If You Don't Want Your Guy To Cheat, Make Sure He Has This Job
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Listen to Welcome to the Party, that's P-A-R-T-E-E, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to ID Part 2, the podcast for people that maybe didn't find their happily ever after the first time around. I'm one of your hosts, Jana Kramer, and today I'm joined by one of our favorite celebrity mentors here on the podcast, former pro dancer for 26 seasons on Dancing with the Stars. It's my girl, Sheryl Burke. Hey, girl. Hey, girl.

Hey. Today, we're going to dive into the topic of divorce, something we know nothing about. Some celebs in the headlines, new trends in divorce. We're going to bring in Kate Simmons, a divorce attorney with Simmons Law Group. She's got a video right now that is popping up all over the internet. So let's get her in here and do a deep dive on this. Kate, thank you so much for coming on the show. I kind of want to start this off and we'll just deep dive right into it.

So when I saw your video, so you've got this video going viral right now on TikTok and some other streamers. And you basically said like, here are the three people that are most likely not going to cheat, right?

you said farmers, accountants, and pharmacists. Is that accurate? That's right. That's what's on the video. So when I watch it, and maybe this is just like my jaded heart from my past relationship, but I'm like, A, how did you come up with that? But also in my mind, I'm like, a dude's going to cheat no matter what they do, right? So it's like, and a lot of times, you know, my last...

husband was a professional athlete. All right. He's in the terrible category of most likely going to cheat. Not saying they all do because now my husband was a professional athlete as well, has never cheated. Wouldn't dare to fricking cheat is the most respectful man. Never cheated on his ex. Wouldn't cheat on me. Whether I mean anything it's like, so it's like to label someone a cheater or not a cheater to me is kind of like, how can you even do that in a way?

You're so right. And you can't really do that. I mean, I've done videos that have gone viral and let's just get it out of the way. The most likely to cheat men, of course, men are going to cheat. You're spot on. I see it every day. Cops, firefighters. I mean, divorce lawyers will joke behind the scenes. Like if you married a cop, that was your first mistake.

So we talk about people in law enforcement, EMTs, firefighters, most likely 100% of the time. 100% of the time? Not 100% of the time. But if someone calls and they say it's, you know, the talk of the fire station, the talk of the cop shop, I mean, that we expect. Right.

So when those videos got so popular, we got all this feedback about who's not cheating, women and men who are more or less likely to be in the consult chair talking about cheating. And so we just came up with like 10 occupations that we don't see that much accountants, librarians.

We said teachers long ago and the Internet started on fire like here are all these teachers that are cheating. But it is really difficult outside of the occupations I mentioned. You know, something really interesting about cheating that I think is coming to the forefront more. And when I talk to women today,

middle-aged women, there's, let's set aside the young guys that are acting inappropriately. But when we see families broken apart by true affairs and women come in in their late 30s and 40s, I want to hear from both of you if you agree, if you think this is mainstream information. But I describe to these women that

when men are finding these other lives and they're going to another person,

It's really easy for the wife to say, what did I do wrong? What did I do in this relationship to cause this? And I think it's becoming more understandable and people are accepting the feedback from me more readily that those people, those men, let's just stick with the gender bias. Those husbands are unhappy with themselves. Right.

That it's not something that these women are doing or it always takes two when a relationship breaks down. But I think it's becoming much more of a positive spin in a way for them to move forward in their lives for their new beginning to recognize that those men are unhappy with themselves and they're looking for something. And they're looking for something that does not stem from the fault of the other spouse. Right.

Cheryl, when you got divorced, was your first thought, did you go into why? Was it because I wasn't this or that? Yeah. And I think it actually stems from the way I was raised. I don't think it just... I think that's a natural... We're all human. And I think the first thing we do is in a way, shame ourselves, blame ourselves, and definitely try to put the pieces together and get answers. But sometimes there's just no answers. And

For the most part, I think naturally my brain went to, yeah, what did I do wrong? Did I not sleep with him enough? Did I, you know, there's all these questions that I ask myself. Was I not there emotionally? Was I not? It's just, but ultimately, intellectually, I know, of course, it has nothing to do with me. It has everything to do with that person.

But naturally, right. And if I wasn't in therapy for as long as I've been in therapy, it would have really taken a toll on my own self-esteem, my confidence, just me as a woman in general, you know? Yeah. And I think Kate, to your thing too, I mean, and to kind of what you're saying, Cheryl, I remember it's my first thought was when I found out that he, when he was cheating was, you know, why am I not enough for you to,

like, is, is what's wrong with me that he went to, to go be with someone else? Like was, you know, but my thing was, I went back to old conversations that we had, like, I'll never forget. We were sitting at this restaurant and I was asking him like, you know, why he wouldn't be physical with me or sleep with me. And he's like, well, look what you, you look what you wear to bed. And I'm like, I, I wear a big, like a big t-shirt, you know? And he's like, you think that's sexy? Really? You think that's sexy? And I'm like,

I've just never been a lingerie girl. Right. So I never did pull on lingerie. I always thought the big boyfriend t-shirt was sexy and like, but like, uh, I, he immediately blamed his, and I didn't know he was cheating at that point.

on the fact that I didn't dress sexy. So once I found out, I was like, oh, it's because I wasn't sexy enough for him. So he chose something else that was sexier. And so immediately I went to, I wasn't good enough. I'm not pretty enough for him to, or sexy enough. And I, you know, I didn't give him what he needed. So that's why. And I need to now do this to please him so that he stays and like, doesn't do it again. But he was just gaslighting.

you, you know, and I know that now, but it took, I mean, years of therapy to go, Oh, wait a minute. This has nothing to do with me. I was always good enough. I was always pretty enough. And I was, it was always his low self-esteem. But when I go back to all the comments, he was trying to bring my self-esteem down to make himself feel better. But you don't know that when that happens, right? Like when you're going through that divorce, you're like, why wasn't I good enough? Why couldn't he stay for me and like treat me this way. Now this other girl, it's like, no,

So I think, you know, when I, you know, Kate, I guess, you know, another question is that is when I was talking to my now husband, I was telling him, we were kind of talking about infidelity and he's like, I said, you know, the main reason that I left him wasn't because he cheated. It was because of the lies and it was because of the deceit. And he's like, what? Not because he slept with other women. And I'm like, no, it was because he lied about it and he wasn't honest. And he was, it was the, it wasn't the act.

It was the lie and it was the deceit. That's why. And not taking accountability and sticking to it. Like it's a whole thing, right? Like it's never the act of, it's always. Never. It's not. It's like, and the act hurts. Yeah. I can forgive. And I tried, but it's always the deceit and the lie. And so Kate, do you see that a lot with is, you know, when people file for divorce, you know, is it infidelity or do you see it as the, the, the, you know, the lie?

You're right on. It's the lie. It's not the infidelity. It's not, I'm here the day after I found out about this affair. And you've also identified a huge difference in the maturity level of 20-year-old women that I see, 30-year-old women that I see, and 40. I mean, and this is partly personal experience, but as I talk to female clients, and frankly, I do have about a 50-50 split gender-wise, but

And with my female clients, it's a different mindset when they're coming in. You're so much more confident. Think of what a different person you are.

20-year-old Janet, a 30-year-old Janet, 30-year-old Cheryl to 40-year-old Cheryl. I mean, it's like our milestones are huge. And so, yes, absolutely. It's he wouldn't do the work necessary or maybe she cheated. And I just did a consult recently. I had an affair 10 years ago.

I was willing to move on. I was willing to go to therapy. I wanted to do the work and he couldn't. He never got over it. He throws it in my face every day and it just drags the relationship to a screeching halt. And so that's absolutely right. Can you get a great therapist or counselor, which can be difficult to do and do the work needed if both people want to save the relationship? And our law firm is very, very,

resolution oriented, reconciliation oriented, and it doesn't happen a lot. But if people are like, we need a therapist, we want to work on this, we want to put this on hold. I give lots of space for that timeline. And for that to happen. Does it happen a lot? No, it's like my sobriety, like without first of all, taking accountability and realizing what you did was my

wrong or in my case, when it comes to my sobriety is first admitting that I have a problem. Right. And you can't continue to see saw back and forth. Like it can't be like, oh yes, I do. Oh no, I don't. I'm just a social drinker. Like, no, I had to have a come to Jesus moment and be like, I actually have a drinking problem. And if I want to get better, I have to do the work and do the steps and get into a program and all of it. And that's the same thing with infidelity. It's, it was the teeter tottering. It's like,

okay, yes, no, maybe I didn't technically cheat on you or remember when you did this. It's like that to me just is a huge red flag. Cheryl, let me give you a virtual high five, virtual hug. Alcohol is the poison of family court. I am so impressed with you. What a great lifestyle. So congratulations. Thanks. Good for you, girl. Thank you. Who do you know on Unzempic or Semiglutide right now?

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Future Health is not a health care services provider. Meds are prescribed at provider's discretion. Results may vary. Sponsored by Future Health. This podcast is sponsored by Talkspace. You know when you're really stressed or not feeling so great about your life or about yourself? Talking to someone who understands can really help. But who is that person? How do you find them? Where do you even start? Talkspace. Talkspace makes it easy to get the support you need.

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What is the number one reason why people are getting divorced when they come into your office? Grown apart, different places in life. If I had to pick one, and I get that question a lot, so I would not select infidelity. I think that's really a byproduct of other things that are happening. I have a theory about society with this push to 20-year-old kids.

people, everybody, whoever you've been with for a year, it's like, what's the next step in life? Do you want to have kids? What are you doing? I think people, young people get married too quickly. If you really go through all of the seasons with someone, deal with difficulty, how do you two communicate? I am so lucky. I'm married to a man who's emotionally mature. He can communicate. And I don't see that a

It's people who are in different places and eventually take the kids out of it because sometimes people stay married or I'll see you when my kids are 15 and up because I know this isn't the right relationship for me. But looking back.

people see the red flags. I've had more than 10 consults in the last year that will say, I knew I shouldn't have married this person when we were walking down the aisle. That is so heartbreaking. Yeah, I had one of those. I had one of those and went into the bathroom and cried about it because I was like, well, crap. This is the thing with being in the business. It's like,

It just felt like a dress rehearsal. Yeah. Right. And why couldn't you, why couldn't you pull out of that moment? Oh, there was no way in hell. We had the magazine, you know, thing already. They were paid. They paid. Yeah.

I had Bindi Weiss involved like this was not people already had their tickets and how could I how could I ruin people's plans was what my thought was like their airline tickets or like their tickets to the show yeah like the plans how could I ruin that for them yeah I you're right they've already spent their money on it yep and nothing nothing in our thought process was like maybe this is wrong and I need to like run away bride it you know

That's yeah, that's the part where it's, you know, it's sad now to think because I believe and now I know in my, you know, this age being 40 that if I would have texted my mom and said, hey, I want to actually call this off because I don't think it's right. She would be like, I 1000% I will let everyone know and I will, you know, she would have been there. It was just my own embarrassment and maybe, you know, my not being

I wasn't 100% sure. So I thought maybe I'd change my mind. I thought maybe I'd get that feeling back when I walked down the aisle. What did you feel when you walked down the aisle? Just out of curiosity. Just complete regret.

Oh, really? You were present though with yourself? Yeah. Yeah. Cause I told my best friend in the bathroom, I was like, I just made the biggest mistake. And now I don't want to, my whole thing was, I don't want to be divorced with kids because that's the house that I grew up in. So I was like, I got to divorce them right away because I will end up having babies and then we'll get divorced. And I don't want that.

So that was why I then did that, you know? So, but it was, it was wrong and it was, it was real to somebody else. And that wasn't fair, you know? So now would you have gone, would you have stopped everything? A hundred percent. And that's why I think to your point, Kate is marrying later in life. You know yourself more now. And it's, I never want to tell, like when I hear someone young getting married, that's in their middle twenties or, you know, uh, like,

I'm like, oh gosh, it like almost like breaks my heart. And I always want to celebrate love, but I also know how much you grow during those years too. And yeah,

But then also, who am I to say? What is young? What is young? You know, I'm like, maybe they're, you know, maybe they'll end up being together forever. So who am I to say? And what a learning lesson. Like what I've learned, like I've learned so much too. Yeah. And so it's like, why would I want to take that away from people too? You know? Yeah. I do like the, the discussion of it's part of your story. It makes you part of who you are, but.

But my every day is seeing the heartbreak of divorce and the heartbreak that it brings even the greater family, everybody in the family unit. And so young people, I say, and I love weddings and I love love. And by the way, I love the name of this podcast. We did, uh, I have a friend who's, uh,

owns a magazine in our community. And we ran a short ad for our Divorce in a Day program that was, when your I do needs a redo, do it in a day. And I thought, oh, as soon as I saw the title of this podcast, I thought, that's fantastic. It's a great idea. Well, speaking of redos, though, I mean, Bill Gates recently made headlines because he was saying, you know, his divorce was the mistake he most regretted. And

You know, have you like you kind of spoke on it a little bit, but have you seen people then say, never mind? Like, yeah, you said that they want to maybe do therapy, but do they end up coming back and getting divorced or have you had more people actually pull it off the table? They will come back and get divorced. And I saw that in, you know, Bill and Melinda had a long term marriage and they

I thought the comment was interesting. I'm going to predict that he doesn't mean he wishes he was still married to her. I think they had their longstanding issues and it's a very painful process. It's very difficult.

almost never have people actually reconcile and stay reconciled. I've had couples get divorced, remarried, divorced. I divorced the same couple three times throughout my career. Um, and they're kind of just a love, hate, toxic, strong feelings. And no, we did a, Chris and I did a mediation recently where the couple really felt, um,

They knew strongly about their relationship. They knew it was the right thing. They were very sweet people. And they asked us to hold their paperwork. They wanted to give it, you know, a little bit of time and called within 60 days and said, file it. And with the final decree and everything, we don't really see the, the,

reconciliation that's successful long-term. So when you saw J-Lo and Ben then recon, I know they weren't married. They were engaged though. So when you saw them get back together, then get married, did you already go divorce?

Absolutely. They're just like that. I mean, it really is just like that couple. And of course, they have the height and the money, the attention, everything that goes along with being an A-lister and everybody's watching, which makes it more painful. I mean, you've seen some of J-Lo's statements, and I think it's incredibly painful. I also think that very famous celebrities tend to have...

traits of loneliness because that is such an isolating life to live, I think. I mean, that's because they're not, though, finding the true love which happens within you, right? Like you complete you regardless. Like there is no other person that would fill that void for you. So if you haven't done that work individually as two separate people, it's going to be really hard. You are leaving it up for so many expectations on one another that you're bound to not ever live up to it.

That's right. And not as a negative to people like Ben and J-Lo who have those egos. I don't mean that in a negative way. It's just part of their personality. But how exhausting to support someone as fabulous and famous as you are all the time and have that constant balance in your life. How do they find a balance? I think. But yeah, I figured they'll be splitting up again. ♪

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Do you think it's easier or more complicated to get divorced late in life? Easier. The silver divorce. Oh, yeah. So, Cheryl, what is that? Because I saw you were talking about silver divorce. So I don't know what it is. Tell me what it is. I just found out today. But silver divorce is like when you divorce later in life, right? When you're like in your 50s, 60s, I think. And you realize that, wow, this is not the person.

I want to live my rest of my life with. But I also think it's generational, right? So like, I just think about my

my parents right now, I come from a divorced family, but my mom remarried my stepfather. And if they were to divorce today, there's so much it's generational in the sense of, first of all, when my mom, you know, was being raised by her parents, there was no such thing like there. She's Filipino. She's very Catholic. And there's a lot of shame that comes with it. But I think with how open we are now with mental health, I think it's leaving that door

maybe a little bit open for that generation nowadays to be like, you know what? I'm going to choose me. That's right. And my message to women is choose you when you're,

40 or when the kids are out of the house. I have a lot of experience with gray or silver divorce, whichever you call it. My law firm's in Phoenix. We're very close to a lot of retirement communities, as you can imagine. And I have had a lot of the both men and women in their 70s, 80s, late 80s. Can you imagine going through this awful process? The silver lining is that

They're pretty calm about the whole situation. And here's the sad part. This is my message to middle-aged women because they knew. Say it's a silver divorce that they have been truly married 50 years, not a second marriage. And the kids are long gone. All of the properties, community is

They all say they first of all, everybody tells me how many years they've been living in separate bedrooms, how long it's been since they've had sex with each other. And it's decades. I mean, decades that that they've been living as roommates. And it's such an awful process. No one wanted to start it. But it's we all know where the three of us are about the same age. Yeah.

when you're 50, you have a whole life ahead of you. I mean, that's the heartbreaking part when I see the silver divorce because they've been roommates for decades, frankly. I see it the opposite. I think it's a beautiful thing that they're finally seeing themselves as their own person. And like we do, we evolve. And sometimes it's with that person you've decided to partner with.

And sometimes it's not. And that's okay. But I think it's beautiful that they're opening their eyes and trying to walk the rest of their life in a present, hopefully loving themselves way, you know, and doing that work. And I think it's really beautiful. It is beautiful. You're right. But it's always because the husband gets a girlfriend. I mean, but like you said earlier, it's deeper than that. It's so much deeper.

I don't think it's that just because of that. I think there was like, like you said, decades of not sleeping together, roommate like that goes. I have had that same experience, except not even close to as long as those people have been married. You know, that's feeling of stagnant, like that stagnation feeling. I am out. I'm out fast. I can't be in it.

You're right. That is it is much better. And with these communities that we have in this area, there's so many activities and new friend groups and support groups and any new beginning or a chance at finding yourself is worth it. I agree. Is it hard for you to be a divorce lawyer?

It's not. And I can't really explain the reason because most of my colleagues find it to be incredibly difficult on a personal level. They take the feelings home with them. And I've just never been like that. And I don't really know the reason. I'm just suited for the job. I see it as a puzzle. I really, really, I could be a life coach in another life, although I'm not trained for that. Yeah.

I really enjoy it. And I've as after 30, I no longer work every hour of the week, I have really good boundaries, all my clients have my cell phone number, they treat it appropriately. I really like my job. But I if other divorce lawyers are telling you the truth, I think I'm in the minority on that. How do you separate the emotion? Like, how do you do that?

It stays at the office. I really treat this as a job that I like. I care about my clients. I think they really care. I have wonderful clients. I'm very realistic with people. You probably know divorce attorneys, lawyers.

can treat the job as making a lot of money, fighting a lot, filing a lot of motions, billing by the hour, the more fighting, the sooner my kids get their college paid. I mean, that's a reality of the job. And our business model is saving people money,

keeping the emotions in check. I'm very realistic with them up front. We talk about their goals. We talk about the law. We talk about the process. We talk about mediation. And our office is trying to change the culture of divorce in Arizona. And that's how I treat it. Would you recommend a prenup for people that get married? I do recommend a prenup. And I don't think that...

It should hold the stereotype of you're getting a prenup and that's anti-love or if you're going to be together, you don't need it. I think there are many benefits to a prenup and anybody who's not 20 with nothing should consider it. Yeah, no, for sure.

I guess my piece with the divorce just for my personal stuff is the fact that, you know, I pay my ex-husband, I paid him a lump sum and I also pay him child support and I have the kids 70, it's 70-30 split. So I find it, I always get a little like frustrated when I have conversations of just, you know, because divorce and because it kind of just brings up all those, you know,

those feelings and that resentment. And it's just, it's just yuck. I don't like it. Do you wish you would have signed a prenup? We had a post-nup, but the problem was my divorce lawyer said it's not going to hold up in court as well as a prenup. And he's like, he technically can fight it and he could still technically win half. You know, which my...

ex-husband at the time was like, I will never fight this. You know what I mean? Um, which of course, when we got divorced, he's like, I'm going to fight this. But apparently again, they, the prenup will always hold up. And then you, if, is that right or wrong? A prenup holds up better than postnup. That's exactly right. So that's why, you know, with, with that situation, it's, uh,

I wish for sure I would have had signed a prenup with him, um, prenup, but you know, at the end of the day, I still would be paying child support. That is the law of with the things. And that's, you know, a whole other story, but, um, feel free to tell me to fuck off, but did you sign one this time around? So we have never discussed that. We're still not going to discuss that, but, um, but you know, it was, it was a very long conversation. We had a lot of conversation around it and, uh,

I think it's really hard for men to have that conversation. Especially, you know, my husband is very old school and, you know, did not love the idea of it. And, you know,

Whatever we decided was a private matter, but it was something that was very important. I'll just say it was very important to me because of how much was taken from my ex, how much my ex-husband took. I think you probably, even if you did or didn't, having that conversation, you're miles ahead of most people because it's such a tough topic. If you two...

talked it through and talked about all your assets and what you think for the future, you're doing better than a lot of people before they get married. So super. But my divorce attorney was definitely like...

you are having, like, there is no, like, he's like, you are signing this. And I'm just like, okay, I hear you. And I need to have, we'd have to have conversations. It's a conversation piece because I am, you know, old school in the fact that I do believe in, you know, love and a marriage actually lasting. I, you know, I didn't get it right this go around. And that's why I love this podcast. Cause this is about, you know, I do part two and, you know, Cheryl, I didn't get it right a couple of times and Cheryl, you know, you didn't,

we thought you got it right. You know what I mean? But I think there's a piece of the, I do part two that I, that I love and where, you know, as sad as, when I asked you the question about, you know, is it hard for you? Because I believe that,

As much as divorce makes me so sad, Cheryl, I've seen from watching you on the outside of things, you have, there's a different aura about you now. You're happier, you're lighter. You've like, I see it from just watching your stories. And I love that people have their next chapters and that they get to fall in love again and find love that they deserve and

And that suits them and that, you know, respects them. And so that is like so beautiful. And you've come into your own and like, it's just, it's really beautiful to witness someone falling in love with themselves for then that person to fall in love with them and respect them the way that they deserve. So, you know, I appreciate that.

Kate, you coming on and talking to us. And, you know, I just, I look forward to all the people that have their part too. Cheryl, yours is coming up soon, girl. It's coming. It's coming. I feel the glow up. I do. I just, I see it. And I love the lightness in you. You know, you've entered the light.

Definitely different from our last conversation. Yeah. Kate, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you both. Are you divorced? Navigating what your I do part two could look like. I need some advice. Call us or email us, follow us on socials. All the information will be in the show notes. Make sure to rate and review the podcast. I do part two and I heart radio podcast. We're falling in love is the main objective. Love you, Cheryl. Love you. Who do you know on an Zempik or semi-glutide right now?

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