug. And to have our tree after Thanksgiving. Tomorrow we're going to get our tree and just really enjoy our holiday together and just do things together. And I told my daughter, I was like, I want to go skating. I just wanted to do like...

real things together. Like, not about shopping, but just, like, whatever they want to do. Go to the movies. Just do things that, like, make us a strong family. Oh, my God, I'm going to cry. I know! I've wanted to cry a thousand times. I don't have kids. Hence why there's a dry eye over here. I'm just so happy to, like, be with my girls and...

I am. I'm just like, just be with us and like, not like, you know, if the present's not right or, you know, I just am like, I just don't want that. I want to just like spoil my kids and show them how much I love them and just wear pajamas with feet in them. Oh, you guys are such good moms. You want to adopt me? I'm just kidding. I'll take you. Send me your address. I'll send you Christmas presents. Oh, thanks.

My love language is not gift giving. It's like, no, it's not. It's the one where someone has to like clean up after himself. What's that called? A grown man. Yeah, right. Housekeeper. New Year's. Yeah, exactly. My babysitter. That's what I need for Christmas. What are New Year's? Any New Year's resolutions, gals?

Oh, I'm not good with resolutions. Yeah, me either. For me, I think like...

Actually, I need to stop shopping. I'm an addict. Hi, my name is Cheryl and I'm an addict. We know this. But now I find it therapeutic to... It's Black Friday right now on Amazon. Just letting you know. I know. Shopping first step for the kids. It's in... You should have seen it yesterday. It was box... It was... I mean, whatever. It made me feel good though. Time. I think if I could just stop eating, that would be really good. Like if I could just... Please. Stop it.

We don't want you to stop eating. We want you to be healthy. No. And by the way, you're like a professional cook. I swear. I was looking at your Instagram. I said it before, but I am really, really grateful that I love my job and I love what I do. And I genuinely love to cook.

Hot pockets. I, you don't understand. I was raised with hot pockets. So like. Hot pockets. I love anything between a puff pastry. Love me some hot pockets. See, I can make food, but I'm not sure if it's good or not.

I feel like I am genuinely Why don't you taste it? What? Taste it? I put Windex on it. Are you kidding me? I bake because I'm OCD and I am to the measurement. You guys are great for me to be around. I need to be around more of you guys more because you're good for me. You're a good balance. I need more OCD. I need more the Nerdtroom Deanna. Okay, I'll put it. Okay, for sure.

Everything will be okay. And if it's not just numb through productivity, it works. Let's see. I'm not a big resolution. Like I'm more of a solution kind of person. Yeah. That's my thing with my kids. I'm like, okay, what's this? We know what the problem was. What's the solution. That's what I tell them all the time.

So we know what the problem is from last year. And I'm not married. And I am moving forward. That's not a problem. That's not a problem. Yeah. Wait, wait. We have the solutions. It's a blessing. It was a blessing. But this year, my solution for this year is to

do more things that make me genuinely happy so that like I went at the beginning when we were talking about putting on my safety belt, just so that I feel happy. And so that I can express that to other people. And that's what I really, really want because then I can be more productive and maybe a better cook, maybe a kinder person, maybe a better human, um,

Maybe you'll just love yourself more and realize, you know what? I hate cooking, so I'm not going to waste my time. Don't do it. I'm just going to go over to Deanna's house. I want to be like, Deanna's starving. What can I make for me? Did you stalk her Instagram like I did? She made some amazing hot pockets with eggs in it. Love. Breakfast hot pockets. Delicious. God, that sounds good. I'm just going to be over here eating stuffing until I blow up.

Thanks to my single sisterhood. This was great chatting with you both. And we want to wish all of you listening a happy Thanksgiving and holiday season. We are here for you listeners during these colder months. So if you are single and want some advice, we want to hear from you.

Call us 1-844-4IDEO-POD, 844-443-6763 or email us at idopodatiheartradio.com.

Follow us on Instagram and TikTok at idopart2pod. All this information will be in the show notes. Make sure to rate and review this podcast. I Do Part Two, an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love is the main objective. ♪

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