Have Everton Kicked Off Liverpool's Crumble?
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What it says it will. And it will. Over the course of the next half an hour, Chris Sutton and I will talk about Leicester versus Arsenal and Man City versus Newcastle and Spurs against Man United and a few other bits as well. But first of all, I have to look back just for a minute to the events of Wednesday night at Goodison Park. I've seen a lot of things, 25 years of

covering football. I haven't seen much like I saw last night. And I will be carrying the memories of Everton's equaliser against Liverpool for quite a while, given that a member of the Goodison Park staff jumped onto my head in celebration when it went in. My neck is a little bit sore this morning. But very quickly, Chris, that is one of the most dramatic... Didn't know you had a neck.

Well, I haven't anymore. That's one of the most dramatic endings to a game of football I've ever seen. I want to ask you one very quick question. Fair goal, the equaliser by James Tokowski or foul on Ibrahimah Kanate in the build-up? Nothing wrong with the goal. So how big is Kanate?

How tall would you say? Yeah, great game by the way. And the rest. Yeah, big guy. And the rest. Yeah. And the rest. Wouldn't you be expecting your centre-half to actually go and head the ball? I mean, do you really think that there was enough in that challenge to a waterfowl? No, I don't. But when I was leaving the ground, driving home, there's so much chat about it, so much conversation about it.

um looks at again when i got home before i went to bed looks at again this morning thursday i genuinely think it's uh for want of a better phrase bumping and barging between two uh between a big center forward and a big center half in the penalty area under a high ball and one of them one of them came out on the wrong side of it i genuinely do think that's what it was generally do think that's what it what it was

but I was interested in your view on it fabulous it wasn't a fabulous game actually it was a pretty poor game in terms of quality but fabulous occasion last game under the lights at Goodison Park last Merseyside Derby at Goodison Park and what a way to finish to all it finished of course and

Looking ahead, Chris, Liverpool go straight from that into Sunday's game against Wolves at Anfield. It feels like

I'm pausing because it's a bit of a cliche, but it does feel a little bit to me like this could be a season-defining week for Liverpool, simply because they go home against Wolves, away against Aston Villa next Wednesday. That's the game that they are playing because that was the game that would have been played on Cowboy Cup final weekend. And then they go straight into an away game at Man City a week on Sunday. Liverpool are either going to come out of all that feeling like they've almost won the league,

or feeling as though Arsenal are breathing down their necks.

What, centre-forward-less Arsenal? Yeah, indeed. Look, I mean, who would you rather be at this moment in time? Who would you rather be, Liverpool or Arsenal? Well, absolutely. So, you know, have they had a blip this season? Not really. Was last night a sore one for them? Yeah, the nature of it, being ahead, going into the last few minutes of the game and then letting that slip. But,

I still think that Liverpool have the strength, the depth and the quality, the points in the bag more importantly. So will it be season-defining? Well, it will if they end up not getting a result in all three. But have Wolves really turned a corner? I'm not so sure that they have. Aston Villa away is a difficult game, but one they can overcome. And Manchester City...

just this season have fallen off a cliff. So I don't think there's anything too much to fear for Liverpool in those games. Maybe Arne Slott should have played, should have kept the rhythm by playing his strongest team against Plymouth, Ian. Well, we've been over that one and you know my view on that. I think Slott made the right selection for the FA Cup game. Oh, well, he would have done had they beaten Everton.

Look, Liverpool didn't play well. That's the key to it. I mean, a 2-1 victory against Everton would have been one of the great robberies of the modern era. Everton were arguably the better team in the second half. But let's not dwell on that. You had them going down once Moyes took over, didn't you? Yeah, my Twitter mentions are still quite lively. I've got to say. Yeah.

What was I going to say? You've lost my train of thought then. Oh, yes. So, look, we know what happened after this. Lots of argy-bargy. Arnie Slott sent off. He's a Liverpool manager. His assistant sent off after the final whistle. This means that Johnny Heitinger, a former Everton player, of course, will be in charge of Liverpool for the game against Wolves. I'm not sure that will impact them too much. But I want to ask you a question, Chris, as a former professional footballer. Liverpool fans leaving Goodison on Wednesday night will have...

will have felt absolutely deflated, devastated,

distressed, depressed, lots of other words beginning with D. And we all know what it feels when your team takes one to the solar plexus like that right at the death. And you think you've got hold of something so precious and then it's torn away from you. Liverpool fans who have gone home after that game and not slept, I can guarantee that. But how do the players deal with that? How does that feel like for a player

How does it work in a player's mind when something like that happens and then you wake up on a Thursday morning and you've got another game three days later? Part of the game, isn't it? I don't know, is it? Yeah, well, of course it is. And, you know, this isn't a Liverpool youth team. There's lots of experience in there. And if we were into...

you know, single, single figure games into the last five games of the season and, and the gap was, was really close. It isn't really close. Liverpool, you know, seven points and then you have a slip up like that, then, then maybe you could understand a little bit of trepidation, but,

If you're starting to panic when there's 14 games to go, then heaven help Liverpool. I don't. I don't. I don't sense that. You know, any team, everybody knows, you know, with tight games like that, especially derby games, Liverpool,

that there's, you know, everything is still all on the table going into the latter stages of a game. And this season has been excellent. I would just focus on the positives of this season. And I'm sure that's what the Liverpool players will be doing. It's probably the best thing that happened to Arsenal this week. Last year, Arsenal took advantage of a break in their schedule to head off to Dubai for a break, came back and took off like a rocket.

and it propelled them pretty much towards the end of the season, kept them toe to toe with Man City in the title race for quite a while. This time they've tried to do the same. They've been in Dubai again. Not quite worked out for them, I'm afraid. They've not been playing, but they've still been picking up injuries. Kai Havertz, German forward, hamstring injury, story revealed on Man Online two days ago by our chief football reporter, Simon Mockbell, will be out for the rest of the season.

That must be some injury, that. Some hamstring injury. That must be horrific.

add that to the, uh, absentees that we already know about. Gabriel Jesus, uh, uh, because Saka, uh, Martinelli is also injured. Also didn't buy a striker in January. As we know, we don't need to go, um, over that again. They are at Leicester this weekend. Um,

I think it's fair to say that the only good thing that's happened to Arsenal in the last couple of weeks is that Liverpool didn't win that game last night. But I want to ask you something, Chris. There's a lot of chat at the moment about injuries, muscle injuries in particular. We look across the Premier League and we see clubs afflicted, such as Arsenal, such as Tottenham, such as Brighton. Long injury lists. And people are talking about the schedule. Are players playing too many games? Is that why they keep... Are they being trained too hard?

Before I ask you about that, I want to take you back to the year that you won the league with Blackburn in 1995. Now at this stage of that season, back in the day, you and your Blackburn colleagues had played 35 games as we sit here this morning on the 13th of February. You had played 35 games. Arsenal, so far this season, have played 38 games.

Doesn't sound to me like a huge difference. You had a core squad back then, Kenny Dalglish's Blackburn squad, of about 15 players who played what you would call a significant number of games. You look at Arsenal, they've got about 18 or 19. So to me, that says no difference. So I want to ask you,

Is it all in our heads, this theory about overplaying and injured players and tiredness? Or is there something that I'm missing? I think when you hear managers continuously talk about fatigue, I think that that's something which can certainly filter through to the players. If the narrative which is being thrown out there is that we're all tired, then, you know...

But it's not just time, it's injuries though, isn't it? Players getting injured. Muscle injuries. Yeah, I mean, that's a difficult one to gauge. I mean, we're not partly to what goes on in the Arsenal training camps. I mean, what I would say about warm weather training...

you know is it an unnecessary flight you know we always talk when teams go away in European competition and say well you know they've had to fly and come back and they're fatigued could Arsenal not have gone to centre parks or something like that Ian I mean probably couldn't afford it I

Five days at Centre Park costs about two grand. That's very good. And there is a slight irony about going over warm weather training where you think they're going over to Dubai to relax. But of course, that's not the case. What I do find...

I shouldn't say funny about this, but all of a sudden Kai Havertz, who has been sort of much maligned at times as an Arsenal player, now he's like Pele, isn't he? You know, he's now held in such high regard as

you know, is, is a world beater. Uh, Kai Havertz, now his hamstring's gone and there's, there's, you know, Arsenal, the title race, uh, is over. He's taken such a kicking at times and now this hamstring injury, you know, I think we both have a view that Havertz, uh,

has actually played pretty well for Arsenal and his numbers this season I think are pretty consistent to last season he's not he's not a you know Thierry Henry or an Ian Wright type goal scorer but you know he's he's done okay but of course the question at Arsenal will be well why didn't Arteta um

bring a striker in January and that late bid for Ollie Watkins told you he wanted one in. I had a grade two hamstring tear once. I was back in the month. But then, you know, I'm a medical miracle in many, many, many, many ways. Yeah, but there is, I mean, there's, you know, finely tuned athletes and fuds.

I wonder if Arsenal fans will be sending letters of thanks to Michael Oliver now. They were all kind of kicking his door down in anger after he sent their Lewis Miles Skelly off. No, that's the wrong, Miles Lewis Skelly off.

a couple of weeks ago, a couple of weeks ago at Molineux. And now he's helped them, you know, he's given Everton 24 added minutes to get the equaliser at Goodison Park. It's funny because before we started the podcast, I didn't see Henry, our Arsenal supporting producer, singing his praises this morning. Funny how it works, hasn't it? Funny how it works. When people don't do things you want, you shout at them. When they do the things that you do want, you just let it go and don't really say anything at all.

Anyway, come on, move on. Can I just say quickly on Michael Oliver? So Michael Oliver not only hates Arsenal, he hates Liverpool. Does he just hate all Premier League teams? Does he hate football? Apart from Newcastle. It's all kicking off as proudly supported by Paddy Power. Right then, it's time for the Bet Your Bottom Quid Challenge. Surely you all know how it works by now. But if not, let my dear friend Chris explain to you all. Friend? Friend?

Anyway, each week Paddy Power tasks us with placing a bet on the week's selected fixture. Dragging rights, can't even speak. Dragging rights, go to the winner. A week of humiliation goes to the loser. That's a bit of a stretch. That was like the life of Brian there. Yep, we haven't done that well so far with these, have we Ian?

That is an understatement. Our tipping fortunes have been going down the gurgle for most of the season, but let's change it. This could be the week I can feel a good one coming on. Where was that, Ian? You just said that. It's called ad-libbing. Right. It's called deviating from Henry's terrible script. Right. Just carry on. Just say, let me introduce you to our favourite. Oh, okay. Let me introduce you to our favourite betting guru, Ian.

Lewis Richards, Lewis how are we? Morning chaps, how you doing? We're well, we're well, we're well. Don't worry we'll get there in the end, we know what we're doing. You know you say you haven't done well this season but I say we didn't do badly last week, I didn't do badly last week. Aston Villa to win by exactly one goal, quite happy with it. Aston Villa to win by what? To win by exactly one goal.

I had them to draw with Son scoring and that could have happened. It almost happened, but it didn't happen. You had Villa leading at half-time. I did, exactly. He did get part of it. If we leave that at Chris's correct score, he did say Villa would win. Anyway, this week we are going for Spurs vs United. Ian, we'll start with you for this one.

Yeah, very simple. I'm going to go with Spurs to win, but with Bruno Fernandes to score a goal for Manchester United. Yeah, it's a tough one. If I asked you two, what would you say that these two teams are playing for this weekend when you look at their league position and what they can get out of the league? What's the motivation this weekend? Momentum. They need to get momentum going. That's what they need. Money. Win bonuses.

Right, so Spurs to win, Fernandes to score. You're looking at 9.42 to 1. Looking at Spurs' recent form, they're two wins in the last five, but when you look at just league form, it's one win in five and four defeats, so it's a bit bleak. Compare it to United's four wins from five, but in the league it's two from five, but...

Who knows in this game? Both teams are so up and down in form, it's unreal. And then Fernandes to score. He's on the five goals this season. Top scorer Diallo is only on one more. It shows how difficult it's fine. They're fine to score some goals. But if anyone's going to pop up with an important goal, I think it would be Fernandes in this kind of game. Chris, what about you? Well, this is going against the grain a little bit.

But I'm going to go for Manchester United to win. Yes, Manchester United to win and Garnaccio to score. What about that one? So that would be Garnaccio to score and United to win would be 3.41 to 1. So just under three and a half. But I mean, Garnaccio, I don't know where you're coming from with that one. Counter-attack, Lewis.

but three goals 51 attempts it's it's tough he's due he's due that's for sure you can't argue with that he is due and then Spurs won 3-0 I think in the reverse fixture earlier on so United are surely going to want some kind of retribution from this

Looking at United away from home, I think they're three victories away. You've got the big city one, but then apart from that, it's just Fulham and Southampton. So their away form's not the best, but then Spurs are sitting on 60 feet at home. So again, both teams are so up and down. It's hard to pick a winner in this game. I wouldn't fault either of you for going for Spurs or United. Come on, Lewis, what about you? Firmly sitting on the fence. So what I have gone is, I think it will be...

I think it will be a tasty game. Plenty of fouls. So I've gone for Kulewski and Dalot to commit a foul in each half. Each, they're top foulers for both of their teams at the moment. And both teams to score, sitting at 10.52 to 1.

Happy seal on, thanks, mate. Kulosevski has played in every single game for Tottenham so far this season. He's played 39 games, I read, somewhere. So it would be amazing if he's got the energy to get close to someone to foul them. But if he does, Lewis, then you will have a week to not only celebrate, but to practice the pronunciation of his name. Anyway, thanks, Lewis. Good to see you, mate. Remember, odds are correct at time of recording. Please gamble responsibly.

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Wasn't a great week for another one of our big clubs. Manchester City, they lost in the Champions League to Real Madrid. 3-2, the first leg of their knockout game. Second leg in the Bernabeu next week. Everything stacked against them. They are home to Newcastle this weekend. Feels a little bit like the start...

Ah, okay. Feels like the start of a 14-game Champions League shootout for these two, really. That fourth place is up for grabs at the moment. City in there, Newcastle in there, Chelsea in there, Bournemouth may be in there as well. Norscombe Forest are in there. You laughed.

I want to say something very quickly about City. A lot of chat again about the way they threw away, in inverted commas, the game against Madrid, 2-1 up with only a couple of minutes to go, lost it 3-2. But it's not about that. That has happened several times this season. To me, Chris, it's not about that. The fact is that Real were just better than them. Madrid had 20 shots on goal in that game and it was at the Etihad. If you're going to concede that number of shots

on your goal at home, the chances are you will lose. City just keep getting outplayed by teams. It's really, really fascinating to watch and they don't control games anymore. And this one against Newcastle will be another huge challenge for them. Newcastle on form, of course.

So every game Manchester City play now, do you think they're going to keep a clean sheet? No, not with Ederson in goal for sure. He had a decent game on Tuesday, but still managed to contribute to the winning goal.

Not so sure he had a decent game. Sold the pies, but I'm not sure Ortega is an upgrade. I think he's been decidedly shaky. So I just... Look, I mean, my view on City is...

I wasn't surprised they were outplayed, a little bit like you. With the greatest respect to De Bruyne and Bernardo Silva, who have been unbelievable players, had great careers, they just cannot cover the ground anymore. They are not dynamic. So when Manchester City got outplayed in the middle of the park, that wasn't any great surprise. It was interesting that Madrid brought on Modric,

right at the end of the game. I think he's 40-odd now, isn't he? And Manchester City had their sort of ageing midfield starting the game. Actually, I thought John Stones did all right in that defensive midfield position, showed what an intelligent player he is. But still, he's not one who can cover the ground. And that's the issue. And Pep, I think, has had this

this loyalty towards players where I think that even he would admit, and we saw the, can we call them panic signings in January or signings where an admission that the, you know, he got it wrong. I think bringing players in, I would suggest was one where Pep's holding his hand up and saying, well, you know, we should have, should have added in the summer. But I think that this will continually happen.

continuously be an issue while Pep, if he plays De Bruyne and Bernardo Silva together in that central midfield area. Yeah, it's definitely lacking legs in there for sure. Now, I want to ask you about something slightly tangential relating to Newcastle. Probably remember a few weeks ago in a game against Aston Villa, there was a pretty

almighty rumble in the tunnel at half time I think during that game the FA report into that into that dust up has now been released lots of pushing and shoving people falling over people pointing at each other people swearing at each other all the usual bits and pieces that sometimes happen when what do you think they're going to do you rocked up

Well, indeed, when temperatures rise. But the one thing that jumped out at me was that apparently Aston Villa, because Jason Tindall, Eddie Howe's number two at Newcastle, was sent off. So he couldn't be in the dugout for the second half. Apparently appeared in the players' tunnel towards the end of the game, allegedly to goad Villa staff again. He was wearing a Wham sweatshirt. When I say Wham, when I say Wham...

I don't mean wham, bam, thank you, ma'am. I mean wham, as in the 1980s pop duo, George Michael, Andrew Ridgely, for our younger listeners who may not be aware. Pretty out there piece of clothing to wear at a football stadium. Middle-aged man, of course, Tyndall. It did make me laugh. Wow, that's slightly ageist. It made me laugh, he was younger than me, made me laugh that Tyndall

that Villa seemed to have got worked up about this. Forget the 3-0 defeat, just get wound up about the fact that Jason Tindall's wearing a Wham sweatshirt. But it did make me think, Chris, that back in the day, you must have got yourself, knowing how you dress these days, you must have been sitting there in your shacket. There must have been some pretty wild wardrobe choices going on back in the day.

Well, my wife, Sam, dresses me. Always did, even when you had money. I would say an off-the-wall moment was where I once put on Sam's pink swimming costume for a laugh. That would be that. I don't want to know what happens in the bedroom. That would.

That would have been an odd look in the tunnel, wouldn't it? It would have been a grave look. Shira's eyes would have popped out of his head. George Weir once bought me one of those. He once bought me for my birthday. The president of Liberia bought me a basketball track suit. Oh, nice. Bling, bit of bling. Which, yeah, which sort of didn't suit the agricultural type of person like me. Who said?

Yeah. A hoofer from Norfolk. How many people can say that? Did he? Well, indeed. George Way has never bought me a birthday present. Did you wear it? Yeah, I did wear it. I wouldn't say I carried it off. Photographic evidence, do you still have it?

I think I only wore it a couple of times because I was sort of a little bit aware that it didn't suit me. So what about yourself? Hang on, have you still got it? I will try and find it. Let's have it. I will try and find it. I think I have because we are hoarders. We are hoarders. Of course, everyone who lives in the country never throws anything away.

Yeah, I'll find it, I think. Fabulous. And I'll wear it on the next pod if I can find it. Absolutely fabulous. Yeah, I have had my moments, obviously. Some people may say that I still do. I think possibly the worst purchase yet, two things. I once bought a jacket from a quite fashionable clothes shop not far from where I live. It was like a bomber jacket. C&A? It had so many zips on the front.

It has so many zips on the foot. I had to give it a bit of the old Houdini to get in and out of it. It clearly really was the most preposterous piece of clothing. But the worst one I bought, I remember back in the day, it must be a long time ago because I was successful, had a small pay rise from the Daily Mail. This is like 15 years ago or something. Decided to celebrate by going out and buying some shoes.

And I bought, we were on a weekend break in York, Vicky and I, and we went into a reasonably fashionable boutique and I bought myself a pair of shoes. They were kind of, if I say they were slip-on, but they were also distressed. If I say distressed, do you know what I mean? Kind of made to look old, you know, rough and ready. But they also had no laces, but holes for laces.

That was the look. So slip-on shoes, distressed, holes for laces, but no laces. How much did they cost? How much did they cost? They weren't cheap. Anyway, I wore them at a Manchester City game that weekend.

And the head of communications, a dear friend of mine still to this day, a lady called Vicky Kloss, doesn't work there anymore, took one look at me and said, Leda, what on earth are you wearing? Those shoes look like they've been taken off the feet of a dead miner. Oh, my God.

And when she said mine, I didn't mean a child. It's been somebody who worked down at Pitt. Well, sadly, I can't come onto this podcast wearing that jacket or those shoes. I haven't got them anymore, but I do want to see you next time out dressed as Jay-Z. Anyway, there we go. Um,

I think it's probably about time that we invited some observations for the pod. So we will, um, let's, uh, hear your views, please on the Merseyside Derby goal or no goal. Uh, should it stood, should it not have stood Michael Oliver? Should also fans be sending him letters of thank you. Thank you. And congrats, uh,

congratulations and all this talk about players injuries is it a modern thing is it because they're playing too much football or is it all in their minds

And you can let us know at the socials. You can find us on X, Ladyman and Sutton, of course. You know how that goes. Silly name and famous name. You can also go to male sports social accounts on Instagram and TikTok, et cetera, and leave your observations there. But also, please remember, if you listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts,

there is a spot there. Also, to let us know your views on the show, we can hit the follow button while you're there and leave us a rating, please. Ian, what about, let us know unusual clothes which people have worn, unusual outfits. I'm not sure we're going to beat your track suit, but you never know.

So we have had a few comments here on Spotify. Just running my eye down them. We talked a lot about Arne Slott's decision to rest players at Plymouth. Fazza says on Spotify, Slott's absolutely spot on playing a weakened team. The Reds could be nine points clear on Wednesday. Won't leave sleep over this. Nine points became seven points.

as we know. Steve says, so Brentford, who had games against Man City and Liverpool coming up in the next seven days, were disrespectful against Plymouth in the last round. Well, it was perfectly fine for Liverpool to do it this time round. No double standards there at all. And Stu, talking about the fact there was no VAR in the FA Cup at the weekend, says we don't need

VAR we need automatic automated offside like they use in Europe and goal line technology that's all we need Ladyman the Newcastle shot equaliser at Birmingham was a foot over the line come on we could all see that it was yeah

Get some new glasses. Get some new glasses. Okay, Spurs play Man United at home on Sunday, Chris. I think I made a note earlier. I think that is 13th versus 14th in the Premier League. Who would have seen that coming? One thing I want to pick out of this, Spurs might have some players...

Coming back, they are expected to have some plays back on the training field. Vicario, Madison, Adogge, Werner, Odeberg, Johnson. Not sure how many of those will make it in time for the game. Chris, very quickly, one line answer. What does a successful Spurs season look like now, from now to the end?

A successful Spurs season winning the Europa League. Okay, yeah, fair enough. At Manchester United meanwhile, story broken by Mike Keegan, our chief sports reporter on Mail Online this week, we've learnt that Jim Ratcliffe's Ineos are about to make another 100 staff redundant at Old Trafford. What's

We know the way that Ratcliffe likes to do his business. He's been at United now for about a year. Not a lot of emotion attached to it. Not a lot of sentiment. It's all done very coldly and in a calculated way. I think the only way, Chris, that Manchester United get eyes off some of the things that Ratcliffe does is by winning games consistently. Do you see... Because that changes everything at a football club. If the results are right...

Supporters will ignore all the rest, rightly or wrongly. Do you see any sign yet of that happening at Manchester United? Consistency of performance? No. Not at all? Not at all. Well, who does? Tell you what, about Jim Ratcliffe and Ineos, I mean, nobody...

I think they are becoming more and more unpopular by the week, aren't they? I think that's fair. When they first went in, they were going to be the great saviours of the club and move the club forward. I mean, they're...

I mean, I don't know whether they'll ever be as unpopular as the Glazers, but really nobody could have foreseen the circumstances, how they've ended up like they are with all the, you know, with every job which is being cut at the club. You know, that wouldn't go down well. And, you know, the appointment of Amarim, that hasn't really worked just yet. And of course he needs time. I think we both feel that.

But I think we expected when Ineos took over there to be a short, sharp shock and Manchester United to burst and start making progress. But they've been in regression really since Ineos took over. Yeah, they have. Chris Wheeler, our Manchester United reporter, has written in the week that some United players are starting to lose faith in Ruben Amirim's system, particularly his...

well, determined, ongoing determination to play with three at the back. I have to say this does feel like a game in which absolutely anything could happen. I fancy Spurs to win it. So the chances are that they probably won't. In the championship,

there's been a little bit of, well, another interesting week in the championship. We said it on Monday, didn't we? That one, when we talk about FA Cup and team selections, et cetera, I pointed out that one of the reasons that championship teams find it so hard in the FA Cup is that they've always got,

midweek fixtures that come after the FA Cup dates. That's the way it was this time round. But teams like Leeds, Daniel Farker, they kind of, you know, they have been vindicated. So Leeds made 10 changes, I think, when they lost at home to Millwall in the Cup. But then they go straight into a game away at Watford in the Championship League.

And they win 4-0. It does just show that that is why they do it. But I want to talk briefly about John Eustace, who, as we sit here this morning talking, is still, I think, manager of Blackburn Rovers. Doesn't feel as though he will be for long. Derby County want him to replace Paul Warne.

Eustace has asked to leave. Blackburn have issued a statement critical of him, saying they're disappointed with the timing. They've just backed him a little bit in the January window. Simon Jordan, one of my fellow columnists in male sport, and also, of course, a...

a much respected radio analyst for Talk Sport, has really got into John Eustace. I won't read out everything he said, but he did say, my gut feeling is that Eustace will reap the whirlwind of this. He'll get his comeuppance at Derby somewhere down the line. You can't behave this way. Everyone gets served up in the end. Everyone gets what is coming their way. I don't agree with him, and I'll tell you why in a minute, but I'd be interested to hear what you think, Chris.

manager walking out on a good job to take another decent job. This is a guy who has worked wonders with the bare minimum, with a thin squad, and they're in a playoff position. So I think John Eustace is quite within his rights to want to go and talk to Derby County if he feels he hasn't been backed enough.

by the club hierarchy, and he hasn't been. And he's made that clear. The messages have been coming out on a weekly basis from John Eustace. I need help. And he hasn't had the help and the backing. And Blackburn Rovers fans, in fairness, see what's happening. They all see what's happening, and it's sad. It's quite dramatic, Ian, and, you know, you –

You've been in this game for a long, long time. Why would a manager leave a team in the playoffs to go to a team in the relegation zone? It must be because of something pretty serious. There's a couple of wider issues at play here as well. The fact is there was a release clause, there is a release clause in John Eustace's contract at Blackburn.

Blackburn don't want people to trigger that and shouldn't be in there. That's the first thing. But the second thing is, and I will go back to something else that Simon Jordan said when he said, I think there is a malaise that has developed among all English managers over the years. They are becoming institutionalized into a certain way of thinking. He's talking about the readiness with which they move on. Well, I will say that one of the reasons for that is the way that our game treats its managers. So the lifespan, the lifespan,

in terms of how long someone stays in the job in the Championship, has halved in the last 10 years. I think it sits at less than two years these days. And it's only heading in one direction. Same in the Premier League. And look at John Eustace's experience at Birmingham. He's at Birmingham doing a decent job with a modest group of players. Sixth place, I think they were in the Championship.

And he's sacked because Birmingham wants to replace him with Wayne Rooney. That's what happened. We know what happened to Rooney. We know what subsequently happened to Birmingham. They got relegated. Okay. So when managers exist in an environment such as that,

it's absolutely ridiculous to think that that won't affect the way that they look at their life, their employment prospects and their... and it must impact on their take on loyalty and things like that because they realise pretty quickly that there is none in football. It doesn't work that way. When you're not wanted, for whatever reason, you're gone. And how on earth can we expect them not to...

to look at things that way when they get a choice to move, when their instinct says to them, I want to go and take that job, when their instinct is saying, that's the right job for me. And the only thing that's pulling them back is this outdated concept of loyalty. And football has already shown someone like John Eustace that loyalty is just a word, just a word.

doesn't exist. Okay, Arsenal showed a bit to Mikel Arteta. Daniel Levy at the moment appears to be showing a little bit to Ange Prostacoglu. Well, that's probably a stretch. Ange has only been there 18 months. But it doesn't happen often. When clubs don't want you, they get rid of you. So I don't really, I don't understand how we can expect managers to live in this bubble, this ideological bubble, whereby the right thing to do

counts for anything because in football Chris I don't think it does so if John Eustace heads off to Birmingham sorry heads off to Derby from Blackburn gets his way which I think he will then I for one don't particularly blame him okay everybody that's another interesting topic let us know what you think of that one as well am I being a little bit cynical with my view of the football world or are managers right to do

what is right for them and their families rather than think about the wider issues in terms of their commitment responsibility to the people who employ them okay thank you everybody that's um that's us um some week some week of football again champions league has been absorbing the premier league has been absorbing all kinds of stuff going on down in the championship as well chris what are you up to this weekend my friend you're going to city city newcastle

Manchester City Newcastle big game Ian they need the big they need the big pundits there oh of course do the big pundits there and when they can't get them they know that you will always be available and you'll be available for us again on Monday thankfully because we couldn't be without you thanks for listening everybody we'll see you then