IFH 779: Breaking the Mold: Lily Yasuda and Michael Wolfe’s Journey to Crafting the Anti-Rom-Com
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You are listening to the IFH Podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork.com. Welcome to the Indie Film Hustle Podcast, episode number 779. Start writing, no matter what. The water does not flow until the faucet is turned on. Louis L'Amour.

Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood, it's the Indie Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of the film biz. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Hustle Podcast. I am your humble host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise of the Filmtrepreneur, how to turn your independent film into a profitable business.

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Enjoy today's episode with guest host, Dave Bullis. Under this week's episode, I have two people who decided to self-produce their own movie because they saw that as the only alternative. They wanted to go out there and make something. They wanted to go out there and actually see something be made and not just talk about it, not just write about it. You know, you actually want to see things get made. My first guest, because there's two of them, my first guest is a writer, actor, and filmmaker from Boise, Idaho. She graduated summa cum laude from Chapman University.

and will be making her on-screen debut in the movie Like Love. My other guest is a writer, producer, director who has made a slew of short films and documentaries...

He graduated with a BFA in film production from Chapman University. He's currently interning, I believe, at Scott Rudin Productions, and he's actually a Fulbright semifinalist, which is actually pretty cool. So we're going to talk all about going to production companies. We're going to talk about Film School Hangover. We're going to talk about self-production and their new project, which is on Seed&Spark right now called Like Love with

With guests, Lily Yasuda and Michael Wolff. No, only good things. Marty's super great. He's actually more of Michael's friend than mine. You had him as a professor, yeah? No, he, Marty, so Marty was the production coordinator at Chapman University where Lily and I both went to school and met for the project. And he has a lot of experience with crowdfunding, which is something we're doing for the movie we're making. And, uh,

I had gotten to know him through the school and we were putting together a team of advisors for the project. And since he has experience with crowdfunding,

He seemed like a logical bet. And one of the things we were talking to was, Marty, who do you know that we can tell more people about this kind of thing that we're doing? And he was more than happy to help because Marty's just the nicest guy on the planet. But he did talk a lot of smack on you. He was like, whatever you do, don't talk to Dave because he's terrible. So we went to you immediately. And here we are. So we hope we don't get in trouble with Marty. But yeah.

Exactly. You have to outsmart him. You do the exact opposite of what he suggests. Exactly. That is exactly what we learned in film school. And here we are making a movie. So I don't know what could go wrong, but so far so good.

Yeah. I, I know Marty for, for years and Marty is a really great guy. And, uh, I'm actually happy that, you know, uh, you, you were able to be taught by somebody who not just talks the talk, but also walks the walk because Marty's actually made films. He's actually crowdfunded things before. Um, it,

for listeners of the podcast, they kind of know my history of, you know, I didn't go to film school, but I did teach film school stuff. And what happens is I have a kind of a love-hate relationship with that because oftentimes these colleges hire professors who don't know what they're doing. That's the black mark of a lot of colleges. That's a dirty little secret they don't want you to know about. But anyways, I'm sorry, Mike, what were you about to say?

Oh, no, that's, that's absolutely, that's absolutely true. And just like, it's a, I think, I think it's partially because film is just so it's still very new to the world, you know, like a lot of like, really only the private colleges have caught on to it. And even then, like a lot of the people they get to teach it are like, you know, um,

They're people who have tried and decided like, I can't do this full time. So I just want to like, you know, help other people. And it's easier for them because they're probably they're not as hot in the industry anymore. But it's just such a new concept. It's very, it's very touch and go where you like, you really have to do your research and the Hollywood reporter, which is like the go to for a lot of people. Like that's how we found Chapman. Like, yeah, totally. That, uh,

that's just like, you know, staffed by people who all come from USC and the bigger schools. And so they're just going to promote their own. And it's like,

And I think coming from a, you know, Chapman is certainly an up and coming, certainly a recognized school, but, you know, a little bit, a little bit newer on the sort of film school scale. You know, I think it's been great for us to, you know, obviously Michael and I met through school. And so that in and of itself, I think the fact that we're making this movie proves that film school does provide a degree of networking that can be really helpful. But we're also just trying to move forward with, you know, having a net of advisors, people like Marty, but we also have, you know, some other people on our list. You know, Dave Klein is a friend of my dad's who's a

A DP on Homeland and Trueblood has worked with Kevin Smith, you know, and Heather Ray. They shot clerks together. Yeah. Yeah. Dave and Kevin shot clerks when they were like, like 21 or 22, like our age. You know, but having some people outside of the faculty sphere that can also provide some support and some guidance is really important. So it's definitely about cultivating that network.

So one of the questions I was about to ask too was, where did you guys meet? And you just mentioned you met in film school. So I wanted to ask that because I thought maybe you guys, you two were friends before film school and you decided to go there at Chapman together. So let me ask you this. When you both decided to go to Chapman,

When did you actually meet each other? And then, you know, how did you start working together like you are now? Do you want to do it? Yeah. Well, so we it turns out we lived on the

It's the same floor freshman year. But we didn't find that out until like a year later because we didn't really talk to each other. We met in a creative... I think I like... I knew that you existed, but I don't think I'd ever actually spoken to you. Yeah, I think that's what it was. But we met in this creative writing class outside of the field program because...

You just like, you have to take electives and you wanna like do something that's- - Fill in those general education. - It's something that's fun and sustains you. Willie and I both just ended up like, we had to write like a memoir piece

And Willie and I both ended up tackling topics about like our like sexual history. Like I've told the story of like my first blowjob. They were. Yeah, they were like very unfortunate. They were. They're very unfortunate, very humorous, like material. And we just we just bonded.

Yeah, we like we had to read them out loud. And it was like super uncomfortable. It was like, Oh, who wants to go first? And Michael went first. And Michael started was like, so ethically, like, we'll say vulnerable in like an artsy way. We'll go with embarrassing and like a more literal way that I was like, Okay, then I have to share. And we like talked after class. Yeah, and like had mutual friends. And then he sent me an email, like, I don't know, a few weeks later, pretty much totally out of the blue and was like, I want to, I want to produce a feature when I graduate, I want you to write me something.

And I was like, cool, what do you want it to be? And he was like, it can be whatever you want. And I was like, that's really nice, but that's not what you mean. Like, what's the movie that you want to make? And he, you had a ton of ideas. You sent me like a doc. There were like eight or 10 things on that list. But one of them was a story about a girl that he was friends with in high school who he was really close with. And he was super into her and she was not super into him. And sort of,

I guess the fallout of that and like sort of the weird price you pay for one sided reciprocation, but then it became this conversation about like the friend zone, um, you know, and sort of what relationships look like now. Um, and that seemed like an interesting place for us to start. Um, so it was a pretty loose pitch when I started it. And this script has been through a lot in the last few years. Um,

So yeah, it's definitely evolved. But it was, yeah, it was Michael's pitch. And I think that coming together, I think not as friends, but like where it was more about like being collaborators. Yeah. Well, and it was important to me because I am more of a director than a writer. Like I like writing and I like to talk about writing, but the actual writing is so difficult. And what's great about Lily is she just,

She's really prolific. She's always writing something and she has to finish it. Usually you just start stuff and you don't finish it. That's me in a nutshell. I approached Lily because she was the person who I knew could finish it. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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And that's kind of what you want when you ask someone to write you a movie. You want to make sure you have at least all of the movie. So that's what that's what we're trying to do as we move forward. So when you mentioned the person who would never reciprocate, is that one of those typical people you kind of meet not only in film school, but in all types of colleges and the workplace where they're always there when they when they need something? And then whenever you need something from them there, you know, you can never find them.

I think that's probably true. I don't think that's unique to film school. But I think the story that Michael brought to the table, you know, is less about, I don't know, feeling jilted or like, like being taken advantage of by someone who doesn't reciprocate your feelings. But just the idea that, you know, romantic comedies have spun this idea that like, oh, well, if you're a boy and a girl who like each other's company, you're destined to be in love.

And, uh, I don't know if you've ever existed in the world, you've probably found that that's not true. And I think just sort of mining the story within that about, um, yeah, sort of the realities of, of attraction and intimacy and what that means and that you can love someone and not be destined to be their partner, um, was sort of the underlying ideology. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I see exactly what you mean. I just, you know, I've, again, when I, when I used to work at different, um, universities and teach film stuff, there was always, you know, there's always a little friction sometimes. And usually that's like the type of person, you know what I mean? It was always like, you know, needed, very needy. And then when they, when you need something, they're just never there. It just as a side question, have you ever met like, um,

I guess the stereotype, which is basically what I like to call the art school reject. And what I mean by that is they're the person who is just – everything they want to make is like avant-garde. You know what I mean? And I dare I say they almost wear – they want to wear a beret. Oh, yeah. Maybe literally, honestly. Not even the metaphorical beret. Like, yeah.

And they're lovely people, but they have no idea. When it comes time and you help them out on their project, they have no idea how to communicate what it is they want. They just kind of just bark at things at you, and you're just...

You're just kind of scrambling. And usually, especially in film school and in the industry, and when you're starting out like this, you want to trade as many favors as you can. That's my biggest thing. Totally. That's the kind of person where like... They cannot trade. They can't trade. They can't do anything. They've never even been on a set before. Yeah. They weren't even like... They don't know how to be a boomer. And why it's important to be good at boomer and motivate a person who's going to boomer for you someday. Totally. Totally.

Yeah, we know people. I usually have a saying. If you were in a class, you know, and you're in film school and you can't find that person, chances are you might actually be that person. Definitely. If you're like, I don't know anyone like that. Like, oh, other people, other people know that person. And I'm sure they could point you in the right direction. Yeah.

When I was working at different places, there was a student project that this person made and they were kind of in that sense. They were in that regard. And

they would, they would constantly quote, you know, um, you know, they were, they talk about Kurosawa films and this and that. Oh yes. And, um, now I'm a huge movie nerd. So obviously I'll talk about that too, but, but it's just, they kind of, you know how, I mean, they, they, they shoot one thing and it's like, Oh, this is exactly what Kurosawa would do it. Oh my God. So anyways, their, their, their project they handed in, uh, was so badly done. Um, and

like I could do a whole podcast about what had happened but essentially um

aspect ratios didn't match from scene to scene. And at first I was like, is this an artistic choice of why you're going from all these different aspect ratios? Maybe this is just something that I'm not aware of. And no, it wasn't an artistic choice. There was a lot of that. There was a lot of sound issues. You're speaking of boom mic operator. And there was something else. I want to say

there was something wrong with the coloring and I can't remember what it was but I think the color correction on the scene was so blown out it was just like everything it was like a hodgepodge of everything not to do with film school but if I said to you like hey come up with every stereotype of film school that's what this was awesome awesome yeah well and I

think so much of that is you know particularly as young as young filmmakers as student filmmakers um you know there's a desire to to do something really big everybody wants to be chris nolan or everybody wants to be tarantino right if people wanted to write or edgar oh god and with all due respect to edgar wright but um you know i think there's a desire to tell really big stories um

And I know that I get off the hook a little bit easier because I operate more on the writing side than the production side. But I like to tell really small stories, and that's good news for me because small stories are really producible. And that's very much how we approach this movie, like Love, that we wanted to tell a small story, both that would not kill our audience.

our uh our pocketbook when it came time to pay for it but that that we could really focus on on telling the story well and not getting too hung up on lens flares and car chases and all that oh yeah

And we've all been there, too, where we're you know, we're going to make some movie that we absolutely possibly can't make. Like, you know, a car chase movie or a time travel movie, stuff like that. And that's why, you know, it's just when people do that, it's always like Godspeed. But, you know, you're probably going to end up hating every single second when you're like, oh, I'm making a time travel movie where we're going back to 1800. And, oh, there's cars in the background. There's people walking. You know what I mean?

You're like, oh, it can't be that hard. We'll just need a few cars. And you're like, those cars are really expensive, though. Like, a few cars can be most of your budget. Well, that was me. That was me with my thesis film. It was a superhero movie, which I now, like, because I had done the smaller stuff, and I was like, I want to challenge myself, so I'll make a superhero movie with, like, six locations. Like, it had VFX sequences. And how big was your crew? Our crew, we had a crew of, like, 80 people, and it was huge.

As a student filmmaker, you're leading a crew of like 80 people and you're just like, that's a lot to manage. And you're also like, there's so many elements that you're trying to get into place. You can't even make the move. You're spending so much time trying to make the movie happen that you don't even- You can't make it good. You don't even, yeah, you don't make the movie. You just kind of like-

You just kind of throw a bunch of stuff on screen and call it a movie. Yeah. At that point. And also for the record, I would just like to say there will not even be 80 people on our set in total, including extras on this feature. So we're really scaling back on this project. That was a crash course in like what not to do. But I learned, you do learn how to stretch your budget really quickly when you're trying to assemble all those things. Goldfish for everybody.

People love goldfish. And fruit snacks. That's true. Pro tip, aspiring filmmakers, everybody loves fruit snacks. And it has to be Welch's. It can't be the off brand. Yes, exactly. That's our advice. That's like the Lloyd Kaufman brain of doing things, you know? The goldfish crackers and day old bagels. That's the old Lloyd Kaufman special.

That's the two major food groups, honestly. Like you get something crispy and something with cream cheese on it and like you'll be fine. For my thesis, we had a night shoot and my producer, she's a wonderful, wonderful person. She's from China and she got bagels and instead of cream cheese, she got sour cream. Oh, no.

Oh, no. And it's like three in the morning and you just want to go to sleep, you know, and you're just trying to work. And so you're not reading the labels. You just see what looks to be cream cheese and you're putting sour cream on bagels. Did you just like dip them? No, they spread them because they thought it was cream cheese. Yikes. Yeah. Talk about a way to wake up though. Other than coffee. That's rough. Yeah.

Yeah, that's – that is pretty rough. I don't know. Was she able to sort of save herself, meaning that like – did she realize the mistake she made and she tried to make amends? She did. She did. She went out and she got more crafty for everybody. Oh, good, good. You got to feed your crew well. Yeah. Yeah.

That's important. Yeah, absolutely. You know, and before we get to start talking more about like love, I just wanted to ask, you know, when, when, when both of you were shooting, you know, your student projects throughout, you know, your, your four years, did you ever, when you were out, out shooting, did you ever get, you know, maybe somebody coming to ask you questions about, Hey, what are you, what are you doing? And you kind of were able to pull the whole, Hey, I'm a student filmmaker card. Yeah.

Wait, I'm sorry. Repeat the question real quick. Did you ever like when you were out filming, did you ever get to pull the whole, hey, I'm a student filmmaker card? Like if you're ever out somewhere shooting and somebody asks you like, hey, what are you doing here? Like, hey, we're the students. We're making a movie. It's hard in California, especially in Orange, where Chapman is located, because everybody does like everyone is on set all the time. Like the residents of Orange hate student filmmakers. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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which like is probably not unwarranted. You know, but for this, for this feature, we're shooting in Boise, Idaho. And even like today, like we did a couple of location scouts and like, people are just so stoked. Like, what are you doing? And you're like, we're making a movie. And they're like, wow, could we be in the movie? And you're like, yeah, potentially like people just think it's so fun. So I think there's a higher sort of like novelty there.

Yeah. Well, in Orange, it was like you downplay the student aspect and you just go for the we're young and hungry and trying to enter kind of thing. You do not say you go to Chapman. The residents of Orange do not want to help you as a Chapman student. Yeah.

See, and those are the pro tips that, see, that are like, you know, you have to be in the know to get them. Oops, sorry, I just hit the microphone. Sorry. See, I was so excited about that pro tip, I hit the microphone with my hand. But no, but see, those are the types of things that you kind of have

Yeah.

Well, that's why we're in Boise in particular. It's because they don't... We don't need filming permits. Yeah, there's not an emphasis on... I think in LA, what is it? I don't know if this is a rumor or not, but I've heard horror stories where people will...

they'll film guerrilla style and then in LA they find out you didn't have a permit afterwards it can lead to huge fines and like you can't use your footage like without being sued by the city what? yeah it's like a big it's a big deal just because they have so much production fatigue sure whereas in you come out to this small place like

Like Boise, like a significantly smaller where there's no where there's hardly any film infrastructure. I think I think they don't even have like film incentives. Right. So maybe this is really just a elaborate plug for people to come shoot films in Idaho. Like surprise, you got us. Like if you're looking to shoot an independent film, maybe you should come do it in in Boise. It's it's hot and dry and people are nice and we like to deep fry steak. Like it's a pretty good time. Truth be told.

I'm sold. I'm sold. Yeah. Awesome. Boom. We have one convert. That is our mission. I'm here in Philadelphia, and there was a point where production fatigue started to kind of sort of set in, but then all the productions left to Pittsburgh, and now the only thing we have left, there's Creed 2 is here right now, and that's it. That's not so bad. Take it. Take Creed 2.

Yeah, well, it's just funny because there used to be so many other things going on here. And now there's like nothing. It is just like it has become just, you know, it's, you know, the people were wondering where all the other productions went. So apparently they've all gone to either Pittsburgh or and now as I find out, Boise, Idaho. Yeah. Surprise. We're stealing them from you.

You know, and I wonder, too, if there is, you know, if there even is there a film commission in Idaho? Like, is there one? There is. OK, cool. Tell you almost nothing else about it except that it exists. But we do have one. I think they're waiting for their big their big opportunity. La La Land 2. That could be us.

Well, you see, if I was, I mean, and Mike, you know, you being a producer on the project, I imagine my producer hat starts to go off here, and I imagine there's a lot of

Empty buildings in Idaho, not just around the Boise area. And what I mean by empty buildings is, you know, farms, old warehouses, old, you know, kind of like dairy silos, all those types of places. And I kind of wonder, you know, if they could be utilized more. You know what I mean? Sure. Maybe not in our movie, but if you need a good, like, serial killer film, maybe this is the...

good ways to do it. They, they absolutely could. Um, and the, the, the nice thing too is like when you don't have a town that has all the production fatigue is people will just open up and they're happy to have it. The, the trick though, and this is a discussion, like, uh, when I visited New York, I went, they, the city has a, like the, the mayor's office for film and television and they're very big on educating to so many shows shoot in New York. Uh,

they're very big on educating the city about why film is great and TV's great and how it supports everything. Um, and one of the things that they do is they train a lot of the, they, they have a program that trains a lot of people who want to get involved in the industry to create the infrastructure there. Really? Yeah. And that's the challenge with Boise is there's, there are, there is a small team of people who are willing to do it, but there's just a small team. Sure. Um,

You know, and so we are, we're bringing out some crew from California and we do have the community support and a lot of people who are very interested in the arts stepping us out. But the people with the skill sets are, there's a, there's only so many, there's, there's so many of them and there's like, they're either on other projects and you're doing other things. So you can find these places to shoot, um,

But the project that you're making still is going to cost some money because you have to bring in the support network for it. For sure. Yeah, that is true. But I still think, again, that filming in the small towns and stuff like that, it's always an advantage if you can use it as an advantage. And what I mean by that is...

you know, we're towns where they're not actually, you know, fatigued from filming, where they're not fatigued for people asking for favors or, you know, whatever else, you know, that's why if you do live in middle America or even in a small town in California, whatever, you can actually, because again, you know, people, you know, and you, and then people more willing to help you because if you live in a small town, most of the time you all know each other, you know what I mean? Yeah. Other than living in like New York or LA where,

As soon as you walk in, you go, hey, hey, you know, hey, Lily, I want to film in your restaurant. You're like, just get out of here. No, exactly. Exactly.

Exactly. And that was ultimately... I mean, I'm from Boise, so that's sort of the short reason why we're here for production. But yeah, just the generosity and just people are so friggin' nice. And when you're poor and you're young and this is both of our first feature and you're starting out, I mean, you need that infrastructure of support and not even... I mean, yes, professional support of talented people that are willing to work for not a lot of money on set, but just...

people that are willing to bring you food, people that are willing to house your crew, people that are willing to, you know, we were freaking out. We didn't have our, uh, we're prepping our crowdfunding campaign on seed and spark. And, um, we realized like two and a half weeks out that we didn't have graphics. Like we needed a thumbnail for the video. We need reward stuff. And we were like, Oh no, we're like, okay, well we need to hire someone basically today who can start work tomorrow. We can't pay them. Um, and we need them to deliver like a bunch of stuff in like 10 days, um,

And we were like, who could we talk to? And we were like, literally no one. Like students aren't going to do that. Like professionals aren't going to work for free. We were freaking out.

I talked to my dad, Dave Yasuda, who works like in marketing. He works in e-commerce at a company that sells meat. But like he's done some stuff and like sort of the commercial and film space and has directed and produced and done some stuff like that, but has done a lot of work in the advertising sphere and reached out to his friend, Paul Carew, who runs a local ad agency and was like, hey, Paul, will you design for my daughter for free? And Paul was like, sure. And so we got like a whole team of people to like do our graphics for literally no pay, you know, and you're not going to get that in L.A.

or I'm not maybe if you're maybe if you had better better friends but you're really well connected you're really if you're not me basically maybe LA would play out for you so better friends yeah I like that yeah Michael get out yeah Mike come on no it's true she's literally like

It's she's bringing all the resources to the project and I'm just kind of coming in and going, yeah, let's do this. Let's not do this. He provides moral support. Moral support.

I like that. So let's talk about like love. You know, I'm interested because, you know, I can just tell you both you're wearing a lot of different hats for this project. So, you know, you know, Lily, you're from Boise. So you're shooting it in Boise, Idaho. You know, Mike, you're coming along for the ride. So, you know, and Lily, you wrote this, correct? That's correct. And then and Michael, you're directing it. I am. Yes. And then now are you both starring in it?

I am. Michael will be making a small appearance as gas station attendant, but I'm playing the lead role. Correct. Okay, cool. So just to talk more about Like Love, you know, Lily, since you wrote it, could you sort of give us the logline or synopsis about the film? Yeah, for sure. So it's heavily inspired by When Harry Met Sally, as I suppose most romantic comedies are. But we wanted to take that sort of a step

further and very directly honor, you know, the interviews of When Harry Met Sally. For those of you who've seen the film, you know, and for those of you who don't, I'll fill you in real fast. You know, so When Harry Met Sally is like the classic rom-com about two friends who eventually fall in love over the course of like 13 years or whatever of being together. But the backbone of the story is a series of interviews of like old sort of crotchety couples telling the stories of how they met and how they fell in love.

And I love When Harry Met Sally, but I think the interviews... The tension of it is that like... Yes. The tension of it is there are these two people who are friends and fall in love, but it's like men and women can't be friends. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor.

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Because the sex and the attraction always gets in the way. Right. And at the end of the movie, it turns out that's true because, of course, they get together.

So the interviews being all these various elderly couples telling the stories of how they met and how they fell in love. And I think the interviews have aged really badly. Like if you watch them now, they're all of these like sort of sad stories of where it's like the guy is like, well, I saw this woman and she was so fine that I just had to have her. And we've been married for 100 years. And you're like, I don't know if that's like cute, you know?

And obviously the interviews are intended to be funny, but they just, I don't know, like if you wanted to go there, there may be a little bit misogynistic, but they just reflect, I think, this very outdated sort of idea of like love at first sight, like that being together forever is more important than like being happy or supporting each other in a meaningful way. So that was sort of the impetus for the story. So Like Love is, as we've been pitching it, an anti-romantic comedy about two friends who try to fall in love and can't.

And what that then means for their friendships, for them individually, and trying to overcome the can men and women actually just be friends and have that be a meaningful prize at the end. And it particularly plays on the gender dynamic because it's from the woman's perspective and how she's not, he's into her, but she's not into him. And what...

Like how she feels pressured because she thought she has this really awesome friend and he wants something more. And she doesn't want to jeopardize the friendship and it's easier for her to try and be in love with him than for her to tell him that she's just not interested. I see. So the old friend zone, a place I'm familiar with very, very often. No, I'm just kidding. No, but Tom. You're like, I've been there. I feel that. I think we all have. Story of my life. No, but...

But, you know, so when you were talking about the interviews, Lily, let me what kind of like I say, I always think there's there's generation gaps because I think each generation, you know, they have a different idea of relationships and love and all these sort of things. And, you know, I fall into the millennial category. Yeah.

I guess, are you millennial or generation Y? I don't know. How far are you on the cutoff? We're on the cut. So we're both, like, you're 21. I'm 22. Like, we're both on that, like, cutoff where, like, I think the New York Times even had, like, a whole thing about it where they're, like, they ask people our age specifically. Are we? Millennials. Yeah, because the cutoff is supposed to be, like, some people say the cutoff is 2000, 2001. And some people are like, no, it's 1990. Yeah.

And that's a significant difference. But we're like right in the middle. Like, it's weird because like the Parkland teens that are so big for their activism are being called Gen Z or whatever. Oh, Gen Z, yeah. Yeah, and we're like not that much older than them. Like they would have been freshmen when we were seniors in high school. So unclear. Well, I feel like millennials sound snappier, so we'll go with that. We're in that weird middle gap of like, I remember what it was like to play outside. Yeah.

And I did that. Just barely. And I remember life before cell phones. Yeah. But definitely we've grown up with them. For sure. The expectation that smartphones and all that stuff. Sure. And online dating and all of that stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

So, I mean, I think I'm what, probably like eight, nine years older than both of you because I'm 31. So it's kind of – or I mean, well, yeah. So basically I'm like about 10 years older than you guys. So I'm kind of like the – because I read somewhere that the –

Millennial cutoff was like 1980 to 1992, I think it was. So I fall into that category there. And I always sort of go back and I see how all these different generation gaps in this country kind of view different things.

because each generation kind of is a lot different than the one before it. I mean, you have the ones from the 1940, which are called the Greatest Generation, and then you have the They Gave Birth to the Baby Boomers, and they were totally different in a lot of different ways. And then you have the Generation Xers, which are even more different than their parents. I mean, it's just, you know, I don't think there's any country in the world that has such generation gaps as we do here in America. Definitely. Yeah.

And I think, you know, sort of the evolution of the romantic comedy or just maybe how people see romance in general is a good time capsule of that that gap. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. And that's why I think with those interviews, I think that's a good time capsule to have, because I think, you know, you're looking and saying, look, you know, this is you know, they they they dated. I mean, look, look at how finding jobs are so different now. You know, back, you know, you hear a lot of baby boomers talk and they go, oh, you know, I asked old folks.

Fred to have the steel mill for a job and I got a job and we're like, what the hell are you talking about? Like, you know, there's no, there's no steel mills. And if you go to a place right now and say, Hey, can I talk to somebody? They're going to say, no, you have to make an appointment. You have to apply, blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean? So it's like, it's all, it's all so different now. But, but that's why, you know, again, we're just going back to the generational gaps, but,

So you're on Seed&Spark right now, or you're going to be on Seed&Spark, correct? You're going to be launching? We are live as of two days ago. So this is day three of our campaign. So we have 27 days to go. So what are some of the things that you've encountered where you're planning this crowdfunding campaign? Have you encountered a lot of unexpected things that have sort of come up?

I guess just that it's really hard. Like, I would say nobody tells you, but everybody tells you, they're like, oh, it'll be really hard. And you're like, oh, but it won't be that hard. And then you start doing it and you're like, this is in fact very hard. Yes. It's a full-time job in and of itself. But you don't get paid. You hope that other people pay the campaign. So, no, but we have a great team and like we have a social media advisor and our producers have

been involved as well. So, you know, again, it's pretty early on and we've made good progress given where we're at. But it's a long, a long and windy road ahead of us, I'd imagine. So what is your goal right now? We're trying to raise a little over $31,000. And then

The budget's a little bit higher than that. We also received a generous grant from the Alexa Rose Foundation in Idaho, who supports Idaho-based artists like Lily. But the $31K is roughly the goal. On the platform. Yeah, on the platform.

So before the launch of this, I'm sure Marty was probably working with you on this. So if there's any advice you would give to anybody out there, what would it be that maybe you wish you would have done differently or maybe just is it more time? Did you wish you had something else? Is there anything that you wish you knew that you knew now before you launched? Well, I mean, it's kind of in a way like –

It's similar to the process of preparing for just to make a movie in general. Like, you know, you really do have to plan. Like, the crowdfunding campaign has its own separate reproduction. You have the pitch video that needs to really reflect the movie because people are watching that and they're expecting when they see that that they're going to see what they're going to see when you make the actual movie. And visual consistency and fonts and colors and graphics and all of that. You know, I feel like we...

I think we did everything we could, which is not to say we couldn't have done more. You know, again, we're only three days in and I'm already like, oh, my God, we haven't done enough. But I think it's just giving yourself time to fully prepare and and just really going through all the specifics with your team. And ultimately, I guess it's about cultivating a cohesive message of like, so what is the project? Why does it matter? And who would watch it?

And Michael and I, we had sort of a turbulent road with producers. And so like we've gone through a lot of stages of of pitching the project of selling the project of, you know, who are we and why should we tell this and why this story and why now? And I think once you've done that work, I mean, yes, you need to think about what you're going to post on Twitter and whatever. But it's more about that branding of what you're selling is what I would advise people to to think about.

Yeah. And making sure that your, your team in particular is very consistent in that message. And, um, cause you, you have your friends and your family who are going to donate and that makes up a large part of it. But then if your movie is geared towards a very specific audience like ours, which is, well, um, you know, young millennials, um,

then how do you market a movie to your friends and family so that they donate, but then also make that message so that it plays to the people that would watch a movie. Yeah.

Like your grandma would probably donate to your movie, but your grandma is probably not your ideal audience member. You know, I mean, I love my grandma. Don't get me wrong. But and then your ideal audience member isn't exactly someone who's rich and has a lot of money. So how do you find them, get them? And so it's been a constant back and forth of like, where are we going online to find these people? Yeah. So maybe the point is you should just make a movie that only really rich people would want to watch.

I think that's your ideal film. And then the audience just takes care of itself. You know, I think that is excellent advice. I think just having rich friends and just saying, hey, this movie will be for you. You know what? And the weird part is, Lily, you know, because I get to talk to so many. One of the benefits of doing this podcast is I get to talk to so many different people. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor. And now back to the show.

not only in America but also you know all over the world and sometimes it actually happens where somebody has a very rich friend who donates a lot of money to projects and I'm just like you son of a bitch how the hell you know how can I get that because you know I'm just some schmuck here in Philly but you know come on yeah well and I think

I think it's also about remembering, and I say this, I'm really bad at implementing it, but in theory, remembering that as an independent filmmaker, especially if you're like Michael or I, where you're willing to wear a lot of hats. I mean, I can barely see for all of the hats that I'm wearing. But where you're wearing a lot of hats, you're doing a lot of work that you need to love doing

the work because 99% of the work is not being on set. It's not being on set and it's not shooting the movie and it's not like getting a beautiful shot. Right. It's like, you're gonna, you're like, Hey, today's the day we're going to hire a production designer. And that needs to be really interesting to you. Or like today's the day we're going to come up with a mock poster. And that needs to be really exciting to you because like, that is your, that is most of your job. It's not people. And if people see that, yeah, you love doing the work.

Then they're more interested in contributing. Like you've got to be, you've got to be really open and like vulnerable about everything that it is you're doing, which is really hard when you're a filmmaker who's telling a story. Like usually, you know, you, you're a little cagey cause you're putting, you're putting art out into the world and you know, there's a good chance a lot of people are, everyone has an opinion about it. That's for sure. Sure. And, but if you're willing to just like what I've been discovering is you've just got to be willing to be very,

open about it definitely so like we shared like our campaigns like our films tone reel we're sharing like the actual process of like the nitty gritty of how we're creating this and it's about you get yeah you get to watch Michael and I eat like 19 frozen waffles

which is a pretty good time which in case you were wondering like don't eat frozen waffles when they're warm from the sun like I wouldn't advise that it's a terrible idea so that's the kind of stuff that you just can't learn in film school I don't want to worry about

You don't want to worry about the waffles? Yeah, it's just some of the things you learn in film school and some of the things you can't. And that's one of them. Don't eat the waffles that are that are that are. Don't eat the waffles. Yeah. I make that a T-shirt. You can have that.

Oh, thank you, Lily. Thank you. I know we're running out of time. I know you both have to run. So I'm going to link to everything in the show notes, everybody. But just in closing, Lily and Michael, is there anything you want to say to sort of put a period at the end of this whole conversation?

Um, yeah, well, thank you so much for, you know, having us on the show. It's great to just know the talk and talk about the project so other people can hear about it. And, you know, more than happy to, if anybody who's listening, I know a lot of your listeners are very interested in working professionals. And, you know, we're happy to connect in whatever way we can with your project, but also to help them because the reason we, the reason I'm doing this and the reason

I'm in film in general because I love working with other people and tying that into like love. I'm very excited about the crew. We've got a crappy young crew, micro budget of 10 people. So micro budget. So micro, you know, we're all wearing multiple hats and I'm so excited for you, for everyone to get to see the work that we're doing. And I think what's, what's true about this movie and it becomes a cliche, but

you know, we're here because we value working with each other and we value the story that we feel like we haven't seen before. Yeah. And Like Loves has been very collaborative, very, very collaborative. And I think, you know, in the spirit of collaboration, of working with other people, I think my my takeaway for listeners or I don't know, just other people out in the art industry, like I was telling Michael, nothing makes you want to

be generous to other people who make art, like desperately asking people to give you money. Like, again, we're only on day three of our campaign. And, you know, I think it's easy as, you know, whether you are a working artist or you're just someone who likes art, you know, that you see other people making stuff and they're like, hey, like we need extra. Hey, we need $5 or hey, and it's kind of like, oh, that's nice. But it's easy for that to sort of slip into the background of your life and not that you owe it to everyone you meet to give them $5 or spend your whole day to become an extra. But, you know, just little things of,

There are people in your life or your community who are writing a play and need a place to stage it. Or if there are people like, you know, I think making art intrinsically requires the help and support of others. And I think if you're in a place to support people, you have an obligation to do so. And I know that's something I was not very good at before starting this movie. And even on a very small level, just like,

Like I was at a play the other night at Homegrown Theater in Boise and, you know, they were like really looking for people to help be sponsors. Right. For five bucks a month, you can become a sponsor. And I was like, you know what? I want to be a sponsor because like I've spent literally my whole day sending emails trying to get people to give me five dollars. And it is so hard. And I think like, you know, at that moment, I was like, the least I can do is like, you know, help them keep the power on. So and that's that's what's cool about supporting like love is you.

Like Love is being supported by a community like Boise. Yeah. So it's like, so like when people come and support us, they're supporting Boise in general. Sure. And, you know, we're supporting them in tandem. It's a win-win in that way. It's really great to be a part of a project like that. Yeah. So I think...

I think to anyone out there, if you can help us out, that would be awesome. But really, truly, if there's any way we can help anyone out there, if you're looking for advice or help or maybe $5, I have exactly $5 to give. So hit me up. You can find us on our site. We could give it to ourselves. We could give it to ourselves. No, no. This $5 is only reserved for someone who's not you, Michael.

So yeah, but Dave, thank you so much for having us. We really appreciate it. Yeah, if you have any questions or comments for us, feel free to let us know. And you can find the links to our social and everything in our Seat Spark at likelovemovie.com. And that should all be in the show notes. And that will be. Thank you so much for having me.

Oh, no, no, no problem. No problem, Mike and Lily. And yes, everyone, everything will be at the show notes because I know a lot – you know, everybody – or I'm sorry, everyone ingests podcasts. They're really – sometimes they're riding in their car or they're walking to work or they're at the gym. So they can always check those show notes. That's one thing – that's one tip I've always learned about podcasts is that you should –

If you are going to give, you know, like links and stuff like that, it's always you have to you have to do the one to accommodation of putting them in the show notes because people people, you know, people are busy. They're not like, oh, my God, I got it. You know what I mean? It's out of sight, out of mind. So I don't think I've ever listened to a podcast not in my car. So that is that is sage advice. As I'm going to test you, I do like to text while I am driving the car, but that is not safe. I would not recommend that. So please, please haul your motor vehicle before checking the show notes.

Yeah, don't click and drive, you know. So just put the phone down. Lily, Michael, I want to say thank you so much for coming on. Thank you so much, Dave. Thank you. Thank you. And I have to give Marty another thank you for introducing us because it's a great conversation. Big shout out to Marty.

I want to thank Dave so much for doing such a great job on this episode. If you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, head over to the show notes at indiefilmhustle.com forward slash 779. And if you haven't already, please head over to filmmakingpodcast.com, subscribe and leave a good review for the show. It really helps us out a lot, guys. Thank you again so much for listening, guys. As always, keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive. Stay safe out there, and I'll talk to you soon.

Thanks for listening to the Indie Film Hustle podcast at IndieFilmHustle.com. That's I-N-D-I-E-F-I-L-M-H-U-S-T-L-E.com.